How engineering broke Elite Dangerous...

Ever wondered how engineering BREAKS Elite? Wonder no more!
#SpaceSim
#EliteDangerous
#engineers
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[@TheYamiks]

Mistake : 23:40 - should be "6 unengineered beam lasers"

[@inokainemis]

just coming down to the comments to ask about that, thank you for the correction yamiks.

[@pearcomputers]

buy materials for creds... done :P . leave yummy broken ghosts insane game :D

[@captainjonna1034]

i`am starting to think Frontier studios are just another dodgy company like E.A games....why? because they produce for the game very little amount of updates per year and had micro transactions in the game from the start and then only a paid DLC once every 3-5 years(lazy AF) if ur lucky..since horizons released in 2015 December and beyond was in sometime in 2018... Elite has been out for 5 whole years for fck's sake..yes ok some stuff has improved or changed...but no no really it`s the exact same game you`ve been grinding for 5 years only to quit the game cos u can`t spend ur money on anything cos u own it all. i think Frontier are just stringing people along with adding bigger paided DLC very rarely and then throughout the year giving us crap, effortless and worthless updates to keep people interested ..only in comparison to what could have been done to this game in 5 years. most parts of the game just feel like a tech demo with the main focus of the game is a V.R game for sight seeing and cockpit fighting

[@captainjonna1034]

ObsidianAnt informed us that they are delaying the new paid dlc for a whole year guys thats right a whole yeah they claim it`s because of Covid-19 lockdown yeah yeah yeah this is a Blatant excuse using lock down i think it`s just a straight up Lie. other game companies are not delaying there DLC releases buy nearly a whole fcking year AAA or indie, other games are updating and growing just fine it`s E.D that is standing still i think Frontier don`t know what there doing, i don`t think they even care about this title or even have the passion to develop it..i think it was made as a technical demo of getting something like the Stellar forge Engine running and producing a V.R eye candy sight seeing game \ cockpit fighter beyond that i think beyond that i don`t think they want to develop it or have the passion to make this game truly Epic and worthwhile cos right now it`s a husk or just a shell ..lol but i bet there always making new stuff to sell for real money \ micro\macro transactions

[@EM-ks5my]

10:55 I saw this from "the division " dev team. Invisible players, they first did like Elite Dangerous, were you could see everyone, then the actual locations in game would just crash, yes, it was bad. Then they made an internal match making in the background. Same did happened in Dark Souls series. If you were level 70 you could not help or attack a level 20 to keep the balance. Even when two level 70 would go against a boss fight. The boss would scale dynamically his level, so gameplay is still challenging. Elite needs that. I have seem a level 20 in a wing of level 99 players and suddenly that player makes millions or gets Experience from combat, where he did nothing but shoot two times and let the friends deal with it. Elite dangerous needs serious RPG gameplay to balance the whole game. Bring levels, a fully engineered ship X, a rank Elite, and so on counts towards the level. Maybe give a bonus if you are Elite but use a non engineering ship. Also, make NPC more responsive. I have staged fights next to an station and the Security forces just do nothing. Also ADD AGRO!! Say, you try to kill a level 20 and you are a level 70, don't send two cobras to get you. Sent Anacondas, Chieftains and small ship, make them smart so they target your FSD. The balance in the game needs an overhaul, but JRPG ideas could really help here.

[@crocky_101]

Even PVE feels designed for engineered ships now, so it's hard to just have some fun in combat zones without all of that "optional" grind.

[@jigsawalwayswins8636]

Optional? Haha that's funny

[@Lonewolf.wildcamping]

just go to easy cz

[@readyforlol]

@@Lonewolf.wildcamping Going to EZ CZ means you'll be stuck smashing "competent" ships without any risk past a certain point. You're also missing out on optional objectives, including capital ships. There has to be a middle ground between "murder everything that looks at you wrong without any skill required and for a shit payout" and "oh, a spec ops wing spawned and... Oh, a rebuy screen spawned along with them !". Seriously, the difficulty gap between low and mid/high intensity CZ (which is widened by the general poor payout of combat) almost made me drop the game altogether. I had to go mining for hours to afford a ship that'd bridge that gap, and being forced out of your preferred gameplay was explicitly stated by the developers as something they'd avoid during kickstarter promotion. Whenever the devs talk about game design, they seem knowledgable and willing to make a good game, but the actual in-game systems they end up sticking with for years go contrary to everything they say. It's infuriating.

[@MrAlecRamsey]

I mean, who shows up to fight with a factory ship? Who ever shows up to any contest without doing something beforehand for an advantage? Combat isn't always for casuals, those combat zones are brutal.

[@clnetrooper]

@sampaix Well, aside from the grind, there's nothing to do so... Yeah. That's the most interesting part of the game because there isn't much left after. Also, i'll answer that i'd like to be able to pve a bit and try out the mechanics of fighting before being forced to grind for it.

[@marshallscot]

As a newer player, the engineering system ensures that I will absolutely never use open play.

[@toninhosoldierhelmet4033]

yes, to even think on entering open you must have a fully engineered FDL and thats just the basic entrance ticket.

[@dcorman]

I got in to Elite from day 1 (started playing on c-64 in 1984) have 1000 hours into ED, but I'm still what people would call a "casual" player as I've only accrued about 300 mill Credits in assets. I'm an older man, have a real job that involves planning, purchasing, managing equipment, bookkeeping, etc. and therefore avoid all gaming activities that feel like "work" (I have limited time and I want it all to be fun). But, I hate going in and getting ganked immediately by a player that has me down to ZERO before I can drop my cargo, or get them targeted, or even deploy my weapons so... I never play in open, and it makes me sad there isn't a better environment. I would throw Vendetta Online out as a model for a Universe where Noobs to Unemployed, Full-Time, Gamer Lifers (and even Gankers) can co-exist.. It even fosters cooperation over gaming.

[@LoliFoxQueen]

hackers ruined open play for me before engineering was even a thing, this just reinforces my hatred of it.

[@chemha]

@@dcorman You can always play in Mobius

[@hatman4818]

After 309 hours, and finally taking the time to grind low temp diamonds, I finally have an A rated conda? Does that mean I'm competetive in open? F!@# no, now I gotta go engineer everything... And I only have 2 engineers unlocked, only one of which to level 5, and it's for FSD range.

[@cybrains3824]

"Would you be ok with the sacrifice?" Haven´t visited engineers once in my 4 years of ED, so its a yes

[@oumuamua460]

Coz I'm sure all you do is visiting your neighbors at Beagle point in solo mode..am I right?

[@cybrains3824]

@@oumuamua460 nah, mostly mining around Ga Gu in open

[@benbaselet2026]

I just started engineering a bit about a week ago. it's a bit confusing with the swinging numbers and bars and whatnot but I guess I got something from it.

[@brianlam5847]

it is worth it. 1 engineered ship is worth 2-4 regular ships.

[@victorhugo-wo2ci]

As much as i hate engineering i gotta admit it is now needed. I cant explore with just 30ly on my aspX anymore i gotta have the 50-60ly experience

[@rixgaming9989]

Just get rid of engineer levels, crank up the unlock requirements, get rid of materials and make engineers a service that is paid for in credits.

[@FlecheDeFer]

That really is completely out of touch.

[@izawa9211]

​@@FlecheDeFer if you had too pay in credits only it would be amazing

[@doubledekercouch-gameswhat9677]

@@izawa9211option to just pay an upfront cost would be nice

[@Chris_winthers]

So remove literally everything that makes engineering a unique feature and just make it another category in outfitting?

[@doubledekercouch-gameswhat9677]

Maybe making it less of a chore, i.e a special mission that you need to complete in order to receive the blueprint instead of collecting 4 different random materials

[@ThatTinyDude]

i never thought that yamiks would pull a mini and post a 40 min video on engineering

[@oumuamua460]

Correction my good sir...this wasn't a video on engineering (you're one of the few who can do that). This was more about being a little B**** about things he doesn't understand or control. Just his usual boring af rant that get really old.

[@Maty83.]

@@oumuamua460 Have you even watched the video? What he talks about seems sensible and he definitely brings up how this can be broken. So next time, please watch the video beforehand.

[@ThatTinyDude]

@@oumuamua460 thats rather rude I count yamiks as a good friend. Please apoligize?

[@oumuamua460]

@@ThatTinyDude What's rude? The fact that he's your friend as nothing to do with my opinion on what he's doing/saying..What's rude is him dissing Brits, Americans, Germans, French and other nationals on a reg basis and so far he seems to be getting away with it..I'm personally tired of him sh*tting on a game that I love and invested countless hours in. This goes beyond critic. All his vids are rants and being negative about everything ..Nah..I'll pass..

