How does WIDTH work in FM24? | Tactics Zone | Football Manager 2024

[@hungotuan4431]

You should study Tempo next Mustermann, the things Positional Play coaches are obsessed with 😂

[@mustermannfm]

Tempo might just be the next topic 😉 In fact, it may have been the first topic, but just made more sense to go through them in order they appear in the instructions panel!

[@TheDeepLyingPlaymaker]

This is incredible... one of the best tactical videos I've ever seen

[@mustermannfm]

Appreciated, thank you, dude!!

[@bosqueSP]

Oh my god, the two guys that make my addiction for fm grow even stronger, hiiii!

[@mustermannfm]

It's all part of a grand scheme to ruin the free time of all FM fans!!

[@TheDeepLyingPlaymaker]

@@mustermannfm if you aren't spending 15 hours a day on FM, are you really living???

[@BoxinSquare_]

totally agree

[@PainfullyMintE]

My god. Once again, you've just activated entirely new areas of my brain in regards to this game. This is incredible, I would love to see more videos like this, especially with examples like the one at the end which put it to use against an opposition weakness!

[@mustermannfm]

That's the plan. Unlikely to cover every instuction, but a fair few of them. Of course, some of it might be in FM25!

[@AlexHerder]

This is going to be a great series!

[@mustermannfm]

Should be good to properly dive into the practical impact!

[@Passion4FMTV]

Incredible work! LOVE how you digest all the statistics to discover the 'hidden truth'. I can't express how much I had desired to get these gtids, overlays and distance between players in FM25 so it would be easier to analyze stuff like this! Well done! You are a legend!

[@mustermannfm]

I can't express just how much I'd love it to have this in the game. Or at the very least, make it easy to export!!

[@kunleadelaja9159]

I salute you! Great analysis, visualisation and storytelling.

[@mustermannfm]

Thank you, dude. Glad you enjoyed it!

[@VodkaHellstorm]

I’ve been trying for two FMs now to achieve a Diniz-style pitch tilt just to see how far I can push the game, and this revealed to me that, in a way that seems counterintuitive to me given how relationist teams play through a tilt, I should have had it set to wide this whole time.

[@mustermannfm]

That's one hell of a task you've given yourself. Gonna be difficult to get those extreme tilts, I reckon. But certainly worth trying!!

[@josephchambers4509]

Fascinating! Best FM video I've seen in a while, amazing work!

[@mustermannfm]

Very kind, thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@erdemdemirkan]

incredible video man, appreciate the effort you gave into that

[@goggins6121]

dude you explain things really good, happy to have found your channel. been playing fm for a long time and i thought that means that just players stay wider haha, earneda like & sub my G

[@mustermannfm]

That's great to hear, thank you. I very much had the same assumptions; width just meant more spacing in between players. Then I read the manual for the first time in like 20 years.

[@ernesto8738]

you are approaching classic naturalist behavior. thank you so much, and godspeed

[@mustermannfm]

I'm a big fan of testing environments, but only when the findings are meaningful and can then be applied practically. FM has too many unknowns for that (in my opinion).

[@clementngai7174]

This series is gonna be great 🔥

[@mustermannfm]

Thank you, sire! I hope so, too!!

[@vmaretto]

I love you so much! this series gonna be fire 🔥

[@mustermannfm]

Cheers, dude! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@cuakcuakful]

Destroyed Atletico Madrid 4-0 in away leg in the CL quarter finals with Leipzig, took a chance with this option and the counter attacks occupied the spaces on the sides a lot more, so at least that was a clear effect of playing wider. I also noted that players although they had the option to focus playing on the middle, the APM would pick the ball and carry it towards the sidelines and creating more spaces. Thanks for the informative video

[@mustermannfm]

Great to hear!! It's always nice when you make a change and can then actually see it have a meaningful impact!

[@michaelodoi9711]

You smashed it champ !!!😅 Tempo is next and probably analysis tool frequently shown in the second half of the game

[@mustermannfm]

Cheers, dude. Tempo will indeed by next!

[@trxplem]

I love your videos and this one in particular feels like you have read my mind!

[@mustermannfm]

Maybe I did! I suppose the test will be if the next video in the series is what you're expecting it to be!

[@VRNocturne]

Nice research and observations - thanks for sharing 😃 I always liked using the widest setting because the description says it tries to stretch the play over the entire playing surface or something like that. Feels like that would stretch the defense, leaving room for mobile players to find spots to perform. I've experimented with the focus play down left/right (and both on at the same time). I'm not sure what it did, if anything, for the team. I'm playing a 4-2-4 with the wide defenders being in the wingback position (as opposed to the fullback position set to play like wingbacks). This shape might already encourage the players to go wide with the offensive width setting, maybe explaining why I saw little difference in scoring or who got involved for assists. I have noticed the two center mids hanging out more near the corners of the box instead of close to the center, just as you noted in your findings. One is a CAR so he will naturally drift wider but the other is a BBM so he's "box-to-boxing" closer to the edges of the boxes than the middle around the "D" or the spot. Edit to add: The two strikers are also more willing to spread wide. That could be more their CF roles (one A, one S) but maybe the max width setting encourages them to roam to the byline if they think it makes sense. Sometimes I've seen my IW and CF on one side look like they've switched positions even!

