How Do You Review Half an Episode? (The Legend of Ruby Sunday Review)

It’s Doctor Who finale time… somehow. The Doctor and Ruby are set to fight Sutekh with their bare hands, but we won’t know that for 99% of the episode because it’s alllllll setup. Let’s talk about that.
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[@OcyTaviAh]

I personally think it would have worked better if the Doctor and Ruby had showed up to UNIT specifically for Ruby’s mystery and then UNIT asked the Doctor for help with the Susan Triad thing and that’s when he said “hang on, we’ve literally seen this woman everywhere” because immediately that would have felt so much more natural than the vibe we got at the beginning of “time to wrap this up!” It would help to explain why the Doctor almost immediately abandons the more time sensitive SueTech thing for the Ruby Time-Window thing too. I just think changing a few lines in that opening scene would have shifted it into a better episode. Where it is now feels so meh to me.

[@saenz7947]

My thoughts exactly. The way it went ''let's acknowledge the mystery boxes right from the start'' felt very unnatural and I think that's such a shame. The approach they chose made it super weird for the Doctor to just say, okay so there's this mysterious woman popping up everywhere, I want to unravel this mystery box, then have the Torchw.. I mean- the UNIT show him Susan Triad, who apparently is gonna do some major reveal later that day about this tech which we still don't know what it is, and the Doctor instead of focusing on that, as it follows the ''giving the world new amazing technology for free reeks of some sinister plot being behind it'' very precisely, the Doctor then jumps focus on Ruby and her mystery, like he can't deal with one mystery and then focus on the other. Made me scream at the screen ''What are you doing, Doctor? Why are you actively choosing to deal with two plotlines at once?'' The way you suggested the opening unwrapping would have made so much more sense, both in universe and from a story-telling perspective. Also, I'm sorry to say I really don't like the UNIT team. I think it's a great concept, but very poorly executed, with too many characters being, well.. characterised, but with time limitation and the UNIT spin off not happening prior to this episode, it actually decharacterised the characters more by forcibly trying to characterise them.. if that makes sense. It's like 13th Doctor and the fam all over again and it really weakened the episode for me a lot. Rose, sorry, love, but you were not meant to be in this episode, you contributed to nothing and only took the role of going home with Ruby instead of Harriet, who I believe should have been Ruby's escort here, it would really make it more tragic and heart-wrenching if we, maybe had a dialogue between Ruby and Harriet about Harriet to elevate her to being an actual well established and well characterised character and then the reveal would be so much better. Also also, I really miss Osgood who was such a rich character, and I would take Osgood before any of the new characters in UNIT. Also also also, am I the only one who misses the UNIT being more of a cold military institution? I mean, when I remember series 4 and 7-9 UNIT, it always had this big presence when it was in an episode, now it feels more like if Torchwood 3 was located in Torchwood 2 but instead of the Torchwood 3 team it goes for the fam from 13th Doctor's era vibe. Underdeveloped in my opinion. But I see a lot of people praising the new UNIT and very much liking it so maybe I just need to rewatch all the new stuff since the 60th anniversary specials again.

[@pascalfernandes6957]

Thats very RTD ​@@saenz7947

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@saenz7947 And even in Torchwood, or Classic, UNIT were bad. It's weird. Kate's abandoned her principles from her first episode and we're applauding. Although, the running joke about "No, we don't have that. Never... Yes, we do." is still funny.

[@novagray4143]

Harriet being the one to invite Ruby's mom along after a heart to heart about her own distant parent who was taken from her (Sutehk) would also flow better ​@@saenz7947

[@TetchyEquation]

I agree that Harriet should've had a stronger presence in the episode, or could've even appeared in The Giggle.

[@theIrishGandalf]

Definitely, I believe Genesis Lynea (Harriet) who previously starred in BBC’s Silent Witness as a reoccurring main character for a season or two, is a a great choice for a prominent role that crops up like you suggest from The Giggle onwards - that is when she was given something to work with. Shame what could’ve been something to bolster a true reveal since as soon as the character ‘Harriet’ was put on the cast list a majority of people assumed, at least that I saw, that’s she’d be a harbinger of sorts.

[@theredguy4043]

She'll never be Harriet Jones, former prime minister

[@B-MC]

I had a question about this; if Devils Chord and LoRR had a literal character named H.Arbinger, how come The Giggle didn't?

[@TetchyEquation]

@@theIrishGandalf It is a massive shame, especially considering this episode will have been written before they made "The Giggle"

[@dw_2005]

Notice that Harriet throughout the episode is seeming trying to influence UNIT and the Doctor to go through with certain things. Like she comes up with the VHS idea, She hesitates when the Doctor explains how he has seen Susan Triad all over the universe (Making a face like 'He knows about her, everything is falling into place'), The moment the doctor says "No, No i cant. I've been there once" refering to Ruby Road Harriet reaches over to get an iPad, then looks shocked and excited by what she's found out. As the doctor says "That night is so raw and so open, the last thing i should do is take a time machine back there". When they are in the time window he also says "That TARDIS is almost Solid, if time is memory and memory is time then what is the memory of a time machine" (notice how the Ruby Road TARDIS has the door left open). If a memory of a TARDIS is physically always there like a weeping angel then maybe animating a memory of a TARDIS of an open door lets Sutekh out and allows him to climb out of the time window (VHS recording) into reality. Susan Triad could be a trap to draw the Doctor to UNIT in the first place to investigate why she appears So that Harriet could use the Doctor's knowledge to find a way for Sutekh to Return. Like he became trapped within the TARDIS to regain his power and needed a way to be let out. Harriet also takes the task of enhancing the image of the TARDIS on the modified VHS recording after the Time Window Broke as if its a way to let Sutekh out to help her Master. Im sure most of this will all be explained in Empire but it still bothers me why we dont yet know the purpose of Susan Triad. She mirrors Bad Wolf (words placed everywhere to allow Rose to get back to the future) and the Impossible Girl (echo versions of Clara along the Dr's Timeline to save him at every corner). I think she's more a trap by Sutekh or Harriet to lure the Doctor or as a manner to allow him to escape. I disagree with the people who think she might be a result of the TARDIS going wrong in Wild Blue Yonder.

[@TheKellster94]

Yeah I thought the 'haven't got children yet' line was weird since Russell in his first era had one episode were 10 says to Rose 'I was a Dad once'

[@EditedAF987]

Russel can be forgetful. Apparently he had to be reminded on Wilson’s job as electrical engineer when writing the Rose novelisation. If he forgot a minor detail from an episode he wrote, then him forgetting a fact brought up in two episodes not written by him isn’t that unreasonable.

[@lued123]

Ncuti says, "One dad to another..." in Boom when he's trying to convince the AI dad to break into the Villengard computer system.

[@theredguy4043]

I mean......he canonically knocked up Queen Elizabeth the first. Would that make the royal family part time lord?

