How Did We Get the Concept of Hell?

[@Dr.Mogobo]

Hi Dan. In a documentary I saw several years ago, a gentleman said that a lot of the fire and brimstone, eternal torment etc. was added in the medieval period to keep the people in line and to keep the coffers full. Love to hear your take on that. Thanks!

[@carlkim2577]

Even as an atheist, I found your scholarship impressive. It's fascinating to hear these informed explanations of ancient text.

[@glovere2]

Watching these conversations, I feel fortunate to have been raised a Quaker, seeing the Bible as inspirational and not the literal word of God. We negotiated with the scriptures as Dr. McClellan often talks about, but they were never the central focus of worship, which was silent and between us and our own inner light of the spirit. It also helped that Quakers don't have churches or clergy telling us what to believe. I have no stake in these arguments because I was never loaded up with dogma I had to defend. I also thank my parents for encouraging me to think for myself. Eternal damnation was never a concern.

[@diogeneslamp8004]

👍

[@Dalekzilla]

Well, according to Matthew 25:32-46, Christ does mention "eternal punishment" for those who ignore or abuse the poor, the sick, and the marginalized...but exactly what that punishment is is unclear. One thing is for certain, and that is that the concept of Hell is very important to the evilvangelicals and fundumbmentalists. Their salvation alone is not enough for them...they must rest assured that everyone they hate, or who doesn't believe EXACTLY as they do, will burn forever as punishment.

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

Wicked, isn't it?

[@stuartkenny3050]

The passage in Matthew is "aionios kolasis" which means "discipline of the age." It is not everlasting punishment. It is a godly discipline.

[@Dalekzilla]

@@stuartkenny3050 Hmm...I wonder why every Bible I've ever seen says "eternal" punishment? You'd think they would have changed that wording after all these years. In any event, those scriptures are pretty much crystal clear....if you care (and presumably advocate) for the poor and needy you are doing for Christ....and if you choose to turn your back on them, or demonize them (as many have done with migrants and minorities) you are NOT doing for Christ, and will be punished.

[@JoshMcSwain]

@@Dalekzilla also expanding on that point, there are two Greek words for punishment: kolasis (which is to help the punished) and timora (which is retribution punishment). How could eternal hell be remedial for the punished at all?

[@Dalekzilla]

@@JoshMcSwain That is an excellent point. In any event, I've always wondered about the concept of "eternal" hell, as well as the temporal nature of purgatory. In the long run, I don't really worry about the semantics, but rather about what Christ actually taught/intended and mandated, as opposed, say, to what Paul taught, and how they differed.

[@HassanRadwan133]

The descriptions of Hell in the Qur'an are strikingly similar to some of the descriptions in apocryphal Christian literature - such as the Apocalypse of Peter. It's clear that the Qur'an was influenced by these ideas of Hell (Jahannam in Arabic ie Gehenna.)

[@jackcimino8822]

And possibly Egyptian Mythology too. That has the earliest known instance of a fiery hell, but it was temporary and not eternal.

[@chadstroman3325]

And goes along with the post mortem "weighing of the heart" with the need of an answer to "If the heart weighs evil, then what?". I also thought further along what Dan was saying in the timeframe of Hebrew history. When the Jews were the triumphant rulers, the reward for obedience was earthly/temporal blessings (land of Milk and Honey rewards) but in the later Babylonian and subsequent Roman subjugation and rule of Israel, the thought then turns to "what is the reward for obedience to the Hebrew faith in life if we live and die subjugated? Where's the self governed land and where's the Milk and Honey?" Which naturally births the thought of getting rewarded OR punished after life and if there is judgement and reward and punishment after life, they look around and see what post mortal recompense exists in their environs, which is the Greco/Roman form. I don't know if that's how it happened, but if it did, it tracks for me. But it does seem pretty clear that the reward for obedience in Judaism beginning with Moses and during the Kings era, were all temporal. When those temporal promises failed under Babylonian and Roman rule, the reward for obedience and the punishment for disobedience evolved as well.

[@Nexus-jg7ev]

​@@chadstroman3325 I wonder why the subjugation and suffering, which should be unexpected if Yahweh was the true God who ruled the universe, did not lead to the natural realization that this God maybe doesn't really exist.

[@MyMy-tv7fd]

as Islam occurs several centuries after the bible had existed, it is obviously highly derivative

[@grieftex803]

The Quran was an Aramaic Christian string of texts later compiled by those who would invent Islam around 850 ad.

[@jmiller1918]

Great video, good information, but at around 3:47 there is a mention of Jesus representing three different ideas of Hell in the Gospels, and I would have loved to have that part expanded upon, with the examples.

[@adrianvargas1380]

Many verses found in Mark, another one in Matthew with a similar wording of that of Isaiah: "where the worm shall not die, and the fire is not quenched" In Luke, Jesus says things related to going up as in Heaven, but he also says "the kingdom of God is among you" , a misread verse where people think that he's saying that the kingdom of God is within *us*, wrong, among as in around us. I would love to give you more examples, that's why I'm reading Heaven and Hell by Bart Ehrman, I can email you the book if you want

[@jmiller1918]

@@adrianvargas1380Thanks for your kind reply. I probably wouldn't read a whole book on a device, as I'm pretty partial to old-time printed books. But, when you finish the Ehrman book, I'd love to hear what you thought of it.

