How Ford Screwed The Pooch On What SHOULD Have Been The Greatest Musclecar Engine Ever

[@haworthlowell805]

Bob Glidden who?

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Roy Hill, Ricky Smith what?

[@haworthlowell805]

@@UncleTonysGarage No kidding, but Glidden gets a lot of credit, especially in 500 inch NHRA for making that engine come alive. His side trips to IHRA races aren't bad either; till he got scared by that turbo 6 banger! LOL

[@UncleTonysGarage]

I was at Darlington with a Funny Car the night Bill Kuhlmann ran his 202, and I remember having a hard time focusing on our car while that race for 200 was going on. Buddy Ingersol was my favorite to crack the barrier. Ricky Smith and Glidden looked like they had it but each fell juuuuust short, and then out of nowhere that white Camaro pulls into the water and laid down the most savage sounding doorslammer burnout I had ever heard. I knew it was gonna be spectacular, so I grabbed my camera (I worked for Cars Illustrated magazine too at the time) and ran to the far end of the photographers area. He was staging, and there was no room to stand in the penned off section, so I hopped over the guardrail, ran about 20 feet down track, crouched down and thumbdrived the whole run. I got the launch good, a few blurry pan shots, and then a clean one just as the scoreboard lit. It's hard to believe that was like 37 years ago, but I remember it like it happened last night. That event BTW is what I consider the true birth of Pro Mod. The class had been around for a while at that point, and it was interesting for sure, but from that night forward it stole the thunder from Pro Stock, and never looked back.

[@haworthlowell805]

@@UncleTonysGarage Yes, that was amazing. Also sold a ton of N2O to everybody.

[@williamstamper442]

Hey Tony do you remember Andy Mannarino? (spelling?) He has some great pro stock stories of that era and from what I hear he is still alive and kicking hard here in Detroit. He had a website and a very small youtube channel I believe, but recent search just came up with old vids that just happen to have him in it. If you could get ahold of Andy I bet he has all kinds of podcast kinda stuff to say. In regards to burnouts by pro stocks in the 80s, for me the baddest ass sounding pro stock door car of that era was Lee Shepherd in the Reher/Morrison car. His stuff used to send shivers down my spine during the burnout! U.S. nationals 1980-1984 went to every race. When I heard that big block chev rev to the moon I came a running, if I wasn't already there! I love Glidden, rip, but his stuff always sounded like a conservative tune up to me. I know that's not the case, just my own personal thoughts.

[@jpjautotech7622]

I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this, but the Boss 429 was pioneering in two very important ways you didn’t mention. It was the first production engine in America with individual shaft mounted rockers, and the Holley Dominator carb was originally designed for it. It was way ahead of its time from an engineering standpoint in so many ways.

[@edge2sword186]

It was on the cover of Hot Rod magazine in the mid 60's but they released it in 1969 for racing . Smokey had 3 early versions he was developing back then .

[@patrickwendling6759]

Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸

[@chadhaire1711]

and yet it got its ass beat on the street...hhhahahahaha

[@edge2sword186]

@@chadhaire1711 They detuned that engine for the street ,I agree but the Hemi came up 75 hp down on the super speedway so thwy built a body to stay competitive in NASCAR and still didn't win everything with it .

[@freedomfighter5054]

And also, I think he forgot NASCAR it was band the first year. It came out after one year they banned it too fast.

[@billfioretti3013]

Tony, your generally right and I agree with most everything you've said here. I've built and owned Boss 429's stock and modified. My former drag-racing partner, Ed Prout, held N.H.R.A. National Records running these engines. Similar to Jon Kaase, I've built a long-time business around this engine but with the original cars. They CAN run well on the street or at the dragstrip if not approached as you would a Chevrolet or Chrysler. They have idiosyncrasies that need to be addressed so their strengths can be realized. B.T.W. We've had both the street-Hemi and Boss 429 properly tuned, with only changes in cam and exhaust, on the dyno. The Boss was better than the Chrysler by some 30 horsepower. Ford designed and built the Boss'9 to win in NASCAR. Which it did. On Fuel and at smaller displacements they were and generally in a word, dismal. Connie Kalitta HATED them. For the most part, the auto-buying public dissed them. The street version was hampered by Ford's N.V.H. and other "passenger-car" driveability standards. Did you know that Ford would not install its premium "Detroit-Locker" and 428 available 4:30 rear gear in the street Boss 429 Mustang because "It was too noisy." The Boss 302, with it's Cleveland-style cylinder heads came equipped from the factory with a 780cfm Holley and 2.5" H-pipe exhaust. The Boss 429? A smaller 735 Holley a smaller 2.25" H-pipe exhaust. Ford engineers have a history of limited attention spans in respect to engine design and development. They never cared to develop or tap it's potential before moving onto something else. Except for NASCAR, some sad early history here. But thanks to guys like Bob Glidden and now Jon Kaase and other supporters, the engine garners more respect today than it did back when it was new. And you're right, you can make a killing on those o-ring head sets! Keep up the good and relatable work, Tony!

[@edge2sword186]

I remember talking with Ed Prout many years ago at Sanair in Quebec and I think he won . He was the first to make the Boss 9 a winner way back then .

[@Ecosse57]

great insight. thanks!

[@bobkonradi1027]

You can "thank" Ford's NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) people for turning sliced bread into turds. Oh, what a difference a few years made. I had a 1966 Fairlane with the "427 Race Car Package" dual quad 427, 324 degree cam, fiberglass hood, transistor ignition, disc branes, 3.89 gears, 31 spline axles, etc. I drove it 31,000+ miles on the street, it was a spectacular car, yet only 3 years later they brought out the emasculated Boss 429 Mustangs that would be lucky to outrun grandma's 1960 Falcon with its straight 6.

[@tomp1612]

@@bobkonradi1027 Bob, a friend of mine had one too, raced from new and another local guy drove it seldom on the streets in the 70's. Another friend bought it last year. It's the one that sold on Bring a Trailer. If the Boss had been like that. Manual steering and brakes, a real cam, maybe Ford's new Dominator carb.... would have raced against the Hemi Darts and Barracudas in SS/A.

