How History Shapes Our Faith | N.T. Wright Online

"Many people in our post-modern world are reading the Bible and finding something hugely attractive about Jesus. But the frameworks they’re being given are not helpful as a place to live." So says Prof. Wright in this interview discussion of the Bible and how our place in history shapes how we read it.
Professor N.T. Wright sits down for a cup of tea to discuss the historical philosophies influencing Christian thought, why history can be so uncomfortable for modern people, and how we can love God with our whole mind.
Dive deeper into these ideas in our two-part course, History and Eschatology.
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[@christianfrommuslim]

I really appreciate Dr. Wright's humble recognition that we are not saved by our perfect theology, because no one has it all right. We are saved by saved by grace and faith in Jesus Christ.

[@duncescotus2342]

Friends this is amazing. This is an Apostle for our time and so few know of him. And his ancestral uncle was the first chaplain of Harvard! Amazing. You can't listen St. Paul. C. S. Lewis has been gone quite a while. But you can tune in and catch a glimpse of N.T. Wright. Consider yourself lucky to be alive.

[@NTWrightOnline]

Appreciate your enthusiasm so much!

[@duncescotus2342]

@@NTWrightOnline My pleasure, friends of the Good News!

[@elmienthom9825]

I agree!

[@duncescotus2342]

@@elmienthom9825 Well that settles it! We are in agreement, Lord. Thank you Jesus for Tom Wright!

[@danielandarian]

Dream come true. 🖤

[@kle0patr0s]

Loved seeing Tom being interviewed in this setting. ☕Great work Arian!

[@juancarlosaliba4866]

Thank you Lord for NT Wright! He reminds me of what Vatican 2 is actually trying to say to us today!

[@themasterofcontent4155]

Very valuable words. I like to be hopeful that Biblical and historical literacy will spread throughout the West in the years to come, even if they are many.

[@jonathantylerjackson]

This is incredible..

[@duncescotus2342]

Yes. Words fail.

[@robertjeffery8045]

A wonderful learning experience.

[@calleOMEGA]

Brilliant! 🙏

[@3VLN]

Wow

[@jasonb5645]

This is wonderful!

[@jasonegeland1446]

I just listened to your interview with Iree Spivey and others on Universal salvation under Failed Kingdom's channel yesterday and really enjoyed it! Happy to have discovered your content and always glad to find other like-minded people who share the same values in spirit! Best:)

[@NTWrightOnline]

We are so glad you've found our content and community!

[@winstonshipman8734]

I am Jewish and follow Rev Wright because his scholarship is excellent . I marvel that he even often tells you what he thinks the shortcomings of his own theology is. The only disagreement I ever have is when he discusses are the scriptures good history. G-D dad not tell the Jews to write history . Nor did he tell Christians Gospel writers " to write a history book" . They were to tell the world who he was .

[@NTWrightOnline]

Many thanks for your reflections--we are glad you're here! In many places, Prof. Wright uses the phrase, 'the story the Bible is telling' to connote the idea that the authors were doing more than simply narrating an account of past events.

[@winstonshipman8734]

Excellent phrase. And I sometimes fear , because many of us went to college , we are going too "Lofty " in both Jewish and Christian doctrine" . I know so many Christians that are just praying to Jesus because "some relative has cancer and they need his help" . The disciples were illiterates . Perhaps praying to Jesus to help a relative with a problem is " the most important purpose of theology " ?

[@NTWrightOnline]

Theological reflection that opens up space for knowledge of our need and prayerful trust for his rescue seems to be a worthy purpose indeed!

[@winstonshipman8734]

Great . When I learned that the Gospels were written in an "educated Greek" I feared that those writers already were giving us a "High Jesus " . Those growing crowds following Jesus may have been shouting at him " do another miracle for us " and not " tell us about your theology. The average Jew may have known a lot less Torah then the average "Protestant Theologian" and certainly less then the great Protestant theologians. It may be a great irony of the Reformation . The Protestants now know more O.T. then the average Jew.

[@duncescotus2342]

The Christian faith ought not and cannot be divorced from history. The reason is simple: The Gospel is a narrative of true, historical events. If not, it's nothing; well not nothing; it's still great literature. It would then be something like a very compelling fairy tale.

