How effective are discards? | Balatro

[@brysonlambes7175]

The thing with four fingers is that it makes it really easy to get straight flushes. with that joker the four card straight and the four card flush don't need to be the same four cards, you can have a straight containing 3 of the same suit and then a fifth card of that suit outside the flush and it counts as a straight flush. 😊

[@flareflareon]

Probably even easier with the shortcut joker

[@GreenLinzerd]

@@flareflareonI had a run with both, I can attest to that

[@subrezon]

I wouldn't call it "really easy", but yeah it definitely upgrades Straight Flushes from happening "almost never" to "occasionally".

[@Hlebuw3k]

Fun fact: With a hand size of zero, you have a 100% chance to draw nothing at all! And the game straight up gives you a lose screen to end your suffering.

[@bquad2]

this also happens if you play/discard every card in your deck

[@mat-_-vey]

Также если ты дойдёшь до 39 анте (без мода на увеличение максима набираемых чисел до очень больших) 1e308 это всё что можно набрать = naneinf, но 39 анте nane, что больше и у тебя нет выхода из этой ситуации, кроме проигрыша

[@HamidKarzai]

I did get the feeling that flushes were easier to achieve in this game than straights, I guess this confirms it

[@kkrup5395]

that's pretty easy feeling to confirm just thinking about it when you discard. You fish for any 9 only 4 cards out of 40+ will work for you, when you fish for any of hearts about quoter of the deck works for you

[@HamidKarzai]

@@kkrup5395that makes sense, but then it seems wrong that the game scores straights lower than flushes

[@Nosirrbro]

@@HamidKarzaiI think it makes sense, if they scored things in a different order than poker hands that would just be confusing, instead they make things like the straight mult cards more effective than the flush mult cards for balance

[@dommaster661]

​@@HamidKarzaimaybe to make it early friedly /increase the chance for one hander in the first ante. The Planets balanced it out with straights harder to get better stats than flush with worse stats.

[@foxtrott5648]

i bought balatro and I've been having a blast, understanding the probabilities and manipulating them thanks to your videos!! thanks!!

[@apocalypsehero]

Best of luck!

[@bioniclink2527]

With the quality, I expected this to be a 10k or so channel. But nope! Good on you. You earned a sub. Seems like this video's kinda blowing up, so that's nice to see.

[@pirate135246]

this video is an excellent reason why non flush hands such as straights need a buff

[@hashtag3073]

the thing about flushes is there is a boss blind designed specifically to ruin each one's day, I've had many a strong flush run cut short by having 2/3 of my deck debuffed.

[@TWlaz]

Chips/mult wise, Flushes scale worse than a lot of other hand types.

[@pirate135246]

doesn't matter when they are the easiest to beat ante 8 with@@TWlaz

[@pirate135246]

@@hashtag3073 there are also many ways to reroll or skip boss blinds, and you might be thinking if you get it early you wont be able to avoid it but in that case it's usually not a problem yet

[@picklenik9658]

@@TWlazexactky, i always avoid flush builds because they feel like an easy trap to fall into, and probably probably being fine to beat Ante 8, there’s no way you get past Ante 12 (the notoriously high jump to 300 million) with a flush build.

[@nickrogers3624]

I did make a high card build with burnt joker and it is incredibly strong. Do not worry about what your deck looks like at all, just spam high card. I got high card leveled to about 45 before I hit final ante

[@apocalypsehero]

High card, the only card I can count on.

[@Ayden-D65]

If you get burnt joker early you should almost always go for high card

[@Arakus99]

@@Ayden-D65unless you’re on Checkered Deck (both of my burnt runs were with checkered)

[@Applestoroger]

High card and a handful of steel!

[@PieMoe]

I appreciate the mention of 5s and 10s affecting straights. It feels so hard to build a deck around straights because I always want to manipulate the cards. Do NOT change card ranks if youre hoping for a straight. You are either adding more trash or removing the card you need. If you insist on modifying ranks, start with either 2 A or K since they are only in two possible straights. And even then, its maybe more worth your time to ensure that all card ranks are being trimmed evenly to best avoid dupes

[@josh___something]

The way I deckbuild straights is to just massacre the low end, and duplicate the high end. Focus on the A-9 portion, disregard anything below 6.