[@henryzweihander8282]

@@oumuamua460 You investing time into it doesn't actually make it imune to criticism. Since you didn't watch it what are you hoping to add but ignorance?

[@DrivingDerbyshire]

We should be rewarded for the roles we play. Exploring should reward with FSD boost. PVP with better weapons. Mining with mining equipment. You get the idea.

[@vladyslavshcherbakov8273]

Every time you want to try something new, you have the mindset that you have to grind for engineering upgrades because stock modules suck. As a result I just quit the game. Engineering is THE NUMBER ONE reason I left this game.

[@yorhaunit8s]

For me number one reason was that I don't have anything to do with that engineered ship. I've spent hundreds of hours to get few ships I like fully engineered to my liking. Those are iEagle, Vulture and Python. And after that I discovered that this game has nothing meaningful to do with those ships. I don't need money - I have a billion and that's more than I need. I need something meaningful and fun to do, and game has nothing like that. Everything is either a grind to get a ship, or a grind to upgrade a ship.

[@ereder1476]

@@yorhaunit8s the only good fighgt with billions of credits and a fully engeneered ship is ... being able to go in open play and not care. and so finally be able to enjoy multiplayer without the fear of dying and puting a dent in your wallet with rebuy. i juts hope the community will still be here by the time i get there

[@yorhaunit8s]

@@ereder1476 I flied in the open 95% of my playtime. Getting away from gankers is actually boring and repetitive too, once you know it. Submit, maneuver past enemy, fly past him until FSD cooldown passes by, jump in another system. It's exciting first two times, then it's boring.

[@yorhaunit8s]

@@thepathnotfound Sorry for your misadventure. In an exploration outfitted ship, without engineered A-rated shields - nothing you could do, really. And my point was exactly that flying in the open adds nothing of value to the game, really. The "engaging gameplay" a lot of griefers advertise is as boring and repetitive as most of Elite's content, speaking from experience.

[@jjsemperfi]

Wow, you quit everything that’s hard?

[@schnozbott]

The engineer grind is consistently the one thing that makes me stop playing every time I try to pick up Elite again, because every part of it is terrible. But like so much else in this game, it's a feature they threw in and lazily let fester due to a lack of real engagement with their players.

[@thepancakemann]

This!

[@yellowticket9673]

As a complete newbie, I think it's great that there are still people who put this amount of effort into bringing attention to issues they have. Like serious issues they have convictions about. How much time did this min video take for you to produce? I truly hope the developers take note of this...

[@Magus7777]

They won't. They never did, and probably never will do. Unless something creates a huge sh*tstorm, they just ignore it. Money making is the prime reason for everything Elite Dangerous. As long as they sell their overpriced skins, all is well.

[@joona5376]

@@Magus7777 who honestly pays money for those skins... after all they are just cosmetical and on top of that you can get arx for free slowly

[@Utubeuser000]

@@joona5376 Ask that to Fortnite players...

[@sergiuszwinogrodzki6569]

Those issues are still there though. I love the game, but at the same time I hate how it's implemented.

[@arthurvilain7270]

The engineers were one of the features of Horizon I was the most looking forward to. In the end it turned out to be what pushed me away from the game. I was expecting a fine tuning system that would allow me to specialize and customize my ships exactly the way I wanted. Instead we got a grindy gambling machine that could give 200-300% buffs to key ship stats, trivializing PVE entirely and making PVP encounters unwinnable if you were not at the helm of a min-maxed combat ship. What a mess.

[@mand0rk]

But at it’s heart, E:D isn’t a pvp game. It would be like saying “Runescape is unbalanced because my character with 10 hours total playtime gets 2 hit by someone with 200 hours playtime.” While engineering isn’t perfect, it’s the closest thing Elite has to an “endgame” and would need to be replaced with some other upgrade system if you wanted to remove it.

[@TheYamiks]

Isnt pvp game... What game are you playing cus that sure aint elite in that case. Like it or not ED is mmo.. Like it or not it is pvp game.

[@dadski4364]

@@TheYamiks He said "at its heart". While I do believe elite has very thrilling pvp and is very enjoyable in most cases, especially when arranged. At its core it's a mediocre pvp game, at best. P2P takes a dump on it hard, you can look at videos from really good pvp players and notice how many times they are not in LOS of their target and still keep taking damage because they're out of sync. There's no pvp content (apart from pp) or balance, there's nothing that encourages pvp (if anything it's discouraged by rebuys), there's no benefit to pvp, there's no skill ranks/leagues (apart from combat "rank" but I wouldn't class that as a pvp rank or even a rank, since it's just amassed kills, there's nothing to determine players skill), there's no game match-made pvp apart from cqc, somehow I have a feeling you weren't referring to cqc lol. It's a sandbox that wants to be both an mmo and a mobile game with pvp being the only replayable "content" if you find/make it yourself.

[@TheYamiks]

hmm... well i guess soo, but thing about ED is that it's a VERY different thing than what they wanted to make during kickstarter phases....

[@bloodfoxtriberc8157]

@@TheYamiks the background simulation still has the same effects on my private group as it has on your open game and the other way around... just minus assholes... its not solo either cuz i have fun with people who chose to have fun together (and even if i played solo it would prove my point even more)... no pvp unless we do it for shits and giggles in a sidewinder... so now what? our way of playing is wrong because you say its a pvp game? its not eve, maybe thats more for you... your personal views, especially your encouraging of hate and narrow, min-maxed gameplay (surprisingly plus your complaints about the same damn thing) with your "lists" are not facts... its just your opinion- something you get pretty aggressive about when it comes down to insult stuff other people like (like certain ships or literal content that people love)... toxic like a ganker... and no- it isnt a fucking pvp game no matter how often you repeat overly nostalgic kickstarter could've would've should've nonsense... i ll leave myself out, your channel isnt for positive people anyway...

[@BlazeCore99]

Engineering grind is a major factor in why I don't play Elite very often anymore ☹️

[@mokeiro]

This game should be named Elite Grinderous.

[@denmanfite3156]

Life is literally a grind. So. Sure.

[@denmanfite3156]

@@fishbaitx and?

[@denmanfite3156]

@@fishbaitx you remind me of a general perspective of the gaming community that forgets the "journey is the game." On one hand you people complain that the grind is too much AND THEN you find the exploit flavor-of-the-month and complain there's no end game content to play cause you rushed past it all.

[@denmanfite3156]

@@fishbaitx all complaints from a person who is probably starting up the game. I'm rolling my eyes at you for not realizing how ridiculous you sound.

[@reptile797]

Loving all the butthurt ED kids coming out to show everyone how shit the community can be. Keep on keeping on you annoying ghouls. You can like something and be able to list things wrong with it, but you guys will come to know this when you move out of your moms' houses.

[@mystupid]

Been playing for almost a month. In that time, I've bought and A rated a variety of ships as well as saved up almost 3 billion credits. The one aspect of the game that almost makes me want to quit is Engineering. The no-life grind, the lack of proper in-game guidance, the gankers in Open with engineered ships. Yep, rather than scour websites in order to help you grind for days in-game, go to work. At least you'll be making money.

[@ausardash]

how the hell you make that money

[@TexasSpartan099]

@@ausardash probably mining. 😆

[@ausardash]

@@TexasSpartan099 true, but i heard that is nerfed now, im currently doing bointy hunting, but sometimes i just wanna leave all this and explore the galaxy, maybe in that way the game will be more enyojable and i dont need to worry about money.

[@zomgl2pnoobffs]

@@ausardash You should do exactly that. There's stuff out there. There's even unexpected stuff scattered around in or close to the bubble. You don't have to compete or have the best ship. I'd suggest just unlocking Felicity Farseer and getting a long distance drive, then off into the black.

[@ausardash]

@@zomgl2pnoobffs maybe i should try first the diamond back explorer? i saw the pilot review and its really beatiful and practical ships for that, but i leave the game for a week now...

[@Lazuralus]

Another suggestion would be for the ability to recycle unwanted mods and get about 50% of your materials back.. that would make build theory crafting much easier.

[@readyforlol]

Or just allow us to remove mods from modules/weapons the same way you can remove modules/weapons from your ship and to keep it in stock for later.

[@combativeThinker]

@@readyforlol Or allow you to merely spend credits to install mods you’ve already unlocked with materials.