[@adrianvargas1380]

@@jmiller1918 This is how the second half of the book goes from my understanding: Part I: Jesus´ ministry starts -> He preaches Jewish Apocalypticism -> He's crucified and killed Part II: Paul is raised Jewish and persecutes Christians for believing that the Jewish Messiah was killed and humiliated -> He has a vision of Jesus so he converts -> Years later he writes his letters to churches and people, explaining his theology. Paul's Theology: -Jewish Apocalypticism, however, this time for you to be saved, you have to believe in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, and after that, be baptized and follow the teachings, and law? A view different from what Jesus taught, but still not contradictory, since it is still based on Apocalypticism Part III: Mark and Matthew are written decades later, and the rewards or punishments mentioned are strictly Apocalyptic thinking, some passages are even similar to the Hebrew Scriptures like "Where the fire is not quenched, and their worm shall not die". Part IV: More generations pass away, Paul is close to death if he hasn´t passed away yet -> People start reinterpreting Jesus' message and who he was -> Christianity spreads through oral traditions by people who are influenced by Greek views of the soul and afterlife -> suspected forgeries are made in Paul's name and the later Gospels/texts change Jesus' view on the afterlife. Part V: The standard becomes Heaven and Hell, after people had argued whether the resurrection of Jesus and ours would have been only in spirit or only in body, a view Paul had never agreed upon. Part VI: "Gehenna", "Hades" and "Sheol" are mistranslated as "Hell", when only "Hades" would be reasonable to translate as such.

[@AH-ml2jl]

He talks about it a bit more here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKmWdZ5_qtp0bdUfeature=shared

[@ptgannon1]

Hmm. Jesus was a Jew, so Hell would have been Sheol for him, yet the authors were Greek and used the word Hades. I think it can be argued that Jesus believed in Sheol. Then there's Hades which is used a couple times, the most famous of which is: "...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it..." In this case the original word for Hell is Hades which is Greco-Roman paganism. Hades, after all is the brother of Zeus and Poseidon. It is described in some detail by Homer in the Iliad and the Odyssey. This was one time when Jesus was right. Paganism did not prevail, the Church stomped it out. Then we have Gehenna, which I guess can be seen as a place of eternal torment or simple destruction. Until this video, I always understood Gehenna to be a sacrilegious place where the early Israelites sacrificed their kids to Moloch or Yahweh, depending on who you ask. I understood it to later become the Jerusalem town dump, but he's saying that's not right. A dump of burning trash lines up with scripture describing the snapping and gnashing teeth of wild animals eating sacrificial remains, and the twisting worm of smoke drifting through the valley from the permanent fires. I'd like to hear more about Gehenna.

[@TrisjensChronicles1203]

I love how he broke down this and showed us, that hell is a concept and complete bs… The fundamentalists are going to be livid and will still try to defend the fiction.

[@grimlund]

Once people start to ditch this evil hell doctrine christianity will die out. Most christians are only in this religion just because the fear of hell. Luckely these old fire and brimestone preachers are a dying breed. Threatening people with eternal torture and damnation is what makes these kind of people get out of bed every morning. If you take away that thing they have nothing more to live for.

[@Sewblon]

I missed that part. where did he say that?

[@starpenta]

​@@Sewblon, the whole video is about how it has been believed and who/what was added and when.

[@martinelzen5127]

TY for the explanation Dan!

[@leischutte9179]

Thank you for trying to provide access and information to real history

[@avi8r66]

In any carrot and stick system you need a stick. Hell is the stick.

[@TrisjensChronicles1203]

Hell yeah… No pun intended.

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

The biggest problem for such systems is vegetable-hating masochists.

[@avi8r66]

@@jacobreeves3110Got it, you don't know what the carrot and stick metaphor means. Stick is punishment. Carrot is reward.

[@JustinAllenMedley]

@Dan, first off, I love what you do. You have helped me come to understand my faith, and I no longer live in fear of retribution, but in a place of loving and accepting all people. You’ve helped me turn my Bible into a book of love, instead of a book of hate. I feel comfortable with my beliefs today and don’t feel like I’m gonna be punished for them. So thank you for that. I’m not asking you to change your format on your videos or anything like that, and maybe I just haven’t seen this yet, but in comments or in your video or something, when you reference places in the Bible, like where it talks about Sheol for example, can you please add those references? In the comments section or in the video itself? I am REALLY trying to do the research myself, but sometimes you discuss specific verses and I’m not exactly sure which verse it is you’re talking about. Maybe in the comment section just list out every reference? Maybe even a list out some of the other books that you refer to? You may already do this, and if you do, I apologize. Like I said, I may have just not seen it yet. Thanks!

[@celsus7979]

I doubt Dan has the time to read comments, but you can ask this question in one of his livestreams!

