How heat pumps work for dummies.

[@MrKarlPrince]

Probably one of the best videos you have done, and certainly the best I have seen anywhere explaining how potential heat sources can be exploited.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

I recently finished insulating my home and am now considering the next step. As I live in the Netherlands, getting a Heat Geek trained/approved installer is a bit of a challenge, and from what I have seen, most installers here just choose what they know. I think getting underfloor heating first should make sizing a lot easier, and with insulation the gas boiler is using about 8000 kWh a year including bath and shower (estimated at 1800 kWh). The system runs pretty efficiently now, and throttles back to 4 kW in most cases (with some tuning), and maybe with underfloor heating I could get this yearly usage down a bit further than that. So what do I do next? 1. Get underfloor heating installed first and measure for another winter. 2.Just install a Vaillant R290 heat pump based on the current heat loss and installed radiators. 3. Get a total quote/design and have everything installed at the same time (or warm month) by one installer, so the system is perfectly matched from day 1. Or does it not matter as long as each installer does a good job?

[@RealtalkManc]

I have just bought a split system heat pump from Fischer, only company doing the split- the hot water system separate to the radiator feed, meaning in summer I don’t need the heat pump on for my hot water. Double efficiency

[@stephenfarrell236]

Love this channel. Just graduated from engineering and love the idea working for myself in renewables. Signed up for a course on heatpumps, then I'm off.

[@CamTracey]

Wish you guys had heat geeks in Austria! Love this channel!

[@thomasl2974]

Interesting dimension suggestions on the ground geating system. I live in Finland around 60 degree nort. The average yearly tempreature here is around 6 degrees. That correspond very well to the ground water tempreature. When operating a ground water heat pump we typically loose one to two degrees after a few years of operating. We have underfloor heating in a house we built 2004. Building standards required tripple glazed windows and minimum of 30 cm of wall insulation and we have 35 in the walls and 50 cm in the roof. Seiling hight is 2.4 meters and we have 208 m2. Our well is is 185 meters deep out of which 178 meter is active in the rock. Our cuurent heat pump is an inverter model with max 8 kW (replaced in 2023). The first pump was 9.5 kW on/off model. Both of these have been sufficent to supply the heat and warm water without tiggering the direct electrich heaters for anything else than heating the tap water to 65 C once a week. We consume around 10 to 12 MWh a year depending on how cold winter we get. That is around 2500 Euros per year including all electricity. In the past the systems were dimensioned to cover 70 to 80 percent of the heating requirement butalready in 2004 I decided to dimension it to 100 percent. That is now the common way they recommend over here especially with the inverter models. There are a fw reputable brands of heat pumps that are commonly used here. Those are Nibe, Bosch/IVT and Thermia. For commercial usage there is also Viesmann.At least these have stood the test of time. Our first pump was a NIBE and now we have a Bosch. I chose Bosch this time due to the reputation of the local installer, especially there life cycle services, not only the quality but whith the speed they are available. The new pump is not more efficent than the old one. Maybe a little more efficent when heating tap water. I have only been running the new pump during winter so far and the COPso far is 4.3. I excpect that to increase slighly over a full year. The tempreature in the well did go down to plus 3 degrees during the winter. We had - 30 degrees for a 2-3 weeks this winter so not bad. Most of our neighbours have ground heating. No well is closer than 100 meter from each other. Too many too close to each other is not good for keeping the ground water tempreature. If you live closer by each other in a residenial area this can become an issue ofr yourself and your neighbours. The ground water can however be 1 to 2 degrees warmer if there are lots of buildings and paved rouds. The groud will become warmer during summer due to the black surfaces. Our geological institute have surveyed most of the country and one can see the type of bedrock you have. There are differencies in the heat transfer capabilities depending on the rock. We normally do not have to make any ground surveys when drilling an well. The only risk one faces is how far down the bedrock is. The cost for the part before reaching the bedrock is much more expensive as it needs to be fitted with steel pipe. A typical installation around here without the floor heating would now cost around 20 thousand Euro. If the house is over 160 m2 ground heat starts to become feasible, for smaller houses it is questionable. I guess in central Europe it could be questionable if it is feasible since the heating requirements are less. I would not concider installing at least a ground heat pump if average tempreatures are above 12 degrees, especially not in an old house. This of course depends on the electricity prices as well and those are difficult to predict 10 years ahead. If possible I would first look into the insulation.

