How Disney's Princess and the Frog Has A Problem With Black Males

[@Theravingranter]

Yes sir!!! You hit every point beautifully and not only that but what is it with Disney making Naveen so much whiter in merchandising and in meet-n-greets? I’ve seen some Naveen that look straight up white with black wigs but Tiana always looks good. In some pins, shirts, and other merchandise like dolls he’s been represented as lighter than he is. Most recently there was a big scandal with Funko Pop where they made a Naveen and Tiana two pack and Naveen was wheat bread white. Funko apologized and quickly corrected their mistake but one wonders why the mistake was made in the first place. So even when we get at least a darker skinned prince he gets white washed and the amount of darker skinned or black animated male characters Disney provides in general are few. (I am only counting their movies not subsidiaries or foreign films made under Disney like Valiant or Ghibli films). When people are so desperate to see blackness that they cling to Goofy, friggin Goofy as their representation you know it’s bad. You are right, it feels like men are getting jabbed at like in Velma (Sidenote you may not have realized this but with that shirt you look exactly how I picture a black Shaggy to look lol). Honestly it takes 2 seconds to say Naveen comes from a made up country but it’s based on African places(See Wakanda and Zamunda) He can look the same even it’s just one script change. But we both know Disney won’t change, not yet not until it’s too late. Until then I’m crowning you as the official unofficial Disney Prince. 👑

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you so much! Wanna know something funny? I actually DO realize that I am reminiscent of Shaggy. I bought this shirt literally to dress up as Shaggy for the next Velma review video. I was going to do the review while eating a sub sandwich 🤣. Unfortunately, my 1st Velma review video didn't appear to land very well with my audience, so I stopped after the first episode, but I still had the shirt. I figured, hey, it's green, I can wear it for a Princess and the Frog video, haha!!! It's so funny that you caught on to a detail like my shirt! I think that sometimes companies test the waters on purpose with skin tone changes. Notice how, with Wreck-It-Ralph 2, Disney corrected Tiana's skin tone, hair, and features in such a short amount of time just a couple of months before the film's release. I just have this sneaking suspicion that Disney was experimenting and was already prepared with a second Tiana model in case it caused too much pushback. As for Funko Pop, I didn't know about Naveen. I'll have to look into it. It's a shame that consumers have to fight so hard to ensure their favorite forms of representation, or the characters that they love, remain intact. Thanks again! -JoJo

[@stephh2283]

NAVEEN ISNT BLACK

[@Theravingranter]

@@stephh2283 Yeah…I’m aware 🤨 I never said he was. It’s a shame they didn’t make him black because they wanted him to be from an exotic made up land but like I said they could have used a made up land BASED on Africa and not just a mishmash of Bohemia, Mediterranean, French, Indian, and European.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@stephh2283 Remember this a kids film, so black kids will think Naveen is black. Only adults can notice that Naveen's skin color is lighter than Tiana, that is how subtle the difference is. Fun Fact: the film takes inspiration from the The Frog Princess by (E.D. Baker), where the princess DOES turn into a frog and the princess in that story wasn't even black.

[@stargirIll]

@@stephh2283 girl shut up

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

I am basically 90% white / Caucasian and I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, however you do bring up very valid points especially the thing about black romance and black marriages. In a time where we don't see very many positive father figures or husband figures in that community, they missed the mark wildly with this movie. They could have broken that cycle, and that would have made the way for a whole culture and community to be encouraged to do better and to be better. But it's still the same narrative all over again. Excellent points!!

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you so much! I'm glad there are people all over the rainbow who understand where I am coming from. I believe Disney not only dropped the ball as far as representation and relationships, but they also did this on purpose. Artistically, the movie is gorgeous. I like Tiana (even though I have some complaints about her as well). Thanks for joining the discussion! -JoJo

[@skeinofadifferentcolor2090]

​@@WondrousJoJoI'm glad to be welcomed at the table. 😊

[@orangeslash1667]

@@WondrousJoJo I recommend Green Lantern: Beware My Power (2022), and Entergalactic for black representation.

[@Rakso5809]

I really thought it was bad that they killed Tiana's dad. He should have been in the picture.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Yes! Instead, they thought it'd be better to have her spend the whole movie being hated on, trolled, and antagonized by every other black male in the movie. 😮‍💨

[@williampearson6299]

@@WondrousJoJo Disney doesn't hate black men. Black MEN are not their target demographic, it's little girls. It's not another man's job to build self esteem for another group of man. YOU must build your own company and attract the dollars to uplift your own group. Tyler Perry exists, ask him to make you a Black Prince/ Black King movie

[@WondrousJoJo]

@williampearson6299 Your response comes across to me as both a strawman argument and somewhat gaslight-y. I am not asking non-black men to build up black male self-esteem. I have been saying on this channel that Disney needs to treat all groups equally when it comes to their portrayal and representation. You are free to believe that Disney does not have an agenda. However, the evidence is blatantly obvious. Arab men are not their demographic, yet they were portrayed with equality and respect. Asian men are not their target demographic, yet they were treated with equality and respect. Polynesian men are not their target demographic, yet they were treated with equality, dignity, and respect. While Pocahontas was not the best film, Native American men were still portrayed as good men who support their women and community. As soon as it comes time to do a story that reflects the people of my community, all of a sudden, they switch up. Criticizing Disney on their obvious lack of respect is not asking them to boost my (or any other male of my community) self-esteem. Also, Tyler Perry does not have an animation studio, and even if he did, I would NOT want him to have a hand in any of the stories or productions. He has issues of his own that cause the male characters in his movies to all be problematic in some way. His female characters can be really bad, too. I would love a black animation studio. Just not from him.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@williampearson6299 You are so right, because when I go to stores. Tiana is just as marketable as the female leads. However I don't remember the guys being used for marketing??

[@williampearson6299]

@@WondrousJoJo Would you tell Tyler Perry, a self made billionaire black man with his own studio, to suddenly hire 50% whites to satisfy the DEI requirements? It's disingenuous isn't it? Disney doesn't truly market to boys in the first place, they're trying to turn Star Wars into a female property; their Princess Brand is for GIRLS. Wasn't Hip Hop initially for black people to grow in their space until black men themselves started misrepresenting and alienating their own women? Practice what you preach; white men in suits don't have to make black male characters if the film is not even targeting them but little girls. Be grateful that you have Black Panther.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

I just don’t understand why they couldn’t have used African Folklore for the first black Disney Princess! They could have set it in the times of Mansa Musa, who was the wealthiest monarch to ever live - and a black African monarch! Stories of his vast wealth enthralled the world, including Europe! His journey to Mecca was extraordinarily ostentatious, and he was generous (for the time), too, showering citizens who watched his entourage with gold on his journey to Mecca. Black Africa is full of so many different countries and cultures, all with their own rich histories, architecture, and more - many of which were enormously wealthy in the past, and had rich oral and written histories, beliefs, and fantastical tales. Those should have been the inspiration for the first black Disney Princess movie. And as you stated, there should have been an evil black person and a good black person, just like there is in movies about every race. Or why even make an evil black person at all? Make the evil character a fantasy creature. Ursula is literally purple. The witch in sleeping beauty is green. The evil opponent doesn’t always have to be human (although I do think that humans make for the best villains - Frollo is the most evil, realistic, and complex Disney villain by far). Anyway, my heart hurts for you that you felt so excited, and then so disappointed, as a young boy watching the movie. It makes me sad to think of what you went through. Even I felt that the movie was off back then, but I couldn’t put my finger on why. Anyway, thank you for this video. (Edited to fix some typos 😊)

[@orangeslash1667]

Disney would be too stupid to know about it. The reason The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Tarzan, and Treasure Planet were made is because Victor Hugo, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and Robert Louis Stevenson were huge names. Is there an African writer that can compete with those guys in terms of popularity???? I don't think so.😒😒😒😒