[@genehart261]

I guess that Ford was trying to build a "gentleman's hot rod" to compete with the Olds 442 and Buick Grand Sport.

[@danielmarek4609]

What I remember hearing about the Boss 429 engines back in the late 70's, early 80's, was they were sluggish on the street version due to the intake runners being so large the fuel could precipitate out of suspension. That caused the burn to be dirtier and with that would have been tough to meet the new emission standards that were on the horizon. Someone I went to high school with, in about 1980, took a clean 69 Mustang fastback that originally had a straight 6. He cut the shock towers for more room and bought an original Boss 429 out of a totaled original B9 car. He rebuilt it with 12.5:1 compression, tunnel ram and 2 Holley Dominators on top. It had the original 4-speed out of the totaled donor B9 parts car and locker rear end. He had zero problem pulling the front end off the ground, though he did it with wrinkle wall slicks in back on the street and wheelie bars. That ended when he was caught pulling a wheelie the night after I saw him do it, really late, on the street. He did have the engine setup dyno'd back then and said it made about 900 HP. The Boss 429 worked much better with more cubic inches which brought the air/fuel mix through the intake at a higher velocity. Headers also helped. It was just an engine that Ford put in a "few" Mustangs so they could say it was a street engine and be allowed to race in NASCAR. In the early 80's while they were a little more, a few thousand, than a 428CJ car they weren't as sought after. They were thought of as a odd ball engine with no head gaskets that was expensive to maintain. Wrong yes but that's what I remember of that era and those cars.

[@James-ik8yz]

My buddy used them and 460 ad Boat ancores and cars. For Insurance scam 😂

[@shamusmcswiggins5708]

You touched on it at the end, but I can’t believe you didn’t even mention BOB GLIDDEN’s domination using this motor! RIP Bob……..

[@suntzu5836]

I did!

[@michaelking550]

10 x world Champion!!

[@danielparker4698]

& not to mention how them big block Chevy guys were saying how in the hell is he taking that 351-C & beating out 454 big blocks! ❤️

[@albertheidger645]

Robert Yates worked for Holman & Moody at time of the development of this motor. Said in comments about the program that it was the best motor program he had worked in for a OEM race engine. At time on the track(nascar) they ran a single new Holley dominator carb. Seventies they made them go to 2 barrel carbs so the 358 small blocks could compete. Wood brothers ran them a while, but eventually had to go with the flow.

[@TL-angzarr]

​@@danielparker4698 that's ignorant, the little blocks were winning in prostock at the time due to the weight per c.i. rule. It sure wasn't that Clevelands were good either, everyone forgets that the year that Ford didn't want to pay Glidden he raced a plymouth arrow and won the championship. The magic was Bob not the name on the valve covers

[@GeekGinger]

The engine definitely needed to be in a Torino. That's what they raced in anyway! I've never understood why they went in Mustangs.

[@DanEBoyd]

IIRC they used the Mustang to help homologate the engine for the Torino. Think they needed to sell 2000 engines in cars, but didn't make it the first year, and the rules were waived or something.

[@billfioretti3013]

Image. Ended-up lacking street cred. Was undoubtedly visibly stunning.

[@howabouthetruth2157]

Smokey Yunick hated the big block Mustangs, saying they were the most nose-heavy and dangerous cars on the road. He stated that if ya tried to race against most anything else on a road course or even on the street ( NOT drag racing in a straight line ) approaching turns, you would most certainly wind up in a ditch or even worse, flip or hit a tree with the big block Mustangs, because all of that weight in the nose wouldn't allow the car to turn at higher speeds. Even Carroll Shelby was dead-set against dropping a big block in the Shelby Cobra's, but Ford had the money and insisted that he make it work. He stated a small block in the Cobra's and Mustang's would run circles around the same cars equipped with big blocks on road courses........for the same reasons that Yunick stated.

[@ronaldrey8474]

You mean Maverick or Falcon ? 🙄

[@ronaldrey8474]

​@@howabouthetruth2157remember Sat. morning car shows (LEGENDARY MOTORSPORTS) from Canada ? They did a 1970 stock big block challenge with Boss , LS-6, Hemi , GS & GTO. 1/4 mile , cones , breaking & best burnouts. Look it up here on KZbin. FYI... Boss won. I wanted LS-6 to win 😢✌️

[@glennnickerson8438]

Next to the Hemi, a Boss 429 was the coolest looking engine ever made. While it had a lot of streetable problems, Ford really did a lot of over the top things with their engines. You had the Side Oiler, The Cammer, Boss 302 early FE blocks with multiple carburation and SBF stuff too. I think it was a victim of everything all muscle cars would suffer from in just a few short years with governmental regulations, the insurance industry and the looming gas crisis... But what a time it was to be alive! 😎

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Plus the stock 1965 Chevy 327" with 375 HP... and stock 1967 BBC 427" L88 with 560 HP... available for sale to everybody...

[@univalve1]

man that Boss9 is way better looking than the chrysler Hemi, those valve covers put it over the top, although the slanted dizzy is cool on the mopar

[@glennnickerson8438]

@@univalve1 I'm a Ford guy univalve and the Boss 429 was the engine I always dreamed of! It's just I've seen more Hemi's in person. I've only seem one Boss 429 in my life but I remember it well! 😎

[@chrismoher5444]

It was to advanced and the boss 429 option from that time period was limited. At time when options were all the rage hampered sales of the car its self. Ford always love to have an excellent car than shut them down. Boss 302 and boss 429 to great examples of greatness that was shut down to early.

[@zakuraayame5091]

Customs and Classics by Kiwi is one hell of a shop

[@NoFox_Given]

Jon Kaase… the man that Dominated engine masters so badly humiliating everyone else… that they outlawed the use of modular engines and made a separate class

[@ernestjohnson1807]

If you know much about head and cam design you know. When the cam is on top of the engine you have more room for intake runners. It about competition. But we know how Ford fanboys like lie to themselves.

[@NoFox_Given]

@@ernestjohnson1807 so what your saying is it’s superior design ? I guess my response would be why not everyone do it and the engine that many consider to be the best hot rod engine of our time (LS) uses pushrods still and the heads flow pretty well.