[@winstonshipman8734]

Strangely , the great Jewish scholars are a lot more convinced that the historical Jesus is to be found in the gospels then many Christian scholars and I agree with their logic. The first century Jews and Jesus the Jew were very narrow in their view of the world . When you hear Jesus debating " correct hand washing rituals" it has more then the ring of truth it is such a unique discussion to the Jews and no other culture. It is the same for many of the debate topics between Jesus and other Jews which can be described as "uniquely Jewish " and therefore accurate. These are in fact the "Jewish unique topics" the Jews would"demand his opinion on" to test him. This leads many Jews to believe the Gospels topic wise are accurate.

[@NTWrightOnline]

And, perhaps exploring these uniquely Jewish topics more deeply might broaden Christian understandings of purity and the call to holiness in the NT.

[@janetaveling8732]

Disappointed that there is no heaven after we die. Did I misunderstand? Don’t want to die 😢

[@NTWrightOnline]

Keep listening to the series. When we die, we go to rest with Christ, as Paul described. But we await the resurrection of the dead so that we will be reunited with our bodies and live on the regenerated new earth. Hope that helps. Blessings. David

[@janetaveling8732]

Thank you that does help and encourage me. I will certainly keep listening 🙏

[@winstonshipman8734]

Yes , but I am also addressing Bart Ehrman's wrong view that the Gospel's came about from a Christian "Game of telephone " over the centuries and no actual events are being correctly recorded . The thought that in this "Game of telephone " they decided to discuss "Jewish hand washing rules" makes his whole premise absurd.

[@LM-jz9vh]

*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. Google *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her first lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from approx. 8:50. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Debunking the Devil - Michael A. Sherlock (Author)"* *"10 Ways The Bible Was Influenced By Other Religions - Listverse"* *"Top Ten Reasons Noah’s Flood is Mythology - The Sensuous Curmudgeon"* *"The Adam and Eve myth - News24"* *"The origins of the Ten Commandments - Carpe Scriptura"* *"Before Adam and Eve - Psychology Today"* *"Gilgamesh vs. Noah - Wordpress"* *"No, Humans Are Probably Not All Descended From A Single Couple Who Lived 200,000 Years Ago"* *"Adam & Eve: Theologians Try to Reconcile Science and Fail - The New Republic"* *"Adam and Eve: the ultimate standoff between science and faith (and a contest!) - Why Evolution Is True"* *"Bogus accommodationism: The return of Adam and Eve as real people, as proposed by a wonky quasi-scientific theory - Why Evolution Is True"* *"How many scientists question evolution? - **sciencemeetsreligion.org**"* *"What is the evidence for evolution? - Common-questions - BioLogos"* (A Christian organisation) *"Old Testament Tales Were Stolen From Other Cultures - Griffin"* *"Parallelism between “The Hymn to Aten” and Psalm 104 - Project Augustine"* *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei"* *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*

[@LM-jz9vh]