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

@@orangeslash1667 Disney today, of course would be, but this was at the tail-end of the Disney Renaissance. They still had some great minds working for them. And things like the tale of Mansa Musa aren’t exactly obscure. His story enthralled all of Europe for centuries and is literally what led to Europe thinking that Africa was filled with riches that they could exploit! It’s one of the most famous tales of all time, and to this day he is still the richest man (when adjusted for inflation) who ever lived. And if that wasn’t enough, and they truly wanted to pretend that they needed a classic European author’s name attached for the IP, they could have taken a note from their previous ventures. For example, Edmund Selous - great choice, as he was the brother of the more famous Frederick Selous, who was featured in Indiana Jones and inspired the protagonist of the 1885 book (which also takes place in Africa), “King Solomon’s Mines”. While his brother was a big game hunter who supported the Boers, he was a pacifist and ornithologist who hated hunting, and the killing of animals for scientific purposes. Like his brother, he also travelled to Africa and loved it, but unlike his brother, he didn’t travel there to kill people and animals, but to study animals. He wrote children’s and adults books about his time there. I mean, I’m just some random person, not some Disney Renaissance genius, and even I can think of something like this off the top of my head. If they truly needed a European story or author, and truly needed to feature white people in their black princess movie, what better person to lead into the stories than a man who dedicated his life to fighting against everything that his brother and society was doing to the continent? Start out with him arguing with his brother over the topic or something, going to Africa, seeing the desolation wrought by hunters and war, and then somehow find a way to transition into the story of Africa long before all the war and desolation of the natural environment that he is witnessing before his eyes. Fade back to a genuine African fairy tale of an African princess (and a black hero for the little boys - instead of just inserting in some ambiguous ethnic hero). Or even tell the story of Mansa Musa, some Princess he fell in love with, and how Europeans first came to the continent. Of course the history and fairy tales won’t be true to the actual story, no animated Disney tales are…still! You’ll have your well-known classical white author, you’ll have your historical black fairy tales/history, and you’ll you have your black prince and princess. And then at the end of the fairy tale, the fairy tale and the beginning of the story can mix, apartheid and hunting can be held back (as they have been) and children can be shown that change is possible - for humans and the environment. And there you go…you have your empowering black story. You have your main characters who are a black prince and princess, and who are empowered, beautiful humans, not oppressed frogs. You have your famous white 19th century author. And you have your black, African fairy tale. If I can come up with that in a few minutes for a KZbin comment, the people at Disney were more than capable of being that creative. Obviously it has to be fleshed out a bit more and this is just off the top of my head, but you get the point. The people at Disney could have been far more creative, and done the work to create a truly empowered, human black male protagonist and black princess. And I don’t know if you know this, but certain slurs have been used against black people in the past - they have been called subhuman - which is why it is so very disappointing that the first Disney Princess was not human throughout most of the film, and the first black male protagonist was entirely missing. (Edited to fix some typos and add the last paragraph).

[@orangeslash1667]

@@justanotherhappyhumanist8832 Fun Fact: the film takes inspiration from the The Frog Princess by (E.D. Baker), where the princess DOES turn into a frog and the princess in that story wasn't even black. The writers said that they wanted an American setting because they were tired of the European setting. What gave Hunch Back of Nortra Dame, and Treasure Island an advantage, is the fact that there have been many adaptations. Which helped Disney when making their versions. For example Long John Silver's personality is based on Wallace Beery's version from the 1934 adaptation. Mansa Musa doesn't have an adaptation, which hurts it's popularity. Fun Fact: Before Moana, the writers wanted to make an adaptation of the novel (Mort), but they were unable to get the rights. So Moana was chosen because it was an original idea. I wonder if this the reason Disney stoped doing adaptions?????? As to why I couldn't tell the difference, I'm diagnosed with Autism so I struggle to think and behave the same way as everyone else. I think the reason Disney barely cares for blacks is because blacks characters usually don't fit well in Fantasy for European stories. However black characters are a thing in animated super hero and Sci-fi stories. A good examples are Green Lantern Beware My Power and Static Shock.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

@@orangeslash1667 Did you even read my comment? I literally acknowledged within it that the Princess and the Frog is based on a European fairy tale, in which a white princess turns into a frog, and then back into a human again. However, that is completely irrelevant, as I explained throughout my comment. You clearly haven’t read my reply to you at all - hence why the reply that you just sent to me is as meaningless a rebuttal as they come.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

@@orangeslash1667 Also, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt, since you struggle with autism, and I think it’s pretty obvious by now that you grew up in a fairly racist and racially segregated environment. That’s not your fault, but it is something that you should strive to do something about. Many of us grow up in toxic environments, and we have to do better than the people who raised us. You should really stop calling black people “blacks” or “the blacks”. I would also like to point out that Africa is not part of Europe, nor is South America, which also has black people, and black history is rich and vast, and does not need Europe or America to support it. You would once again have understood this had you just read my comment to you before replying, or had you had any understanding of black history…so your point regarding them having to place the black princess movie in segregated 1930s America does not make any logical sense whatsoever. Once again, this is why it is important to read person’s comment that you are replying to before responding to them - and also why it is important to learn about world history, and the history of cultures other than your own. I keep reiterating this, but you would have understood this fact if you had just read my reply to you before replying to me. Finally, if you’re never going to actually read my comments, and are only going to post a bunch of your own back (ones that are filled to the brim with a bunch of red herring fallacies, at that) instead of actually responding to any of the points that I’ve made…well, then there is no point in me conversing with you. Mature adults engage in conversation like this: You make a bunch of points. I address them, and then make points of my own. You address those points, and then make points of your own. I address those points, and then bring up points of my own. And so on, and so forth. If you cannot think of a valid rebuttal to the points that I have made, then the intellectually honest and mature thing to do is to admit that. You should not bring up new points of discourse before you have addressed all of the previous points that the last person has made, especially since they have taken the time to address all of your points. I have addressed all of your points in all of your comments, but you have ignored every single one of mine - in fact, you’ve even reiterated facts that I have stated in my own comment, without addressing the conclusions that I have established based around those facts. Someone who does the things that you have just done is someone who is committing a type of logical fallacy (ie, an inherently illogical form of argument) known as a “red herring fallacy”. In other words, you are choosing to continually argue against points that have not been made, instead of engaging in intellectually honest rules of debate by addressing (by either refuting, agreeing with, or simply acknowledging ignorance of the subject) the arguments previously brought up by the person with whom you are having your discussion. I hope that, after reading this comment (if you do, and I have strong doubts), you will then go back and read the last comment that I wrote to you. I will be happy to reply to you based on the arguments that I made in my last comment, and we can start over. So my suggestion is that you read both of these comments, but base your reply not on this comment, but the last one I sent, since that is the one that you skipped over, and should have initially replied to in the first place. I will be interested to hear your response to the points that I have made, and (now that you have read this comment, and understand how a respectful debate works) any new counter-points, or new ideas, that you may have.

[@LexCATL]

I don’t think you went far enough 😂! For me, I like the movie, but I feel it’s unfair to black people in general because we didn’t get the fantasy that other princesses got to have. This movie was too real, essentially! Super reflective of black people, but in a stereotypical way. For women - stereotypical single mother household, woman focusing on career and working like a mule with no help, a frog for majority of the film, marries a man with no money and no real skills (doesn’t even get the full prince experience cuz his parents cut him off financially), doesn’t marry into a kingdom, and she gets her wish granted of wanting to simply own a business and work 🙄. For men - like you said, only bad black men, no good black men to check the bad black men as if black men don’t hold one another accountable, no money because parents cut him off, partying and drinking money away, other women want him because he looks exotic to them, going after a woman because she has the money he doesn’t, and he’s the reason Tiana turns into a frog in the first place (bringing her down to his level). I really like the movie, but as I got older I wondered why Tiana couldn’t be a typical Disney Princess. Others got to fall in love and enjoy an opulent life, but Tiana’s happily ever after was owning her job. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@SBoundless]

You broke it down perfectly A+. Honestly the story may as well have taken place in “Caledonia” with inspiration from old New Orleans architecture and maybe traditional West African styles (like Ashanti and Hausa). This could’ve been Disney’s Zamunda/Wakanda, but instead this made up country with so much potential was just an excuse so they could have their racially ambiguous prince.

[@DrewAllen2000]

I’ve never sat down and watched this movie, but from clips of the movie, Tiana is a lovely leading lady. As a white guy, She would have my blessing to marry my son over Captain Marvel. Brie Larson? No thanks.