[@brianl6420]

Which would you reccomend for a new build bungalow? Well insulated, airtight, mhrv and emitter is underfloor heating. Swaying between ashp which will give me over 5 scop and a gshp water to water on boreholes that has expected scop of over 8

[@peterurquhart7191]

Have you got a information on hybrid air pump ? Are they any good ?

[@1grizzlyrizzo]

I know someone with an old Worcester Bosch ground source heat pump that was installed around 2007 along with underfloor heating, they have no end of issues with it having alarms going off all the time and have the front panel off to access a reset button on regular occasions. Apparently they need a replacement part to fix this but are having a tough time sourcing the rare parts, should they cut their losses and install a newer system that can be more easily maintained whilst being more efficient? Would they be able to sell on the unit for parts as they are so rare? Or is it just all smoke and mirrors from a unreliable technician that is leading them on, are the parts actually quite available?

[@markramsay6399]

That was excellent thanks! So we have a Calorex system that was installed into a new house in 2008. We had no idea what it / heat pump was, it was totally down to planning permission for a one off build on a plot. For this reason, took as some years to make the best of it, as we just treated it like a gas boiler and were therefore a bit disappointed. Now the whole thing makes more sense. I am aware that Calorex seem to be out of the domestic market now (seem to do swimming pools). So will be interested to see what we do when this system eventually needs replacing. That said, seems quite robust. Two compressors. No resistive heating. If required can to domestic water to 55C with no issues. Mark.

[@tombradshaw2000]

Can you guys make a video on district heating and the use of heat pumps within those scenarios

[@waqasahmed939]

I think I'll get an air to water heat pump eventually but prior to that, I'll focus mostly on a "fabric first" option I've got microbore piping so I'm going to to replace those I'll also make sure I get super insulation, triple glazed windows an MVHR, Jaga Strada radiators etc.. As for my parent's, they live in a terraced house so I'd hope that the council could install some kind of community heating solution. Being a mid terraced house presents additional challenges unfortunately

[@The19610211]

Do you have a comparison video? We have a 200m2 apartment and want to replace our old gas boiler but don’t know which heat pump system to invest in. For example, Daiken or Vaillant.

[@corollarijder]

Very nice. A bit technical at moments, but the principal is explained very good! Question: I am thinking of using a heat pump boiler (which only runs during the day) for hotwater and in the night for supplying heat to our under floor heating. In this way I want to avoid that the central heat pump kicks on. Did you ever do anything like this?

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

Basically you are buying two heat pumps then. The nice thing is an all-in-one hot water system that is independent of the main house heating system, both in kW as in location. The downside may be extra cost of 2 systems, but if you can downsize the heating system and simplify the install, that may offset the extra cost (also not adding/changing pipes )

[@dougal8812]

Helllloooo, I have a couple questions reg. heat pumps and how they work / can be set up. 1) More basic one, but when I've heard about heat pumps the general advice has always been to set a temperature and leave it there. This is obviously is not ideal given the natural way out bodies work is to expect a lower temperature at night (otherwise you will get poor sleep). As such, is it possible to set the temperature to say 20C in the day and 17 or 18C over night (or just off)? 2) How possible is it to link up a wood burner to the heating system. With our current system boiler we have the boiler and a back boiler wood burner feeding into a neutraliser, and then the rads and the coil for the hot water tank feed off the outlet from the neutraliser. This is perfect as we get carbon neutral heat for both hot water and radiators when using the wood burner. Is this still possible with a heat pump or is it likely to be incompatible for one reason or another? (if not then this may be a bit of a step backwards given the grid is not carbon neutral atm)

[@fig123fig]

Is it better to put in a 180L or a 300L cyclinder. I have 3 showers and 1 bath hopefully will have the GSHP integrated with PV it's 165m2 ?

[@clashwithbuddy6315]

Can you suggest can a mono block heat pump that can be directly connect to underfloor heating without the need for a hot water tank.

[@haseef]

The flame logo with the glasses is 🔥

[@anthonywebber7434]

Hi do you have to have a buffer tank if you have 2 Air source heat pumps i.e if you have 2 x 8kw heat pumps do you have to have a buffer tank to synchronise the two units. Also are 2 8 better than one 16 if the unit can produce 16Kwh at lower temperatures.

[@jeffn9316]

Brilliant video Adam. A highly informative 9-minute watch. Many thanks

[@frederickwood9116]

Thanks for this informative intro to the evolving and confusing topic. I’m looking for information around small air to air or air to water heat pump solutions. The idea being that a single radiator or fan would give a continuous low grade (20 or 30 degrees c) supply and help to stabilise a rooms temperature. I know I’m missing calculations for room size and probably more to understand how the room losses heat. Is this something that is relatively easy to do?

