How Countries Were INVENTED

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A video about countries, maps and borders; where they came from and where they might be going in the future.
* Chapters*
0:00 Countries! Maps! Borders!
02:09 1. What is a Country?
09:27 2. The Slow Growth of the State
15:23 Surfshark VPN Spot
16:59 3. The Invention of Nations
24:52 4. A World Without Countries?
Some Copy about the Video for the KZbin Algorithm
In this month's video, we're exploring the origins of countries. What is a country? What was the first country? And how did the particular model of country which dominates in the present day, the nation-state, come to be so widely accepted as the organising principle for human politics and governance?
We're going to be taking a deep dive into the scholarship on states, nations and nationalism from the earliest states in Mesopotamia and Xin Dynasty China, through the emergence of the imagined community of the nation following the French Revolution and the American War of Independence during the 19th century and into the present day.
Support the channel on Patreon at / tomnicholas
If you've enjoyed this video and would like to see more including my What The Theory? series in which I provide some snappy introductions to key theories in the humanities as well as video essays and more then do consider subscribing.
Thanks for watching!
Twitter: / tom_nicholas
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Patreon: / tomnicholas
Website: www.tomnicholas.com
#countries #maps #borders

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Thanks for watching! If you've liked this, I'd love it if you'd check out my Patreon at patreon.com/tomnicholas

[@lostintime519]

Good video. To someone who is aware of the ancient history - this is obvious. It can be frustrating to live among people who do not take in consideration the complexity of these issues. However, what would be your thoughts about imperialism? It looks like the western countries are imposing their views & customs on others, through this new globalization- thing which you've mentioned at the end. It doesn't seem to be given that nationstates will disappear anytime soon. As someone who had chosen to change a country, i am very often reminded that i am a mere guest. Funny how the Kazakhs are claiming Scythians to themselves.

[@uydagcusdgfughfgsfggsifg753]

Good shit, making unique videos is hard af but you keep doing it like it’s nothing. Keep killing it

[@gabfortin1976]

Go vegan 3 days a week.

[@lubu2960]

The revenue of a company isn't the GDP of a country, is it?

[@lostintime519]

@Max შემიწყალე You are free to be ignorant as you are but there were many tribes and people in Japan, why do you think they usually fought wars with each other? Also, japanese came from the main land into what is now Japan, not once, but with waves. Japan was inhibited by Ainu and other indigenous people. languages are created and maintened by the ruling elite, that sought to centralize and so, countries moved to become nation-states. What you call "Japanese" (language, norms, culture, etc) is not "natural" but is created. I am sure there are different dialects still existing but the education systems typically standardize one version of japanese. Same in all other countries.

[@Marcin_Pawlik]

A Brit named Tom can't even film on a beach without being compared to another Brit named Tom. Truly, we live in a nation-state.

[@d.w.stratton4078]

Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

[@hayaokakizaki4463]

@@kaizokujimbei143 OH! THERE! HE SAID IT! DID YOU HEAR THAT?! HE CALLED ME A PEASANT! I TOLD YOU IT WAS ABOUT CLASS!

[@southwestsaxon]

Um bit racist...

[@pennycheshire5608]

There are too many Toms on that island for this to not have been inevitable. I’d argue that KZbin is actually low on British Toms given how many Brits are on this website. You’d expect there to be more Toms, really.

[@aishwariyasweety2433]

@@hayaokakizaki4463 DiD YoU SEe Him RePReSSiNg me?

[@patrocluster1364]

Tom Nicholas and Tom Scott have reached a singularity

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Haha. Tom Scott probably would have actually had a speedboat.

[@dominictemple]

Beat me to it.

[@ghastlyghandi4301]

I was just gonna post a comment like that, but you beat me to it good sir.

[@thedalekditto15]

Truth. I watch both, but today while binging some Tom Scott I was only given Tom Scott, and this vid in suggested.

[@jjorjj]

tom sicholas

[@TheGoblinoid]

Free trade for the rich, nationalism for the poor. Accurate.

[@collydub1987]

@@kaizokujimbei143 100%

[@ruthcooke9561]

very succinct. Duly nicked!

[@crazydinosaur8945]

nationalism is politics for "basic" people

[@appleslover]

Africa as a case study is a perfect example for this discussion. Because African borders were not drawn based on religion, ethnicity, language etc.and not even by Africans themselves so It's hard for Africans to feel the sense of national identity like English or Irish people do. But a poll found that there's was a huge increase in identification with the country as a whole in all African countries After major sports events, especially FİFA world cup.

[@ElectricChaplain]

Another demonstration that sports is a form of non-violent war

[@appleslover]

@@ElectricChaplain say that again to honduras and el Salvador...

[@ElectricChaplain]

@@appleslover jajaja thanks for reminding me!

[@ElectricChaplain]

@@appleslover I looked it up and it turns out that the story was more complicated than a football match, it looks like there was a precedent of communal violence between the two countries and the soccer game had nada pero nada to do with the war. Thanks for reminding me though

[@appleslover]

@@ElectricChaplain as all things of course, nothing comes out of thin air

[@themroc8231]

5:02 as a french and argentinian double national who has spent many holidays in my teenage years in Madagascar when my mother used work for a UN agency over there this felt oddly personal.

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Hope you got something out of it!

[@FaiaHalo]

Hey!! Hola, yo también soy de Argentina. Y pasé un tiempo en Madagascar como maestra para una organización atea que se encarga de darle educación secundaria y universitaria a las personas jovenes de allá. Qué hermoso ver estas coincidencias jajaja Excepto por la parte francesa. Ojalá supiera hablar Francés, me parece un idioma muy bonito. Un gran saludo y te deseo mucha salud y alegría!

[@cacapichi8564]

I am from Chile, we are on the verge of becoming a plurinational state over here. Countries become even more weird when states are plurinational. It’s like a recognition that we are a collection of nations that became a country due to accidents of history (I.e. war, conquest, colonialism, migrations, random bureucratic decisions). And that our different nations now share a state even if we were even at war before (and we still kind of are because of the legacies of colonialism and white supremacy ). It’s like a legal recognition and acceptance by the state of how random its existence is.

