How do elite skiers get forward in the moguls?

Tom Gellie breaks down some of the common ways people attempt to get forward in the moguls. People can try for themselves the various movement patterns that are less efficient in skiing moguls. Then he presents his ideas on how he sees elite skiers get forward in the bumps.
For more, visit: bigpictureskiing.com/​ and scroll down to explore Tom's "free lessons" section.

[@georgeprivon-qt3cjaa843]

Great stuff Tom! Fits in nicely with your coaching last month at TC.

[@MadelnMachines]

This is fascinating. Trainers sometimes tell me to get forward in the bumps but they don't say how. This is how! I've always wondered how you force the ski tips down like that. Thanks

[@gregorydavid5894]

Thanks Tom! I was a late starter and I am 67 now, so the athleticism of these guys is well beyond me, but to have the movement broken down into basic components like this has given me some clarity which will really help my technique. I ski bumps a lot now because I realized it's the final piece of the puzzle for skiing very well in all conditions. I started skiing the high line and midpoints of the bumps to slow them down, the zipper line has been out of reach except on the gentlest line, but since I have been focusing pulling my shins back ( 2 seasons) I have progressed rapidly and am able to ski the zipper line more. Seeing the way the torso moves in relation to the pull back is really useful! By the way Tom, I would collapse on the floor doing what you are doing because my knee joints, ligaments and muscle are no longer capable of that, but I can still ski bumps pretty well, so for aging skiers - there is hope for skiing elegantly in all conditions. It has definitely helped me develop the punchy quick turns that are needed to ski straight down the fall line in steep trees in pow and the chop.

[@koitaki]

Good points Gregory, and yeah, you can generally make do with what you got. (eg. Django Reinhardt & his two fingers on the guitar).

[@utahmogul]

It's important to not over think it. Important to subconsciously know what is going on but when it comes to actual bump skiing. Be light and loose and let the bump come to you. The mogul does most the work.

[@matthewburnford8395]

This is a super helpful video Tom and a really excellent teaching aid. Ski instructors describe actions using words but words on their own are often just words - you need to assign words to visual actions. You have captured that really well and helped crystallise a really clear understating of what is actually going on.

[@johnmoore1609]

Just came across your stuff very recently and I have to say I think you're really onto something with your focus on fine-tuning body position, something which doesn't seem to be given nearly enough thought in most ski instruction. As a wannabe good skier, unless you know where your centre of gravity is and how to effectively move it to where it needs to be, you're fighting a losing battle before you even get onto the other niceties of ski instruction. Great use of video analysis, too.

[@jimbosaul3996]

thnx for taking the time todo this. looks like you really nailed the analysis especially when you line up the pros and you in kitchen. makes sense. now, can i do any of it it the next issue !@ probably nup. but i'll try !

[@davidmalits5946]

The best video I saw about the subject! Thanks!

[@driftingsnow]

Wonderful. Thank you, Tom

[@user-cv1fx7se3r]

wow! This is a perfect explanation! 🙏🏻 thanks

[@user-qz8cu3li4z]

Great brake down at the kitchen. Thank you

[@kambizmerati1119]

One of the most awesome mogul analytics I ve ever watched.

[@jimbryant007]

This is Gold. Thank you Tom - very thorough

[@ttruong225]

This is the first mogul video i've seen that focuses on technique from a side angle as opposed the front or back! Thanks Tom! Any chance you could make one about hip rotation from mogul to mogul?

[@Wootiify]

this helped me a lot to get to the next level. THANK YOU

[@brunojanik]

You guys are perfect This video is the best of the bests

[@dtna]

This makes perfect sense to me. People used to tell me to not sit back, get your feet forward! And never told me how. I thought that they meant to just keep my weight on the tongues of my boots. I started skiing in '72, loved the bumps but always started to blow out in steep moguls. Thank you.