[@BLACKNORTHERNREIGN]

Years ago I tried to have this conversation and people would tell me that I was totally wrong and say I was full of bull crap and I did not know what I was talking about, despite telling people to simply use some simple math and percentages, and it would be more of a headache than it is worth and they did not want to hear it. I remember prior to Horizons, in some places I would see more actual players than AI npc. I would come across players outside the bubble and that is on Xbox, not PC. When Horizons and Engineers happened, contrary to all the YELLING that a certain group of people were saying about Engineers being the Greatest Thing Ever for the game...people left. Even on PC. Elite used to be a fun game for diverse players that played however they wanted to play, and not being forced to play a certain way. Not any more. Common knowledge now. On the message boards a certain group of people wanted the game to be more challenging and "tailoring" and having an "ultimate end game pvp ship" but this came at the expense of just being simple easy fun for everyone else, many who simply left open play forever, many just stopped playing totally. No secret, But this video shows that perhaps I was not wrong, and that things I have said in the past were valid. I still play Elite, quite regularly on Xbox, in Private Group and Solo much more than the Open "wasteland" now. As a (mostly) PVE trader and explorer I still love the game and still play the game in that manner. However for a silent majority, too much damage has been unfortunately done.

[@MrSteve0311]

Underrated comment

[@marcovalentinoalvarado3290]

Dammit, i did NOT know that Engineers and Horizons did that insane amount of damage, i started to play this game when it was launched free on Epic Games, and i fell in love with it, and being such a complex game it will require a lot more to make me stop playing it

[@theradgegadgie6352]

It would also help if there was ANY significant consequence for being a frigging pirate. A very low wanted level for one hour that automatically expires is NOT a significant consequence.

[@Grayqboufan]

Yep. I only play solo or on private servers because I’ve seen/heard too many horror stories of idiots who have nothing better to do than ruin everyone else’s fun. I’m not interested in combat. I engage in some bounty hunting once in a while for a change in scenery, but there’s so much more to the game than just blowing shit up. Unfortunately, there are enough people on the open servers who think that’s all the game is about. Even people who openly kill Fuel Rats...I mean, really? Not for me. I’d rather play in a galaxy devoid of actual humans surrounded by NPCs.

[@ThatEnglishGent]

Honestly I'm at a point where I'm having to consider doing engineering to get more out of my ships. However... The degree of grind involved is to such an amount that I'd rather just put the game down and not play at all. The biggest issue is all the grind is to make your ship better at doing things to achieve more. The collosal failure of Fdev at the moment is not actually having endgame gameplay. Every addition to the game is just another means to work towards something that, in reality, doesn't exist. The entirety of Elite gameplay is work simulator to which there is no retirement or final project for people to work towards. For me it's to have a homebase on a world (Atmos or barren idc) where I can build upon, store my ships, modify my ships via my own engineering shipyard and allow me some facilities to conduct my own projects like further study into Xeno things or Guardian sights to uncover further secrets. Maybe even to find Raxxla. That's MY endgame

[@donatotusi9140]

I don't think FDev is THAT competent lol They somehow manage to fuck up every single update (and they have no creativity whatsoever)

[@justinsherman9350]

I mean, my end-game is soloing Thargoids, and you're not gonna solo any thargoids without a fair bit of engineering.

[@blackhawks81H]

Raxxla was the friends we made along the way! Lol

[@clkrille]

I started a few weeks ago and had no idea what engineering is. I watched the entire thing and feel much more enlightened! I will never touch this system for sure.

[@lucakeenan5035]

You may have to for certain ships or things you want done, like I have. Since I have no real interest in anything other exploration, what I’ve done is light engineering on my FSD, where I just maxed out G1 increased jump range, basically just by scanning wakes and then using the pinned blueprint from that starter engineer in the deciat system(felicity farseer I think). If I feel like maxing out grade 2 then I’ll do it, same goes for experimental mods, since my DBX can take the heat TL;DR don’t grind for what you probably won’t need

[@GizmoMaltese]

It's a pain but it makes a huge difference. One absolutely necessary upgrade you need is your FSD. Flying around the galaxy is so much easier when you have an upgraded FSD and maybe a guardian FSD booster.

[@mugthemagpie3001]

You should have at least FSD Engineering, because it helps when you want to explore or make a Taxi that basically makes you fly quickly between the spots and recall the factual combat ships. There's a major difference between 45 LY Taxi and 7,21 LY Dakka Dakka.

[@SilverTrickVideos]

Can't agree getting rid of G5 engineering, I can't give up what little FSD range I have

[@giovannibini6809]

I want grade 6 frame shift drive

[@alexandsimba]

@@giovannibini6809 Then get a better ship. Balance should not be scarified for the needs of one person.

[@giovannibini6809]

@@alexandsimba already have fully engineered exploraconda and aspx

[@jamesdinius7769]

I would counter with get rid of g4 and g5 on combat modules. Heck, there's already an instance of that with the SCB (only to g4). Leave it be on utility modules like FSD since they don't unbalance the game.

[@ArcaneEye]

@@alexandsimba but then when you stop and think about it, what kind of balance is jump range? what does it balance against, how long you want to stare at a screen to go from point A to point B?

[@GodDemis]

When you overclock a cpu, you gain performance at the expense of stability and lifetime. Why not make engineering slider bars. The player chooses where to put the slider, for example energy weapons slide to the left and you get less damage, energy consumption and heat. Slide to the right and you get more damage, but also use more energy and heat up faster. That way the player would choose how to build his ship with pros and cons. Shields: one side more hp and less resists, other side the opposite. You get the idea...

[@sakelaine2953]

ALPHA STRIKE RULES THE SKIES!

[@marcobonera838]

then the dev would have to actually work insted of being lazy all day! ;( how dare you tell something like that? (XD)

[@nato3881]

So pips?

[@lmaoroflcopter]

@@sakelaine2953 yup but hey... Glass cannons are fair gameplay and counterable.

[@jamesdinius7769]

​@Hatwox That was uncalled for. Autistics aren't dysfunctional morons. I should know, I am one. Jeez, all this PC culture stuff running around and we still get people like you.

[@MordethKai]

#8, before engineering players had to think about their builds instead of just maxing everything. Before engineering vultures were considered only slightly inferior overall to an FDL and fights between them were apparently more about skill than stats. Removing it will never happen, but I really do think ship builds were a hell of a lot more interesting before it.

[@Sean_Lightning_OBrien]

Lol im a new player and im already annoyed at engineering.

[@oumuamua460]

Alright, I have a suggestion for you..stop playing that boring game and start playing games such as Candy Crush, Bubbles, Mario Kart....so much more rewarding

[@TheCraziestFox]

E:D's new player experience in a nutshell, everyone.

[@workingonanames]

@@oumuamua460 I feel because you mentioned candy crush that this is sarcasm. Am I correct?

[@MetalHardcore1000]

@@workingonanames he's just answering to everyone who comments. Don't even look at him ;)

[@toninhosoldierhelmet4033]

not bashing or anything but i highly recommend deep rock galactic, little fun game, has a few problems of course but nothing absolutely disgusting.

[@fabiz8602]

I wish engineering would just give us more options instead of making ships op

[@CreeperDude-cm1wv]

Force shell... Multicannons railguns frag cannons missiles torpedoes lasers make everything FORCE SHELL

[@combativeThinker]

@@CreeperDude-cm1wv Three words: force shell limpets. Shoot a bunch of limpets on some random pirate and watch as he is propelled via thrusters on the limpets into a nearby asteroid field, where he is ground into space dust.

[@CreeperDude-cm1wv]

@@combativeThinker Yes

[@jamesdinius7769]

It's the Paradox of Choice. Sure, Engineering gives a lot of choices on paper, but a few of those choices render all others invalid.

[@Art790631]

Yeah, I'd give up my engineering for balance.

[@Kinzokugia]

I'd be fine with an engineering rehaul assuming they actually do the compensation you mentioned (and not a single roll less.) But I'd be mad if they simply removed engineering entirely.

[@AlexMacd1]

I've done loads of engineering. I'd be happy with Option 7 presented in here, removing engineering from my modules and starting again if it meant making it better with real game play (as long as I don't have to unlock engineers again... they have enough tea and cigars now). I expect to do this Frontier would have to consult with players quite a bit (you know like business analysts or UX designers talk to people that use their products) because reworking it and making it worse would be... well I'd rather not think about that. Goes without saying that a complete rework of Power Play would also be merited... and good thing about reworking Power Play is I don't think there's a risk of making it worse.

