How Haiti Became the Greatest Economic Disaster in the Americas?

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

Capitalism vs socialism is a dumb debate here, because Haiti doesn't really have means of production to seize or extract wealth from, one way, or another. Also, i love how in so many cases when the slave revolt is talked about, the whole "Dessalines genociding almost everyone who wasn't black, shortly after independence" bit is quietly swept under the rug.

[@pollutingpenguin2146]

Neither did Singapore - they legislated and worked their way out of it.

[@shagituz]

And when they tried to participate in the free market selling rice, rice farmers abroad protested and got subsidized so hard Haiti couldn't compete. That's definitely not capitalism. The common domininator with Haiti, Somalia, and other failed states is obvious, bell curve implied.

[@ArtSmosh1274]

It was a war and they were slaves to the people you speak about. There are still Haitians of European decent there today and even Arabs of Haitians decent which make up 5% of the population and there also some of the wealthiest people there. Black nationalist will like to believe they called all of them.

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

@@ArtSmosh1274 Hence why i said "almost all", specifically due to the poles and a couple of others. Regardless, it was a genocide, and Haiti's founding was baptized in a crime against humanity.

[@pollutingpenguin2146]

And let’s not forget - Haiti shares the island with the Dominican Republic, a country that is doing much much better than Haiti.

[@shagituz]

South Africa in 10 years

[@FactualPolitics_noSpin]

If your Malema takes power your children will starve. Be careful

[@kaushikvsmaniyan]

True, tragically!

[@Baddy187]

Maybe even less

[@1wun1]

I heard the same thing 10 years ago

[@shagituz]

@1wun1 how're those rolling black outs?

[@Lando-kx6so]

3:07 it's population isn't entirely "African American" it's 95% - 98% Afro Haitian/Caribbean with a small percentage of a white & arab elite population

[@joebidet2050]

And mulatto

[@gorilladisco9108]

Right? Whoever wrote the script, he/she lives in a bubble.

[@urlauburlaub2222]

A great video with content that is certainly not on anyone's radar. While the conclusion is completely correct, the story about the French Revolution (and also later), maps and terms are inaccurate to wrong! Haiti did fend off the French revolutionists, who also were responsible for the incited riots by Slaves, not the Slaves themselves and what later turned against them, while the former investors and free slaves of the island left because of the revolutionaries, not the Slaves or anyone else. Also the ratio of Slaves to inhabitants is wrong or misguiding, just because Slaves were concentrated on the island. It was more about 35% instead of 90% because of it. Also the Socialism of the Revolution was not only responsible for the death's of the Slaves, which were about half a million, and isn't said in the video. The Revolutionaries also just used the colony for their own benefit to gain political advantage in a democracy, which also failed. So it was all for nothing. Napoleon didn't indebt the Haitians later, but deprived the French investors of their sold rights, and let the Haitians pay for the Revolutionists through "Nationalization". Also the history of the Dominican Republic has flaws, as it was blocked from US trade because of protectionism and abolitionism. This resulted in the WW1 occupation in capital controls, not investments. That's why resentment broke out again, until the dependancy to the US and the economic crisis 1929 hit them hard because of it. The Dom. Rep was military ruled, and the video doesn't mention that it was connected to Franco, having them a relative good time. After WW2, Socialism destroyed the gains. The video then leaps 50 years in the future, while ignoring that Socialist and other guerillas from South America and criminals targeted on Haiti. Those fighting against this, are still the same free people since the French revolution began. The latter are those who infringe private laws and property. The left-winged US Republicans played the same fatal role as the Socialists guys from Venezuela.

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@urlauburlaub2222 Dammit ... the last thing I need is another wall of text. 😵‍💫

[@mrbecker7628]

It isn't the debate between 2 economic system, but how the extremely unfortunate history makes it economic condition of Haiti becomes unbearable

[@Kastoraki]

My proposal of what to do is "absolutely nothing". They don't want foreigners, they don't want investors, they want to live as they like, leave them in peace....

[@urlauburlaub2222]

The foreign bad influence comes from Venezuela, from Columbia and from international Russian crime.