[@magnetoonproductions9541]

Tiana is barely even a human throughout the whole film.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Yes, and that bothers me, too! A lot bothers me with the film. I've thought about doing video sequels on this film to vent it all out, haha. I'm not even sure I really want to invest that much time and energy to only 1 film, though.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

@@WondrousJoJoI would watch them, if you felt like doing them. Hearing your commentary is really interesting, and if the video deserves a more in-depth analysis, and you feel like doing it - you should! 😊

[@orangeslash1667]

@@WondrousJoJo Remember this a kids film, so black kids will think Naveen is black. Only adults can notice that Naveen's skin color is lighter than Tiana, that is how subtle the difference is. Fun Fact: the film takes inspiration from the The Frog Princess by (E.D. Baker), where the princess DOES turn into a frog and the princess in that story wasn't even black.

[@WondrousJoJo]

@orangeslash1667 So you're saying that anyone with remotely brown skin is automatically seen as black? As a kid, I knew Aladdin wasn't Black. Kids aren't dumb.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

@@WondrousJoJo I completely agree. Some kids may be intellectually challenged, but not all are. Most are grossly underestimated by the adults around them. Furthermore, even those that suffer from some form of intellectual impairment do so for a reason, and are still capable of understanding far more than many would think with patience, love, and understanding. It’s crazy how easily some adults forget what they were like as children. Children are a lot smarter than many people realise - and just like adults, they find it enormously frustrating when people patronise them, and underestimate their intelligence.

[@Miraculously_awesome.]

Love this video😊 Can you also talk about how Kida from "Journey to Atlantis" was technically the first black Disney princess😁

[@WondrousJoJo]

I may discuss that! But first, my research would have to bear some substantial evidence to back it up.

[@Theravingranter]

It depends on the definition of black and it varies person by person. If black solely means “ancestry hailing from Africa”(This would have to disinclude some parts of Africa like Egypt) then no Kida is not the first as she is her own culture with multitudes of influences and language. If black simply means “person of darker skin tone” then that is very broad and could include others who would not call themselves black, there are a lot of people in the Latin community who fall under the dark enough to be black but wouldn’t say they are black. For me I would say if it’s hard to tell or isn’t plainly stated then I go off of what their culture was based on. If it is too many continents or places for me to pinpoint I wouldn’t be concrete, like Naveen I’m semi-concrete enough to say he’s Mediterranean but not by my definition of black(African ancestry). We also have to wonder what defines princess? Is it what Disney says which is very loosey-goosey or is it the Websters dictionary and also my own personal basis? Kida is not a princess by either definition, she is a queen so that rules her out of my definition and by Disneys they don’t count you if your movie flopped 🤷‍♀️ unless they do? Raya and Pocahontas are not what I would call great wins but because of diversity they are there. This is why even though I’m a big Disney fan I don’t like their definition and not including characters who would actually bring more diversity. I propose they make a new line of Disney Heroines and Disney heroes, they would make big bucks.

[@Kylee028]

Not me thinking he was black this whole time 🤦🏽‍♀️ granted I only watched the movie when it came out. Love your videos❤

[@WondrousJoJo]

Hahaha!! It's ok, Disney tries to be slick, so I don't blame you. Thank you for your support! It means a lot! 💜

[@WestTexasForce]

Let’s take a poll, who wants to see this guy rip apart other TV Shows and Movies like Black ish, Grown ish, Mixed ish, Wakanda Forever, The Woman King, Martin, Fresh Prince and more.

[@Impossible2nd]

Just found your channel, and I’m really enjoying your discussions! Thank you for your thoughtful, sensitive contribution to media criticism-hope to see your channel continue to grow!

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you so much! I think that at the heart of what we do as creators on here is to just get our message across to others. I am happiest with my work when viewers not only watch a video but also understand the thoughts and feelings that I try to communicate. I love it when viewers can appreciate the work put into it. I pray my channel grows as well.

[@coutrykids7137]

One of my favorite shows for black male representation is a little show called liberty kids. It's a show that follows three children through the American revolution. James a 14yo patriotic journalist, Sarah a 15yo semi loyalist, and Henri a 7yo french boy. Now none of the kids are black but the boys are orphans, Sarah's mom is in England and her dad is lost somewhere in the Ohio territory. These children are in the care of Ben Franklin who is absent at the beginning of the show. Enter Moses, an African man who was a slave, he learned blacksmithing and eventually paid for his freedom and was hired by Franklin. He is the closest thing these children have currently to a Father, and he is amazing, he's stong, wise, level headed, well spoken, brave, has a stong sense of justice and so many other amazing qualities. He's an excellent role model and a wonderful example of a man. I can't remember an episode he wasn't in. There were other black man including Moses' brother, and others who were helping the revolution as spys. I think it approaches slavery in a very good way that makes it easy for kids to understand and overall does a very good job of telling the story of the American revolution from the prospective of the kids for the kids watching. Maybe you could do a video on it? Or just on Moses as a character.

[@Quilly-Sammy]

yeah, as a black girl who grew up with this show, Moses was always like an older brother to me. Although my favorite out of the four was Sarah, Moses was somehow always looming in and giving good advice for everyone and helping everyone feel included. Almost like, the viewers themselves were a part of the team/family. :3

[@ladymary22]

Yeah, Disney let the white fathers of Princesses survive. It doesn't make sense to kill off the Black Father.

[@WondrousJoJo]

I'm honestly not even so much bothered by that, but more so, the fact that there is no black male antithesis to Facilier. All the other black males disrespect her and take advantage of her. Where is the good black guy to balance this out like in EVERY ethnic Disney film?

[@ladymary22]

@@WondrousJoJo I don't know. There are strong male in other Disney tales.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@ladymary22 Is Naveen a middle ground between white and black????

[@renmei2696]

​@@orangeslash1667tbh I'd consider Naveen to be brown, since he has an Indian name and part of the inspiration for Maldonia is the Maldives (a South Asian country)

[@Rose_Bride]

​@@renmei2696This. Naveen isn't even Black.

[@Ajlikestraveling]

Another example of this in Disneys film collection is the newest haunted mansion.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Oh, really? How so?

[@Ajlikestraveling]

@@WondrousJoJo there was a black male character in that film that was not positive, he did have a redemption arc btw. To me at least, the character reflected the flaws of black males (this was for the majority of the film) and didn’t give room to admire the character despite his flaws. The story is quite complex and I may not be grasping in its entirety, but in my opinion the studio and its director focused on the flaws rather than building a even more complex and admirable character that represents black males in a light that considers the black male experience but also how it’s reflected in film and media. I would consider looking into the movie, it does have good qualities and the cast is mainly black and it did address important topics. I would love to see a video on film, though.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Ok, I can put it on the list of movies to eventually get around to. Thanks!

[@X3nophiliac]

i don't think that movie is really a good example. Ben (the black male lead), is a really troubled guy that abuses alcohol and is really depressed after his wife dies. but he isnt a bad person, he ends up befriending and becoming the leader of a group of people after he's basically tricked into helping them. hes honestly a really great guy if you can get past how moody he is bc of his depression. I've seen a lot of white protagonists fall into this trope of "my wife died so i drink too much and I'm rude" trope. ESPEC(IALLY in action movies. Also the main antagonist isn't black so it doesnt really fall under the "bad black antagonist and morally grey black male protagonist" like in Princess and the Frog. Either way i recommend the movie as a funny spooky(but not really scary) movie to watch around Halloween.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

Something the writers didn't anticipate: because white people get more rep, it's very common to make fantasy European kingdoms without a specific influence (not saying it's always good, just common). However, with Naveen, a man of color, they tried to do the same thing, and it didn't hit the same because so many people were curious about his race so the rep could be appreciated. I think he could easily be explained away as an prince from a fictional westernized Indian state and was educated in Europe, explaining his accent. Hopefully Disney does more black movies in the future. I always wished "The Lion King" was done with humans.