[@coomservative]

why mention “white supremacy” as opposed to all the other wicked ideologies involved, why not use more general “racism” instead?

[@godfather7339]

Same thing with India, could explain why so many states have thier own T orgs.

[@govindnair3064]

@@coomservative...Because white supremacy was the explicit ideology used in South America to create division between the Natives and the descendents of settlers, and that referring to general "racism" is vague at best and downright irrelevant at worst.

[@hitchikerspie]

Switzerland has this vibe as well from a more natural origin, Belgium’s arrived in a more constructed fashion by other nations around it

[@lubu2960]

The other nations are the mapuche? So like Bolivia?

[@fotnite_]

Strange how people often assume that the way things are right now is how they always have been. Even things we view as fundamental like the nation-state is only a modern invention; I wonder how long until the internet is treated similarly

[@cv4809]

Nobody assumes that. You are assuming what people assume

[@fotnite_]

@@cv4809 There are angry right-wingers commenting about how the Nation-State has always existed on this very video, so no

[@Liliquan]

@@cv4809 “Nobody assumes that” You literally just assumed what everybody was assuming. Your comment has to be the most purest form of hypocrisy I’ve ever witnessed.

[@nitothefunkybunch6938]

It will be strange for people in the future studying historical figures who worked on severely limited information. Even today we assume intent for figures to explain actions that are better explained by lack of knowledge (good example being the colonial spanish blamed for diseases before they even knew how disease worked). I can only imagine access to knowledge being taken more for granted in the future

[@HelloFutureMe]

This was a really fascinating look! Thanks for the work you do.

[@appleslover]

This video is very inaccurate and too biased, because we all know that nations' and states' existence is based on 4 elements

[@johannageisel5390]

Whoa, you here!? Cool.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@appleslover But everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked!

[@appleslover]

@@johannageisel5390 actually, I was under the effect of raava-wokeism brainwashing, because we all know that there once was four nations living together in harmony :fire, fire, fire, fire; but everything changed when the avatar attacked. /S

[@johannageisel5390]

@@appleslover :-O

[@newsjunkie7135]

Funny that you released this on the "national" holiday of Quebec.

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Oh really? I hadn't realised that!

[@jeandanielodonnncada]

Hey now, no need for quotation marks, we are a nation! Just not a state... Except of course Scotland and Québec do have states, sorta. Just not sovereign ones?

[@neonsashimidream1075]

@@jeandanielodonnncada The politeness of your comment pointing out the error of the original comment (without taking offense) fully supports the correction you're making. It also makes me wish I lived in Québec...

[@j.malo-roper4050]

@@neonsashimidream1075 "It also makes me wish I lived in Québec" is not a sentiment I hear very much as a Québécoise living in Western Canada. You have no idea how refreshing it is to hear that.

[@PyroNexus22]

I'm a Lezgi (yes, I know, you've never heard of us), it's a Dagestani ethnicity, but I was born in northern 'Azerbaijan', which is also our historical homeland, but I grew up in Russia with a Russian citizenship. Every time I introduce myself to people, I can't say "I'm Russian" because they assume Russian ethnicity, I can't say Azerbaijani for the same reason, and I can't say Dagestani, because they assume I'm from what's known as the Republic of Dagestan, which is a Russian province, but no, I've never really been there for a substantial amount of time. So yeah, people who look at the world exclusively in terms of nationalities piss me off. And if you wonder what do I say when people ask me where I'm from, I reply with: "it's complicated".

[@wnnr3294]

Pardon my ignorance but why can't you just say you're Russian? They can't really presume a Russian ethnicity bc there's a ton of different ethnic groups in Russia, can they?

[@adamthetired9319]

@@wnnr3294, because "Russian" is an ethnicity. Primarily based on Slavic tribes mixed with Balts and Finno-Ugric folks. Just because we, people of the Caucasus, are citizens of Russia, doesn't mean that we are Russians. Neither are Southern Asians living in Britain British. And neither are Arabs/Northern Africans living in France French. We don't identify as Russians, Russians don't identify us as Russians. The Arabs in France don't identify as French, and the French don't identify them as French. Etc-etc... Though, in Russia we have the word "rossiyane" which means citizens of Russia, regardless of their ethnicity. However, the word "russkie" meaning "Russians" is only used in regard to the ethnicity of Russians. And if you say that you are Russian, people have the right to assume that you mean the ethnicity of Russians, who are the absolute majority in the country and are the face of it. Like we assume that when we say French, we mean a European person, primarily of Celtic, Germanic and Italic descent.

[@saja201024]

I can totally agree with you. I'm an Azerbaijani with regards to my ethnic roots, but culturally I'm more of a Russian/European/westerner, since I was born and grew up in Russia. Sometimes I think that I'm a European rather than a member of any national identity. Сколь бегло ты бы не знал русский, для россиян (и русских тем более), ты никогда своим не будешь - внешность для них все решает. Для азербайджанцев ты своим не станешь тоже, так как культурно ты слишком другой (Russ lehçesi olsada olmasada) Whereas it is my European Identity (speaking English and German) that keeps me going. On top of that, I'm a Political Science student and I toy a lot with constructivist theories of nationhood. I'm convinced that thinking in nation-state terms has more cons than pros. P. S. Man, I'm so excited to see I'm not the only one struggling with all of this. A fellow stranger on the internet just happened to make me reflect once again on my identity. I wish you the best and thank you so much for taking your time to write the comment.

[@PyroNexus22]

@@wnnr3294 They can't, but they do. Because most people have no idea that Russia has a ton of different ethnic groups. You would be amazed how ignorant the majority of people are. Some people don't even know where the Caucasus is or what it is. But at this point I don't even want to identify as a Russian. As a kid I desperately tried to fit in, but since then I've gained cultural consciousness. All I care about is independence for my people and preservation of our culture. Russia can burn in hell.

[@PyroNexus22]

@@adamthetired9319 brother, which ethnicity are you?

[@devinfaux6987]

Uh-oh, Tom's gonna get himself cancelled for bad French impressions again!

[@Tom_Nicholas]

We’re okay so far!

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

We all know France doesn't exist anyway!