[@theendofthestart8179]

dont add or change, only remove, pretty simple, dont waste your gold on stuff that is bad.

[@theendofthestart8179]

@@josh___something duplicating anything is actively bad for straights

[@doodleblah8275]

At the risk of becoming a one-trick channel, I’d love to see some more niche balatro analysis like this :)

[@apocalypsehero]

If I find something fun to do another Balatro video about I wouldn’t be opposed, but I like bouncing around. Thanks for watching!

[@willnash7907]

Solid analysis!

[@computerpwner]

Nice video! Although I wonder why the checkered deck was omitted. Since it would have very different odds to draw flushes and straight flushes edit: thinking a bit more I suppose it's equivalent to a normal deck with a permanent smeared joker

[@apocalypsehero]

Haha… I forgot it existed. Its odds should be identical to using the smeared joker though.

[@nimrodzaphnath5495]

Question is, what is the best card(s) to use hanged man in order to improve straight odds.

[@EpicDude467]

​@@nimrodzaphnath5495every straight has to contain a 4 or a 10 but besides that youre best off choosing 5 cards and deleting / converting everything else

[@1TieDye1]

Didn’t address jokers that increase hand size either, which make your hand larger and effectively improve your discards too, by allowing you to discard more cards per discard, when you are holding on to over three cards

[@edysfunction_]

@@EpicDude467every straight has to have a 10 or a 5, not a 4

[@kipikii]

nice video! underrated channel

[@apocalypsehero]

Thank you much!

[@landon8952]

This confirms to me that straights are the most awkward build. Harder to discard to than flushes, and unlike other low probability hands, it’s extremely difficult to raise their likelihood with deck modifications. Maybe their planet cards should be buffed. It’d be a bit weird breaking the standard poker hand ranking though

[@MammaSomari]

I'm only a couple of runs into the game so far but the Shortcut joker seems to enable the playing of nearly guaranteed straights.

[@Google_Corporation]

Interesting odds, I'd be very curious to see how these line up with hand payout value for expected return! I think for this it would be very easy to calculate expected return on gunning for a specific hand out the gate. Additionally, you have essentially built a simple balatro AI, haha. Once you have the methods in place for an expected return calculator, it's as simple as plugging in your current hand, then following what the simulator's highest expected value move is. (This is also very similar to how chess bots work)

[@TheFatManatee]

while you do mention stright flush/royal flush in passing what are the odds of a straight flush when you consider smear joker/checker deck, 4 fingers, and/or shortcut? especially as another commenter mentioned how 4 fingers can make it so a hand that is a straight and a flush (but not both, e.g 5,6,7,8 of hearts and the 9 of clubs) into a straight flush

[@kwerner]

That was some impressive math! 👍

[@LagiacrusHunter]

And then you factor in DNA and Trading Card to slowly build a deck entirely made of Aces until you're guaranteed to get a Flush 5 every time 😂 Such a fantastic game, thanks for the math breakdown!

[@apocalypsehero]

Can't say I care much for DNA, but I do love trading card.

[@mmmmmmmtoast]

​@@apocalypseheroDNA is absolutely amazing with the right build. A blueprint or brainstorm really helps but just imagine duping steel red seal kings every round while you have baron and high level high card. It carries you to really high antes easily

[@Oleg-px3us]

@@apocalypsehero DNA by itself isn't great but it's absolutely incredible for endless runs. Trading card is always great though, I agree.

[@hotdogskid]

I was wondering about discards from the last video but i thought itd be too difficult to make an algorithm for discarding, but the madlad actually did it!

[@malcolmw121]

I've got a couple points and a couple questions- OK, so just adding fives and tens is not good for the odds. -fives and tens are still the best cards to enhance for that reason, right...? -similarly, let's say you want to make steel or gold cards, and are going for specific hands. What are the best cards to convert? A 2, knowing you won't want to keep it in favor of a higher number, or a 10, knowing you're more likely to hold onto it for the score, but might end up needing to use it? -what about adding, say, three 5s and 10s, two 4s, 6s, 9s, and Js, and one 3, 7, 8, and Q? does that raise the odds? How does *removing* certain cards play into the odds? Say for example, I use Hanged Man to remove two 2's, and then keep that in mind as I discard? What about *converting* cards? Say I convert a K and a J to an A and Q respectively via Strength. Just how much does that raise my odds of a Full House, for example? ...what are the odds of drawing three or four pair? Because that seems to happen to me a lot more often than I'd like. What's the best way to prevent that scenario?

