How Fighters work in OSR D&D

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[@russellharrell2747]

Chainmail allowed figures with longer weapons to attack first compared to opponents wielding smaller weapons. However weapons that were much smaller vs those longer weapons could attack 2 or three times (a dagger vs a pole arm for example). This coupled with the extra attacks of higher level fighters vs single hit die creatures meant polearm fighters could obliterate groups of orcs or bandits before any of them could ever get close enough to attack. Also heroes and superheroes had effects on morale that usually didn’t get explicitly carried over to later editions. And there’s a footnote in Chainmail mentioning Rangers being Fighting-Men with bonuses to hit, making them an older ‘class’ than Thieves, Paladins or even Clerics.

[@devoureddeath222]

Fighter was always my favorite to play because you weren’t so squishy at early levels. If you only have one character and it’s a mage, you had one damn spell memorized and then you were useless until after memorizing again. We eventually went to a play system where each person controlled two characters instead of one, giving us more freedom to explore other classes with less fear of instantly losing your one and only precious character.

[@DnDOldGuard]

BECMI Solved the Magic-User problem with optional rules that, IMHO, make BECMI superior to other OG D&D games, and most of the OSR.

[@russellharrell2747]

⁠@@DnDOldGuardHolmes basic let MUs scribe spells on scrolls at 100gp per spell level…at class level one. It’s probably worth a party’s starting gold to let the MU scribe a scroll or two,

[@DnDOldGuard]

@@russellharrell2747 Yup. And I was talking about Weapon Mastery. A great system that is very easy and intuitive.

[@spellboy]

I feel like this series of videos will serve as a sort of archive that curious historians stumble upon decades from now and marvel at the curiosities that is the relatively obscure sub-genre that is OSR D&D.

[@thanesgames9685]

With unlimited magic items, it was having a sword for every occasion that helped the fighter shine. A sword caddy helped, and was fun to bring along. The rules for fighters also let them build strongholds earlier than most, and get a retinue. This was a big part of 1st edition. The old rules were very clunky as well. Spell casters ran out of power quickly, and in a long adventure, more conflicts needed to resolved without opening up with the big guns else there would be nothing left for the boss. No cantrips often left spell casters hiding with a cross bow, though wands became very powerful quickly as well.

[@SusCalvin]

One use for spare magical weapons was to outfit goons. As a level 6 fighter you probably have a couple level 2-4 goons around. These blokes are just as good with a magic spear as you were at that level, and can hold the line properly. Weapon limitations limted spellcasters even more. In some OSR games, MUs can fight with all weapons but they fight like a level 0 man-at-arms, and fighters are the only ones with an attack bonus. In old D&D, wizards were the sling or dart dudes at the back. The retinue and the stronghold, where the fighter rules an entire hex of the map with several villages, a few towns, a stronghold and a castle city etc plus their entire companies of men-at-arms is a hint on what end game role fighters have. You are the local baron now.

[@SusCalvin]

Fighters have one depleting resource, their hp. Any fighter that starts to run low on hp will join the wizard without spell slots in strongly suggesting the patrol heads back to camp. When hp is one of your primary resources, the rules for healing also figure in. In OD&D, healing is slow. A fighter can rest and spend downtime getting three or so hp back, healing 35 lost hp is going to take a while. Hiring a healer, using spells and other means affect this. In other games, healing is more generous and fighters might bounce back after a single night. Being able to use all weapons allows you to not specialize. Fighters can always use the weapons for the situation. A fighter can switch to a knife if they lose their sword, they can unsling a crossbow and shoot a bloke, they can have a brace of pistols and open combat with a salvo. Any time you think "My build is weapon x", you forget that your "build" is every single dang weapon. A fighter can pick up and figure out a BAR if you happen to find one. Sometimes the situation needs two blokes up front and two more with spears behind them, if you are the third toughest fighter in a group chances are you will pull spear duty. Sometimes you ping people across a hall with crossbows, then you can do that. Choosing the weapon of the day should be the fighter equivalent of choosing spells. Pick what will work in the greater formation. 2nd ed fighters are signified by their proficiencies for me. Proficiencies in weapons meant perks but also locking yourself into a build. Fighters who want to get good wil typically specialize in 2-3 weapons. Fighters still have the smallest penalty for using a weapon with no proficiency, but all their investments in crossbow proficiencies go out the window whe they find a BAR. Everyone gets xp to do their schtick, and the schtick of fighters is to fight. You get more xp for fighting and defeating high-HD things. Non-weapon proficiencies are also made into a class deal, fighters will have more basic survival and strength skills. 2nd ed always tooled around with kits, that was the way to make a variant class with different proficiencies and the odd ability. Name level fighters were the ones who became landed nobility. You were the ones who could raise entire armies by the company and rule a whole hex of the campaign map with the help of your former adventuring mates. It is a small hint at the social role of fighters, that your role at name level is to be the local baron.