[@jaytanatswamuzhingi971]

You can say “black” u know😂. Haitians are not African American

[@jamreyreynatejada430]

The whole history of Haiti is basically this: "......and then it got worse!"

[@patrickhealey551]

The problem is corruption not capitalism.

[@sethevans5318]

To be fair that’s any countries problem

[@MRLONG758]

Corruption and US and French meddling

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@sethevans5318 To be fair it's usually just a handwavy answer given when you can't say anything else.

[@sethevans5318]

Then what’s opinion on the subject?

[@urlauburlaub2222]

the socialism corrupts, and comes from SA and Cuba to Haiti.

[@nathandurrence134]

Haiti had to also repay the equivalent of $20 billion to gain their freedom, something that should’ve taken 20 years, took 150. The DR wasn’t faced with that cruel fate

[@luisdeleon780]

You forgot that 22 years that DR was under haitian control and were heavily taxed to pay haitian debt

[@MikhaelHausgeist]

Important note... African in time of Haiti been french colony actually also was a slavers. Even more - entire slavery thing starts because african king actually sell even thier own people to European, so true slavers are actually africans themselves which actually teach interpreneuring europeans to use it... Have no illusion about role of europeans(mostly french and dutch) in slavery of africans fenomenon, but it have both sides.

[@1wun1]

Slavery started in the middle east, thousands of years ago.

[@dunnoewatzgood]

every event in history always have both sides its never as black and white as things seem

[@1wun1]

True slavers don't exist, even Greece and Rome had theirs.

[@MikhaelHausgeist]

Exactly what I mean if summarise. 👍

[@puraLusa]

The europeans with the biggest hand on trans atlantic slave isn't the french and dutch, it's the portuguese.

[@jorehir]

Nearly all countries that are rich today used to be prosperous even in the past, before capitalism. Think of Europe, or East Asia. Poor countries remained poor, whatever their economic model. The main difference from the pre-industrial world is India, which used to be rich, and now it's poor despite capitalism.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

India is currently the fastest growing major economy in the world, soon to be third largest. And India was made poor by the British using mostly decidedly very un-capitalist methods.

[@jorehir]

​@@ArawnOfAnnwn In terms of GDP Per Capita, the US is growing $3000/year, Europe $2000/year, China $1500/year, and India just $800/year. It will take decades for India to simply reach today's levels of wealth of those economies... So, no, India isn't becoming a rich country, by world standards. Also, the British decreased India's GDP Per Capita by a few hundred $ during their dominion. That was a big % in pre-industrial world standards, but nothing by today's standards. So, don't blame the Brits.

[@willemvanriet7160]

The UN should start a sovereign wealth fund that France pays into until they’ve paid back that shocking, unreasonable and hypocritical fine

[@Nonamearisto]

The fine which Haiti agreed to as compensation for genocide against (most) white people in Haiti. They spared the Poles, who were also there to work.

[@ankundamwebembezi6358]

Nope all that money will go into the hands of the corrupt

[@rsjeyt]

If capitalism doesn't work explain why there are so many prosperous haitians in america? As soon as Haitians are in an environment where they can work and self determine they thrive. They don't have that at home. CRONYISM IS the ISSUE.

[@puraLusa]

Thr issue is that if u have an unstable and insecure country the most basic aspect of capitalism never starts, aka, private property.

[@1wun1]

Good point here

[@gregkelly2145]

French former colonies are, in general, are far poorer than their English or even Spanish counterparts. That is certainly part of the equation. There is no easy solution here. The only thing that might work would be to give the Dominicans massive financial and military aid (looking at you France) and allow them to absorb Haiti. Otherwise, we are going to have an untenable mass exodus and subsequent illegal immigrant issue.

[@dunnoewatzgood]

hundred percent and the arrogance of the french they think they did these countries a favor

[@puraLusa]

Dominicans are not interested. Some dominicans even hate haitians. For, context domin republic built an actual wall to seperate the 2.

[@1wun1]

French colonies were on average poorer, stronger Britain picked up the best parts.

[@Baddy187]

Capitalism still has to be nurtured and taken care off. You do this mostly by not doing anything and not intervening, once you created the right/free conditions. Capitalism hates nothing more than instability and quick changes in law, noone invests if return on investments depend on how the wind blows.

