How Does Polarized Training Really Work? | GTN Talks Science With Stephen Seiler

[@gtn]

Do you incorporate the 80/20 method into your training? Let us know 👇

[@ngdawgs1]

I was given an 80/20 plan for one of my half IM’s. I think it helped me slow things down a bit when I had to. Bad habit of wanting to push every workout. Successfully completed the half, so I say it works 💪🏽😎.

[@gabouel]

I trained for a year using 80/20 exclusively running and preparing for a marathon. I got very good at running slowly for a long time, and very good at running fast for short intervals. But my fitness at marathon race pace barely improved. I've now been back training based on feel for 10 months (probably lot of Z3, not so fast in the intervals) and i got a PR in 5, 10 and 21k. I would say the method doesnt work for everybody, however it did teach me how to listen to my body, and to slow down when i feel tired.

[@andyzero33]

Currently using an 80/20 plan for a full IM, 8 weeks to go now and its ramped up big time!

[@seascape]

Are days off considered part of the 80? I only workout 4-5 days a week, at a high intensity, and walk for an hour the other days. Because this video makes sense, I’m starting polarized training and trying to figure out my workout schedule.

[@47Seagull]

Just starting, 17 days in.......and so frustrating and SOOOO hard. It's taking so much perseverance not to go over my HR zones. But I'll get there. 🤞

[@omarnegronsantiago9283]

I tried 80/20 just shy of a full year. The best benefit was that I stayed injury free, and found had more energy for multiple sessions at day. The downside was that I did not got significant faster. I just became really efficient at running slow…

[@justincooper9683]

Sounds like you did your 20% wrong if that was the case.

[@jhands1988]

If you’re doing doubles then either of those sessions are in the 80%.

[@perman07]

I don't think the actual ratio is the most important. If 60-90% of the sessions are easy, you're in the right ballpark. If you were recovered, then you can try dialing it up.

[@kostar500]

It means you are still at that speed with roughly the same heart rate zones… something is not right

[@innesdunbar]

The explanation of the hard workout not including the warm up cool down was very helpful. It’s easy just to look at average HR at the end of a run and go with that.

[@JBuchmann]

I like how he clarified that it's a ratio of sessions, not minutes. So I realized now that I'm currently doing high intensity workouts 2 days a week. So 2 out of 7 days is about equivalent to 70/30. Gonna have to make some adjustments... and to start, stop thinking about my workouts in 7 day periods, but instead try 14 day periods, as he mentioned. Thanks for having Dr. Seiler on, GTN!

[@ironmantooltime]

If you have a rest day its 2/6 ...

[@JBuchmann]

@@ironmantooltime Oh, ok, I thought rest days counted as part of "easy" days. Thx.

[@bhagathkumar5367]

I do 1 tempo, 1easy, 1interval and 1Long run... 2 easy strength and conditioning...like yoga and light body weight exercises... 1 complete rest day. So It's 30/70 😭😭😭

[@Cookefan59]

The physiological aspect of this should always be discussed at to what happens at the cellular level with this kind of training. These concepts are discussed in gory detail in the book “80/20 Triathlon Training” by Mat Fitzgerald and David Warden. It’s an excellent read and has a full set of programs for different levels of athletes. Even though I am in my 60s, I have benefited from employing this concept on my training the past few years. If you’re a serious athlete this is MUST reading. You can bet that those who do have a leg up on those who don’t.

[@grantmckay7014]

For running, I do 7 easy runs, a long run at easy/steady and two interval session per week. Improved my 5km time from 20:30 to 17:49 in 18 months. Quickest I have been in around 30 yrs. The formula works for me.

[@madshansson20]

I try to incorporate it in my training, and imo i think it works quite well. But i really like the idea of 14 days blocks. Think i’ll try to do my planning like that for a while

[@tomh9064]

That is so useful. I love the 14 day ‘block’ to plan workouts. It’s something I struggle with fitting everything in 7 days!