[@Ebalosus]

Same. Personally I think that PP should be done away with, and it’s mechanics used to enhance the faction system already present in the game: you become allied with Alioth Independents (for example), and for helping them out, you get cheaper purchases, repairs, and rebuys at their controlled ports, better payouts for missions, trade, and cartographics, etc. That way, you’ll care more about the present factions, instead of seeing them as mere mission-dispensing slot-machines.

[@PaulLacourse]

"... about reworking Power Play is I don't think there's a risk of making it worse." LOL LOL LOL LOL

[@TheAIKnowledgeHub]

I would only be OK with it IF it removed PVP modules or other things that can interact with others. Because anything like the FSD, since it can't interact with anyone else other than the player who is using it. Complaining about them being over powered says more about the person complaining than the object. I however agree getting it should be changed.

[@yorkshire_tea_innit8097]

True, if they made it a good gameplay loop then you'd want to start again to experience it anyway. It's not like you would be glad to avoid good gameplay.

[@GorillaPHX]

By removing engineering you would single-handedly kill griefers from the game (at least for the most part). It would force players to rely on piloting skills rather than an overpowered ship engineered to death.

[@shadowslayer205]

It would also knock the fer-de-lance off of its pedestal and give the PvP meta actual variety again.

[@ronin47-ThorstenFrank]

Yes!!!! You are both correct!

[@aidandixon6028]

I don't think so, certainly it would put more emphasis on piloting skills but people who just kill mining ships for fun don't exactly need a super engineered ship to grief

[@shadowslayer205]

It won't put an end to griefing, but it will at least get rid of the ridiculous buy-in to make a combat viable build, and horizons will no longer be a pay2win DLC.

[@EdUpton]

I used to PvP back in the day before engineering, now it seems players grind for the best rolls which breaks it entirely.

[@ianoag]

Another suggestion: Instead of offering specific materials as part of various mission rewards, how about those missions offer "Material vouchers/tokens?" These tokens could be accumulated up to say, 300 (or more) then exchanged for materials of your choice to the equivalent value. (e.g. 300 tokens could be exchanged for 60 grade 5 materials, or 75 grade 4, 100 grade 3, 150 grade 2, 300 grade 1 or any combination thereof) If this method was implemented, Players would have more choice when doing missions ( I personally get a bit frustrated when I'm hoping for a mission that's going to give a certain material only to find there's a mats reward for something different) it would also be a lot less "grindy" because you'd be doing more gameplay while slowly earning your desired mats and all you'd need to know was the locations of some Material traders. What do you guys think?

[@antwan1357]

Yamiks is literally giving away billions in product evaluations. Thank you sir.

[@lurkingdaemon3289]

Having started playing Elite recently, and exploring the systems and diversions it offered, it annoyed me immensely that Engineering has overshadowed so much of other gameplay content that would normally be available. In the face of engineering as it is at time of writing, the entire system invalidates all other content within the game, save the content that lets you make credits to afford all the stuff you want to engineer.

[@Dice_Box]

If they were to remove the upgrades I would need a dev to get me home. Where I am can only be reached thanks to my FSD upgrades. Something to add to the discussion.

[@alexandsimba]

And that should be done. For example, if you order food and the waiter drops it on the way to the table, it's common sense that at least they will make it again with no additional charges to you.

[@MinistryOfMagic_DoM]

Plus it would make huge sections of the galaxy unexplorable for a vast majority of players who don't want to use a Fleet Carrier to get there.

[@sintrafalgar2986]

Elite had a great way of balancing: available Power on Ships. Which is way I do believe the overcharged Powerplant mod is the biggest problem, it removed the main balancing tool. Get rid of that mod and while it of course wouldnt be perfect it would be a lot more balanced.

[@justinrandall8757]

I quit ED long ago. Back when Engineers was announced I though it was a dumb idea. My idea was to have a Black Market reputation or quest line and then access to buy illegally modified ship parts (fsd, engines, guns, ect.) as long as you had the credits to buy them. It could have added actual story to the game. Say you went to do missions for a crime boss until he gave you a particular item something to show that he favors you. You go to a black market somewhere on a planet, and if you have that item then you can buy from that outfitter. Also just to keeps players coming back there you put the parts on a rotation or you get info on other black markets that have the part you really want. No grind (other than some missions for the Don) and no need to drive around a planet for hours at a time shooting rocks for materials.

[@csfelfoldi]

Ah the good old times when NPC criminals were full with engineer mods and you haven't bought Horizons yet. "Warning... Thermal Attack!"

[@greathronlayke3374]

been working on engineering 9 days now 17 game crashes and still need lots and lost more just to max out my 10 main ships... personally im ok with all but the grind they need to make it at least easier to get parts....

[@Hippie4Hire]

Got ganked in an A rated Cutter with mild engineering to shields and thrusters, definitely not min maxed. Was doing a community goal trade run a while back and dropped from supercruise thinking I could just put pips into engines and shields and just boost out of there. The pilot took me down in seconds, 1 dude in an FDL. Before I could boost a second time, my drives failed and I was a sitting duck. No idea what they were running as I was panicking, about to lose a ton of money in cargo and the rebuy. As I was nearly destroyed, their buddies dropped in. If I had survived the initial salvos, I wouldn't have lasted long against that kind of attack. Haven't gone back into open since. Total bummer too because I had some great, genuine pirate experiences. One instance where the pilot typed in chat "make me laugh or die". I fumbled, tried to stall them then just responded "man. I really can't tell a joke to save my life." I laughed. They laughed. Then I exploded. Even though I died and lost cargo and credits, it was still a memorable experience and one of my favorite ones in open. Shame that since then it's basically become a gank fest, no talking or RPing, just blow them up and on to the next one.

[@dyshonoured4737]

That pilot is probably running torpedo with reverberating cascade, which instantly thermal overloads your shield module on impact. But anyways, PVP is poorly balanced in elite overall. Only a select few ships are actually viable and it's either go with the meta loadouts or instantly explode:/ boring af...

[@ChrisFowlerNH]

Of ALL the material grinding, tungsten haunts me the most. Easy enough to get but damn, seems as though it takes a TON of it for upgrades. It's ALWAYS the material I'm running out of first. Great video. Keep up the good work.

[@boiledelephant]

Arsenic, manganese, germanium... :(

[@StimkySkunko]

Tungsten at least you can reliably get at the crashed Anacondas, and farm it there (alongside Ruthenium, Antimonium and Tellurium, if I remember correctly). But some others, to get them reliably instead you have either to trade them at very inconvenient exchange rates at material traders, or go to either of these two systems quite far away from the Bubble where you can reliably get almost all high grade materials. And both things are a massive slog, to say the least.

[@ronin47-ThorstenFrank]

Thank you, Yamiks. Just thank you. I´ve been saying this for years now but I seemed to be the lone voice in the darkness. I just got tears in my eyes because at least one of the Yters has adressed this issue! EDIT: In the current status pvp is broken beyond repair. I don´t have any fun in combat in this game or better: I had because I didn´t touch the game for over a one and half year now. because of this. The git gud some players often tell never really applied - shooting endlessly on an enemy without even scratching the paint on him while he get´s two shots and you´re remains hurdle through space isn´t good pvp. Fix this. I can live without ´legs or even planetary landings (wait - old Frntr and F.FE player here: I want that too) but the current combat system is broken as hell. Even those combat/conflict zones don´t make any sense.

[@doltBmB]

You forgot the most important thing to me, it made loot useless. Before engineers you could explore and find valuable loot to sell on the black market. Salvage was a good source of income early on and it was interesting to explore. Now all you get is materials which unless you go on the engineer treadmill is entirely worthless.

[@commandernomad2817]

6:58 how did you get footage of me landing? :O

[@richardhockey8442]

'space police' 'drunk in charge of an FTL vessel, Sir? - I'm afraid I'm going to have to take your keys and take you back to the station'

[@hydranmenace]

They can keep it as is. I quit playing months ago. I mean, my choices as a new player were either dump dozens of hours on end into grinding which isn't fun, or get blown up by players that have been playing for years who have fully upgraded ships and billions of credits who are bored with everything except killing new players for lols, or find another game to play.

[@zomgl2pnoobffs]

Your other choice is to play solo or with a few friends and explore all the content and don't worry about what everyone else is doing.

[@benbaselet2026]

You nag like open play was the only option...