[@WondrousJoJo]

This is a great comment! 👍🏽 I never gave much thought about the white end of the spectrum and how because there's so much representation, many people don't really care as much about the specific origins. I think you have a great point, though! I personally never cared about the specifics of European kingdoms... and that may be because growing up (and still today), I've been inundated with so much of European representation that interest in specifics is kind of lost. Disney should have just made a Black prince. It would have been far better. Better representation for my demographic who literally has no representation at all, more representation for the Black diaspora, and finally, there would be an example of Black love... just like the other princesses got for their own respective ethnicities (except Pocahontas 😬). The Lion King as humans would have been epic (a bit risky because of the whole Mufasa/Scar incident), but epic nonetheless. Side note: Nice pfp! I love Yu-Gi-Oh!

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@WondrousJoJo Thanks! I recall Europeans having gripes about Disney (and other American companies) being very generic with European tales that have specific origins, so that always sticks in my mind. As a mixed-race person, I LOVE seeing interracial relationships in the media (Pocahontas, Encanto, Atlantis, The Hunchback of Notre Dame come to mind), but I do agree more rep for black males was missed with TPATF. Disney is more likely to focus on female leads (especially with musicals, the last one with a male lead was "Tarzan," 25 years ago), but hopefully more attention for male leads--including black male leads with follow soon enough. The colorism thing with Mustafa/Scar HOPEFULLY would've been alieviated with humans, but since it was the 90s, maybe not. And thanks! I like your PFP too.

[@WondrousJoJo]

I can totally understand your enjoyment for interracial couples. You probably really appreciated Wish, too, since Asha is the product of an interracial couple. I do think it's problematic that Disney has always had this weird thing with only making white men be romantically interested in women of color. They still do it to this day, like with Asha's parents. Why don't we see a Native American man with an Asian woman, for example? As for Lion King, my main concern is the concept of a black male sibling taking the life of his brother. I fear that may not go over well. Who knows, maybe it would be fine. The colorism might be problematic as well. Either make them both dark-skinned, make them both brown-skinned, or make Mufasa darker-skinned. And thanks! I drew my pfp myself.

[@OpticalSorcerer]

@@WondrousJoJo I hated "Wish" for a lot of reasons, including Asha'a writing. While I love Asha being an interracial person, her poor writing makes her feel like uninteresting rep for POC of Disney princesses in general. Hiro (being halfJapanese and half white) is much better written, imo. I suppose the issue you mention brings to light that Disney is less likely to showcase a man of color in an interracial relarionship, or give him the spotlight in general. Never thought about the fratricide with Mufasa and Scar, though I personally don't see an issue with it since it was inspired by a European play (though I don't recall if the OG characters were brothers). I could definitely see them sharing a similar skintone (not the exact same one, since I feel like even now there isn't much skintone variety for people of the same race in animation).

[@MonsterKidCory]

Naveen always coded to me as North African... Like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia... Something with a strong Mediterranean, Iberian influence. The whole issue with European representation is complex because Disney is grounded in American culture, which typically reduces to "white." European ethnic immigrant communities historically tended to be marginalized and ghettoized until they assimilated into dominant American culture (e.g.: Irish, Italians). So Americans, by in large, have a real problem grappling with the concept of European ethnicities because, to Americans, it's all kind of a vaguely homogeneous proto-American "whiteness." That's the source of my particular angst at Disney remakes, besides them just being disingenuous IP-mining cash grabs that aren't nearly as good as the cartoons. The cartoons are ALREADY kind of flattened out and Americanized as it is, but then they recast the different characters in the live-action version and you get accused of racism for objecting even though THE ACT OF RECASTING THE CHARACTERS IS AMERICAN RACISM AGAINST EUROPEANS. Snow White isn't a "white" story... It's a GERMAN story. Cinderella isn't a "white" story... It's a FRENCH story. Little Mermaid isn't a "white" story... It's a DANISH story, specifically a Danish CHRISTIAN story. These films are acts of American erasure of non-American ethnicities and stories.

[@MonsterKidCory]

Princess and the Frog (which is the last Disney movie I really enjoyed) was "pre-woke" but you could definitely see the shift at Disney. They had to make Naveen a character, because the shallow McGuffin male who isn't a character but a sort of personification of the princess' self-actualization was already a dead trope. So they defaulted to the only other male they know how to write consistently, which is the uncivilized male who must be domesticated by subordinating his ambitions to those of the princess. Okay, fine... But that is exacerbated by them keenly feeling a need to "modernize" the princess and make her a badass girlboss who don't need no man (at least Tianna goes through an actual character arc, which is more than modern strong female characters do). So there was never a chance of them having ANY genuine male hero in this, even a domesticated male ala. Flynn, Kristoff, Beast, Aladdin, etc. Unfortunately, their choice to raceswap the story (which is fine, I love the setting) means that they inadvertently backed themselves into having to reject having a Black male hero.

[@WondrousJoJo]

I agree with you. You can definitely see the shift, in hindsight. It's funny because Tangled came afterward, and I felt it was a good movie that left the "woke" stuff out in regards to the main characters. From what I recall, Flynn could have had a little more depth to him as a male character, and he pretty much is only there to help Rapunzel realize freedom and autonomy. But other than that, I recall the movie being good. Why can't Disney give their male characters a strongly written arc as well? Feminism is supposed to be about equality, not putting women above men. I'd love a new Disney princess movie with 2 strong leads while still having a female-centered story. Beauty and the Beast is a decent example of this. Yes, I do realize he had to be domesticated, but he still had a great arc that resonated with many male viewers. I will say that I would have liked to see Beast have more ambitions beyond becoming human again. Once he's human...then what? We know what Belle wanted for the remainder of her life, and she got to live it. What does Adam wish to do with his life? Naveen got it pretty bad. I get that the movie is about getting what you NEED versus getting what you WANTED. Ok, yes, he went from a spoiled prince to a not-so-spoiled prince... but what else?? We can't say he got hitched because that was never his passion. Dating and relationships were just a pastime to him. His character is literally entirely in service to Tiana's arc. Omg...you're helping me come up with a potential future video idea. Your comments on my videos have gotten me thinking a lot about men in Disney. I know I'm all over the place right now (and I'm sorry for that hahaha) but I'm literally having an epiphany. But to wrap this up so my mind doesn't continue to bounce around, I agree that Tiana got an actual arc, and it's kind of a good one. Kind of. I do hate how they started the "I don't need no man" trend with their first black princess. 🙄 Then they do it again with Asha, except far worse (though she is notably biracial, not just black). Asha, though I think she's likable as a person, is just lacking in her development. I'm not saying a man would make her better (because that isn't true), but if this movie was supposed to be an ode to traditional Disney animation, then the concept of a male love interest should have made a return. That would have been a fantastic opportunity to have the "star boy" be an amazingly-developed male character to compliment a well-developed female character. But Disney threw it all in the trash. And real quick (lol), I think it's BS for Disney to act like a New Orleans setting wouldn't support a black prince, especially when they literally made an entire ethnicity, race, kingdom, and country up just to birth Naveen. Disney could have done all the same with a black male royal. He wouldn't even have to come from Africa. It's actually annoying to me that people think a black prince can only come from Africa in a *fairytale* movie, yet they wholeheartedly accept Naveen with little to no criticism.

[@MonsterKidCory]

@@WondrousJoJo I'm gratified that I got your mind racing! If it helps at all, I wrote an article nigh on 10 years ago for my old Disney blog that gives my thoughts on the male situation. Since KZbin is weird about links, if you Google "Feminism and the Disney Princesses - Part II: Tropes vs. Men in Disney" on the blog Yesterday, Tomorrow, and Fantasy you should find it, if you're interested 😃 But on Naveen... I totally agree that they could have and frankly should have made him Black. But I think the criticism of him would have stood anyway, or even been accentuated ("Of course we get the shiftless, womanizing prince!"), because of how the movie was written to empower the princess.

[@abiliv-lf9tz]

I thought Mama Odie was the antithesis

[@WondrousJoJo]

She COULD be... but there would be some cultural issues with that. It shouldn't be a black woman's responsibility to keep a trouble-making black man in check. It's odd that in every other movie, with every other race, the men step up and handle the male villains. In Princess and the Frog, there is no strong black male to keep Facilier in check. He's free to run rampant with not a black man in sight. Thank GOODNESS Disney didn't write that Mama Odie and Facilier would face off against each other. We don't need him going after 2 black women. I read somewhere that Disney was considering making Mama Odie and Facilier mother and son. I'm GLAD they didn't do that either. That would've further shown the single mom struggling with her child troupe. They already did it to Eudora with James's death early on. I'm glad they didn't repeat it.

