'The Boys' Comic Was Kinda Terrible

Okay well not terrible. But it is compared to the show. 'The Boys' comic and show go in two wildly different directions. Two different experiences. If you read the comic you know what I'm talking about. But if you didn't, well, this video should give you an idea.
I liked the comic in my first reading. It's just on retrospect, and how good the show has gotten, that looking back on it leaves me with some opinions.
Twitter: / hubpointless
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:07 The Show And Comic
04:04 Edge For the Sake of Edge
08:45 Compound V and Power Dynamics
11:15 The Show Improves Homelander
12:59 The Ending

[@daffygoose4757]

“The original The Boys comic is that guy who stumbles on the stage on an open-mic night, says they’re a master of satire, then says the n-word” one of the truest things I’ve ever heard

[@Henbot]

It is much better than that, you're just too soft.

[@supermansdaddy7019]

@Henbot Found the guy who thinks saying the n-word is satire. Also, nice kitten avatar, softie.

[@hunterzolomom9480]

@@supermansdaddy7019 lol everything is racist , u guys gonna destroy an entire country just cus some N word hurts ppl that absolute hate white ppl 24/7 good luck with the helter skelter war hahahaha

[@lavenderchannel5740]

@@Henbot "you're just too soft" - 🤓

[@somethingclever4297]

@@Henbot oh sorry did that statement offend you. Did it hurt your feelings. Are going to cry about it.

[@dendostar5436]

“You will never hate superheroes more than Garth Ennis.” That’s a bitchin’ thesis statement.

[@comixproviderftw_02]

That’s pretty much accurate

[@JIMT412]

FACTS. Besides, his other works were ok

[@dendostar5436]

@@comixproviderftw_02 Word.

[@MisterUnknown707]

@@JIMT412 *were

[@JIMT412]

@@MisterUnknown707 thanks, stupid corrector

[@soyeye6612]

I will be forever in awe that a show that makes fun of the absolute soullessness of big corporations was published by Amazon of all people.

[@mahtim]

It just adds depth 🤌

[@paulsmart4672]

Capitalism turns even anticapitalist sentiment into a product. It's a whole thing.

[@kvassinc]

Everything is fine as long as they count money. So there is no reason for them to interfere with creative freedom.

[@nathanmeagher7869]

It’s called recuperation

[@BubblesTheBard]

i mean, one of the most evil people on the show just happens to look and act like Alexandria Ocasia-Cortez, even down to Homelander mentioning a "funny little dance video". AOC blocked Amazon from putting their second HQ in new york because it was gonna raise taxes on her constituents while Amazon would have made $140K PER WORKER from tax kickbacks. they definitely interefered in the writing. that shit was *targeted*

[@bendaydot6733]

Ennis’ hatred for Captain America never made much sense to me. I remember him saying that he believes Captain America disrespects all the men who fought and died during WWII, I would almost buy that if it weren’t for the fact that Captain America was created by two guys who served in WWII and the character was an important inspirational figure for other men who served in WWII as well.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

You know, it's really funny how Ennis thought that Captain America is disrespectful to the soldiers who fought in World War II when he was created before America entered the war, by two real-life military veterans (one of which was a draftsman for reconnaissance maps), and was actually quite popular with American servicemen... yet he's a huge WWII history buff who never actually had any military experience, to begin with. It also doesn't help that the whole thing about Captain America being insulting to actual World War II veterans also comes across as hypocritical, comsidering how some of Ennis's own comics (particularly Adventures of the Rifle Brigade) feel far more disrespectful to the actual servicemen.

[@crows_are_superior4464]

It’s because Cap is against war. He preaches tolerance and love for everyone involved in war, as both sides have victims. Ennis just wants a one dimensional pro military dickhead, so he hates cap

[@prawngravy18]

If you are looking for an sense in arguing with someone that clearly wasnt mentally 100% then you must be fucking insanely delusional.

[@laverdadescatolica5]

It’s propaganda. Americans did not want to be in WWII. It wasn’t until (((England))) asked them to join. Interesting to note that (((Captain America))) was propaganda … about what america SHOULD be doing … based on (((people who wrote it))).

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

See, if his criticism of Cap was more along the lines of his existence unintentionally glorifying American exceptionalism or whitewashing away the more unpleasant aspects of American history and government, he may have had a point there. And even then, there are several Captain America storylines dedicated to deconstructing those very concepts, and even ones where Steve forsakes the American government entirely in favor of siding with the oppressed, which would disprove that point. But instead he sticks to this weird stance about Cap somehow disrespecting actual WWII vets and I just…that doesn’t even _begin_ to make sense to me.

[@maximuffin6395]

“You hate superheroes? You could use this comic as a commentary on the genre instead of mindlessly killing superheroes” Garth: “I don’t wanna make a commentary, I wanna kill superheroes!”

[@patrickgamblin3734]

I understood that reference.

[@elfascisto6549]

I mean if killing superheroes was all that the comic was, it would be better than what we have

[@hippopilot6750]

Forced reference

[@maximuffin6395]

@@hippopilot6750 It's a YT comment, what do you expect?

[@jongyon7192p]

For 10 years at least!

[@SH2K9]

"...too much hate towards something can become just as annoying and intolerable as the thing it's making fun of," That really *is* a good moral.

[@anxietyplague]

That's one quote I promise you 99.99% people won't follow

[@WTFisTingispingis]

_Thank you._

[@Introvertsan]

Very true they are more annoying than what they claim is annoying

[@chrisa5180]

jellybean hate in a nutshell

[@SH2K9]

@@Introvertsan Obligatory "T H I S"

[@ikebirchum6591]

You know how kids in elementary school would always rewrite nursery rhymes to be about violently dismembering Barney or whatever? The Boys comic is like if someone never got over that hatred as they grew up, and then put a ton of effort into writing and conducting a full ensemble orchestra rendition of "I hate you, you hate me, let's get together and kill Barney." It's honestly more pathetic than anything else.

[@narusuke413]

Where I grew up, ppl used to say love instead of hate

[@smartsalamander8753]

Huh, it was always "we're a terrible family" where I came from, granted, the "Lets go kill Barney" does explain the next verse "With a bang, bang, bang, and Barneys on the floor. No more Purple Dinosaur"

[@Rorschach220]

Man that takes me back to 3rd grade when my friend and I would sometimes sing "Old McDonald got tourtured" for the hell of it

[@jasminelovespink]

So it's basically what happens when you let your hatred for a fictional character override common sense. Which is a bad idea in my opinion.

[@brandleythomas7551]

What kind of schools did yall go to?💀

[@metadoe8168]

I'm convinced Garth Ennis would've actually become a supervillain if superheroes existed, just because he hates them so much.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

He would definitely be the real-life counterpart of J. Jonah Jameson or Syndrome from The Incredibles if that's the case.

[@massgunner4152]

​@@Noelle_Holidayworse, he would be that one My hero academia villain that kills heroes because he only likes all might.

[@vinayaksharma9270]

​@@massgunner4152well you are selling my guy stain short atleast he was able to acknowledge deku and some other heroes while this guy can't.

[@CollinMcLean]

@@massgunner4152 I actually made that exact comment about Stain! That he reads like the creation of a Japanese Garth Ennis and no that isn't a compliment...

[@copter2000]

He would probably be Reverse Flash.

[@Mediados]

The Boys show really embraced the idea of "How would a random person act if they just got super powers." instead of "What if everyone was evil?"

[@Noelle_Holiday]

Hal Stewart/Tighten from Megamind is also a great example of what would realistically happen if an average nobody got superpowers. It's not that superpowers makes you evil, it's just that it cranks up the inner desires that had always been there since the beginning.

[@yellowandbrown1864]

yeah. what if someone was raised where no actions of theirs had any consequences while being constantly coddled mixed in with huge amounts of fame. They'd turn into an asshole, like a train and the deep. Now add some horrific child hood trauma into the mix and you get a psychopath, like homelander.

[@juniperrodley9843]

@@Noelle_Holiday FR. The powers didn't make Hal a bad person, they just allowed him to take the bad actions he always wanted to. Edit: rereading this now, I think it's important to kind of dispute the "cranked up" bit. Hal's desires didn't increase whatsoever after he got powers. He just suddenly had the means to pursue them through everyone else's objections.

[@meldrickedwards1892]

In reality, most people would just be using their to do trivial things in their lives. Ex: most people would just run everywhere if they had A-Train's speed. Lift heavy stuff if they had Homelander's powers, etc..

[@Mediados]

@@meldrickedwards1892 Sure, because everyone follows the rules and is an upstanding citizen all the time. Seriously, you can't believe that the average person wouldn't at least consider robbing a bank, grabbing an ATM or just take something really expensive from stores because they can. And that's not even accounting for the God complex that almost everyone would develop, which turns up narcissim to 100.

[@mothost6929]

The Boys TV show was made to be like a playful joke on superheroes, the MCU and even the media. Meanwhile The Boys Comic feels like a death threat to the very concept of superheroes itself.

[@lockerbuddy2039]

Hell, it even seems to poke at Amazon at times, it's enjoyable to see.

[@dimensionzone8048]

Dude if I could shake your hand I would. You said it better than I ever could with that phrase. Also it's a joke on DC as well. Dawn of the 7 was only the tip of the iceberg they mocked for DC movies

[@lol_no_man]

That's actually why I prefer the comic to be honest.

[@BuNnyDuDeDaRoO]

Recent MCU is playful jokes on auperheroes (falcon wintersoldier) and The Boys is actual satire about superheroes ASWELL as politics and media

[@dimensionzone8048]

@@BuNnyDuDeDaRoO The Falcon and the Winter Soilder was anything but a playful joke on superheroes though. If anything it was series take on social order and perception with superheroes as clearly examplfed with Isaiah's character. Amongst the other shows

[@lcyurchuk]

Garth Ennis wrote the superheroes in the comic the same way Chris Chan wrote security guards, police officers and people who inconvenienced him in one way or another.

[@dlz190]

You going to get liberals mad

[@lcyurchuk]

@dlz190 how?