[@DallyQuinYahu]

The parable of Lazarus is a parable about how the rich Pharisees treated the poor. It has nothing to do with the afterlife at all.

[@Sewblon]

Why do you think that?

[@Şytrus-prod]

If that was the case why would it even talk about the afterlife. Why would it even suggest at a post death punishment for the cruel

[@trinidadscorpion3835]

Thirty years ago the Church of England announced that Hell does not exist.

[@ryanweible9090]

given english weather, it woudl be somewhat redundant.

[@diogeneslamp8004]

@@ryanweible9090 Oh snap.

[@TheLizardOfOz]

It's interesting that the earliest NT documents, the genuine Pauline epistles, don't mention eternal torment, & that the concept was introduced by the Greek authors of the gospels.

[@Sportliveonline]

What is the Buddhist concept of hell? Naraka (Buddhism) - Wikipedia A Naraka differs from one concept of hell in Christianity in two respects: firstly, beings are not sent to Naraka as the result of a divine judgment or punishment; and secondly, the length of a being's stay in a Naraka is not eternal, though it is usually incomprehensibly long.

[@starpenta]

There's another religious channel, done by a PhD in theology, that has a video about the different Buddhist beliefs in hell. It's called 'ReligionForBreakfast'. I think Dan M. has been on it before.

[@jenna2431]

Hell sells.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Hell sells Bell's smells well.

[@markbremer1813]

Dan The end of Revelation seems to suggest either "eternal destruction" or "eternal torment" by way of the lake of fire. Would you mind doing a short piece on this topic? Thanks

[@TimThompson-ve5sm]

Dan you mention something about asking for help from the ancestors? Can you go more into this

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

It's one helluva concept

[@scambammer6102]

tip your waitress

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

@scambammer6102 try the veal 😁

[@fariesz6786]

Dan's a boss

[@murphytwin]

I have more recently struggled with the concept of hell coming from a Christian background. The doctrine I grew up with has told me that either A) Everyone gets a shot a salvation by having a chance to believe in Jesus. I don't see how that would be remotely possible since all people groups everywhere, throughout history, would have to hear the gospel and believe. How would that have been possible for tribes and people groups in the furthest parts of Asia, or in the Americas or Indengenous groups in Australia at the time of Jesus? OR B) God is sovereign all those groups of people didn't hear and are going to hell as a result. That just seems unthinkable of a 'loving' God. Nowadays I think that salvation is likely universal-ish.

[@dalecampbell5617]

When you look at true meaning of Hebrew and Greek words such as; Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, nephesh, basanizo, aionian, kolasis, thelo and elko, just to name a few, it brings more clarity of who God and Jesus are. Plus I find clarity when I read from Young's Literal Translation and Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible. For example; Matthew 25:46 and these shall go away into age-abiding correction and the righteous into age-abiding life. Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible.

[@WellFedSheep]

Luke 12:4-5 KJV 4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

[@MyBucketOfScapulas]

That’s Gehenna being translated as hell.

[@WellFedSheep]

@@MyBucketOfScapulas The name is irrelevant when the act threatened is being done to the soul after death by God as a warning. Matthew 10:28 KJV And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[@MyBucketOfScapulas]

@@WellFedSheep The name may not be relevant to you but it is relevant to the video we’re both commenting on right now.

[@WellFedSheep]

@@MyBucketOfScapulas The video is about the concept of hell and when it began. My point is that Jesus accurately describes hell whether or not you agree with the name the translators used is irrelevant to the idea being expressed.

[@jamesarnette1394]

How would you know it's an accurate description of hell unless you've been there?

[@thejohnnybgoode63]

It'd be interesting to somehow plot the evolution of the concept of hell alongside the colonial expansion of a very hell-focused Islam. While the OT and NT whisper periodically about these concepts, the Quran makes reference to it in virtually every surah, to some effect in subjugating populations. Did the revival of Aristotelianism and hell move together in this clash of cultures?

[@johntuel2375]

I have the same X-Men shirt. I wore it yesterday haha

[@markmh835]

"No one mourns the Wicked...." 🎶 🎵 🤪

[@nathanhaines1721]

Where in the gospels did Jesus teach eternal torment? Matthew 25? Even that is ambiguous. Rev 20:10 only Scripture in Bible explicitly speaks about anyone being tormented forever.

[@paulk5311]

the word for forever often means an age but was almost always interpreted as eternal instead. likely due to people passing down the catholic tradition of an eternal punishment which is totally contrary to a loving God. even man is not so cruel as to sentence even the worst of criminals to endless torment and yet many attribute an all loving God to that concept. also many claim the punishment in hell is the same for everybody which is eternal fire. so for the worst most cruel types such as a hitler would have the same punishment as someone who stole a loaf of bread because he was hungry. that is mind boggling.

[@CraigGood]

Hell is murky. Nice Shakespeare reference, there.

[@joseerickcortes2189]

Hi Dan, When are we going to have "the fit for this video is Club Atlético Peñarol" ?