[@TheAlliCat]

I felt the same way. Like who is this random dude with an accent?! It was definitely on purpose. They dropped the ball. It's so sad! I love the movie but the Prince still bothers me.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Yup. Disney makes every move and decision with INTENT when it comes to their work. They did this on purpose.

[@kieranstark7213]

*Why I like The Princess and the Frog (even if it could’ve been better so perhaps live-action or animated, just as long as the CGI is actually good or non-existent, maybe it needs a remake to objectively improve upon it as crazy as it sounds as I’m against Hollywood including how they make live-action adaptations, likely if it were made by a better company than Disney, while it doesn’t have the worst representation of people of colour which is to be expected from a Walt Disney Animation Studios films from the 1990s - 2000s as opposed to their remakes like with Aladdin and eventually Lilo & Stitch, take for instance, and the company’s older films, there are so many ideas of what they could do better with this movie that gives it a bad reputation. Maybe not entirely justifiably so, but definitely understandably so)* • Visuals (say what you want about this movie, but this is one of Disney’s best-looking films that really goes to show what they can do with hand-drawn animation that looks like it was done in the 2000s to 2010s) • Music (Never Knew I Needed by Ne-Yo, Down in New Orleans by Randy Newman and Anika Noni-Rose as Tiana in the reprise, When We’re Human, Dig a Little Deeper, people can criticize the story and see how it’s not as good of a representation of black people as ElectricDragon505 would like others to think it is) • Characterization (perhaps WDAS could have done a much better job representing black culture and being much more aware than in Dumbo with that “Roustabouts” that even after the mid-19th century, white people were prejudiced towards black people, but I dunno, I actually really like the LaBouffs in this movie because they treat Tiana who is very attractive inside and out like a friend even though they should probably give Eudora the same respects by treating her better. That and Naveen was shown, like other recent Disney Princes like Adam/The Beast, Aladdin and Flynn Rider learning to become better people over time, and the growing relationships between the Disney Princesses and Disney Princes is what I like about those Disney Princess movies of 1959-2010 compared to the first two Disney Princess movies and, of course, Frozen, where WDAS would have to turn Prince Hans into the King Magnifico of the last decade by turning them into toxic stereotypes of white men after spending the first acts unintentionally making them feel genuine. That and Ray and Louis are underrated sidekicks, and WDAS used to be great at giving us animal sidekicks!) • Pacing (it knows when to go fast to ramp up the intensity of the action, but it also knows when to stop and take a breather whenever slow, emotional moments are called for) • It was directed by RonJohn (the same duo that gave us The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules, Treasure Planet and Moana, now back to ElectricDragon505, who doesn’t seem to be the biggest fan of these guys. Maybe he likes their movies, especially Moana since it was made after the Disney Renaissance where he’s shown to be less grateful for diversity when it’s not shoved in front of our faces than when it is like in Disney’s recent movies when the company had a racist, sexist history even during the olden days. But I don’t know if he’ll ever forgive Ron Clements for talking about why the 2023 Little Mermaid was pointless assuming he’s just saying that because he’d rather Ariel be white than black and as the guy who gave the remake a 6.5 which is one step away from giving it a 7:10 at worst, I expect him to be critical towards the original, as much as he doesn’t deserve to, because while as a Disney movie, he might end up saying great things about it, he might also be critical of Princess Ariel and act like unlike in the 2023 version, she’s a negative stereotype of rich white women, and agree with The Crosby Critic’s bs take on the original version of Prince Eric while giving King Triton and Ursula a pass despite doing bad things as well, it’s like he’d be excited for the upcoming Disney Junior show where Ursula will be portrayed as a good guy, but I digress) • Disney has done so much worse in recent years (seriously. I have a long, exhaustive laundry list of them, plus sometimes, even before the end of the 2000s when they made this movie I have a love-hate relationship with, they made movies that don’t hold up as well as they say like Chicken Little, Peter Pan, etc) So yeah, while I know this movie could’ve been so much better from the standpoint of the story that makes me remember objectively better movies, I do have a softer side for it more than most people because even to this day after my most recent rewatch this decade on Disney+, I did have a lot of fun with its cartoony action, so yeah, maybe I am mixed towards it, but I’d be lying if I said that I hated it.

[@curiosophy4241]

Jojo, well thought of analysis as always

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you so much! I haven't seen anyone else talking about this specific topic. Hopefully, this video will help inspire an important conversation.

[@serafine666]

To be entirely honest, I don't think it occured to the writers to make sure to maintain a good/evil balance across races. "OK, here is one evil black, two evil white men, an evil mixed Latino/black, and one evil Asian woman, I need exactly that many characters of those races that are good" is an unusual thought and like all unusual thoughts, it needs to be taught repeatedly before it sort of settles in and becomes natural.

[@WondrousJoJo]

True. It's just odd to me that Disney kept that formula for all this time, and then suddenly, it happens to go out of the window with Princess and the Frog. Disney was conscious of stereotypes back then and how to only use them for villains/evil characters (like Jafar and Shan Yu). If you think about it, the objective was for the "good/righteous" ethnic character to defeat and dismantle their "bad/negative" ethnic member. How did they all of a sudden stop having that level of awareness for a movie more centered around African Americans/Blacks??

[@serafine666]

@@WondrousJoJo I don't have a very precise memory admittedly, but I can only think of a single heavily mixed Disney movie prior to this one, and with Pocahotas they sort of collectivized the evil and made both sides varying degrees of wrong... and that made things very easy. But with all the other movies they didn't need to think about it. Everyone in Snow White presents as white, everyone in Aladdin presents as Arabic, and so on down the monoracial line and even when they have the vaguely nonwhite gypsies in The Hunchback of Notre Dame, they were the victim group off to a side and the writers didn't need to seriously engage with "did we balance the races of the villainy right?" because the only gypsy character was the love interest. I genuinely read more intellectual laziness in the lack of balance than indifference or malice: they had not had to think about it before The Princess And the Frog so when they were writing the movie, they continued not to think about it. When they were pressured and had specific attention focused on their mistakes they became more careful but an attentive actress and internet warriors can only do so much.

[@bc7911]

I think you have some good points, but I must say that I’ve always seen Naveen as Black. I didn’t know what the animators originally intended, but he seems Haitian or Trinidadian to me.

[@user-bg7nm4ez3i]

As a black women I completely disagree with the whole father dying thing as being intentional by Disney, Disney likes to kill off one or both parents in their films since Snow White, there are only a handful of films that have both parents and only two princess films that have both parents alive, being tangled and brave. Also I do feel like Tiana dad was still prominent in the film, like how Mufasa was in the lion king, his words guided Simba, reminded him of who he was and it’s the same in this movie, Tiana keeps her father’s word in her mind and those words decides what path she takes, what her morals are, which I think is overlooked by you.The restaurant is also a way to show how important her father was, as that was his dream, which she continued to pursue because of how much it meant to him but also now to her. I feel like we also saw the father through her, we knew he was a good black father and character in general by seeing Tiana, she was him and I think it was obviously clear and good representation by Disney.