[@michaelmapple8201]

That really helped and eased my mind since if I want to train let's say 10-15h/week, working 2-3h above anaerobic threshold to get that 20 % sounds devastating

[@eddydap]

It's not in hours, but over different workouts. If you train 5 times per week, one of those 5 is high intensity. In that training you accumulate 30-40 min above anaerobic threshold (which is TOUGH), where the total time for this training is - let's say - 60min. The other 4 workouts are easy, although some can be long; let's say 4h, 3h, 1h, 1h. Total training time for a week is then 10h of which 30-40min (5%-6.5%) are truly high intensity minutes.

[@michaelmapple8201]

@@eddydap that's what I said; it eased my mind that it doesn't mean I have to be 20% of the time actually on anaerobic treshold or beyond.

[@eddydap]

@@michaelmapple8201 ah ok, great to hear. I understood your comment wrong I guess.

[@winklertribe5268]

Thanks for this episode!!! I have struggled to get my training balance right- changing to a 14 day training cycle is game changing for me!

[@Bb5y]

Heather was awesome. Great to see dr stephen seiler here too.

[@perro0076]

Not lactate to build up. Way lower than that. Where cortisol (the fight or flight hormone) begins to kick in. We're talking no higher than Zone 2. The other end, only once every other week, the first week is a HIIT session with all 3 disciplines one after the other. Multiple blasts until your heart comes out of your throat. On the alternate week, at race pace .... do the full race distance at the speed you need to be doing to win your event .... now ..... if you only want to take part ...... The days in between, all 3 disciplines one after the other, the full distance, but in Zone 2, weight training and sleep (my fab part). That's my program that is working for me. 😂😂😂 I almost forgot. Don't forget you can't out train a bad diet. Not possible.

[@morganhaynes6125]

The "14 Day Micro Cycle" concept is life altering for me.

[@trinerd]

Same here

[@morganhaynes6125]

Oh, man. Brilliant interview. Brilliant info.

[@finproductions]

If I strength train 2 or 3 times a week too, do I include those in the 80/20 plan along with the running/cycling/swim sessions or separate? Garmin shows them as anaerobic sessions.

[@KeithRobertson57]

Nice still image of Cyfrwy Arete on Cader Idris (mid-Wales) there too 👍🏻 Excellent route 😎

[@carlbyronrodgers]

Very interesting and informative.

[@Avianthro]

Maybe I'm a bit hard-headed here, but Dr. Seiler didn't convince me that an entire session is to be classified according to its main intent. I mean that if you do a session which incorporates a significant high-intensity period that also happens to be about 20% (in terms of intensity X time) of the total session that whole session must go into the high-intensity bucket. Why is the 80% low-intensity part of the session not counted as such in your 80-20 accounting? Also, another burning Q: What is the nature of the training response we get from low-intensity work that is not something we also get from high intensity? When you do high-intensity aren't you also stimulating all the systems you do at lower? I'm not thinking that one should do nothing but high-intensity, but I am thinking that low intensity isn't really so much about training as it is about recovering, not overloading the system. Maybe a low-intensity longer session just keeps the body active without overloading it, without really training it?

[@elanzini]

I haven't fully understood the part about the training with some intervals in the middle being ALL in high-intensity zone, including the warmup / cooldown. How are you supposed to structure the trainings? If that interval workout takes 90 minutes, you would need 90 * 4 = 360 minutes of low-intensity activity. So, you actually were in zones > 2 only for 24 minutes (6 * 4 minutes) out of 450 minutes, which is ~5%. That seems to be too little. Did I misunderstand?

[@basajaunnn]

Do you guys have a discord!?

[@jobanski]

Heather Fell is so lovely…😍 ehem…in a very professional way!

[@likemarksee]

We finally got an answer to the question about what does 80/20 actually mean.