[@chargestone96]

​@@theredguy4043the royal family arent tudors and elizabeth never had any descendants take the throne anyway

[@bigspongeyfan1]

I think it’s fine for a time lord to refer to being a dad even if it’s something they know will happen in the future. Adds to the mystique. Feels very eighth doctor in the TV movie.

[@ellisr.kinnear164]

This was almost Kate's Episode in a way. Like Jemma Redgrave's performance was absolutely killer, and this is coming from a decade-long Kate fan. Like she absolutely killed it. The look she shot the Doctor after the colonel was killed, her ordering Ruby about, the conversation about Susan and the vague offended-ness after the TRIAD reveal. She was stellar. Love seeing her given great material to sink her teeth into

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I really enjoyed her too, it’s interesting she’s really starting to feel like a great presence to me

[@KatzePiano]

On your point about characters being there who don't need to be, I loved having Rose in the episode but she points out herself that UNIT don't give her anything interesting to do, and yet she even sticks around when the room is evacuated of all but the most vital people. That stuck out to me as nonsensical. She's there because she's important to us as viewers, not because she's important to UNIT or to the story itself.

[@daliasaravia1443]

get rid of Morris, get rid of Rose, and give all of that to Harriet and this would’ve been a great episode…. even Carla could’ve been left out here, but fine she’s important to Ruby….. just felt so redundant having all those people

[@bennett4789]

morris is AWESOME!!!

[@NEWMAN0067]

"How do you review...?" 34 minutes long. Fantastic! Russell has never let down with a series finale first parter, not once. Its always the later episodes(s) that make or stop it from being a all time classic. Even then if Empire of death is bad, it won't take away that the episode had me almost telling at midnight that "No... he didnt... he didn't bring him back?!" For 10 minutes, and that's what make me happy. Good episode!

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It seemed I managed to find many ways to talk about how there wasn’t much to talk about

[@jayanderson9375]

😂😂

[@Scroteydada]

Genesis Lycett as Harriet had a great voice for a monologue I hope she's not just a villain and actually stays around

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Fingers crossed!

[@Kelleck]

Skongo better appear in the next episode

[@Joe_Brennan_]

He’s the one who REALLY waits

[@dickottel]

P'ting

[@isaacwright8211]

really liked your insight about that "granddaughter but no kids" line. I don't really hear people talk about the hartnell era and the stuff thats actually going on more implicitly in that era (people mostly mention it for weird canon welding stuff). I would like 1 jboi video on it please.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah it feels like the only thought here with any potential for further exploration

[@danthomassolo]

In the moment, I actually didn’t mind that implication that Susan is somehow from The Doctor’s future. It seemed perfectly plausible, pending further information, that she was possibly sent back to learn about/from her grandfather because she somehow can’t in her own time. But having heard your take on it, I can see why some people wouldn’t like it. I did always think that implication of the family that The Doctor lost gave the Time War a personal dimension to the character (he didn’t just lose his species, he lost people that he loved) and losing that from the story feels like it takes something away from the character, potentially. It does make certain earlier scenes make less sense too. In The Empty Child, Dr Constantine says: “Before this war began, I was a father and a grandfather. Now I am neither, but I am still a doctor” and The Doctor replies: “…I know the feeling”. Before it was heartbreaking. Now it just seems strange. Although, we all need to remember rule 1: The Doctor lies.

[@stuartlittle281]

The implication of kids being in his future and not his past is annoying to me after repeated references to him being a parent in the past, including in this season in Boom where he relates "dad skills". More explicitly in "The Doctor's Daughter" where he said Jenny brings back the pain of having been a father before and losing his family.

[@dansharp2860]

@@stuartlittle281 "Donna, I've been a father before." would directly contradict the claim here that he hasn't had any children yet.

[@kennethnystrom593]

Its the exact same with Ashildur; but for a different Whoniverse and (different) Doctor then with our Doctor and Susan Foreman. Ill skip alot here but if someone wants an indepth explination how we know this just ask. Ashildur is the granddaughter of Clara (the new WHoniverse 0th riginial Doctor; (since Akhaten) CAL in the library is the 1st Doctor for this whoniverse (that knows shes the Doctor at some time) There is some more there that involves our Doctor and a female Rassilon in the classic WHoniverse (as that female Rassilon was our Doctor´s original wife) while they had to live thru mankinds history without an working timemachine. and they had many children thruout histroy where one would end up having Susan Foreman.... and its the same with Ashildur Our now (former) Doctor and CLara will have to live thru history together and have alot of children. (We saw 2 in Fires of Pompeii) and we know of a few more. Especially the one that our Doctor gave virgin birth 2 in about 4BCE and that became the Timeless child (for the new WHoniverse) Not the TImeless child mentioned during JW era that was the Timeless child of Rassilon (virgin birthed in classic whoniverse 4 BCE) and that was "missing for some year" until returned to where it became Jesus in around 12AD... All this is actually in the show if one knows what to look out for....

[@Horltum]

So Ruby's a demigod, right? Like the daughter of a Muse or some Doctor Who equivalent? Almost certainly her mother left her at the church because she knew that it would set up a timeline in which Ruby met the Doctor and the two of them stopped Sutekh. My main problem with the episode as a whole is that the start of the whole plotline with the time window seems really forced. Like the Doctor turns around after discussing Susan Triad and says "also it's the season finale and we need to try and explain Ruby's backstory, so let's go do that."

[@Qicksilver0075]

I love the Disney money because it gave them the ability to look awesome however I hate that Disney caps shows at 8 episodes. you can't tell a story like Doctor Who in eight episodes especially with a new doctor and a new companion who haven't had time to actually get to know each other before the end of the season

[@guy3854]

I agree this season has been stunted by the short episode count, no time for any meaningful development, just straight into action. It makes scenes like Ruby's death fakeout in Rogue much less impactful because we haven't properly got to know her relationship with the doctor (apart from the fact theyre friends)

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I really wouldn’t have expected 8 episodes to be as much of a problem as it is, but this is a sad state of affairs

[@andrewraphael3800]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Yeh the whole thing feels very compressed - most other streaming shows are more of a long-running serial, which isn't so much a problem. But with Who, it is a different situation every week with an arc sitting in the background until the finale. There was never enough time in 6 episodes to develop the Doctor, the Companion and any side characters that play importance in the finale. To use series 4 as an example, it would be like knowing all we know about Donna and family up until 'The Doctor's Daughter' then jumping to 'The Stolen Earth' It would technically work, but we would lose so much of the character's development and the sense that they've been on a long journey together before meeting the big bad of the series. I hope this format changes in the future, or the writing works around these limitations better.