[@antilaw9911]

Kasse got humiliated by dandy Dick Landy in engine shootout with Ford, chev, and mopar. Kasse said his 460 was going to annihilate the mopar and chev. Landys mopar was the smallest cubes and shamed both of them! Look it up. I still have those special magazines I saved. Hot rod. Engine masters.

[@NoFox_Given]

Google doesn’t show it, what year? I can’t find a year Landy beat him

[@John_Buck]

​@@antilaw9911 Which year? I can't seem to find anything about Landy shaming anyone.

[@pete540Z]

Tony, never think that at least some of us mind you going into total geek mode with historical, technical info like this for more than your typical 10-16 minutes. I don't have a short attention span. I DO have a desire to hear stuff like this.

[@SWResto]

KIWI always has cool stuff glad to see Tony push KIWI's KZbin channel!

[@jonathangehman4005]

In about 1978, my neighbor Danny's older brother Robert bought a '67 Fairlane that someone had stuffed a Boss 429 in. The car was ROUGH, I don't remember much about the car except a Mr. Gasket shifter with a Hurst knob, sunburnt black paint, and an interior that looked like a multi-car crash happened INSIDE the car. I was a a 13 yr old Mopar guy and I knew almost nothing about those Boss motors, the only experience I had with them was building a 1/25 scale Wood Bros. Purolater Mercury that I always displayed a fender behind my "real" Hemi #43 Charger model. If it wasn't for the unique valve cover I wouldn't have had a clue about that engine. Over the years I've wondered how it got in that Fairlane, how much Robert paid for it, and what happened to it after they gave up on trying to get it to keep running. He couldn't have paid much. He was a high school senior from a working class family and only had a high school kids kind of job. I remember about 4 or 5 guys messing around with it for about a month, it would start but not run, but after a while, it wouldn't even do that. It disappeared and a late model F150 longbed on chrome wagonwheels showed up, and we never saw the Fairlane again. That was my first brush with mythical Fords

[@jamesgeorge4874]

The 427 Cammer timing chain was nearly 6 feet long, that is a lot of mass/inertia and stack up tolerance.

[@tomschauman4960]

I’m a diehard BBC guy….but I have to admit…those are beautiful motors!

[@sombra6153]

A great video explaining the history of the Boss 429. Everything I have understood was that Ford’s focus for the Boss 429 was for the track, not on the street. It was expensive to produce and probably didn’t, in the opinions of their accountants, justify much investment for a consumer version much beyond the de tuned motors offered in the Boss 429 manufactured to meet NASCAR requirements. The motor was designed to fit in a Torino engine bay, and the Mustang required structural modifications to get it to fit. That Ford also planned for and offered a 429 CJ that was obviously designed at the same time and offered in 70 and 71 models testifies that Ford didn’t intend for a big production run. Ford pulled out of factory backed racing in 1970 and spent the following decade not really caring if a Blue Oval was in the winner’s circle despite strong showings from loyal knights of the realm. Ford has had a history of not necessarily reading the tea leaves like GM and Chrysler and reacting more than being innovative.

[@rescuedandrestoredgarage]

I think it is one of the most beautiful engines ever made. Great information, gentlemen.

[@markanderson2145]

"This Plane of Existence". Classic. You never fail to make me smile. Humble Thanks.

[@1PacificRedwood]

Regarding the slant 6, try rotating the carburetor 90 degrees on the manifold so that the primary side is facing the car's left fender. This way you'll likely get better fuel distribution which may solve some of the flat power response you're getting at the strip. The factory intake manifold could also be ditched for a more performance oriented manifold from AussieSpeedUSA. These guys have custom aftermarket parts for the slant 6 including a pair of cast iron tubular headers which then bolt to a third piece (manifold) which is bolted to the intake manifold, but the key with this setup is you'll have more heat available to the intake manifold to atomize the mixture. But try rotating the carb 90 degrees first and see what happens.

[@doxnoogle5782]

Ford has always been the biggest innovator in the game, surpassed only by their own ability to shoot themselves in the foot. The Boss 9 heads are just optimized a bit from stock, stronger rocker mounts, and standard 385 bolt pattern instead of the factory boss pattern. Jewlery indeed.

[@kronk9418]

Chrysler has been the biggest innovator. Who sent astronauts to the moon and built main battle tanks for 50 years? It wasn’t Ford nor GM.

[@doxnoogle5782]

lol whatever you say fiat. A good year for chrysler was not worrying about bankruptcy let alone bringing innovation. Their most associated gimmick wasnt even developed by them. @@kronk9418

[@donreinke5863]

@@kronk9418 Chrysler did come up with many interesting inventions, such as turbine power for cars, innovative transmission designs and the first electronic fuel injection. They just werent very good at making things work reliably. Their fuel injection would stop working if driven in proximity to a fairly large neon sign. Rather than work out the issues of electromagnetic interference, they gave up and sold the design and intellectual property to Robert Bosch, who DID "work out the bugs" The rest..is history.

[@cmintsurfer]

Outstanding explanation on how the 3 brands were so close in big block design. Imagine if the original designers saw what those engines grew into by the 1980s.

[@tombryant1104]

Would be nice if you knew what you were talking about. The Boss 429 smog pump, 735 carb etc was used to allow engine to pass emissions(we ain't talking 1965 here). WITHOUT SMOG APPROVAL, there would have been no Boss 429 Mustangs or any other model with same.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

That's what he said... also, 735 carb. good to 500 HP, so plenty big enough...

[@peterburrascano8159]

He didn't say there weren't reasons for it, just that it was dumb to do it, when Chrysler and GM weren't doing it to their big motors.

[@crautoguy8384]

Tony please don't ever stop Rambling on about your knowledge of all of these different engines And the history I live for this stuff And I watch your channel because I get these little nuggets of Knowledge that Only a true enthusiast has been around for a long time hahaha Old man I listen to every word you were saying about the history of these engines Always been curious about them You Explained almost everything I wanted to know I'm gonna keep building small and big block Chevy's Cause I'm a Chevy guy Thank you for the education

[@henryyunick3433]

It seems if you have an original Boss 429, it just best for display. From what i have read, the originals had week heads that liked to warp alot. Also they had to go on a Boss 429 block only, because of the oil passages ? Jon Kaase fixed all that, and you can use a plain old block out of a truck... I remember as a teen about 1978 seeing some Boss 429 engines in the local paper for sale, complete but in boxes. I know i wanted them, but didnt have any money. I saw alot of things like that for sale, but back then nobody cared.... Once again Tony, great video !