[@puraLusa]

No one lives in pure capitalist or socialist country. And, as the video explained, haiti is neither. It's economy is dependant on aid. This is why some political activists were against aid distribution without demands but they were censored and labeled racist.

[@mikitz]

Free market by itself doesn't rewrite as capitalsm. Capitalism comprises of free market and rules.

[@TomyPesantes]

Yeah I think this has less to do with economic systems and more to do with corruption, alienation, and collective trauma. Haitians were exclusively treated like property of thr land owning elite; Dominicans were made of Spanish immigrants, Taino, and slaves many of whom formed families, leading to vested interest in keeping parts of the social system in order. Haitians wer not given that luxury, so they destroyed it mercilessly with good reason but at a cost, but akso paying France DEFINITELY had done a number to their economy, so it's kind of a mixed bag sadly, no one thing contributed to their situation, it ALL did.

[@puraLusa]

The nail in coffin was aid without demands and it's unchecked management. Most of the aid didn't go to infrastructure and development, it was embelzeled. Haiti is an aid dependant economy.

[@TomyPesantes]

@@puraLusa Agreed, it's definitely just a crap sandwich just laid on a plate of crap situation for Haiti, no one cares about the well being of the Haitian people ,not even the Haitian government. It's a sad situation all around truly, but can only be resolved by Haiti itself frankly.

[@borja1000]

Note: Switzerland and Australia are capitalist albeit, with some deep-rooted socialist policies that are non-existing in the US. Hard to bundle all of them together. In Haiti's case, it was the capitalist countries it had to forcefully deal with that contributed to its demise.

[@1wun1]

Freedom debt, mafia governments, a bank heist in 1915, multiple foreign putsch, high crime rates, rice price wars etc...

[@gorilladisco9108]

Indonesia experienced those too in one way or another, but we prosper while Haiti flounder. To make further contrast, Haiti's debt was paid in full by 1940s, while Indonesia's "freedom debt" was paid off by 1990s. Which means, Haiti had 50 years head start compared to Indonesia. If they are still poor, or to be precise, getting poorer, it's Haiti's fault, nobody else.

[@1wun1]

@@gorilladisco9108 Indonesia had three among those, and of course they're responsible for how they react to their situation. Though foreign imposed leaderships are still on for Haiti, and one can't compare the two geographies.

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@1wun1 Haiti had several homegrown government and several foreign supported government. All of those were failures. They're keep failing no matter how the government was founded. It's on them, and nobody else. Pointing fingers to foreign powers is just an excuse for incompetence.

[@1wun1]

@@gorilladisco9108 I think that you're misunderstanding my comments, I did not give them a pass.

[@1wun1]

​@@gorilladisco9108 I just read somewhere that Indonesia supplies a ¼ of the world's minerals, being the 1st nickel supplier. Haïti has no such thing.

[@remipoujoulat7759]

It's not capitalism, it's pure African anarchy.

[@querlimfranco8466]

If you think this is the lowest they can go... Give it a few more months! Haitians can't seem to find a rockbottom...

[@benkmarchant]

Would could possibly be the explanation here?

[@jsphfalcon]

More like "How gun control failed in Haiti?" The USA founding fathers knew this could happen when people aren't allowed to take an active role in the militia that protects the republic.

[@akmalhafiz8763]

Truth to be told, Afghanistan is actually more stable right now despite the Taliban took over more than Haiti.

[@Binzdogger]

It depends on your version of stability... You could say north Korea is much more stable but yet 70% live in absolute poverty...

[@newtonrufino1449]

Today i learned that the citizens of Haiti are african Americans, no Haitians 🙄, americans......

[@visualeconomiken]

Yes, America is a continent, not a country :D

[@newtonrufino1449]

@@visualeconomiken you're not getting my point, they are Haitians regardless. For example Brazil have the largest majority of African descendants in the Americas. Guess what? They're Brazilian, just Brazilian. Not afro American Brazilian or Afro Brazilian

[@newtonrufino1449]

@@visualeconomiken adding to previous comments, why aren't white Americans referred as European-Americans but just Americans? The US is full of division and is trying to export that to other countries.

