How Far We Have Fallen - From A Heart Of Ice Too A Tramp Stamp - The Defilement Of Nora Fries

[@LordNithilus]

"Think of it Batman, To never again walk on a summers day with the hot wind in your face and a warm hand to hold. Oh yes, I'd kill for that."

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

"You want to live like this!? Abandoned and alone!? A prisoner in a world you can see but never touch!? Old and infirm as you are, I'd trade a thousand of my frozen years for your worst day."

[@curtisthornsberry4236]

"Ice to meet you"

[@cledgefenrir5681]

@@curtisthornsberry4236 "Hey, there Freeze. I'm Batman"

[@RobotTanuki]

"What killed the dinosaurs? THE ICEEEEEE AGGEEEEEEE"

[@elitegamer9310]

​@@RobotTanuki "I'm all out of Ice puns."

[@Sam-lf3hn]

The best modern Nora Fries is the one that appears in Arkham Knight. After being released from cryostasis, she is doomed to die. But she still loves her husband and wants to spend her final days with him. Together, they leave Gotham and are never seen or heard from again.

[@arnowisp6244]

No better way to end Mr Fries story. Than to their last days with each other.

[@markchapman3457]

I’d say Batman & Mr freeze subzero was better

[@VallornDeathblade]

I'm a big fan of Batman Beyond's Mr Freeze episode Meltdown. "Leave me, you're the only one who cares." is such a perfectly sad line for him to end on.

[@BlueSatoshi]

​@@VallornDeathbladeHe says "Believe me" there, not "Leave me"

[@VallornDeathblade]

@@BlueSatoshi Ah I must have missheard, thanks.

[@thomastegroen1274]

> BTAS reinvigorates Mr. Freeze's story > Wide acclaim, wins awards > BTAS creates Harley Quinn > Initially beloved character, gets inserted everywhere > Harley adapted as feminist icon, obscures her original appeal > Mr. Freeze's story is mostly untouched & still remembered in its purest form > Harley Quinn gets her own show > Harley Quinn fights tooth & nail to destroy Mr. Freeze's story There's a lesson here, somewhere.

[@NewCanada]

The lesson? Don't do social justice. Not even once.

[@mikkelnpetersen]

The lesson is "everything woke turns to sh*t"

[@konobuzoggu239]

i will never understand why they chose the abused psycopath with daddy issues as their champion unless...

[@georgestauber2636]

@@konobuzoggu239 Projection

[@Theranthrope]

BtAS even did the infamous Harley Quinn creampie scene _tastefully._

[@metallord6960]

In another timeline, we have Nora Fries becoming a vigilante hellbent on killing those who killed her beloved husband until Batman reminds her that Victor wouldn't want her to live for revenge. She slowly learns to fight for justice and slowly starts to open herself up to love once more. WHY ARE WE STUCK IN THE WORST TIMELINE?!

[@Nimble.ninja910]

We have incompetent writers. I realized quickly that if i want these cool stories i’ll just have to write and draw them myself.

[@fistimusmaximus6576]

So mr freeze cured her disease, then she went and got some more.

[@cro-magnoncarol4017]

Mister Freeze: *Looking from heaven meme*

[@Infamous1892]

Modern day romance.

[@damashep]

To be fair, the modern Nora is the more realistic female character

[@Krysnha]

@@damashep Sad but true, i mean i read once when TFM was in them tube, he read a story of a guy that save a poor girl dont remember one of those island Dominican or what she was ilitereat and her mother wanted to sell her to marriage the man take her from the island make her a US citizen, teach her to read and write, give her a home, and education, now she become a twat and complain about men, dont clean and want to be independent, so much for loving the man that save you

[@dejannincic9671]

You can tell that the writers of this show are either single or in a loveless marriage

[@lightborn9071]

They never felt love to begin with.

[@knox7945]

Mr. Freeze had more emotions than these chumps.

[@bitharne]

@@knox7945 Mostly Chumpettes (Benders' 7th most said word).

[@MarkFin9423]

The vast majority of relationships are loveless these days thanks to feminisms. It's all either based on instant physical gratification, or the man is a "tuck" and is only kept around by the woman for the man's finances which she will use to raise someone else's kids.

[@red_five3325]

And they're the sole reasons why their respective marriages have no love.

[@brasstonberry3266]

“Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

[@georgeprchal3924]

Not comply true, evil did create 2 Death Stars.

[@keklord4128]

​@@georgeprchal3924 the death star is canonically basically a high powered supersized lightsaber that uses the same kyber crystals originally used in lightsabers which were a jedi invention

[@smugwendigo5123]

For the last time Tolkien didnt say that

[@carsoncasmirri3874]

The older I get the more I understand how true that is

[@dragonmaster1360]

@smugwendigo5123 Yes. Yes, he did. It's a paraphrase of quotes from two of his works, Return of the King and Silmarillion.

[@zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba0]

Nothing wholesome is allowed anymore. Victor and Nora were fan favorites because they were victims of circumstance. Combined with Victors cold attitude but burning passion. True juxtaposition. And the hopeless romantics, myself included loved it, cause it was artistically beautiful. Over the Years of trying to retcon Victor as some obsessed professor with a rape-cicle in the freezer. Or Nora wasn't even his wife. Is evidence they just want to destroy anything beautiful. Even fiction.

[@cptndunsel2670]

Men cannot be allowed to be seen as good or virtuous in any way.

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Hell, even the darker interpretation that Mr. Freeze has an unhealthy obsession with Norah, that he should just let her die and move on instead of everything he's done "for her", is a far better twist on their story since there's plenty of room for either case to be true in any version of the story because we never get to know Norah, her relationship with Victor, or anything else except through Mr. Freeze's own biased filter of his frozen/dead wife... After all, he is still a villain, it's okay for him to span that whole gambit from purely sympathetic husband resorting to crime to save his wife, to creepy pseudo stalker who can't let go of the past. Batman villains are frequently defined by mental illness after all...

[@dragonlord498]

All forms of beauty must go weather it's Physical which typically is mix just general physical healthy and showing viability as a mate. But nope have to make woman both real imagined look deformed such as looking like a guy or they can't have secondary sex traits like breasts or other signs of sexual maturity. But at least it's still perfectly fine to have good looking guys everywhere still.... Or mental such as family oriented love or genuine romantic interest between men and women that leads to it. Because anything other then lust or other things I probably can't say directly is wrong in their world view of being sociopaths why they relate more with unhinged villains like Harley then heroes usually.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

I seen nsfw with more wholesomeness than this shlock...When lewd art can have more wholesome stuff than this show, thats how sad it is.

[@dragonlord498]

@@darkzeroprojects4245 ya i've played and read such games/books/comics with genuinely good relationships much better then western entertainment has typically displayed in a while with the physical stuff being because they love one another not just love or often turns into love. unlike most of what they push from western sources which just want pure lust and keep it that way.

[@PhillyCh3zSt3ak]

The worst part is, this hedonistic character can hypothetically work with a writer and series that doesn't hate the characters. I literally came up with this in the shower as a shower thought: Freeze dies saving his wife. Nora, surrounded by a bunch of literal psychopaths that have borderline no empathy form a toxic relationship with her and she isn't able to properly grieve her husband's sacrifice. She falls into the destructive and hedonistic habits and lifestyle portrayed already in the show. Catwoman, being one of the only few people that can be considered as to have a moral compass in Batman's rogues gallery of villainesses, confronts her about her destructive behaviors and the toxic relationships with the other villainesses slowly destroying her and asks if this is how she wants to honor her husband's sacrifice. They have a touching scene showing how broken and vulnerable she is. Hell, it could even have flashbacks of Nora being in stasis but what Victor never knew is that she could hear everything. His desperate attempts and failings to search for a cure. Things he said that he thought she'd never hear or had ever heard him say. Things that showed how human he was underneath the mask of an ice cold killer. How he was going through his own grief and never properly worked through it. Catwoman convinces her to cut ties to Harley and Ivy and get professional help, she finds friends outside of villainy and a support structure, and comes to the conclusion as to how to honor her husband's sacrifice by doing something noble. And whatever that noble thing is left vague for people to further expand on in the future. There you go. It's a freebie, writers. Has a good message about seeking and accepting help. To grieve for losses in a healthy way and not use self-destructive means to cope. To keep company with non-toxic people. Release it during a mental health month for awareness if you want. June is Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. I came up with this in 30 minutes as a shower thought and I'm in no way a professional writer.

