How does it work? Patents, animations. Ford Model T Transmission

[@SherwinGooch]

A few years ago I became interested in how the Model T transmission worked. No one at the car club knew. I could find very little on the internet about it, and what there was was not sufficient for me to figure out how it worked. Thank you for finally presenting this material in a clear and complete manner.

[@flivverchannel]

My pleasure, Glad it helped with your understanding. Cheers!

[@quantumleap359]

For the time, this was sophisticated transmission engineering. Very clever, robust and was in production for a long time. Thanks for a comprehensive and educational video.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@pimpompoom93726]

Fascinating video, many thanks. I worked as a manufacturing engineer for GM Hydramatic at their big Willow Run transmission plant in the 1990's for about a decade. Love this stuff!

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for sharing

[@TheGibby3340]

Wow this is a lot of work to produce this material. Greatly appreciated. Super interesting 🍻

[@flivverchannel]

Glad you liked it!

[@NebukedNezzer]

great video. I am 78 years old and grew up on the farm fixing and operating lots of machinery. I never rode in or drove a model T. but do understand the car and could operate it if I needed to do so.

[@flivverchannel]

I am glad you enjoyed the video. Model Ts are really fun to drive - so unique

[@rotaxtwin]

This really was engineered well for the purpose. Talk about staying power, they came up with some good fundamentals that are still with us now.

[@flivverchannel]

The engineers and designers were brilliant!

[@danielmazurek7559]

This transmission design is one of the best transmission designs ever developed. Henry Ford is truly a brilliant entrepreneur and businessman. Today's transmission engineers will never admit how clever and efficient this transmission design really is. This triple gear design is brilliant and strong. Yes it is hard to understand how it works but once you do the math you will realize this transmission design's superiority, even by today's standards.

[@flivverchannel]

Yep. Agree.

[@johnrickard8512]

Indeed it would seem to be an ideal transmission for an electric motor 🤔

[@KStewart-th4sk]

@@johnrickard8512 The triple gear planetary principle was used in 110V motors used in the Delta Leveling System on Canron Tampers used in leveling railroad track. EJ-5, Mark I, Mark II, Mark III Tampers are the Models i remember. With my horrible memory i can't recall who manufactured the motors. There was one on each side of the Delta Leveling System. Not sure if i have the correct name but fairly positive. There must be a Patent on that as well! Actually, Canron required/wanted the voltage regulator set at roughly 127 VAC. They had four 3-Phase Electric Motors running the workheads. For some reason 30HP each sticks in my memory but not positive. No planetary there though. Later Mark III Tampers went to hydraulic motor operated workheads. All the coils to operate hydraulic valves on the machine were electric and 50 Hertz. The machine lifted, cross leveled, and aligned railroad tracks although not all early models were equipped with liners. Oops i forgot, some only tamped ties. Those had no track lifting capabilities either. NONE of those were Mk III's though. All the Mk III's i ran across had lifting and lining abilities. The I's and II's which had lifting or lifting/lining abilities had a Torsion Beam; without, they just tamped ties.

[@kimjones5783]

I'm from Australia but my father grew up in Denver and Sacramento. Whilst living in Sacramento in the early 1920's, he and his Brother built a boat and installed a model T engine and gearbox. The problem with ordinary gearboxes in boats is reverse gear is too slow. He used to tell me about how, with a model T gearbox you could weld one of the bands and have a reverse that was full speed, like forward. I found this article very interesting, because I never fully understood how all this worked.

[@misters2837]

I have heard of this as well, one does not need low or a Slower than direct reverse....I am not sure how that would be done....Unfortunately the only people that I knew of this are all gone now.... :(

[@flivverchannel]

Interesting! I will look more closely at old lakeboat engines and trans

[@gwharton68]

This is a great video. About 70 years ago, I can remember driving a 1926 Motel T Touring Car (I think that was what it was called). It was very confusing operating the foot petals. But is was a lot of fun for a young kid.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@negativeindustrial]

My son is in his twenties but the first car he ever drove was a Model T that had long ago been turned into a hotrod. We let him drive it around the ranch a bit with his little brother in the passenger seat. The 8 ball shifter stuck so high up out of the floor, it was over both of their heads. They stayed in 1st.

[@aerialcat1]

I never truly understood how those things worked… now I have a clue. Thanks.

[@flivverchannel]

Glad to help in a small way.

[@notsmartenoughworkshop]

This is beautiful explanation of how these work! When I describe it to people at car shows and such, I describe it as a two-speed automatic that you manually shift. Just about the easiest thing in the world to drive, as long as you've never driven a car before. Perfect first car for the masses, and much easier to drive than anything that came after it until at least synchromesh gearing.

[@flivverchannel]

Totally agree. It really was perfect for its time in history.

[@gonesideways6621]

Chrysler had fluid drive transmissions you could shift with or with out depressing clutch.

[@notsmartenoughworkshop]

​@@gonesideways6621 True enough, but that was still at least 30 years after the Model T was introduced. And I can't say I have much experience with the more advanced or at least more modern transmission types, but didn't the early ones like the Vacamatic still need a synchromesh gearbox to work smoothly, at least until they switched to freewheeling?