[@mustermannfm]

Exactly as I mention. Width is essentially a neutral setting. It doesn't make you more attacking or defensive. It's just about encouraging where you try to play with the ball. As with everything, it's only small changes. If the "best" option to pass or dribble is out wide and you're set to narrow, you're team is still likely to play it out wide. And vice versa.

[@geraldaddy1696]

Great video man!

[@mustermannfm]

Much appreciated, dude!

[@hungotuan4431]

9:53 I think I can answer this. A 3-4-3 when narrow will be a cluster fuck of players that the match engine, being coded entirely on the basis of positional play (equal spacing to be exact) can't handle. 3-5-2, I don't know... Nice vid as always Mustermann!

[@mustermannfm]

I cut a futher explanation into this because it didn't really make any difference to the video, but you are on the right track. In deep areas/build up, your players tend to revert to their defensive shape. This is also the area where the pitch is at it's largest because, as even if the opposition is pressing they can't push all their players into your half. The 3-at-the-back systems naturally have more players (6 in the 3-5-2, 7 in the 3-4-3) in these areas and are therefore able to retain possession and pass much easier.

[@hungotuan4431]

@@mustermannfm But my playmaker playing as the right winger loves the narrow mess, so I don’t care 😂😂

[@rinnterra]

incredible work omg

[@mustermannfm]

Thank you, dude!

[@Mamunga_Mamunga]

Brilliant work 👏

[@mustermannfm]

Much appreciated, thank you 🙏

[@redfox7497]

i see jesse i click 😝 great video!

[@RogerRoids]

I know this would take an ungodly amount of time and would not at all be worth it, but it would be interesting to see which of the differences you found between the different formations and settings are statistically significant. Either way, incredible video as always.

[@mustermannfm]

Statistical significance is always going to be tough to ascertain in an environment with so many variables and inate elements of RNG. We do see patterns emerge, however, that are clear across all formations. The conclusions in this video were based on those patterns being consistent across formations. Average position was wider in all the wide formations. Width having a greater impact on players in the half space was consistent across all formations. Assist locations were consistent across all formation. Relatively, of course. Using assist locations as an example, there were more assists from the flanks consistently across all formations in the wider systems. The distribution between the flanks might change. For example, in the 4-4-2, 39% of assists came from the left in the narrow system, 18% came from the right. In the wider system, 32% came from the left, 36% came from the right. Both the total, and overall proportion of assists from the flanks increased, but those from the left specifically decreased. This was not a trend that was seen across all formations. In all other formations proprotion of assists increased on both flanks individually within the wider systems. Touches distributed more to the flanks in wider formations. All formations had a higher proportion of touches in central zones than there were central zones. To explain that further, 3 columns were considered "Left", 4 columns "middle", 3 columns "right". 40% of the heatmap was therefore "central". In all instances, more than 40% of touches occurred centrally. This is, of course, to be expected. Even in a wide system, you have, at most, 2 players directly responsible for a given flank. You have 7 players (including the goalkeeper) responsible for central areas. Passing accuracy was not consistent across the formations, as mentioned in the video. The margins between all the "Headline Stats" were what could be covered within an expected variance. All under 5% from the midpoint. Except crossing accuracy.

[@chishell9560]

Great clip

[@mustermannfm]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jimmoriarty8399]

Great Video! I have to say, i would have hoped for a bit more difference between the 2 extrems. did you look at the pass-maps and how they change with both settings? a video like this about tempo/pacing directness would be great, too

[@mustermannfm]

Tempo is next, that's for sure!

[@KevinV90]

Looking forward to the vid about Tempo. Might still be the most confusing instruction from what you can read on forums etc 😅 Hope you can explain this in a way so the point finally comes across 😂 If i was to summarise tempo in one sentence it would be something like: ‘The general urgency to progress the ball forward relative to the base tempo set by the chosen mentality.’ Imo tempo does so much more than just the time a player takes to make a decision. It also affects things like progressing the ball forward or sideways, wait for better chances or taking a shot at the earliest opportunity etc

[@mustermannfm]

I would describe it as "urgency". But that is my assumption. We'll see what the data actually shows!!