[@fojisan2398]

Already way better than the drivel these "people" at DC have made

[@autobotstarscream765]

And the best part is that it would have a moral for the protagonist, Harley, and thus matter to the series as a whole: what the writers have done with Harley and how she passes it along to everyone she meets would have reached the point of her becoming the very thing she fought to broke free of, as she now naturally corrupts everything and everyone pure...just like Mr. J did to her, and is now doing through her, the cycle of abuse renewing once more and becoming exposed to give Harley inspiration for bettering herself and her own example that she gives to those around her.

[@MaximumPayine]

Ok, now prove its moral.

[@АнаХодящийпонебу]

Hahah... Who cares about men mental health? *J, as a woman, I'm very sorry. I'm being sarcastic here because I find most men rather tough up and being unhealthy about their repressed emotions and mostly I am too. Happy Mental Healths! (This video is not good for my mental health 💀 I'm watching it like a drug, since recently there are no interesting show imo)

[@ALookIntoTheEulenspiegel]

Right, okay, but this is *comedy show,* first and foremost, characters pretty much need to be funny for most of their time on it.

[@marcelosilveira2276]

In the Harley Quin show every man is either sexist or cheated on. It is almost like they are telling you "if you don't want to get cheated on, be sexist"

[@autobotstarscream765]

When the feminist cartoon is incelpilled 😂

[@Infamous1892]

That's not totally inaccurate.

[@Eking-su3tr]

@@Infamous1892nah it is, left out the part of being gay asl too

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@Eking-su3tr How to not be pushed by women: don't do women. It really is MGTOW. 🤣

[@elijahherstal776]

The worst thing about these vandals- there is nothing they cherish and hold sacred, so the same cannot be done in return to them.

[@CrazyGamer996]

Yes you can, take away their recognition and existence(not physically). Make it so that they become what they once were, social outcasts that are forgotten and ignored by everyone. To be fair the only reason this hasn't been done successfully is because people with a lot of money need useful idiots and also want the destruction of everything .

[@theravenousrabbit3671]

Reminds me of islamists tearing down the statues of ancient Akkad and the first civilizations of the Euphrates. The destruction of priceless artifacts from the dawn age of mankind's rise to world dominion. I hate these creatures, so foul, so weak, so contemptuous that they will never create something so ornate and beautiful that they must destroy it to feel good.

[@lmanher]

By protecting all that is sacred, all that is holy and right. They loose their marbles, remember we are stronger than them. We have the moral high ground.

[@droughty666]

Kind right but not exactly, they cherish destroying our hobbies and turning it against us (great example, Snowbreak a weeb game that went in the fanservice rout so english VAs said they don't want to work on it anymore). So the thing we can do in turn is to gatekeep and try to take back what was co opted, because our happiness is sure to make them fume.

[@GreyKnight7777]

IDK man Harley Quinn is a pretty good show.

[@dretchlord873]

"Purity offends them on a deep personal level as they see something good, something virtuous and they know they are not it thus they have to destroy it" One of your greatest quotes for sure

[@Stormmblade]

It's like the female equivalent for the horror of catching a glimpse of yourself in the reflection of your computer monitor when the power goes out. Lol.

[@TheTaintedWisdom]

It certainly is a great representation of how disgusting they are when contextualized by his rhetoric and choice of words throughout the video I'll say that...

[@elijahmiller3989]

Where is that quote from it sounds good I am interested.

[@JohnDoe-og2bt]

​@@TheTaintedWisdomThey don't need any of that to be disgusting. Its the words *they* use which obscures the fact

[@ThisguySL]

If that's the case then do I even want to know what his stupider quotes sound like? Sheesh...

[@Kerruo]

I don't really care what they do with DC anymore, but destroying the tragic love story that is Nora and Victor....fucking disguisting.

[@AzraelThanatos]

Victor's end fate in the DCAU was also tragic there with only two people really caring there, and only one was really sympathetic with him.

[@mattknill]

there were so many things the writers could have done with Victor and Nora. but, they decided to do this crap. WHY?!

[@MaximumPayine]

What's disgusting is that the conservative men cut off their own genitals because they couldn't have any if they let this slop happen.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

Mr Freeze's appearance in Batman Beyond was even more tragic... you could tell, if any of Batman's villains could be redeemed, it was him. Sadly, the world only wanted to use him after his resurrection. You end up wanting so much for this guy to turn it around, for him to get a happy ending. Sadly, he dies alone, depressed and unloved. Terry Batman: "But you'll die!" Mr Freeze: "Trust me, you're the only one that cares", that last line really hits you right in the gut.... So you can imagine how much it infuriates me, to see what they did to him in modern times. Now they even bastardized his wife. I hope these people rot in hell.

[@ch-xr2bx]

You may feel some momentary discomfort.

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

Sadly, they will unless they repent and turn to Christ.

[@bitharne]

"There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men bad enough for such treachery." Came to mind when I saw the clip of Nora talking about getting an STD.

[@isaacdyer6556]

There's a condemning phrase in US-Southern that works. "Bless their little hearts".

[@madddogg8044]

Only the modern feminists would hate a character who is utterly devoted to his wife, loving her more than himself and sacrificing any and everything for her. The sickening mentality pushed on modern women that being loved is bad is weird, exalting them to indulge in self-destructive behavior instead. The reality is that Nora's lifestyle is dangerous and will likely end her life via overdose, STD, or just plain dead from the poor company she keeps getting her killed.

[@qazhr]

Remember this same people who looked Japanese McDonald ad of a wholesome family moment and claim there either it right wing propaganda or tried to read between the lines and find something wrong about the family

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

People keep saying Islam hates women, but if hate is stopping them from doing this, then what the fuck is the West doing?

[@Sensorium19]

My experience with feminist is two extremes that often live in the same person. One venerates dangerous promiscuity as "freedom." The other despises men as predators. The exact men they chose over and over again. Their worst hatred was however reserved for "nice guys" and loving men, because the existence of these men implies that some limit should perhaps be placed on their debauched exploits with literal criminals. Mr. Freeze's love for his wife implies that she might reciprocate that, which is unacceptable to them. The image of purity and romantic love that Nora Fries represented, locked away behind glass, must have been like a knife through their feminist hearts. Turning her into a cess pool was psychologically necessary.

[@aj.j5833]

@@Sensorium19 Not just woke women, many "conservative" women says stupid s... like you can't expect us not to w.ore around after we turn 18.

[@theonpointheavy4401]

Only badboys get them excited after all, they mock all men with loyalty and morality because they simutaneously crave the excitement of a badboys sclong and despise other women being happy with something they have decided is idealogically oppresive. Of course they are wrong and stupid as always, but when has that ever stopped jealous and spiteful mutants.

[@madzman7214]

It's ironic that a lot of kids' shows are surprisingly mature with plenty of wit, but adult shows are very immature and glad to make things vulgar for a cheap joke

[@CaptainPoseidon282]

I, as a 12 year old, hate all the adult things on the internet right now. my class really has a lot of people which do really perverted things. I don't even want to say it

[@madzman7214]

@CaptainPoseidon282 The internet in a nutshell

[@CaptainPoseidon282]

@@madzman7214 the worst part is its accsesible to kids my age

[@ragingrat7670]

You're forgetting shallow and pointless. Almost nothing is carried over from episode to episode let alone season to season. And if there is it's the most superficial stuff imaginable. Unlike a lot of older stuff mainly from the 80's to the earliest twenty teens'. Also a lot of the animation has also declined quit significantly.

[@madzman7214]

@ragingrat7670 each era has its own form of questionable stuff of yuck like the 90s and body HORROR or how the 70s almost killed the animation industry but the good stuff stilled survived we got the ducktales reboot and the news of 2 new seasons for Phineas and Ferb in the works

[@MultiCommissar]

the Harley Quinn show was made by people who watched The Venture Bros but didn't understand a single thing about it.

[@kirbyfan4]

So, people who watch drawn together

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

@MultiCommissar COMMISSAR FUKLAW! SEND IN THE ANGRY MARINES! WE NEED YOU!

[@goddessofchaos7754]

​@@kirbyfan4 dont disrespect Drawn Together like that

[@MeisterSchwabbo]

Even drawn together can deliver tragic scenes. ​@@kirbyfan4

[@mikeomnic3515]

Hey I thought venture bros was actually good unlike the Harley show

[@bakaforlove]

Original Nora was someone you’d fight for, die for, while the new one is a one night stand you quickly forget after a few more beers.