[@jamies1196]

As always great breakdown on the biomechanics and body position analysis. When I teach bump skiing I use the dolphin turn to simulate this movement and a teeter-totter movement of pushing down with the toes to get the tips driving down while moving the hips forward. I like your side view showing the feet and hip action to get forward and recentre at the tipping point. Of course timing these moves is the tricky part.

[@jjanderson8235]

The dolphin is a useful animal. :)

[@darrensmith9143]

Excellent excellent excellent. Thank you for this.

[@bogdangrytchuk4295]

Great kitchen class Tom 👍many thanks

[@Motoch3]

Great analysis! Seems like you could practice on a bosu ball which would give you a rolling action of going over the mogal.

[@youngyuan181]

Very helpful. Thank you!

[@dennisgunn468]

Lovely really helpful perspective. I am 62 and really only started working on mogul technique methodically about 3 years ago. I have made a lot of progress since then but the athleticism of these guys is not likely in the cards for me still I think this is very informative.

[@kevinray3240]

Nice interpretation and breakdown, and good kitchen exercises.

[@Bigpictureskiing]

Thank you!

[@gu5907]

The movement of the leg is what we do in carving for fore-aft balance as well, but the hips don't have to be as aggressively thrust forward to get quick snow contact again because the impact of constant terrain at pressure release is less for carving than bumps, but the ankle and leg movement to get the skis under the hips/center of mass is exactly the same.

[@jaycereed9928]

i guess im asking the wrong place but does any of you know a tool to log back into an instagram account..? I somehow lost the password. I would appreciate any help you can give me.

[@pauljamir6025]

@Jayce Reed Instablaster =)

[@jaycereed9928]

@Paul Jamir Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@jaycereed9928]

@Paul Jamir It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thanks so much, you really help me out :D

[@pauljamir6025]

@Jayce Reed Happy to help :D

[@TheJeffatan]

Gold...Thanks. Tom ..may I ask you a question? You mentioned including forefoot roll..that we should strive to thrush the hip somewhat inline with the bench top at the same time. Is that bench top line the slope in general or the downhill side of the bump we are cresting?

[@jjanderson8235]

Also, poles (handles) out front within peripheral eye prompt forward attitude w. 'quiet' upper body (shoulders and forearms). Great kitchen to slope analysis, Kudos!

[@rb02909]

Thanks for this - was totally new to me. Now I "just" have to put it into praxis... 🙂

[@hopnglo680]

Excellent. Thank you.

[@jamesd5969]

Find a nice long steep sand dune and you can practice this movement in real time with poles. Mosley’s dry land training which he got from the Russians gave us a great example. The sand dune is a lot softer. I like to set up a camera on a tripod to work on knees, hands, and various details.

[@wladimirs7166]

The best video about mogul skiing I've ever seen. Thanks! Самое крутое видео о могуле. Спасибо.

[@Artiscrafty]

Love your approach.

[@Artiscrafty]

Search mogul demo. By mogul mutt. That’s me..

[@i_gar]

Thank you!!!

[@MorganBrown]

Cool. Seems like the Skia trainers encourage the pressure on the balls of the feet. I’ll have to work on that this fall

[@PR-rh9qm]

Seems like I've been watching a lot of videos. This one is helpful, though like some others here I am of an age (67) and condition (+10 lbs over ideal) where elite, zipper-line skiing is out of the question! Still, it seems reasonable that pushing hips forward will help draw skis relatively backwards and help me keep speed down. I can't wait to try it. @PatGilbert: thanks for the tip about the mogul book. Just ordered it. Maybe that will be as helpful as all these videos.