[@tim57243]

Question for Dan or anybody else here: Paul's statement "[A]ll Israel will be saved" at Romans 11:26 appears to say that all Jews go to Heaven. Therefore, apparently, people who have Christian beliefs are better off converting to Judaism than Christianity. If they convert to Christianity, getting to Heaven might require faith (but you never know if you have enough) or maybe it requires works (but you never know if you did enough or did the right things). In contrast, if you convert to Judaism, you know for sure you are a Jew and therefore go to Heaven. This seems bizarre. Paul would surely prefer that people convert to Christianity but here he is creating an incentive to do something incompatible. What do you think Paul really meant here?

[@NWPaul72]

Makes sense to me, the Greek gods were pretty hip to the idea of eternal torment.

[@AmericanSubstance]

Hey, I noticed in Luke 16:21-31, The rich man burning in hell asked Abraham to send Lazarus to his family to warn them about hell and Abraham said, "They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them." But not Moses Nor the other prophets spoke about hell in the Hebrew Bible... Is that a flaw? Is it possible that Jesus never told this story and it was just thrown in the New Testament? Because I do believe hell is just a man-made concept. I'm just trying to make sence of it. Love your videos btw, God bless!

[@AmericanSubstance]

I just tried to have a conversation with a pastor about this. He wouldn't answer my questions and just called me crazy...

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Based on nothing other than good sense, I’m going to say that the point being made was that teachings on how to live a righteous life and avoid postmortem punishment were already provided by Moses and the prophets so the rich man’s family didn’t need a special visitation from Lazarus. It wasn’t that Moses and the prophets taught how to avoid this punishment specifically but rather that they already taught sufficiently on how to be righteous. Does that make sense?

[@Limited_Light]

I have heard for a handful of years that the late Jewish or Christian conceptualizations of Hell were highly influenced by Zoroastrianism. If this comment is followed up on, may we also discuss conceptions of Hell in Hinduism and Buddhism? One might think with reincarnation there's no sort of hell, but I recall hearing otherwise in a college course decades ago plus I think Religion for Breakfast had a video about this in the past 1 to 2 years.

[@lnsflare1]

The hells in Hinduism and Buddhism, for the sects that believe in it, are more of a purgatory where you suffer for a period according to your karma, and then you continue to reincarnate, also according to your karma. The one time I remember Hinduism mentioning an eternal hell, it turned out to have been a test of character for the one of the Pandava brothers and ended up not being real.

[@Limited_Light]

@@lnsflare1 Yes, I understand one could reincarnate after being in a hell

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Theologically, Hinduism 🕉 (and Buddhism ☸ by lack of saying otherwise) makes more sense as being a natural formation. As in, Hell is just where the evil 😈 souls go, so all its problems (and benefits) are because of virtually every living thing from the trees to the animals to the sapient beings to the gods being evil. There are also a few good creatures there, like a bunch of divine dogs 🐕 that don't seem to mind the ambiance, for complicated reasons. That also makes it less harsh, as you reincarnate as a living creature that is adapted to Hell 🔥🔥🔥, through evolution by natural selection, so the harshness is mitigated by your body's nature. There is also a powerful, very authoritarian government there.

[@Sportliveonline]

What is the Buddhist concept of hell? Naraka (Buddhism) - Wikipedia A Naraka differs from one concept of hell in Christianity in two respects: firstly, beings are not sent to Naraka as the result of a divine judgment or punishment; and secondly, the length of a being's stay in a Naraka is not eternal, though it is usually incomprehensibly long.

[@scambammer6102]

@@Limited_Light "I understand one could reincarnate after being in a hell" You must have met my ex

[@TheBiggestJesus]

The effect of judgment is "aionion/eonian," not "eternal," "everlasting" or "forever," definitely not "forever AND ever" (Heb. 6:2).

[@Sewblon]

The NRSVUE translates that as "eternal judgment" Granted, judgment =/= punishment. But whatever it is. Its eternal if you believe the translation that Dan recommends.

[@TheBiggestJesus]

@@Sewblon I don't believe that NRSVUE translation. An "eternal" judgment would have no beginning or end. It's impossible for a creature to experience a judgment that had no beginning. I'll stick with the Greek and the CLNT's translation "eonian."

[@Sewblon]

@@TheBiggestJesus In modern English, "eternal" can just mean "everlasting." see Meriam Webster's entry on "eternal." But also, the author of the CLNT died back in 1965, and the rule of thumb is that more recent scholarship supersedes more ancient scholarship. Also, the translator of the CLNT assumed that every Greek or Hebrew word should always have the same translation in English, which is not how Linguistics works, there are just more words in English than there are in the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament. So expecting the same word in Hebrew or Greek to always translate into the same word in English isn't reasonable. The translator broke his own rule about one English word for one Greek or Hebrew word frequently by translating the same Greek word as "in" sometimes and "with" other times.