[@HeyBirt]

Thanks! My dad tried to explain how the Model T transmission worked but I did not understand until now. My grandpa used to make farm machinery like buck rakes and buck loaders out of Model Ts. These had to Model T transmissions in series to get a really low gearing. Dad tried to explain how what worked to me too with all the pedals but I'm still not sure on that one :)

[@flivverchannel]

You're welcome!

[@fil1329]

Interesting Multiplying reduction gearing I see

[@flivverchannel]

@@fil1329 Cool, eh?

[@KStewart-th4sk]

It's almost as daunting trying to describe what he invented to apply for the patent, as his invention in the first place! Henry Ford was a brilliant man. You did a fantastic job explaining how it worked, graphics included, as well.

[@flivverchannel]

Thank you!

[@onefortheroad2291]

I’ve always found the transmission setup to be the most interesting part of the model T. I’ve watched many videos explaining its operation but this video is on another level. Amazing job, and your voice is perfect for these type of instructional/educational videos. Great job man!

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

[@donniebrown-mv7hb]

Another good video. The T transmission is a mysterious beast to most folks ....

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks Donnie. I have yet to rebuild one. That's a future adventure and learning opportunity!

[@russelmaclean4416]

Enjoyed your video on the T trans. An automatic transmission without the automatic shift mechanism. Seems like on the low and reverse ,one is over driven and one is under driven so because the triple gears are pinned together one has to add teeth and the other has to subtract teeth which gives forward and reverse with the engine turning in the same direction. I'm not an engineer so I co sould be wrong. Good that the T engine only turns about 2400 rpm or so wide open. That's quite a heavy mass when in high gear to be turning at today's modern engine red lines. The Ruxtell underdrive axel is a nice after market addition. Gives a gear between low and high. Also an extra low gear which might be of use if you had the make a tractor kit offered back in the day. There was a company at the time making a kit I think to replace the front axel and make the T four wheel drive. Saw an article in the Model T Times . It was a depo hack they had converted. A very scarce item . Looking forward to seeing your next video.

[@flivverchannel]

Russel. Thanks very much for the thoughts. You are correct - that 4-wheel-drive conversion is nifty! I wonder how much power actually gets to the wheels, with all those extra mechanical losses. When you start with less than 20 horsepower, and then siphon some away with mechanical losses...hmmm. It is interesting that Henry approved of the Ruxtel axle, and considered it one of the few worthwhile improvements to the T. Henry RARELY approved of accessories to his 'perfect' car.

[@bcgrittner]

Somewhere I read that the planetary transmission from the model T was considered for the model A with appropriate automation. The two speed automatic transmission was a real staple of cars from the 1950’s on.

[@flivverchannel]

That's interesting! That means the A was almost the first automatic.

[@ctg6734]

I mean, it really is a very impressive piece of engineering design.

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, we can really admire it!

[@markosterman419]

Great explanation … love the animation.

[@flivverchannel]

Without moving pictures, I have trouble understanding things...

[@markmurto]

Nice history lesson.

[@flivverchannel]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@crippleguy415]

Henry Ford was so close to making the first automatic transmission . If only he knew .

[@flivverchannel]

Haha. True!

[@n.mcneil4066]

Yes, the two speed automatics like the Powerglide & the Ultramatic, although more refined, operated on the same principle. The low band, reverse band & the High clutch, rathere than being manually operated, were operated by hydraulic cylinders (servos) & the brake band was replaced by a parking pawl.

[@flivverchannel]

@@n.mcneil4066 interesting!

[@davidclark3304]

This is an excellent video. Thanks.

[@flivverchannel]

Appreciate your compliment. Thanks for watching!

[@desparky]

Thankyou so much for such a clear explanation Steven. I have a Model A, and had a bit of an idea how the Model T worked, but your video is brilliant at demonstrating it. Thanks for taking the time to teach others like myself. Cheers from Australia.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks. My pleasure! Cheers from Canada

[@larryward1082]

I've always felt this was a very very interesting transmission and so simple in my way of thinking it's simple and very dependable it's a shame nowadays how complex everything has gotten and I'm 73 years old but I'm still I still learn too much stuff everyday so I guess we'll just keep on going

[@cdjhyoung]

If you have a modern car with an automatic transmission, it most likely has this design in the transmission, only with multiple combinations of these same planetary gear sets. Chevy's original Powerglide transmission two speed automatic transmission was literally this transmission with a speed and load sensor that automatically changed the high -low ratio by determining the speed of the car and engine.

[@flivverchannel]

Keep learning!

[@keithstudly6071]

FYI, Indy cars generally used modified T transmissions until the 1960's. If properly prepared they handled 400+ HP without breaking but they did have a separate clutch.

[@flivverchannel]

That's interesting. I will research that.