[@hayleypelham]

What gets me is in the S4 episode The Doctor's Daughter, Tennant told Donna he'd been a father before. "When they died, that part of me died with them. It'll never come back. Not now." implying that he's had more than one child... So are they just straight up retconning that now? Or did RTD forget? 🤷

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Really odd decision that just makes things worse

[@kobalt_ren01]

I'm glad that "do you dream of being an ambulance" line really stuck out, I love it so much hahaha Funnily enough, the reading leaks and passing it off as a guess bit reminds me of when I used to look up the plot of a murder mystery while watching and surprise my mother. Though, I was a kid, probably not even high school age, and I still feel terrible about it to this day XD

[@Joe_Brennan_]

There’s a unique guilt that comes from tricking your way into being praised and admired

[@kobalt_ren01]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I'm collecting guilt like pokemon at this rate XD

[@PixarPins]

A scene at the start of Ruby going home and then at some point seeing Sue Triad on TV would have done much better at reinforcing that Ruby does have a life outside of the Tardis, establish the connection to Carla from the off and more naturally start the narrative. It is quite comparable to Pandorica Opens, but I think that did a much better job at having and solving a mystery, and the second part dealing with the fall out. The questions about the Pandorica, cracks in time (ignoring the still unanswered questions about HOW the Tardis exploded), the odd things about Amy’s life, what happened with Rory were all dealt with in that opening. I also think it was much more inventive and exciting as its own story. In comparison with this episode, we don’t know who rubys mum is, we kind of know about Susan Twist but only half (a quarter?) of the story. I feel like one of those at least should have been definitively explained.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’m glad you agree that this isn’t just a typical part 1 setup situation

[@drawingbanana8158]

From what I've experienced, 8 episode seasons/series seem to be becoming more and more common and they're harming a lot of stories, this one included. You can tell that they want to do more with what they have but the episode limit makes what would otherwise be decent pacing inherently rushed, which doesn't work well for serialised stories.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah I think I would still rather have shorter seasons more regularly than longer ones more sporadically but it feels like a bad call to have to make

[@Comicbroe405]

Understandable title but I loved this ep. Like its an actual Bad Wolf type banger & really tells you that RTD hasn't fallen off when it comes to setups. Hoping it pays off cuz I've been rewatching & noticing many little details.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

The title maybe comes off as more negative than I really feel

[@Comicbroe405]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Nah I didn't take it negatively.

[@Nyzackon]

Me neither.

[@danthomassolo]

As soon as the name “Sutekh” appeared on screen and the camera lingered there for a moment, I thought “OK, that’s a homework assignment”. My wife said “are we supposed to know who that is?” and I said “I actually don’t know”, so I had to Google it. It wasn’t enough to ruin the episode for me, but I knew that it was a reveal that I didn’t have the requisite knowledge to fully appreciate. I felt this episode was quite badly paced for maybe the first third to half. I had this sense of whiplash and felt like I was having to run to keep up with it. Maybe I was just tired, I don’t know.

[@deetvleet]

I watched pyramids of mars right after for the first time and it was a great experience

[@stelmaria-mx]

The Vlinx is my favourite little guy! It's just so funky and I love the new chrome vibes.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Hot metal!

[@cfsfilms5091]

I genuinely do not understand how anyone could dislike the Vlinx. It's a helpful alien robot they clearly pulled out of some spaceship and got to work for them, this is the kind of thing UNIT should be doing more often. If nothing else it demonstrates both that UNIT isn't 100% shoot first anymore, and that they deal with a ton of stuff we don't see, and I really like that. But also yeah it's just a funky lil' guy who's proud of their work, let 'em have this!

[@warriorlizard7246]

I feel like if they HAD to introduce Harriet in that episode, having her be an archivist is smart, but she shouldn't have been on the bridge at the beginning, they should have called her up when they started talking about the tape, asked her if it was possible. Would make her feel more like she's part of UNIT rather than just there because she needs to be by the end. OR, if you want her on the bridge, have her be one of the specialist that the kids are, to justify their presence too. You have her be the science/techy person, and the super genius is shadowing her due to his advanced intellect. He isn't technically employed, but he's around and he's training. Then, when she gets taken out, he naturally fills that role since he's there and ahs the know-how, it's an urgent situation, they can't fly in any of the other science specialists they know because it would take too long. Now it's justified why he is there a bit more, and they keep him around because they just traumatised a kid, had him watch his mentor turn into a pawn of sutekh, cant' exactly turn him loose because who knows what she was teaching him on the lowdown, they have to keep an eye on him. You could even have this come up goign forwards, where he maybe suggests things that are morally grey or not in line with UNIT, because he's young and way watching an evil harbinger lay down their plans with full approval from UNIT. Or have H. Arbinger be a weird time thing where once she reveals herself nobody remembers hiring her, they don't remember why they hired her, or why they had an ARCHIVIST on the bridge in the first place, it does seem like a security risk in hindsight, but by the powers of the gods she slipped through, similar to the cloaking device of the TARDIS (established to also apply to old Ruby in 73 yards), tie it into what happened earlier in the season rather than everything pretty much coming out of nowhere except what they through in our faces.

[@warriorlizard7246]

Anyway, all that to say I enjoyed the episode, but we'll see where they take it in the next one, it has a lot of work to do. Frankly we needed more episodes this season on Earth to establish this S. Triad, have some cold opens where Ruby's at home and its playing in the background, or her low income mum is excited to finally have cutting edge technology available to her. I personally didn't understand what made Susan an 'evil genius', and it didn't seem the plot did either. They could've shown us the implications of Susan gaining popularity earlier, but the episodes and season as a whole were too short and didn't afford this unfortunately

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

Like Adam from Torchwood.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

Maybe Rose was shadowing her?

[@genevievemccluer7503]

I enjoyed it quite a lot. I'm pretty sure the Doctor even mentioned being a parent in Boom, so that line was extra strange then, and I hope they don't go with it, but I suppose we'll find out. I did hear someone saying that that could mean that Jenny is Susan's mother and that would at least be a fun payoff if still not ideal, but mostly just because I've been wanting Jenny back for over a decade now. I definitely think that Mrs. Flood could end up being Susan. Now that we've had the last of the gods, I doubt she's another one, though I suppose she could be the Trickster, but her weirdly mean speech seems perfectly set up for a heroic twist in the next episode.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Susan just being a weird offputting neighbour would be quite funny to be fair

[@genevievemccluer7503]

@@Joe_Brennan_ That's honestly the best option. And we never find out how she knew what a TARDIS was

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@genevievemccluer7503 She Geocomtexed it years ago. Or VOR. Or Bing. Google, even.

[@filmgeek520]

I think the episode count is far too short, it's symptomatic of a lot of tv lately. Even Nine, Ten, and Eleven all had 13 episodes, and you can feel the lack of breathing room here. It feels far too early to do a two-part finale because there are a whole five episodes missing that were there in earlier seasons. It's rushed because it is. It doesn't feel like Ruby has seen much of the universe, and we've barely gotten to know the supporting cast - something that those episodes would have most certainly alleviated. I don't see this issue changing so long as studios are cutting back production costs to save money, but Who is certainly a show that suffers from this practice.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Ruby has had like only two time travel adventures, only one on a proper alien planet, and one that didn’t even happen, and now her first season is drawing to an end

[@lavalampbamboo]

It’ll depend on how they resolve the story I suppose, but I like how the fifteenth Doctor is the one who’s finally dealing with Susan. Given he’s clearly more emotionally healthy (presumably through the old nonlinear bigeneration healing and all), it makes sense he’s at a stage where he’s ready to confront whatever happened there. It also might be because RTD finally built up the courage to deal with this storyline.