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Actually there's a local guy with an orange Boss 429 Mustang that drives it to our car shows/cruises and all over the place... it's no 'trailer queen'... car is in 'driver' condition...

[@bunning63]

Always a surprise when you tell people overhead cams, multiple valves and hemi combustion chambers have been around for over a hundred years. Bit like the time I told some young uns about the use of nitrous and turbos and supercharging in WW2, they thought it was invented by Fast&Furious.

[@kirstenspencer3630]

Don't forget water injection on ww2 aircraft.

[@LordSamuelJ]

I have a supercharged 57 goldenhawk Studebaker. Its fun watching people's faces when I tell them its a factory supercharged v8.

[@sugarnads]

Peugeot had twin cam 4 valve per cylinder in like 1927 or near.

[@kirstenspencer3630]

@@sugarnads yes mr kwako you are correct. Had a technical drawing of the motor on my office wall in 1974. I belive the posters are still in print and available today.

[@midnyte_ryder]

Still today the two stroke Detroit diesels I saw that were in an ancient earth mover, are super-turbo engines meaning they have a roots type blower AND a turbocharger just so it can run well. I almost fell over when I was told this by my heavy equipment teacher as I was in a program at the time. I always think of “unique” things and then I remember that if I just thought it, it was already thought of a million times before 😂. Thing is we forget more than we remember so it’s easy to think you’re some pioneer. You will know when or if you cross that line.

[@michaelsullivan2361]

Good video! As a lifelong Ford fan, the Boss 9 has always given me heartburn. So much potential lost, for the reasons you describe. How did the same company that released the Boss 302, that knocked it out of the park in 69, intentionally strangle a world beater with its big block stablemate? Ford (and to a lesser extent, Mopar) favored exotic engines to win races. And were incredibly successful. Ford: Indy DOHC 427 Tunnel port 427 SOHC BOSS 429 Mopar: Max wedge 426 Hemi It was a Ford and Mopar game at the circle tracks and the quarter mile from 63 - 72. But (especially in Ford’s case) it rarely transferred to the street. Think about it. It took Bob Tasca, to dig into the parts bin and show Ford how to make a volume production street winner! Just when Ford had it figured out, and released the 335 and 385 series, poof! The performance era was over! Too bad! Those two platforms would have dominated the streets and the track.

[@Horrible_Deplorable]

I agree about the 385 series. My favorite engines and they're finally starting to get a real good aftermarket. I had always hoped for would bring back the 460 with all the new tech in fuel, air and combustion. Kaase makes Boss 9 heads for the BBF. Would love to get my hands on a pair to slap onto a 557 stroker or bigger.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

For lawsuit reasons, Ford didn't want the street Boss 429 to have any more actual power than the Boss 302/351... and Chevy hid the L88 427's under a fake HP rating... same with Boss 302/DZ 302 HP ratings...

[@jamesburrows2751]

The Mopar hemi came out in 1952 or 3. Which came first?!😂

[@markszczepaniak5888]

Uncle Tony, I am a mopar guy but enjoyed the history lesson on that boss Ford motor. You could of talked for an hr and I would of watched it all. Great job on the history lesson, which you can cover more on different makes, and it would great content.

[@hiitsstillme]

We're glad someone finally laid out the truth about these engines. We collect vintage automotive periodicals, and can say from much reading that back in the day, these engines in stock form were not considered a high-performance engine. It was suggested that a well-tuned 340, or Z/28 302 could easily take one out. Hot Rod magazine did a complete dyno test on what I think was an early S-code version. The best they could get out of it (with no mods except headers and removed air cleaner) was 375 bhp. The article stated part of the problem lied with Ford Engineering. Every car/engine application they built, had to conform to certain drivability issues. It had to start, and warm up efficiently on a cold day, had to idle smoothly, and it could not be too noisy. In other words, it had to get grandma to church on Sunday morning... just like a Mercury Grand Marquis would. Ford soon realized it was lacking, thus the solid lifter T-code was born. It was slightly better, but still no street brawler. There was a Ford publication released, explaining how to modify the B'9 for racing. If you did these and a few other mods, you might end up with something that will put you in the high 11's - low 12's on a drag strip... still not competitive in the big-league Pro Stock class of the day. Guys like Bill Jenkins and Ronnie Sox were cutting a wide swath into the low 10's- high 9 second range by then. It wasn't until the early '80's when engine builders like Jon Kaase and drag racer Bob Glidden figured out what these engines needed to really perform... lots more cubes!

[@sombra6153]

I wish I had still had all those magazines I bought back during the 80s and 90s when interest in 1st a generation Mustangs was on the rise.

[@2HacksGarage]

I know where there are few boss 429s, they have been sitting apart since the early 80s. They are reasonably priced but just not in the cards right now. Would be cool to build and put in my 68 Thunderbird and call it boss bird, but a famous farmer drag racer used that name on a wicked trans am funny car in 1970 and his was truly the boss bird!

[@jamescameron6819]

ThunderBoss?

[@SpeedyG289]

History lesson. Thanks UTG.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

There's a local guy with an orange Boss 429 Mustang that drives it to our car shows/cruises and all over the place... it's no 'trailer queen'...

[@jessicawells5145]

My dad was raised in the Mississippi Delta in a town called Cleveland,one his friends had a Shelby gt500, his dad was a doctor,he ordered a new yellow 69 boss 429,he was so disappointed with it's performance he got a lawyer made the dealer take it back and give him his old Shelby back,

[@gadsdenconsulting7126]

Can y'all imagine if Uncle Tony never had a KZbin channel? I'll never build a race engine, nor will I ever likely buy an old Mopar street car, but I love listening to the wealth of experience and knowledge that never stops flowing from Uncle Tony. Thanks for sharing all that you do, UT!

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Ah, go ahead and dip your toe into car building...