[@keithstudly6071]

I do know they were 2 speed and have heard drivers refer to them as model T transmissions. I suspect that they were using a modified version of the T planetary gear setup. Many had a modified case cast of aluminum. They may have just been 'inspired' by the T but I'm sure I heard AJ Foyt call them a T transmission in an interview. @@flivverchannel

[@dntlss]

I love technical stuff,people take this stuff for granted everyday like starting your car,at one time you had to get out and crank a handle,now you just press a button or some key fob and magic happens.

[@flivverchannel]

I hear you. Thanks for watching!

[@billlewis9740]

Really nice CAD work!

[@flivverchannel]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@billlewis9740]

@@flivverchannel If you don't mind me asking, what CAD package do you use? And did you actually measure and reproduce a real Model T transmission?

[@flivverchannel]

@@billlewis9740 I imported someone's attempt at a model of the T trans, from a service called GrabCAD. I used Solidworks to patch and imlrove the model to look aboit right. It is NOT accurate, but is representative

[@cheapgeek62]

My Ford hybrid uses a planetary gearset. Using two electric motors to vary the speed of the various components gives a wide and continuous gear ratio. This makes for a smooth change in speed and good performace and is only the size of a grapefruit. The differential is actual larger and more complicated mechanically than the transmission (not including the electric motors)

[@flivverchannel]

Incredible to put that much power thru such a small gear package.

[@sascha-s7v]

this really amazes me, i know very little about the model T, i am astounded that this is not that different than a 3 speed automatic from a 67 chevy impala

[@flivverchannel]

Design evolution! Fascinating, isn't it?

[@rowlybrown]

I remember my dad saying that Ford put the flywheel magnets in the T right up to the end, when they had batteries and starter motors. He said that the first time the transmission had to have the bands worked on they would take all the magnets out (not sure why). I know I had a lot of them to play with.

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, some people prefer the simplicity of the generator and battery, rather than ALSO having the magneto. The magneto was included, right to the end of production, so that you could start the car and run the car even if the battery was completely dead. Thanks for watching!

[@Thatdavemarsh]

Neat video. I would have liked a little more content on its operation (how to use it). If you’re interested in (hopefully) constructive criticism, my preference would also be for longer stills with voice over and less cuts to the “talking head” shots. I enjoy listening to the narrative while seeing the content. Thanks for making this content.

[@flivverchannel]

Great suggestions! There are lots of "how to drive a Model T" videos on KZbin. But maybe I can do one with more of this 'what's going on inside' at the same time. Thanks for the encouragement.

[@cadmanchannel]

Fantastic video!! Your graphics are soooo good!. Thank you for taking the time to explain this. I had to call a friend (who is a collector) to ask about how neutral is achieved for cranking. Ed Archer explained that linkage involved with setting the parking brake (at the rear wheels), also moves the left pedal into the neutral position.

[@flivverchannel]

Yeah, I didn't do a good job of explaining the pedal and handbrake linkages. I should do another video to explain those better. Thanks for watching!

[@cadmanchannel]

OK, you missed one thing, but the rest of it was great. I will never be as good at making videos as you are. I'm impressed.

[@flivverchannel]

@@cadmanchannel 😊

[@jimcosgrove292]

Good video. Thanks

[@flivverchannel]

Glad you liked it Jim!

[@bountyflyer]

Very nice explanation! Thank you! I gonna start teaching my Son how to drive in a month. Our 26 touring will be the first one followed by the 46 gmc dump truck…. “Double clutch tap the gas son”

[@flivverchannel]

Good luck with that! Ts are easy, but weird. Shift from Low to high at VERY LOW rpm. Low gear is just to get going walking speed.

[@bountyflyer]

@@flivverchannel driving a T for 15 years now. I love every minite of it! It’s like a farm machinery. Use it once a week when it’s not snowing or raining.

[@flivverchannel]

@@bountyflyer excellent. As Bruce at Klep's says "drive 'em if you got 'em"

[@-jimmyjames]

Good work!

[@flivverchannel]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@thomascatford2627]

Very interesting 👍🥃 good vid and explanation of the workings

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks! Cheers. 🍺

[@stevenwithanS]

That was a very good description.

[@flivverchannel]

Glad you think so!

[@daveo532]

Wow that is really hi-tech for the times.

[@flivverchannel]

It's remarkable, isn't it?

[@catchup4430]

You know, the sad thing is Henry Ford is turning over in his grave he built simple cars easy to maintain and afford now look at his company building over engineered expensive cars to maintain and people can’t afford them grace and peace

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, modern cars have lost the self maintainability of these early cars.

[@davidcoudriet8439]

The focus is overly on tech and useless gadgetry to sell vehicles instead of quality.

[@jpoppinga8417]

Hate to be the fly in the ointment but would the "kids" these days actually be capable of maintaining them anyway? I blame the public education system btw.....

[@flivverchannel]

@@jpoppinga8417 indeed. Fewer and fewer young people can tackle mechanical repairs. But all is not lost! It is incredible what success some have, tutored only by KZbin.

[@flivverchannel]

@@davidcoudriet8439 I read that smarthphone connectedness is a leading factor in making new car purchase decisions :0

[@kenesufernandez1281]

❤

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks

[@Teenagegoogoomuk]

Wished he'd put more thought into my 1948 2N but it's still runs today.