[@eagsalazar]

Their feet do of course move back under their butts during extension, and thinking about doing that might be useful when initially learning to ski moguls, but there is a huge element you aren't mentioning. At higher speeds on bigger, more rutty moguls with steep faces and backs, pulling your feedback back, pressing your hips forward, and pushing down with the bridge of the foot is way too slow and the timing is virtually impossible. You will inevitably either be late and you won't have sufficient tip pressure to be fluid and carve down the back of the bump or you will be early and you will push yourself way into the backseat. Even with perfect timing, at speed you simply can't do those manual movement fast enough to stay glued to the back of the moguls. Japanese mogul skiers really embraced this in the past and it wasn't consistent and results in herky-jerky vs fluid skiing. The key thing is to maintain high hips and forward pressure going *into* the top face of the moguls and maintain body position while you absorb through the mogul. This will push your feet back during absorption, flex your tips and flex your boots. You are right that boots are stiff, that is good, because the forces generated in that moment are extreme and are enough to flex your skis and boots, then when you crest you don't pull back and manually drop your tips, the energy stored in your flexed tips and boots will *explode* down the backside of the moguls. You can never ski with that speed or fluidity any other way. If you are trying to have your skis glued to the back of the moguls this is how the great ones do it (Bilodeu, Lahtella, Brassard, etc). The video you did with SIA where you discussed the "virtual mogul" (that's not actually the right term I think) was very illustrative here. The end of the turn happens at the face of the mogul, the transition at the crest, and the start on the backside. Similar to the flats, dynamic and fluid mogul skiing is, in part, about taking the energy stored in the previous turn and effectively using that for a strong initiation of the next turn. In moguls this opportunity is even larger because there really is a mogul allowing you to flex and store even more energy while turning less, and you *need* that extra energy or, again, you'll never get pressure to your tips on the backside when you are going fast. Also, you have several positions you reject because your weight goes down and forward. But consider that in moguls you are ideally absorbing a lot so those lower positions, right at the transition, is exactly where most people fall into the backseat and the worst place to do so. So the critical position to analyze is precisely the low absorbed position, how you move from that position, and what energies are stored (or that you want to make sure and store) and available to you in that moment, not the extended position. Of course extended position is related because how you are both absorbed and forward at the same time, and are able to explode down the back of the bumps, is fundamentally connected to what you are doing right before that moment.

[@elliot3748]

Hips forward is one way of looking at it. I prefer to think of it as pulling your feet back underneath you. Great Vid

[@normferguson2769]

I used to be wild in moguls. My legs went everywhere and lots of energy was expended. One day a ski patroller went by me with minimum /quiet body. I made a conscious sort to calm the legs, use more ankle turn, knees in the fall line as much as possible, and retain quiet upper body.

[@johnplath1072]

My favorite game to play in bumps/crud in view of the lift: convince the viewer from the chair that you are skiing a groomer!

[@puregsr]

This may sound weird, but this reminds me of the weird looking horse stance of wing chun kung fu, pelvis to tilted forward and up. Thought this would be interesting and a revelation for some us martial artists out there.

[@ianfoehr6011]

AHHH the air hump technique

[@dchingy]

Great video about moment... not the usual tips that wveryone talks about.... same thing over and over again

[@Bigpictureskiing]

Glad you liked it!

[@ryanletterman1434]

So there are some videos that talk about retracting the legs. This is all the same thing, right?

[@jacobuskooijman6256]

Like backwards riding on a bike movement with feet and legs.

[@helenek5678]

are we just going straight down the fall? where;s the turning etc?

[@schneeschnittchen1736]

Tom, again great video! I just discovered your channel and I'm excited, thank you 👍 When are you going to visit the Austrian Alps/ Tyrol? I would really like to book a personal training with you!! Is there any chance?? Or maybe you offer a ski camp there? Kind regards from Germany!

[@schneeschnittchen1736]

Thank you so much for your answer, a camp would be great 😇 I will stay tuned for sure 😉 See you in the alps some day!

[@todaysnarrative879]

It's about handling speed

[@jamesd5969]

Yes two thumbs up.