[@kemious9361]

The Orginal Nora wasn't even a character she was a plot piece

[@kennethsatria6607]

Yeah that was Victor's whole deal too, they were a married couple who would do anything for one another

[@kennethsatria6607]

@@kemious9361 Yes but making her an asshole who disregarded her husband's struggles is not helping anything

[@kemious9361]

​@@kennethsatria6607 I'll agree with you that Harley Quinn definetely did mutate alot of the staples around Gotham and made them far less sympathatic . However this potrayal of Nora does beg an intersting question. Did Freezes death effect her and is she compying admittedly not well to the love of her life dying as well as the world being very different from the time she's been in cry sleep? Or has this always been aspects of Nora that Freeze glazed over in his rememberance of her. Perhaps he's always ignored the toxic parts of her. Maybe because she's been in cyro sleep so long that maybe he's idolized her and forgotten her flaws. IF this were explored it might lead to a more interesting reflection on the character

[@kennethsatria6607]

@@kemious9361 It would be nice if they had that humanizing addition but what we have is people just making her a supervillain too or... This whole thing making her overly toxic and subverting expectations. There has been elseworld stories saying Nora was a party animal and Freeze was dominating and actually liked her better in a frozen coma. In 52 they werent even married Freeze was just obsessed with a random frozen patient he became delusional and thought of her as his wife. Its all just cynical tale after cynical take. TAS ended with Nora waking up and marrying someone else because its been years and Victor was assumed dead at that point. The latter happy to see her safe and alive and thats still the best we got because his whole character is based on self sacrifice and devotion. Why do people wanna twist and corrupt that into something toxic is beyond me.

[@MrGodsNomad]

From Frozen Atlas to Stone Cold Simp. Mister Freeze Deserves Better. Gone is Nora’s Virtue, Femininity, and Dignity. Rest In Peace Victor Freeze

[@isaacdyer6556]

And alongside him, his beloved Nora. This booze-guzzling party doll isn't Nora Freeze in the slightest. This is a pod-person.

[@EireHammer]

1990's Nora: Peak feminity. 2023 Nora: a napkin with a name.

[@CTC41392]

Or likely a phone number in the bathroom stall.

[@Shedovv]

@@CTC41392 I think a "napkin" in the OPs case is a more polite. YT friendly way to say the "term" 'cum-rag'.

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

The literal case of "they hate it 'cause they ain't it".

[@isaacdyer6556]

@@Self-replicating_whatnot TRUTH!

[@dragonhunter6157]

It's a comedy show it's not that deep bro

[@MrLolguy93]

That Harley Quinn show was not made out of love for fans. It was for cat ladies and wine aunts with Daddy issues and no eggs

[@АндрейНеугодников-м6е]

Why?

[@AnthonyDaFox]

My Aunt is a Cat lady and she hates this show, She thinks it character Assassination

[@GreyKnight7777]

Along with Batman Brave and the Bold it's one of the better things I've seen done with the license since Justice League Unlimited. It's irreverent but clever and clearly made by fans of the DCAU. It just might not be your thing.

[@streptococo4735]

@@GreyKnight7777 "clever" goddamn, when penis jokes and insults are clever, then society has definitely failed. the Harley Quinn shitshow fundamentally ruined Harley, why? because we are pretending she should STILL EXIST even after being separated from the Joker, that right there is character assasination, i dont care how they spin it, it doesnt matter, if anything is weird she stills has the nickname her abusive BF gave her, same clothes, SAME FUCKING GOALS. makes no fucking sense.

[@woldemunster9244]

@@АндрейНеугодников-м6е Because the "creators" are cat ladies with daddy issues and have no eggs.

[@rollingknight9800]

Nora Fries could've been like reverse Mr. Freeze. She could have been a vengeful, cold-hearted, fem-fatal assassin hell bent on killing Harley to avenge her husband's death. She could even but heads with the Justice League, making her a third party in an otherwise "good vs evil" world... Or she could be like this...

[@anvos658]

Honestly that would be a far better an believable story arch that fits with the over all theme of Mr. Freeze, about how love can lead to villainy.

[@duncanharrell5009]

God that would be awesome…

[@Benshavit493]

That sounds kinda terrible, instead of continuing with her life you'de have her just be Mr Freeze again, i guess rehashing a villian is something you can do but I prefer having a character who experienced grief to deal with it and then grow and thus becoming better then her husband who while always tried to save her still killed people because he was to sad to think of a better way

[@justblue3150]

Write a fanfic pls

[@rollingknight9800]

@@Benshavit493 I never said it was necessarily a "good idea", however, my point is smart writing and a little reverence could make their show's premise work. Problem is that the showrunners only pulled this stunt just to piss people off. Basically they're Reddit athiests

[@TheGloriousHawk]

Fries was my favorite villain because i idealized the love and loyalty that he and his wife had for each other. watching the vile desecration of such a beautiful relationship fills my heart with sadness. as such i am starting to understand the line "the only reward for tolerance is treachery." with every day that passes, where the things i love are constantly being corrupted, poisoned and destroyed, my capacity for tolerance wanes. "This is how I'll always remember you, surrounded by winter, forever young. Rest well, my love. The monster that took you from me will soon learn that revenge is a dish best served cold." Mr Freeze: Heart of Ice

[@caioaugusto1606]

Yes, and it's SO GOOD to read sane people like you, because the internet makes it seem like everyone has gone insane simultaneously. Seriously, NEVER try to discuss this on Reddit or Twitter, or you'll want to give up and live in a cave, because it will look like humanity as a whole has lost it's rationality.

[@graemevaughey7432]

For the life of me I cannot understand why _The Harley Quinn Show_ never received the same amount of vitriol and backlash as _Velma._ It is every bit as insulting and damaging to the original characters, but is WORSE, since it is spitting on _Batman: The Animated Series_ (A.K.A. the greatest animated TV show ever made -- outside of Anime).

[@kathrineici9811]

Probably because even fewer people have been paying attention to it

[@dimgen1606]

​@@kathrineici9811lmao it's one of the most successful hbo shows.

[@somedandy7694]

I doubt this is the only reason, but Harley being hot probably allowed a lot of fans to turn off their brains and consume product in a way they just couldn't with Velma...who was proud of being ugly.

[@kathrineici9811]

@@dimgen1606 I didn’t even know it was a thing until this video

[@derekpayneszubliminals7723]

Mainly because Season 1 was for a lack of better word, watchable but I honestly think this show was practically warning for shows like Velma. I mean both shows have female protagonist from an iconic franchise(nothing wrong as long it’s done right) but are just as annoying as each other, every other character regardless if they’re heroes or not are mostly unlikable or annoying, and even have a similar animation style and writing. I’m surprised that they haven’t announced a crossover at this point.

[@canaan_banana]

I gave up on modern entertainment a long time ago.

[@veameal9725]

This YT video is now your entertainment. Your humor became morose.

[@АндрейНеугодников-м6е]

I wish it didn't had to be this way

[@morsmagne]

@@veameal9725 When generative AI can create tailor-made entertainment, the Disney-like people won't have a creative career but they could create things as a hobby

[@robertbeisert3315]

​@morsmagne they'll create the garbage the AI regurtates into your entertainment. You will not be permitted to escape.

[@gusty9053]

And then Razorfist mentioned The Shadow (and other pulps), old westerns (Paladin) and Battletech.

[@Snootenhoff]

Nora, what in the ninth circle of heck did they do to you? 🥺

[@timbow1833]

seven and nine hells!

[@Krysnha]

Wait nine was not for murderers, iwould said that Nora would go to the of lust, never destine to find love, as for Victor, he would go to purgatory, yes he comit evil acts, butmore than once show he was not a monster, and was ready for sacrifice, if he redem himself in purgatory he could have a new chance in life or even maybe heaven

[@Snootenhoff]

@@Krysnha It was mostly due to it being frozen i mentioned it 😉 Very fair points though 🙂

[@Krysnha]

@@Snootenhoff yes, who know, should watch

[@Stormcrow_1]

They infected her with feminism.

[@RogueFox2185]

The Harley Quinn show is modern DC comics to a tee, it has spite seeped into it’s DNA but it pretends to be the class clown in order to lessen the potential frustration one normally would have to seeing such stupidity.

[@robertbeisert3315]

Spite, yes. Stupidity, no. The purpose is destruction. Making it good might not offend us enough.

[@davfree9732]

And so Stephen Universe beget the Harley Quinn show, which beget Velma, and Velma beget…. (Sounds of damnation splintering the barrier between worlds.)

[@GenesisBoi]

What sucks too is that in the season she was released it did show she was a regular person. Its only when they introduced her back for the Bachelorette party they just went "she is a tramp now"

[@davfree9732]

@@GenesisBoi I honestly thought and hoped, in the episode where Victor died that Nora was going to do her level best to kill Harley for what she did... That would have added some decent drama but instead we get Nora a lifeless husk one minute... Banging Maxi Zeus the next. I want to say they were tone deaf... But this isn't a bug in the production. It's a feature that repeats ad nauseum.