[@apocalypsehero]

1. Fives and tens being necessary for every straight does make them optimal when deciding what to enhance. 2. In terms of immediate benefit you probably want to buff cards you don't anticipate using in your hands. But in the long run where you optimize the deck it's best to congregate your buffs on combo pieces since you'll either be removing or converting the rest of the deck. 3. I didn't do many tests but any scenario where I added cards resulting in the odds of a straight going down, so the real question is which cards are best to remove first and an even spread seems best or removing an entire half. 4. Yeah, the results stated aren't perfect considering my algorithm isn't advanced enough to consider remaining deck statistics when making it's discards, just focusing on current state and highest odds discards given an unknown remainder. So if you consider what you've done with your deck when discarding mileage will vary. That's all I'm gonna say for now, that's one heavy comment. XD Thanks for watching!

[@NitBeanTheMachine]

What are the odds of drawing a straight with 2 discards + shortcut? I’m guessing like 90-something?

[@apocalypsehero]

I bricked the simulator so I can't get an exact number but I'm fairly certain the odds of getting a straight with just one discard and shortcut is already like 90%.

[@ethanveach8451]

Wouldn't Checkered deck do the same thing as smeared joker? Or am I misunderstanding something.

[@apocalypsehero]

Yes.

[@piktogramm]

Thanks !

[@gloomxglory]

This man just said "flush straights"

[@tsawy6]

Fundamentally, the tricky part of this analysis is making a truly intelligwnt discard algorithm. Most notably, i dont think youve fully accounted for straight discsrd patterns, and how they can be influenced by understanding what remains in the deck

[@jacobv_]

With all 3 of the jokers mentioned I got an extremely reliable straight flush deck. I would get a straight flush with 0 or 1 discard basically every time.

[@Leotagorax]

yeah, true, but in the lowest difficulty, right? In some upper streak is almost impossible, I think...

[@theendofthestart8179]

is the thing with 5 and 10 if you never discard?

[@apocalypsehero]

The reduction in odds by adding 5s and 10s does factor in discards. That being said my discard algorithm is far from perfect so mileage may vary.

[@terencebad7009]

It would be more useful to have a bit more detail around which hand to fish for if you draw, for example, 3 or 4 in a row fishing for a straight vs trying to draw flush, as that’s the situation that usually happens in ante 1.

[@limbolegs]

love it

[@loliceblocks]

I appreciate the opportunity to be wrong in the comments. Cocky, yet engaging. Well played.

[@raptorrampage2109]

For the algorithm

[@annaheritage931]

Holy heck that is not many views

[@terrydactyl2077]

Well. You did comment less than an hour after he posted.

[@jaginovsky]

@@terrydactyl2077holy heck that’s still not many views

[@terrydactyl2077]

@@jaginovsky lot more than 19

[@jaginovsky]

@@terrydactyl2077 math!

[@terrydactyl2077]

@@jaginovsky I wish I was good at math then I’d be better at this bloody game!

[@gabrielnobreketter3808]

very good video! I would've liked, if you could have shown how the odds are for highcards, because I heard somewhere, that after 3 discards, it's more than 69%

[@bbrainstormer2036]

Real poker is full of math, it makes since that Balatro would follow suit (pun intended)

[@PalXen]

the discard mechanic. Honestly its horrible at times, sometimes it gives you the same cards you discarded but different suits OR 2-5 random cards that you just do not want and then you run out of discards and you are F'd tbh without multi jokers for 2 pairs? its very very difficult to get any high chip count at all.

[@apocalypsehero]

Yeah, unless I'm running a hand with high rates or a deck that has been trimmed I wouldn't rely on it getting me the cards I need, but I'd still rather have it than not.

[@markopopovic9874]

Great video And hot voice

[@MyArti2000]

Im gonnna coment just becaus I can xd

[@MyArti2000]

Next coment becaus it is great vid

[@MyArti2000]

For ststs

[@ausmiku]

What a useless video. What sort of discards are you talking about, 1 card, all cards or just unwanted cards ? There's a difference you know ?!

[@rogierownage]

He briefly explained the algorithm in the video