[@newtonrufino1449]

@@visualeconomiken also adding to your premise, they should be referred as Americans because they're citizens of the Americas. Just like poles, Spanish, French, and even some Russians refer themselves as Europeans.

[@pietrycranberry6621]

​@@newtonrufino1449 As pointed out,the Americas is a whole region outside of the U.S. If you imagine the Americas as Europe or Asia then Haitian, Caribbean,or American are sufficient enough descriptors. Haitian people can call themselves Afro-Haitians or Afro-American if they wanted as those names still relate to land, history and culture.

[@melvingalang3915]

Good governance, or should I say, lack of government is the problem.

[@jsnmad]

3:45 It's important to note that the Haitian Revolution was a result of the French Revolution

[@jeffk3746]

Why don’t the citizens just agree to a NAP and then it will be a libertarian paradise?

[@OvisMilitaris]

Haiti defunded the police. LoL

[@bryanaa196]

Didn't Hillary Clinton announced that Haiti with the help of the Clinton foundation will be a nationwide socio-economic experiment? She was so proud of it aswell. 😂😂

[@Mightyflynn77]

How did their population expand to 11 million?

[@puraLusa]

Daddy and mama doing the deed like everyone else... 🤦‍♀️

[@Mightyflynn77]

@@puraLusa breeding on the white Man's dime?

[@puraLusa]

@@Mightyflynn77 hey internet found the dude obcessed with skin shades!

[@Snoy_Fly]

😩👉👌

[@tjpatton8562]

Just let the Dominican Republic take over the rest of the island and create a united Hispaniola. Sounds like they know how to govern that island far better. Whats sad is the Haitians have probably ruined things so badly that the Dominicans dont even want the burden of taking things over.

[@Magicus1]

This is the equivalent of saying that Pierre is incompetent so Pedro should do his job for him. So you’re in favor of punishing competence?

[@Lando-kx6so]

0:27 not necessarily true in Cuba & most of the recent issues can be traced back to the US embargo on it totally preventing Cuba from having a chance. The case of Haiti is what caused the Cuban revolution in the first place & a lot of people screaming that Cuba is a failure & communisim can't work like to leave this part out.

[@joebidet2050]

They can freely trade with rest of world

[@enzo91821]

Why does Cuba need the free market? That's not very socialist of them. Either way they already trade freely with most of the world so the US embargo is not to blame

[@joebidet2050]

@@enzo91821 exactly Fidel always stated socialism was superior to capitalism

[@Philipp-dt2zy]

Overpopulation led to the decline of Haiti

[@exocet8834]

Trujillo shouldve deserved much more mentioning in this video.

[@Snoy_Fly]

What capitalism? Haiti doesn't even have a government...

[@BCAT3089]

"social structure" I like that explanation.

[@sad_wrangler8515]

summed up...blacks

[@ilnikogo7034]

If someone doesn’t want to one helped, leave ‘em in their own dirt

[@joebidet2050]

Sounds like Chicago

[@captainspacebones3795]

I think Haiti should be allowed to sort itself out without foreign intervention. If the Haitian people want nothing more than an economy capable of meeting their basic needs so be it. I never heard of a subsistence farmer live in fear of corporate layoffs or the offshoring of their jobs.

[@jerryinmon2731]

no they just have worry about they and their families starving to death because the crops failed or dying of diseases that are readily treatable but they don't have the money for the medicine.

[@captainspacebones3795]

@@jerryinmon2731 I hear you. It's a choice, besides subsistence farmers do make small surpluses that create a small but viable market that supplies the basic goods and services needed to live. the pre-capitalist pre-industrial world was capable of producing plenty in services and good. Haiti could do the same if it so chooses.

[@reggie69.]

Subsistence farmers getting jobs offshored is exactly what has happened to haiti they signed a free trade agreement with America and American food was just way cheaper impoverishing already poor farmers in haiti which went into the cities contributing to the crime and poverty and mass unemployment there

[@captainspacebones3795]

@@reggie69. Indeed. A new Haitian government would likely need to impose tariffs or quotas to develop it's agriculture sector. The remissions sent by the Haitian diaspora could kick start a healthy agriculture sector in Haiti. To put a button on this thread, I just want the Haitian people to re-establish their Republic then make the citizenry's well being and national sovereignty the principal aim of the government. I think we can all agree the defacto unelected government of Haiti doesn't serve the Haitian people's interests anymore than the infighting between Haiti's elite do.