[@lawrencemorris2261]

I absolutely feel like your PP's face right now just after making a comment I tried hard to be funny but know it wasn't

[@Malefactor]

Almost as bad as how Marvel ruined the Punisher. They brought back his dead wife, who's murder was the impetus for Frank Castle's entire crusade, only to have her lambast him for everything he's done. She filed for divorce, sold off all his safe houses and armaments, and donated all the money to charities. Then to really seal the deal, Frank Castle was erased from existence. Like full on It's an Wonderful Life erasure.

[@Intelwinsbigly]

His wife shoulda stayed in the grond if she's that left wing.

[@autobotstarscream765]

And let me guess: he wished for/supported his own deletion, like when he told his own fans to stop liking him and go follow the All-New, All-Different Captain America.

[@SuperCanayaZ]

Damn. And I thought that "One More Day" arc, was a bad story that screwed up poor Peter. They are practically raping the Punisher.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@SuperCanayaZ Probably revenge against Garth Ennis for practically raping all the other heroes. The Western comicbook industry doesn't want to pay for talent, so they hire hacks for peanuts that write out of spite over their pissing contests instead of to entertain audiences or tell stories.

[@Awesomeisme7000]

Not only that, she planned to file for divorce before she would be killed.

[@willpower8061]

Considering this is coming from that Harley Queer show, none of this matters. No one considers this canon as opposed to Batman animated. Its just more self projection.

[@caioaugusto1606]

But if the show is a success, it's writers could be hired for more jobs and the disease would spread. But yes, the damage this makes is minimal... For now.

[@willpower8061]

@@caioaugusto1606 I would agree, however it's not a success and they'll fail upwards via the alphabet npcs.

[@caioaugusto1606]

@@willpower8061 Yeah, for this particular show, I agree. But that kind of attitude was the exact same as a lot of people 10 years ago, who denied things were being ruined out of spite. Just saying you can never be too careful.

[@ZeroNumerous]

@@willpower8061 Yes. And? They're still failing upward. They're gaining MORE power over MORE things. Success or not, it's blatantly clear by now that things we loved are being rotted from the inside. No amount of success or failure will stop them.

[@blankadams3120]

The multiverse excuse can also be used against them, though: "It's canon... somewhere... but that doesn't mean it's canon here"

[@lightborn9071]

Just because they write down or put it on screen doesn't mean it would be suddenly any more real than the delusions inside their own heads.

[@brianjohnson5620]

Problem is that the Crisis events merges all of the multi universe into one then kill off the version of heroes and family/villains they don't want to continue and leave the one with story they like to continue. I can see them killing Mr. Freeze for this reason in the next crisis event.

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@brianjohnson5620 we all know two can play that game and can easily destroy their universe.

[@Fact-fiend_1000ASMR.]

The multiverse should've been used to unleash creativity, instead its just a poor excuse to create a bunch of brainrot and drivel without any actual thought given.

[@ignis2638]

Man...I don't have words for this one chief...this is like watching your dad slave away for years at work doing a horrible job and give his life away only for your mom to forget about him start drinking and then bring home tons of guys, a real gut punch at best

[@markcarpenter6020]

That was probably the writers life and inspiration for their stories.

[@kingdon7795]

Well this is how all women are like.

[@kennethsatria6607]

@@kingdon7795 Depends on the woman, but its obvious this kind of toxicity in a fictional character really shows how meanspirted the people behind it are

[@neodeli8127]

​@@kingdon7795 ok calm down

[@Rheeve]

At least Mr. Freeze never got to see the degeneration, granted him getting blessed with the sweet release of oblivion.

[@kielbasamage]

He passed believing his wife still loved him, it's not the perfect end, but I wouldn't take it from him.

[@monky999monkey]

A mercy that if the monsters who write this slop would never have given him. A small kindness even if it was only borne from the fact they cannot plan ahead.

[@sauce2514]

I got bad news, DC has an afterlife. Dude's probably watching his wife's encounters on repeat.

[@PeterParker-ff7ub]

That shouldnt have happened to begin with.

[@lawrencemorris2261]

@@sauce2514 So this afterlife has secret GoPros that are able to withstand being transitioned to the spirit realm livestreaming and connecting to the screens of relevant souls in it to watch?

[@sujetodelta1019]

Nora back then: a Disney Princess a truly beautiful untouchable The Rose in the dome for Mr Freeze beast Nora in modern: girl that forgor who saved her and became a girls girl Wtf

[@azairecummings7049]

her husband died in front of her and everyone she normally would have turned to for support being her friends and family turned their backs cause of what freeze did the only people she had where Harley ( the one who got her husband killed) and Ivy (a supervillain) she's not a girls girl she a depressed spiral looking for distractions

[@ImmaLittlePip]

At first I thought that the harley Quinn show was ok not that bad just a goofy show But as it went on the character assassination of beloved characters got worst The way they handled batman you can tell it's written by those people on twitter who complain batman is rich and punches poor people

[@derekpayneszubliminals7723]

And those Twitter users misses the point that Batman punches people who actively terrorize Gotham regardless if they’re rich or poor.

[@taxman3749]

Honestly I see it as a condemnation of the modern woman.

[@caalsigo]

More like projection rather than condemnation

[@GodwynDi]

They're projecting, we're condemning.

[@Krysnha]

More like a projection, a hell, a dystopian disguise as paradise, as she is always doing banal things wiouth a future, wiouth a prospect, Mr Freeze can not feel warm, but he could close his eyes and maybe go back to a pass, and have some warm, these woman can only f every man in her way but no love

[@SPRX77]

Projecting would be the correct word here

[@MaximumPayine]

You haven't condemned anything. Just sat and whined and complained which is why this trash exists.

[@woodwyrm]

There is no curse in the thousand or so languages of our world for this betrayal and utter defilement!

[@e-moshe]

There actually is. It’s called ‘Don’t watch. Don’t give any money. Don’t consume (as they like to put it). Don’t acknowledge.”

[@cathulionetharn5139]

Ah yes, a widow grieving after her husband died in order to save her, From like what several decades ago society? I mean I guess you could argue she is acting out because she cannot cope with his death, but that is still a shittily weak excuse

[@GreyKnight7777]

Do you think 19th century gothic romance sounds like an appropriate vibe for the Harley and Ivy show?

[@blackaua]

She's 'acting out' because the female show writers are as resentful and spiteful towards healthy straight relationships as they are towards the fans of the IP's they exploit.

[@DonPetexX]

Blame the shows harley. Nora didn't want to go to that half ass Bachelorette party.

[@personalemail9329]

​@@DonPetexXor better yet, blame the writers and directors for such shit characterization.

[@ChiefCrewin]

​@@GreyKnight7777then why did they even add her? They didn't have to.

[@YourDM64]

Imagine dying for your wife only for her to forget about you and sleep with every guy that enters her peripheral.

[@einrauser6103]

"But it's Canon!" has never been so damning or worthy of scorn as it is today.

[@Rellikan]

Nora turning into a w&**e is a massive whiplash of a shift of personality. If you were in a loving monogamous male-female relationship. As a cope, would it not make sense to find another monogamous relationship for Nora to find the same love dynamic? The show is so disgusting. There is so much more evil propaganda about how to deal with relationships. Such as: 1. Poison Ivy completely ignoring the emotional vulnerability of Swamp Thing (Ivy ghosts him in his time of emotional need; his wife left him). He pours his heart out in anger and sadness at how Poison Ivy, supposedly his friend, chose to ignore his pleas for a shoulder to cry on (he got divorced). When confronted about this Poison Ivy talks about HERSELF and goes on CRYING ABOUT HERSELF infront of him. Addressing NOTHING of Swamp Thing's deep emotional vulnerability. Instead of taking ACCOUNTABILITY for FAILING HER FRIEND. She cries and cries about potentially losing Frank and how Swamp Thing NEEDS TO HELP HER. What is the lesson of this parody show? If you are a woman it is okay and fine to ignore your friend's (perhaps if they're male) needs and it is ok to not feel sorry for failing them.

[@ZealotOfSteal]

Another way to look at it is that all these people are villains. Thus the message is that villains, evil people, do these things. I am talking out of my behind, because I've not seen the show and I don't think I will either.

[@GreyKnight7777]

It's almost like Ivy being emotionally absent for those around her is viewed in the context of the show as a negative trait, part of her character arc, and a big piece of her development in that season, or something.