[@wallstreetoneil]

like rodeo bull riding - amazing stuff

[@patgilbert9785]

OMG!!!! This changed everything. I (recreationally - comment below is bullshit - I exert so much less stress on my knees and back by using your advice than before) mogul ski with 2 of my siblings. We are expert mogul skiers but my sister can ski just a little better than me - arghhh - NOT ANYMORE!! I sit back too far and don't push my hips forward a bit like your videos show - I KICKED her ass this week on Drunken Frenchman (Mary Jane Colorado). No way to thank you enough. Even she complimented me - which Never happens! When skiers learning to do moguls see us ski - they always ask us how we are so smooth with our legs together - we always answer - "read the Book" the book meaning Everything the Instructors Never Told You about Mogul Skiing by Dan DiPiro that little book made us go from good mogul skiers to expert - but NOW after your video I am even better (oh by the way I am 57 years old)

[@jllaforce]

They are not forward, their feet are back. Subtle but important difference. If you attempt to get your upper body forward, you will end up crouched. Keeping your feet back and keeping the tips down, or tails up, will create the correct position.

[@inquistive]

Hi #Tom, I have been told that the way to stay forward in the bumps is to pull the feet back at the top of the mogul. What are your thoughts on that?

[@Bigpictureskiing]

Absolutely all I’d say is you also need to keep the hips moving forward on top of this

[@inquistive]

@@Bigpictureskiing Actually Tom, when the skier is fully compressed at the top of the bump, I believe it is very difficult, if not impossible to pull the feet back and that is perhaps why both your examples are not doing that. Also, people talk about actively extending into the hollow, but in your experience, is it not the case that having fully absorbed the bump, the skier just lets go of the absorbed/compressed unnatural position which results in the legs extending - in other words, doesn't it just happen naturally as opposed to actively?

[@Bigpictureskiing]

@@inquistive just what I feel: you’re pulling your feet back through the absorption. Abs even if you’re fully compressed tension in the muscles that pull the feet back will make a big difference. And no being passive is not enough. In many situations. At least not for me. I’m active to some extent. For sure there is a lot of extension that comes as a result of a well timed absorption but I ski better when I also focus on what I’m doing with the extension

[@jude6228]

It's a good analysis (I like example 3, e.g. Chuck Martin) but am looking forward to trying the reduced extension with more "pelvic thrust technique" with less elongation in the extension phase. NB. The Kingsley example is unfortunate because his weight is so far back that, besides being grotesque, his balls (of feet) can't possibly achieve the downward pointed form from backseat position he maintains.

[@jude6228]

@@Bigpictureskiing I appreciate your take, Tom. Kingsbury skis fast down uniform, predictable machine made bumps whereas, in the real world, advanced (weekend) skiers ski moguls of varying lengths, heights, pitches, and textures. The methods of the former and latter do not necessarily agree. If the clock isn't a factor, I much prefer watching and (better still) doing mogul skiing on 'natural' mogul terrain. At any rate, I value the aesthetics of good mogul skiing above other performing art forms and, for me at least, if it's not beautiful (graceful, strong, technically flawless) it's off (somehow deficient). I suppose when the clock is a non-factor, subjective taste assumes dominant importance.

[@expatinasia]

Vivo Barefoot shoes?

[@terryhagen180]

Keep your hands in front of you and you’ll be fine.

[@jjanderson8235]

Absolutely true in GS racing, applies to moguls too.

[@BMBW2008]

That is PA Rousseau not Kingsbury

[@jonathanberger9469]

I call that the Michael Jackson move

[@Bigpictureskiing]

YyyyyyyOooooowwwwww!!!! I like it

[@blackestjake]

Competitive mogul skiing is different from recreational mogul skiing. While this video shows how elite bump skiers handle high speeds and the forces involved it should not be confused with the most effective way of managing varied terrain for the average skier. Skiing like this WILL take a toll on the body (knees, back) and could be dangerous for skiers who think this is the ONLY way to ski bumps. In mogul competitions the bumps are carefully sculpted to allow the athletes a consistent, predictable rhythm which is rarely found in bumps which form naturally.