[@pascalfernandes6957]

Wich is weard becaus he at the same time still runs from stuff

[@lavalampbamboo]

@@pascalfernandes6957 the emotional therapy also brought his survival instinct back, I guess??

[@DotDotDott]

I'm gonna be really honest, especially after the stupid line about the Doctor's kids, I don't want Susan back in the show. Especially since I know they're gonna pretend he hasn't seen her since Dalek Invasion(which isn't even true in just show lore because 5 doctors) for stupid drama that would just be repeating School Reuinon again

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I think that’s fair enough

[@jackboulter4901]

While yes this episode is All setup that dosent make it bad, if anything i enjoyed the tension it was building, Also the cliffhanger was one of best we've gotten in years. Plus it was nice having rose there to have some time with Ruby, I'm also intrigued as to who mrs flood is, Anita dobson played it really well, and i know you're not saying i cant enjoy the episode i would definitely not call it incomplete, I'm excited for the finale next week, yes Russell's finales tend not to stick the landing apart from series 1 i feel but overall this is probably my favourite episode of the series.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’m so glad you enjoyed it

[@jimmytimote]

I think a 10 episode season would have been great, even if it had a lower budget per episode. It would allow to maybe have maybe a double episode in the middle of the season. Ithink a two parter aliens of london style in this season where the family/ms flood was involved would have really helped this season

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I was thinking about the lack of an aliens of london style episode for the sundays, it really would’ve helped

[@nathanielk7415]

i really like the unit gang, it reminds me so much of the dynamic in the 3rd doctor era - one of my favourite eras of who. it's weird that shirley wasn't there but i like that the cast is revolving and the staff must have different days where they're on shift

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I think it would be a cool thing to keep up with

[@jayanderson9375]

They say she’ll be back!

[@the_amazing_crappo]

I'll reserve judgement until after part 2 but it's weird that RTD's (and Disney's) idea of a brand new "Season 1" jumping on point for brand new fans is the return of a villain from the 1970's using a character from the 1960's as a red herring. Has RTD ever used a non-classic villain in his finales? Props to Moffat and Chibnall for doing it. Could've done without a great big CGI dog sprouting from the TARDIS like the shark from Jaws 19. Remember in Pyramids of Mars when Sarah Jane just sees the mask in the TARDIS? That was far scarier and creepier.

[@tristan9506]

I think the narrative focus on the doctor being orphaned almost compels touching on Susan at some point - the doctor is emotionally affected by the revelation he was an orphan, and connects with Ruby’s journey, yet the Doctor once left a family member behind and never returned. If I were RTD, I’d want to poke around a bit at that subject too. It sounds like I enjoyed the episode a bit more intensely than you, but overall agree it was thoroughly “part one”-y. It’ll be interesting to see if next week manages to be equally thoroughly “finale”-y without becoming exhausting.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

You’d hope that between Journey’s End and End of Time, Davies would have got all the most extreme exhausting finale-ness out of his system, but who knows

[@cfsfilms5091]

@@Joe_Brennan_ *But Joe he's had 15 years to recharge.*

[@Nyzackon]

Excellent point!

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@cfsfilms5091 And several shows with good finales since then.

[@sansfi]

I didn't watch the classic series and I didn't know who Sutekh was. But the reveal did nothing for me. For starters I'm not such a fan of these gods from this season because they feel a bit too randomly powered. But at least the Toymaker and the Maestro felt interesting, not just for the preformances (which were great) but because making Toys and Music something threatening is interesting. Bringing the God of Death as the villain feels uninteresting. Like brining The Devil or whatever. Plain Evil Evilness of Death feels boring as a threat.

[@djdee6386]

I also feel like last episode could have set up better for this. Maybe after the adventure Ruby could be like “I saw the woman again” and then the Doctor is like “that’s it, we need to know what’s going on here, I know some people who can help.” And then roll credits

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I agree, it’s a shame this week follows from her least interesting/prominent appearance

[@djdee6386]

@@Joe_Brennan_ yeah it would’ve been great if she was one of the party-goers or something. That was the Doctor and Ruby can both interact with and question her (since the only time that happened was in The Devils Cord, before they noticed, and 73 yards, where that timeline got reset)

[@CrobatmanIamthenight]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I feel like the groan fromt he tardis in rogue kinda prompted him to want to check it out wiht unit.

[@normak7041]

Big finish will probably give us that at some point inevitably

[@CrobatmanIamthenight]

@@normak7041 yea i dont think its a big deal really, i get some people like to see anything, but im fine with just inferring stuff, like the groan in rogue finally got the doctor thinking "he needs to check this out"

[@Creek932]

I enjoyed it and the reveal is awesome but right now I think it’s RTD’s weakest part 1 of a finale. Bad Wolf, Army of Ghosts, Utopia, and The Stolen Earth were all much more cohesive and better paced than this one imo.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I think you’re absolutely right

[@jayanderson9375]

Even army of ghosts?

[@Creek932]

@@jayanderson9375 Army of Ghosts is fantastic.

[@jayanderson9375]

@@Creek932 glad it worked for you, I’ve seen it a few times, but it’s one I generally skip

[@bigspongeyfan1]

and All Out War part 1 is a belter from Wizards vs Aliens.

[@keit99]

About mel. Mel in classic who was one of my least favourite companions. But I really like what big finish did to her as a character. And this era of doctor who using her as UNIT staff is really great.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Leaning into the more Bonnie Langford side of the characterisation has done the character so much good

[@jayanderson9375]

I always wanted Mel to do more ( computer genius? She mainly screams😂). I’m really glad to see her character flesh out!

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@jayanderson9375 See, this is why I've stuck with only the Trial episode that she's in.

[@christianwise637]

