The Creepypastafication of native folklore is a big problem in the Paranormal community. I get so sketched out by nonindigenous creators claiming something is a Sk*nwalker or a W*ndigo
@julietfischer505625 күн бұрын
We only call it the 'Massacre at the Little Big Horn' because the Native Americans won. It was a proper battle, unlike the 'Battle of Wounded Knee,' in which mostly-unarmed Native Americans _who had surrendered_ were slaughtered by well-armed troops. The earliest European settlers east of the Appalachians didn't feel any guilt over killing Native Americans. The Puritans and Pilgrims saw them as devil-worshippers (if not devils themselves), and the accusers in Salem said a 'tawny man' (not the Black Man of European witch-trials) presided at their purported gatherings. The Puritan world was one where devils and demons threatened good Christians (the Puritans), and conflicts with the local tribes helped shape the Salem panic. Later on, the narrative shifted to 'civilization versus barbarism,' with Native peoples as the barbarians.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
yes, these are all great points
@Marlene-v8n19 күн бұрын
Romani 🤝 indigenous solidarity in having our cultures being constantly misrepresented in media, ESPECIALLY horror.
@apizzathatgiantforthesimpl519119 күн бұрын
I've always noticed (from a historical/psychological perspective at least) that humans tend to get a bad/eerie vibe in locations where mass genocide occur, especially if it makes them confront the trauma/consequences of said genocide. And I think that's largely where the "cursed burial ground"/"Indigenous supernatural forces are coming after white people now AAAAH" brand of horror comes from and why it started so heavily from the 70s and continues to this day. Like you touched on, it's a cultural manifestation of white guilt/fear of reparation, a terror that the past will quite literally come back to haunt us future generations for what our ancestors did. I absolutely loved this video. Also you are correct. Stephen Graham Jones is a fantastic writer!
@jupiti_o22 күн бұрын
I am so relieved to have this video. It deserves a million more views because NO ONE EVER ACKNOWLEDGES IT but it’s so fucking prevalent. I’m also SO GLAD you brought up wendigos and skinwalkers. Every time I see people freaking out about skinwalkers on tiktok I want to pull my hair out
@MountainDont25 күн бұрын
culture, history, AND horror? oh i have found my new home. thank you.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Welcome! I'm happy you're here.
@axolotlm109420 күн бұрын
There are so many amazing points made in this video that I could go on and on, something that always rubbed me the wrong way about the idea of "burial grounds" is a convenient way to ignore the fact that almost all of 'American' land bears indigenous blood, instead indirectly proposing that that suffering was only concentrated in small areas, and not systematic and nation-wide.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
EXACTLY!
@cadeallison110224 күн бұрын
This is a stellar video, wow. There is a severe lack of critical discussion about native representation in media, which is insane because so many of the movies we grew up on are absolutely abhorrent in that regard. With the growing political awareness on the internet you would think that we would be looking back and criticizing more than just Twilight. I hope this video gets more attention, it's really making me think (the hallmark of a good essay)
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
thank you so much ♥️♥️♥️
@ajhalkeright704319 күн бұрын
Having learned about skinwalkers and wendigos before their uptake in horror it really annoys me how misrepresented they are. I can't even imagine how much worse it must be for the people from those cultures.
@kiasax219 күн бұрын
No way! As a Cherokee Native, I'm so glad I found your channel because I've never heard the term Redsploitation before. While I don't like how our ancestors were being used, I have to say that coming to understand your ideas. As we Cherokees say, sgi, which means thanks! I'll be subscribing to your channel to enjoy and learn more from you.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Thank you for watching! I am so glad you found my channel!!
@TheRaiReport24 күн бұрын
Thank you for talking this topic and opening up the conversation. I often have the same problem with horror when it comes to African Traditional Religions (ATRs), especially Vodou.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
YES! I plan on making a video on that soon too, stay tuned!!
@annegrey378023 күн бұрын
I am so glad you mentioned Blood Quantum! RIP Jeff Barnaby. For books, I would also like to add "Looking for Smoke" by K.A. Cobell.