*Let's briefly run through the 'ten plagues':* First the rivers are turned to blood, all the fish die and the waters stink. No one has any water to drink. This lasted for seven days and would have resulted in mass deaths due to dehydration. Amongst the first to die would have been the children. *The author doesn't think to explain how the Hebrews were saved from this. No record of it was made anywhere in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 7:17-25. This is followed by a plague of frogs which had somehow survived the rivers of blood that had killed all the fish. A mere inconvenience, nothing more, and a big stink when they all died, *but no record anywhere.* Exodus 8:2-13. Next we have the plague of lice about which very little is said *and of course no record was made.* To a people who would have been accustomed to lice this would probably have been nothing remarkable. Exodus 8:16-18. Then the flies. Apart from the land being 'corrupted', whatever that means, there don't appear to have been any ill effects from this and they disappear as quickly as they came a few days later. *Nothing worth recording there, obviously.* Exodus 8:21-31. Now the author seems to begin to lose the plot and describes a 'grievous murrain' *which kills all the Egyptians' cattle, horses, camels and sheep.* ***They all died - hold that thought.*** *No Egyptian historian or keeper of official records deems it worthy of mention.* Exodus 9:3-6. Next come the boils which afflict everyone and everything, including all the livestock ***even though they had been killed by the 'grievous murrain' a few days earlier,*** *apparently, and yet no-one thought to write anything down anywhere.* Of course, anyone who understood anything about microorganisms and the aeteology of boils would have described this as an infestation with Staphylococcus - the signs of faecal contamination - but the author was obviously unaware of these. Maybe he was just in too much of a muddle by now to care. Exodus 9:8-11. Now it's hailstones so bad that every plant, every tree, every servant (for servant read slave) ***and even the livestock (that our story-teller has forgotten already that he killed off in the fifth plague before given them boils in the sixth) were harmed.*** It looks like our story-teller has learned from his earlier silly mistake with killing all the livestock too soon then having to resurrect them later. He mentions that some plants survive. Do I smell stinking fish again? *The greatest hail storm in all Egyptian history, apparently, but not worthy of being recorded.* Exodus 9:18-25. It's the turn of the locusts and it's suddenly obvious why some plants had to survive. *How could the locusts turn Egypt into a barren desert if the hail storm had done it earlier?* Good thinking there. Shame about the earlier boob! *Mysteriously, no Egyptian scribe appears to notice any of this or the inevitable famine and mass starvation which would have ensued.* Exodus 10:4-15. And for the penultimate trick, it's going to be dark for three days. *No one makes a record of this, obviously.* Exodus 10:21-23. The last 'plague' is not so much a plague as a ritual genocide. *Here our tale takes a nasty turn and the true character of the Hebrew god is revealed in all its glory - a petty, vindictive, homicidal psychopath who has not yet acquired the omniscience he will be granted later. He kills every firstborn Egyptian in a single night,* ***including the firstborn of all the cattle that died in the fifth plague.*** *For some reason he needs the Hebrews to leave a secret sign so he doesn't kill them too. Weirdly, he can't tell his own chosen people from ordinary Egyptians and doesn't even know where they live.* And he had been leading up to this, apparently, because after every plague he 'hardens the heart' of Pharaoh so that he wouldn't let the Hebrews go. He had actually been planning this genocide all along just to impress people with his powers. *And still no-one thought even this mass killing in a single night worth making a note of in any Egyptian records.* Exodus 12:1-30. And then, of course, Pharaoh could muster up 600 horses to pull the chariots ***from amongst all the dead livestock from the 5th plague*** (Exodus 14:7). Google *"Rosa Rubicondior: Origins Of The Exodus Myth"* ------------------------------------------------------------------ In addition, look up the below articles. *"Debunking Christianity: PATTERNS OF POOR RESEARCH- A Critique of Patterns of Evidence:Exodus"* *"For you were (not) slaves in Egypt: The ancient memories behind the Exodus myth - Archaeology - **Haaretz.com**"* *"Why the Exodus Story Has Value Despite Being Complete Myth - Psychology Today Australia"* *"Is the Exodus a Myth? - Worlds Beyond"* *"Historicity of Exodus and Moses - The Creatively Maladjusted"* *"Biblical Contradiction #81. When did the Exodus allegedly happen: during the reign of Rameses II (1279-1213 BC) OR in 1447 BC?"* *"Ten Reasons Why the Bible’s Story of the Exodus is Not True - by Tim Zeak - ExCommunications - Medium"* *"Why Moses Did Not Write the Torah - Thomas Shoemaker"* *"Sargon the Great and Moses - The Word of Me… Wordpress"* *"Contradictions in the Bible | Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them -- by Dr. Steven DiMattei"* *"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*

[@rocketmanshawn]

Someone has been listening to too many liberal scholars

[@duncescotus2342]

You got me. A broadside like that! Why my little Christian boat is sunk. Silly me. I must be such a dimwit to believe in a God who loves us enough to die. But here's the thing. You have to refute the NEW Testament. Have at it.

[@christianfrommuslim]

Have you heard of true/true/ related and true/true/unrelated? Simply because other Mesopotamian cultures have similar stories does not mean that one copied the other. Flood stories spread worldwide. What is interesting about Genesis and the other early books is that they accurately represent Bronze Age cultures, names, etc. in a way that shows they were not invented in the iron age. The TREND in Biblical archaeology is confirmation of more and more people, places, and cultures which fit with the way they are described in the Bible.

[@christianfrommuslim]

@@duncescotus2342 Don't let him shake you brother. The TREND in archaeological discoveries overwhelming confirms the Bible.