[@trbeyond]

Great information with one of the best. But having the camera of a video looking at the MacBook screen ? Common GTN …

[@edmundgerald5764]

I like your videos but on this occasion I have to disagree with the title as it does not correspond with the content. The video did not state whether 80/20 works or not, it went on to say what it is, period. I was hoping for some evidence that polarised training actually "works" ie it translates into measurable fitness gains, such as faster running times. This is absent in the video. Further, does polarised training "work" for all ages? Does it elicit the same physiological response across different age groups or is it a mere presumption that 80/20 benefits all age groups equally? If does benefit all age groups, to what extent do the benefits differ in each age group? And if there is a difference, ie a certain age group derives lesser benefits, then is it better for that age group to engage more in zone 3 instead so as to see proportionately more gains than 80/20 would yield? These are some of the things the title of the video should be answering. But do keep the videos coming, I generally find them constructive one way or another.

[@niekversteege]

I can recommend Dylan Johnsons videos on youtube, also with Dr. Stephen Seiler. They go into a lot more depth. And also into the science behind it.

[@PhiyackYuh]

Theres no one size fits all. You know that right? Every single human respond differently with their abilities. Science will never make definite answers if you read any scientific literature out there. If i give you red zone 80% for most of your workout i can guarantee you will blow up in a matter of time. The answer you are looking for is “it depends”

[@victoryu7820]

@@niekversteege I agree - His videos have the supporting science for the biking perspective

[@Emiljon]

I think there is also a gap in that this proportion was observed in existing professional athletes. It doesn't inform how those athletes developed from age groupers into professionals. It is likely that they had a higher proportion of higher intensity work to get to where they are, then they had to add low intensity work to increase volume (since you can only handle so much intensity before you risk injury).

[@jimjamthebananaman1]

@@Emiljon this is exactly it! Normal people need more intensity because more intensity equals faster running etc. The professionals train that much with so much volume that it’s impossible to have so much intensity in their training

[@princethumper]

All of this sort of stuff, maffetone, nose breathing, 80/20, Norwegian way... It's all just a rehash of the Lydiard principles. Build your aerobic endurance first.

[@brunokrause]

I find it really hard to run at Zone 2 based on heart rate (too slow - > 7 min/km), but not hard at all on the bike or swimming. So I'm starting to do most of my Zone 2 training while swimming and riding, felling free to run at a more reasonable pace (~ 5 - 6 min/km). It kind of ressonates with what he said on the interview. Does anyone else use this strategy?

[@trinerd]

You need more running fitness not to run faster in a harder zone. If pace needed to keep HR in zone 2 is 7 min/km, so be it, keep the ego in check and you will get faster over time. 5 min/km is likely Zone 3 for you and although it will look "fast" on Strava, you will struggle to make fitness gains in the long term as you are going too hard.

[@abbekraus0101]

I started out running 8:30 k now I’m running 5:00k 100% in zone 2 for up to 3 hours. As Bernard said, keep the ego aside and it will reward you in the long term.

[@KeithRobertson57]

All that means is you’ve only been training your sugar engine for years and your fat burning engine is a bit rubbish ? An easy check to see if your mitochondria can burn fat efficiently is to just not eat for a few hours. If you feel hungry after say 4 hours you can’t burn your own body fat very well. To do any endurance stuff competitively it’s much better to be metabolically flexible and so be able to burn fat and glucose interchangeably depending on pace, etc.

[@brunokrause]

@@KeithRobertson57 not years! Months. I’m a beginner.

[@ironmantooltime]

@@brunokrause the keep your ego in check part is key. You can always tell a newb runner, they go out hell for leather at a pace they clearly can't sustain and for no other reason than to look cool. Definition of a poor quality workout. Run slow or do a structured high intensity workout, better in the long run, and eventually your easy pace will start to improve as well.

[@michaelsingh843]

All my training are 95 /5 🤣much more enjoyable

[@mooremikey1977]

Can we clarify not using zones and heart rates for 80/20 ie- 80 minutes ez 20 hard

[@justincooper9683]

80/20 is more about your training session rather then time. So if you trained 10 times a week 2 of those sessions would be hard. That’s a broad way of looking at it as not everyone trains 10 times a week and there are lots of different variables to play with especially in triathlon. I’m a coach if you want to chat about it more let me know 😊

[@mooremikey1977]

@@justincooper9683 so I’ve been following 80/20 triathlon by Fitzgerald and Warden. So the workouts in there are not really 80/20 they are going off of time in this book.