[@marjetacedilnik8622]

@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat France exists, but only because of Tinkerbell effect. (Tinkerbell effect means that something exists only because enough people believe in it. If enough people stopped believing in Tinkerbell, she would disappear) When you start thinking about it almost everything in the society has Tinkerbell effect.

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

It was so bad I thought it was a German impression

[@couchingzone2615]

I'm asking myself, why people came to England, saw it and said: "Hey, it's rainy and dull. What a great place, let's stay here"

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Haha, I was very lucky to get a day with no rain to film on. The next day it chucked it down...

[@couchingzone2615]

@@Tom_Nicholas The worst sunstroke I ever had I've got in Ireland and I had a terrible sunburn in Brighton. So I know the rain thing is a cliche, but a rather funny one.

[@FosukeLordOfError]

This comment has some hitchhikers guide to the galaxy vibes

[@couchingzone2615]

@@FosukeLordOfError You're a very hoopy frood that knows where his towel is.

[@appleslover]

One word: Siberia

[@Itharl]

Started out thinking this was going to be a standard history lesson video, but was pleasantly surprised by how well it threaded a bunch of different ideas and concepts together (arguably something that a good history lesson should do anyway, but I guess I'm just used to a boring recitation of facts). Really enjoyed this and learned a lot!

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Thank you, I'm really glad you found it interesting!

[@johannageisel5390]

@@Tom_Nicholas I also thought, when you were talking about the Westphalian Peace, that I wish we had been told history more like this. That we didn't only learn what happened, but what it actually _means_ for our modern life.

[@mnazaal]

Really hit home hard when u mentioned how its harder to cross borders if youre from a third-world country, for e.g. you got to do the following even if youre travelling for a few days/weeks as a tourist: list things ranging from all children our parents ever had, their birthdates, whether they have their own children, or if we travelled anywhere in the past X years, who did I travel with, and all of their personal information, and also, book hotels (airbnb doesnt count) and buy tickets BEFORE you apply for the visa (tough luck if the visa is denied). Once I had an invitation to visit a friend in a Schengen country and stay at their place, and this friend had to let the police know about this etc. Sucks that many people go through this just because of where they were born

[@fighterpilot9981]

Lol, sorry European countries don’t just let anyone in to anything at all.

[@JadeEyeland]

as a canadian i had to do this going into the usa

[@stevenredpath9332]

@@fighterpilot9981 not strictly true as I bet everyone who flies into Europe for the conference at Davos is green lighted regardless of their initial starting country.

[@fighterpilot9981]

@@stevenredpath9332 Travel from approved countries is not a good analogy.

[@stevenredpath9332]

@@fighterpilot9981 strange how approved countries have massively wealthy people and powerful governments. And that the meeting at Davos only caters to such entities.

[@l4ndst4nder]

It blew my mind when I learned in school that Rome and Athens were city-states and not capitals in ancient times. But I had no idea that well defined nation states were relatively recent! Definitely helps to explain areas like Alsace in France.

[@MrZaricnak]

"Few people are willing to lay down their lives for the tax office" is probably my new favourite sociological theorem :D.

[@WindowsXP_logon_sound_25yrsago]

Yeah me too. It has always been a dream of mine to die bravely fighting for the IRS (US tax office). Or the patent office. A more noble personal sacrifice one can hardly conceive of. For the taxes and patents, stalwart friends!!

[@aniksamiurrahman6365]

13:48 "Countries were constantly trying to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries." I'm wondering if in 400 years anything changed at all.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Countries got a little less obvious about it. Certainly didn't stop but subtlety was introduced.

[@aniksamiurrahman6365]

@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat Yeah, it's less obvious now, it's happening to "other people" in Asia, Africa or South America after all. Looking from the receiving end in Asia, it's not at all subtle and all too obvious.

[@Haedox]

Recently binged all your work. Keep it up. Loved this one!

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Thanks! I'm really glad you've liked some of my stuff!

[@matthewkrumlauf9990]

It is always good to remember that nation states only exist because of an agreed upon "Delusion". It really helps when writing fiction to think of "governing bodies" in massively different forms.

[@jojobabok9373]

"Delusion" is a caricaturized misframing of the nationalist argument. A nation is a shared identity that allows a people to competitively navigate to the top of the world hierarchy. Because the units at the top get to dictate terms to the ones at the bottom. As it should be. That's how things get done. Even within your own body.

[@grischa762]

@@jojobabok9373 "That's how things get done. Even within your own body." Only if you have cancer. A healthy human body is a symbiosis not a hierarchy. We need to understand that in the end we all live on the same planet and thus need to cooperate to solve global issues. Global warming and our inability to solve it is in large part due to national egoism. So your analogy with the human body is pretty fitting ....just not the way you think it is. .

[@athertawfik6942]

Characterizing it as delusion reminds me when I'm asked about my religious beliefs especially being from Egypt or the MENA religion you can't be publicly agnostic or atheist except between your friends and I have to explain that I believe in religion I just don't believe in 'organized' religion, I just have a natural aversion to anything that is institutionalized. I like to imagine the days before the industrial revolution where if you wanted to to travel somewhere you just went there, whether on your feet or just hitchhiked with a trading caravan. Ibn Battuta or Marco Polo never had to get visa or prepare a ton of paperwork and money to go somewhere. Lucky bastards lol

[@grischa762]

@@athertawfik6942 exactly. Nationalism is a form of religion. You feel comradery and being paart of something bigger than yourself. You also project a lot of things onto it and there is a constant battle about who is part of it and who is not, what makes up the country/religion, what are the "correct" traditions and so on. Oh and you stongly believe in something other humans made up who lived several hundret years ago . Oh my goddess there are so many similarities.

[@noahboone524]

Thank god. I kept looking for info on this subject and searching “birth of a nation” kept yielding some pretty troubling results.

[@hughcaldwell1034]

Right? The miracle of nation-birth is a grizzly affair...

[@clawsoon]

"Imagined Communities" by Benedict Anderson is the classic book on the topic, and I was happy to see it referenced extensively in the video.

[@WindowsXP_logon_sound_25yrsago]

Uh oh 😂....don't go down that path fren... It's not great...

[@drrodopszin]

Once in the future kids will learn about "history class induced war hysteria". You go into your history class, you know nothing of your neighboring countries and you end up hating all of them for things their kings did to your kings.