[@gadsdenconsulting7126]

@@BuzzLOLOL with my limited budget, I sled pull my '04 Cummins. My buddy and I turn wrenches on it. I do dig Mopar, and I'd love to tackle a build someday 👍👍

[@gadsdenconsulting7126]

@lAcid Rainl Just ask my wife 🤣

[@d.e.b.b5788]

Love hanging out with mechanics with mad skills. It's how I learned more about fixing things than anything in classes.

[@jeremyjc1978]

I love the history of these engines. Thank you! And thank you Kiwi for your induct and knowledge as well!

[@suntzu5836]

Awesome Tony! Graduated high school in 1980 and had a running argument with one of my buds (Had 69 SS396 Nova) who had beat a Boss 429. In 84 we were at the Spring Nationals and Bob Glidden Thunderbird Boss 429 (500) smoked the Rhere Morrison Camaro....Ending years of frustration😆

[@chrishensley6745]

Ol basic 396 chev nova was hard to handle for the cost and hard to bet man on the street.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

As was the earlier 350 HP 327" Chevy II / Nova...

[@suntzu5836]

@@BuzzLOLOL 😏...😴

[@Mr9501]

IHRA started the mountain motors a few years before NHRA in 1982 came out with their set of rules….don’t forget, Ronnie Sox won the 1981 IHRA mountain motor IHRA pro stock class in Dean Thompson’s mustang

[@danfarris135]

I always wondered why the 429 went into the Mustang also. They weren’t racing Mustangs in NASCAR at the time. Torinos and Cyclones were the norm.

[@Turbo4Joe363]

So that BOSS 429 Mustangs would sell for crazy money at MECUM. 😂

[@AtZero138]

Uncle Tony visits the Kiwi Cabinet Shop ..

[@PresidentSkroob12345]

Anyone remember the "Boss Mustang" that Ford built in the 90s? It was an SN-95 body with a big-cube fuel injected Boss built by Roush. One of the car mags had a shootout between that Mustang and a 4th gen Camaro built by Chevy with a 632ci big block. If i remember right the Ford just barely edged out the Camaro.

[@michaelbower2117]

I still have that magazine.

[@jamesblair9614]

You know your audience, and when their attention will start to wander, good for you, there's a beer company out there that forgot who they serve.

[@aspalovin]

Kiwi's Playhouse

[@thethrottlecracker]

Oh I just got it! Lol great show!

[@strokermaverick]

😂

[@dirtyburd71]

Get outta bed and pull yourself up a chair! 😂

[@ROYALPRIX]

OMG missed opportunity

[@tomreyn3610]

Whoa! Thinkin the same thing Jambi !

[@joewolfe642]

No lie - i immediately knew that you were going to be taking about the boss 429 when i seen just the title for the video. Those engines are the most underrated engines of that era imo. I would hate to work on a 69/70 mustang that has one though - there is literally no space between the towers and the engine everything is so crammed in there.

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Back in the late 80's I knew where a Boss 429 Mustang sat in a garage. The only thing done to it was a custom larger radiator installed.

[@motorol5610]

Someone at ford experimeted with 3x2 and 2x4 intakes for the boss 429 street engines S and T versions ,featured in early super ford magazine

[@richdiscoveries]

I love anything automotive history. I've made a video maybe two of of abandoned vehicles I found in the woods, but one day I would love to have a quarter of the knowledge Steve mags has. Thank you for this engine history video, extremely interesting

[@672egalaxie6]

Brilliant video Tony!! It's one thing to dedicate a lifetime to mastering a craft. It's quite another to share that wealth of knowledge with others. Thanks for turnin on the camera Tony. I haven't looked forward to Sunday nights since I was a kid anticipating the "Wonderful World of Disney" ps shout out to Kiwi-bro, your work is outstanding!!

[@martinsuter3531]

I know it's not going into it, but that custom fastback Couger *NEEDS* that 600 inch Kasse Boss motor!!!

[@jasonhaney4319]

Jon kasse I worked next to his shop winder GA Jon and cliff are good people

[@davidchristopher5976]

The boss 429 at first, had a problem with the rocker arms. My friend Gerald Geary fixed it for them, when ford approached him to race this engine for them. Soon as he fixed it, they got rid of him.

[@missedthird6466]

Ha ha lol Im half way through this and had to comment ,here is a perfect example why Uncle Tony does not like to talk cars with strangers, this man is spouting knowledge that is stored in his tiny head and just doesnt have much more room for more! Unrehearsed unbiased (maybe) pure knowlegde. Nice download UT!

[@MrGGPRI]

My bro-in-law (non-mechanic) bought new a 1969 Boss 429. He eventually brought it over to have me drive it as he thought it needed a bit of “tunning” so off we went. Now, my DD was a ’32 Roadster with an 345ci bored Olds with locked dual-quad AFBs and loads of $$ parts all balanced by Vic Edelbrock Sr. and was damm fast but still as I was getting into that Boss 429 I tried to stay calm. The test drive was in an industrial area and with the hair on the back of my neck out straight, I slammed it and-well not much happened. Of course at the time we were unaware of all the detuning done to the 429 and also this was a California car which may have even detuned it more. Also with a MASSIVE weight up front it handled like my ’32 which was not very good. I suggested to my bro-in-law to find a dyno tuner that could help that 429 out; he never did and just lived with it likely because his wife did not like the purchase and eventually divorced him. He sold it a few years later for ~$4k..

[@kidsteach938]

Thanks Tony! Apparently in Nascar, the Boss 429 outperformed the Chrysler Hemi, ( which had been dominating up to then)...and probably a big part of that might have been the Holley Dominator 4500 carb, which debuted on the Boss engine.

[@Daniel-fd3wp]

In the long run the Hemi wins because it has to breathe. 👍

[@chrishensley6745]

@@Daniel-fd3wp Yep.....that was how the heads/engine was designed on them long runs breathing DEEP and getting rid of DEEP!

[@edge2sword186]

The 427 Tunnelport won 3 Daytona 500's in a row and 2 drivers championships in a row . Petty drove for Ford until Chrysler built a body to.make up for the lack of hp.of the Hemi .

[@edge2sword186]

Mickey Thompson knew the trick with the Cammer and Ohio George beat everybody with the Cammer and the Boss . Andretti got the All aluminum 494 Can Am engine . They should have given the 494 to Gurney .