[@TheBiggestJesus]

@@Sewblon I prefer not to base my understanding of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures on modern English. You can't divorce the meaning of the Greek adjective aionios (Heb 6:2) from the noun aion. An aion is the longest segment of time known in the Scriptures, but it is a segment of time with a beginning and an end. And eonian things are those occurring within the "times eonian" (Titus 1:2), which also have a beginning and an end. The judgment is not everlasting or eternal.

[@Sewblon]

@@TheBiggestJesus "I prefer not to base my understanding of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures on modern English." Me neither, I prefer to base it on scholarship done by the people who are still alive and working.

[@scambammer6102]

what is the point of including the word "conscious" in the phrase "eternal conscious punishment"? Is there some kind of punishment that is not conscious? The NT pretty consistently speaks in terms of eternal fiery torment for non-believers. Apologists try to deny that because it is morally inexcusable, but that's what the book says.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Distressful behaviour patterns when asleep with unremembered dreams suggest it is possible to have subconscious torment.

[@scambammer6102]

@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana lol ok. I don't think that's in the NT. It's also equivocating on "conscious". Isn't subconscious part of consciousness?

[@MichaelDeHaven]

Fair enough but Dan starts out discussing the OT and different philosophical concepts the Jewish people were thinking thru. I think it is just to be rigorous in the explanation. As you basically pointed out apologists like to reinterpret things, shall we say, liberally.

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

If the subconscious was part of the consciousness, it wouldn't be SUBconscious... 🤷@@scambammer6102

[@eeyoreofborg]

All of the post-video thumbnails I got after watching this video was Dan McClellan or Ryan Gosling on SNL. I... have no idea what to make of this.

[@benjamintrevino325]

If there is any topic not discussed with biblical univocality, it is the topic of the existence and nature of hell.

[@fariesz6786]

what are the words used in other languages for hell anyway? bc the word "hell" itself is Germanic (as are the respective words in other Germanic languages) but i presume other language families, at least in Europe, will use other terms as well and i reckon that can give interesting insight into which traditions might have influenced them.

[@kimmyswan]

Possibly eternal torment or punishment for early Christians IS separation from God or death, even if it’s not conscious. Without a heavenly realm or an eventual kingdom of God on earth, why even bother?

[@scambammer6102]

why do you want to live under an autocrat?

[@stuartkenny3050]

Eternal conscious torment is nowhere in Scripture--how do you define "aionios?" Do the concepts of Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, and Sheol imply eternity? Is the Lake of Fire a place of punishment or purification? How does your scholarship take into account the fact that neither Paul, Clement, Origen, or Gregory of Nyssa believed in everlasting Hell? What do you think of the scholarship of David Bentley Hart and Thomas Talbott? Joseph Smith's father was a Universalist, and it is possible that his ideas informed The Pearl of Great Price. What do you think about the Universalist controversy within Mormonism? I go to a Christian Universalist church. My tradition started in the late 18th and early 19th century. One of our founders, Hosea Ballou, wrote a great book defending universalism--A Treatise On Atonement. What do you think of his work and that of Theodore Parker and George MacDonald?

[@stationarywanderer7910]

Presumably, given the role of the Greeks in shaping Christianity, hell also arose from the idea of Tartarus in the underworld?

[@richardmorris127]

Thanks for the information but it's not clear for me as to what Gehenna is if it is not what you described.?

[@Sewblon]

It was a place where kings supposedly sacrificed their children.

[@Communist-Doge]

When you say the invocation of their name is seen to somehow be beneficial to the deceased, where does that appear?

[@BeerDrinker574]

It’s either lights out for good or we go to a place of peace

[@Yhoshua_B]

This seems to align with the vast majority of NDE's that have been collected over the years.

[@johncunningham739]

Isn't it from Dantes divine or Dantes inferno.

[@Krusador42]

I wonder, after watching some of his videos, is Dan a believer at all?

[@Halophage]

Believer in what?

[@Krusador42]

@@Halophage Believer in the resurrection of Christ.

[@Halophage]

@@Krusador42 He's a Mormon. I don't remember if they hold to that

[@Fluent-in-Fuþark]

I was taught Christian’s got the concept of Hell from the Norse people. “Hel” was a person not a place, she was the goddess of the other world, she guided people to the 9 lakes. Christians were confused as to why the Scandinavian’s had 2 funeral rights. 1. Ship burning ceremony for fallen warriors off to Valhalla or Freyja. And 2. Hel took them to the 9 lakes. Those buried in the ground, where are they going? Too Hel.

[@Alltime2050]

Lately, there's been a trend of apologists claiming that there is no Hell and that you just die and don't get to live forever. They know that almost all Christians were taught they could be sent to Hell. Now, suddenly they can't defend the concept of a deity that's so incredibly evil it would create something like a Hell for an eternal torture chamber in the first place. We live in an amazing time. We are witnessing more people willfully abandoning the superstitions of our ancestors than at any time in human history.

[@scambammer6102]

and immediately glomming on to new superstitions that are almost as bad

[@Alltime2050]

@@scambammer6102What new superstitions?. Most of the flat earthers and alien freaks tend to believe in all that ancient bs as well. You're not one of those morons who think science is a superstition, are you?