[@dumbb8089]

Haiti is not African American. Don’t ever say that again. With respect to African Americans .

[@pavelt4405]

Trying to involve ideology is a pointless, everyone knows this is not the issue. Countries do not develope and maintain modern economies, their populations do...

[@FlamingBasketballClub]

Haiti hasn't gotten this much attention since 2021. 🇭🇹

[@ulisesjorge]

I cringed when I heard the term "African American" in this context; this is a term used in the USA and even there people don't embrace it. It looks like the script of this video was written by an intern using ChatGPT and then given to the guy with the bow tie and British accent to make it look credible. The topic is interesting, but it is obvious that whoever wrote this doesn't know anything about the history of Haiti or the Dominican Republic. The characterizations about the Dominican Republic being ruled by "Spanish liberals who were pro market" is inaccurate and an oversimplification. The Dominican Republic's post-independence history was marked by chronic instability, civil wars, and caudillo rule, which is not a smooth path to liberal economic development. In fact, both countries had virtual economic parity by 1960 and most of the economic divergence you observe is of recent origin. While it's true that the Dominican Republic has generally had a more open economy than Haiti, attributing this to the influence of "Spanish liberals" is a dubious claim that reflects a superficial understanding of the country's history. Economic policy choices were shaped by a complex interplay of domestic and international factors, not simply a legacy of Spanish liberalism. This kind of content doesn't just misinform viewers about the specific topic at hand. It also undermines the credibility of the channel as a whole, suggesting a pattern of carelessness and a lack of commitment to accuracy and fairness.

[@dunnoewatzgood]

its a xionist sponsor channel dont look to much into it

[@lawLess-fs1qx]

As Thatcher said subsistence farming works until you run out of other peoples land.

[@gorilladisco9108]

She didn't say that. 🙄

[@alrxandersmiths242]

Here’s thought maybe one isn’t better than the other maybe they each have pros and cons and can be useful in right places and times

[@jarrodyuki7081]

1 haiti needs investments bannana plantations shipping and cranes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and pina colada rum and cigars from cuba marijaun from jamaica and oil from venezulea 5g telecom. 2. megaprisons for all black hispanic and muslim men aged 20-35 3. and hsrs for every american city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@noneofyourbusiness5326]

Stop the insanity. Haitians are NOT "African Americans". "African American" describes a citizen of the US who has African ancestry and (usually) has ancestors who were brought to the US as slaves. Haitians call their ethnicity African or Mulato not African American. In fact, in Haitian terms, most African Americans are Mulatos. Call Haitians African not African American.

[@Sim882]

some countries don’t benefit from getting rid of their colonialists

[@Mightyflynn77]

So you be saying that when the wypipo were in charge, Haiti was rich? Then there be a rebellion to murďer all the wypipo, and now irs the poorest country in the world? And its the fault of the wypipo?

[@dunnoewatzgood]

the oui oui where devlish resource extractors and the si senor were more caring and wanted to settle there

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@dunnoewatzgood The yes yes finally decided to liberate all the slaves.

[@Qbajd]

It should be anexed by Dominicana.

[@RICKRUIZ1220]

Noticing that Haiti the first black independiente state n the Américas. Achieved by slaves makes me think about Liberia. Sort of the same consequences. Just saying

[@MrTruehoustonian]

We can all thank France 🇫🇷 for Haiti's 🇭🇹 😢situation

[@gorilladisco9108]

Why?

[@MrTruehoustonian]

@@gorilladisco9108 read up on the history of Haiti and you'll see why

[@GPOng-ug2el]

The answer is demographics. Black people, whether they're citizens of poor or rich countries, tend to achieve very little economically. Throw a bunch of Chinese people to poor countries, they'll get rich in decade. The answer lies in genetics.

[@Dysputant]

There is certain difference between Haiti and Switz .... weather... ofc weather.... what would you thinked i wanted to say ?