[@tkdyo]

I often think about how unfair it is that so much of our lives is determined by these imaginary lines if you are poor. Not just at the national level, but even at the school district level. If you're on one side of a line, you get to go to the nice school with the great teachers and have a much higher chance of success. On the other side, you go to the crummy school where you have to get lucky, naturally smart, or abnormally hard working to have the same chance at success. Thanks for putting it in terms that resonate with what I've been thinking at the end. They are lines put down by the elite that don't really apply to them.

[@QueZPow]

Intro has very strong Tom Scott vibes. Good vid!

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Haha, was fully expecting these comments from the moment I thought "I might film this on a beach..."

[@ykcirodd]

The well-documented Tom Scott phenomenon, where having an introduction filmed on-location and talking to the camera is instantly associated with him.

[@jameswheaton379]

Only thing it's missing is a red shirt

[@gh0s1wav]

One of my friends has been all over the world and he told me about a guy he met in the middle east. He asked the guy what nation he was apart of and the guy told him that the question had never occurred to him. He said that people there didn't really identify with a nation/national identity and would go their whole lives without doing so. At the time that blew my mind but this video definitely provides some clarity.

[@katszulga1888]

I loved the foreshadowing of the conclusion by the visible Nike swoosh on both the English and French football shirts.

[@justinadams7824]

a man with the ocean behind him is like 90% of the start of ever bbc documentary ever lol. Loved the video!!!

[@xavibun]

I don't have any attachment to nationality, I just want to do what's best for people around me and beyond.

[@MichelleHell]

I've been watching some Russell Means interviews. It's interesting his perspective on what it means to be a free person on his indigenous land. It's the freedom to wander and graze the land, which had become impossible for Native Americans because the land was colonized and turned into a monied society with extreme inequalities.

[@Salaci]

It's the same that has happened to my grandfather. He's a native in an island in the Philippines, his family has lived and farmed there for generations until "authorities" came with a piece of paper declaring that the land is now theirs. They were forced to move and find their own way to live without even any assistance or anything. I have found many stories like this, it has happened before and will keep happening. It's just the law of "power" and human nature.

[@ericbateman1649]

I want a world with no borders, it's sad that this is not possible anytime soon

[@hez987654321]

@Tom Nicholas When you said "Weber does not mean that all states are constantly engaged in physical violence, but that the state is defined by its ability to settle disputes through arresting, imprisoning and otherwise inflicting violence on people without having to answer to a higher body." Pretty much every state is constantly engaged in inflicting violence in the forms you listed afterwards.

[@kuschelirmel]

Borders are an imagined construct to keep everyone literally and figuratively "in their place". For me, the realization of how dumb this whole concept is hit hardest at the start of Covid last year, when all over Europe borders closed that had never been much more than a line on a map. I live in Germany, next to the French border. It is completely normal to cross the Rhine for groceries or a restaurant visit or to cross the border on foot where it "devides" the northern Vosges from the Palatinate forest. And suddenly, you couldn't. You could enjoy the view when standing on the edge of the Black Forest, where on a clear day France looks like you could jump over, but you knew you were not allowed to go there unless you had an exceptional reason to do so (same for the French the other way round of course). These reasons included caring for the elderly and going for work (with the addition of the border crossing now taking 2 hours instead of 2 minutes due to the border controls) and to a large extent what you were allowed or not allowed to do was super fuzzy and complicated. For example (as far as I remember) shared child custody of a couple one living on each side of the Rhine I think was fine, but not for the kid to see the grandparents or attend sports practice,.... So if you take away Europe / Schengen (though to be clear this has always been a border with little to know border control even before Schengen) then who exactly decides what you are allowed to do? Sure, the grandparents and the sports practice were forbidden mostly due to the pandemic in that case, but what if the reason for closing the border was something else?

[@maikotter9945]

Beitrag des Sonntages, 7. Mai 2023 Kantate (Westkirchen) Moin aus dem Lauenburgischen [/Elbe]! Der "2+4 Vertrag" schreibt die Außengrenzen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland, für die Zeit seit dem 3. Oktober 1990 "auf ewig" fest! Erst die nächste Kontinentalverschiebung könnte, in dieser Hinischt, Änderungen mit sich bringen! Helmut Kohl und Erich Honecker haben gemeinsame Bekannte, welche im Saarland wohnten! Meine Mutter wuchs zunächst, GENAU östlich des "Eisernen Vorhanges" auf! Würden Sie den selig gesprochenen Kaiser Karl den Großen, heilig gesprochen sehen wollen? Weshalb besuchen Sie einen Gesamtstaat, welcher mit seinen Atombomben, Deutschland vollständig vernichten könnte?

[@rais1953]

We had a similar experience in Australia which has been a single federal state since 1 January 1901 but in order to control the spread of COVID all our state borders were closed. If we visited another state we couldn't be guaranteed a permit to re-enter our home state. It worked, particularly in my state where there was hardly any COVID until the borders re-opened, but it was difficult for people with family in another state or who lived near a state border.

[@quaka96]

"50% of the people did not speak french at all at the time of the french revolution" This shocked me. Can you recommend a book about this topic in general (also regarding other countries)? This seems super interesting!

[@yannickchayer1609]

i cant recommend a book per say. but if you look up "langue d'oil" and "langue d'oc" it should give you a good trail to start on

[@HeWhoLaugths]

I think The Discovery of France by Graham Robb covers that, although I'm not sure

[@eloymerlin7989]

as an anthropology student who has recently studied this topic of nation-states, i would like to say that you've done a very tood job explaining it. The authors and textes quoted are also incredibly well chosen.

[@Schoritzobandit]

I'd be interested to see a follow-on that focuses on city-states and how these differed from or were similar to the first nation-states. I think you could argue that Rome was essentially a city-state with an empire, rather than an actual nation-state, but I'm no expert there. Other examples, like the Greek or Italian city-states, would also be really interesting (as well as other possibilities from around the world, like Tenochtitlan or Baghdad)

[@georgew2014]

Extending the history to the modern city-state of Singapore would be interesting.

[@andrewgreenwood9068]

I think Rome is definitely the closest thing to a nation state that existed before the modern nation state.