[@mik165]

Nice one Adam. I have read that where I live peak winter ground temperature at 1 meter deep can be below 7 Celsius. I can confirm this as I measure the temperature of water supply as the pipe enters the property. Makes one think twice regarding ground source hp.

[@miken3963]

That just means you need to get deeper for your ground source heat pump. Municipal water lines are generally laid just deep enough to not freeze in winter. You would have to go as deep as 2.4m to reach the no-freeze line in polar regions. You're much better off just going vertical if it's actually cold in your neck of the woods in winter. Got a vertical loop myself about 50m deep, brine temp stays at 12 °C in winter or summer.

[@mik165]

@@miken3963 For a vertical hp not only is a geological survey needed but a geological permit for a certain depth. And then if the installers need to drill lets say deeper than 50 meters, you need a new permit allowing you to drill deeper than 50 meters. And there's no guarantee you'll actually get a permit. Vertical hp is just so much hassle, hardly worth it in my opinion. However if you have time and money knock yourself out

[@aeonturnip2]

I'd love to get rid of my gas combi boiler for a heat pump system and also would put in solar panels and a home battery to help keep the electricity costs of this down. I'd really like one that could cool as well as heat - is the only option the mini-split style of air-to-air heat pumps? I don't think they're eligible for the government grant, which seems a bit mean. Are there other options?

[@BenIsInSweden]

Cooling is possible with central heating (Air or Ground Source), but to get the most out of it, you need fan coils for the rooms you want cooling, and a 4 pipe system. (standard 2 pipe is possible, but is more restrictive), all these will increase the installation cost. You will likely find that an A2A system even without the grant is cheaper to install than an A2W system. However, with A2A come replacement time, you're basically going to be paying the same amount again. So an A2W system can work out cheaper in the long run. There's also nothing stopping you from having an A2W system for heating, and then A2A for a room that needs cooling.

[@Liquid_Badger]

Have you checked out the Energy Blade from Nuenta? Done a few of these and have found them to be pretty good, curious on your opinion ✌️

[@sambutler927]

Hi, are you only running the online courses now ? I did phone your office and left a message re in person training courses, I never heard back. Thanks

[@beexpressplumbing]

How do we access the new heat pump training? It's not on the courses website. Only the 1st 2.

[@beexpressplumbing]

And I'm 😊missing the cap :-)

[@williammiddlemass5502]

Can you do a video on emitters? Interested to learn more about fan coils

[@sjcsystems]

Interesting content. Please can you confirm that air to air heat pumps qualify for reduced rate or zero VAT? Can their installation be funded by the BUS grant?

[@chrisyarrr]

We had air to air fitted last week in our bedrooms. There was zero VAT but it didn't qualify for BUS. I don't know if the same applies to commercial installations

[@sjcsystems]

@@chrisyarrr thanks, this is what I thought. Which make have you gone for?

[@chrisyarrr]

@@sjcsystems They were fairly basic Fujitsu units as that's what the company exclusively fit. They came wifi enabled and the app, Airstage, is ok if a bit dated.

[@robandrews9826]

Can you do a video about heat punps for just heating? (No hot water tank) I cant seem to find any information anywhere, im thinkimg of getting a heat pump but dont have anywhere for a hot water tank and will possibly be using a heat battery for hot water

[@typxxilps]

I would suggest that you might talk about a heatpump cascade of 2 smaller heatpumps instead of 1 bigger due to higher efficiency and longer running time instead of short cycles in spring and autumn. You had mentioned it in the most recent skill builder video at Adams home when you were discussing about the leading installations with only these 2 words but I have heard about that before. Of cause you had mentioned that 2 smaller heatpumps can get a lower modulation especially if one is turned off, but there might be a more complex story behind it cause I wanted to avoid these short cycles we call "clocking" , when the heatpump can no longer modulate a too low heat load and can only turn off and wait till it turns on again - kind of pulse width modulation.

[@HeatGeek]

That’s not really a type and its own video at some point 👍

[@KavanOBrien]

Is this a promotion video or which unit is best.

[@diatonicdelirium1743]

Question: I'm looking to install a heat pump system and was wondering if you ever did experiments with cascading two smaller heat pumps in a single system? My thinking is that you can use them staggered (let only one HP run until the minimum output requirement of the 2nd system is also met) to achieve an average low output of both, i.e. less noise and higher COP. This may need some extra plumbing to keep pump#2 hydraulically neutral, assuming pump#1 always starts first.