[@billygoatguy3960]

​@@dlz190Two months and no one is mad

[@craigthebrute8932]

LOL I never thought about that similaritie. Well al least Chris Chan dosen't base his entire Sonichu comics by hatred.

[@lacriaturadekentucky]

​@@dlz190The only people who'd be mad at this comment would be Chris Chan and Garth Ennis, and I'm pretty sure they don't know of this comment's existence.

[@arkhamasylum8972]

One of the best things said in this video- "Too much hate towards something can make someone just as annoying and intolerable as the thing they're making fun of." This honestly applies to most people nowadays.

[@cappedminer369]

agreed

[@arnahunas4048]

For example, the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. It’s not very good, but god the “DISNEY RUINED MY CHILDHOOD” videos are more grading.

[@craigthebrute8932]

Anti-furries, Anti-Bronies, Anti-Feminist, Anti-LGBT, Anti-Woke......pretty much being Anti something on the Internet means that your hole personality is base on just hate. Which is way more pathetic then the people who he is making fun of

[@loudgamerindonesia4485]

Yeap. Same like some video game companies whom...did that too...hmm i wonder who.

[@henrycavillsrealmustache3553]

Facts like the people that just completely hate on new MCU films, like yea they arent to the peak of what they were a few years ago, but thats because of their own expectations people put on them. But maybe me growing up and remembering Fantastic four 2, elektra, and all the other terrible comic/ game adaptations lmao. Like they arent even probably 7/10 most these new ones but they arent 2/10s like some of the early 2000s and 90s shit was 😂

[@patron8597]

I think it's funny that the bad guys in a "dark and serious comic, for jaded adults like me" are more cartoonishly evil than the villains of an 80s cartoon.

[@error-try-again-later]

Seriously, if these characters had moustaches they'd be too busy twirling them to do crimes 💀

[@XSniper74184]

I mean at least Starscream was funny. Little backstabber always wanted to be the leader... What I'm saying is Starscream would have been a worse character if he also just ate babies.

[@projekttaku1]

80s cartoon villains can a fun personalities however and even a fun dynamic with their heroic counterparts. Compare that to the boys supe fodder who do crazy acts for no reason and then die.

[@jasminelovespink]

Like Dr. Wily. @@error-try-again-later

[@vanyadolly]

@@XSniper74184 And there was some genuine complexity in why the hell Megatron kept Starscream around. A mystery for the ages.

[@marlom7882]

"It's like Billy Butcher is Ennis's cool OC that exists to act out violent revenge fantasies against fictional people" Yea sounds about right

[@SomeYouTubeTraveler]

"It's not Punisher! It's my own original character, Blunisher!"

[@Jakepearl13]

He’s diet punisher,but with super-heroin in his veins

[@shizachan8421]

As a Girl reading the boys, Butcher always came off to me like the self-insert fantasy of incels who unironically use the term alpha male.

[@marlom7882]

@@shizachan8421 hehe damn. Accurate but still damn

[@marlom7882]

@@shizachan8421 wait a minute … what’s a girl?

[@ConorDriskell-jx4vu]

In my opinion, Garth Ennis seems like the type of guy who says he likes fantasy but only reads and watches Game of Thrones and absolutely nothing else in the genre

[@digitaldevil696]

OR says that he hates fantasy, but watches GoT because of supposed "gRiTtY ReAlIsM", while the show literally has dragons, magic and undead

[@CollinMcLean]

He's the kind of guy who reads The Watchmen and thinks Rorschach is the hero... Or he's a Snyderverse fanboy...

[@kungalexander829]

​@@CollinMcLeanor perhaps the other way around, Snyder loves Garth Ennis probably because they have a common hatred against superheroes

[@Noelle_Holiday]

@@digitaldevil696 If that's the case, then I wonder what Garth Ennis would think of Berserk.

[@lacriaturadekentucky]

​@@Noelle_HolidayI feel like Garth Ennis would love Berserk to the point of near insanity/comedy.

[@Goldenleyend]

"he accidentally killed a guy but its ok because he had a rat up his ass the whole time" 😂

[@jahrusalem3658]

That made me genuinely just stop for a second and go: "Wait. The _FUCK_ did he just say?"

[@alejandrootero8894]

ah... wait a second.....

[@CollinMcLean]

@@jahrusalem3658 "It's the X-Men. But Professor X actually diddles kids." and that long pause afterwards...

[@jahrusalem3658]

@@CollinMcLean Fucken killed me XD.

[@MrMisanthrope84]

"So this comic is a cool idea for a show right?" "Yeah, you think we should adapt it faithfully" "Fuck no." Best call ever.

[@Ineedgames]

Do we think the Same for Ghost in the Shell. None of the themes of what it is to be Human are not even in the Manga.

[@GMANN9000]

Wish they did tbh

[@_9br]

@@Ineedgames ok weeb

[@chroniclejim5073]

@@Ineedgames Eh?

[@yourdad5799]

@@_9br Dude you're the same stop taking

[@angelp6240]

Let's say it all together: Being a dark story doesn't make it automatically good.

[@chrisschirripa5917]

Like any story it’s how the story is told and the execution of it. Pun not intended

[@pranitp.1622]

Redo of healer is an example

[@djroscurro9859]

@@pranitp.1622 haven’t heard that name in 1000 years

[@edba1.037]

@@pranitp.1622 it's not the best, but to me redo of healer is still pretty good and enjoyable

[@duhotatoday3277]

I've watched the video about Speedball "mARvEl's mOsT trAgIc HErO" and it looked more like a torture роrn than dark for a reason.

[@cornesalvo9366]

What's up with the trend of people going "The comic industry is stale and dying, I'm going to write a comic that will shake it up and maybe even revolutionize it," and then writing a comic that becomes another example of why the comic industry is stale and dying

[@ellie8272]

This is really well put

[@billross9132]

"if I'm edgy that means I'm good"

[@ssorvete89]

what trend this comic was released a decade ago and aged like milk

[@Monkeylighthouse]

​@@ssorvete89because this happens all the time, it was happening a decade ago and it still happens now.

[@Oswin2642]

​@@ssorvete892006

[@jorgesaxon3781]

3:12 When I saw the show I agreed that the satire was ridiculously on the nose but then I found out there where people online who actually saw the show and actually thought "Homelander is a the good and cool guy" and idolizesed him and I started understanding why my english teacher desperately wanted to critically analyze media

[@jimmylee9120]

I think he's cool/ great charchter. I've literally never seen anyone say he's a good person tho....

[@Fushishou]

I've seen it :/

[@devofficialchannel]

They're also the same people who cheered any time Patrick Bateman from American Psycho kills someone.

[@bazookasniper5167]

Just making sure youre not talking about this but everyone in vought's youtube channel's comment section is just playing along and joking. The joke does spread outside of the channel sometimes though

[@SidneySaturday]

@@bazookasniper5167 nah man, Homelander is up there with Tyler Durden and Patrick Bateman. Guys see him as an Alpha Male type and think his bravado and hyper-aggression is actually something to work towards. Instead of, yknow, the satire Homelander and the others are meant to be. The problem with good satire is some people will see it as a good thing

[@liluziintrovert]

I really like how they turned it from an “ahh superhero’s bad” to an allegory of egotistical celebrities, using superheros

[@SoftTehCustomer]

@@notyourdaughter666 Is your pfp Rose Lalonde from Homestuck or Sabitsuki from dotflow?

[@SoftTehCustomer]

@@notyourdaughter666 I LOVE RPGMaker games (OMORI, LISA, OneShot, OFF, etc) so I felt like I saw your pfp at one point

[@kalpeshbhoir7372]

same thing then, god complex

[@auraguard0212]

Except everyone OJ Simpson, apparently...

[@Me-wx1mt]

It’s like actually making a point and not just “let’s show Superman- I MEAN… Homelander getting he shit kicked out of him”

[@deathsstrokes]

The Boys comic is a prime example of why Garth Ennis writes best when he has someone higher up the chain in publishing to come back and say "dude, what the fuck?"

[@shawndashno6022]

Oversight is necessity.

[@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access]

“I just-“ “No. What. The fuck” “I just think it would be cool if-“ “Dude. No. Not only is it tasteless, it is cringe. Try again.” *Sad Greg noises* Edit: 420th like achieved. If you have it, you must smoke it. So says the internet werewolf.

[@CBRN-115]

​@@Werewolf.with.Internet.Access "revise this crap"

[@3Crisstopher3]

crap.. crap.. megacrap..

[@MrSkerpentine]

*something something late Frank Miller here*

[@bbuerk9193]

Haven’t read the comic, but this honestly makes it sound like Garth Ennis ended up making a traditional superhero comic on accident. One good group of people with super powers fighting another bad group of people with super powers. The Boys just end up being the superheroes and the “superheroes” are just super villains who happen to wear capes and call themselves heroes. In the end, it seems like the only thing Ennis actually dislikes about traditional superheroes is that they wear costumes and they’re not edgy enough.

[@maximo_ramirez]

Holy shit, you just made me realize he's basically Stain from My Hero Academia. He likes Superman for being the actual big hero, Batman because he's edgy, and Wonder Woman...? too! And he actually hates heroes too, either for not measuring up to Superman, or not being edgy enough like Batman or ...? like Wonder Woman!

[@CollinMcLean]

@@maximo_ramirez Skimpy costume and bondage fetish?

[@HenryGray-sy4pu]

100%. There's no real difference between The Boys and a superhero comic where the villains are popular and the heroes move underground. Something like Dark Reign, except much, much, much more poorly written.

[@Inventorcoyote]

So he is basically a somewhat less bigoted post 911 Mark Miller

[@SpukiTheLoveKitten75]

The funny thing is that, regular comics already answer the question of what would happen if people have super-powers... The good ones become superheroes while the bad ones become supervillains. While "Power corrupts" is a good rule of thumb, I feel that it should be "Power corrupts, if you let it" along with SPIDERMAN'S "Great power comes with great responsibility"... after all, why can't good people strive for power or have it and use it to better the world. It's hard to better the world if one has no power. Power isn't evil in itself, it's how one handles it. I think if someone is easily corrupted by power, they had the awfulness and big ego in them all along.