[@Deltarious]

Late to the party here but regarding specifically players wanting to pay credits for engineering materials the reason is pretty straightforward, and in a somewhat bold statement I am going to argue that *every* player experiences this phenomenon to a greater or lesser extent depending on the person, the oft mocked *immersion* . Because what we're essentially doing when engineering, as presented story wise by the game itself, is giving people with in-universe big brains exotic materials to work their space magic on our components. Unfortunately, players have some expectations, that're brought with them from the real world, that the universe follows some sort of logic. In reality there is no reason whatsoever that if you were hyper rich you could not pay someone to source rare materials for you to give to someone else to make something out of, in fact that is an entire industry and profession in the real world. It's therefore natural to automatically make that link in your head that the materials are "real" because it feels right if they *are* real, and there is no logical explanation the game provides for it being otherwise, which creates a dissociation between reality and the game which is noticeable, and thus lowers "immersion" by being arbitrary and breaking the illusion. Basically in a sentence it does not "feel right" without some piece of lore or other reasoning why they aren't real materials, and I think everyone has at least some sense of that regardless of whether they freely accept it or it bothers them to some degree. I'm not particularly against engineering materials being 'tokens' myself but it is certainly an inelegant solution, and the most satisfying way to resolve it would probably be to make acquiring them truly skill based, with some lore/fluff to go with them that cements them as unique one-off items for your upgrades. Having to gather "Iron" seems silly because it's generic and it should be assumed that the engineer or player can easily get it for their work, it's having to suspend that disbelief for the game's sake that sows that tiny seed of doubt in your mind about the universe and reduces your overall enjoyment, something which I posit happens to every single player regardless if they notice it or not as grinds do not feel grindy (and are debatably not grinds anymore by definition) if you're fully and totally enjoying them. However what if you had to take your ship, and your module that is to be upgraded, through some sort of process to either "synthesize" "attune" or maybe "bond" (take your pick of fluff words and methods) a material or upgrade from the exact component and/or ship you have in order to make it work. This works really well mentally because it's absolutely reasonable for things on the bleeding edge of technology to have no established process whereby you can create the materials required to manufacture new hardware, so it opens the door for trial and error type mechanics and lore/fluff that feels a lot more like your components are made from ever increasingly difficult "one-offs" each building on the last. Oh and as a thanks if you made it this far, to answer a question posed in the video: I would give up everything if it meant a truly better game. The only thing that would sting a little for me would be reduced jump ranges as I've grown used to them, everything else I would notice maybe but not care so much about.

[@casbyness]

This feels like the feature length movie of all those engineering videos you did before. I wathced the TV series, now I've come to see the final showdown on the big screen :)

[@vogonp4287]

They should make it so that certain engineered modules keep you from engineering others and add larger downsides to some modules. For instance, if you engineer your shields, you could be unable to engineer hull and weapons and have a greater heat gain on top of that.

[@Shenron67]

I can let my engineering go, although the FSD Jump Range would be kinda annoying and I like my super agile Cobra, but for everything else...

[@cpt.fisher7836]

try Python, even with engineering its slugish as your grandma

[@Shenron67]

@@cpt.fisher7836 I have one, I also have an Anaconda, a Krait, a Chieftain and many more. But what's important is that my Cobra is wonderful.

[@oumuamua460]

@@cpt.fisher7836 Says who? Who are you? Python is one of the best ships in the game (for those who know how to fly and have skills). Any ship can be turned into a great weapon (even a sidewinder) as long as you got skills. Obviously not your case...

[@MordethKai]

Remove engineering, give all ships an additional 30-50 jump range across the board, best solution in my opinion.

[@honnorgaurd]

@@oumuamua460 wow dude, triggered easily? i know we all have our favorite ships but throttle back and chill... if you disagree with his claim then fine, be mature about it and state your case. but quickly throwing out insults and provocation to someone you dont even know only destroys your own credibility. Honestly it doesnt take an expert to see that he's not wrong. The python is a great ship. one of the best in the game and is many things, but fast and agile was never one of them. again, that doesnt make it a bad ship and like you said, if you play it right it can dominate. but he wasnt talking about if its good or not. he just stated its sluggish. which isnt a wrong statement. sure, you can engineer it and everything, but you can say that about any other ship and throw that same upgrades on them and python will still be sluggish in comparison. Frankly you made a moot point because player skill has nothing to do with whether a ship is good or not. Sure, i could kill an anaconda with a sidewinder if i tickle its balls long enough from behind, but that still doesnt change the fact that i could do that same job much faster and easier in an FDR

[@stompyrobutts]

I have a neat story where I just bought my first anaconda and I was doing LTD mining to pay for it, and fit it. I bought it pretty much as soon as I could afford it, which i shouldn't have. But regardless I got it sorta fitted, took it back out to mine, and when i arrived in system, I was interdicted by a player in an a viper MkIV. He won, because i didn't know how to really fly large ships in supercruise yet, and we popped into normal space. One salvo from him, my shields were down. What? Okay, i was a mining build, I had a pretty weak shield gen for my size. Another salvo. 0% hp. Luckily I hadn't mined anything yet, and only lost the insurance cost and limpets, but still, two shot by a ship less than a third my mass, before i even had the chance to turn around and return fire. I was baffled. Shortly after, I bought horizons... Last night, mining with a buddy, who just got his barely fitted conda. Im now in a relatively noob engineered anaconda. Switched to the same size 4 shield gen, but bi-weave, with some resistance boosters, and a heavy duty booster. Some better weapon fitting with a little engineering on those too. Same mining system. He gets interdicted by another player conda, he falls out, but im in wing nav lock with him, and im sure the other conda was surprised to see me. Together, we manage to fight him off and he supercruises out of the fight with superficial damage to ourselves. We continue on course to our rings. Later, after we fill our holds, we get to the sell system and I get interdicted this time, by a player python, but my wing man was not nav locked to me, so when i dropped out, I was alone. Divert power to engines, throttle to 75%, boost turn to face my enemy while simultaneously deploying hardpoints. Im assuming he was trying to scan me because I opened fire first, and with more than he expected because he immediately boosted to try and get out of my firing arcs. He hits me hard, so I pop my Lone shield cell, followed by the heat sink a few seconds later. Frameshift is ready to charge at this point, and I smack that, full throttle and boost away. So on one hand, Engineering can be broken op, on the other, it completely saved my skin. Of course, one part was having more experience, but the other part was being more prepared for the situation than my opponent was, but a big part of that was the foretold engineering aswell. It can make a huge difference, and can vastly alter the outcome of interactions with other ships, player or otherwise.

[@nato3881]

Related to that in part, if I were in open play anymore I'm not sure I would recognise a player entirely by username alone, apart from the slow to shoot behaviour, a lot of the NPCs in Solo now have Trollface names I've noticed, that make you question whether that's a old player asset being used by an AI after it was forgotten about

[@miskatonic6210]

In the time it took you to write your gaming story I fucked a girl five times.

[@7.8billionplus19]

@@miskatonic6210how many times would she say she was just fucked? the answer is how many likes you have

[@barizard]

Could you make a "what u CANT do in multicrew" ? I'de love to see that.

[@keithsmithld]

I have to say that Yamiks videos are very informative and at the same time halarious as f:;! Thank you for making learning about ED fun!

[@bryanholden6855]

Never wanted engineering. Spoke out loudly against it in the beginning and was crucified. It was called "crafting" in the beginning. Turns it into Farmville if you ask me. I vote for dumping it completely.

[@joshl6275]

I can already hear the howls of outrage from people who have invested their lives in this.

[@bryanholden6855]

@@joshl6275 Yeah - me too. Lol. If we have to have it, and there are some good aspects to it I admit, then I would prefer to keep it to such things as FSD improvements and fuel synthesis and so on. But leave it out of all things combat related. Oh the angst! I can hear that one too.

[@joshl6275]

@@bryanholden6855 Or can just make it optional, much like freeplay. Players who want to opt out of fighting engineered player ships (in terms of combat not nonpvp upgrades) will only enter servers where other non engineered players play. I suspect this would be such a soft nerf that it would still piss them off. But let them play their games and leave the rest of us to enjoy a game where game mechanics that artificially extend play time with completely disinteresting, boring, and fun killing tasks don't ruin the experience for us.

[@tristanglock4925]

I agree that engineering needs change and i have something of an idea myself. I think the best way to go is to make engineering all about side grades and specializing into roles. This could also help to change how monolithic the combat meta has become by creating new roles to fill in combat. With this i think a good way to go is to rework how you take what upgrades. Instead of being locked into a single upgrade and taking that from tier one to two ect... you can pick one upgrade for every level allowing some upgrades to be designed to sinergize with each other instead of having to stand on their own and then just have the experimental effects act as sort of top level upgrade that always adds some significantly different effect to the modual that totally changes the ways players think about and use them. obviously these are general rules and should not be applied universally across all moduals. Also if you have ever played Deep rock galactic that's kinda where is stole this idea from.