[@h.r.puffnstuff8705]

The Boss should have the edge. It’s a newer design and the design/ R&D budget was bottomless. The Gen2 Hemi didn’t have those things going for it yet came out on top in the end.

[@ronaldrey8474]

Remember Legendary Motorsport in Canada (Peter Klute) They did stock Big block challenge with LS6, Hemi, Boss,GS & GTO . Boss 429 beat them all in 1/4mile ,breaking & burn- outs .hehehe

[@scottsvt9104]

I remember that. Most Chevy and Dodge guys who claimed to run against this car NEVER did. There simply were not enough Boss 429’s in existence to find cruising around or at the drag strip. The Boss 429 had almost the exact same production numbers as the Ferrari F40 with only a little more than 1300 cars total produced. So to claim you ran against and beat Boss 429’s all the time and back in the day is pretty suspicious seeing how most people have never seen a real Boss 429 or Ferrari F40 in person.

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

Boss, Shotgun, Semi-Hemi, Blue Crescent, etc . The original head gaskets were not individual o-rings, but rather small diameter, *gas* filled tubing, probably nitrogen . It never caught on, anywhere else . At least in America . Actually looked like flattened tubing, if you know it's hollow .

[@RipRoaringGarage]

Ive said the same for many years about the 385. It was slated at one point to compete with the Cadillac 500ci, and I think it was meant as a 502ci if not more but that never happened. It is a fast engine though. Loves top speed versus low end, which is ironic considering the amount of torque it has in the Lincolns. (I have two of them. Cruising with one pinky at 150 is unlike anything else)

[@edge2sword186]

Look at the 429 SCJ if you want a fair comparision to the Rat Motor . The Boss 9 is all by itself . I can't see the cross with the Rat and Elephant engines . Anyway you can buy the parts to build a 385 wedge with 1000 hp for almost 1/4 the cost of the Boss 9 . That engine at the shop is tops on someones wish list . If looks count then it wins .

[@midnyte_ryder]

Like dude said….it’s a piece of jewelry and that’s it. Yea it runs like a mf but it’s hard to plant your foot into a mortgage payment and have fun. Spin a bearing in that 😂 or something else dumb and now it’s just doubled in price. No thanks. I already own an Apache 6.4 and literally just dumped 5 grand into a budget valve train build. Started at 2 and somehow managed to get it to 5. Hell of a grocery getter but still I think of what I’d like to do and it’s staring at 10 grand in the face. I’m not running strip or anything so it’s fine with what I did.

[@robertrio1164]

Good content Tony! Love the history of all the different performance motors. Was worth the extra 5-10 minutes. And Kiwi is a great guy for putting up with you lol...

[@Jims_Camera_at_dawn]

Agree. As long as the info is good, don't be counting the minutes.

[@outlawbillionairez9780]

Kiwi's cushions and curtains.

[@graemeburr6463]

Ford guy here from NZ. You are right UT, Ford does do strange things. I've heard the boss 429 was strangled, you explain it well. In my opinion they are the prettiest V8 to ever come out of your country but pretty doesn't always necessary mean go.

[@jamescameron6819]

Love the long format historical stuff tony.

[@mikegillam1000]

“Ford does strange things.” As a Ford fan, I have to admit that’s a true statement. Of course every other manufacturer does as well, but some of Ford’s “what could have been “ moments of the muscle car era are a little more well documented than some others

[@jimkalfakis9893]

We should put that $43k motor in Uncle Tony’s dart. Let’s face it, that’s what everyone wants

[@ryanupchurch9683]

My dad has two boss 429 motors. A super cobra jet and a ghen 2 426 hemi in different hot rods. What you Totally missed is the the street boss 429 was a very different head and intake than the nascar head and intake. The nascar head is a true hemi head with a fomoco no part number dual dominator single plane intake. It’s a beast. The street head is the “semi hemi” or “shotgun hemi” with a single carb intake. That’s the one of the biggest reasons why they were so neutered. My dad has one of each and the heads are very very different in the combustion chamber.

[@The_Kman]

I suscribe to both of your channels! Good engines aren't cheap.👍👍👍

[@2dogsmowing]

Always remember, we're not laugh with you but laughing at you. 😂 Keep up with the great work and I could listen to your story's all day. My dad and uncle (dad's brother) drag raced a 65 impala named Casper. Dad worked at Chrysler uncle worked at Ford. They were very knowledgeable about cars too. An would love listening to their story's about racing or the thought process of how to fix something to go faster. I'm not in the trade myself but I'm very mechanically inclined. An love learning more about car stuff all the time. So thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@davidmccrory5604]

OMG Tony these videos are what I wait for from you absolutely fascinating and in depth basically filling in the gaps about what happened in the day that as I regular gear head from Australia I didn't know. I love love love the way you tell us about the quench area and how It was extremely unfavourable for blown nitro so everyone went down the 426 path and how the big valves and ports only work if you back it up with cubic inches Tony when you talk about such fascinating thing you have my absolute attention attention and keep me begging for more . Keep up the good work son 👍

[@RoyMiller-d8y]

You are a real finger on the pulse type person. I've had to have an accelerated learning curve on a lot of Fords engineering. They were ahead of their time on a lot of stuff( did they know it?). Well said Tony. Love your perspective!🎉

[@optom8au]

I think the insurance and power issues at the time caused Ford to detune the 429. Yes it was a pity that production of the 429 was limited. Great that Jon Kasse kept them alive but the price is steep.

[@randr10]

That's the thing Sherman Sligh said about the Cleveland heads when he mounted them on a 300 I6 (with only 6 cylinders, that worked out to the same as if it was a 400ci V8), that the port sizes were so huge that he couldn't get an engine that small to pull enough air through them fast enough. He filled the intake ports partially with epoxy to get them to pull the air with enough velocity and naturally aspirated made over 600hp in that application. Broke a bunch of NA 6-cylinder drag racing records with it. I think he ran velocity stacks as well with a mechanical fuel injection adapted from I think a Corvette fuelly motor. Don't quote me on that last part though because I can't remember where he pulled those parts from.

[@diegosilang4823]

I read an article from Mustang and Ford dated back in 1996, the FE engines are known to be lazy, so they had a step by step photos of upgrading the FE engine including adding better camshafts.