[@jamesneese7663]

Only when guys are emotionally unavailable or abusive is it wrong or bad. When women are aholes, it's empowerment. We see it now literally in real life like how a girl can go on a bender, shank guy 108 times, and she insisted she needs understanding and is The Victim. And court agreed.....

[@JoshBonz]

@@GreyKnight7777 That would require actual development though, and those characters reset that all the time. Lessons aren't learned, and everyone resets what feels like every arc.

[@etrangray-mane8610]

I'd believe that, if that wasn't the general behavior of women characters in *everything*.​@@GreyKnight7777

[@C0ldIron]

The greatest tragedy is the Victor, more than any other villain, has the potential to go hero. There is so much they could do to continue the tragedy but change the circumstance. But because how pure his love and devotion is Victor cannot be allowed to be happy and Nora cannot be the person that would be worthy of such love.

[@Sorain1]

I want an introduction for them that amounts to 'it was going as the original BATS story until-' with Lex Luthor seeing a chance to get a brilliant scientist on his strings, throwing money at the problem and thus putting Victor in a horrible place because a worse villain literally has his wife. (and may actually be working to cure her, just to curve ball the audience. Have him reveal 'the gratitude of a brilliant mind is a grand thing, their enmity is a potential problem I don't need.' at some point, why not?) Freezing Superman might not kill him, but dumping him into cryo stasis would be one way to neutralize him. You want a Victor that's a straight up hero? Use him as a secondary character in some team up story, having been helped by someone in the team and using his tech now to try and salvage his reputation for the day his wife is cured.

[@carsoncasmirri3874]

He only did what he did out of misguided desperation to save the person he loved most. It’s what makes him so good, how many can say they wouldn’t do the same when faced with such a poor hand as that? Anyone who has felt love can understand what he’s going through all too well.

[@justblue3150]

​@@Sorain1 so when can we expect those fanfics?

[@grindingtheaxe3027]

@@justblue3150 "I don't care if it's a day. Ten years...One hundred years...Thousands. I will cure you." Mr. Freeze swears as he gazes up at Nora's cryo chamber after another trial, another failure. He slams his fist down on his workbench in frustration. "No. I must keep going. She will open her eyes one day" Almost immediately, a glow catches his attention, not from any of his equipment or his suit. It was from outside his window. "Whatever it is, it isn't important. Nothing is, nothing except..." is what he is thinking when the glowing object spoke his name. "Victor Fries of Earth. You have a heart that contains great hope. All will be well."

[@puglove533]

I would read the hell out of this, make it a fanfic!

[@fvardona]

This is genuinely vile...one of the main takes of the story of Dr.Freeze is that he became what he is to save the one who is most dear to him, something which is very human and understandable since many people could understand the villain in a very deeper level since he was not trying to create chaos, hurt people for the fun of it or be rich stealing some bank. No his reasoning was certainly egotistical but one settled in grief and hope to finally save the person he loves the most, many of us if it were in his shoes would do the same, and that is what makes him one of the best villains of the Batman universe. However, since nothing is sacred anymore they spitted on all of that making Nora a literal tramp. All his sacrifice, all the suffering and grief was for someone who does not give a 2 rat ass for him. I thank God that this whole fiasco has backfired immensely since no one liked what they had done (at least the people I've have seen talking about it), also the fact that the original will always be there warms my heart to know that in the end, this is only a ret*rd*d take of what the true thing is.

[@Rellikan]

On multiple videos of clips of this Nora Freeze there are dozens and dozens of comments cheering for more seasons to come out. People can't wait to see more of this show.

[@Richforce1]

Particularly I like how Freeze's love fueled revenge is contrasted against Batman's unshakable pursuit of justice formed by the teachings of the also tragically departed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman saves Boyle from Freeze but not from the law, he could have easily stepped aside and let Freeze have his way or kill Freeze to save Boyle, but Batman knew to rekindle hope for justice in the city his parents loved he had to be a symbol, a figure for people to aspire to and that means giving each man his due according to the law. That's why Batman doesn't kill the Joker, that's why he works with commissar Gordon and that's why he ultimately makes a "family" with the Dick Greyson, Tim Drake and Barbra Gordon, while Freeze has a twisted love Batman has a purpose. Our sword, our shield and our battle cry must be "It's ooooooooooooooooooooooooold!"

[@isaacdyer6556]

@@Rellikan And they are idiots. Better the show cough out like the Loaded Fart it is.

[@SuperDachande]

"There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery ..."

[@nekorush5333]

In Batman Beyond Nora and Victor are cured but they end up divorced because she can't forgive him for the crimes he committed in his search for a cure.

[@fojisan2398]

That's a way more reasonable take on her disliking him and leaving him.

[@kathrineici9811]

See that makes sense. She would be hugely hurt by what he’s done and would try to live a normal, quiet life away from him. (Normal does not mean becoming a whore)

[@matthewfuhrmeister4817]

nora's long dead in beyond, and Victor isnt cured. Victor's conciousness was transferred to a clone body and he tried to honor nora's memory by founding a charity, only to discover that the procedure was a failure and his genetic mutation returned. He then relapsed into Mr. Freeze and eventually died saving Batman

[@emberparadox458]

I'll just leave this here: The Harley Quinn show and the Velma show were both made by the same company: HBO Max.

[@xientau9028]

And by the same kind of toxic people. I'm glad I haven't watched more than 2 episodes of either one, the reviews have gone into great detail on what I have supposedly missed, and it honestly seems like I was spared from wasting several hours of my life on trashy rage-bate.

[@duders307]

suddenly it all makes sense..

[@billbill6576]

The same gang of degenerates, they can’t create, only corrupt.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

They cancelled so many other projects people were actually excited to see, but they released both of those garbage shows. And will probably keep greenlighting them.

[@tvoovm7254]

​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp, and what makes this even worse is that the Velma show has a second season! A SECOND season no one asked for!!!!

[@Cowboycomando54]

I miss the art deco design and style from the Animated Series.

[@woldemunster9244]

I have a "special room" for my Arch deco.

[@robertbeisert3315]

Yeah, but that looked good and required technique to pull off. Much easier to reuse assets from every other animation with the magic of computers.

[@1SpicyMeataball]

Art Deco

[@merafirewing6591]

​@@robertbeisert3315 art deco is in a league of its own that modern art can't hold a candle to, even pre world war one art is something else entirely.

[@Lagbeard]

Mr. Freeze did have an a great backstory, and understandable reasons for being the way he is.

[@veameal9725]

Back when ambiguous villainy was a far less tired and living horse. Seems like a generation of creatively destitute individuals cannibalising their predecessors... badly.

[@Richforce1]

Particularly I like how Freeze's love fueled revenge is contrasted against Batman's unshakable pursuit of justice formed by the teachings of the also tragically departed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman saves Boyle from Freeze but not from the law, he could have easily stepped aside and let Freeze have his way or kill Freeze to save Boyle, but Batman knew to rekindle hope for justice in the city his parents loved he had to be a symbol, a figure for people to aspire to and that means giving each man his due according to the law. That's why Batman doesn't kill the Joker, that's why he works with commissar Gordon and that's why he ultimately makes a "family" with the Dick Greyson, Tim Drake and Barbra Gordon, while Freeze has a twisted love Batman has a purpose.

[@striderreborn1467]

Nora Lost me at season 4 in the HQ episode when she screamed "Down with the Patriarchy!" That's when I knew the show changed for the worse...

[@guardianforce3460]

Yea the je ne sais quoi is getting unpleasant. It feels regressive to entertaining and more why I stopped liking alot of modern renditions. Stuff that will not age well.

[@quigonkenny]

"Heart of Ice" Arguably the greatest single episode of American animation ever put to film. Smart writing, great score, the usual quality voice acting (including a technically pre-Joker appearance by Mark Hamill as Boyle), and an absolutely perfect performance by the late, great Michael Ansara as Freeze. Indeed a masterpiece.

[@Wbfuhn]

Mr. Freeze is that villain you can sympathize with. His good intentions were tainted by the actions of a greedy corporate leader. You can only feel pity and empathy for him. The new adaptation of his wife is a shameful disgrace. It's evil. It's the lowest of low. It's the bottom of the barrel. Abandon DC like the plague.

[@AzraelThanatos]

Yeah, the DCAU managed that even to his last appearance when he goes out as more of a hero, but still someone who only Terry actually believed in by that point.

[@MaximumPayine]

Yes, western society is the plague because the men have removed their balls and sat by watching this cr*p happen.

[@ContractualStrategy]

Crazy, how the story was played out so differently. One story is a piece of art, and the other is trashed fully.