[@nicholasmitchiner8630]

Maybe initially Rome was just a city state with an empire however sometime during the empire period , around when Caracalla gave everyone in the empire Roman citizenship, did it become a more of a state as a whole. For example by the late empire Rome wasn’t even the capital (Constantinople (now Istanbul) and Ravenna became the capitals of the East and West respectively) . Definitely as after the fall of the West empire and the East still saw themselves as Romans.

[@ac1455]

@@andrewgreenwood9068I’d vote for the Qin on this one.

[@HoovyTube]

The amazing building at 6:26 is the Hungarian Parliment Building, build in neo-gothic architectural style with baroque elements. During the soviet invasion a red star was on top of it, but was removed in 1990.

[@co2_os]

That building is the most magnificent building I saw irl so far.

[@hedgehog3180]

I feel like not mentioning Anarchism in this video is a bit of a crime. That would be the most obvious criticism of the nation state and the most relevant one.

[@Tom_Nicholas]

James C. Scott writes from what I’d broadly describe as an anarchist perspective (I’m not sure exactly how he describes himself).

[@breadpilled2587]

I kept waiting for it but it never came

[@southwestsaxon]

Nice pfp, Antifa forever, down with the Racist UK state 😎✊🏾

[@ColonelMidi]

yea same here. it might not seem very intuitive to talk about the realities and future of the modern state as and speculate about anarchist solutions, but the anarchist perspective on the state does help point out problems and contradictions worth pondering. I do feel that this video implies strong anarchist perspectives, but it would have been fun and interesting to see the underlying perceptions of power, exploitation and voluntariness more directly explored.

[@guidemeChrist]

Cringe

[@graemelaubach3106]

New Tom Nicholas always makes my day. Seriously the best creator on KZbin rn. Super duper interesting as always, thank you sir.

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Thank you Graeme, that's so kind! Really glad you liked it!

[@arachnofiend2859]

26:35 wait are you telling me that the megacorps have gotten so powerful the NATION-STATES are unionizing?

[@gingealex99999]

Them: in the modern world everyone can, should, will have a nationality as one has a gender Me: (Agender and anti-nationalist) ......... well fuck my drag

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Haha!

[@lucofparis4819]

As a french speaker, it always fascinated me that english speakers think of the french language as particularly gendered, when in practice this is only true for grammatical gender (which has little if any to do with the sex). What's more, english seems to be far more focused on this rather strange notion it has developed around gender, tying it with the sexes for some reason. In french however, the word for gender is _genre,_ which as its use in English may reveal, isn't attached to the sexes per se. A genre can be any class of beings or objects we might consider. The used-to-be common term 'human race' in english was typically less favored than the more common saying in french _genre humain_ for example, far more formal and neutral. Similarly, when your typical ID card refers to your _genre_ it is more interested in which sex category you belong to rather than asking for a highly subjective (and thus highly useless) notion of 'gender' in the english-speaking sense of the word. Case in point, the ID is there to provide objective, morphological means of identification, thus it selects dimorphic classification out of a pragmatic concern. Nonetheless, this tends to be the usual way in which french speakers identify and refer to people anyway, with the exception of current English-speaking ideologies and notions permeating in French-speaking discourse where it never really belonged if you ask me. 🤔

[@appleslover]

@@lucofparis4819 in German the word "girl" is literally masculine and nouns have arbitrary genders even when noun itself refers to a specific gender, like "girl", which was nightmarish when I started learning the language

[@voxomnes9537]

@@lucofparis4819 Can you clarify or re-phrase the last paragraph of your comment? I don't understand.

[@johannageisel5390]

@@appleslover Uhm, "girl" is neuter. DAS Mädchen. I think the reason here is that "-chen", the diminutive ending, always demands the neuter gender. You have also "das Eichhörnchen", "das Kaninchen" etc. The original form of "Mädchen" is "die Maid" - the young woman - which then gets made "smaller" by adding "-chen" to refer to a female child.

[@iriswaters]

There were about a half dozen times during your time line discussion here that I found myself noting that China actually did a number of these things long before the events you note shaping Europe. Particularly with regard to standardizing written language, and public schooling.

[@waart778]

Those examples were not even the first times those things happened in Europe but those where the ones that made it popular in the world

[@kushastea3961]

@@waart778 the western world you mean...

[@jiahaoxu6356]

Well actually, until the 19-20 century most people in China cannot read or write or attend school and there are dozens of dialects there. Not until Republic of China era they start to teach people reading and writing. But still, there are different dialects of Mandarine today with the current government pushing a unified Beijing dialect in the last 10-20 years.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

This channel is crazy underrated. You deserve WAY more subscribers.

[@oleg-avdeev]

That T-Shirt... Coat of England followed with a huge Nike logo? Perfection. Brilliant job, Tom!

[@SunnySunshine74]

Let me guess: This one cites “Imagined Communities” by Benedict Richard O'Gorman Anderson? Really want to read this book...

[@patrocluster1364]

Is your pfp anarcho-garfism

[@SunnySunshine74]

@@patrocluster1364 no mondays no masters

[@trashrabbit69]

Anarcho-Lasagnaism

[@johannageisel5390]

@@trashrabbit69 I cannot agree to lasagna, since it is too stratified. We must never allow the cheese to rule us!

[@Chloe-ju7jp]

@@SunnySunshine74 based

[@ANessunoInteressaLaPoesia]

"The best test to know whether an entity is real or fictional is the test of suffering. A nation cannot suffer, it cannot feel pain, it cannot feel fear, it has no consciousness. Even if it loses a war, the soldier suffers, the civilians suffer, but the nation cannot suffer. Similarly, a corporation cannot suffer, the pound sterling, when it loses its value, it doesn’t suffer. All these things, they’re fictions. If people bear in mind this distinction, it could improve the way we treat one another and the other animals. It’s not such a good idea to cause suffering to real entities in the service of fictional stories." Yuval Noah Harari

[@pulidoggy]

Harari, my favourite author 🙂 And, by the way, a me la poesia interessa 😁

[@ANessunoInteressaLaPoesia]

@@pulidoggy Hi 😊, if you love poetry it would be an honor for me if you would subscribe to my channel!