[@dalialight296]

100% agree! When I was young and did watch this movie, I obviously loved it like any other disney princess movie however more in the sense that it was a black princess. Now as I’ve gotten older and having rewatched the movie, I don’t have much to complain about how it was done. I am still (to this day) Inspired by Tiana’s hardworking, and I apply it to my life. Her father was prominent throughout the whole entire movie. And considering the stereotype that is applied upon black people (No father or a not so good father figure). That was the complete opposite of Tiana’s Father!! It was beautiful how much Tiana learned from her father (Black Man), in which kept the wisdom that her father passed down to her as she had gotten older ("wishing on a star can only take you so far, you've got to help the little guy out by putting in some hard work of your own"). Before I wrap up on this, as I am going on a tangent… I really wouldn’t had changed it anyway. Of course were some representation of black people in the movie insensitive, absolutely. But seeing a disney princess being authentic to herself, and working to achieve her goals (as anyone in the real world has to do, if don’t come from an insanely wealthy family) Then sign me up!! 😊

[@a_rellw5971]

Wow! you took the words out of my mouth.....I thought the prince should have been black too......but we still have to keep in mind making the prince would have been tricky because how could a black man in the 1920s be a prince......but they probably could have thought of something......maybe the son of a church pastor......good video JoJo

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you so much for the compliments!!! Ok, so, if Hollywood can create both Zamunda and Wakanda, then Disney can surely create a fictional kingdom for a black pince. After all, how is it really any different from Naveen and Maldonia, especially considering that his identity and lineage are completely fabricated? African/Black kings/monarchies have actually existed for 1000s of years and still exist today. May you elaborate a little more on why you feel it would be tricky to make the prince a black man? Thanks for watching! -JoJo

[@a_rellw5971]

@@WondrousJoJo thanks for the reply😊😊😊😊👍👍👍.... I will try to explain what I'm talkin about without getting too deep... I was referring to the racial discrimination going on at that time... I don't see how they could have logically made a black man the prince... I know Disney uses historical characters sometimes or characters from fairy tales... the era that the movie took place in would have made a black man as a prince not logical... Even though I would have loved to have seen it... maybe if it had a more fairytale feel to it and took place in Africa then sure... I'm sure they could have thought of something and use some imagination... or maybe they could have just made Naveen black with no explanation.... I think they are working on a live-action version of the movie... maybe we can find people with the same opinion and write some letters to Disney and request that he's black

[@WondrousJoJo]

Ok, I get where you're coming from. Yeah, I'm not really crazy about the movie taking place way too close to the modern day. It insinuates that black people didn't have a rich history and culture for hundreds to thousands of years prior to being brought to America. It's actually quite insulting when you really think about it. 😅 I really wanted Tiana to have a true fairytale story that took place in some slightly unambiguous distant time period like the other heroines got. But no... they did 1920s. 😮‍💨

[@a_rellw5971]

@@WondrousJoJo I agree....💯✔ maybe in the live-action version that they're working with it might be better and maybe Naveen might be black hopefully... after all this is a democracy so we have a voice... we should contact Disney and let them know we want a black Prince

[@WondrousJoJo]

@a_rellw5971 I don't know... at this point, I feel like Disney would do something shady to the character if they were to finally do it. He'd have some purposefully added drawback, like he'd probably be mixed or more racially ambiguous. Or he'd die... Or maybe he would have to share his power and authority with another character(s) instead of being absolute. Disney would find some kind of measure to knock him down a notch in comparison to the other powerful men of other races in Disney.

[@ravenderose]

You know what looking back….that had a huge impact on who I viewed as attractive as a child. I grew up without a dad in the suburbs so I I grew up crushing on mostly white men. I actually had a huge crush on Naveen if he had been a dark skin black man and if both him and Tiana were both portrayed as humans during most of the film I probably would look up to black men nowadays but because it almost looks like Tiana has to go for a lighter skin guy to get what she wants which is financial freedom and her restaurant. It’s very interesting

[@WondrousJoJo]

Thank you for sharing. That's a very interesting story. During the time Tiana's story takes place (the early 1900s to the 1920s), black folks were actually sticking together to try to build wealth and run businesses. During the late 1800s and the early 1900s, "Black Wallstreet" was a thriving and super successful Black-ran community. There were 30 grocery stores, 21 churches, 21 restaurants, two movie theaters, schools, libraries, law offices, a hospital, a bank, a post office, and a bus system. In 1921, you-know-who's community got jealous and began burning it down and destroying everything in what is known as the Tulsa Race Massacre. I say all that to say that during that time specifically, there actually were several financially thriving dark-skinned people. While Disney has told some wonderful stories throughout their lifespan, they're still a very shady company that pushes slick narratives, agendas, and themes in their productions.

[@zacbob1149]

I really enjoyed the film, and I still do to this day, but I fully understand why you’re disappointed with it. I’ve seen a lot of comments saying that it didn’t make sense that the dad was killed of, the character who could’ve been the perfect male antithesis to Dr Facilier, but I just thought it was life e.g. he had a medical problem or something happened to him off screen to cause him to die. Upon thinking about it, it supports the other comments of the video saying the film was too real, and how it wasn’t fantastical enough. I neither agree nor disagree with how real the film is. I’m now realising there are a few opportunities that could’ve made it so much more refreshing yet natural, as well as adding more fantastical elements to it, but then again, I liked the fact that it’s a different style to the original fantastical Disney Princess stories we’re used to. However, I still fully respect how Prince Naveen, in order to be the another perfect male antithesis to Dr Facilier, should have been black, just like with the white male characters and their roles in the story. Overall I’m glad you made this video because even though I still enjoy the film, I’m so interested and happy to hear a different take on the movie, your opinion is very valid and refreshing. I also just want to say I’m relieved you pointed out how you can be civil when discussing the races of characters in films and tv shows and not be labelled as a hater or a bigot! 😂❤

[@MobbinMic]

Exactly! I've been telling people for years, but they don't wanna have to think about it. As a Black American man, I thought the 1st Black American prince was a no-brainer. People also said I'm just against interracial relations, even though I'm biracial! Naveen just wasn't that great of a character/prince and was highly unnecessary. I grew up during the Disney Renaissance time, so I was excited to hear about this movie at the time, especially as a Black American with strong roots in Louisiana. But this movie not only didn't have a Black prince, but it portrayed Black American men horribly, gave the animals most of the screen time, and made racism seem like it was some "misunderstanding" between Black and White folks. Which brings me to my main point - Why does the media always make racism/slavery a main part of our stories when there's much more to us!? It wouldn't be that hard to make a fairytale princess movie based on the rich culture Black Americans brought to Louisiana. I could make one up off the top of my head. But no, they always want us to feel lesser and make certain people more comfortable... This movie basically gives a message of "A good Black man only comes once in a blue moon, so Black woman need to work extra hard by themselves if they want to get anywhere. There were never any 'Black' Kings or Queens unless maybe they got married into a royal family of another country somehow... "

[@WondrousJoJo]

I think where Disney may have gone wrong with the setting was making it an American tale. Unfortunately, slavery/racism are a part of American Black history/experience. It seems they wanted a female lead who rose above all obstacles and struggles, which additionally include sexism and classism. I feel they went wrong with this "American" decision because it roots Tiana way too much in reality instead of a warm fairy tale with endless possibilities. I, too, despise the Hollywood cop-out of incorporating the same tired troupes onto Black characters when, yes, there is so much more to Black history and people. Could Disney have shown a movie that was immersed in New Orleans culture without the "isms" that Black folks face?... yeah, they could have. But I think part of the issue is that Disney was also trying to incorporate how *they THINK* Black people view themselves, which is rooted in identifying with victimhood. While we are victims of a system, that doesn't mean we have a victim mindset. Those are 2 different things. I truly believe that media will only show Black stories as long as they aren't _too_ empowering. They refuse to show Black Love being a driving force that conquers all. They refuse to support the Black family that endures and prevails. They refuse to promote the *continuation* of the Black seed continuing the legacy. You already know they will never show a Black king in power who is competent, strong, benevolent, and respected by all; a faithful man who stands beside his amazing Black queen. And you're right; part of it is definitely because they want to make a certain audience feel more comfortable. If they have to tiptoe like that for certain fragile audience members, you KNOW society is not where we should be and that we are still very much behind. Hollywood butchers the Black image every chance they get. Single mothers, the overrepresentation of interracial couples, the overrepresentation of biracial leads in comparison to mono-racial Black leads, and the fact that Disney will only make a black male the lead if he is biracial and gay. As I've stated in other videos, I have no issue with a gay biracial male lead... but when that is the ONLY "Black" male lead representation in Disney's "vault," there's a problem, especially since Disney has been around for over 100 years now, and we're STILL having this issue. Strange World came out only a couple of years ago, and to date, there is still no heterosexual Black male lead or prince/king. And don't get me started again on how awful Black American men were portrayed in that film. The ANIMALS in the film were more helpful to Tiana than any living Black male in that film. Tiana literally had NO help from the men of her community. That sends a POOR message that 'the Black woman must/will struggle all alone with no help unless it is from another race (or species), and that the men of her community are no good to anyone, unless they're dead'. 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ I swear I could do a WHOLE part 2 about this film. I have so many more issues with the film, but I chose the issue about Black men because I didn't see anyone specifically addressing this problem. I wish more people watched my video. This was a topic I had really hoped would spread and inspire conversation.