[@flivverchannel]

I've got a few 2N parts in my Model T - some 2N parts are easier to find today than T parts. Thanks for watching.

[@ohger1]

The Model T transmission is a two speed automatic transmission with a manual "valve" body (your feet).

[@flivverchannel]

True!

[@Bbbuddy]

Ironically, Toyota’s hybrid drives use a planetary gearset to control the relative speeds of the engine and two electric motor/generators, one of which is directly connected to the drive wheels.

[@flivverchannel]

Other than computers and electronics, humans haven't invented much that's truly 'new' in the last 100 years. I'll try to find some diagrams of that Toyota hybrid drive; sounds interesting.

[@jamesgeorge4874]

It only uses planetary gears for reduction of output speed / increase of output torque. There is no "shifting" , only one ratio, and no brake bands. It is geared directly to the motor/generator in the "transmission" , the generator that is attached to the engine crankshaft is not connected (mechanically) to the transmission.

[@brianb-p6586]

no, @@jamesgeorge4874, the planetary gear set in a Toyota Synergy Hybrid Drive is not just a reduction gear set. It acts as a power splitter, allowing the ratio between engine and output speeds to vary continuously by controlling the speed of one of the electric motor-generators (designated "MG1" in Toyota's technical descriptions). While there is only one planetary set in the power splitter, the ratio of input to output speeds is not fixed.

[@brianb-p6586]

@@flivverchannel keep in mind that the Toyota design uses the planetary gear set as a power splitter. This is long-established design (at least several decades older than Toyota hybrids), and is used in other hybrid car transmissions including the GM models such as the Two-Mode and Voltec (used in the Chevrolet Volt) and many Ford hybrid models.

[@brianb-p6586]

In the Toyota HSD design and every other power-split hybrid,@@jamesgeorge4874, both motor-generators and the engine are all mechanically connected to each other, and none are connected directly to the engine's crankshaft. In the simplest version (such as a Prius), MG2 is connected to the output at a fixed drive ratio; the engine, MG1, and the output to the final reduction gearing are connected to the planetary power splitter. In normal operation with the engine running the power splitter divides mechanical power flow between the output and MG1, while the electrical output of MG1 powers MG2. The battery accepts surplus power (from MG1) or provides extra power (to MG2) allow the engine output to vary less than the load of driving the vehicle. There are also a few series hybrids (not from Toyota). In a series hybrid the engine drives a generator (only), and the generator electrical output (plus or minus any battery discharging or charging) drives the electric motors which drive the wheels. Gearing in these systems may be planetary or parallel, but there are no planetary power splitters involved.

[@pablo4015]

Muy bueno!!

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@scottmacleod6301]

Adding a ruckstell 2 speed axle is supposed to really make it go, my dad had one but I couldn't get him to install it on his 21' pickup.

[@flivverchannel]

I would love to try driving a Ruckstell equipped T!

[@MichaelJohnson-cm4wp]

I have a 24 Model T roadster..In order to apply the brake(right pedal) you have to have the left pedal (High neutral Low ) held in the neutral position. Because if it is not in neutral it will stall the engine. So you must use 2 feet to brake the car.. Same with reverse (Middle)..The neutral position must be held (left pedal) and then push the center pedal to create reverse.. I have Rocky mountain brakes on my T..A big handle on the left of the driver that when pulled backwards, puts the left pedal in the neutral position and applies band brakes on the rear axle So I don't even use the right pedal..Just the handle..When you pull back a small amount of the handle, it will engage neutral and you can use that to engage reverse.. So you are only using one foot for everything you need..Brake(No pedals needed for that with the RM brakes)..Reverse with the handle in neutral.. Rocky mountain brakes really were an improvement!!

[@flivverchannel]

There is no problem braking with only one foot at first, as the engine-and-car slow together. But you are perfectly correct that it takes two feet to come to a stop or the car will stall. Or one foot and pull the hand-brake lever to mid position (which forces the high/low pedal into middle neutral. I am only passingly familiar with Rocky Mountain brakes. Most installations that I have seen connect the actuator rods to the brake pedal. But interesting that your Rocky Mountain brakes are only connected to the hand brake lever. Thanks for the great disucssion!

[@chamberizer]

I think you left an important part out - at least as I understand the transmission to work: It is all about the rotation of the triple stack gears on their shafts - relative to the flywheel rotation, which they are mounted. The three gears turn together as one unit mounted on shafts (they can rotate on their respective shafts) attached perpendicular to the flywheel. The one gear is for output it is connected to final drive. The other two gears are low speed & reverse - when either the low speed band or reverse band are engaged - the respective center gear is held stationary - thus the triple stack gears will either turn faster or slower than the flywheel. This is the only difference between how low speed & reverse operate? when the triple stack gears are turning faster than the flywheel this is reverse? It was explained to me years ago. The multi plate clutch provides direct drive for top speed.