[@EarlofChutney]

The prevalence of magic items, in particular swords in 3LLBs D&D is quite important to their role and balance. In a world without thieves finding a magic sword that locates hidden doors is quite important. Equally they are more important if the party is in a large dungeon and resting to recover spells is quite difficult. However given that most campaigns dont work like this I think they do benefit from a slight buff in their abilities as the campaign progresses.

[@nneisler]

A world without thieves is a strange world indeed

[@bigblue344]

the whole fighter VS wizard balance issue I think is more of a modern issue with how modern DM's hesitate to kill of PC's and players getting too invested in their characters and how the main drawback of wizards is their low HP pool as well as guerilla tactics being used against players isn't really a thing that happens all that often anymore.

[@evendur7162]

Eh it's more so that Fighter/Martials all they do is "I move, I attack, end turn" with no real variety in combat, this is especially the case in 5e.

[@RuiSaltao]

I always gravitated towards the more martial characters, so I love fighters. I don't think they are boring, but it's perhaps easier to fall in the trap of only doing one thing - fighting, which can get boring. Also, if all you know is a hammer, then every problem will look like a nail. But D&D is arguably better when engenuity and shenanigans are preferred to fighting, and the strong man/experienced warrior archetype is also useful and fun in these cases. I think you may have glossed over the fact that only fighters can use magical swords. That can be significant, even on a campaign level. It's a common trope and therefore perhaps easier, or even more common to be used in fantasy gaming. Another great video in the series. I'm loving it! Keep 'em coming.

[@rangerlemure]

Thanks, great comments. I think perhaps an episode on Magic Swords is in order sometime.

[@RuiSaltao]

@@rangerlemure would love that!

[@coldwarrior78]

I love fighters because they are the core of the adventure. Yes you need theives and wizards but the bulk of the party is always fighters. I really like Rangers from 1st and 2d edition, they are so me. Paladins are a fun challenge as well. Having an Army background, we always saw wizards as combat multipliers. Not just with combat spells either. Creative use of Enlarge, Entangle, or Fog have been critical to oarty success and make for memorable games.

[@SusCalvin]

After a while you learn that level 1-3 wizards are not doing their best by plinking off Magic Missile. The crew figured out that a simple Darkness spell could direct the flow of combatants. Few people are entirely willing to rush into compact darkness, people would usually be delayed a short moment. Anything that can open and block movement is great. Charm and Sleep are nasty.

[@cartert2]

It’s called a roleplaying game. So if you create a good character concept for a fighter and role play them accordingly the fighter class can be very fun. The simplicity of the fighter allows more room to concentrate on roleplaying. As for skills you can always drop the skills system from Rules Cyclopedia into any OSR game with little to no tweaking. But the good thing about Old School games is they don’t really require a skill system. If your fighter or any character for that mater, wants to try something have them make the appropriate ability check, this along with role playing will take care of skills. As far as it being good that newer systems have given the fighter more options I would say yes. It’s always good if a fighter has a bag of tricks. If you want to add a few options to an OSR fighter it would be easy to do. Use the examples given in 0 edition and the RC then tweak them as needed.

[@Arcboltkonrad13]

Would love to see you do a review of Basic Fantasy RPG

[@FelipeVerdugodaSilva]

The sheer amount of possibilities one can have when creating Fighter characters always attracted me. What D&D lacks for me is mechanics or items for Fighters to use agaibst magic. A shield that protects from spells or a fire dragon's breath. A sword that absorbs a lightning bolt when pointed skywards amd shoots at its user. A magical boomerang that always hits a specific part and comes back to its user, etc.

[@SusCalvin]

You're assumed to be part of a section or patrol, with some dozen other people. One of them will have spells that can negate other spells. The defence against spells is to shoot the wizard in the face with a crossbow.

[@playerextremebr1.027]

Fighting Capacity if for Duels and Mass Combats

[@Sanguivore]

And Fighting Capacity equates to a number of attacks equal to your level against enemies of *3* HD or less, correct?

[@playerextremebr1.027]

@@Sanguivore correct

[@Sanguivore]

@@playerextremebr1.027 Excellent, thank you!