[@timothygrebe9017]

Tony, I'm a GM fan through and through but I love all things automotive and your sharing of knowledge and trivia is why I love your channel. You give credit where credit is due and criticise where needed. Thanks for the information and entrainment, looking forward to the next video.

[@mcbama6848]

Kiwi engineering is highly underrated

[@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160]

Kiwi ingenuity is a real thing !!!

[@mcbama6848]

@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 agreed mate cheers kiwi ingenuity 🍻

[@DrShankenstein]

As always! Fantastic knowledge! I don't know where you store it all. Love the channel and all the hard work you and Uncle Kathy put into it

[@bradnunn9127]

That's a beautiful motor

[@johnkufeldt3564]

UT, you don't have to try to be funny, natural talent. Cheers from Calgary.

[@oldtimerf7602]

My dream is a boss 429 in a 1969 Fastback sorted out so it runs well. Just a daily driver quality car, not a show car. Because I would drive it every damn day.

[@BuzzLOLOL]

Similar car with a 460 or 400 would be much more attainable...

[@davedemangone6033]

Excellent video! My understanding was the reason for the street Boss 429 was for NASCAR homologation, and not truly for street performance, unlike the 428 CJ, which was instituted for mass production street/strip performance. So, I don;t think the Ford engineers were concentrating on maximizing the Boss 429 performance for street use, as much as just making it street legal and civilized, as best as they could, so it could try and dominate NASCAR. Unfortunately, by the time the Boss was coming of it's age, NASCAR penalized large motors with carburetor restrictor plates, as the cars were now going too fast, and crashing, partly due to lack of tire technology. If you look at the development of engines over the years, you see companies "borrowing designs" from other companies, and the BOSS is no exception. Mopar Big Block heads are updesigned SBC's. Ford's new "passenger" V8's 335 ( 351C) and 385( 429,460) are downscaled and upscaled derivatives of the successful BBC, with short skirts, canted valve heads. Chevy did experiment with hemi heads on their BBC, and even canted valves for the SBC, but they never materialized. The BOSS 429 is one beautiful design, and I came close to getting one many years ago, and mistakenly did not.

[@scottbourret1190]

Have always been interested in the 429. Seems like we were on the cusp of several interesting things before the embargos hit. Thought the Olds W43 got the raw deal. Would like to see someone make those heads to see what may have been possible.

[@midnyte_ryder]

The 442 was a mean mf. My old man told me stories about how his buddy owned one and that kids dad owned a service station…. said tires were free for him and thank god 😂. He said they would go down to a set of bridges we have here and run it up against everything he could and said that thing never lost a race!!! I’ve always been interested in them since then but they are such a gem and if it’s around it’s either not for sale or not worth buying either price or condition. I’d love to stumble onto a barn find or something like that with all original stuff. I know, a boy can dream can’t he? 😂. Anyway, good to see another olds fan in the comments, makes me feel less alone 😛 😊🤘🏻 I have a gen 3 hemi 6.4 currently with a cam and some headers with a tune in my grand Cherokee. Hell of a grocery getter!!!

[@RockymountainRobert]

When I was a kid, I went to a car show back in the 90s, there was a Mach 1 mustand from the 70s there, the guy fired it up, it had a 429 cj in it, I swear you could feel the ground shake standing next to the car, it was loud and sound like a beast!

[@adamhoffman3687]

About 20 years ago a friend of my dad and I had a white boss 429. I think it was no. 632 but I may be wrong. It was a 20,000 mile original car. All intact. I thought it was so cool until he started it. It sounded exactly like a f600 ford dump truck. Kind of a let down. lol. His 69 z28 with the cross ram sounded way better so that's what I got my senior pictures taken with haha.

[@shootermcgavin2819]

I love it when he says that about the big block chevy 💪🏻

[@cyclonecj4285]

More Ford stuff please Uncle Tony. What about the intake port size relative to cubic inches on a Boss 302?

[@outlawbillionairez9780]

Boss 2.23/ 1.71 valves explain why they weren't great street motors. No intake velocity at low RPMs. I had a '71 Thunderbird 429, and I showed my friend my balled up fist would fit in the intake port! That thing wouldn't get out of its own way until 3,000 RPM🥺

[@jamesarthurbowers]

@@outlawbillionairez9780 Both those heads need more cubes. Boss 302 should be in the 400 cube range and those Thunder Jet heads are much better on a 460.

[@brentmeredith5295]

There was a article I read once where I young gentleman purchased a 1970 boss mustang and wrote a letter to the skunk works to say how bitterly disappointed he was wit the performance of his car they replied send your car to there facilitie and we will set it up they way we intended it to be for the 1970 year he did and end 2 weeks later he got a car that made just over 500 hp and was a completely different beast apparently the 1970 year model was supposed to have a bunch of upgrades to make it probably the most powerful muscle car ever made but then the been counters stepped in and shut that down cause they didn't sell that well the previous year. The article had all the details of changes that the skunk works did with factory part numbers and everything they from memory they changed the came for a solid more aggressive cam fitted extractors and a bigger carburetor modified the cold air flap deleted the smog pump and the rev limiter and some other thing thing that slipped my mind so they had the parts and the know how but the bloody bean counters got in the way which is just fords life story really

[@jdgimpa]

I worked at a Chrysler Plymouth dealer in 1970 we had one guy who had a Boss 429. and a guy with a 1969 440 Barracuda. The guy with the Boss always wanted to race the 440 Barracuda and he always got spanked on the drag strip. Ford sure shot themselves in the foot with the Boss motors.

[@randylear8264]

Just looking at some of the comments on here tells me that Ford guys and Mopar guys still have a passion for their brand. I am Mopar. I got my license in 1975. Bought my first car in 1976 at the age of 17. My first car was a 1972 Hemi Orange Duster. 318 with a manual 3 speed. 8 3/4 3:23 rear. Blacked out hood with strobe stripes down the middle. Long black stripe down the sides. 3 months of ownership and I added headers, Edelbrock intake. Carter 750 AVS carb. Dual exhaust with California turbo mufflers. Cam dynamics cam and Wiend black crinkle valve covers. I was one of the quickest cars at school. Many of Ford went down to this Duster. Also Chevy and all GM products. We always talked bad about the other brands to each other. It was just trash talking up a good race. I did not race any car that challenged me. Definitely a 429 was to fear back then. 426 or 454 was a definite no no. 440? No way. But I did run a few big blocks and handled them enough. Thanks for the video Uncle Tony and Kiwi. Reminds me of when life was not so serious. We could still rib one another and still be friends.