The thing about the first part of a two-part story is that it still has to feel complete and satisfying, like there was some actual substance to it. Films like Dune and Across the Spider-Verse were great on their own, and had enough meaty material in them to make us happy even without the second half of the completed story. Even within Doctor Who, I feel like this has largely been the case for the first parts of previous finales; "Bad Wolf", "Army of Ghosts", "Utopia", "The Stolen Earth", "The Pandorica Opens", "Dark Water" and "World Enough and Time" are all great episodes that hold up on rewatch, and are enjoyable enough to watch on their own, even without the rest of the story following them. All of them are held together by compelling narratives, engaging and emotional character work, and a great sense of pacing that carries you from the opening inciting incident right through the climactic twists and cliffhangers. I don't think "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" really succeeded in that same regard, it's an enjoyable episode and I had a lot of fun watching it, but I don't think it has the same kind of engaging substance as those other episodes. Instead it feels more akin to "Ascension of the Cybermen", as a competent and decently engaging episode that is basically just spinning its wheels for 45 minutes as it gets everyone in place for the finale. The pacing didn't feel all that good, what with it taking us roughly 20 minutes for the story to actually get started, and even then the narrative isn't all that interesting. The time window scene is a great bit with a lot of tension and some decently emotional beats, but it doesn't really tell us anything new about Ruby or push her forward - if anything, it's only highlighted how little we really know about her at this point. Similarly, I didn't feel like the stuff with Susan Triad was all that interesting, and the whole bait and switch about her possibly being "our" Susan didn't land for me at least. Someone on Twitter (might've been Mr TARDIS) said it best - it felt like if the first 10 minutes of "The Stolen Earth" was stretched over 45 minutes with the reveal of the Big Bad being positioned as the cliffhanger. On that note though, regardless of my thoughts on the rest of the episode, it ultimately proved that Russell sure knows how to execute a cliffhanger. Like basically everyone on DW Twitter, I'd guessed Sutekh was going to be the Big Bad, but that really did nothing to take away the sheer amount of excitement I got upon seeing his name. Wonky CGI jackal aside, those last minutes do an excellent job at setting him up as a seriously dangerous threat, with Ncuti Gatwa's performance doing a fantastic job at selling the Doctor's absolute terror in these moments (likewise Bonnie Langford and Jemma Redgrave do great with their respective "OMG we're so screwed" scenes). And hearing Gabriel Woolf's sinister dulcet tones once again was just delightful, and set my anticipation for next week's finale into overdrive. Let's hope Russell can stick the landing with "Empire of Death" - the conclusion of the finale is something that he's historically been very mixed on, so I am both excited and nervous; here's hoping for something of a "The Parting of the Ways" level quality rather than a "Journey's End"...

[@notwilhulbert]

i know its not her fault or too big of a deal but it feels weird yasmin finney is 19 and playing a 15(?) year old while millie gibson is an 18 year old playing an 18 year old

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah I do forget Rose is meant to be so young

[@dansharp2860]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Didn't Kate and Donna come to salary terms on her job with UNIT? Why is her 15 year old kid at work and she's not?

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@dansharp2860 Kate voted Labour. Child Labour.

[@Road_to_Dawn]

I’m really surprised you didn’t enjoy it so much! I loved it, thought it was dang near perfect. I’ve felt that each episode of the season was better than the last. On a few of your points: I disagree that this episode needed an “inciting incident”. For me, the inciting incident *was* Susan’s appearances throughout the show, and this episode was starting with the “Ok, hold on, we need to see what’s going on with this lady” that you said. I thought UNIT jumped on the “is his granddaughter” train so quickly because they had no leads or ideas until the Doctor mentioned her, and now they finally had something to go on and chase down. I never felt that the Susan Triad half of the story was going nowhere; it felt like it was building and building, and we were slowly getting more and more breadcrumbs as the trail went on. And the payoff that most of the information we thought we knew was actually wrong, that hit me so hard and I was so shocked lol. I loved it. And one last thing, about the Doctor not having had any kids yet but still having a granddaughter. I could be wrong and misremembering, but I’ve heard someone give a rundown of what happens in Lungbarrow, and I felt that that line was a Lungbarrow reference. Because at the end of that book, I believe that Susan basically comes up to the First Doctor and says “hi, I’m your granddaughter” and that’s that. But like I said, I could be misremembering. Though I can’t disagree with you that it kinda irrelevates all the previous insinuations about the Doctor having been a parent!

[@CulturePhilter]

Totally with you on the “I will be” a dad line. The fact that he’d had a family and lost them was a really powerful part of his backstory. It shouldn’t be thrown out just because because Russell loves messing with fans.

[@arubinojr5670]

He's just this guy who lives in the wall, like The Unknown. (I can old-meme too, RTD.)

[@Tamisday]

It did lose me a bit with the reveal at the end there bc I hadn’t seen Pyramids of Mars but I am familiar with Egyptian gods. I was caught off guard by his presence in the pantheon, where the other gods have been sort of generic Beings of Stuff but this is a very specific god of an earth culture from the edge of the universe? I felt like it needed more time either in the build up or the outro for people who haven’t seen all the classic Who to have some context. So much time was devoted to Susan being “Susan” that could have been spent on unraveling what was actually going on. I did like the episode, though, right up until I was confused by the ending. And I wasn’t even confused so much as completely befuddled by the mechanics. Once I looked up where and how he fits into Who canon, I was alright with the consistency but I feel like some of that lore could have made it into the episode if they’d trimmed everything they tacked on trying to be clever, but I can’t say that the episode would be better for that, just that it would be possible.

[@kozakjew]

For me personally it was the best episode of the season, though I really liked most of the episodes in it. The first half of the episode felt for me a little too slow, but from the point of the time window, I was fully captured by the tension and dynamic of the episode. Also I really enjoyed the atmosphere shift from the beginning where everyone is cheerful and happy and they are all hugging and smiling to the dreadful revelation fo Sutekh. And now I hope that the final episode will be even better!)

[@Joe_Brennan_]

That shift from happy vibes into dread is quite a good point actually. The lack of an inciting incident kind of gives it the chance to be gradual

[@scrambled5948]

Finally got around to this one after 5 days of camping only to be spoiled through implication by the DW KZbin channel uploading a Pyramids of Mars video right before I was about to catch up 😤

[@juliandarch9278]

Didn't expect Richie Sunack to be the villain

[@cfsfilms5091]

On the point of "will this alienate new viewers," I agree and I have evidence. I've been watching tons of reaction videos to this episode and the vast majority of them are people who have never heard of Sutekh, but not a single person has gone "I don't know who that is, so I've lost all interest." They question the name for a second, and then Susan reveals her terrifying skull face and turns a man into sand, which I think is the perfect response to the question "who is Sutekh?" And the cliffhanger still hit all of them hard as a result. Overall I agree with basically all of these points. I like a lot of what this episode is doing, but whether or not I like this finale rests almost entirely on next week; That said I do think this episode's final 10 minutes and especially the reveal and ending will stick with people for years in the same way Utopia's ending eclipses everything else about it. This does bring me to another concern though, because Utopia was a surprise three-parter and this is just a two part story. Empire of Death is going to be longer than a normal episode but it still means we have to deal with *Sutekh* in just one episode and I'm very nervous about that. I do actually like the idea of having an episode entirely dedicated to "you shouldn't have touched this" style buildup, especially given who we're dealing with, but I wish we had more episodes to do this. I won't be surprised if next week I end up liking Empire of Death but thinking it really should have been split into two episodes.

[@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914]

I would love to learn someday that Ncuti used up that leather jacket and it ends up as the old worn coat the War Dotor and later the 9th Doctor uses... but i know it's not the same cut. Sadly...

[@mahonicles]

The "granddaughter but no kids" thing is all very Cartmel Masterplan (bad)

[@KrateKarrot]

12 saying "dad skills". I don''t understand how that makes sense if he hasn't been a father yet. The fact that the doctor has children out there somewhere has been a mystery in this series for 60 years and it's dumb that that's been thrown out with a throwaway "i've not had kids yet" line.