[@necr0danc3r29]

Someone dared to compare this show to Venture Bros to me, and i'm surprised they weren't struck down by the hand of God on the spot.

[@tomraineofmagigor3499]

To be fair I don't like the austhetic of either

[@GusOfTheDorks]

I mean, they have things in common. They both......are made in color, both are intended to be viewed, both are........I was going to say written by humans but that might be a stretch for the harley writters.....OH! Neither require the ability to percieve ultra violet light to be viewed. See? A ton of stuff!

[@Tycho77]

Yeah, I had heard this show was highly rated, and even saw a few clips that were amusing. But then I discovered that they had turned Harley and Ivy into a gay couple and immediately thought "Oh this was made by activists, no thanks, I know were this ends" But boy, watching this video I realize you can never quite be prepared enough for the lows these people would gladly go to.

[@tomraineofmagigor3499]

@@Tycho77 characters just aren't allowed to be friends anymore

[@Tycho77]

@@tomraineofmagigor3499 Not only that, every kids cartoon these days is like "hey kids! did you know 90 percent of women are lesbians?"

[@senatorarmstrong1233]

It sucks that they assassinated her character because the scene where Mr freeze sacrifices himself to save her is actually very well written and does his character justice.

[@snowbunnie1113]

Poor Harley Quinn. She used to be such a good character with a tragically relatable story and all of it was thrown away to make her an obnoxious, girl boss feminist mouthpiece and idol for LGBT+ messaging. Nora Fries is just another example of a character who had to be sacrificed and replaced with something ugly for the liberal cause.

[@justblue3150]

I used to think Harley was such an interesting character, between being a psychiatrist falling victim to her patient's manipulation, to being a capable villain in her own right-even capturing Batman on her own-to her deadpool-esque sense of humor and her unique costumes, but now I can't find anything about her I like. I never thought they'd touch Nora though. I can see the appeal in reviving and curing her-she is such untapped potential-but to trash on her relationship with her husband, his devotion and their memory is just unbelievable. I always thought Freeze was such an awesome character with room for redemption, but tbh if this is what they turned his wife into, I'm glad he's resting in peace instead. At least he died thinking he cured his wife so she could live a good and happy life.

[@jreese7436]

DC wanted their own Deadpool.

[@SecretMagician]

@jreese7436 They entirely forgot that characters like Lobo and Ambush Bug exist,​ but i guess as long as they haven't or barely shown up in any media after 2010, they don't exist. Let's be real, she's being pushed because of Margot Robbie's Harley

[@mattdelong6582]

I... I have no words. Mr. Freeze is one of those characters you can't help but feel for, and now this? I... all i can say is that i am glad that at least I can always find something good to read, and then there's always anime to watch. These creators really are like children. Well, if you don't want to play with my toys the way I think they should be played with, then I'll just destroy everything in those toys you like and then you'll leave me alone. Well, i hope a lot of people continue to leave this shit alone.

[@Richforce1]

Particularly I like how Freeze's love fueled revenge is contrasted against Batman's unshakable pursuit of justice formed by the teachings of the also tragically departed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman saves Boyle from Freeze but not from the law, he could have easily stepped aside and let Freeze have his way or kill Freeze to save Boyle, but Batman knew to rekindle hope for justice in the city his parents loved he had to be a symbol, a figure for people to aspire to and that means giving each man his due according to the law. That's why Batman doesn't kill the Joker, that's why he works with commissar Gordon and that's why he ultimately makes a "family" with the Dick Greyson, Tim Drake and Barbra Gordon, while Freeze has a twisted love Batman has a purpose. Our sword, our shield and our battle cry must be "It's ooooooooooooooooooooooooold!"

[@Krysnha]

Indeed, i am watching highspeed etoile, one of the few modern anime is not isekai or shonen, and the main character looses but is not demigrated for loose, but seen these, i sseen modern woman, is just sad, Mr Freeze do everithing for her, and she doesnt even give a crap for him

[@leahp1765]

​@@Krysnhahe's a criminal

[@Krysnha]

@@leahp1765 Yes, i know, i know, but is sad, well how many of us can see oneself, love a girl or a woman, be family or someone we want as a partner, and like sadgasm said, you paid ofr her dream and only get nice words, in sometimes, you do everithing for her and she didnt even see you

[@vorpalkickass8825]

the way Nora is characterised is completely understandable, once you remember that the people that wrote her have no idea what humans think like and act like, but act closer to skittering bugs.

[@nickelakon5369]

They couldn't even let Mr Freeze be the one to cure Nora, the man who made the technology and the man who should have basically had the exclusive knowledge of any of it. It had to be poison ivy, a character who should have basically no knowledge of any of this.

[@grothdrakk-slayer725]

Imagine going through all of that for the woman you love only to find out she never loved you.

[@Aikurisu]

And modern women wonder why men aren't interested in them as much anymore...

[@alb3598]

What does this have to do with women in general? What are you interested in? Other guys?

[@NoobTamer]

@@alb3598 Are you a woman? "If you won't date wh*res, you must be gay!"

[@giin97]

​@@alb3598not women in general, "modern" women; you know, prostitutes.

[@Chinshellbuford]

​@@alb3598I don't think that's What the message ment Calm down

[@johnmang2659]

​@@alb3598Why? Are you homophobic

[@jester9217]

If you wanted to write a story where Nora goes villain having Harley free here, forcing Victor to give his life to save her would be a good start. Particularly if she gains her husband's condition and attempts to kill Harley and Ivy only for batman to have to save them

[@MusicFan752]

I could be wrong on this but I think there was a comic where Nora did wake up and she was a straight up villain, not thanks to anyone but was just straight up evil.

[@MorinehtarTheBlue]

​@@MusicFan752I do remember them curing her by means of the Lazarus Pits. Which made her permanently insane and only put her beyond Victor's reach in an entirely new way.

[@MnemonicHack]

Thinking about it, this is probably the world the writers live in. Shallow, vain, drugged, and desperate to chase the next good feeling. They liked all these earlier shows, so why shouldn't they make new shows with their own morals? Except their morals are trash. But if you tell them this, then you're called phobic. Transphobic, homophobic, racialphobic, ableistophobic, whatever; whatever they can use to justify ignoring you and continuing to live in their feel-good moment. Heck, they'll use YOU to feel good about themselves, as they can derive emotional joy out of telling you how bad of a person you are.

[@GodwynDi]

Yep. And they completely lack any shred of introspection, so if you force them to theybrevolt violently against you. Because deep down they do know, and do everything they can to avoid that knowledge surfacing.

[@mr.normalguy69]

80s - early 2000s were probably the golden age of entertainment.

[@merafirewing6591]

Yeah, and I much rather go back to that era.

[@carstennielsen7198]

may the modern showwriters be remembered as we remember Judas Iscariot.

[@Vertilgung]

Everything Woke turns to shit

[@woldemunster9244]

Always was, they just gave up on polishing the turds. :D

[@jadayaindigo7696]

only one problem there bud... the woke left absolutely *LOVES* shit.

[@rexeleon]

normalizing public degeneracy, reject self control.

[@aldahesu28]

May I suggest to replace the "turns into shit " to "is shit".

[@patgray5402]

Not everything. Arcane for example.

[@Blitzkrieg_Wolf]

Victor Friese had the most emotionally in-depth villain origin-story out of the whole series (with Baby Doll being a close second), his intentions were justified by the loss of the love of his life. His vengeance was driven by the actions of those who saw money over life... and these pathetic excuses for human beings took his wife and decided to desecrate everything that was pure & content with her character, her story and her husband's struggle. I thought Mr. Freeze had a cold heart, but these people are giving him a run for his money.

[@adrenjones9301]

Im surprised they didnt have a similar episode for Baby Doll.

[@jarradroberts9598]

Victor had his heart frozen against his will. The people who made the show never had warmth to begin with.

[@isaacdyer6556]

@@adrenjones9301 Please, don't give 'em ideas.

[@jjaarr3208]

Thank you for mentioning Baby Doll, I still think of her as the most tragic villain in the series.

[@jamesvanitas]

“EVEN TO A GUY LIKE ME, THATS COLD.”

[@bombvoyage5686]

It should be mentioned that de Sade is now considered a rampant serial killer. So take solace that he was evil and we don’t need to respect his ideas, in fact we should reject everything he did off hand.

[@Rellikan]

Why is he a serial killer now but he wasn't considered one before? Did new evidence show that he did something?

[@bombvoyage5686]

@@Rellikan yeah I think we found the bodies on his property, I know he was charged for them but they didn’t get him either because he was a noble in late French monarchy. Or because they didn’t have enough to connect him

[@cousinzeke4888]

We didn't really need anything more to conclude that.