[@jbktpl1245]

Its like money it just enhances what you are. If your a fool when your broke, you'll be a fool with money... Unless you change of course

[@SpukiTheLoveKitten75]

@@jbktpl1245 Yup. The seed of one's downfall is always there so it's very important to do one's best to not water it.

[@jordanstark5924]

Just like the philosophers stone. If you want it, you shouldn't have it

[@CollinMcLean]

The irony being Garth supposedly likes Superman who's a very reflection of this ideal. Superman is just someone who wants to do good for no other reason than the sake of doing good.

[@oliveragag8576]

You know since most heroes tend to have a very large rogues gallery, that would mean that most people in that universe chose to do bad things when given super powers.

[@DrNotnert]

The Boys comic was literally just the writers sitting around a table asking "What abhorrent material can we come up with to make the readers hate being a human?"

[@chaosindustry2279]

As well as “And how much can we get away with?”

[@bryanmanuel4945]

@@chaosindustry2279 "Just go crazy. It's not like they'll ever make this into a show. Now let's get Black Noir doing even more messed up things"

[@miguelantonioreinacardona7109]

Oh please it’s Garth Ennis the we are talking about he doesn’t need help for that, the guy just sits in his table and wonder “ how much edgy can I be and also show how much I hate superheroes and love the military.

[@crimsondynamo615]

And then you pick up Crossed

[@harrylane4]

That's just what Ennis is like when he doesn't have an editor to look him in the idea and tell him his ideas are dumb. He works well with an editor.

[@hyuugajay]

Garth Ennis hated superheroes. His story was shitting on superheros. The show was written by people who love superheroes. They made the superheroes believable and not just "Im bad because I can be"

[@mayonnaise3959]

@@no1name2274 just because he likes 3 super hero’s doesn’t mean he loves them all

[@nicknamed1267]

@@no1name2274 he ONLY likes those guys tbf. He despises pretty much everyone else IIRC

[@arnahunas4048]

@@nicknamed1267 He also likes Nick Fury & Punisher & “has a soft spot for Spider-Man” apparently.

[@nicknamed1267]

@@arnahunas4048nice. thanks for the info!

[@arnahunas4048]

That’s the reason I like The Boys show, The Incredibles, Lego Batman Movie, Spider-Verse & Invincible. They’re more than willing to poke fun at superhero tropes & cliches without ever being cynical. They’re also not only good superheroes stories, they’re good stories in general that I’d recommend to pretty much anyone.

[@oneghost1257]

I'd always wondered what it would look like if one of the Columbine shooters wrote fanfiction after reading Watchmen instead of murdering teenagers.

[@sapphicwriter]

Lmao 💀

[@parzavaal5335]

Damn 💀

[@massgunner4152]

Jesus christ

[@Dreigonix]

I was _just thinking,_ yeah, the amount of school-shooter imagery and themes in this comic, complete with it ending with the trenchcoat-clad murderers committing suicide, is just… _very_ on the nose.

[@joshuafreeman3609]

Important to remember that Garth Ennis has built his entire writing career on trying to recapture a moment from Judge Dredd that he read when he was 14 and never analyzed beyond “wow it’s so cool they would have him do something that fucked up”

[@kylenewberry9792]

Okay? And?

[@supahalexx4086]

​@@kylenewberry9792 the comic Is still trash, go cry about it

[@forresthenry9535]

From what I can gather, Garth Ennis’s philosophy is: “How dare people be inspired by ideas of selflessness and honor! Because EVERYONE is an asshole, like me!”

[@sgdrdfshf3017]

So u never read the comic then???

[@Shiirow]

'There are no heroes, just assholes and even bigger assholes."

[@gamergames334]

@@sgdrdfshf3017 Bro the comic is straigth trash. I read it and its horrible. Its really just an edgy shitshow with no real depth.

[@KrodaStagg]

@@gamergames334 It's like that meme of the guy saying "I hate thing" then an angel descends down from the havens to deliver a piece of paper that simply says..."ok"

[@bovineavenger734]

@@gamergames334 You need some degree of maturity to read past the edge and get to the actual story, the edginess is there to scare away overly sensitive numales. It's still crass af though I'll grant you that, I mean, Love Sausage....

[@Robbstark2024]

The boys comic seems like what parents say to kids about not using the word “hate”. It shows the ugly underbelly of what hatred can produce, especially if it is the dominant factor in motivation.

[@concept5631]

Huh. Never thought of it that way.

[@Platypus4321]

Ironic that Billy The Butcher takes his hatred of superheroes too far, but so does his creator, Garth Ennis.

[@firstlast9846]

I’d imagine The Boys (Comic) is the same but I remember reading more adult comics ages ago.. like Crossed and The Walking Dead - and some of the things that take place seemed to be more in service of shock value than it was in service of story.. and it just made me think why think up these sick things - just for it to not really go anywhere

[@rgw7345]

It's also the reason parody must always come from a place of love, not hate. Invincible is also a deconstruction of super hero comics, but unlike The Boys, it then tries to reconstruct it.

[@lsixty30]

so interesting, i was just saying "i hate blank" a lot in dms to a friend and i was reminded of this. hate really is a strong, and ugly, word. should be reserved for when it is appropriate or effective, not splattered around like a baby seal on the surface of the ocean by a playful orca.

[@jeolban3287]

I've said this for so long. The comic was just edgy for the sake of being edgy. The show actually makes you care about the characters, understand their motivations, and even feel sympathy for the biggest pieces of shit.

[@ughghger]

Real, the only good idea they had in the comic was making homelander a genuine good guy who tried to be a hero (minus the rape scene with starlight) only to be driven mad by falsified evidence of him being evil

[@jakkal100]

The show makes the boys unlikable though. Butcher is try hard edgy, hue is a bore, and the other three have boring arcs. The comics actually make butcher scary and it makes hue a character with depth

[@jeolban3287]

@@jakkal100 The comics make the characters a bore. They actually had a moral dilemma when they took V in the show, and they have motivations outside of "Heroes bad. Me kill."

[@jakkal100]

@@jeolban3287 It was a forced moral dilemma, if you read the comics Hue is always against using it anyways and is horrified when he does kill someone with it. Not to mention the comics have an actual message they want to say, the tv show is very shallow

[@namelesscoward263]

@@jakkal100 Dude... As a Hatred fan, I like to think I can recognize shitty writing purely for the sake of edge a mile away. And the comics? They suck SO bad, they have the depth of a puddle. No way you unironically think they're better than the show

[@ReverendLeRoux]

All of Ennis' work is like this. All of Preacher can be summarized with "I hate organized religion, Christianity the most of all of them, and would kill every evangelical person alive if ever presented the opportunity" but that goes on for SIXTY SIX FUCKING ISSUES.

[@qwertyzxcvbn3174]

Okay but that's based

[@ReverendLeRoux]

@@qwertyzxcvbn3174 it doesn't matter if you agree with him or not. Imagine reading like 600 pages of something that's just "I hate pound cake" over and over again. At some point, it gets boring. That's Ennis' work. All of it.

[@thecaptain6520]

​@@ReverendLeRouxsounds based to me

[@Noelle_Holiday]

​@@ReverendLeRoux What about Crossed? Isn't that comic just Garth Ennis shitting on the entire zombie apocalypse genre by replacing the iconic shambling undead with a "zombie" virus that turns people into depraved, sadistic psychopaths without robbing them of their intelligence and doesn't behave anything like zombies in the slightest to show how bad humanity would be screwed?

[@Granad784]

If he did like 3 issues or something like that (and knew how actual bad people act) it would be good

[@nolaz010]

“It feels like a hit piece on people who don’t actually exist” I’ve never heard the boys comic described in a more perfect way Edit: thanks for the Reddit gold kind stranger 🤓

[@MatanVil]

This is just the genre on supes deconstruction in the nutshell, even Watchmen

[@Horatio787]

@@MatanVil I'd argue Watchmen is a dispassionate analysis of what socially accepted vigilantes and one guy with powers would be like in the real world, and every other deconstruction (other than The Boys show) has missed the fundamental point of super heroes. They're heroic people in abstract stories. They're John Henry, they're the myths of old west gunslingers, they're King Arthur. They are stories about exceptional people in crazy situations that are not meant to be taken 100% literal. Watchmen takes them 100% literal and thinks about it, every other deconstruction (other than The Boys show) ignores why the fuck people would even bother dressing up in themed Halloween costumes at all instead of just joining the military or police force.

[@shawklan27]

@@Horatio787 well said

[@daryno9048]

@@Horatio787 I think another point that Alan Moore was making was “what kind of person would be drawn to the life of a superhero too”. You have fascists like the comedian who use his Authority and abuse it, Rorschach who have a mentally disturbed man who have a black and white view of the world, you have narcissist like Adrian who believe it was up to him to decide the fate of the world, and the one character with actual super power was just detach from humanity and the world.

[@mr.goblin6039]

@@MatanVil Watchmen never feels like it’s made to mock or hate on superheroes like The Boys is. Moore had something to say with Watchmen. The Boys isn’t deconstructing anything; it’s just Garth Ennis wanking himself and the US military, saying superheroes are all lame and cringe.

[@nunyabidness5375]

So Ennis mocks one-dimensional characters by creating one dimensional characters

[@jahrusalem3658]

"You were the Chosen One! You were meant to _destroy_ the Sith, not join them!"

[@swampert564]

If anything, a lot of the time he is mocking multidimensional characters by creating one-dimensional versions of them. His satire for lack of a better word lacks teeth because he willfully ignores anything and everything that makes the character special just so that he can say "gotcha" to himself. It's especially odd to me since he likes Punisher so much (to his credit, he does write the character well usually) even though Punisher is at best just as likely and at worst far more easy to flatten into a one-dimensional character as any other super hero.

[@cornesalvo9366]

@@swampert564 Very good analogy.

[@Misora7303]

I would say that that could be a good satire if it weren't done so poorly, heroes can be one dimensional or tridimensional depending on who writes them so it would be could to have a mix of bot, like ok the show

[@TheLegendaryMemeKing]

Yes.