[@flivverchannel]

The triple gears are weird. Are they 'triple gears' because there is 3 of them, or are they 'triple gears' because each one has three pitch diameters? I guess they are really triple triple gears... Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. I intend to study the transmission even more closely when I overhaul one. Maybe I'll do a follow-up video.

[@chamberizer]

@@flivverchannel I was looking at your cross section view & it looks like three separate gears that are held together, probably with some kind of screws. The three gears have different pitch diameter. It is probably easier to hob the gears separately & then assemble into one unit. All three turn together. Years ago, I was looking at a KZbin that showed how a Model T transmission works. I commented to the creator of the KZbin that I did not understand how it goes in reverse, because 1st (low speed) & reverse seem to operate/function in the same manner. He then sent me a detailed description of how the triple gears work. My description is only from memory. Basically, the triple gears rotate with the flywheel - but are on their individual shafts. It is how they rotate on their individual shafts that determines low speed or reverse - they can turn CCW or CW on the individual shafts, this creates a forward or reverse. I guess in high speed (direct drive) the triple gears are not revolving on their individual shafts but are still turning with the flywheel. I hope that what I said makes sense? Anyway, that person told me that their are supposedly Model T experts that don't really understand how the T transmission works. Also, I remember in school the teacher was talking about gears &.mentioned that the Model T used Cycloid toothed gears instead of Involute tooth form. Almost all machinery uses Involute gears, so it is a little unusual. Thanks for making the KZbin!

[@larryanderson8049]

yes, it must be the ratio differences between low and reverse gear sets causing the triple gears to run in either direction I cannot visualize the rotating carrier with gears going all directions. Your explanation is by far the best one I have found....thanks@@chamberizer

[@chamberizer]

@@larryanderson8049 Yes, it is fascinating!

[@zachary3777]

​@@larryanderson8049the carrier is always rotating in the same direction. When the green sun gear is locked by the brake band, it forces the planets to rotate. Since the planets have stepped diameters, the pitch velocities are different. Since the green planet is locked to a stationary gear, the smaller planet will give a positive speed, while the larger planet gives a negative speed.

[@martin-vv9lf]

Could this transmission be used in a modern pivot steer loader? Seems like it could be improved by changing the design to disc brakes instead of the drum brakes, and using servos to take the strain off the pedals.

[@flivverchannel]

In concept, sure! But remember thus transmission only handles 20 horsepower. You might be wiser to look at modern automatics that handle higher power. Thanks for watching!

[@gaujio]

What makes exactly the difference from Low gear to Reverse gear? At first look the tripple planet will give the same direktion of Rotation of the Output shaft when you are stoping those brakedrums. Is there any combination with the clutch from high gear or the output brake?

[@flivverchannel]

Stay tuned and subscribe. I am making a specific video better explaining reverse. Thanks for commenting!

[@brianallen9810]

To me it looks like the 3 speed transmission from a bicycle ( Sturmey Archer AW ) except much bigger. Even down to the spring.

[@flivverchannel]

I had to look up some tech info on those. Very similar. Thanks for watching.

[@JIm-w1b]

What did you do, when you wanted to start the motor or let it idle, if you didn't have a neutral? As I understand it, you would have to hold the pedal halfway down. And what did you do if you wanted to push a stalled car? I can't see how you could get by, without being able to shift into a neutral like a modern manual transmission

[@flivverchannel]

The handbrake lever has a linkage to hold the left pedal half way down, when the handbrake lever is in it's mid position. This way, none of the bands are gripping the drums, AND the multi-plate clutch is disengaged. In this arrangement you can push, or start, the car.

[@melclark1066]

Thank you. I have always wondered how it works. Where does the handbrake come into this, as I have seen people saying to set it half way (for starting?)😎

[@n.mcneil4066]

The handbrake was to your left & it was a parking brake. It applied the brake shoes in the drums on the rear wheels. The brake in the transmission was used to stop the car.

[@melclark1066]

Thanks for the comment. I have since found that the handbrake has a cam on it which puts the gearbox into neutral.🙂🙂@@n.mcneil4066

[@carabela125]

@@melclark1066 That would be necessary, since the engine was hand cranked without a foot on the left pedal in neutral.

[@brianb-p6586]

Many electric vehicle drive units also use a planetary reduction gear design... although in almost all cases it is always engaged, and does not shift. The Volkswagen Group J1 platform of the Porsche Taycan and Audi e-tron GT has a two-speed planetary transmission (shifted by multi-plate hydraulic clutch) in the rear drive unit.

[@flivverchannel]

Interesting.

[@brianb-p6586]

​@retiredbore378 believe it or not, Tesla is not the only EV manufacturer. Yes, Tesla uses parallel gears (in two stages in the cars, three stages in the Semi to get a higher reduction ratio), and so do the Nissan Leaf and various other makes and models. What I said is that many - not all - EVs use planetary gearsets; examples include the Ford Mach E and some Volkswagens. Whether parallel or planetary, all production car transmission gears are helically cut - straight-cut gears are too noisy.