[@eliphas_vlka]

Sadism comes from him tho...

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@@eliphas_vlkaAnd this show is definitely sadistic.

[@wert1234576]

I kinda like freeze dying to save a women that was never worth it. It makes him the forlorn hero, a man blinded by the beauty in his own eyes and not what was really there. He sacrificed himself not for Nora but his idea of Nora. It's kinda poetic.

[@isaacdyer6556]

How do you know she wasn't worth it? Mr. Freeze was married to the lady for a while before her illness hit her. If she was as scummy as these hacks made her, he'd not likely think so highly of her.

[@dhunter1133]

Modern feminism teaches that feminine power means ultimate narcissism: do whatever you want to do to please yourself no matter how undignified, self-debasing , or unhealthy it might be, because no one has the right to judge you. Curiously, this same modern feminism roundly condemns choosing to focus on home and children because that's in service to "the patriarchy" instead of one's selfish desires, in spite of their previous statement that "no one can judge you." Now, you would THINK that feminism would be about dignity, class, self-respect, self-improvement, et al. yet...those aspects never seem to be mentioned, do they? We should ask why.

[@JaimieSch]

Hmm, it appears Harley Quinn now has competition for the most desecrated BTAS character spot at this point. That's not something I thought was even possible at this point, given that Harley Quinn's modern iterations are the perfect summation of everything wrong with modern DC. How could any sane human look at a scene of Mr Freeze sacrificing his life for Nora, and think: "This should be in a comedy show, about Whorely Quinn and Lesbo Ivy's wacky adventures"? How do you think that something so tragic could be played for laughs? This sounds like it would be the start of Nora Freeze's descent into becoming a villain herself, hell bent on revenge against Harley and Ivy for causing her husband's death. That could have actually been an interesting story, but no, we had to just piss on everything in the name of modernity.

[@GodwynDi]

Because they care for nothing outside of themselves, and even less so when it's a man.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

The animated series was truly a gem of story telling. I mean not only did it improve a character like Mr. Freeze it whole sale invented characters that stuck with the series for decades afterwards like Harley Quin. Yes one the most iconic minions of the Joker was made in this cartoon and further adapted to the comics because it was so good.

[@princeeclipse12]

They should have turned Nora into the Ice Queen she then goes on a quest or a crusade against whichever realm holds his soul

[@Le-cp9tr]

There’s a quote from the Venture Bros creators about how deconstruction eventually becomes reconstruction. It’s a message the Harley Quinn writers never got

[@danutmh]

I believe this checks out perfectly for the "modern audience". How many times have we heard of women sabotaging each other, especially their relationships . Encouraging a divorce only to get married yourself , for instance.

[@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775]

Batman and Mr. Freeze: Subzero was originally intended as the ultimate ending by the writers for Victor and Nora Freeze. Seriously, the ending to Subzero can bring the audience to tears of happiness for the characters. We reached peak writing with Batman the Animated Series. Anything else past that is just an imitation or something else.

[@xsazar7073]

This shows how woke/lgbt/feminst/modern society etc. treat man just like bags of meat to be use and throw out after they no longer are useful, man can literaly sacrificed himself for them and still be the villain.

[@MaverickhunterXZero]

And they wonder why men choose the tree.

[@Stormcrow_1]

@@MaverickhunterXZero Maybe we can get the women the bears they want.

[@duncanharrell5009]

@Stormcrow_1 Remember it’s the Soft Guy Era. Grizzle grizzle women, you made your bed, now lay in it.

[@schnek8927]

It has nothing to do with modern society or the ideologies within it, and everything to do with their true nature. Every society on earth didn't keep them under strict control since the dawn of our species for nothing. Pretty on the outside, vile on the inside. Strict control is needed to account for that behaviour.

[@MaximumPayine]

They are just getting even for what you guys did; remember the 1800 and early 1900s where women were second class citizens and were always blamed for wrongs. Seems kind of ironic that you are complaining about them.

[@adamsee4144]

To be honest, "modern day" Nora probably would act like this. Even knowing her husband just sacrificed himself to save her life, she would likely let her (bad) friends influence her to the point of completely forgetting her dead husband and his sacrifice all together. Harley Quinn is a cartoon made by "modern" women after all, and they have no shame. "Modern" entertainment is devoid of any deeper meaning or purpose, other than to desecrate what came before it for a few short lived chuckles.

[@odinsrensen7460]

And old Nora was written by men. Maybe it's not modernity. Edit: Turns out I was somewhat wrong but still not all wrong. See my long comment below.

[@OctagonalSquare]

@@odinsrensen7460are you implying men value loyalty and love and women don’t and it’s always been that way?

[@streptococo4735]

@@OctagonalSquare Women version of love is mixed whit fleeting feelings. Men version of love is about a bond that stays thru struggle, for women to understand that they need struggle, and women usually never experience it. the ONLY THING women can potentially love unconditionally is their children (and i say potentially because broken women will only see their children as tools, men can also do it, but women have this angelic illusion that they are always perfect and mothers cant do no wrong, even tho single mothers are the ruin of our society)

[@CommanderRedEXE]

​@OctagonalSquare Men do, infact, value loyalty. There's a reason you basically don't see men on OF but you do see Women all too eager to show themselves off on it. Modern feminism cards only for women's sexual freedom, as in sleeping with whoever they want. Heck, even when they cheat they try to blame the guy as if it was his fault she was disloyal. Obvious there are some women not like this. But the current majority are definitely like modern Nora.

[@kielbasamage]

@@streptococo4735 I'm not even sure about the children. A lot of women tend to accidentally misplace them in washing machines and hot cars when it's inconvenient to have to deal with one.

[@Daredhnu]

Honestly in modern times that's probably how it would have turned out, considering the complete lack of morals in today's society.

[@jeice13]

Im not even surprised at this point. Of course they destroyed a wholesome relationship. Its like how seeing a show only has 1 straight white man tells you who the villain will be

[@lyvekis8824]

Even in later Batman iterations they dumbed Freeze down to a simple villain who just wants power, money or something like that. In TAS they portrait him as a victim of very bad circumstances. Heck, most villains had a human side to them like Two-Face or Scar-Face. It made you understand why they did the things they did. Harley Quinn show is a lefty fever dream of a Batman universe. They dragged everything the good old stuff stood for through the mud. And they defend this with saying "It is a parody". No, it is not. It is a mockery.

[@1SpicyMeataball]

Tidbits from the trash that is Harley Quinn animated: Catwoman belittleing(sp?) Bruce for giving her cats named after his parents "Your *anglo saxon* named cats" Joker unironically calling himself a socialist. The Constant digs at white male audience. Wholesome Kiteman treated like sh*t. I cpuld go on...

[@Sgt_Glory]

​@@1SpicyMeataball that all sounds utterly disgusting. Glad I haven't watched any DC animated anything in several years

[@clydemarshall8095]

The Harley series is entirely desecration. Harley and Ivy were historically just friends, not lesbian lovers. I don’t care is some comics did it first. It’s vile and disgusting.

[@John-fk2ky]

It’s also mentally unhealthy. Harley literally just got out of a bad relationship. She needs at least some time being around people who like her and can’t even be misconstrued as wanting something from her. Making her relationship with Ivy romantic is just asking for trouble, realistically speaking.

[@lightborn9071]

Not to mention that it doesn't even have anything to do with romance. Just compare it to any actual romance in any story from the early millenia. We have seen romance so many times, everywhere. But here? Nothing, none of the rules of romance writing are followed in any way, indeed, there are more scenes for a hateful relationship, lovebreakers, than anything.

[@drewjohnson-85]

@@John-fk2ky It also makes Ivy worse as a person, Ivy being Harley’s friend who is trying to help her recognize the fact that she’s actually in an abusive relationship with Joker and she needs to leave him for her own safety is a sign that Poison Ivy’s humanity is still in her somewhere, allowing us to sympathize with her and understand why Batman doesn’t just kill her already, because she’s not evil she’s just sick in the head, by making her a bisexual trying to steal Harley away from the Joker you end up with the question of is this about what’s best for Harley or does She simply want to possess Harley because someone else has her.

[@DelightfullyMADD]

Much like how these sickos can't even conceive that two men having a friendship is them being just simple friends and that it has to instead be them secretly gay for each other, these same weirdos can't even conceive that two women could legit just be friends without wanting to desperately play Rock Paper Scissors but without Paper and Rock with each other.