[@PasteurizedLettuce]

As a Buddhist, I’ll take it!

[@Alltime2050]

@@PasteurizedLettuceChristians are terrified of dying. The idea that they won't live forever is a fate worse than death to them.

[@mattbefiya]

Which apologists are you talking about exactly?

[@Grayraven777]

What about the Egyptian Lake of Fire, doesn't that pre-date the Greco-Roman period?

[@greenmeadow-m3b]

I would like to see an episode about the Biblical view of killing one's self (I am afraid youtube you flag this if I use the word begining with "s"). Most Church teachings say this is an unforgivable sin. I know there are several cases in the Old Testament (such as Saul falling on his sword on purpose) and of course Judas in the New Testament hanged himself (well, at least in one of the accounts). How did ancient Jews and Christians view the taking of one's own life? (Don't worry, I am not planning anything like this).

[@TechySeven]

I think that would also be good topic to shed some more light on, albeit not the most pleasant (and could likely result in the treading of awkward & sensitive discussions). It would seem that Early Christianity, in the 3rd & 4th Centuries, had at least one sect that actively encouraged self-martyrdom (which was effectively just them Forcing their own Death by acting violently to other people & authorities for no reason except to purposely warrant their quick death). It would stand to reason that, because the Bible never specifically forbade taking one's own life (as far as I recall)... the Catholic Church & Prominent Christian Figureheads eventually Needed to unilaterally condemn it as 'unthinkable'/'unforgivable' (or a "Sin which cannot be repented" as Aquinas put it), because otherwise Christians of the time (especially those living in poverty & hardship) would've kept taking their own lives just to 'Get to Heaven sooner'... and more & more people would start hearing more about "The Religion that makes it members end their own lives" and be dissuaded from joining, and then the Religious Leadership would have seen nothing but continually dwindling tithes & attendance. That's my take on the matter anyway. No idea how the Jewish people approached the issue, though I'd imagine they just didn't have much of a problem with it in either direction (because their beliefs weren't proclaiming 'Eternal Paradise vs Eternal Torment' as the Only Options, so taking one's own life probably wasn't very common and probably wasn't seen as anything but a tragic occurrence with no bearing on any afterlife).

[@BlackDeath920]

Will you do debates one day? I'd love for you to debate James white or micheal brown

[@ErraticFaith]

I wanted to get key retards that too many think are educated (like William Lane Craig) to tackle Dan but they were too scared when they saw his material (lol!) just shows Dan’s facts are starting to tear a hole in the lies.

[@LoveAllAnimals101]

IOW, natural progression of fiction and creative writing.

[@jorgeluizdebritojunior7755]

Does not Daniel 12:2 refer to eternal punishment?

[@greenleopard49]

What about the actual place of Gihenna? I've seen youtubers actually go to the site of Gihenna.

[@adrianvargas1380]

Like Genetically Modified Skeptic :D

[@MtheBarbarian]

Eccl 9:5,6 " The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even the memory of them is lost. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished; never again will they have any share in all that happens under the sun." 1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love." Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." John 5:28,29 "Do not be astonished at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out: those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation/judgment."

[@SciPunk215]

Thank you !

[@brettmajeske3525]

The English word "hell" actually comes from Germanic/Norse mythology, and is frozen. The idea of a burning hell seems more Middle Eastern.

[@jackcimino8822]

Ancient Egyptian mythology had a hell that Osiris sent the unrighteous to before they would be burned to oblivion.

[@Highspergamy]

I think this is likely connected to Achilles heel.... believe it or not. Achis(h?) h -l-l h -l-l in Hebrew I believe has three definitions.. Glory... Flattering praise... or ones foolish actions...

[@catheath2858]

The description of the old Germanic/Norse idea of Hel differs depending on the source. Snorri Sturluson describes it as being a pretty grim place in the Prose Edda. It's apparently full of halls, one of which has such attractive features like a plate called "hunger," a knife called "famine," and a bed called "sick-bed." However, there is an earlier text called Ynglingatal that was written by an actual Heathen (vs a Christian writing about the beliefs of their grandparents). Parts of his work survive because Sturluson quoted them in his work (as he did a number of earlier poets). In Ynglingatal, there's a euphemistic reference to a dead guy getting it on with Hel (which was also the name of the goddess presiding over Hel the realm). This theme is echoed in the later text, Gesta Danorum. Per Hilda Ellis Davidson in "The Road to Hel" though, most of the references to Hel in the primary sources simply refer to either death or the grave, and given the wide variety of funerary practices evidenced in archaeology and the narratives suggested by those finds, people seem to have held a range of beliefs about death and the afterlife. Etymologically, Hel probably derives from words meaning things like "hidden/covered/concealed place." So Hel wasn't automatically a bad place. It was just where the dead went. I actually quite like the stories where the dead inhabit their mounds in much the same way as the living inhabit homes. There's a story of a guy getting buried in a mound next to his friend's mound so they could shout to each other from their mounds, which sounds like an amazing premise for a sitcom 😂. Another theme I like is the one where the newly dead are seen by living people entering a mountain where their ancestors are said to reside and the newly dead being welcomed with a feast. I get on with my family so that last one sounds like goals honestly. Either way, Hel wasn't originally a place of eternal torment.