[@dickottel]

maybe he knows he has a child one day just from knowing he has a grandchild, but it's still weird, he talked like he had experience as a father

[@ogpandamonium]

Also 15 said "dad to dad" in boom

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s just such a great little part of the doctor’s life that we should never see but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist

[@KatzePiano]

It also comes up in The Doctor's Daughter! "I've been a father before." The Doctor having children is very much established and often in quite emotional moments, so erasing it seems like a terrible idea.

[@alexanderparker2219]

OK, I have my own interpretation. Just because the doctor hasn't had the children who lead to Susan yet doesn't mean he's not had children period. He could have easily had children during the time war and then later on have more children

[@RobTFilms]

In an episode that's CALLED The Legend of Ruby Sunday, it didn't feel like there was much focus on her at all except for the stuff with Carla and the time window sequence. It's sad because I want to care about her but honestly with how she's been this whole season I couldn't really give a damn about the mystery surrounding her or the character herself.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I feel like this episode is an exploration of the Ruby sunday mystery in the same way that Bad Wolf is an exploration of the bad wolf mystery (it isn’t, we’ll get it next week”

[@ajax4887]

Lol the Susan being with him even before he had had kids was like the only thing I liked from the episode

[@Knaveofspades6]

The Doctor has yet to save the day once this season. (Its NanE that saves the babies) Every episode it has been someone else.

[@amazingdisgrace1684]

Not to get all ☝🤓 but he did save the Bogeyman in that episode. And he arguably saves the day alongside Rogue. But yeah, it has really been other people saving the day at the end. McCartney and Lennon, John Francis Vater, Ruby. But hey, he managed to get a handful of people out of Finetim... Oh no. Erm... But hey, those people went off to their likely deaths. So... technically, the racists saved the day by killing themselves? 🤔

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah they’ve been playing with the format so much that your typical “they arrive and save the day” story is such a rarity

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@amazingdisgrace1684 And before that, other people, random sacrifices, Vinder, holograms.

[@CeceSaysHi_950]

I don’t understand the vlincks haters he’s no thoughts just vibes doctor who and I love that for my boy. Someone make this bot a plushy.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’m so glad to meet a fellow fan

[@antonjbleasdale]

i dont understand the him not having kids, the 10th doctor in the doctors daughter said he was a father once. and doesnt he say father to father in boom?

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Oh yeah I forgot it had happened so recently

[@theredguy4043]

He said that he was a father in fear her too

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

@@theredguy4043 And the last Bill episode, think she got a mention somewhere round then.

[@AllofTimeandSpace]

Even though I knew about the Sue Tech Sutekh rumors my heart was still beating out my chest the entire time! The end reveal is possibly one of the most epic of DW and I wasn’t even that crazy about the idea of Sutekh reappearing. That said I agree with you about it being hard with only one half of the story. I definitely think Kind Woman is Susan and possibly Ruby’s mom ( unless Ruby is her own mom). I think Mrs. Flood is either a god or a time lord, I’m debating on whether she is evil or not.

[@WamWooWam]

I'm be curious about how you feel about this episode after a rewatch because it really fell apart for me there, I feel these episodes are so much better when the Big Reveal is seeded throughout and here it really just, isn't?

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I may rewatch it ahead of next week but I don’t really have much urge to

[@StupidEdits]

I know this the craziest thing to say about Doctor Who, but the time window made it seem like if they gave Doctor Who a time travel episode

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I really understand actually, it’s a show that is 90% of the time less ABOUT time travel than it is using time travel to get to its settings

[@amazingdisgrace1684]

I get what you mean, it had a big "So wait, you're saying we're going to travel through time?" 😲 kind of vibe.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

I still wanted it to become colour for scary.

[@djdee6386]

Wow. Nail on the head! I feel like other finales would have some sort of ongoing conflict? They could have made it so that, after that point in the episode where it appears, the smoky version of Sutekh around the time windowTardis could have escaped the time window, wreaking havoc through unit. Then it could reunite with the current version of Sutekh, somehow completing him? Like, it would make sense for Sutekh to use the strong memory of Ruby (how the snow seeps through for example) to sneak out through the time window, to fuse with his current and past self, completing his return

[@Joe_Brennan_]

The lack of a more ongoing conflict is something that, if remedied, would really change the episode for the better for me

[@martabaski8967]

As someone who has a very limited knowledge of classic Who, it was not an alienating reveal at all. With some other returning classic villains, I get confused and only understand after i read about them. Sutekh was a nice choice for this though, because i understood enough just from egyptian mythology.

[@NathanielKempson]

I had no idea who Sutekh was, took 5 seconds to google it and was like "oooh ok big bad from way back when who likes to destroy shit. cool" But TBH even without that, the final reveal of Sutekh ontop of the TARDIS made me audibly HOLY SHIT THATS TERRIFYING WHO IS THAT so arguably it dosnt matter that much. Its still a suckerpunch. And that voice, mmmmmmm it still hits as hard as it ever did. Intresting that its the same voice as The Beast from The Satan Pit though, i know its the same guy i just find it intresting and wonder if they will ever tie that in somehow...

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Carla did refer to the creature as the beast so it’s very interesting

[@kateglew580]

If the Trickster isn't in the next season I'll go apeshit

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I’d so love to see him

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

The Nekross should show up, personally.

[@eveebunny]

Yea it totally worried me how this ep was only set up and no fighting or finding much out, so that stresses me cause now theres so much that has to get shoved into the next ep and just made this ep kinda slow.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I wonder if doing the two episodes as a double bill would put the issues more on the display or totally alleviate them. I guess we’ll see

[@kennethnystrom593]

This episode was EXACTLY like the episode where we saw the VOID ship during series 1, and the reveal of the Daleks comming out of the voidship.....but more condensed...But its basicly the same script....

[@DakNJaxter]

I'm on the same page. Maybe a little more open to the Doctor non-linear parentage, but erring on the side of 'I don't know about this...'

[@Izelikestea]

all the banter and character interactions were a lot of fun. even if not very plot relevant. tho it sorta makes me wonder if they weren't doing a soft pilot for a whoniverse unit spin off?

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Definitely feels like it could be

[@greghawkins59]

"oh no, not the person who had a few lines here and there" 😂 exactly, this series really does think it's way cooler than it is

[@KingsNJenssons]

I took the no children line as in the future the first Dr has kids and then when he runs off with Susan he goes back in time What's to say that that didn't happen

[@JulieAiken]

I loved it. All of your points are valid, but I loved it from the beginning, with Kate, Col. Ibrahim and Morris all kind of giving The Doctor an eyeroll. It built up the team as equals to The Doctor -- yes, Ibrahim seems to absolutely revere them, but he's not above teasing them. I mean, if I met them I'd revere them, but I'd also love to feel comfortable enough with them to tease them and bring them down a peg. The ensemble is big, but it's strong. The show takes a run, a jump and a hug from Rose and says everything we need to know about their relationship. They're family. In a timey-wimey way, but still family. And the big ensemble felt more like Sarah Jane Adventures than Jodie's "Fam", which did fall a little flat at times. (On rewatch and in retrospect I like the Fam a lot more, actually.) However, I do agree that the shortened season short-changes Carla, as you pointed out in contrasting Ruby's family with Rose's (and Donna's). I, too, hope there's something unexpected and triumphant coming for Carla. Maybe she or Cherry get to slap down Mrs. Flood? Old lady wrestling? Sorry, no one married to Brian May can truly ever be old to my mind. OK - I've rambled enough! IMHO, while the episode was a slow burn, it paid off all the set-ups and got our heroes into prime position to have an incredible finale.