[@MobbinMic]

@@WondrousJoJo Well said. Yes, we want reality if there's a movie or documentary meant to shed light on our history. But NOBODY watches Disney movies for historical lessons. I mean, Pocahontas was atrocious in that field and instead of shedding light on what really happened happened, they made up a story based on a real figure, but changed American history to please that same demographic... But princess and the frog is the other side of the coin. It's a made up fairy tale, but they always have to make any "Black" character play the same roles involving racism, which is not what anyone is asking for when taking their kids to see a family friendly movie that finally involves their people as a main character... And your right, being victims and always having a victim mindset are different because a victim with a strong mindset can push through the obstacles. Everything else you said I agree with. There's a reason Black Panther got so much attention. It had its problems, but just having a "Black" king, and a nation of people who looked like us, was ground breaking. However, there's still an issue with the media not wanting to have representation of Black kings because they don't want to empower us. On top of that, they get huge amounts of complaints from the masses of White/Asian people who don't want to see that. What they will do is show struggling Black women because they know it'll divide us. This is why many young Black American women have grown up with the mindset that Black American men aren't worthy of being leaders because they're lazy and don't work hard like Black American women... Princess and the frog is just a kids movie, but behind the scenes, it shows the layers of racism that are still remain strong in this country. I also wish your video got more views, but since the movie is about the "struggling Black women"and didn't do as well as it could've, not a lot of people have thought about these topics concerning Black Americans as a whole.

[@SBoundless]

@@WondrousJoJoDamn you’re cooking. I would definitely watch a part 2.

[@JukuduB]

When this movie came out, I already knew it was going to be a mess. I told my boyfriend (at the time) that i wouldn't go with him and his young daughter to go see the movie. I tried to explain to him how it was disrespectful to brothers and how it didn't reflect a healthy relationship. It didnt even show his family dynamic (his parents have been together for decade's)! He insisted on going instead of explaining this contradiction to his child.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Hello! Fun fact: I didn't watch it on release, either. My mom and sister went to go see it, but I didn't want to go with them. I'm not sure why I didn't want to, but something in me just didn't want to. It wasn't until about 2 years later when I happened to see the movie being sold in stores and bought it to add to my movie collection. At first, I thought the movie was ok, but something always felt off to me, besides the obvious lack of a black male prince. It wasn't until I was a bit older and watched it again.... and I realized that it was a total slap in the face to black men. Now, many more years later, and many more Disney productions later, it is glaringly obvious to me that Disney has never supported the black male image, and has actually gone out of their way to disrespect it.

[@WeAreTheTwintails]

I thought they were trying to highlight interracial relationships as being desirable.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Were Pocahontas, Kida, and Esmeralda all not enough? We even have Asha now, who is the product of an interracial relationship. Think about it; why do only the women of color get the interracial treatment? Disney knows what they're doing. Historically, they have never put a white woman with a man of color as the prominent couple, yet they're fine with the other way around.

[@WeAreTheTwintails]

@@WondrousJoJo That is interesting. I definitely think as more time goes on, things will start to go backwards. Too many upset people, too many failed films. I don't believe that representation will get better for a long time.

[@twocanplay7976]

I enjoyed this video a lot, it's been fun listening to your commentary on postmodern Disney movies. I really enjoyed Tiana herself. I loved her design, and I love that similarly to Mulan (my favorite Disney "princess"), there is actually nothing inherently Royal about her. I actually liked that she was an average woman without any super special powers or bloodline. I also loved her background of having a loving father, who fought for his beliefs, and whom she looked up too. That's about all I liked of it though. One of my least favorite things about the movie was the setting and time period. I really don't believe there was a Disney friendly way to portray a black woman protagonist in post-Civil War Louisiana. This might be especially a personal preference because I'm really not a fan of the US Southeast in general, and would have much MUCH preferred an animated movie centering around an African legend (like what they did with Mulan). I understand that there's a degree of suspension of disbelief, but that was just too tall of an order to accept. Even in Mulan it was understood that she would be killed on the spot if they knew she was a woman. Her status was thrown in her face again and again, and it felt like they tried to soften/disregard that sort of harshness in TPatF, but given real history, it really didn't work. Again, Disney should have used an African setting from an African tale. There were other things I didn't like, such as the whole spending the entire movie as a frog deal, and the villain. Couldn't take him seriously, which is unfortunate considering the fact that villains are usually what drive the entire plot forward. Didn't like his design or the lime green/purple combo he had going on, but I guess those are NOLA colors, so more personal preference. TLDR I really liked Tiana, but not much else about the movie. The setting and time period were especially egregious. Those alone made the movie unenjoyable for me.

[@WondrousJoJo]

LOL "TLDR". I read the entire thing, with pleasure! For starters, thank you for taking the time to go through my videos and hear me out on various subjects. I've been seeing more of your comments within the past day, and I appreciate it. I agree that it probably would have been better if the movie had taken place somewhere in Africa. It's an entire continent. Heck, they could have even done Ancient Egypt! I'd LOVE to see indigenous Black Egyptians represented, and I despise how history has been altered and hidden when it comes to Ancient Egypt. This is a huge reason why I love Dreamworks "The Prince of Egypt." They KNEW the Ancient Egyptians were phenotypically Black African, and they portrayed them more accurately. It's not too late, Disney could always be the first to tell an animated tale that specifically centers around a black prince/king and a black princess/queen that have an adventure and fall in love with one another while simultaneously taking down an amazing villian/villainess and restoring whatever balance was disrupted in the land. Tiana herself, I like her a lot. I think she's gorgeous, and I love that she idolizes her black father (who really should have remained present in the movie), and she also gets along with her mother. I also love that she's the first American princess, and I personally don't see Disney doing a 2nd American princess. The reality of 1920s American race relations in that film was definitely suspended. I felt like Disney should have either gone all-in (within reason) with it or not had it there at all. For example, there definitely should not be N-word usage (lol), nor should black bodies be swinging from trees, but I feel it should have been a little stronger than "A woman of your... *background* --- you're better off where you're at." Like... ok, I get that it was supposed to be subtle, but that is just TOO subtle. It should have been more like The Hunchback of Notre Dame, where the prejudice was FAR more obvious. Even Pocahontas with the "Savages" song got it right (even though there were still some serious issues with that film). But, for some reason, Disney decided to be super subtle with American racism. And yes, Tiana, being a frog most of the time, was super annoying. Facilier, I thought he was entertaining, but not super compelling. I had to look to the Disney Wiki to even fully understand his motives (which are kind of stupid once I fully understood). He wants Eli's fortune to ultimately control New Orleans. Like... ok... and then what, lol?? Honestly, I could have made parts 2 and 3 to this video about all of my issues with the film and its problems. But I don't think I'll go through with it.