[@RadimentriX]

as someone who bought the game because it was advertised as singleplayer and now only plays with friends and does PvE, i like the upgrades we have now. regeneration sequence is great for playing with mates, upgraded shield boosters make combat more enjoyable, i think all that stuff should stay. the more useless upgrades could need some overhaul though. i also agree with the need for information. it's something we desperately need since 2014 and i don't understand why it's so hard to give us proper numbers

[@benjaminshaw1863]

Uhm the material exchange thing is actually usefull, it saved me ALOT of time

[@argleschnarble9441]

As an Ex-player, I remember spending hours rolling around earning materials to engineer my modules and such... Literal days have been spent driving around planets, fighting in Haz-Rez zones and scanning ship wakes for those upgrade points... And I had enjoyed almost every moment of it. I haven't really played the game since the announcement of the Carriers over two years ago.. But as someone who never played in Open, I had only ever used the engineering to make meme ships viable.. Do I see that it makes PvP and Ganking players overpowered? Yes. Did it effect me personally? No. But that's it... I played Elite for the fun of playing a game, because that's what it is... A game. Would I have more fun without engineering? No, of course not. Because then my meme I-Courier with 3 x Imerial Hammers wouldn't be able to function. I built an FDL with 4 x Hammers and a Huge PA, which is only possible to run (without overheating) with engineering. Yes, the PvP meta is insane with Boosters and experimentals, but that's what a Meta is... If the Devs actually saw the % of players using each module upgrade and BALANCED them from there, this wouldn't be a problem.. But with the extreme lack of "new" content (Over the past two years, there have been... What, 4 ships? 3 of which are just sub-models?), and no grasp of how to balance the playstyles (Other than nerfing mission rewards to the ground) I don't think I'll ever return.. Engineering or no. (Hell, the impending Fleet Carrier drop was about to get me playing again, until we saw the price, then I just didn't care again.)

[@sotetsotetsotetsotetsotet2379]

Just because you found enjoyment from flawed mechanics doesn't mean that the mechanics aren't flawed and holding back a medicore game from being a superb game. Some people enjoy gambling, that doesn't make it content.

[@vojtaliska1430]

31:50 be like: 'I can feel the warp overtaking me. It is a good pain!'

[@richardweatherstone2506]

Your vids crack me up. A mass of information with a dash of anger and humour. Keep up the gr8 work.

[@cswann8]

All I want are either Community Goal rewards, or some other group-specific missions/challenges that reward fully engineered ship modules.

[@egmont5044]

Drastic changes are out of the question. I would like small changes. Balance pass on weapon: buff cannons, multis, and dumbfire missiles and decrease absolute damage of plasma to 33%. Retraction of hardpoints should protect weapons from seeker missiles. Increase speed of torpedoes. Fix shadow ramming or decrease ram damage so shadow ram is less of a deciding factor in fights. Equip all ships with non-removable fuel scoop. Allow remote transfer of modules to any system, not just one player is currently in. Increase size and detail of explosions to current gaming standards.

[@BlackStar250874]

I agree highly. Engineering has gone over the edge, because now many think that *only* engineered ships are something worthwhile. And combat, is, well. Not a matter or much skill anymore. More about how much you can "grind".

[@Kecohawk]

All this time i though i was gathering materials 1 by one (never counted them lol) Nice vid yamiks greetings!

[@AniGaAG]

"Fer-de-Lance, anyone?" I swear, if that ship wasn't so fun to fly, I'd be WAY angrier at it.

[@jamesdinius7769]

First, apologies for the rant in advance. It got out of hand when I was writing it, but I'm gonna put it out anyway, see if anyone feels the same. The two things I hate most about engineering are actually two of the engineers, Mel Brandon and Marco Qwent. I hate Mel Brandon because he is the only one that can max out a SCB, even though he's OUT NEAR COLONIA. That is just stupid. Make it a bubble engineer locked behind several others, but do NOT force me to go to Colonia for COMBAT ENGINEERING. Yes, it's getting me to try other gameplay, but while the FSD engineers required me to travel some distance and thus sample exploration to get RELATED ENGINEERING Brandon forces me to make a long as heck trip. The only other unique engineering out there is fuel scoop, and quite frankly shielded fuel scoop is nearly useless. Still, my point stands. Colonia engineers should not have exclusive engineering. It makes no sense from either a gameplay or lore perspective. Now on to Marco Qwent. First, his unlock is really annoying. You have to give him Modular Terminals, which only come as mission rewards, and since they have to be stored on your ship, gathering them actively impedes getting more by taking up cargo space. Oh, and don't forget, he's in a permit locked system. Second, he is USELESS as an engineer. He is one of two engineers that cannot G5 anything, and he can only engineer two things. You may be thinking, well then why deal with him. That brings me to my third reason: Three engineers are locked behind him, clearly just to make him useful. Yes, two of them are exactly the same in terms of unlock requirements and what they do (which in it of itself is stupid). You could also argue he's not that bad since no unique engineering is locked up in this tangle, but remember that in the case of thrusters, another essential combat tool, the only place to G5 them other than an engineer locked behind Qwent is the aforementioned Mel Brandon. Also, one of the engineers locked behind Qwent is in Shinrarta Dezhra, so effectively a double permit lock. Also, it makes no sense, that engineer should be a reward for reaching Elite (there are other engineers that require you to reach a rank, so why not this), not locked behind Qwent. Rant over. Thanks for reading.

[@brandonchambers5397]

That was not a rant, that was speaking the truth!

[@zomgl2pnoobffs]

You don't have to give Marco Qwent all the modular terminals at once.

[@MrZlocktar]

13:10 Technically it's not true. This upgrade was designed for ships based on Bi-Weave shields. Try to recharge Bi-Weave shield of class 7 without your SYS capacitor dying in seconds. And once it's dead, you can't even do anything untill shield will recharge itself. Which it will do twice long because there is not enough of capacity and recharge speed because of you - using weapon focused or charge enhansed which are known as meta.

[@wheelmangames5366]

I run out of Point Defense every day Yamiks. Hey you asked ya dead horse!

[@TheYamiks]

I take it, you are sitting in conflictzones right?

[@wheelmangames5366]

@@TheYamiks conflict zones, REZ, Pirated space that occupies my own butt.. You name it! The galaxy is big and there is A LOT more pew pew it there than in your own community.

[@yorkshire_tea_innit8097]

They should have attached pretty much every upgrade to killing thargoids, in addition to the grind of mining, surface exploration etc. Then the gameplay loop is a mix of action, then slow relaxing gathering to solidify your achievement against the thargoids. I would personally prefer if the thargoid materials (or all) were a physical object you need to carry in your hold and occupied multiple storage spaces. This would make the engineering more of a mission than a passive collection frenzy. It would make the engineering more of an event that stands out, much like the guardian stuff did but better.. Perhaps this gameplay loop would only apply to the top 2 levels of engineering upgrade. Perhaps you can also do it with guardians too. Like for example with fsd and limpet upgrades or something. Given that they are know to have good automated tech. It would be doubly good if the alien hybrid engineering creates a minor asthetic adjustment to whe the module is used e.g. fsd flash could partially take on a guardian or thargoid look. Same with projectiles and shield flare. Limpets just have a blue thruster instead of white. It would be pretty easy to do given that most of these effects are already made. Not too flashy, just real subtle given that it is a hybrid of human and alien after all. If they made it so all materials were related to aliens, it would explain why they aren't for sale or mass market available at every outpost. A law prohibiting the trade of alien tech perhaps.

[@MoraFermi]

When Engineering rolled out, I was happy to take a stab at the system and try upgrading everything I could. It got boring quick, so it wasn't long when the only items I would bother with were related to FSD range. I would happily sacrifice my upgrades for a new, improved, fresh system.

[@mokeiro]

I havent seen any other game, where the devs are so disconnected, it has the worst grind, boring, and you must do only to be able to play open and no die from a some child rat griefer who killed you in 2 shots with his engineered weapons, one shot to destroy your shield and hull, and the other just to humiliate you, so you are forced to do an endless mindless gring just like the child rat did, just to have a chance. It al least they care about make the grind somewhat fun, like in the mmo games like wow, you kill monster or a boss, and have fun doing it and in the top maybe you are rewarded with some loot, but the loot is a added reward over the fun of beating the boss, here the grind is go to some forgotten planet, shot some stupid rocks, run over the loot, log off, log on, repeat, sit besides a station, scan signals. A game with endless posibilities ruined like this.