[@dbinga6204]

You would need planning permission for 2 outdoor units (under MCS) also cost would be extortionate, space required would have to be factored in, would work with the correct sized buffer but would be less efficient than a correct sized unit with an accurate heat loss calculation

[@RealtalkManc]

I just got mine from Fischer - check them out

[@zack4485]

@heatgeek why does it seem like ground source water-to-water heat pumps have a significantly lower COP/EER than do air-to-water heat pumps? And why do packaged direct expansion units have higher EER than water-to-air (hydronic fan coils)? What am I missing?

[@johntisbury]

Great explanation Adam. Interesting to hear about the different types of ground source.

[@CrashUK28]

Air to Air more efficient then heat pump. Added bonus of air conditioning which work great with solar power.

[@BenIsInSweden]

Air to Air are heat pumps... I'm not sure how someone can claim they are more efficient, as there's - as far as I'm aware, no end user way of verifying COPs/SCOPs. Where as with ones in water borne systems it's fairly simple - probe electricity usage, flow and water inlet and outlet temperature. So the SCOPs given will be more in line with what the system can achieve - whereas you're kinda relying on the lab conditions for A2A. As a side note: I have A2A (3 outdoor units serving 4 indoor units, and a DHW cylinder), so I'm not against A2A at all, just trying to be realistic about the comparison 🙂

[@CrashUK28]

Manufacturers rate them at 500%. Simple physics heating air to air needs less energy. 1. Your not needing high temperature and 2. Your not heating water to then a radiator to then heat air.

[@BenIsInSweden]

​@@CrashUK28 Yes, but the manufacturers test them running under specific circumstances (usually 20C for one). I normally run mine at least at 21C and with a set fan speed to ensure my house is comfortable, so whilst getting the manufacturer's quoted SCOPs and COPs is possible, it's unlikely that everyone will be getting them. Also with A2A as there are fewer "emitters" they may need to run at a higher temperature than an equivalent A2W set-up, so whilst there is technically an extra step it can end up more efficient.

[@uksupporter8867]

This is from a heat source calculator for a house of my age , For every sq ft of living space, you need about 30 BTU of heating output. That means, for example, that for a 1,000 sq ft home, you would require a 30,000 BTU heat pump (that’s a 2.5-ton heat pump)., so my heat source pump for my house is 60000 but with a weight of 5 tonnes, so how is that going over my roof then

[@micheljansen85]

The heated floorsize x w/h lost calculation is only a guideline at best. There’s old houses that have massive insulation/triple glazed and run of a teeny tiny heatpump. A properly done heatloss calculation done by a professional is worth the money. From there you can size your heatpump and/or take insulation measures. After that, system layout comes into play which focusses on high-output emitters at low temperatures (underfloor heating, upsizing rads) and keeping flow rate as unrestricted as possible.

[@alanmainwaring1830]

Love heat pumps . Think about installing water to air heat pump in Antarctic. Sounds inpossible but a huge heat source is the ocean at about minus one deg C . Could save an enormous amount of fuel with a cop of at least 3

[@ferguswalker7345]

Which national program are you with? I work for BAS and would love to touch base about how you manage the various difficulties?

[@NeilGowers-qx8zc]

Can you please say AND capable instead of incapable.Unless thats what you mean.?

[@TheSockWomble]

Our oil boiler is on its last legs. Tried some heat pump quotes and you need a up to date EPC survey to qualify for the £5k grant with no recommendation for extra insulation etc. despite planning permission for a loft conversion we would have to waste loads of money on loft insulation we will have to rip out after…. So now looking at just replacing the oil boiler with another guess what oil boiler. Government policy really makes so much sense not. If only they had a few decent engineers working in government departments and ministers who came from the professions they were in charge of the departments they ran they country would be running so much better!

[@TC-V8]

Would love a vid on hydronic fan convectors. They seem like a great option for low temp heating and even a little cooling but info and reviews seems very sparse!

[@THEBOB566974]

yes please @HeatGeek had these in hotel i worked at heated room up tremendously, but nether saw them in houses, would love to see you guys testing and discussing them.

[@homegrown241]

You did not mention the best of them all.. the ventilation-air to water heatpump. Like the NIBE S735. It's the beauty and the beast in one.

[@bell-architects]

Is there a video on it?