[@twocanplay7976]

Africa is an absolute behemoth of a continent with a no doubt endless supply of rich folklore to choose from. Why Disney didn't just... pick any one of them is beyond me. I remember visiting the African exhibit in the Smithsonian last I went and wow, what a treasure trove of inspiration they could have used. And that was just from a museum exhibit! These corporations really love seizing defeat from the jaws of victory. Ancient Egypt would have been cool, but it was already done with Prince of Egypt which was my favorite animated movie of all time, and imo was one of the best movies ever made period. Not saying different studios can't make a movie in similar settings, but I think PoE is hard to top 😂 But Disney could have made an equally compelling movie, if they actually tried. And wow, TPatF was 1920s? Damn my memory is failing me because I thought I remembered seeing her father wearing a Union Army uniform in his picture. But it's been a while since I watched it. Speaking on that time period and setting again, I'm just now remembering that Disney IS capable of showing respect for American historical events because they made Remember the Titans. Another one of my favorites, and I don't even like American football or sports films. They got the harsh message of racial segregation and injustice across just fine in that movie, even if it took place in a later decade. Disney knows how to remain faithful to history, they just actively chose not to in TPatF. I agree with your point, they either should have gone full in like other movies, or not done it at all. You can't half-ass something like that. They tried, and it was quite frankly insulting. LOL at having to look to the wiki to make sense of Facilier's motives haha. I don't remember much about him, but Are You Ready was pretty catchy and I thought his singing was great. He just could have been a better villain is all. Here's to hoping that not all is lost with Disney movies, and that they can turn this boat around and actually make a good animated film featuring a black princess.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@twocanplay7976 The film is based on a German fairy tale, but the directors confirmed that they wanted an American setting. So they chose New Orleans because it was John Lasseter's favorite. The problem isn't racism, but more extreme bias of setting.

[@Littlevolfee]

1. She is not a real princess 2. Most of the time she is a frog 3. Working is her dream 4. Her prince had many women before her

[@Theravingranter]

Alright let’s see if I can tackle these points, I’ll save point 2 for a different note since it’s a longer answer. Point One.) What do you mean by “real princess”? Do you mean not born a princess? Because that does not define one as a princess(I have made a video list of what I consider to be a princess and it’s either born or married into.) She married a prince, thus making her a princess and his parents look old maybe in the show she will eventually become queen of Maldonia. That’s a massive deal, it’s hard for me to think of many black queens in all the animated films I’ve seen. 3. So I take it these are supposed to be issues you have with the character in which case why is it bad that working is her dream? Everyone that I’ve seen has highly praised that as to them all the other princesses have had either vague dreams or unrealistic in the modern lens. While all the leading ladies are very goal oriented and most work hard to get their goals whether in the original film or sequels, Tiana was really the first to say she wanted her own business to make not only herself proud and community but to honor her daddy. This is incredibly ambitious, and thus people of all colors can relate and say hey I’m Tiana too, I work myself to the bone with multiple jobs trying to save up to live my dream and she gets that dream- plus a bonus being a princess and having a prince husband she loves. Note here to at she slightly changed her dream, she wants her resteraunt but she wants love too. Both are admirable. Point 4.) What is wrong with Naveen having been with other women? It is not seen as a good thing by Tianas standards ( She calls him philandering). Even if she didn’t care why should we care? We actually don’t know the romantic history of most of the other Disney princes, we can just assume. In supplementary material or theories that are hidden within the story itself some of these princes are also popular with the ladies. Phoebus, though not a prince, was changed into a bro in the Disney approved musical and he much wanted to have many pleasures with different ladies until meeting Esmeralda and Aladdin well it’s very slight but the harem girls reject him in their song. This has become a joke in the Disney community that they are ladies of the night and he is poor that’s why they don’t want him, which means he’s at least…tried? Point 2.) I am now realizing all my points were long lol but while Tiana spends a lot of time as a frog all of her merchandising is in human form. Do I think it’s fair that she is a frog? Eh depends on your point of view. She is not the only princess of color and all of them stayed human through their movies. (Raya, Moana, Pocahontas, Jasmine, Mulan) Disney does this weird thing where they say “You need to change your outlook…so let’s change how you look.” And their character turns into something, like an animal or spirit or changes size. So when Tiana changes it is to change her perspective, same with Naveen and because if only he was a frog she would have to fall in love with a literal animal as a human which would be…well weird. We’d have another Bee Movie. The TLDR: Tiana is a princess, Tiana needs to be a frog to learn how to have fun and to easier fall in love with a frog, Tiana is looked upon as inspirational for her work hard ethic, and it is okay that Naveen was a player before he decided he needed to settle down.

[@Littlevolfee]

@@Theravingranter To understand what I am writing about, you have to look at the film through the eyes of a girl. When I watched this movie, there were things that I didn't like. Compared to Ariel - she is a princess by birth, she is herself all the time, her prince has only fallen in love with her. After marriage, she does not work in a bar on the island. In real life it's different and hard work counts, but this is a fairy tale for girls. I don't like this story. I'm still waiting for a real black princess.

[@WondrousJoJo]

Hello. I definitely have other reservations and complaints about the film, but the poor representation of my demographic is what hit me the hardest. Her being a frog for most of the film is definitely disappointing, though. As a lover of traditional animation, I wanted to see Tiana expressing herself through the drawings. I didn't want to see a frog fighting for her life and finding herself, all in a bayou, lol.

[@bravestraven4650]

I feel like you guys are just complaining about this movie because it’s not what you wanted. In the end, it was still a really good movie. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have those other stories that positively represent black people. But the princess and the frog was pretty positive to me. And I don’t see anyone talking about Prince Adam (The Beast) who wasn’t even human for most of the movie. At least Tiana was human for a longer time then he was.

[@WondrousJoJo]

The reason the comparison that you made doesn't really work is because Prince Adam is not the leading lady of the film, nor is he another iconic symbol of the Disney princess line. Tiana is.

[@daytimefern8895]

Wait I thought it was very clear and obvious that prince naveen was not black, I thought he was indian because that what he looked like.

[@justanotherhappyhumanist8832]

This makes me so sad for your younger self. 😢 EDIT: And all little boys, now men, who felt like you.

[@AlternativeBIackBarbie]

Felix and Peppa? Their both hispanic but Felix is mixed with black and Peppa obviously has white heritage

[@CraftyVegan]

I remember when this movie came out. Me and my sister in law were watching it for the first time with our toddlers and at the end of it she looked at me and I could just **tell** that she was mad… and she started doing a little role play of Disney execs like “These white ass Disney mfs really sat down and tried really hard to make a black movie… they were probably in the board room like ‘do we know any black people timothy?’ ‘Is NeYo black Jeffrey?’ ‘Oh! I think so.. let me see if we can get NeYo to do a song for our movie. Good call Steven!’”

[@WondrousJoJo]

😆 Well, at the time, NeYo was still relevant. I personally wouldn't have chosen him, though. I would have chosen maybe John Legend or Fantasia. Truthfully, I'm surprised Beyoncé didn't get that slot.

[@CraftyVegan]

@@WondrousJoJo Beyoncé would have killed it! As a side note, for all the garbage the movie got, I’m really glad my nieces got a melanated Disney princess before they were old enough to know better 😮‍💨 Side note: there’s a lovely shop called younicornkidz where they have black unicorns with natural hair ^_^ My neiblings were excited to see ponies that had their same hair and skin tones

[@bluemark25]

When I saw the movie I was actually really confused why they didn't make Naveen black. In terms of you wanting a good representation of black men, it was probably for the best that he wasn't black. He was a terrible prince and a terrible match for Tiana. I'm supposed to believe that a playboy loafer made a complete 180 from how he was his whole life? I don't believe it and Tiana deserved better. It completely killed the movie for me, that and the fact that they were frogs most the time. On a side note, Dr. Facilier is my second favorite Disney villain, he is just a cool.

[@danilovonsquawk572]

Prince Naveen is not Black? I thought he was……

[@WondrousJoJo]

Unfortunately, he's not Black.

[@nicholasemiranda3057]

Yeah

[@nicholasemiranda3057]

True I never liked this movie years later I still don’t

[@WondrousJoJo]

Haha, thanks! I'm glad other people can see the issues. That's why I made the video... to raise awareness.

[@entertainmenttelevision9257]

This teaches a lesso to come together and build our own stuff and stop depending on the enemies and oppressors to project our dreams and fantasy and images… We must pool our resources and build with God being our help and in the forefront. Stop depending on those so called people to bless us.

[@WondrousJoJo]

I would love to see a competitive black-owned animation studio/company that focused on making wholesome movies that all people can enjoy that tell the stories of well-developed black characters.

[@entertainmenttelevision9257]

@@WondrousJoJo Me too bro. Its not impossible to do it.. The tools are out there to buy. Create locations in the States then expand to the Caribbean and Africa.. We hvae to come together with the same frame of mindset.

[@EpicFableBean]

oh jesus talk about over thinking it

[@Grace-g8k2x]

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