[@kewakl8891]

I guess that the carrot of paradise/heaven was not a great motivator!

[@glennrobinson7193]

The beast that speaks great blasphemies as spoken in Revelation could be what's behind the pagan hell idea and belief. Because warning the world and congregations of the lie of eternal conscious suffering and torment is in fact evil and highly blasphemous of God.

[@DallyQuinYahu]

We either live forever or perish. There is no eternal punishment. That would be life. The soul that sins dies

[@diogeneslamp8004]

How do you know this with certainty?

[@angreehulk]

🤘

[@k98killer]

I recently heard an interesting hypothesis that the phrase "gnashing of teeth" refers to feral dogs roaming Gehenna to chew on corpses. How plausible is this explanation?

[@maklelan]

Not plausible.

[@k98killer]

@@maklelan do you have a video about the origin and meaning of the phrase? Was it a common Mesopotamian idiom?

[@nathanhaines1721]

Gnashing of teeth conveys the emotion of anger, not physical pain. Before Stephen was stoned, his attackers were grnashing their teeth ...... They were angry and vengeful not in pain from torment.

[@nathanhaines1721]

​@@maklelanGnashing of teeth conveys the emotion of anger, not physical pain. Before Stephen was stoned, his attackers were grnashing their teeth ...... They were angry and vengeful not in pain from torment

[@nathanhaines1721]

@@maklelan Acts 7:54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him

[@truthgiver8286]

I got my concept of hell listening to preachers sermonising but I guess everyone is different.

[@bereanthinking]

Two things; #1, I dig your shirt. #2, There's a reason why proverbs tells us not to lean on our understanding, but instead trust God with all of our heart. I find it ironic that more and more "biblical scholars" are trusting less and less on God and more on worldly wisdom and themselves... Worldly wisdom is worth about as much as a pile of dung these days. That said, the Daniel 12 verse you didn't go into detail about tells us two outcomes to death. "2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt." That last word "contempt" in the Hebrew is dᵊrā'ôn (or to repulse), in a modern sense of the word, shame. Likewise the Isaiah verse you didn't bother quoting comes from Isaiah 66:24. It reads: "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” That corresponds pretty well to what Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48, where He quotes Isaiah while speaking of offenses, not once or twice, but three times. It would be too much to quote all of what He said there, but I'll give you the gist. If your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, cut it off you for it is better to remove that item from your body than to be cast into Hell. Hell is a gnarly place not in this life, but the afterlife and you don't want to wind up there. Repent and believe in what Jesus Christ has done for you, rather than your own self-righteousness. Do that and you don't have to worry about Hell.

[@sweetheartsmisery]

but seen you leaning on your own understanding of the Bible? you’re leaning on the understanding of others that translated the Bible from ancient Hebrew to the current English you’re reading right now. How can you be so sure about everything you’re reading is true and faithful to Gods true word if your source has developed and changed over thousands of years?

[@bereanthinking]

​@@sweetheartsmisery I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that the source of the Bible has "changed over thousands of years"? The Jews had scribes that were experts in making copies of old text and even keeping oral accounts of events in history and their methods are unmatched by any other group of people. The Dead Sea Scrolls for example, date back to 250 - 50BC, and includes the mass majority of the Old Testament. The Old Testament, consists of 39 different books which was written over a period of 1200 years by 20+ authors, which all tell one big cohesive story that includes prophecy (a foretelling of events which were eventually and even today are being fulfilled). The scrolls that made up the books were discovered in the late 1940's early 1950's and when compared to the more modern copies of the same Aramaic and Hebrew text from the 13th century AD, they mach with very few variants. Similarly, the New Testament was written in Greek around 50 - 92AD by at least 8 different authors. Several of those authors were eye witnesses to the life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (as foretold from the Old Testament). There are over 8,000 different copies of the text of the New Testament ranging from fragments from 100-200AD to pages of various books dating to around 200 - 450AD. The text of the Bible that we have today is more complete, accurate, cited, and quoted in history than any other book or collection of books to date. People were quoting from the various books of the New Testament as early as 95AD (Clement of Rome). The copies of manuscripts that we have today were based off of the original manuscripts that were available from the authors themselves, not copies, of copies, of copies, of copies like some modern scholars would have you believe. We know this because of the method the Jews and scribes used to make their copies, along with the lifespan of the material that the originals were written on. The originals would have also been likely quoted from by scholars from that time period such as Ignatius, Clement and Polycarp. There is no reason to believe that the text has been "changed" over thousands of years and the fact that there may be some variants due to human error is minimal when you take into consideration the amount of copies we have available that all say the same thing. Given all of the evidence, if we have to call into question the authenticity of text and accuracy of the Bible, then we need to be also questioning most historical documents. For example, the Gallic Wars by Julius Caesar for which the events took place in 58 BC, but the earliest copy we have is from 980AD (and there are only 9 good copies in existence of that text). Also, The Saga of Eric the Red, it was written in the 13th century and just two copies exist. The author of those two copies is unknown, yet it is where we get most of our information on both Eric's conquests, family life, and information on his son Leif. While human understanding is always subject to error, what appears to be the right choice by us may be the wrong one. The Lord sees the big picture though and He always knows what is best for us. This includes who he chose to write His story, when, and the fact that we can still read it today.