[@adityapathak5761]

@@ANessunoInteressaLaPoesia hi, I just found your comment, and admittedly I don't get poetry and am not interested in it at all. Do you address such folks?

[@ANessunoInteressaLaPoesia]

@@adityapathak5761 Hi there, yes I do. The channel's mission is to bring the beauty of poetry to the people that are usually not interested in it. And to "bring back" the love for poetry in general. Poetry has a lot to offer to the human soul, however in this fast-paced world it's fading away as an art form. A part for my channel (which is in Italian, but has subtitles), I suggest you try this other channel, maybe it will help you to appreciate poetry for the first time: kzbin.info

[@WindowsXP_logon_sound_25yrsago]

Wow those are brilliant words and never truer than today. There are millions around the world that need to hear them (most probably right where I live in the usa) and wake up to this simple fact; so they can stop being so blindly emotionally manipulated by those on high for their own nefarious or destructive purposes, and often, though not always, at that ordinary person's expense. Man, such simple words; really a shame more people won't take note and heed them. I mean I'm nothing special, but I woke up to this scam years ago. Concepts like these are just FICTION; they're all just ideas generated by those in power or those connected to big money to program people's emotions to serve an AGENDA, their agenda, and people (us average ordinary rustics) should be smarter than to constantly fall for it.

[@QazwerDave]

Interesting angle to think about modern cultural conflicts: The state fights for the nation to serve it, rather than the state serving the nation. The nation has to limit this, and in stead make sure that the state serves the nation.

[@Dan-ud8hz]

"The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said 'This is mine', and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody." - J.J. Rousseau, 1754

[@j2k14]

beware of listening to the sus imposter amongus

[@snowstrobe]

@@normandy2501 Why not? Every single thing comes from the resources of this planet.

[@baconsarny-geddon8298]

This is an idiotic position. Let's say no-one was "naive enough" to accept that individuals have a right to claim land. Everyone just goes on living the hunter-gatherer life of early man. Then one day, I come along, and decide that instead of spending hours hunting and gathering my own food, it's easier for me to just wait for others to hunt/gather, and then take their food by threat of violence- As long as I'm either stronger, and/or more willing to use violence, there's nothing they can do about that. You just handed rulership of your society to first thug willing to take what they want by force. And even if those people I rob get angry enough to sneak up and kill me while I'm asleep, they're all back inthe same boat, equally screwed, the next time some other thug inevitably has the same realization of "hey, I'm bigger than everyone else- If I want what they have, they can't stop me taking it!!!" It's an inherently unstable society, because it all falls apart when ONE SINGLE person dissents, and refuses to play nice... and it's even worse than that, because the biggest, strongest guy is always incentivized to be that one single dissenter, because that will elevate him from "just another hunter-gatherer like everyone else", to "the one guy who gets everything wants, for no 'work' apart from the occaissional threat/act of violence" It's the same braindead, adolescent utopianism as anarchists who say "society would be better off with no police" (something never, ever said by anyone who's ever actually lived someplace with no cops/where cops won't go- ALWAYS hellholes run by thugs)- A great way to create an inherently unstable society, which will, neccessarily, become a either a chaotic, violent mess, or a might-makes-right tyranny, within 5 minutes flat. It's not a co-incidence that statistically, the most violent societies (both present-day, and historically) are those with no formalized property rights, and no law enforcement- places where you have a higher chance of violent death, than the front line in WW2 or the Viet Nam war.

[@cv4809]

Wasn't Rousseau the one who came up with the myth of the noble savage

[@Dan-ud8hz]

@@cv4809 In the Western world, yes. And Nietzsche built on his work. However, he's echoing sentiments from earlier times and other places: "A thousand measures of gold is substantial profit, and prime ministership is an exalted position indeed. But haven't you ever heard about the ox offered in the official sacrifice? He is generously fed for years and dressed in the finest embroidered fabrics, so that he may one day be led into the Great Temple for slaughter. When that day comes, though he may wish that he were just a little orphaned piglet instead, it is too late! So scram, you! Do not defile me! I'd rather enjoy myself wallowing in the filth than let myself be controlled by some head of state." - Zhuangzi Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." - The Gospel of Thomas (Nag Hammadi Scrolls), Verse 77

[@CousinoMacul]

The indigenous peoples of North America consider themselves nations. This most certainly does not line up with the nation states of North America.

[@AJX-2]

Because most Indian nations never organized themselves into nation-states.

[@Redactedlllllllllllll]

@@AJX-2 they did freedom right, just weren't sinister and violent enough for their own good.

[@fighterpilot9981]

@@Redactedlllllllllllll Nope, you can find plenty of examples of behavior like that. Your first mistake though, is a classic, pretending native Americans behaved similarly across the continent, which they did not.

[@JaredSquee]

I will definitely be sharing this video everywhere. Congrats on creating the top youtube video on the Nation-State.

[@SamSphinx]

I'd be curious to see a version of this from the point of view of various indigenous populations around the globe. Since many tribes and peoples did define themselves as some kind of nation, and in the case of some of the South/Meso American indigenous empires, did have their equivalents of burgeoning states. (All this hopefully from an Indigenous content creator, of course)

[@randomloserdontthinkaboutit]

I'm told I should be proud or at least feel lucky to be an American, yet I feel absolutely nothing in regards to what imaginary lines on a map my mother was within when I was born. If only I was born within the lines of a nation-state that provided me healthcare 🙄

[@godfather7339]

before somebody lists all the "great" things the US has done, what use are they? what use is the internet if people do not have the most basic of of needs, security ranks the 2nd most basic need in maslow's hierarchy of needs after food, water. how can a country be great, if it is rated to have worse healthcare than its poor neighbor, mexico. just goes to show how capitalism doesn't distribute according to needs, pretty sure both of us have AC's and can easily buy one, ironical, how people who really need it, people in desserts don't have that.

[@Venom96930]

You should be proud of your country achievements.