[@KevinV90]

@@mustermannfm Like minded then on this one i see. Looking forward to another masterclass 👍🏻

[@FMTechnicalArea]

When I heard "how does morale impact how players follow instruction" I remembered the attribute I call the best one on FM - Teamwork. You're right. There are far too many variables and that's what makes this as fascinating as the real thing. Damn Mustermann, this is incredibly detailed and the way you think is brilliant! But personally, I'm a little skeptical about skipping the games. The Ass Man has attributes and hidden attributes of his own which would influence his in-game choices, wouldn't that impact the results of your data? Anyways, It's a brilliant video. What are you doing next?

[@mustermannfm]

Fair to be skeptical, although one of the aspects I checked (as much as is reasonably possible) is assistant interference. The most obvious in this regard would be them changing to their preferred formation. Something which didn't happen as long as you told them to use your tactics. What would have a bigger impact, in my opinion, is their choice of players. They will often shoehorn the "best" players into the starting lineup, on their favoured side, even if not necessarily suitable for the tactic. That said, it happened consistently across the tests, which is why you are able to still observe patterns/trends.

[@FMTechnicalArea]

@@mustermannfm fair enough.

[@MattMajcan]

i wish you'd also do a test of the middle option. i know it seems obvious it should be in between the two extremes but id like to see if thats actually true or if theres any differences

[@mustermannfm]

Why not try it yourself. You can see the team, and the formations. Run the tests and report back!

[@joeljd9806]

can u please make a video comparing the mentality with the tempo instructions? i really don't know how they work together. This is an amazing video ty.

[@mustermannfm]

I will be looking at tempo in a later video. Mentality probably not. If you head to the manual, you can get an overview of what mentality does. It essentially changes a number of different settings (the more attacking, the more it increases width, tempo, passing directness, defensive line, pressing intensity, etc...). With so many areas it changes at once, and the inate randomness of the game, it's difficult to analyse it's impact accurately.

[@joeljd9806]

@@mustermannfm Alright thank you!

[@shyguy1051]

Everytime Mustermann posts, i realise that i don't know how to play this game😂😂😂🙌🏿

[@mustermannfm]

Likewise. Every time I think I understand something, I check to make sure I'm right. And I'm wrong.

[@andrespatrone8641]

7:44 I want... I need.. this type of statitics maps INSIDE the game

[@mustermannfm]

I need it, too! Imagine how much time I could've saved 😂

[@andrespatrone8641]

@@mustermannfm These types of statistics, not only for the team as a whole but also for each player, would help to understand much better what happens in the games without needing to watch the entire games.

[@mustermannfm]

Indeed. There are a lot of extra bits that would need to go into it to work properly at a player level. The ability to filter by positions/role, so as to only show their heatmaps in specific situations, especially.

[@nguyenuctai7510]

Very like your vids bro🙏 Can u make a vid about something in out of possession like pressing trap or trigger press?

[@mustermannfm]

Glad you enjoyed it. I will be looking at other tactical instructions in later videos!

[@jonpaul3868]

2:34 lonely 😂

[@mustermannfm]

Wingbacks need friends. It's a travesty to leave them all alone like that.

[@martinwoolf3861]

Backward passes are not ideal in FM24, because most teams press, and backward passes are either themselves a press trigger, or will cause a press trigger every time the ball is misplayed and a player has to turn around to get it. So I would bet wider systems just naturally get pressed more often than narrower systems.

[@mustermannfm]

That sounds like something to look into. Or at least would be if pressures were properly measurable in game. Like, sure, there's a metric for it. You can find out how many attempted and completed pressures a player makes per 90. But no way to actually see it on a game-to-game basis, or illustrated on the chalkboard. (My biggest frustration with recent editions of FM has been the inability to quantify what consistutes a "completed pressure")

[@martinwoolf3861]

As far as accuracy, backward passes are naturally less likely to be to a player who already has an opponent very close to the passing line. This makes for easier passes and fewer interceptions---but more presses.

[@martinwoolf3861]

​@@mustermannfm Totally agree. The stats side of FM could do with a lot less "eh, we tried" from SI

[@mustermannfm]

@@martinwoolf3861 oh my, I've just seen my email. You are a very kind gentleman!!

[@martinwoolf3861]

@mustermannfm you do outstanding work. Looking forward to the next video :)

[@zahreel3103]

Thanks for this. Sure looks like the engine is just a crapshoot

[@vangeliskastanas]

Workrate: 20

[@mustermannfm]

Pace: 4 Communication: 7 Technique: 6 😂

[@vangeliskastanas]

@@mustermannfm 😄

[@uffdude2936]

To a numbers geek like me, these videos are porn!

[@mustermannfm]

I will add a NSFW warning next time!!