[@cheezeofages]

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world Garth Ennis can write.

[@Lo-Fi-Fishing]

He’s like Chris-Chan, but without the Autism.

[@kylenewberry9792]

Both of you morons should actually educate yourself on his work. Anyone making as bizarre and ludicrous of a comparison as to CHRISCHAN of all people, is probably a lot more SIMILAR to chrischan themselves than anyone they are insulting. His Hellblazer run speaks for itself.

[@saidi7975]

Well the devil succeded when Ennis has an editor leash on him. Hitman and The Demon Etrigan were awesome.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

He can write, just not this sort of story.

[@aceplay100]

Yeah, Preacher is a coin flip when it comes to its writing. The stories he wrote for the Punisher comics are where his writing is restricted and are actually decent reads.

[@error-try-again-later]

My favourite thing is that the _good_ superheroes' flaws which are supposed to make you hate them aren't even hateable at all. Like...they try their best and they're ugly. I know the author is doing his best to depower them but the fact they're still going despite being treated like shit is pretty admirable 💀

[@SpukiTheLoveKitten75]

Frankly, it would have been a better story if that one misfit superhero team turned out to be the real heroes and the true superheroes in the end. A genuine superhero team that outdoes The Boys and the Corporation in actual heroics while genuinely inspiring people. Another idea would have been a slew of "Supervillains" who are really heroes. Imagine a bunch of anti-hero analogues of The Joker, Lex Luthor, Thanos, Doctor Doom, Doctor Octopus, Granny Goodness, The Riddler, General Zod, Bane, Ras A Ghul, The Red Skull, etc. I hate stuff that's non-stop cynicism and misanthropy. Dark stuff works best when paired with the light. The problem isn't things being dark and spooky with gore or whatever... the problem is misanthropy and hopelessness. This is why the comic version of "THE WALKING DEAD" is better than the show... as grimdark as it could be, it at least had an actual ending, and it was a happy one. Carl Grimes survives the comic's run, becomes the main hero and the walkers are eventually killed off or die out. Humanity works to rebuild society (and the whole series was a story an older Carl tells his daughter). The TV version kills Carl and the story just keeps on going in a never-ending slog with no real endgame. Ennis' worldview in the comics and real life is also something of a Cosmic Horror. Humanity is garbage but, in the comic, the Supreme Being is garbage, too. There's no true goodness in people, or refuge or even an afterlife. This is also why I'm not fond of George Carlin's late period. A lot of people love it but I frankly find it a bunch of angry hopelessness. Basically you have a hyper-cynical, anti-theist misanthrope making comics. I can understand why someone might be critical of the superhero genre... it's been done to death and the concept is silly to a lot of people (person in colorful outfit with weird super-powers or gadgets who fight crime, aliens, paranormal threats, etc. or who are said threats)... but for it to fester into extreme hate is silly. Ennis also labors under the delusion that Superheroes = Far-Right Fascist Garbage.

[@oksomynameisjeff4212]

​@@SpukiTheLoveKitten75 damn nice concepts

[@VladRadu-tq1pg]

great comment@@SpukiTheLoveKitten75

[@jesusramirezromo2037]

If i remember right, He wrote most of the good superheros to be reminiscent of pepole with learning disabilities...

[@justasillylilguy.]

​@@jesusramirezromo2037 Jesus Christ what the fuck.

[@helix4048]

This entire comic can be summed up in one sentence: “Yep, I have dark humor: 'racism'”

[@valhatan3907]

😂

[@LightRoomRJU]

"Yep, I do dark humor: rape"

[@steelbear2063]

@@LightRoomRJU I mean yeah, that's still humor, but extremely dark. It's just that the topic is kinda taboo, but it's not so different from laughing at murder. Like we do with horror movies. In Jason X for example a guy gets thrown onto a giant drill, and his comrade says "he's screwed". Funny, right? I also "like" how James from Kill Count is all like "hell yeah, carve out the eyeball and eat it, awesome!", but when if there's even a possibility of rape in the movie, he's like "too far, there's no reason to include this, sick bastards" - yeah buddy, okay. Basically it's one of those cases where you don't laugh at the joke, the joke laughs at you.

[@s.g.7572]

@@steelbear2063 It's because there's a reasonably high likelihood that someone watching a film has experienced sexual assault, but it's slightly less likely that they've been murdered.

[@-8h-]

It doesn't sound any different from the show when you say it like that.

[@JillLulamoon]

I think its amusing how much more interesting I find Billy Butcher character design in the show when he wears goofy Hawaiian shirts under the black coat compared to the comic where Billy wears black shirt, black pants, all black to show how cool and tough he is man he's so cool and tough and is too adult and cool for bright colors cause those are for freaking babies.

[@zerodollarbird]

Same for his softer edges that were completely absent in the comic. His love for the Spice Girls, "good cunt" at the church fair, his genuine care for Hughie. He's unequivocally out for revenge but he hasn't lost touch with what made him want it to begin with: his humanity.

[@MattEldritchHorror]

Also, Karl Urban makes Butcher a thousand times more aesthetically attractive than how Butcher looked in the comic.

[@somethingclever4297]

@@MattEldritchHorror Billy butcher in the show has an actually memorable design. Meanwhile in the comic he looks like the punisher's loser cousin.

[@graeeyy6080]

​@@somethingclever4297 i laughed for a good minute after reading this

[@hunterngavinmom]

the beard really does it

[@MihailSamunin]

9:59 Isn't it funny how the protagonists of an anti-superhero manifesto are dressed-up people with supernatural abilities. Which is like the definition of a superhero.

[@Komodofq8]

I think the main concept of the superheroes in the comics is that "the existential boredom of having godlike physical powers would turn them into hedonist psychopaths". but it doesn't really explore or back up this concept in a meaningful way, just uses it a highway for the superhero massacre

[@ivantumanov1015]

"he's superman, but he, uh, eats babies" "like it's written by an edgy teen" yep, that's Garth Ennis the writer.

[@ratatouilledrinksclorax9897]

Other than his run on Hellblazer....hes....yeah , a 14 this is deep

[@crimsonmask3819]

Nah, that's Alan Moore. Ennis was just playing one-up.

[@genericonion6255]

He actually did a pretty great run for the punisher

[@Runningitthroughyou]

No he went to a Christian convention lifted contest winners into the sky and dropped them. Y’all should really read the book y’all gotta take this yt’ers dick out y’all mouths he wont notice you

[@himurabattousai8408]

I'm convinced he wrote The Boys at least half for kicks. He does love his edge but he's also a competent writer when he tries. And he can also make his edge emotionally effective instead of gore/sex for shock value when he tries, but he wasn't going for that so much here. I was a bit surprised when I heard so many people calling it bad because "edge doesn't make it deep" when I think that wasn't the point at all; he was clearly laughing his head off as he wrote about hamsters in people's buttholes. I mean you kinda need a sick sense of humour to appreciate it so definitely not for a mainstream audience but... It wasn't a case of him trying to make a super serious story in the first place.

[@princess7jasmine]

You should have mentioned Garth Ennis's obsession with using rape as a plot device for literally everyone.

[@brunoyudi9555]

@@djchodegasm7268 which doesn't say much tho

[@djchodegasm7268]

@@brunoyudi9555 wdym tho

[@Jalapos]

@@djchodegasm7268 idk tho

[@mkultra2456]

You gotta stop saying literally.

[@Jalapos]

@@mkultra2456 he said it once?

[@myrin265]

The target audience of The Boys comics are the same kind of people who throw a tantrum when people on the internet make “babygirl” jokes about characters like Kendall Roy and Tony Soprano

[@goukeban6197]

I have no context for what that means!

[@parzavaal5335]

I can feel this in my soul.

[@jessegauthier6985]

The duality of the internet

[@davidtrainor9569]

This is pretty mych how I felt about the comic. Ennis is a great writer but his hatred for superheroes hampered the story beginning to end. And at a certain point it felt disrespectful to the people that created the characters he was taking shots at, Jack Kirby served in the military and saw action but Ennis considers Captain America disrespectful?

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Exactly.

[@danielwood6833]

Considering how much we see “what if Superman were evil”s , I still found the show’s Homelander to be really refreshing. Not just because his character is so evil, yet complex and interesting, but also because it’s evident that they aren’t just banking on the idea “if Superman were real he’s be evil”. They recognise what made a lonely Kal El good was his being raised by loving parents who instilled him with good values, and Homelander is the result of the thought “what if instead Superman was raised from birth by corporate America”.

[@stefanradebach2889]

That is what makes the "Evil Superman" trope work so well with The Boys because it focuses on a very integral aspect of Superman's character: the way they were raised. Superman being raised with love and instilled with moral values is what made him righteous hero. Homelander meanwhile is not only raised in a lab without any love or compassion but unlike Clark he isn't instilled with good values but instead with "American values" which on top of being very superficial and shallow concepts of what constitutes good morals also happen to contain large amounts of nationalistic thinking in the idea of "American exceptionalism" in that America is special and above all other nations and people since they are "unique" which at it's core concept is a racist and supremacist ideology that they have the god given right to do what they ever want. The result is that of a sociopath who thinks he is above everyone and can do whatever he wants because these are the values he has been raised with and that i think is another crucial aspect for why Homelander is a well written "Evil Superman" type of character due to how this type of writing shows and explores how ultra-nationalism disguised as "American values" can corrupt a person into being an egotistical supremacist who believes they are above everyone and can do whatever they want which is not only a major problem with America but also other nations where this sort of mentality has led to war, oppression and atrocities. It's this exploration of psychology and mentality from real life in someone like Homelander that makes him an engaging and interesting villain.

[@countjondi9672]

​@@morbonator5091 I personally have mixes opinions on Red Son. I like the idea that of a Soviet Superman that would feel the need to take out Stalin, but the subsequent dictator superman feels way off to his previous behaviors in a hamfisted way.

[@morbonator5091]

@@countjondi9672 Alright, fair enough. Even without having read it myself I can certainly see just from the premise how it might be... let's say an *acquired taste*, regardless of how well it was or wasn't done.