[@pygmalion8952]

@@Venom96930 that is not my achievement and/or i didn't contribute much of anything to lead to that achievement. why should i be proud? just because some guy said "this is our border and we are united as the people of this land" hundreds years ago? Nationalism is just quick dopamine and it is dangerous. you can be proud (or happy for that matter) of your family, of your comrades, of your friends but being proud because your nation has a strong military, or leading in science or art is foolish. maybe you can be happy? because these things (art and science) has spill over effects on the society you live in. you will be in a better society with them but it is about proximity, not national identity that you should be happy about. and i already explained why you shouldn't be proud of your nation's achievements. also nationalism is exclusionary so you necessary look over people who are not in your identity group. not necessarly every one of other groups, it can be selective and it leads to an hierarchical understanding of the human species with arbitrary measures such as nations.

[@rajavlitra]

@@Venom96930 where are you from buddy

[@guy-sl3kr]

Same. Wish I could cash in all the pledges of allegiance I was forced to do as a kid in exchange for some fucking medical attention.

[@aadkinsl3095]

I have literally never heard of anyone outside of Canada knowing that CBC Gem exists. Hell, most Canadians I know are barely aware of CBC Gem

[@williamrinehart5337]

Another absolute banger from the most adorable theory nerd on youtube.

[@appleslover]

Traditions also shape national identity, which reminds me of my favourite English tradition : losing to Germany in football tournaments. (Sorry I had to make this joke because of the shirt you were wearing and because of the ongoing Euros 😅).

[@sowietdoge6259]

I would love if you would do a video on how corporations exert power over states - in instrumental, structural and discursive ways and how this occurs in the modern world. Maybe talking about how mining corporations in Africa literally hold state governments in economic chokeholds? The United Fruit Company in Honduras and its relevance to the current day? I would recommend checking out Dr Ainsley Elbra's (one of my professors!) articles like "Interests need not be pursued if they can be created: private governance in African gold mining" and "Governing African Gold Mining: Private Governance and the Resource Curse" which explores the dimensions in which corporations are essentially *becoming* governments. Could make for a good video essay topic!

[@Dalle333]

This video was simply brilliant, well put together and informative. Got some more reading to do on 'invented traditions' to do now which is always appreciated!

[@HGWaze]

One of your best so far!

[@jackcavanagh4041]

Thank you for explaining this! I've heard from people before that the concept of countries as we know it has only been a recent invention, but nobody has ever bothered to explain what they meant until now. Very informative.

[@joshuataylor3550]

Sounds like you didn't ask

[@seasidescott]

When people insist on "America, love it or leave it" I ask if they are in love with their apartment or need to insist that their house is the greatest ever built - or is it just the place they live for now?

[@idontwantahandlethough]

That right there is one of my least favorite phrases of all time, along with "facts don't care about your feelings" (because it's based off of the completely false assertion that U.S. conservatism is in any way backed up by data, and that the majority of their policy positions somehow _aren't_ based upon their emotional reactions... hmmm, do you think they're perhaps projecting?!) and anything that includes the word PeRsOnAl rEsPoNsIbiLiTy. So obnoxious!

[@seasidescott]

@@idontwantahandlethough Agreed. Somehow they took a positive statement about owning your life (taking responsibility), empowering yourself to grow, and made into blaming the victim. Responsibility can only be taken personally even if it's some great cultural evil. So why the trickery in redundancy? Because it's blaming. "You have to take personal responsibility for that bullet hitting you. If you'd only not decided to be in your home it wouldn't have happened." (said about police shooting someone) It's always after the fact, perfect hindsight, but avoids the issue of what the blamers feel threatened by. They react as if they themselves are the victims of any possible criticism. I think to do so would admit of powerlessness and vulnerability on their own part.

[@yretsymsdees1092]

This is my favorite video of yours so far, Tom! Excellent work

[@consentclub8431]

Great timing, I was just binge-watching your videos 👍

[@72rmboyd]

"A society becomes totalitarian when its structure becomes flagrantly artificial: that is, when its ruling class has lost its function but succeeds in clinging to power by force or fraud". George Orwell.

[@griffinberserk9295]

Facism.

[@72rmboyd]

@@griffinberserk9295 The liberty of a democracy is not safe if people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power. Franklin D Roosevelt

[@emanuele1107]

from a Brazilian perspective, the whole "nation state" part of the video feels kinda weird we are acutely aware that we are not a "nation", our history calsses are basically all about how we are a bunch of different people jammed together in a very big circle on a map (besides the european monarcs' bickering, which takes up a big space in the curriculum too) very cool video tho, specially the part about the nationalistic independesnce movements!! :)

[@rockjianrock]

states which are multi-ethnic and multi-cultural have a more difficult time, and "nation-building" is a challenge. Additionally, marginalised indigenous peoples (e.g. native Americans) also are a thorn in the side of the concept of a modern nation-state.

[@Teilnehmerurkunde]

Great vid as always! Keep going with the amazing work!

[@bloodytea]

this topic has been a niche interest for me for a while so was glad to see you cover it. great job!

[@Maunakea0]

Interesting stuff. I wonder if you considered including anything on the east India company, as an example of people being ruled by a corporation. Let’s hope that stuff stays in the past.

[@georgew2014]

Too late. large corporations, usually from extractive industries, can indirectly set policies in small countries.

[@lennytriem1942]

I loved this video so much, thank you for putting so much time and effort into it!

[@Tom_Nicholas]

Thank you Lenny, I'm so glad you liked it!

[@nicholasrevill6610]

Great video as always, keep up the good work!

[@clarkeyboy2010]

Great video. So well presented! Well done.

[@tylerwelsh2188]

do a video on the peoples avoiding nation-states like in Rojava or Chiapas/Zapatista's

[@rockjianrock]

that's like the major theme of Professor James Scott's entire written corpus (cited in the video)

[@tylerwelsh2188]

@@rockjianrock against the grain is a great book, james scott is one of many theorists who dabble in this. Ocalan is a far easier read imo

[@sayakchoudhury9711]

One-way of energising the idea of nations as being a separate distinct entity is by making the nation equivalent to a person, ie personification of nation. Like 'mother india/ভারত মাতা', the concept of which emerged during the Indian independence movement, popularised by the novel Anandamath (this idea however was present in older sanskrit texts, but definitely popularised by the novel and an eponymous painting by the great Abanindranath Tagore). The iconography I would argue is heavily steeped in Hindu mythology and is deeply excluding for many people groups in India. During the time of its origin it was an useful idea probably to energize the freedom struggle. Over the years, however it has become exceedingly exclusionary and is deeply linked to a push towards cultural homogeneity.