[@brianb-p6586]

​@@retiredbore378the steam turbine reference is valid, but obscure. Typical parallel-shaft EV transaxle are just like a simple conventional transverse manual transaxle, minus all of the unnecessary parts: clutch, synchros, shift mechanism, and all but second gear. Of course the case is just big enough to hold the few remaining components: input shaft with one gear, output shaft with one driven gear and one driving gear, and final assembly of differential with a ring gear bolted to its case.

[@brianb-p6586]

I don't doubt your knowledge of gears,@dbore378... just cars, specifically EVs. It's a little weird for a non-Tesla owner to quote Tesla specs, but there's a lot of information about Teslas in public sources. What have you owned? In addition to the first three examples (not exhaustive list) that I mentioned, planetary gearboxes have also used in EVs by Chevrolet (Spark), Jaguar, other VW Group models, and Ford... in both the E-Transit (which uses the same drive unit as the Mach E) and the mass-production F-150 Lightning. There are likely more that I haven't noticed. That's multiple manufacturers and at least tens of thousands of cars now (but probably hundreds of thousands), and the Lightning alone will account for tens of thousands per year. Yes, that's "many EVs". By the way, if your intention was to say that the maximum ratio of a single parallel gearing stage in a steam turbine ship is 10:1, and compare that to Tesla's practice, I'll note that no EV uses a ratio that high for a single stage because it technically possible but in practice not feasible. Older Tesla Model S transaxles had an overall reduction ratio of 9.734:1 or 9.325:1 (depending which of three different drive units), but that was always in two stages; one axle of the Semi is (or at least initially was - specs change) 23:1, but in three stages so around 3:1 per stage. Other brands tend to lower overall ratios, typically around 8:1, and again in two stages. Planetary reduction transaxles use a single planetary set, typically for a similar overall ratio, although is some cases (such as the Ford F-150 Lightning) it is a compound gear set.

[@plywoodpalaceToddTouchberry]

Good info. Still over my head lol

[@flivverchannel]

I'll have to try harder next time....

[@plywoodpalaceToddTouchberry]

@flivverchannel you did just fine! Perhaps it's me. Unfortunately we have a house full of covid so I'm probably not thinking straight. I'll get with you next week about a part 2.

[@flivverchannel]

Get well soon@@plywoodpalaceToddTouchberry

[@mikep490]

This is an interesting design. I hope you have more on this to come. Specifically, how does the tranny disengage (go into neutral)? Obviously the forward gears would need to disengage when pressing the reverse lever and both disengage when hitting the brake. I'd assume the wet clutch serves that purpose? Also, how does the brake work when parked? Thank you.

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, I hope to dive even deeper in the future. For now... there is no true disengaged neutral. If none of the bands are tightened on the drum, and if the multiplate clutch is disengaged, then the triple gears do their dance to allow the flywheel to spin while the driveshaft is stationary. In 'neutral' gears and deuns are turning and any drag tends to try to creep the car forwards...

[@Heckle1903]

So when you go into reverse how does the hi speed clutch pack disconnect? Is there an interconnecting cam or something?

[@flivverchannel]

There is no interconnection between reverse and the high speed clutch pack. Operationally, one is meant to ensure that 'neutral' is selected before engaging reverse. If neutral is NOT preselected, then reverse will stall the engine.

[@1marcelfilms]

Truly a theft deterrent these days.

[@flivverchannel]

True 🤣

[@KeithWilson-ch3cf]

I never understood how they worked.. thanks

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@michaelbacon561]

I can't help thinking that a development of this with more ratios would have been a better solution than the complicated and troublesome double clutch automatics that now proliferate. It would be so close to a "conventional" hydraulic automatic, which now can provide up to 10 ratios (too many??), but could then dispense with the torque converter. I don't know about efficiencies - is there a lot of friction in a planetary gear set?

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, the T Transmission is quite draggy in Low and Reverse. The Triple Gears always in mesh and concentric Drums always rotating relative to one another, generates a lot of friction

[@slothzombi307]

I often wonder if and why this design couldn't have continued to be improved into a manual-automatic type of transmission. The jump into unsynchronized manual crunch-boxes, and then the extremely complicated 2 speed powerglides baffles me. This method seems like it could be tweaked to be easier to learn and more reliable.

[@flivverchannel]

It would be interdiction to see a modem embodiment of this; but I have not seen one attempted.

[@PeterMurphy-o1o]

Question . . . Is it ok to use the low speed band to help slow the car equivalent to gearing down in a manual transmission, or possibly even using the low speed and brake pedal at the same time?

[@flivverchannel]

If you use the low band to slow the car, it will increase wear on the low band and drum, of course. It also puts loads through all the gears. If done aggressively, it could put more 'equivalent' horsepower through the transmission than the engine is able to, so overload is possible. To slow from High to Low, I would recommend First use engine braking with the throttle closed and the timing retarded, Then brake with the brake pedal until the engine revs match the speed of the car for Low, Then depress the Low pedal while matching the revs with throttle and returning the timing to normal. Thanks for watching!