[@ParetoEmperor-jp6ke]

Narrow formation, gegenpressing, counter, high trigger pressing, tackle harder, high tempo still too OP, your players when in defensive and attacking transitions will behave like slaves team lead by Maximus fight for their lives in Gladiators movie scene, trust me

[@VurtAddicted]

I am sorry, but going on holiday doesn't help me to analyse the game. As I play full time, any conclusion analysing simulated data might be misleading

[@mustermannfm]

No apology needed. You're entitled to your opinion, and as mentioned in the video, there is no perfect test environment. Every testing approach conceivable will be flawed (unless SI want to give us access to the core engine).

[@VurtAddicted]

@mustermannfm I totally agree. The point is that we know just using common sense that the simulation engine can't do all the calculations the game engine does, but we don't know where the simplification lies. I can give you some 20 snapshots of the final day of 20 consecutive seasons with almost all games played full-time if you want and you can do comparisons or if you drive me I can do some analysis on my own, but even then it would be hard to get conclusions. Luckily, FM has such a huge number of variables that is almost impossible to be sure about something. Personally, I trust my eyes. Obviously, that makes it impossible to drive conclusions valid for someone else.

[@mustermannfm]

I should probably point out here that there are effectively two match engines in the game. Full Match Engine (FME) and Quick Match Engine (QME). QME is used for inactive leagues or active leagues set to less than full detail. These games you cannot click into afterwards. You can only see the score and events summary - goalscorers, injuries, red cards, etc... FME is used for all games in active leagues and full detail. This doesn't differentiate between the teams. So whether you or I are in control of a team, or whether the AI is in control of the team, the calculations are the same. The process is simple. At game start it calculates the game. When a change is made, it recalculates from that point onwards. Obviously an AI vs AI match is quicker to calculate, purely because everything is self contained. It calculates what happens in the game. Those calculcations means team A make a change at x minutes. That recalculation means team A and team B make a change at y minutes, and so on. When adding a human element in there the game has to wait for your inputs until it recalculates. But otherwise, there is no meaningful difference. From observations, holiday mode seems to stick truer to your tactical approach. From watching highlights, I can see that the team instructions/roles stick to what I've assigned regardless of game state. E.g. the Assistant Manager doesn't change to attacking when chasing a deficit. Of course this is anecdotal, but I'm not seeing any noticeable change in passing intent or player behaviour. This is not the case when using Instant Result. Instant Result will see the Assistant Manager shift to their own preferences during the course of the game. That is sufficient, in my opinion, to identify patterns and behaviour. These things are, of course, marginal. All "realistic" formations have more players in central positions. If the clear "best" option to pass/dribble/shoot is in a specific location, then your players are going to take that option most of the time regardless of instructions. And as every game is different, that's going to change distribution of actions every single time. But, from those patterns, you can understand what an instruction does. In general terms.

[@VurtAddicted]

@mustermannfm Do you have any evidence that the FME plays the same if you actually run it or you let it run in the background? I doubt this is true, just because even if I run a game in "only commentary" it takes a lot of time, an amount of time incompatible with the number of games simulated in a turn, especially during weekends. I only simulate my matches when the game engine crashes because I don't want to replay the match, and watching the highlights it does seem different to me. It seems that faster players play much better, for instance. There is also a lower level of creativity: some animations I see full time, I never see them in simulated games. I have never seen a rabona for instance, neither in a game simulated for my team or just watching the highlights of a game simulated in the background, something I do quite often for international events. When it comes to what your AM does while you are on holiday, I am assuming he does what he suggests you to do during a game. Which is a lot. But, again, these are just educated guesses based on the experience of many games played since Championship Manager

[@mustermannfm]

@@VurtAddicted Paragraphs, man!! Make it at least a little easier to read 😂 You can check out comments from staff (not mods) on the SI Forums for information about how the ME is one and the same - unless you are on no detail, which uses the QME. A game in "only commentary" should take time. Even on the quickest setting, it needs to be slow enough when you're playing for you to react and make changes. As well as having the visual data layer on top update in real time (it's hard to react and make changes if it doesn't show you the stats/condition/ratings/etc... as the game is playing). Those data updates still happen in the simulation, as each action/outcome is recorded as an event, but displaying it in real time doesn't. There is little additional processing required for showing this information, but it needs to be delivered in a digestible way. E.g. when it updates in the match stats/tablet/player bar, it needs to give you time to process there has been an update. That is why you get those little pauses. Pauses which aren't there when playing on Full Match because they're not necessary. Those animations are definitely there in "simulated" games. That's how the highlights were grabbed for the Moneyball Clinic positions videos. For example, Spertsyan. I went on holiday, then watched back through goals and assists. Not any other aspects of games. His rabona assist was rather delightful, though: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZyThpuId5xohKMsi=e5BlLwwhuP4eUjIj&t=733

[@MusaGuy24]

Girth..... pause

[@mustermannfm]

Now that's a different video altogether!