[@jojobabok9373]

Incoherent rambling. "Cultural homogeneity" & "exceedingly exclusionary" are mutually contradictory themes.

[@jojobabok9373]

@@varadhk3159 Hindu nationalism (although not as overt as it is now) has always tied the Indian State together, since it's inception. In fact, if the precedent of Islamic rule did not exist in the Indian sub-continent (via the Mughals, Sultans, etc.,) the partition would never have occurred.

[@rais1953]

​@@jojobabok9373 It depends on who is viewing it. I've visited India many times and spent a lot of time in the company of Indian Muslims. To us non-Indians your Muslim fellow countrymen are typically Indian. Their language, the way they speak English, their food (except for the use of meat), general personal habits are all typically Indian.

[@TheBorz0]

​@@jojobabok9373there was no state in the first place, there were many micro states with different languages and cultures.

[@MDobri-sy1ce]

Hey, Tom I liked your weekly blog series!

[@sneakythumbs9900]

Awesome video covering concepts I struggle to articulate to other people

[@kymoeser1795]

Great Tom, the content you produce is thought-provoking informative and very well researched and this one continues the trend; yet is also very topical and relevant today. After all, how else can one create the imagined idea that each of us is part of and connected to a community of millions, without the myths of history, of how great we were, the iconology of individuals, groups, and ideology, like a royal family, or constitution and sport, particularly football the so-called working-class game, and the creation of new myths, the benevolent billionaires and the caring corporations. These have defined our past and are defining our futures by creating alternative facts and a tribal and separated global population. Great video, keep it up!

[@mikeysugarsugargoon1879]

I mean this entirely as a compliment - the educational video combined with the noise of the waves? Incredibly relaxing good to sleep to

[@swoondrones]

Your videos are amazing, Tom.

[@cathyrinepsycoor7056]

Thank you for this resource Keep it up

[@zandie12]

"there are many channels on KZbin which make videos about borders" Johnny Harris: "just @ me next time..."

[@alphabettical1]

I haven't gone back and watched the beginning yet (was late to the premiere) but I wonder if we could ever truly not identify with nation states (in the way the conclusion says we keep coming back to) without truly accepting other forms of family, because that's probably what people think of when considering what is 'natural' about nations.

[@andresfernandes5906]

Brilliant analysis. Thank you Tom

[@olivergilpin]

Super important video, thanks Tom! Appreciate how you educate on more than sites 😜

[@Kelirafy]

This video was insanely interesting to watch!! You had my full attention throughout and I like how much you brought up since this is a topic I often think about myself. Thank you very much for your hard work and research.

[@jeandanielodonnncada]

I appreciate your explaining the distinction between nation and state, and doing so in English. I'm Québécois and I feel this is better understood in French, but in English people misunderstand our insistence we are a "nation" as automatically *separatist.* We say National Assembly and National Parks and National Holiday for Québec-level things, and while we have a significant minority who want separation from Canada, simply calling ourselves a nation does not itself mean we would leave Canada. Probably parallel with Scotland, most people here are proud to be Québécois, even while most people voted for staying in the larger country.

[@Eterrath]

Worth every single second. Fantastic video. Thank you so much for starting from the beginning

[@dyzoly]

Another great one!

[@sobtrdeszl7806]

it's amazing that he looks like a 16yo in other videos and a 49yo in some

[@BrianFace182]

Anarchist Theoreeeee... makes me dance around the room with glee

[@wageslave5093]

I am an anarchist.

[@BrianFace182]

@@wageslave5093 me too friend

[@wageslave5093]

@@BrianFace182, what type of anarchist are you?

[@BrianFace182]

@@wageslave5093 a baby one with very little theoretical knowledge who hasn't delved deep enough to know but am cool with that. I just know ancaps need to fuck all the way off

[@wageslave5093]

@@BrianFace182, yes! I became attracted to anarchy when I was young because I knew about a lot of awful things that almost every government does constantly but I didn’t know anarchy was a thing and I was glad to find many anarchists online.

[@dietwald]

Excellent as always

[@DjokovicIsOurLordAndSaviour]

Great video Tom.

[@DaniyaalKhan2000]

"If this video had a slightly higher budget".. it would be a Tom Scott Video. JK, love your videos, thanks a lot for making these!

[@GUILLOTINE_GANG]

What The Theory always makes my bones happy, great video.

[@Tom_Nicholas]

I thought there would likely be a few folks out there who would be pleased to see a video which went back to basics!

[@southgecko3653]

Thanks for the video, man. Your content is always the best

[@taygavural780]

Wow man. You put in some serious effort to these videos. Thanks for the brilliant content!

[@foursix32]

Everyone knows countries were invented by John Country back in the 1700s smh

[@yoyonn1]

Actually it was Count Tree in the 15th century, but over time they just made it one word

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

Was it not in 1438 when James R Country put together the first country

[@PaleGhost69]

Your thinking of Jim Earl County.

[@robertwinslade3104]

Great stuff, Tom

[@fernandoluna6589]

Great work Tom

[@ertymexx]

Thanks Tom, this is what I have been arguing against nationalists for years, though with far less hard facts (though I knew the outline and the basics). Nationalists tend to think that a country is a nation, forgetting that the peoples within said area used to be far more diverse. In Sweden we have had huge regions with slightly (or sometimes very) different languages or cultures, that were all forced into homogenity through schooling or even brute force (the sami population is a sad and extreme example of this). Nationalists think that all of Sweden was always swedish, even though Scania (Skåne) was a part of Denmark until the 1600s, and Finland was long a swedish colony as well. The idea of "everyone being the same" within some arbitrary borders is a very dangerous and harmful idea, but sadly a very prevalent one. 😞

[@Cracky003]

Countries are just large scale prisons to control the labor supply's movement ability and opportunities. Nothing more nothing less. Edit: I like the fairly direct comparison to the collective identity provided by religion in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Excellent work!

[@gigazordeast1730]

Tom I've been waiting for a video for so long bruh

[@Lfppfs]

Another great video, Tom!