[@AyitiGoddess]

why does he say african american, 😮 thats a different group of people omg, research

[@Jiburley]

R.I.P. Haiti :-(

[@Austinator0630]

Haiti was always destined to be a failed state.

[@joebidet2050]

I think race and lq has alot to do with wealth creation as well

[@FernandoTjameya]

Wow. Can you elaborate please ?

[@joebidet2050]

@@FernandoTjameya Google wealth of nations vs lq many studies have been done

[@prime12602]

how to measure intelligence(IQ is the so inconsistent that it’s not even considered anymore)and how it’s related to race?

[@joebidet2050]

@@prime12602 standardised tests . Not perfect but It give rough idea

[@prime12602]

@@joebidet2050 can provide sources that prove a consistent and accurate way to measure intelligence?

[@Anti-CornLawLeague]

Also, imports of rice subsidized by the U.S. federal government did some damage.

[@Aesyrbane]

Why do you use capitalism and corruption as synonyms?

[@Aristothielian]

10:22 It's true, but you shouldn't just come out and say it like that

[@jarrodyuki7081]

im joginin zhaoyong and maggie o defeat my faher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@mikitz]

I suppose the best solution would be the merger between Haiti and the DR, sounds like a win-win in the long term.

[@ignacemorel641]

Almost everything you say is wrong. First and foremost Haïti is not quite a capitalist country, it is still in a precapitalist stage in its most important sector which is agriculture. Haïti has no industrial production, it is totally dependant on import to meet it's demand for food and other basic commodities. Another big mistake you made is about Cuba which you described as a failure of socialism. Cuba has been subjected to a brutal blockade and sanctions from the US for more than 60 years. Despite numerous resolution by the UN General Assembly to lift the blockade, the US in violation of these resolutions still impose them illegally. This is the root cause of Cuba's economic difficulties. I hope both of these countries can find a solution to their externally provoked problems.

[@bbalila]

I have sorry to say Any where BLK, it has same story except Namibia, Botswana & Rwanda miracle. I don’t believe in skin color but this is sad Data/Reality. In last 30-40 year you can see countries like Singapore, Taiwan, DR, Vietnam & even China came from most poor to prosperous countries.

[@gorilladisco9108]

It's socialism. Most if not all Sub Saharan African countries are ruled by socialism minded politicians. Even China is currently flounder when they tried to reintroduce socialism into the economy.

[@witchsistah]

They aren't African-American. They are Haitian and Black. There are other Black people out there besides African-Americans.

[@teslainthehood2521]

3:31 when. Saying Haitis was rich but over looking it was because of slaves and free labor nothing more.

[@gorilladisco9108]

And the slaves seized those riches. So it's still a rich country, with different management.

[@breaktide251]

2:10 capitalism

[@enzo91821]

Haiti is obviously known for being the most capitalistic country in the Americas

[@egg174]

Don't hait on Haiti

[@EpilepticHouseplant]

Capitalism is pretatory

[@philsophkenny]

😮

[@gilberttello08]

✌✌✌

[@TheUnatuber]

Acting against their own self-interests. In America, we call such people Trump Supporters.

[@fabiantaveras8458]

*Democrat voters

[@AshMundo]

African American?... 🤔

[@gorilladisco9108]

They try to hide their wokeness, but it shows up now and then, here and there.

[@alexduckett87]

Haitians are not African Americans sir lol

[@enzo91821]

They're from Africa and live in the Americas, so yes.

[@alexduckett87]

@@enzo91821 they're Afro-Caribbean genius lol

[@enzo91821]

@@alexduckett87Same thing, we call them Afro-descendants in SA

[@Snoy_Fly]

@@alexduckett87America is the name of the continent Haiti is part of.

[@alexduckett87]

@@Snoy_Fly wow lol

[@johnrivera922]

The owners weren’t murderd. They owned slaves. 30 a person by some estimates lol. They were brought to justice

[@SP95]

So who judged the slave sellers then ?

[@johnrivera922]

@@SP95 white people. That’s why they got off Scott free. Just like today for the most part.

[@enzo91821]

@@SP95 They weren't mentioned in the video so idk why you brought it up

[@SP95]

@@enzo91821 Yeah so when are we going to bring them up ? Are they under protection ? Sounds like there is a conflict of interest.