[@stevetaylor9265]

I just got done working on a dorf for my nephew. Ford definitely does some weird things.

[@5695q]

Ford needed to homologate the engine and the Mustang was a popular car to put the engine in and sell enough to qualify it for NASCAR, Ford probably knew exactly how much the engine would put out but due to regulations that were coming and the platform they were putting it in, dialed it back to fit the car and meet regs. It took hotrodders to bring out the beast in the 429 on the streets.

[@toejam503]

Awesome history lesson! I'm a Chevy guy and remember the street battles between the big block Chevys and Mopars, Ford big blocks were always a side note.

[@chrishensley6745]

Me to man.

[@RacingRon47]

Thats because the fords were neutered way worse. The potential was always there to wax the Mopars and Chevs, it was just unknown at the time, took until the late 70s. 550 cubes from a stock early 429/460 block. With a set of dooe-r 70-71 heads nothing would have came close if someone built that combo in the early 70s. Don’t blame the engines, blame Ford.

[@russriley3005]

the problem in the 70s was that insurance companies wouldnt carry a car with this kind of hp.the major American companies (especially mopar) claimed less horsepower so they can be insured.

[@rbell3109]

Let's talk about the 427 SOHC. About 625 Horsepower out of the crate maybe 650 horse with two for barrel carbs. Made with early mid 1960`s technology

[@cliffordcullen1687]

Beautiful work of art. Wish they would have used it in the Pantera

[@The_R-n-I_Guy]

I still just want a GM big block. Chevy/Buick/Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Cadillac I don't care. I just want big, lazy torque. I don't need high rpm speed. I just like burnouts and quick take-offs.

[@peterpeplinski9923]

Pontiac didn't have a big block or a small block they had one block which all Pontiac v8's were made from. One block different bores and strokes.

[@georgedennison3338]

Go w/ a LS, instead. More reliable, cheaper & all the torque you want. A BBC takes too much $ to make it pull a fat guy off the toilet. GM took the best of the SBC, the gut torque of the BBC, combined it & improved it. Match it w/ right rear gears & it'll launch like a demon & melt all the tires you can afford & your lungs can take. LOL

[@John_Buck]

​@@georgedennison3338LS has been burnt out. Everyone has one now, it's at the point it's just a bandwagon anymore.

[@georgedennison3338]

@@John_Buck What 'everyone else' is or is not doing has no bearing on an engine decision. It's about what a person wants or needs, performance wise.

[@John_Buck]

@@georgedennison3338 Well, the OP clearly likes his big block GMs and here you are trying to push him towards small block...

[@josephszot5545]

I remember seeing Sneaky Pete at Miami- Hollywood Raceway in the 1970's with his ford 429 fueler.

[@HANDBALLDIEHARD]

Moral of the story , and the song remains the same , the rich boys get the best toys for fun and sport !

[@Ozark_Bule]

Bunkie Knudsen wanted this engine in a Mustang (and legal in Cali) and that's it. Nobody could change his mind.

[@psycoticreaction9135]

Tony. Great respect for your automotive history knowledge!!!

[@TheArkDoc]

If an engine can look sexy in an engine bay, the boss 429 is that engine. My first car was a 1956 Fairlane (in 1984) and there were few places to find parts. A city over, I ran into two guys who owned more glasstop fairlanes than anyone in the world at the time, and he had fairlane trim parts I couldn't find anywhere else (pre-internet)., Those guys also had a collection of Ford racing cars: 427 SOHC in a fairlane, a 427 cobra (real), and a Ford GT40 (No, I didn't recognize how special those cars were at the time). he also had some of the greatest mustangs and shelbys ever made, and among the collection was a gorgeous boss 429 mustang. I will never forget the first time he popped the hood. Compared to every other engine I had ever seen, including BBC and Hemis, that 429 shook me. I still remember that first glance 40 years later. Thanks for going over this. My brother and I were friends with drag racer from the 1960s-80s, named Don (I'll keep his last name private). He was a Ford man to the bone, and told us the same things have said in this video (and the video on Ford's terrible shock towers). I haven't seen him in 30 years, and I miss our conversations. Hearing you rant brings be back to those wonderful days of sitting around a garage talking engines and wondering what would have happened had Ford built a motor to dominate the street. Great content Tony, I appreciate you and respect your knowledge.

[@dennis-nz5im]

Timing chain doesn’t stretch, but has slack and wear issues. Until you destroy the oil it doesn’t make it wear out chain due to what fuel. Most are changed on every run with nitro, as so much escapes the rings. Mercedes’ 117-116-119 all have similar chains. When you install new , right cam is 5? Degrees retarded. Benz made offset keys for the shafts and it makes huge difference in idle quality. Ford blew it by not just buying Big Bill, and running nascar

[@charlesshelton6051]

Nitro engines are so loud because of the extreme valve bending cylinder pressure at exhaust opening

[@UncleTonysGarage]

Nailed it, Charles. The chain would whip, stretch and shrink on nitro and the cam phasing was all over the place

[@jimlerum]

Great job on the 429 history Tony!!! Well done!

[@dennis-nz5im]

Smog pump hardly saps hp. Allows more rich mix to be used.

[@alexanderelrod8932]

When I was kid my Grandfather and i went to a car show.. where a Wimbledon white Boss 429 was for sale.. It had the Holman moody dual quad intake on it.. He had it for sale, my grandfather was 428 torino cobra jet man.. The old farmer slid us a time slip of 10.60s on 9 inch slicks and my grandfather about threw his hat lol.. Looked completely stock other wise. One of the fastest street cars around Southern Michigan for years.

[@witnesszer0]

one time at the holly hotrod reunion i told a holly rep why don't you make an 8 stack injection with modern fuel injectors all he said was that would be a great idea