[@danielwood6833]

@Muttering Jim notice how I specified “raised by corporate America” is what I find interesting. That specific concept. Not “wasn’t raised by loving parents” or “good turned evil” like Injustice.

[@Kaiserboo1871]

@@countjondi9672 I’ve always believed that Kal El should be written as a person that represents the very best person that the society that raised him could possibly produce. Even in regimes that were horrible and cruel he would represent the very best of that society, and this includes Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany. Personally, I’d like to see what a Superman raised in previous civilizations would look like. We’ve already seen a Superman raised by Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany, so I want to see how other civilizations would raise him. Some ideas I’ve had included 1. Ancient Egypt 2. Ancient Athens 3. Ancient Rome 4. Bourbon France 5. Antebellum South (he would be 18 when the Civil War starts) 6. Imperial China 7. Victorian Britain

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

I find hilarious how Ennis hates fictional characters this much and is willing to portray them commiting atrocities but constantly jerks off the military every chance he gets in every comic he's writen.

[@ryanchase9332]

He's the comic book equal to Michael Bay.

[@drew3758]

A-10's are pretty cool.

[@error-try-again-later]

"it's okay when we do it"

[@cam4636]

Yeah, I liked how the problem with a few people having the power to do whatever they wanted and using it to do whatever they wanted is solved by...the military and some heavily armed trenchcoat dudes

[@Ragiroth]

He probably mains all the Special Forces characters in Mortal Kombat

[@Bleak5170]

The Boys comic is the only series where I felt kind of dirty and even depressed after reading it. It's so dark.

[@conit4125]

I actually kinda like the idea of a genuinely good hero driven mad with guilt over horrible actions he can't remember doing and eventually committing similar atrocities of his own free will, only to discovered he wasn't the one doing them in the first place. I think it could be good if written better.

[@awesomedonut8228]

irredeemable almost did that, almost, but he did started out as a genuine hero that turned on the world

[@FireFoxGaming_]

Yeah. I do like this idea too.

[@Creepsandwicheater]

Pretty sure that is just Marvel's sentry.

[@conit4125]

@@Creepsandwicheater Nah Sentry actually has an evil alter ego and Sentry himself doesn't really fall to the dark side. This is more like a good hero turning bad then finding out everything that caused him to turn bad was a lie.

[@Creepsandwicheater]

@@conit4125 fair enough just feel like in quite a few stories he can be antagonistic as he sorta lets null/void cant recall which take control sometimes.

[@samfivedot]

Garth Ennis is such a confusing writer to me. On the one hand he can write something like the Slavers arc in Punisher MAX, which is incredibly dark (even for that comic), but also a realistic depiction of human trafficking that manages to be thoughtful and empathetic towards the victims. You can tell Ennis was furious when he wrote it, but even so he never loses that empathy. And then in The Boys, Butcher trains his dog to sexually assault people.

[@jbeast3385]

Rereading a lot of Ennis’s work showed that he has a really messed up perception of SA victims that occasionally shows a degree of empathy, but it also comes off as condescending at best or downright callous at worse. Almost all of his female central characters not only get SA’d in the works, but also tend to be gratuitously sexualized. It’s an uncomfortable dynamic that was already under critique when Preacher came out. But then he also has “less manly” male characters get SA’d for outright comical purposes or just to denigrate them. The Boys comic has an entire segment where Hughie gets assaulted by Black Noir, and when he admits it to the Boys, they laugh at him and tell him it’s funny, don’t expect sympathy.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

@@jbeast3385 If you read Crossed, you'll realize that Ennis's depiction of sexual harassment is worse than you think. Aside from the excessive gore, there are several scenes of rape everywhere because the Crossed are obviously known for raping absolutely every person and anything they see (including children, animals, dead people, and even inanimate objects if I remember correctly). Unlike The Boys, this one is highly degrading because of how vividly it is represented and how it appears to exist solely to degrade characters (mostly female ones). Every single fucking detail is shown in the scenes of sodomy, rape, pedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. What's worse is that it seemingly tries to be funny even though absolutely no one in their right mind would laugh at it. On that point, there's also a lot of explicit nudity that's displayed in graphic detail far too often, which also includes underaged children too. LET THAT FUCKING SINK IN.

[@jbeast3385]

@@Noelle_Holiday Oh, I’ve read Crossed ages ago. Probably the first comic I’ve had to put down because it outright just was ruining my mental state, and I say this having seen plenty of gore and horrific shit online. Crossed just hits the line of redundancy, to be honest. I read the first plot line and some of the Badlands materials, and every single one of them feels like they’re trying to tell you “no, all this butchery has a greater meaning behind it”, and the greater meaning is “man’s the real monster” every single time. Rinse and repeat, the only variation is whatever corpse they ripped out of a medical textbook. Don’t bother getting attached to any characters, they’ll either die horribly or turn out to be a secret pedophile or something. I honestly wouldn’t even consider it a horror work, because it just kinda repulses the reader with sheer charnel house gore rather than using subtlety, nuance, or tension. It’s like a comedian who only makes people laugh by tickling them.

[@Noelle_Holiday]

​@@jbeast3385 ​Yeah, Crossed is just fucking dogshit. There are constant revolting scenes that make it very difficult to stomach for just about anyone, and I am honestly surprised this wasn't made into an underground comic. Don't get me wrong, I think the premise of a society overrun by a virus that turns people into sadistic psychopaths could've been legitimately interesting and fun, but Garth Ennis himself is far more interested in being as shocking, offensive, and "edgy" as possible rather than actually writing a good story. While Garth Ennis has written plenty of violent comics over a few decades, at least those have good writing (most of the time, anyway), a message, and a darkly humorous tone. In contrast, Crossed takes itself WAY too seriously. Some of the stories lack an ending at all, with only the interesting stuff and some other character or plot development happening in dialogue instead. The whole series is on the same level as A Serbian Film where it's literally nothing more than an endless parade of brutality and torture porn that revels in the worst aspects of humanity and takes itself way too seriously to the point where it can be challenging to enjoy, even if you're desensitized to gore and violence. That being said, however, it's also extremely hard to be all that fazed by all the blood, guts, and absurdly over-the-top violence, either. Ironically enough, the Berserk manga is actually WAY more violent, disturbing, and sexual than Crossed ever could but at least all of them work in favor of producing a compelling story and doesn't really come across as unlikeable or mean-spirited in comparison.

[@jbeast3385]

@@Noelle_Holiday Berserk’s a great point of contrast. Someone once described Berserk as a work that strives to take the sheer depravity inherent of mankind and balance it with its amazing potential for compassion and healing. In many ways, Guts and Casca are subject to some of the worse traumas the world have to offer, and it wounds them harder than anyone can put to words. But despite it all, they still strive to make something of it, and I think that’s what makes them so beautiful.

[@jordanorlando1174]

I remember there was a ton of speculation in the first two seasons of the Boys if Noir was a clone of Homelander. And I am just so glad that they decided not to do that because I just found that twist to just be so dumb and such a cop-out.

[@fawkewe]

5:16 honestly thats such a fucking awful parody of proffesor X. He is a ridiculously loving and caring character who will do everything to benefit his species and people like him. Having him do something that evil is just lazy and so far from what he is actually like (and not in a clever way like Homelander V Superman) its infuriating. They should’ve simply given him an anterior motive for it like wanting to groom the xmen to use as an army to take over the world or something.

[@sapphicwriter]

Also pretty messed up considering the queer-coded nature of some versions of Professor X. In fact, on the topic of minority groups can we just talk about how in his attempt to parody stereotypes in superhero comics Garth actually instead showed how much he views gay men as deceptive and manipulative pedophiles and black people as just a bunch of ghetto brawling losers

[@atonxment2868]

The Homelander in the show is a remarkable villain. He knows how to cover up, lie to public, fit into his daily hero role whilst fulfilling his sick desire. He might be a man-child but he’s still kind of smart. The comic version is just an idiotic maniac lol.

[@memesforbreakfast3447]

Homelander is just the average celebrity, just with superpowers

[@dik56]

He's not good at any of those things lmfao, hes constantly on the verge of being ruined. Homelander in the comics feels like a dark souls final boss

[@Lozak]

@@dik56 exactly my thoughts, reading some ot these replies really made me question if we were watching the same show at all

[@satanwithinternet2753]

@@Lozak really ? Cuz i remember some times where you see how good he is at lies like the plane crash scene where he manipulates people and makes it a fight against terrorism or during the capes for chridt thing or how he treats bryan or when he uses translucents death

[@danielhernandez2575]

@@dik56 Don't compare this shit comic to Dark Souls.

[@Awwscrewit]

The truly stupid thing about the Black Noir reveal is if you compare the silhouette to early issues there is a clear difference in shape. Ennis had no idea how to wrap up his murder fantasy so he just pulled that out of his ass.

[@chrisdaughen5257]

The whole reason Noir does it is stupid. Conditioning Noir to kill Homelander if he goes rogue makes sense, but to have it be his sole obsession ends up being counter productive. Noir does the thing he was to stop Homelander from doing.

[@Awwscrewit]

@@chrisdaughen5257 Keeping him around Homelander is also stupid. If he's your ace in the hole, why are you giving everyone a chance to see it? One errant explosion ripping the mask and the jig is up.

[@ginogatash4030]

Makes me wonder what the fuck the show is gonna do for the finale.

[@massgunner4152]

@@ginogatash4030 i predict that homelonder gets exposed for his crimes, the company goes under after the controversy and there is a super hero civil war while homelander goes insane.

[@caramel7149]

*The artist looks at your comment, cries, and writes a power fantasy about how he is so cool and nerds are so not cool. Learning nothing, absolutely nothing, as he nerds out.*

[@yourjunes]

Ennis is the epitome of everything I'm glad we left behind in the late 90s/early 2000s. Its funny that to me that his work gets trashed now tho, its always been bad.