[@christiane687]

I disagree with this. Recreational mogul skiing should aspire to emulate competitive mogul skiing because it is the safest and most controlled technique in the bumps. Done properly it is much easier, healthier and safer for a person's back regardless of the line being on a seeded course or natural bump line. Ideally the skier maintains a straight and upright posture, without forward bending at the waist. Constantly "breaking" at the waist and bouncing forward to absorb the impact of a bump is poor technique and what put's a skier's back at risk. The absorption should all happen in the legs, leaving the back in a position of low stress. Recreational skiers who emulate competitive mogul skiers can employ the same techniques to ski a zipper line in a controlled and safe manner, albeit at a slower speed. The fundamentals are passive absorption coming into the face of a bump (which controls speed), active extension to set an edge on the back side of the bump (which controls speed) and "quiet" hands always pushing forward, with the skier's arms extended and their elbows in front of the body. These fundamental pillars of mogul skiing apply to any types of bumps on or off the course.

[@kevinmccarthy7907]

I disagree with your comment. I broke my back at 20 years old. I am now 60. I teach skiing and still can still ski the zipper line, albeit more slowly. But, it does not hurt like you believe. My knees and back do not get sore.

[@kevinmccarthy7907]

​@@christiane687 I agree with you. Not the original comment that you commented on.

[@mitchelladrian9460]

"Your ski boots are quite stiff" clearly you don't have full tilts

[@JB91710]

here's an easier way to explain this. There is a rod going from the bottom of the hill to the top and it passes through your chest. Your upper body slides down that rod while you push your feet down and pull them up to Anticipate the contours of the bumps. This keeps the weight on your feet consistent so your run is smooth with as few impacts as possible and your upper body will always be in a quiet position so you can maintain balance. That's why your eyes must be a few bumps ahead for that anticipation. You aren't even thinking of the bump you are actually on. This goes for Real mogul skiing where your skis actually turn and straight down the hill ricocheting off the bumps like you see in competition.

[@andrewpeters9520]

Excellent analysis of biomechanics related to World Cup Mogul skiing. Why don’t you call them elite World Cup mogul skiers? This technique isn’t actually “skiing” IMHO. I’m coming from a ski instructor coach perspective . Is there ski performance? Who actually skis this way? It’s brutal. It’s extremely damaging to the body ...Is the ski actually doing a reverse camber? Where’s the turning arc? All this is minimal in World Cup mogul skiing. It’s what the judges want to see, going down the fall line fast absorbing impacts, legs together...Again excellent analysis of what’s going on.

[@helenek5678]

right you are Andrew. pure clown skiing!

[@wallstreetoneil]

Using your same analog, it's like saying Messi isn't a soccer player because he can only single-handedly go through an entire team, or Curry isn't a good basketball player because he can only hit 3pointers from 40 feet away, or Gretzky wasn't a good hockey player because he got twice as many assists as goals. Just because you have to teach 99% of the human population to ski slowly around moguls so they don't break something, doesn't make that skiing - it's skiing for the less skilled. I've been fortunate enough to ski a run with World Cup Kitzbühel winner Todd Brooker (who looks like a God when he skis) but there was also the unbelievable time I skied next to Jean Luc Brassard at Tremblant - I can confidently say, he was by far the most gifted skier in the world in his prime - hell, go look at his Instagram page and you can see him doing a Master Mogul run at 49 years old, with a backflip - it is beyond incredible his ability at almost 50 to ski better than 99.99999% of all skiers alive. Mogul skiing IS skiing - learning to ski on perfect groomers is like thinking you know how to play golf because you look good on a range - but can't break 90 on a course.

[@normalizedaudio2481]

That first one will strain your lower back. It's not good at all. Try and get away from it.

[@haoreezy]

gapers!

[@i_gar]

Thank you!!!