[@deirdremacinnes780]

Incredible engineering, they had nothing to copy from. Also, horse and buggy or cart to a model T, rev the engine and SLOWLY slide the handbrake off you are on the way, Love my Ts. Since about 1959. ALLAMERICANAL NZ.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@IIGrayfoxII]

With the brake drum, do the brake bands need replacing?

[@flivverchannel]

Yes, the bands wear like a brake shoe. They need adjustment, and ultimately, re-lining. The original linings were cotton or wood! Lately, Kevlar is also used.

[@stanbest3743]

The electricaly controlled overdrives common on british sports cars in tje last century use a similar planetary set. Only two of the potential ratios are used. Direct drive where the entire gear set rotates as a solid unit and an aprox 0.8 to 1 step up via the planetary gears.

[@flivverchannel]

Neat! I didn't know that. I'll look it up.

[@andrerousseau5730]

What I want to know, did any early aviation pioneer adapt the FORD planetary transmission to drive a multi-speed propeller? Any information....?

[@flivverchannel]

I have never heard of this. Interesting tho.

[@andrerousseau5730]

@@flivverchannel It is: a very obscure branch of aviation technology. Most of the hits you'll find on GOOGLE came from me. Most of the multi-speed propeller reduction gearbox developments occurred immediate pre-WW2 and on into WW2 in America and Britain. Never used in production aero-engines but several experimental prototypes were made. Only two were ever flight-tested, 1st at McCook Field, Ohio using adapted Liberty engine and the 2nd in England with a ROLLS-ROYCE Eagle engine. A Model T transmission conversion would have been a good candidate for experimentation, that's why I asked. Ask around, you might get lucky. Cheers.

[@flivverchannel]

@@andrerousseau5730 thanks!

[@rowanflynn462]

The concept doesn't seem practical to me when variable pitch propellers were available. A lot of extra weight and complexity for little if any gain.

[@andrerousseau5730]

Hi Rowan, No, no. You misunderstand.; Progress with the multi-speed propeller was paced with general developments in aircraft propulsion. Practical variable-pitch propellers simply weren't available in the pioneering days and aero-engines were pathetically weak so more aggressively pitched propeller blades couldn't function as it would over-tax the engine on take-off. However, after the introduction of tetra-ethyl lead additive, power outputs of aero-engines underwent an exponential rise. Simultaneously, with the onset of war, the US Army air corps anticipated the need for super-heavy, long-range trans-Atlantic bombers for which massive engines (eg the STUDEBAKER XH-9350) would be required. The minimum fuel-consumption operating point of these engines corresponded to a shaft speed too low for efficient propeller operation, therefore the proposed solution was an extra step-up gear-ratio in the transmission. Think of it as the aero-engine equivalent of an automobile over-drive gear stage.

[@johns7734]

Something I still don't understand is, if the left pedal is pressed half way for neutral, how do you start it? With nobody on the pedals, it sounds like you would be starting it in high gear.

[@flivverchannel]

There is a linkage attached to the left pedal which ensures that the high gear multiplate clutch is disengaged when you are either at the neutral mid position or all the way down

[@johns7734]

@@flivverchannel I got that. But does that mean that starting the engine is a two person operation? If not, how is it kept in neutral while you are outside the car cranking on the engine?

[@flivverchannel]

@@johns7734 ah! The handbrake lever also has a linkage. When the hand brake is on, the trans is forced in neutral, holding it exactly like a middle left pedal does.

[@johns7734]

@@flivverchannel That explains it! Thanks. I knew that there had to be something.

[@tahustvedt]

Clever system.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching.

[@jimjohnson9028]

What is the maximum hp it can handle

[@flivverchannel]

The Model T only produced 20hp. Some people have used this transmission with more powerful engines, but eventually the band and drum system, or the multi plate clutch, gives way.

[@daleolson3506]

Did the dodge brothers actually design this?

[@flivverchannel]

I don't know. Curious. Henry Ford often had designers fleshing out the designs that he layer patented, so maybe?

[@ZodeusBloomberg]

How does the reverse work exactly I know people who are 65 and STLL don’t understand it and they have been working on them since they were at least 30

[@flivverchannel]

Reverse is kinda difficult to explain in words. My animations explain it better - but I will try. With the output of the crankshaft turning the planet gears forwards, they spin against the output shaft gear. By locking the reverse drum, since it is also engaged with the planet gears at a very different ration, they can spin such that they turn the output shaft gear reverse direction. Hope that helps.

[@ZodeusBloomberg]

@@flivverchannel I did not think you would actually respond lol I am a enthusiast myself and have a 23 touring car it’s more of a joke I like to ask people because nobody can ever explain it that I’ve found.

[@flivverchannel]

@@ZodeusBloomberg 😅

[@charleshaggard4341]

Looks like there was almost as many individual parts in the transmission as there were in the rest of the car. Think of how many skilled machinist on manual lathes to cut all those teeth and gears.

[@flivverchannel]

Amazing isn't it?

[@tonyrich7011]

It’s like the Ford Tri-Motor air craft. You can tell a ford Pilot by his three arms….

[@flivverchannel]

Interesting. Were they difficult to fly?