@julietfischer505625 күн бұрын
Misrepresentation of Native American (and other) lore and culture is older than dirt, it seems. From John Smith using the 'Christian hero rescued by non-Christian heroine' trope in his writings, to modern appropriation of non-Western ideas (without even acknowledging the source, many times), peoples as distinct as the Yazidis, Sami, Yoruba, Tlingit, and others have been used as props and display pieces. It was _almost_ understandable back when accurate information was difficult to find, but there are so many ways to learn about other cultures that it's insulting to do anything other than treat them with the respect they deserve. Really good stories can (and have) been written with that in mind. The 'Indian burial ground' is descended from the European use of burying grounds as havens for witches and other monsters. In Europe, nobody bats an eye if a filmmaker or writer produces the latest version of an abandoned village and possibly an undead witch/warlock in the nearby cemetery. There's plenty of lore about ghosts and such, and there's cultural continuity through the centuries in most nations. But, in the United States (at least), few writers bother with centuries-old cemeteries and church yards unless the story is specifically about descendants disturbing ancestors or vice-versa. Otherwise, the cause of any hauntings or other phenomena is almost always dead Native Americans with no regard for the beliefs of the peoples who lived in the area. Maybe someone remembers that the Spanish were in Florida and the Southwest, or they play around with Hollywood voodoo in New Orleans. The 'cannibal clan' goes back to Sawney Bean, or maybe even before those stories got started. But, again, it's one thing to tell a story of an inbred clan in Scotland, and another to do so about Native Americans without making it clear that they do not represent Native Americans. The only reason this is necessary is because of racist twats who can't tell the difference between a legitimate Native group and a fictional (or legendary) group of bogey-monsters.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and perspective! this adds a lot of context!
@Neku62824 күн бұрын
One thing to add about Andrew Jackson is that he ignored the Supreme Court's decision and just caused the Trail of Tears. Poltergeist, I think also used the whole stereotypical "built over a place where people died", mostly the "Indian burial grounds" trope. The people that made the Poltergeist franchise, they used real skeletons because it was cheaper than using fake skeletons.
@tapefiend23 күн бұрын
I'm glad you brought up Bone Tomahawk, especially the inclusion of Zahn McClarnon's character. It was like the director and producers knew people were going to say their depiction of the troglodytes was racist because they were coded as Indigenous so they had to get an Indigenous character in there to tell the other characters (and the audience), it's cool, it's not racist to brutally slaughter them all, we don't see them as our people either - like that was enough to preemptively get them off the hook. ETA: Way better picks with Slash/Back and Clearcut.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
yes exactly! his role feels like a last minute add in
@aqueousmutivity24 күн бұрын
Glad this was in my recommendations, hopefully it gets the views it deserves
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
thank you thank you! 🙏🏽
@gwencere938322 күн бұрын
A horror series that I think flips this trope on it head is The Terror, its about the lost Franklin expedition and the horror of colonial conquest. The expedition is doomed not because the land is cursed but because the British expeditioners murder an indigenous religious leader and untether the spirit that he was keeping in balance. One of the main characters is an indigenous woman and she doesn't have any romantic entanglements with the white men which I found refreshing as well. Some of the men are good people who try and help her and undo the harm they've caused but their goodness is not enough to change the fact that they are part of a violent colonial machine, good intentions do not save them in this show. Its really a great series and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys horror.
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
oh totally! The Terror is on my (ever widening) list of topics I hope to cover! Love that series! I haven’t seen many people discuss the Native aspect of it.