[@ShadowryuuPmP]

Only other example i can think of is Destiny 1and 2. Lack of in game information. Information you do get in game are vague and not really useful. Balancing does not exist. etc

[@lengthOFpole]

CCP's Dust 514 was basically developed in the same way. right into the ground.

[@yorhaunit8s]

@@ShadowryuuPmP At least in Destiny 2 I had a great deall of fun. Shooting is fun there, exploring with friends is fun there. You get through all the content quickly, sure. But at least it's there! Elite, on the other hand, doesn't even have that.

[@ShadowryuuPmP]

@@yorhaunit8s You talk like anyone ever said anything about not having fun in the game.

[@Pablo-js6vn]

I was searching for some info about this game cause I saw it's 75% off on steam and it looks so good but now that I saw your comment I'm really giving a second thought if I should buy it or not :/

I've got a proposal for the grind. Make it related to actually using the upgrade. After so many points with it, you can unlock the next upgrade on a component. (Because telemetry blablabla.) And when transfering to another ship then it was tuned on, maybe you lose a few points (since it's not as well tuned). Prevents players from just building up huge stockpiles.

[@armandsskutans6500]

i think a quicker fix would be making "game tokens" an actual sellable market item, perhaps as part of galactic auction house between players. that would incentivise people to undertake the grind, and for newer players that would make it really encouraging to actually undertake the engineer finding and investing time with them.

[@Valhalla.Studio]

I recently got back in ED and still haven't bothered with Engineering at all tbh, but I feel like I'm forced to do it eventually if I want to have a half decent ship unfortunately :( Sticking with solo play for now which sucks, because I really enjoyed encountering other players back in 2015 when I played.

[@peoplez129]

You'd want to do it for solo anyways. It helps everywhere, from doubling your jump distance to increasing available power which decreases overheating, to making your ship more maneuverable and even making your sensors either better or lighter for even longer jump distance. I think the most important for a solo player is upping jump distance and power availability. You can charge the jump drive while you're scooping and not overheat, which is a time saver. The trick to engineering materials is to do one of the level 4 and 5 material grinds and go to a material trader and trade down. You can trade a relatively small amount of level 4 and 5 materials to be turned into a lot of level 1, 2, 3 materials. You just have to grind out several back and forth trips at key places. While engineers is a bit funky in how it does things, it can help in other ways too. Some people might use it to be the most deadly ship. But you can also make your jump drive charge in 2 seconds instead of 10. So there are also ways to make your ship able to escape encounters against players. With that 2 second jump drive charge and good fuel reserves, you can outrun ships with a huge lead. By the time they've scanned your wake and jumped, you'll already be long gone, keeping them running in circles until they either run out of interest or run out of fuel. Even though it's just running away, it's still winning, because they will get even more frustrated not being able to catch you than if you had killed them.

[@bitmau5]

25:53 - I can answer that one, in relation to this case; Leadership. (or lack thereof)

[@MrCayuga]

TheYamiks AKA "Every incompetent game designer's nightmare". This is comedy gold.

[@foreverspellman]

I've done plenty of engineering myself. The starting out gameplay grind (bringing several trips of a "rare" commodity to gain favor with an engineer, googling for where the best material farming locations are for what I needed, etc) was atrocious. But, with enough time invested, you can get to a point where you will hardly ever need to grind for materials. Once you get them unlocked, they're unlocked forever. Their status with you doesn't deteriorate. It feels rewarding to say "I wanna make a PVP ship", build one out, figure out what engineering I want to do, and go and do it within about 4 hours total time. This is significantly faster, and rewards me for my play time, in some degree. That said, engineering could be more varied. I want to engineer my SRV (pimp my ride), I want to engineer internal components with something other than MISC stuff that doesn't change over modules. I want a significant % nerf to shield boosters and other % based engineering, unless the reverse can happen, where literally every engineering thing is % based.

[@THEmobius77]

on the positive side, engineering makes me feel a bit more attached to my ship.. on the negative side, it totally breaks pve, pvp, forces all new players into solo mode and gives you grey hair...

[@kelemonopy]

problem is that it is now required to survive open if not the game at large as higher level npcs have them if your not going against the ultra broken builds

[@dredpiratesnoop2607]

I like the concept of the engineering and certain upgrades fsd range increases and dirty drag drives should definitely stay. I’d be extatic with let’s say 3 quick fixes. 1. Make the conditions for spawning eg pharmaceutical isolators actually happen on a semi regular basis. 2 increase the drop rate from 3-5 (I’d take more ... too much to ask for 10?) 3. Make the material exchange a straight 2-1 in both axis ie 2 grade 1 mats = 1 grade grade 2 mat. And 2 grade 5 mats of one kind can be traded for 1 grade 5 of another kind. Still a bit of a grind but not 4hours per night for a week to fully upgrade 1 ship. I’m happy to spend 1 or 2 evenings building a new ship but not a week or more... by the time I finish building my best ever LTD miner I’m so pissed off with it I do t want to go do the mining .... I grind to enable me to grind. If I was Braben for just one day I would take away all the dev team cheat codes and make them play the game we play.... I predict 1 month later we get the best patch of all time !

[@_chirp_6108]

The hull conundrum can be fixed by the following: Every ship has a standard hull mass (the mass of the ship without any modules). Why not reflect this value *as* the lightweight bulkheads' mass? (And increase the reinforced/milspec bulkheads' mass with this value) Bulkheads are unique per ships anyway. Also, this would allow you to engineer lightweight hull with lightweight armor modifier.

[@DragoCubX]

I personally don't really have a problem with engineering in general (as I don't really engage in direct PvP). I think that some completely broken blueprints should be adjusted, and that material trader exchange rates be made much better. Oh, and FSD wake scanning should just be removed, it's quite simply the most stupid and useless gameplay in this game that I know of.

[@demiserofd]

FSD wake scanning should be changed into an actual minigame. Perhaps one that gives the experience of Interdiction without the actual crime? For the people who don't like being criminals to still get to experience it a bit. So you, like, ride their FSD wake for a bit(non-aggressively), and the more precisely you ride it the faster you get data, the longer you stay on it the better data you get, but the harder it gets. That way it's actual gameplay, not just empty grind.

[@DragoCubX]

@@demiserofd That sounds like a great idea. If you're willing to, I'd propose you post that on the Frontier Forums (I think it's the "Dangerous Discussion" section where you post this kind of suggestion). Only place with a realistic chance of some dev seeing it (and it should be seen imo).

[@dcorman]

Wake scanning has an actual purpose, and that is to pursue fleeing enemies. But... as a grind for resources, it sucks

[@ErroneousBox]

Wake scanner is vital for hunting and pvp, it's like saying we don't need hatch breaker limpets because we can just blast the cargo hatch open.. Well yes but no

[@zomgl2pnoobffs]

@@dcorman I have hundreds of wake resources, which I get by scanning a couple of wakes when I see them. It's easy not to grind. Just don't grind.

[@BGLocet]

when you get excited to click on a new video but its only the dumb premiere thing .. .....

[@vaporisedair4919]

Yamiks is teasing us!

[@Moosemansmithy]

In some regards I like the aspect of grinding to build ships. It really does feel like you've put some work into it when you finish it. There are those times where you work your ass off build something and it just doesn't work. That's the learning curve I suppose. But then there are other times where I began to dread doing the grind. Being forced to do missions for particular materials oftentimes sucks ass. Sometimes when you are in a wing with other people the pain of the grind is mitigated through the camaraderie of you and a couple of drunken friends who have the same end goal. The grind ensures that everyone doesn't really have the same thing. It also sort of weeds out those people who aren't really willing to work to have what they want. Unfortunately it also weeds out the people who would love to participate in those aspects of gameplay but simply do not have a schedule that will accommodate it. Every time they hop on the game it's Grind Time because that's just how the game is in the beginning. Especially when it comes to unlocking engineers and doing rank grinding. Fortunately when those grinds have been completed they are done for good. The materials grind on the other hand have definitely been something that have caused people I know to leave the game. they say they simply don't have enough time to grind for what it is they plan to build. That's what have limits Elite dangerous to a specific kind of player.

[@chrislehto4301]

I don't even play this game anymore, and I still watch your videos.

[@TheYamiks]

Thank you ! =}

[@sylvan429]

The customization engineering offers is great, and I like how it forces you to roam the bubble hunting down these space hermits, but there are a ton of problems as you point out. The idea to ship modules to engineers is especially good, and it would give a new purpose to the engineer levelling system: higher your level with the engineer, the less time they take or credits they charge to ship the module to you.