[@tba113]

​@@DelightfullyMADD Yeah. It may go back further than this, but I remember seeing this phenomenon back in the late 90's among fanfic writers. Back then, it was more common for the writers (primarily awkward, artsy high school girls) to fantasize about pairing up male characters who were buddies, teammates, or rivals in the original setting and making them gay couples, though the same crowd of writers also dove into Oops! All Lesbians territory when art sites like DeviantArt came along a few years later. Considering how so much of modern entertainment can be described as "bad fanfic wearing the skin of the original setting", I think it's pretty clear where the writers came from.

[@Darek_B52]

Just in case he doesn't mention it or didn't know. Batman the Animated series is tied to Superman the animated series Justice League Justice League Unlimited Batman Beyond a few animated films & kinda Static Shock. If I recall that one is more disconnected save for his few appearances in the future of Beyond.

[@lekhaclam87]

Static Shock is in the same universe. And that's about it.

[@markcarpenter6020]

Loved batman beyond.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Consider this, even the cinematic abomination known as Batman and Robin managed to get Freeze and his wife right more than this crap.

[@chiplundsmark5936]

At first I thought this was gonna be just another. "How things suck compared to the past. Get off my lawn video." Which is fine. There is always a little truth in some nostalgia-bait. But as I listened to this I realized it is a very well thought out and informative rant. Well worth the listen. Especially if you are a Batman fan.

[@kireta21]

I don't find it that surprising. 1. Writers erasing established characters to create self-inserts in their place is almost a staple of modern western animation. 2. What they consider "empowering" is to engage in degenerate behaviour and not get slapped down for it. Add these 2 factors, and outcome is predictible.

[@CaptainPoseidon282]

and that slips into media which is accesible to children, of all the things that could make one hate school, thats the thing that makes me hate it

[@pubcle]

After this video? I gave up on _anything_ coming out of LA at least 2 years ago. Catch up. There's a complete lack of sincerity, of genuine, of anything meaningful & heartfelt. Especially when it comes to romance. Everything must be shallow, cynical, deconstructionist, hollow. Everything needs to be ironic, disparaging, narcissistic, prideful. There's no humility, no genuine love, no sacrifice of the self in a sincere moment for someone. It's all so utterly emptied out of the heart. They do not even know what they ruin, they don't understand the idea of love, just immediate gratification. That is one of the things I have greatest strife with modern writing, & something I desire to long term put back into entertainment with my writing projects. Something meaningful.

[@woldemunster9244]

Noob. Last movie i went to see in theatre was the Bladerunner 2049. I've bothered to "download" Sonic movies. ....Yeah. :D

[@Rellikan]

Your words are exactly right. Except I disagree with one thing. They completely understand what it is they bring ruin to. You should believe this. They know exactly how they can twist and corrupt sacred aspects of beloved stories. If they could ruin everything as maliciously as they did Nora they would. The trouble is people would notice too much if it happened to everything all at once.

[@GodwynDi]

Describes the people writing it.

[@pubcle]

@@Rellikan Allow me to explain what I mean. They don't understand the impacts nor value of it, they know what they are destroying & perceive that malicious act as a good thing but they don't see the knock on effects nor do they know such things as sincerety. They think sincerety is worthy of scorn & mockery, that it doesn't really exist except as almost a vice to them. I mean know in the sense of experience, belief, & closeness here. They know OF it & that they are destroying it but do not _know_ it. They don't understand the importance or goodness of these concepts. They don't really understand why they are deconstructing or any other means of behavior or creation, at least not consciously, either. They have an inverted value where malice & cynicism & narcissism are virtues, sincerity & sacrifice & love are to be mocked. There is little beyond the immediate to such people. Everything except that immediate gratification is worthy of derision to them. Make no mistake they are still malicious & very greatly so but it's a willfully ignorant, incompetent, arrogant malice born of a soul without any sincerety in itself. A kind that doesn't at all perceive the harm done to the self in the process.

[@fojisan2398]

I believe in you, bud. If you can recognize the evils of modern media, I know you can do some good.

[@akumaking1]

Sadly Bruce Timm seems to have chugged the woke Kool-Aid.

[@АндрейНеугодников-м6е]

Who is he?

[@vee-bee-a]

​@@АндрейНеугодников-м6е You're joking, right?

[@thescottishkarter6151]

​@@АндрейНеугодников-м6е one half of the team who made these characters.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

@@thescottishkarter6151 The other half being Paul Dini, I presume?

[@thescottishkarter6151]

@@mrbigglezworth42 yup.

[@hcook1023]

Even in Dragon Ball z abridged, when it came to Android 16 sacrifice they took it as a serious thing even it improved it It's amazing that some weekend, part-time parody animators it's such a better grasp on storyteller

[@Supahpowahnerd890]

This is what the French historian Fustel de Coulanges called attacks on the "centrality of the hearth" and what Mircea Eliade called the destabilization of the "Axis Mundi" the Axis of the World. The center of civilization is the family. Families are part of their community, communities are part of their region, and regions are part of a nation. How many things in the modern world can be understood as persistent, ritualized, and shameless attempts to distort, trivialize, and dissolve the family/community/region/nation? How many things can be understood as this war against virtues, principles, duties, and long term joy? The goal is to make these multitudes of violations feel like the status quo, to make them so numerous and nonstop to be effectively invisible. The good news is that they have to work very hard to do this. Righteousness is ultimately stronger, purer, fuller, and eternal than evil.

[@duders307]

i loved mr.freeze. one of my favorite batman villians. the harley quinn show just.. craps on him, and pretty-much everything fans love about batman. you can tell it's made by entitled princesses, who think they're all victims. they literally mock batman fans at the start of one of the episodes.. yes, i watched the show, i was bored, am not a big batman fan, and thought 'might as well'. it's nothing but a bunch of lady-villians whining about how bad they have it, and crapping on the male characters, with the occasion 'bout of violence.

[@АндрейНеугодников-м6е]

You think they not aware they are abusers

[@clydemarshall8095]

So they made her a modern woman. Lovely.

[@mjbull5156]

De Sade was regarded as twisted by the French, and that takes some incredible amount of deviance.

[@ArtisticLayman]

Back then we had Marquis de Sade, today we have Lily Orchard.

[@somtochukwuobidegwu5426]

This is why comic fans Left DC. the Harley Quinn show is made for fanfic viewers. This is why i watch anime and read foreign comics.

[@dejannincic9671]

I wonder what the Freeze of the main universe would say if he met this Nora, i would image he would put Harley and co on ice

[@isaacdyer6556]

And every sane person in the room would be giving him a standing ovation.

[@merafirewing6591]

Quite literally on ice.

[@fellipebarbosa4210]

Wanna know the result of this? I will not consume anything DC related, my kids will not consume anything DC related, and I'll make damn sure that their kids will not consume anything DC related. This franchises survived on parents passing them down to their kids (specially now with comicbook shops disapearing from the face of the Earth). Hope that "broader audience" is there for you DC, because me and mine WILL NOT.

[@Rellikan]

You should still show them the good DC animations. Buy it second hand to minimise support for the current DC company. Even if someone's shat on a golden treasure it doesn't mean it is now all crap.

[@John-kc4cg]

Pirate the old shows for them. They still impart great lessons for kids and you get to teach them to sail the seas.

[@suddenlythatenderman5800]

poor old arch.. having given up... on... everything... modern media.. because its... all crap..

[@Richforce1]

Our sword, our shield and our battle cry must be "It's ooooooooooooooooooooooooold!"

[@neinne6693]

Isnt it the other way around? Modern Media has given up on us, the Audience wich watched the Cartoon for 30 Years. Of course their Problem is, there is so much good stuff from the past, that we can ignore them for a very long time.

[@Sojoboscribe]

Come to think of it. in Batman Beyond, they mention that Victor cured Nora there as well, but then she left him and married someone else (of course, in this iteration, there really isn't much of Mr. Freeze left, as this continues from BTAS, Mr. Freeze is just a head now). More and more, it looks like all of Mr. Freezes efforts were ultimately wasted. He may have loved her to the ends of the earth, but it doesn't seem like she really reciprocated that depth of feeling.

[@colestrawn4304]

Honestly the worst part about this is you could easily make this into a good plot. Just change the reason Nora's wrecking herself, maybe she could be trying to distract herself from the fact that she lost a good chunk of her life to that disease and the nanosecond she beats it she loses something equally important to her. This could surf as a warning to harley not to fall into the same trap with her relationship and finally step it up.

[@iulian943]

Now I feel sad again for 3 reasons: 1. We will never get good stories again. 2. All the good show are in the hands of wokists. 3. I got reminded of mr. Freeze story. Wokists will spit on everything good on this world.