[@Coalproductionsfilm]

I always find it odd how he managed to write punisher so well too. Even when adapting other heroes in the stories he did well. If you only read his punisher stuff you would think he is a good writer

[@psmgames5861]

​@@Coalproductionsfilm Perhaps it's because there's an editor reviewing his script, consistently advising him to tone it down or outright saying, 'What the fuck, Ennis?

[@Coalproductionsfilm]

@@psmgames5861 i mean the completed collections say that he had basically sovereign control over his max series since his marvel knights series was so popular

[@CollinMcLean]

@@Coalproductionsfilm I think because the Punisher is already a super edgy character who engages in brutal violence...

[@Jepze158]

@@psmgames5861 It is that and because he actually likes Frank Castle as an character.

[@nathancarter8239]

The depressing thing about Garth Ennis is that when he's not writing about something he hates, he's actually quite good. _The Boys_ is the obvious example, as well as a work called _The Pro_ which is lesser-known, but he's also written _Crossed_ (which was him hating on zombie fiction), _303_ (about a Russian soldier shooting W. Bush with a Lee-Enfeld .303 rifle (yes)), _Dastardly and Muttley_ (a surprisingly-depressing comic about two cartoon characters), and his many, many, _many_ occasions where he hates on religion, including _Just a Pilgrim, Preacher_ & _The Chronicles of Wormwood._ But he's well-known for thoroughly researching for his war comics, like _Battlefields, War Stories,_ or _The Stringbags._ He wrote _Caliban,_ which is a gripping and terrifying comic about a ship trapped on a larger, more monstrous ship with something hunting them. And he's responsible for a lot of the themes around _The Darkness_ from Top Cow Productions, a character who remains popular to this day. I wish he was better at writing, because when he's good I enjoy it a lot.

[@geovannibotticella7822]

My brother loved the boys and was so into it that he immediately bought the comic. Next time I saw him I asked how he liked the comic He looked at me so sad and said “it ….it was awful”

[@Aisha_Luv]

Aww man... Ive heard good things about the watchman... Maybe ur brother should check that out?

[@number-qx1kw]

Wait fr ?

[@federicoanzola2785]

Tell him to read manga cause cómics are usually trash

[@thedoctor4327]

@Aisha_Luv! Watchmen is the superhero deconstruction story Ennis wishes his work was a tenth as good as. It has the same basic idea of showing how the real world would chew up and spit out costumed heroes but without showing them all as depraved monsters, rather they have more varied responses to the world’s realities and fall on a much greater spectrum of morality. It’s gritty and occasionally depraved/screwed up but not to excess and feels like it has real character arcs and messages to explore

[@the_representative]

@@federicoanzola2785 This better be bait, because manga has plenty of its own common problems. (Obviously not all though)

[@GambeTama]

I once heard a phrase about the deconstruction of superheroes, and I think this comic embodies it perfectly: "The difference between satire and edgy/bad commentary is whether or not the writer actually understands the thing that they are parodying."

[@yuvalgabay1023]

Reminds me of a sentence some one told :" before you play whit the box you should anderstand the box"

[@bigbearkat2010]

I think Mel Brooks has mentioned to make a good parody you need to have some kind of love for the material

[@imeowmeowkat]

Garth Ennis literally was a major comic book writer.

[@martincann5052]

@@imeowmeowkat Who has hated superheroes since childhood.

[@GambeTama]

@@imeowmeowkat True, but taking his works and opinions on superheroes into consideration, it seems like he has a fairly narrow view/opinion of the genre. His work oozes disdain, and is not a deconstruction, but a tear-down. By contrast, Allan Moore also isnt very fond of superheroes, but he clearly respects their cultural significance and importance. Watchmen had heavy themes about the mentality of people who become or want to become superheroes, and how they handle a very harsh and unforgiving world of war and politics. Even "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," which is a book about bad characters, is about them demonstrating how much more complex they are as people. Garth just seems to have a very Freudian view of people in his books as inherently selfish and cruel, and that those with power will immediately use it to do the most selfish and cruel things. It's a comparatively very shallow and needlessly harsh way of looking at things, because even the most basic of comic fans can say "this is a strawman argument at absolute best." I think the TV show leaning more into the corporatism angle is a huge reason why people took to it so well, because it still feels like it is taking heroes seriously, but now in the context of celebrity culture and the kinds of pressures that puts on a person who may not truly understand how deep they're in until it is too late.

[@LoneWolf343]

You know, when I first started reading The Boys (didn't finish it,) and I figured it was a story about a everyman who slowly gets corrupted by power and a culture of violence. I didn't finish it because I really wasn't interested in that kind of story at that point, and also I felt gross reading it. Turns out I was giving the story far too much credit. It wasn't even that deep. Wow.

[@-hackzzz-7282]

“The boys teaches us an important lesson to remember that too much the twords something can become just as annoying and intolerable as the thing it’s making fun of” this is so true on so many levels about so many things 😂🤦🏼‍♂️

[@Abolas452]

Bro really wrote a “then everyone dies” ending 😂😂😂

[@punchdreadnought8101]

and its refreshing to see that The Boys amazon series does not follow the plot of comic version. Gives me hope that a better ending for Butcher and The Boys shall occur. Queen Maeve has a perfect ending already, unless Homelander goes crazy and murders her in ss4 (spoiler alert) she does not have powers to fight back anymore.

[@yesnomaybeso8633]

"The end! 😃" "That didn't help at all!"

[@thomaskelly556]

low iq

[@widjayagohpeircess5777]

only good 'everyone dies' ending is probably Rogue One

[@thomaskelly556]

@@widjayagohpeircess5777 nah

[@SurrogateActivities]

So it's basically "if I had superpowers, I would wear a cool trenchcoat(not a friggin nerdy tight costume!) and kill nerds(that are evil so its justified)"

[@Noelle_Holiday]

So you really want to be The Punisher, huh?

[@ALotOfCancer]

Garth Ennis is an incel confirmed

[@BigWheel.]

I guess in a way isn't that much like a superhero though? "if I had superpowers I would wear a costume and beat up thugs (they're evil so it's justified)" Like, superheros In themselves are also power fantasies. The difference is their aggression is aimed at people we ALL would find undesirable, like criminals and terrorists. Literally speaking here superheros are people who are basically the most powerful beings in existence who take the law in their own hands and impose their morality in their world. I understand that in the comics they're usually doing something undeniably good, but then they lack the depth that moral flaws bring, not everyone is perfect and maybe comics have handled that moral grey area a superhero might possess but I haven't personally seen too many examples, but I'm no expert on the subject either so maybe I'm just out of the loop.

[@skycastrum5803]

Not really. Butcher's hatred is is a key part of the story and isn't viewed favorably.

[@AL-lh2ht]

You can tell in one here actually read the story. It’s impossible to read it and believe butcher, literally named butcher, is a “good guy”.

[@eyeover7307]

The boys comic is like when your saying the highest number you think of in elementary school and some kid says "infinity" and you say "infinity plus 1"

[@omnipotentowlproductions]

Did we go to the same school or do all kids do that at some point

[@krievv]

0:57 ngl I laughed so hard at that jump scare. Just someone's ass flying at the camera is hilarious

[@Vinograd2008]

I think the sound of the jump scare will be a wet fart.

[@Dyngblue]

Too many people think that just being cynical makes you smart. Asking the questions is the first step, trying to find a better way is the next one. Too many people stop at step one.

[@stanza77]

Facts!!!!

[@valhatan3907]

say it louder, mate. Say it louder.

[@suckballs6601]

whats the point of finding a better way when you'll never get to implement it

[@cr820]

Well put. Cynicism is the aborted first half of doing anything useful.

[@phabiorules]

I good qoute I once heard "alot of people make the mistake of confusing cynicism with wisdom. It isn't, it's just cynicism."

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

The only change I find very strange is Homelander's obsession with tiddy-milk. That was SO strange that I thought (for sure) it was from the comics...but nope

[@kingmob2716]

It might be a reference to comic's Mother's Milk, who is kept alive by drinking his mutated mother's breast milk. Since MM is far more dignified in the show they gave the trait to Homelander as a fetish.

[@TheNeutralZone]

I think it makes sense in the way that Homelander is desperate for love and affection, something he never got as a child due to him coming from a test tube. It just shows how fucked up he is from growing up in Vought’s environment.

[@LucyWest370]

@@TheNeutralZone I can get him acting like a literal child but like… why this specific way?

[@devinbirse6431]

@@LucyWest370 probz cause it’s also just unsettling to look at, like in away different to a lot of the other freaky stuff in the show so it also kind of helps homelanders oddness stand out.

[@somethingfunny2199]

Look man if MM wasn’t going to do it someone had to

[@halljustin4306]

Garth Ennis should really stick to his historical military books. He actually isn’t that bad when writing about the Red Baron or whatever.

[@gilgammesh1]

My fave thing from this show has to be the marketing and how everybody plays along in comments etc like its a real life thing.

[@RedtailArt]

The original The Boys comic is like the comic book equivalent of those old newgrounds flash games where the entire point was just "kill (random celebrity that the creator doesn't like)". I also think it's hilarious how overtly obvious it is that the writer didn't want to have to deal with writing the consequences of his character's actions, because he literally just kills off every character at the end for no reason

[@iantaakalla8180]

Meanwhile, The Boys the Netflix show is basically a thoughtful show written by a person who pines for the grittiest aesthetics of the 2000 animations but knows how it combines with a good story.

[@Mediados]

@@iantaakalla8180 And they add a good amount of humor in a fitting way, so that it lightens up a bit and you're not just watching a depression fest.

[@saragonzalez7839]

​@@iantaakalla8180 the boys isn't on Netflix

[@tuuperasus4202]

The boys comic is the equivalent of those newgrounds games about school shootings basicaly

[@ilhambrewok7860]

@@tuuperasus4202 Pico's School?

[@andrewflaxman7826]

In short, the difference is that the comic believes supes are evil because they are human, while the show believes that supes are evil because they are constantly being separated and isolated from their humanity.