[@ChadBlevins]

19:09 No, no. It's a riff on Elon making fun of him doing those stupid awkward dance moves.

[@ChadBlevins]

It wasn't political commentary reference. It was tech CEO reference.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

It’s very specifically a move Theresa May did when she way PM, the commentary mentions her by name

[@MartyMOT]

I agree that the episode does feel like I first half and that the reveal is done really well. The line "It was the wrong anagram" has really stuck with me, Ncuti's delivery of what could very easily be a really silly line is great and sells it as a semi-scary moment.

[@deltadeconstructiondesign]

I think ultimately this finale just suffers from both too many characters and not enough episodes, every other RTD finale has had the benefit of ten episodes prior to the finale to build character dynamics like season 1 and four, and to leave enough breadcrumbs through the season without feeling overwhelmed with mystery like season three. I think if this season had the time to establish doctor and ruby more as well as had better hints, the Susan twist hint is engaging but it was completely irrelevant in the reveal. This would be like if RTD tried doing the stolen earth in season 3 it wouldnt have enough backing it up for the reveal to be earnt. That being said, this episode still did feel engaging the entire time which is good and for fans that have been following for a while the reveal did hit I know I was actually breathless for the entire credits which never happens but yea, not enough episodes to build story and tension but still fun and engaging which is probably what we needed for doctor who's big break into Disney as it gives old fans an opportunity to mesh with new fans and get them engaged in old lore to make them want to go back seeing how passionate the fandom is but idk that's my thoughts.

[@eveebunny]

I truly feel if they did more episodes this season could have been maybe better than season 1 with rose. But there just wasnt enough time to properly execute it!😢

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah it’s interesting- if you’re going by average hit rate of episodes, this really does rival RTD’s other series. The series had a lot of bangers and very few stinkers. But it falls short of a Series 1 or a Series 3 or a Series 4 purely from the drawbacks of its episode counts. It feels like a much less cohesive overall experience

[@nickmellish]

Funny you should mention the 'not-we' thing. I know a couple of people who have only seen the New Series and both of them were lost and underwhelmed by Sutekh. A real sense of "I'm sure *you* liked it but am I meant to know them?" They’ve set up gods in this series, but apparently not enough to let them make the proper connection, with the Doctor's "I know you!" revelation being the issue there. It suggests we're meant to know, which is a tall ask for a one-off villain from nearly 50 years ago.

[@PapaLuge]

I will say i dont know anything about Sutekh but this reveal has me hyped, its a similar time to in s3 i had no idea who the Master was, but the Doctor's reaction really sold it that this guy meant buisness, same as here, so while i dont know barely anything about him, im so on board with this being the finale.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Really glad to hear it

[@PapaLuge]

@@Joe_Brennan_ Here'shoping it sticks the landing next week i dont even really mind if the soluton is another RTD deus ex machina thing, as long as it is well set up and has emotioinal payoff or consequences, as imo thats always waht RTD finales were for.

[@nealjroberts4050]

I was intrigued why Harriet had such a brief welcome and naming. That was explained. RTF's attempts to make up for his near racist misuse of Martha and Mickey does help explain his overuse of Rose 2 and Carla.

[@sinom]

I literally said out loud "look at world enough and time" and then you say it less than 10 seconds later

[@drkenata5807]

I will likely never watch this episode again outside a full rewatch. The bulk of the episode’s runtime will never work again after this first watch and none of the setup will be necessary for future watches of the next episode. Thus, this episode just isn’t worth watch again, even before I get into the numerous issues I have with the episode itself.

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I feel like that’s actually pretty fair enough

[@drkenata5807]

Kind of a big weakness though for the first part of a two parter.

[@SeanS102]

I have liked all versions of Kate even when she was arguably thinner (although think this is a little overstated?)

[@dominictoo4511]

"I'm my fathers daughter and he's my dad" 🤣

[@Thecustardcreamcrew]

Joe I think we should kiss but like as a joke. Right on the lips with the curtains drawn after a romantic candle lit dinner where you gaze into my eyes and tell me there’s no one else as I nervously giggle. As a joke…

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Sounds pretty funny

[@Thecustardcreamcrew]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I want you

[@Thecustardcreamcrew]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I want you

[@ChristyAbbey]

Having no idea who Davros was got me to dive into classic Who in what is now the long ago of 2006. Finding where to start was another matter, though. I wound up getting frustrated trying to figure it out and just started at the beginning. Worthwhile endeavor. I'd say Pyramids of Mars was all you need for this, but... who was Victoria? Why's he going home? Why stop here first? Etc. And that's just the first five minutes.

[@wghtmf]

I suppose with the thing about the Doctor not having children yet, he could possibly mean his children haven't been born yet as of 2024 AD but they do already exist on his personal timeline. That didn't feel like the intention but you could interpret it that way if you don't like the implications, at least until it's followed up on (if it ever is). Or he could have just been lying due to sadness/regret, as you say

[@CritterSauce621]

I really wish that we got more time with all of the characters just chatting and existing together. I like them all but I don't know them that well. I'm just going off of vibes.

[@Natelu-Sama]

i really really loved this one. it is functionally half a story, but thats also something totally unique in the context of finales? closest examples would be army of ghosts and bad wolf i think, both of which i think this is stronger than. its just a really, really good building of tension. id argue that the susan triad stuff has that tension too- theres a countdown from the first time we see her, and while its not a countdown to anything dangerous in the story, i definitely clocked it instantly as what the kids call the classic chibnall ticking clock. im not sure a bad payoff in pt2 is gonna spoil that for me, though its obviously not gonna be as effective on a rewatch. totally agree about sutekh too- i was watching with 2 friends who only knew about sutekh cus i kept saying "i hope its sutekh", so theyd only seen his mask and knew the name but it worked very well for them not to grab a long hanging fruit, but its also very possible my standards are lowered by not having had good who in a series structure for the better half of a decade and i sour on this over time, but for now im a big fan

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

I think with Mel, RTD really leant into her characterisation she had during her brief time with the 6th doctor, rather than her season 24 characterisation (which was basically just screaming). There's no doubt she's changed, but I can really see how she's the same person who forced the Doctor to work out on an exercise bike and drink lots of carrot juice.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

I think the exact opposite. How fun.

[@hades.serapis]

the second her name started with an H and had no surname on the character/cast list, i knew she was a h.arbinger. It seems unlike the harbinger of maestro she was not 100% aware beforehand(?)