@judedante406724 күн бұрын
TL;DR - re: sympathetic depictions of Indigenous people, I think in those kinds of papers, the writers don't refer to sympathy as an unproblematic or praiseworthy thing, it's just a different way of being racist. Think Harriet Beecher Stowe showing Uncle Tom as a tragic figure versus DW Griffith putting whites in blackface and portraying Black people as animals or rapists or both. Both works are racist, but presented differently with different intentions. 14:30 - I've also read papers about how bigoted art can possibly be "sympathetic" to the marginalized groups they mis-portray. I think it's possible for a creator of these kinds of pieces to be sympathetic, but in a very ethnocentric, myopic, and racist way. That sounds contradictory at first, which you rightfully point out. Imo, "sympathy" in this context simply means not saying that all marginalized people deserve to be enslaved/sterilized/wiped off the face of the earth. It's a VERY low bar. Think of Harriet Beecher Stowe - a racist abolitionist. Uncle Tom's Cabin was very sympathetic to enslaved people. It also made a melodrama out of Black Americans' suffering, and was written by someone who a) had never been to the South and b) wanted all Black people to emigrate to Liberia. The Last of the Mohicans is sympathetic to Indigenous people in that the text says it's sad that the Indigenous population is being wiped out (in so doing, both perpetuates and romanticizes the "vanishing Indian" narrative; again, making melodrama out of BIPOC suffering for whites to be sad about). DW Griffith, someone I too plan to beat up in hell, is an example of someone who's not sympathetic to BIPOC people. Literally making Black people out to be cartoon villains and sex-crazed rapists. F Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby - another piece of art that is so unsympathetic that its racism (the scene with the Black people being called "haughty" because they dare to wear nice clothes and have a nice car in public; the entire Meyer Wolfsheim character) isn't even the focus of the book. It sort of leaks into it because it's so normalized in Fitzgerald's brain. Ofc I only mentioned one work depicting Indigenous people, but I assume people who write about redsploitation films use the term "sympathetic" in similar ways. Not because all BIPOC are a monolith, just because that seems to be a media studies/film history framework to use.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
yes! I agree with your point about sympathetic/unsympathetic portrayal! I think the bar is in hell 😅
@bradleevanravenswaay176120 күн бұрын
I’m not Indigenous but I read A LOT and I would recommend “Moon of the Crusted Snow” and its sequel “Moon of the Turning Leaves” by Waubgeshig Rice and “Taaqtumi: An Anthology of Arctic Horror Stories”
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
thank you for the recs! ♥️
@kenyett725 күн бұрын
First of all, subbed, this was VERY educational and eye opening. I want to make horror games and the first one I was thinking of involving a west Coast tribe and wanted to travel there first and explore so I could do them justice unlike a certain writer who included them heavily in her books. This has definitely encouraged me to ask questions and do more research than I initially thought was necessary. Clearly there's more work to be done and I want to be respectful but also educate potential gamers
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
thank you so much for subbing! good luck on your game!!
@Peertje30425 күн бұрын
I feel like indigenous cultures and Haitian culture are the worst victims of this genre
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
oh for sure. i’ll make another video about Haitian/African cultures being used as well, stay tuned!
@ladyredl321014 күн бұрын
19:05 this is the way the directors/ writers get around being called racist or the claims they’re indulging in tired tropes.
@jennifercoopman25 күн бұрын
Yes! The Only Good Indians is a fabulous horror book! Looking forward to trying your other suggestions. Thanks for posting!
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@VanessaVosloo24 күн бұрын
Thanks for the interesting video. My first exposure to Native Americans was in the 2003 version of Peter Pan. I thought it strange that they were in a fairy tale land. Then I watched Pocahontas, I found it sus, and when I learned the history of it I knew my suspicion was right. I'm South African and we had our own struggles with colonialism and racism, but I love learning more about other places. Seriously, what is it with Stephen King and Native Americans in his stories? And what's up with the Romani portrayals in Thinner for example? I didn't like Antlers. Bone Tomahawk is one of the movies I wanted to avoid and now I have more of a reason to. Thanks for this interesting video. And I loved the intro too. 😊
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
I'm glad you found it interesting! Thanks for watching! ♥️
@Burlesquemushroom12 күн бұрын
I've been thinking a lot about Zak Baggins constantly using "ancient Indian burial ground" as a "reason" for the haunting.
@FortheLoveofMonsters10 күн бұрын
he’s so lame 😅
@Auggie-yp6br21 күн бұрын
You did such a fantastic job on this video. Thank you so much!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
I appreciate it! 🖤
@Neku62824 күн бұрын
17:38 Steven King pretty much appropriated the Wendigo in his book, "Pet Sematary".
@gabyelizabeth962424 күн бұрын
Very insightful video. Made me reflect. Looking forward to more content!
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Thank you so much! I'm glad it resonated with you.