[@brunovance8101]

Well, don't forget that all of the mothers to supes are mentally disabled women living in asylums. I think the genetic disposition to mental illness makes more sense than "You were raised without a mother so you're a sociopath"

[@unstablerupture6983]

No it's pretty clear in the show that the supes are evil due to their inherent humanity

[@brunovance8101]

@@unstablerupture6983 Vogulbaum specifically states Homelander is such a sociopath because he was raised without a mother in the show. We can't have positive father figures anymore unless they're raising kids that aren't theirs.

[@LucyWest370]

@@unstablerupture6983 no, pretty sure Maeve literally says that humanity is their weakness.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

Basically also The Boys Show is not only riffing on superheroes but Celebreties, Politics, Corporations and Politicians themselves.

[@chimpwimp9407]

One of my biggest issues was the drawings. Sometimes it was hard for me to decipher what was happening based on the illustrations. The needed to do a better job story boarding.

[@badulgumm5458]

And the soft black shading is ugly too

[@justasillylilguy.]

Oh god the comic is so fucking ugly it's not even funny. Shit writing and shit drawing. And this is coming from an artist

[@KB-si5fx]

I've watched the show and read the comic. The show was a HUGE improvement.

[@orangutan-halibut-walrus]

the comic wasn't kinda terrible. it was garbage. it had interesting ideas and utterly failed to execute on every level. the show is superior in every single way and i'm shocked and pleased. i don't think i've ever seen an adaptation surpass its source material so completely before.

[@amuroray9115]

I’m amazed someone at Amazon saw this edgy comic and barely thought “I can rewrite this to make it much better.” Kudos to them.

[@T--kq3pj]

Yeah to nad the show is woke shitfest

[@gaspachoo5046]

needs to happen more often, we tend to put original creators on an unrealistic pedestal. Alot of times people who come up with good ideas aren’t themselves best suited for fully utilizing said ideas. They just happened to think of it first.

[@CRT-5826]

American Psycho, the book versus the movie was the first example of this I think

[@WATCHERtheCHANNEL]

Starship Troopers? The movie was basically a parody of the book.

[@falkworld9970]

“Butcher decides to kill all the boys” If the unnecessary shock value didn’t turn you away from reading the comic then this ending just might

[@dmitrykhvostik5975]

I like how people are blinded by deaths of the characters so much that they completely miss the message that Butcher consumed by his hatred became no better than those who he seek to destroy Death of Superman syndrome never ages lol

[@MisogynyMan]

I kinda guessed from the start that in the end, Butcher would have to off everyone, that he himself would be the biggest villain. It wasn't a big surprise when it happened. Also figured Butcher would be the one with the bloody cum under the door, but was only half right about that one :P How did he know the guy he paid to do that would have bloody cum?

[@Cherry-pu4mx]

Actually thts something the comic did pretty well and wht every dham movie is afraid to do

[@725ken]

@@dmitrykhvostik5975 what is 'death of superman syndrome'? I've never heard of that before

[@glassofgas8631]

Well it made sense since butcher wanted to erase compound v

[@nobodyimportant4778]

Thank god the military could fulfill the roles of played straight comic book superheroes and save the day. Because as we know, the military definitely ISN'T an overwhelmingly powerful force with tons of propaganda backing them up while they do evil racketeering things under the hood. Unlike superheroes.

[@KngMaxwell]

11:38 it was at this moment i realized the joke of A Train’s name (unless i’m reading too deep into this) “running a train” on someone

[@spaaaceman1939]

Billy in the comics is like a dollar store punisher. Call him the Chastiser

[@ThatsShowbizBabyy]

Underrated comment

[@thedeviantguy]

I think the most important thing about bad media is what it says about the person who made it and the people who like it. In the end it’s like the video said, he just wants to live our violent revenge fantasies against people who he doesn’t like. And wanted that so much that he spent a significant period of his life drawing it out for kicks. He really loves sexual assault, gay sex, and pedophilia, otherwise why would he dedicate so much time to painstakingly illustrating it? I mean, drawing it poorly, but drawing it nonetheless.

[@RICO30HD]

The Inconveniencer☠️

[@thischannelwasamistake9403]

The slap-on-the-wrister

[@mikaroni_and_cheez]

The "we need to talk"er

[@bearandthebull2372]

One great thing about the show is that it doesn't turn every hero into this sociopathic monster that rapes and kills for fun.Each one is nuanced to a degree and quite a few have been shown to just wanna be left alone with their families and lives without interference,which makes butchers hatred of them less pragmatic than his comic counterpart. The comic version is just:How depraved can we make each supe that we create?

[@Lucy_Ferrr]

It’s almost like people have complex and layered motivations and values. Crazy thought, I know.

[@bearandthebull2372]

@Eduardo Perez The comic is essentially "how many times can i draw a psycho path in spandex get beat up by the not-punisher". There's a message sure,but your insane if you think it's portrayed in any logical way outside "heroes bad,corporations bad".

[@renard6012]

@Eduardo Perez There's nothing to "get." It's Garth Ennis ranting (again) about things he hates (superheroes, corporations, etc.) while being a tryhard. Nothing new at all. I'd rather read Punisher kills the Marvel universe again.

[@lars573]

@@renard6012 Why? It was terrible.

[@alessandrajackson3768]

That’s what I love. Also how the flushed out Vought to feel like a Disney or Amazon company. They all have motives and reasons why they do what they do, even Homelander.

[@FrostiTruth]

The casting for "The Boys" was also phenomenal.

[@BlackKnightsCommander]

The comics version of Butcher kinda feels like Sonichu when it comes to how his character acts

[@Cloperella]

The more i hear about the original comic, the more astounded i am that it was picked up by Amazon at all and not thrown out the window. Big props to them for saying "yeah it's pretty messy, but with the right people putting some elbow grease into it, we can turn it into something extraordinary"

[@UnicornStorm]

well, thanks to walking dead and game of thrones, overly gory tv shows became really popular, and Watchmen is a beloved deconstruction of superhero comics, so why not produce something that combines the two

[@J-manli]

Well, if Amazon tried to pursue more "family friendly" content, they would have to directly compete with Disney. So rather than compete with the biggest entertainment giant, Amazon did make a smart move in catering to an audience that Disney rarely touches.

[@nickrustyson8124]

@@J-manli And plus like everyone is saying, MCU Fatigue is a thing, so seeing a world were those Heros are the bad guys in a mostly serious way is also a reason why this show got so popular

[@markstewardson4006]

The Boys was always a good concept on paper. It's just Ennis could not help being Ennis whilst he wrote it. I agree big props to the people for taking the source material and making something this good with it

[@kielanwade5096]

@@J-manli This is facts. Prime Video feels like the edgy, NSFW cousin of Disney Plus and even most of the stuff on Netflix.

[@cdv3401]

Garth Ennis tried so hard to make fun of the cringe that he just became it.

[@trollerpilotxiv3079]

"I used the cringe to destroy the cringe"

[@JIMT412]

@@trollerpilotxiv3079 "You didn't destroyed anything, you just became even cringer"

[@amirgarcia547]

So you either die based, or live long enough to see yourself become cringe.

[@123rockfan]

The tv show became it as well. The cartoon shit with Black Noir is the dumbest thing I’ve seen in a show in a long time

[@rognogog5092]

@@123rockfan that was supposed to portray BNs mental state

[@julianfan5794]

Weird he’d hate captain america, that hero is the embodiment of the moral high ground

[@ENDERWS]

Garth Ennis is one of the only people in comics I've ever actually heard my LCS guy openly speak about hating their work, but I'd actually read very little of it myself, so this was some added context for me.

[@fremontstreetpresents1415]

Garth Ennis actually wrote some pretty good stuff. The Boys is.... not exactly his finest work. read Preacher or Hitman.

[@Hijinx1997]

I read the entire series and I felt personally attacked the whole time.

[@JIMT412]

I felt like the writer was treating me like an idiot for liking super heroes. Well I believe his even more idiot for doing this comics.

[@bryanmanuel4945]

@@JIMT412 Think the writer pretty much hates all heroes well except Superman. I wonder why he writes about them but oh well

[@NerdXZ-pn4nt]

good

[@Horatio787]

@@JIMT412 The stupidest part is that in the comic the boys ARE super powered and take the law into their own hands. Literally the only difference is that they're not wearing costumes.

[@CT9wasmyhandle]

aww you poor snowflake....

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Making Homelander a legit good guy who tried to be a hero and stand above the others, only to be driven mad by falsified evidence that he's a monster, could have also been a neat way to recontextualize the character.

[@socialanxietydora4112]

That would be a twist, what he did to star made me not feel bad for him when they gaslighted him.

[@ughghger]

That would've been really cool to see in the show, just remove the rape of starlight and we good

[@levongevorgyan6789]

Yeah, definetly.@@ughghger

[@comebackguy8892]

​@@ughghgerUh, what? I've seen the entire show and have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. I think you've accidentally mistaken a certain other site for Amazon...

[@BestBOSelder]

@@comebackguy8892the first episode when the deep met starlight

[@ff-pj3de]

It's one of the most Garth Ennis comic books of all time. which doesn't mean that it is automatically bad, it just means that it is very cynical/sarcastic and and also very convinced about it's own (moral) messages (and being cynical/sarcastic). So convinced (and recurring, cause I can ind a lot of overlap between boys and preacher), in fact, that I wouldn't be surprised they echo Ennis' own believes.

[@mahpell7173]

I don't think you can depict this much hatred to something without actually hating it yourself.

[@gagemead27]

I never even realized in that Shadow the Hedgehog cutscene... He pumps an M-16 like a shotgun. I have a migraine now.

[@thebigwagyu]

In Garth Ennis’ world, literally everyone is an evil depraved monster. That old lady walking down the street? She has a sex dungeon filled with dead bodies. It’s so one dimensional, and the comic was the reason why I put off watching the show for so long.

[@BobExcalibur]

No that's wrong and stupid. Most average people are decent in Ennis's work, just indifferent and easily manipulated.

[@thedukeofchutney468]

@@BobExcalibur Indifference to evil is still evil. Garth Ennis is less concerned with making interesting characters, but rather just complaining about the superhero genre.

[@BobExcalibur]

No, the comic is also a deconstruction of the kinds of characters and stories Ennis likes to write. Butcher is the ultimate antagonist.

