How God Gets Men Lost - Rolfe Barnard

[@charlespackwood2055]

Thanks for making me think...

[@charlespackwood2055]

John 1:11,12 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 1. Do you think that if "His own" would have received Him, we would have had the same chance anyway? 2. When Jesus came to "His own", did He have EXPECTATIONS that they would receive Him, OR did Jesus already know and expect that they wouldn't? 3. Is there any relationship between verse 11 and verse 12? Is the relationship emphasized because of the words, "His own"? I mean if you left the phrase out would it eliminate some "force" or "impact" from the text? If not why was the phrase there to begin with? 4. When verse 11 says "Jesus came to His own" does it suggest that it was EXPECTED of them to receive Him OR that Jesus, Himself, e pected that they should have received Him? Does the addition of this phrase have any import at all OR is it just additional information? 5. Would it have been possible that they could be both "His own" and simultaneously NOT of the Elect? If so, doesn't the addition of the phrase, "His own" seem to add a burden of responsibility that was never really there to begin with? I mean if they were never of the chosen elect to begin with, why bother saddling them with the phrase, "His own"? I mean, in what sense were they "His own"? Just the fact that they were of the same ethnicity?

[@originaldanman]

1`1. His own was the Jewish people. The fact that the majority of His people rejected Him, had nothing to do with the fact that He died for all men as the scriptures say. 2. I think He had hope that they would be saved but He clearly didn't know unless the Father told Him. The word says: "He limited Himself" to the will of the Father. All the power of an infinite God cannot exist inside a human without some kind of limitation. We know Jesus didn't know everything, for how could He ever be surprised without being deceptive if He knew did?. 3. Yes, it shows that He didn't just come to save the Jews who mostly rejected Him, but the Gentiles also.. 4. Jesus did not know who was going to be saved and who wasn't as He lived as man, other than what the Father revealed to Him, such as Judas falling away. We don't know if He "expected", but He surely hoped that the all men would believe in Him. One thing for sure is that the Father knows, but that doesn't mean He chooses who will be saved or lost, He never takes away our freewill. 5. Yes it's both, "His own" is the Jewish nation, "the elect" are all those (Jew and Gentile alike), who choose to repent of their sins. Once again God never takes away our free will, before or after we are saved. God elects (or chooses) all those who choose to obey His voice and be saved. So yes, "His own" means ethnicity; "the elect" are those who have trusted in Christ by faith. God decides the way of salvation. all men are called to be saved but only those who freely choose not to resist His call are. For we know that "God calls all men everywhere to be saved". All who freely choose to be saved by grace through faith in Christ, are the elect. All who freely choose to resist His voice when He calls are not the elect.

[@charlespackwood2055]

@@originaldanman Point #2 If Jesus was the Word become flesh or the fleshed out Word of God then He has always had "the mind of God" as well as a perfect understanding of Scripture in His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ Jesus. We pursue "the mind of Christ" which we can assume He had.... if He always were the Christ. Romans 11:15, 19-21 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. So 'rejection' is ἀποβολή which is 'to cast away from one's self.' Their rejection meant that the world (outside of Judaism) could be reconciled. Doesn't this imply that if they did NOT reject Him, there would have not been a possible reconciliation for the rest of the world? Romans 11:11, 25, 26 11 by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them (the Jewish people) jealous. 25 ... a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; 26 and thus ALL Israel will be saved ... BUT.... 9:6 ... " not ALL who are out of Israel are Israel; 9:7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.”

[@charlespackwood2055]

@originaldanman Point #2 If Jesus was the Word become flesh or the fleshed out Word of God then He has always had "the mind of God" as well as a perfect understanding of Scripture in His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ Jesus. We pursue "the mind of Christ" which we can assume He had.... if He always were the Christ. Romans 11:15, 19-21 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. So 'rejection' is ἀποβολή which is 'to cast away from one's self.' Their rejection meant that the world (outside of Judaism) could be reconciled. Doesn't this imply that if they did NOT reject Him, there would have not been a possible reconciliation for the rest of the world? Romans 11:11, 25, 26 11 by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them (the Jewish people) jealous. 25 ... a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; 26 and thus ALL Israel will be saved ... BUT.... 9:6 ... " not ALL who are out of Israel are Israel; 9:7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.”

[@originaldanman]

Typical ignorant preacher has been brainwashed by the reformers. Who also in typical ignorant fashion chalks up an untenable, illogical, false teaching as being incapable to be understood. Instead of realizing it's not truth, and change his doctrine for the only doctrine that does make sense, Freewill. Only an Almighty, Omniscient, omnipresent God, can create a world where His subjects have freewill, and still run it so that it fulfills His purpose. Any other God would be to scared too, because he'd be incapable of ruling it. A weak God would have to control everything his subjects do, in order to rule it the way he wants. Not only is God infinite love and mercy, but He's also infinite humility. Despite what calvinists say, God is more humble than they are. God is so humble, that He can create a finite being, and allow it to defy Him to His face, and allow it choose his a will contrary to His own.