[@richardlewis5316]

Ground source heat pumps can only work in a very small number of properties - so this should have been pointed out - and that they cost a lot of money to install.

[@davecavaghan7889]

What about a heat pump with no cylinder and no radiator or pipework upgrades because I don’t have the money you want

[@flowerpowerocks3283]

i dont like the underground lake for aquifers analogy, its more like a soaked sponge

[@glightsolutions]

Geo all the way baby! We love geo. Oldest we’ve seen is 28 years years old. Still all original parts. Good geos are so reliable

[@eggonatowel868]

If you're building a home and already digging trenches, why not put an air hose in the ground and feed it to a mini split?

[@JeremyCobb]

I love that everyone thinks there is one type of heat pump. When there has been at least one type, possibly two living in their kitchen for years.

[@StuartJ]

Much prefer air-to-air heat pumps. Cooling is just as important to me as heating.

[@jezlawrence720]

Apparently some air to water can do cooling (i.e. they can run the radiators with cold water in summer) although surely this must create condensation on your radiators?

[@StuartJ]

@@jezlawrence720 radiators operate using convection, so that wouldn't work. If the world is supposed to be heating up, we will need more cooling, so it seems mad to not go for that option.

[@rfrisbee1]

​@@StuartJMy thoughts exactly. The group of people with the disposable income to pay for heat pumps are approx middle age and close to retirement. These people will not be coping well with extended periods of hot and possibly humid weather that will be increasing likely in the next few decades in the UK. Cooling as well as heating will be essential for this group of people.

[@DannyThompson54]

Is it even remotely possible to replace a traditional Gas Boiler system that feeds a 15mm pipework and radiators with Air Source heat pump without ripping the entire house apart? I'd want to re-use as much of the incumbent system that is in place. Where's the best place to start? I want to avoid cowboys and sharks.

[@Cineenvenordquist]

I regret to say that's well within convention, but it can't have sourced any ventilation so you'd want an air exchanger in addition to the insulation prerequisite and evicting or amending the gas boiler. Also [Yank hat] if you had cowgirls install ground loop heating from the cellar to roll a save versus -40° weeks (if the leccy holds out) wouldn't that be regular with the inspectors? Or not to call the Scotswomen cowgirls?

[@JaSon-wc4pn]

Anyone else Burning carrier bags in front of their heat pump to increase efficiency ? Just to balance out their "Net Zero"

[@Cineenvenordquist]

Widowers can still shag the obligatory portrait of the Council Rep, can't they? Awful.

[@jmills1549]

Free, with free leccy for life 😂

[@Cineenvenordquist]

Very disappointed, I had expected to run a matrix of makers, brands, tech, redundancy, controls niceness and refrigerant.

[@DEPHECTDJ]

Check out that hair 😂

[@brendanfisher2528]

It's murv from the wet bandits on home alone lol

[@plumleytube]

All very very expensive to install. Maybe ok on new houses, but if you have a good gas boiler now ... stick with it. Basically, as mad as electric cars.

[@daz3745]

I think the technology is fascinating but I just can't see this ending well when the big changeover comes. We couldn't even get the smart meters right so what chance have we got with this. Most of these systems will be installed for free by the government. Installation teams with targets of 5 installations per week. Corners will obviously be cut and systems won't work right from day 1. It's going to be an absolute disaster.

[@Cineenvenordquist]

So DIY it, it's reasonable to do several houses a day if they don't have to do the insulation first or have a team of 6 and the inspector abiding half to 1/6 the time. Big changeover? King Charles is leaning into Dark Brandon mode rockwool, cladding, vapor barrier and mastic?

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

i prefer gas

[@alcord2540]

None of them.When its freezing cold ,no matter how much you magnify that temperature you don't get heat.Also i don't want all my floors ripped up to fit extra large semi warm pipes.

[@Cineenvenordquist]

So no, freezing and 0°K are different. If you think hail or snow or flooding or walruses are going to wreck your outside coil bring it in and have it work against a spread loop of underground circulating saline, using solar and battery power if you think your electric service is going down under frozen influences. If the ground freezes 16 m down, you have an amazing chance to run liquid hydrogen works... If you just need the negativity why not LLC as Krampus?

[@Uk-Writer]

Easy answer no heat pump is best for you

[@puffingtonsmythe8690]

None of them is the answer!!

[@H4N5O1O]

how far down to ground source pipes running horizontal need to be ?

[@Cineenvenordquist]

Maybe hire a mechanical digger even if the 25 m auger drills thing seems to book nicely at first. It's a little posh though.