[@sweetheartsmisery]

@@bereanthinkingmy exact point still stands.

[@bereanthinking]

@@sweetheartsmisery Not really sure you had a point to begin with, but ok. Thanks for your detailed and thorough response!

[@sweetheartsmisery]

@@bereanthinkingnp

[@royalcreations3970]

"Gehenna d'nuhra" has always been an Aramaic idiom and never a place people were sent after death. Just to be clear; These are Semitic ideas from their language and culture, not from the Greco-Roman culture.

[@jiyanreksa2370]

book of enoch🤷‍♀️

[@BlackDeath920]

Please do one on Matthew 24:34

[@twelvestitches984]

Much of our current concept of hell comes from near death experiences that people have been having for thousands of years.

[@moonshoes11]

AC/DC

[@moisedaniel1322]

Does hell exist?

[@whatshatnin4572]

There is no evidence of a hell

[@davidm5707]

That's his point. Not biblically, and why believe later things that are made up to keep people in line?

[@GerarddeSouza-yt3fc]

I would never wish to experience Hell, but it is a very comforting as a concept to imagine enemies there.

[@StevenWolf275]

Fucking hell

[@DallyQuinYahu]

Gahenna wasn’t eternal punishment. It was the flames that burnt the dead bodies never ceased. It wasn’t that the dead were living and punished forever.

[@Şytrus-prod]

Can u elaborate

[@georges3799]

Its based on my mother-in-law. And yes, she's beyond death.

[@ritawing1064]

And now we have Homo Naledi, not even a direct ancestor, who also seems to have believed in an afterlife!

[@scambammer6102]

eh needs evidence

[@travcollier]

​@@scambammer6102Seems like at least one population of them ritually disposed of their dead. Could be a sanitation/purity thing I suppose, but it was a lot of effort if that was the reason.

[@pistisproductions77]

This video had 599 likes...........sorry, couldn't help it.

[@omeritokuru]

Lord Jesus is the King❤

[@scout2469]

Christianity is the solution, to a problem that never existed.

[@crimsonmvestro]

Aka man made all of this up… all religions are man made.

[@Şytrus-prod]

Holy Oversimplification. Don’t be scared to Learn some things man

[@thundercatt5265]

From someone very hateful who used fear as a measure of control

[@Mike-qt7jp]

Well Dan has his views on hell but here is what GOD says in HIS Word, the Bible; "In Revelation 14:9-11, “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur…And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night..." And the writer of Hebrews (many say is Paul) said this about eternal punishment, "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." In Matthew 25:46 it says, "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In Matthew 25:41 it says, "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Luke 16:23 says, "And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side." Luke 12:5 says, "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!" If it is to be feared that after death you can be cast into Hell, it obviously means there is torment in hell.

[@mickeydecurious]

IDK when you think of your enemies roasting alive forever is that not more fan fixed and then something a loving merciful god would do 🤔💭 I don't want anybody to go through that, human beings are sick warp twisted individuals and they think that way😢

[@nori_tutor]

Well, that's good and all but have you seen what out eternal God Allah has said in his holy book? 😂

[@diogeneslamp8004]

You missed the whole point of the video. It’s astonishing how you just shut your brain off and ran for a verse to soothe yourself.

[@darrendelaney8161]

kinda crummy one here bud quite a bit myopic as to a biblical exclusive conceptual assertion of an after death not cool place to be. but what ev

[@matthewnitz8367]

That's what his main field of study is so he focuses on it. I'm quite sure he realizes other religions have their own versions of hell.

[@darrendelaney8161]

@@matthewnitz8367 yes agreed, but i would expect something like "hell is not a concept that is exclusive to a particular theology and rather is concept shared across people groups and predates any middle eastern cultures associated with biblical claims by thousands of years." and "magic is not real". lol

[@jesuswarnedusaboutthem7710]

Hell is eternal

[@karldunnegan2689]

So is stupidity, it seems.

[@miguelatkinson]

That is a recent development

[@Limited_Light]

Been there to know, eh?

[@jesuswarnedusaboutthem7710]

@@miguelatkinson Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. I unsubbed from this channel. false teacher

[@funknotik]

have fun

[@jesuswarnedusaboutthem7710]

Word salad

[@miguelatkinson]

What he's literally giving the information in an consistent and accurate manner ?

[@funknotik]

You'd have to really stupid to interpret it that way. Considering he is explaining in exquisite detail lol.

[@TheRideshareSheila]

Quick to copy other creators ain’t ya 😳

[@scambammer6102]

people have been writing about this subject for centuries, probably millennia.