[@lordcola-3324]

I have been playing for 3 days and I think you just convinced me to quit the game.

[@Zenobeus]

I thoroughly enjoy your content, thanks for taking the time.

[@zacharygamble6208]

as a noob.. trying to play elite like its a mmo.. this really killed it for me

[@hahtos]

As a Thargoid hunter killing interceptors in a Cutter, don't touch my shield boosters!

[@trazyntheinfinite5124]

Same here, i need my shields to stand a chance against the damn bugs.

[@EB-fc2mp]

@@trazyntheinfinite5124 Or maybe, just maybe, FDev should balance those too? In accordance with all their other balancing to, you know, balance the game?

[@digiscream]

I still maintain that the only thing that was desperately wrong with the original Engineers implementation was the introduction of the special effects. If you go back through the history of it, there have been at least *three* game-breaking balance passes made specifically to cope with the problems inherent in the special effects, all starting with the heat meta. Yes, there was the issue of shield boosters, but they could easily have sorted that one by - ironically - making shield boosters generate a ton more heat (thus preventing people from going ham on ships with 6 or more utility slots). Anyway...yeah, the heat meta. Every single solution they tried failed to fix the problem and created yet another meta out of it, until they finally made it all pointless by making sure that no heat weapon could actually do any significant damage other than the annoying audio prompt that your ship's getting a bit toasty.

[@bigfootffk]

The original Elite had the best upgrade path, start with the station upgrades and then work for the military to get the good stuff.

[@Spatula007]

do powerplay next!!! good video dude, it was long but didn't feel like it was and great points.

[@TheYamiks]

I did... back in the day

[@Lambonights]

Never liked engineering, the game was better balanced before they added it.

[@alexandsimba]

And jackasses attacking newbies were easier to kill too. The whole reason I got into engineering was cause I kept running into engineered fer de lance and Imperial cutters with overpowered shields.

[@ereder1476]

engeneered should be less grindy but also more of a temp upgrade. losing your mods mean losing the engi upgrade (they are suppose to be one of a kind that money can't buy) that way they become more accessible (because less grindy) but you also take a risk by using them in PvP since a mistake could lead you to lose them. it will also make it so that you won't really engi EVERYTHING because that would be like being in EVE with a 20b deadspace fit (ALOD)

[@stad_]

ugh this game is so disappointing. i used to love this game until engineering came out. i swear it was like whoever designed 1.0 was a genius and then quit the company and have had fuck-ups running the show ever since.

[@ThatJerseyBloke]

Frontier SUX!

[@IsaBilal]

I think that was in 1984.

[@YaddaYaddaDa]

Lol totally. I was into PvP heavily until engineering and then everyone I used to fight with and against started quitting

[@Krystalchan2009]

I think in elite one of my favorite experimental was actually super pen for rail guns. It did make the guns overall a bit more powerful but rewarded those who were accurate with them, and learning how to line up multiple targets on a ship paid off. but the rest of the system can really burn in hell

[@Crystan]

I think the biggest engineering change I'd miss if it were removed is the FSD increase. I need my jump range, and that would include the tier 5 upgrades. I do agree that some upgrades like the shields and armor need some serious overhauls, but there are plenty of more benign ones which don't deserve the axe.

[@TheAIKnowledgeHub]

My only problem with 7 (removing everyone's upgrades) is removing the FSD booster. You have people out in the middle of no where, and it could easily make the game just not worth it due to the time it takes to travel vs how much free time they have. For the PVP part, I highly agree. Basically, if a thing can interact with another player, then I agree with 7. But if it cant' (like FSD and a few others), then what is the problem? If you have a PVE module, and you don't want it over powered. Don't use it. If you can't control yourself or say everyone should be ding because you can't control yourself. Then that is like you saying no one can have cars since you can't stop yourself from speeding. It says more about you, and maybe you need to see a head doctor about your problems.

[@chrisdunford2346]

Nobody seems to consider that if you remove all the grind from Elite Dangerous then what are you left with? What would you do all day? What gameplay is there to hold your interest? What do you strive for? Maybe it's because I'm from an older generation where I never got instant gratification and had to work long and hard for a reward, but I think having to grind a bit for engineering upgrades increases the satisfaction when I gain a particular modification. Or should we just be allowed to buy a fully modded Anaconda straight off the shelf on day one of play. In which case what is there on day two? I fully agree that the current implementation of engineering is nuts in some ways, especially the maths involved and even more so with ie lightweight armour. There should be more scenarios like unlocking the Guardian FSD blueprint, which is one of the best days play I've had within game. Log on respawn log off for materials is just ridiculous. Proof that the current implementation is broken. Personally I think engineering is great: I love to be able to customize my ships for specific purposes, but I'd be happy if the whole system was scrapped and replaced with something a little more sane. I'd also like to see stuff like ship kits and paint jobs available within game instead of having to accumulate arx or even worse spend money on them. Even if the price of the next upgrade was increased slightly to compensate. And what about if I could carry spares in my cargo? Or parts for other ships instead having them transported separately. Or things I might need that are not currently fitted in my ship that could be swapped out when convenient. Just engineering related ideas. Btw you must have spent a looooong time editing this video. An excellent piece of work. Thank you.

[@HalNordmann]

I agree with your opinion on the Guardian FSD Booster, I had a lot of fun building my DBX for jump range, driving around the ruins, and I even found a friendly player there! ED needs more stuff like that.

[@jamesdinius7769]

A few problems. 1) Some of us want something enjoyable when we take a break from the real grind that is life. 2) You have to do it every single time. 3) The grind required, especially for encoded mats is boring and repetitive.

[@ianoag]

Great video! If Engineering was either simpler and more explanatory/option 7 or removed completely, perhaps my friends would play again (i.e. they can't be bothered to grind all the mats, they just want to fly around delivering cargo and killing things !)

[@LokiCDK]

Biggest issue with the shared storage was that you could be full, but not have what's needed to complete any thing. :(

[@trimat2016]

I don't mind the engineering system particularly as it stands, you're always going to have some imbalance in any system, so there will always be a 'best' mod regardless. However, I'm at the point after a few months playing off and on that I'm on the verge of quitting simply because of the materials grind. I've weathered my way through much of the other grinds in the game but this has me beat. I only have half a dozen ships but after weeks of grinding materials I still can't see an end in sight. Whomever came up with this idea needs to be whipped through the streets of London. It's the worst game design I've seen in nearly 40 years of PC gaming.

[@EM-ks5my]

Material gathering, I find it so stupid, you mine asteroids for minerals but you need to do it on the planet surfaces? I would say, nope, it's utterly stupid. Also the rover gun is soo Annoying!! Why not a continuous beam laser!! Or better a drill!!! To bring something different!!!

[@Grimmwoldds]

Grinding for resources on planets is pretty much "This game is not fun. Let me show you how not fun it is."

[@jober112]

As a pre-horizons player I can confirm that engineers turned the balance on it's head. I have a secondary account without Horizons just to play a balanced game where you have to manage your ship loadout. It will be a nightmare going back to the days of 20ly being a decent jump range, but at least combat will be entertaining.

[@leviathanskiss8720]

YOU? YOU?... ... ... FOUND YOU AT LAST! I've laughed so much thanks to you. Brilliant but now I've found your channel... YESSSSSSSS. COME ON, BRING IT ON, more Elite FUN.

[@TheYamiks]

weirdly it's not that hard to find me =}

[@leviathanskiss8720]

@@TheYamiks Hi, sorry I didn't explain. Some of the great videos I've watched from The Pilot features You're voice, you made me laugh and the 2 of you made a great video featuring this massive fleet carrier but I wasn't aware of who you were so whilst watching The Pilots videos this morning, I came across this Engineering video made by The Tammie and to great surprise, it was You. Both Yourself and The Pilot make for great entertainment whilst watching the features about my Favourite game, Elite Dangerous: Horizons and your both a real pleasure to watch and listen too. Now I know who You are, I've been able to Subscribe and I'm really glad to of found you. I should of explained this earlier, sorry. Keep those very entertaining videos coming and if You n The Pilot team up again as you did in that Carrier video, well I'll have to become a paid viewer. Both of you are VERY ENTERTAINING. More Elite please.

[@leviathanskiss8720]

I hate these auto correct functions. I spelt out The Yamiks but my tablet changed it to Tammie. I've just noticed. Stupid speed typing.