[@justincooper9683]

@@mooremikey1977 I have read that book and also followed one of there programmes just to have a play. Unfortunately if someone is trying to sell you something then they will make their workouts as fun as possible, not with the goal to gain the most fitness. They will try and throw lots of different intensities into lots of different workouts to make it more fun. Typically 9 times out of 10 people will gain fitness from these programmes as it will keep with to a good routine and you will simply just see a good ride in there overal volume (typically more volume = for fitness) but if you want to really up your fitness you need to really do some long and slow sessions (the stuff that people find to boring/feel like they are not getting any benefits as they are not out of breath) and some short fast stuff and repeat again and again I one session (the stuff people are not able to push themselves to do mentally or are not able to execute properly as they haven’t gone easy enough on there other training days)

[@velodavid1287]

I only have 30 minutes a day to exercise, does 80/20 still apply to that or with it being much less training load, can you go harder for more sessions? #GTNCoachesCorner #AskGTN

[@nech060404]

Yes it still applies. Also what does 30 mins a day mean. Can you do longer workouts on Saturday?

[@parkerkerth8446]

Lol wake up earlier. I get up at 4am everyday to in my sessions

[@velodavid1287]

@@parkerkerth8446 I already do! I had a very busy work and family life. I’ll be starting a new job soon where I’ll be cycle commuting so only temporary moving forward, just want to train smart.

[@parkerkerth8446]

@@velodavid1287 you get up at 4 am every day and only have 30 minutes to train?? Wow you must be VERY busy haha

[@andyhaochizhang]

I remember seeing some publications that concludes shorter training sessions with higher intensity is valid substitute if you can't rack up more milage and might even reduce injury risk. Those are on running only though and as always take it with a grain of salt.

[@thejeffinvade]

I always counted my WU/CD in a hard session towards easy…….

[@grantmckay7014]

Doesn't mean you were right by the sound of it...

[@thejeffinvade]

@@grantmckay7014 according to 80/20 book, if rest time is less than 3 mins, count towards 20%. More than 3 mins, count towards 80%.

[@thejeffinvade]

@@grantmckay7014 Matt Fitzgerald's implementation of 80/20, he counts the recovery minutes between intervals, but not the warm up/cool down.

[@thejeffinvade]

@@grantmckay7014 And Fitzgerald means 80% of time, not 80% of distance.

[@SMarkGee]

hmm all well and good. but a pro doing 80:20 might still spend a few hours at hard intensity, whereas jo average at 5 hours a week could perhaps do 2 harder hours and still recover.

[@ironmantooltime]

What you say doesn't follow in the long run as the 5 hr a wk guy doesn't have the conditioning of long hours and those 2 hr efforts will accumulate chronic injuries.

[@Jj88Im]

Can 80/20 be used for those who train 15h, 10h or 8 hours?

[@victoryu7820]

I only train about 7 hrs per week. I’ve applied a rough 80/20 by doing three hard 30 minute sessions and then two lower intensity sessions of about 2 and 3.5 hours as well. I’ve seen modest gains from a low starting baseline, so it’s worked for me.

[@pitekxpan5845]

@@victoryu7820 that’s is not 80 /20!! It should b 8 ez workout and 2 hard workout on 10

[@aaronbyrne9759]

I hate those things like talking pace so I try and stick to 80% or below of max HR which I find is exactly the same as another common low intensity training, Mafetone, which is 180 - age (plus or minus based on a few factors)

[@trepidati0n533]

Maffetone has the same accuracy as 220-age for max HR.....thus garbage. Actually worse than garbage. The 220-age equation at least showed their data for how they got it....Maffetone has not released his data at all.

[@GD-my5hm]

Heather needs a new laptop, this macbook is at least 15 years old. Come on GTN...

[@3WalkingPoles]

If I see squirrels on every ride, is it low or high intensity? 😉🤪

is not working. wasted year