[@user-iy7jo7bq4f]

@@BobExcalibur 1. Tech-Knight... Somehow the most ridiculous sexual deviant possible that had infatuation with his young sidekicks... 2. John Godolkin... Somehow a sex offender to his young sidekicks/apprentices... 3. Oh-Father... Somehow a sex offender to his also young sidekicks/apprentices... 4. Homelander... Also a repeated and *public* sex offender for no reason... 5. A-Train... Also a sex offender... 6. Deep... Tried to be a sex offender... The characterization behind the comics were the wackiest I've ever seen... Like Ennis wasn't even trying to write compelling villains but just shove in the laziest trope possible... "Just hate these guys... What are their arcs??? I didn't think about it..." Somehow, Marvel and DC comics were more mature by comparison... Thank god the show exists...

[@piperian3962]

If a character is merely indifferent in Ennis’s work it’s because they’re not developed. When he fleshes out a character, that’s when it turns out they have children buried in their basement.

[@BlazeMakesGames]

Wait a second. If you think about it, if the Boys are fully powered from the start, and all the superheroes are objectively evil cause they're pedophiles and shit. Then didn't he just completely recreate the thing that they were making fun of from the start? Like all he did was make a superhero team that goes around killing bad guys. Sure it's much more gory and edgy than a traditional superhero story but at the end of the day he literally just recreated the thing he supposedly hates so much. After all the core of all superhero stories is that the hero discovers and then has to take out the bad guy. It really does feel like this guy didn't even know what he actually hated. I guess the only thing he actually had a problem with was the idea of people wearing costumes. But this seems like a lot of effort to go through just to make that statement. And when you have a main character who's clearly designed to look cool by wearing a trenchcoat all the time, well sorry buddy but you just made a costume.

[@Horatio787]

Exactly. You could say a trench coat resembles a cape as well.

[@shawklan27]

The matrix taught us that trenchcoats are badass costumes so yeah you're right on that part

[@BostonMBrand]

Exactly. I mean Ennis really likes the Punisher (who for all intensive purposes is a superhero) and despite his more grounded design, the punisher still wears a costume. His logo is basically just the same as any other hero.

[@tjenadonn6158]

Garth strikes me as a scared, confused little man who has no idea what he hates but just knows that he hates it. One wonders if his family invites him home for Thanksgiving.

[@mr.goblin6039]

Yeah, but in Garth Ennis’ pov, they’re cool and not lame cause they’re all dressed like rejects from The Matrix instead of wearing spandex and colorful costumes. Garth has always had a weird hate boner for superheroes that aren’t Superman or The Punisher. He doesn’t care if it comes of as hypocritical. To him, the fact that his superpowered totally cool OCs don’t wear costumes is better cause he says so.

[@Ximeao_Melanida]

"Makes you feel kind of dirty reading through it" Yup. That's typical Ennis.

[@Yalam99]

A friend lent me the first trade, I read it and thought, "This is weak." I loved Preacher, even though it has weak sections, but The Boys is so ill-conceived I could not be bothered with it. If we're supposed to hate the supes because they are immoral and never have comeback for it, maybe don't have the heroes behave exactly as immoral and never have comeback for it. I'm glad Ennis has tried his hand at more thoughtful projects, like Sara, which was excellent.

[@fricc3824]

also not to mention that the comic has terrible dialogue even in the "serious" moments but the show has such great actors/actresses for each character that it pretty much writes itself. homelanders actor is absolutely the best person who could have played him and he honestly deserves an award for it

[@blueprint7]

the dialogue in the comic is witty and insightful

[@fricc3824]

@@blueprint7 yeahhhhhh cause shoving the hard r in at every possible moment is definitely witty and insightful

[@thedarkmasterthedarkmaster]

@@fricc3824 Are you black?

[@mr.worldwide5566]

@@fricc3824 You can’t forget the classic “You fucking fucking fuck you fucked my life” in the Black Noir twist. Such witty dialogue

[@fricc3824]

@@mr.worldwide5566 immaculate wit and superb charm. never anything more astounding

[@flashgordon9308]

Garth seriously missed the mark in numerous ways, his whole attack on Captain America is how he’s a “disgrace to the actual vets who fought in the war” when the two men that created him Jack Kirby and Joe Simon were both former military personnel, and the comics were popular with actual soldiers in that time period. The X-Men parody is shallow as hell and doesn’t touch on how they were a metaphor for civil rights advocacy. Not to mention his whole “superheroes are useless” thing is pointless cuz he specifically created a world in The Boys where there would be no need for Superheroes. In the comics that Butcher makes fun of, it’s pretty obvious why the world needs someone like Superman, cuz the military themselves can’t take down villains like Doomsday. And also props to you for that shot at the end about Grant’s weird boner for the military industrial complex. Dude wrote a story about superheroes and what not being corrupt while also caping for law enforcement and the government like they haven’t been guilty of doing fucked up shit themselves. EDIT: Gotta love how some of the comics’ defenders arguments boil down to A) “No it was a satire” then failing to explain how it’s a good satire Or B) Weak ass insults Lmao proving my point

[@dragonstormx]

Ennis was actually trying to critique the military industrial complex with Vought being an arms manufacturer whose products are crap, while lionizing the people in the armed forced. The people in the armed forces who get their weapons thanks to arms manufacturers and are winning so easily because of all the flashy weapons built by the military industrial complex.

[@SOMEGUY7893]

@@dragonstormx Yeah it's one of those things that fails to make the point it's trying to because of that very dynamic. Like you can't show the military slaughtering a ton of extremely fucked up people who just overthrew government and think people's take-away is going to be "military industrial complex bad".

[@akulahirpada1993]

Yeah Prof X and Magneto was pretty much inspired by MLK and Malcolm X.

[@smugsnivy5036]

Yeah, this guy hates volunteer heroes who risk their lives to save people then supports the military that wages useless wars and commits war crimes against some third world country.

[@flashgordon9308]

@@SOMEGUY7893 exactly. Showing the military killing a bunch of rapists and shit contradicts that critique. And even then the comic still seems to dickride them and law enforcement so idk

[@nottegiew]

Garthcels on suicide watch whenever "muh le favorite edgy comik!" is shat on.

[@gokufirespit8418]

Give Ellis a break, his family was murdered at the hands of comic books

[@LuciidDreamerz]

The show is one of the best examples of what I wish there was more of, people making adaptations or remakes of a source material that isn't that good but has potential with its ideas, and legitimately improving upon it, instead of just remaking something that is already good and popular just to make an inferior or unnecessary product

[@tjenadonn6158]

A good example of this would be the Paul Verhoeven adaptation of Starship Troopers. If you read the original Robert Heinlein novel it's basically Atlas Shrugged In Space: less a story and more an ultralibertarian, ultramilitaristic philosophical treatise with the thinnest wisp of a plot attached to it to get people to buy it. Full on two thirds of the book takes place in civics classrooms. Paul took that starting material and reworked it into a satire of American veteran worship and the military industrial complex, resulting in a movie that is objectively a bad adaptation in terms of faithfully taking the material off the page and putting it onto film, but is a fantastic reworking of the characters and world of the novel to fit both the sci-fi blockbuster format and the more anti-hierarchical and pacifistic political outlook of its era and creator.

[@y3ee3e]

list examples of quality high concept ideas with poor executions that can be improved on?

[@lazydroidproductions1087]

@@tjenadonn6158 And yet people who vehemently defend the book and shit on the movie, missing the fact that the book is, well, hyper-libertarian pro-military to an almost fascist degree and the movie is making fun of that genre and not a serious part of it. And also, yes, while the Director never read the book, the screenwriter did.

[@jacob00white]

When remaking stuff all they need to do is keep the same themes and vibes of the original while making it it’s own thing (which the boys does well) instead of just trying to sketch the comic into reality

[@namekiz3199]

@@tjenadonn6158 ironically people at that time completely misunderstood the satire and even criticize its humoring idea which again somehow make it become a good adaptation in the end lol

[@MegaBoneface]

Garth Ennis is the embodiment of “I am 14 and this is deep”

[@chronos5060]

Do you mean… The Deep?

[@MegaBoneface]

@@chronos5060 Deep thoughts with the Deep

[@mr.potatoun2534]

@@chronos5060 Don’t you mean The *P E A K*

[@OptimisticSturmtruppen]

DEEEEEP

[@ejm1225]

Nah, it's more like "I am a 14-year-old edgelord."

[@benjamingaylord139]

Honestly, I don't hate that twist ending - or rather wouldn't if it was handled better. The idea of a (comparatively/possibly) good person being gaslit into a profound state of depressed self-induced derangement is a really interesting concept. I almost like it better than a dyed-in-the-wool psychopathic manchild like the show, but, well, the show handled everything better it seems so whatever.

[@andreworders7305]

Garth Ennis just sucks. You can’t write an effective deconstruction of something you hate. And that’s all he writes, awful “edgy” deconstructions, that don’t actually deconstruct anything.

[@Jepze158]

Nah, when he is writing character he likes he can be good writer. Though if you don't like Punisher then it can be harder to like his writing.

[@thewolf8660]

Let's be honest, this is an issue with superhero subversions in general; People who neither understand nor like the idea of people just wanting to do good decide to write "what would really happen if someone had super powers".

[@ihavenojawandimustscream4681]

I think the recent Batman movie is a far better superhero subversion than the Boys because of this;rather than saying that people will become crazy when they get superpowers the movie criticize the very concept of being a hero itself as nothing more than vigilante justice that can quickly get out of control

[@user-gm4kv2my4u]

@@ihavenojawandimustscream4681 thing is its not a criticism of heroes. It's a criticism of vigilantes. Batman becomes a hero in the end, realizing he can't just be a symbol of vengence but must be a symbol of hope if he wants to create the change he's striving for.

[@vaiyt]

People with superpowers who make the wrong choices are just supervillains. We already have those.

[@sensaiko]

But Ennis understand and likes superheroes, that's what you all are getting wrong.

[@VictorIV0310]

@@sensaiko He does make cool Superman stories tho.