[@thefatcontrollershat]

Does anyone think that Kate Stewart in this episode feels a lot like Colonel Casey from the Thunderbirds reboot? Very similar vibes with the way she cares about everyone under their command.

[@nairrdlairrd]

I thought the implication of the Doctor having a granddaughter in Susan without having had kids because timey wimey was a very interesting concept at first thought, but after hearing your take I definitely agree that the Doctor’s character is stronger with the implied family he lost (your suggestions about him playing with Kate or coping with the loss would both work)

[@dansharp2860]

He's also mentioned several times through out New Who that he has been a dad and that his whole family is gone. He said the line "Dad to Dad" in Boom! this season. The line makes no sense even if season 14 is your jumping on point.

[@elliottwatt5297]

As one of Moff’s biggest defenders it’s hard but I have to agree with you about Kate, she feels more human. I don’t necessarily understand the point of changing her name from Stewart to Lethbridge-Stewart but that’s a minor gripe, I hope she gets more humanising moments going forward.

[@guygrist4436]

Well it was a fun episode but it feels like we have missed part of the season out. I’m not sure all the ground work has been lade out as firmly as could have been. Still that cliffhanger was really something and I liked everything to do with Time window. Oh and Mel I love you, I liked in your 80’s stories but now you’ve blossomed justice for Mel.

[@supremeoverlorde2109]

"This week is very dependent on next week," is exactly how I felt after watching the most recent episode. I enjoyed "The Legend of Ruby Sunday," but I ultimately think "The Empire of Death" will either make or break it because the former is primarily about the heavy suspense and buildup. The payoff is what will define all of that and either make it hold up on repeat viewings or fall on its face. I agree with you on Kate as well. I never cared about her at all in previous seasons, and yet suddenly since The Giggle I've been really enjoying her and the way she's been utilized.

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

Like the Movie Spiderverse 2. It's not a full thing.

[@RobTFilms]

Nice stubble man

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@RobTFilms]

@@Joe_Brennan_ the video was okay too

[@bigspongeyfan1]

This is an episode that for me worked better on rewatch. It felt a bit burdened by all that set up the first time I watched it and I was waiting for the plot to kick in. Knowing it was basically a trailer for next week, on second watch, I enjoyed it. Still probably my least favourite of the season. Not sure why they didn’t have Ruby in the window whilst the Doctor investigated Susan with Mel. Why was he helming both plots one after the other? Felt a bit clunky. But lots of moments to enjoy. And yeah completely agree with you about an inciting incident. The Doctor really trying to question a Susan splinter at the end of an unseen adventure would have been a great way to kick off the question of the episode. We didn’t need to powerpoint presentation.

[@STEVEBINNION1]

Who made the VHS

[@sacrificiallamb4568]

Security tape, said in the episode.

[@combogalis]

you always nail my exact thoughts

[@wabba67]

Regarding the Sutekh reveal: I expected the Doctor to go “who?” when the name was revealed. Naturally, I’ve not watched classic Who, so I had no idea who or what this character is. And is it just me, or did the Susan Triad bit felt slightly like a rehash of Vote Saxon or any of the other plans where the possibly evil character has a press conference and reveals their big plans for the whole world?

[@evelynstarshine8561]

I got to the end of the episode and just though, oh so we've had the set up where's the episode?

[@evelynstarshine8561]

Also the Triad-May dance, I don't know if we have a more recent reference for powerful middle aged women being told by PR guys how to be relatable? Also the trickster mention in the list of gods given by harbringer, had me going for a second RUBYS MUM IS THE TRICKSTER? because hooded figure but then it went to a giant dog direction

[@Joe_Brennan_]

I feel similarly, and I feel a little gaslit by people saying this is typical of part 1s

[@evelynstarshine8561]

@@Joe_Brennan_ I feel usually part 1s have had atleast a B plot that resolved while setting up for whats coming, not just set up but a story too?

[@undying_artv2]

I can’t wait to see what you think , I’ve not been this excited since pandorica opens

[@FlatSatire]

I still don't know why Rose Noble is there. Her past experience is making stuffed toys to sell on Ebay. Maybe she now has off-screen experience from traveling with "Uncle Doctor" in his Tardis? But this was distracting to have her shoved into Unit here. I also still think the Vlinx or whatever is useless so far.

[@ryanps1598]

People have been complaining all series that the episodes are overstuffed and ridiculously paced, then when an episode takes its time, slowly builds tension, and is a known part one, people still complain 😂 what do people actually want is what I’m left asking. Are we all just too used to instant payoff/reward these days that there’s no patience for a drawn out story any more? I also think it’s disingenuous to say we don’t learn anything or that there’s no subversion, the whole of the episode hinges on the subversion of who Susan Triad is, and that is a season-long arc that is paid off in this very episode! Is it perfect? Obviously not, but I think some of this is criticism for criticism’s sake (Love your content btw, this is more about how some of your criticisms of the episode seem to be echoed by other people that are known for having bad faith opinions on the season)

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Yeah some criticisms have just felt kind of unfair. I did make an effort to say that I’m not against dedicating this much time to setup in principle, and that I enjoyed some of it. But yeah, some of it didn’t do much for me.

[@ryanps1598]

@@Joe_Brennan_ yeah and that’s totally fair. I think a near-perfect comparison for this episode is Army of Ghosts. And I love that episode, but it is a set up piece in exactly the same way. There are two mystery boxes (the ghosts and the sphere), and the rest of the episode is just finding out what Torchwood is, which is a season-long arc resolution, albeit not a very interesting one. If anything, the mystery boxes in that story are ‘unearned’ , in that they spring up out of nowhere for the episode itself and Doomsday to be possible, whereas TLORS is at least accelerating things to do with threads that were planted even as far back as the 60th (Susan Twist, groaning TARDIS, snow, pantheon of gods etc). And then of course both episodes end with big reveals of returning villains. Even with childhood nostalgia it just felt sweeter in TLORS because that reveal has been a much slower burn. I guess that last bit is the bit that’s splitting people. It maybe feels like nothing is happening because it’s not ‘new’ problems to solve where it feels like something fresh is happening in front of us. But what is happening carries more weight because they’re threads that have been woven into a wider story, not just 2 completely new mysteries that are created and gone in the same 45 minutes. It’s subtly different storytelling and I think it works well, BUT it does put a lot of pressure on the finale…

[@scotsoulgem]

I feel like The Doctor not having had Susans parent yet doesnt mean he couldnt have had other kids I think if something happened to the kid or kids he has had to the point where he knew definitively that they were not the ones to have Susan, and that it must be from another future kid, that would also work.

[@dansharp2860]

I think it's pretty clear that what he meant is that he has never had kids not just Susan's parent. I hope he's lying like he did about Gallifrey being gone to a few people just to avoid the pain.

[@lorrainesheridan496]

After Sueketh sp gets defeated again perhaps we will have a doctor who does not cry all the time or chase men after knowing them five minutes rather than worry about their companion. Thankfully fam seems gone hurray!

[@akshaytrayner1960]

Great review I are so agree

[@Joe_Brennan_]

Thank you!