[@TheReadBaron91]

@@flivverchannelI’ve flown on one and spoke to the pilot, slow is what they are lol 80 knots all phases of flight. Not too hard to fly, but flies like a boat.

[@Shadow0fd3ath24]

i bet many people traded in or sold their Ts as fast as they could once a sliding gear typical clutch model A came around

[@flivverchannel]

Ts could be bought for very little $ in the 40s and 50s. Nobody wanted that 'old' stuff anymore.

[@davidwest2773]

Well that's slightly misleading. Seems to me the Dodge brothers were the engineers that invented that transmission, and after Henry put the screws to them they opened their own automotive company.

[@flivverchannel]

Could be. Can you point me to some references on that?

[@danbenson7587]

A good patent lawyer drafts the patent, returns it to the inventor for sign off, and the inventor doesn’t recognize his own idea.

[@flivverchannel]

😂

[@carlthornton3076]

Very Good!... #206 ✝ {3-10-2024)

[@flivverchannel]

.

[@edilsonmartins6653]

Bons tempos em que os carros não eram essas porcarias descartáveis de hoje.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching and commenting. I also admire the repairability of the antique cars. Everything can be serviced, repaired, or replaced.

[@henryhampton4496]

I’ve got a model T and that transmission is a piece of junk. You’ve got these cotton pants that go around and make the thing run and they’re always wearing out all the rivets get bad and scar the drum. Then you have to Replace the drum.no breaks except for the cotton bands that goes around the drum and slows it down a little if the hill is to steep it does not have enough power to climb it you can turn and back up the hill other than that it kind of fun to drive.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@MarcoParisi9804]

I still don't get the connection between this type of gearbox and the fact that the engine can push the car easily at low RPM. Sorry but English is not my language so it's more complicated to understand ^-^

[@flivverchannel]

This type of transmission has enormous rotating mass, so it effectively becomes a very heavy flywheel. A heavy flywheel helps an engine run smoothly at very low RPM.

[@MarcoParisi9804]

@@flivverchannel ok so is up to the flywheel... By the way if this gearbox has so much rotating mass it seems not to be an efficient choice, right? I mean the more mass there's between the engine and the wheels and the more energy is dissipated!

[@flivverchannel]

@@MarcoParisi9804 a heavy flywheel is complelety efficient and stores rotating energy. But it makes engine acceleration and deceleration slower.

[@MarcoParisi9804]

@@flivverchannel Got It, thank you very much, appreciate it!

[@dsm9785]

Elon Musk must have an army of engineers writing his patents 😅

[@flivverchannel]

No doubt!

[@UncleRobsGarage]

Dodge brothers built the model fords and owned 10% of ford!

[@flivverchannel]

I understand they were a key part of the early Ford team.

[@danieloblinger1199]

There is no need to show a picture of the commentator. Using the full screen for the diagrams would be more effective.

[@flivverchannel]

Thanks for the suggestion.

[@Justice4NounTTP]

And you know where the folks came from who designed it? The lads name is G. J. AND came from the H. Not from the U. SA. Sadly. 😅😊😮😢😂❤

[@flivverchannel]

Interesting. Can you link me to some references on this?

[@Justice4NounTTP]

@@flivverchannel Jozsef Galamb. I try to find you some English links to this.

[@gonesideways6621]

Ford caught his transmission engineers doing nothing and fired them he wouldn't allow new innovation as model-t according to Ford was all that would ever be needed.

[@flivverchannel]

😅

[@robertklein1316]

A time and a place for everything, but it was carried on far too long and almost destroyed the company. Henry wasn't going to pay anyone a license fee to produce a better idea. He waited almost ten years after the starter was available before the T, got one, and we won't even mention hydraulic brakes.

[@flivverchannel]

😂

[@FredJones-lo2df]

😂😂😂 today FORD can not produce a reliable TRANSMISSION, OMG❤😂😂😂😂😂

[@flivverchannel]

😅

[@Bbbuddy]

Nope. I still don’t understand it.

[@flivverchannel]

🤣 Guess I failed. I'll have to seek enlightenment, and try again; it's difficult to explain. Thanks for watching!

[@Allegronaut]

I couldn't get through this video because of the Mr. Roger's dialog with continual hillbilly music interruptions.

[@flivverchannel]

-

[@TheReadBaron91]

1.5 speed helps

[@flivverchannel]

@@TheReadBaron91 😂

[@KStewart-th4sk]

@Allegronaut Go somewhere else then. You are the only bellyacher i have seen. Don't like the music, too bad. Take your "hillbilly" insults with you and get lost.

[@castirondude]

What I don't understand is the need to hold a pedal to be in neutral. Didn't a lot of these T's need to be started with a hand crank from the front of the vehicle? Wouldn't that be a Darwinist move when the transmission is always in gear?

[@flivverchannel]

True! And Ts have injured and killed owners over the last century. Yes, the shifter pedal must be held in the middle position for neutral... To start, there is a linkage on the handbrake lever to force the pedal to neutral. But it can fail, and then the car lunges forward...

[@josephsanchez5351]

Worse mileage !

[@flivverchannel]

.