@89marble3021 күн бұрын
great vid. its nice to see more people discussing this topic, especially in a really informative video like this! definitely gonna check out some of these recommendations. as someone whos been in internet horror spaces for awhile it really has been disconcerting seeing just how skinwalkers and such have been getting treated. i mean one of the most popular guys discussing(summarizing wikipedia articles about) internet horror at the moment is literally called wendigoon and people do NOT like when you criticize that. people can get really hostile on the topic, which i find really unfortunate. hope more videos like this can help broaden the conversation to those unfamiliar/unknowing how perpetuating these things can be harmful. as i work on my own horror projects and dig into the tropes and classics i realize just how many popular stories and aspects of the genre appropriated the cultures into some homogenized plot point. like wow stephen king gets racist.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
yes I’ve learned his fans do not like criticism, the hard way! 😅
@jackfishcrow21 күн бұрын
A couple years ago I got a bug to try and dig up and watch a bunch of movies from first nations, indigenous culture,s and other similar filmmakers. I was pretty thrilled that most of my faves were on your recs, and now I have a couple more to watch. You asked for other recommendations, and I can add Don't Say Its Name by Cree filmmaker Rueben Martell, and Parallel Minds by Metis filmmaker Benjamin Ross Hayden. His upcoming project The First Encounter sounds pretty exciting also. A few which I either haven't been able to get hold of or haven't gotten to watching are Violet (2015 by Mark D Williams, not the short film), Hunting For Shadows (2016). BeDevil, Bearwalker, and my notes have a general recommendation for anything by Rodrick Pocowatchit. Quite probable you know some or all of these already, but trying to dig these movies out of the pit of redsploitation or generally exploitative "primitive savages" search results was, let's just say a lot. Anywho, love to see channels like yours, hope some of this stuff is helpful.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Thanks for the recommendations! I'll definitely add them to my watchlist.
@Neku62824 күн бұрын
What were your thoughts of "Indian in a Cupboard", both the book and movie?
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
wow I haven’t thought about that in YEARS. It might need a rewatch/read, I wonder if it holds up 🤔
@mitchellralston173920 күн бұрын
The "native American burial ground" trope comes from paranormal investigator Hans Holzer and also the Amityville case.
@weruinmovies19 күн бұрын
RE: Bone Tomahawk, I felt they really missed an opportunity, not only by failing to utilize Zahn McClarnon because he's a great actor (been a fan since Fargo), but they also dropped the ball with his character. There could've been a great interplay between him, a learned native professor, and Brooder, an arrogant, white, racist veteran. It would've added some much-needed tension and character development, and it could've ended up saying something greater than what it did. Yours are the first comments I've seen that actually mention the issues with this movie, and I appreciate it. I didn't hate Bone Tomahawk, but there was no doubt I was watching a throwback exploitation film that lacked the guts to be honest about it. I suppose it was easier for me to excuse, because I don't have that history of native exploitation in the back of my mind and I was able to compare it to movies like The Hills Have Eyes, or even The Texas Chainsaw Massacre; the trope of the "throwback psycho family" is pretty ubiquitous. But with that said, you're absolutely correct. I think S. Craig Zahler fully intended to make something like ancross between The Hills Have Eyes, Cannibal Holocaust, and all the old western exploitation movies he liked as a kid, and this was the one way he thought he could get away with it. Sorry for the long comment. Thanks for the video!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
YES! that’s a much more interesting dynamic than what was in the movie!
@teacherCF22 күн бұрын
For books, two great ones to start are Eden Robinson's Son of a Trickster (dark urban fantasy) and Cherie Dimaline's Marrow Thieves (post-apocalyptic scifi horror). Please add more recommendations in the replies!
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
Thank you for the recommendations! I'll add them to my goodreads list!
@leticiallime18 күн бұрын
22:59 i think that everytime i watch robot movies !!! you said everything really great video
@brennacoleman681523 күн бұрын
My 'first Natives' were Kaya'aton'my from the American Girl books and Katara (Arctic Native analog) from Avatar. Neither were perfect whatsoever, but I hope they were both at least a decent starting point (heroic characters with flaws and with reasonably depicted/fleshed out cultures). Any recommendations for 'good' Native characters (if you feel like it)? I've heard good things about 'The Only Good Indians', but it's hard to find any depictions universally decreed 'good' (moral OCD/scrupulosity is hell).
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
It’s so hard to find “good” Natives in media. I would highly recommend checking out the movies I suggest at the end. 🤗
@ozymandiascakehole358622 күн бұрын
We have this in western Europe with the Romani who were displaced and persecuted for centuries and are now still depicted as dirty minions of the devil. Robert Eggers Nosferatu is just the latest example.
@Ghoulishbatz21 күн бұрын
THIS IS SUCH A FUN WATCH AS AN INDIGENOUS HORROR FAN WHY ISN'T THIS MORE POPULARR IM SOBBING
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
I appreciate that! ♥️
@ScroogeMcDank20 күн бұрын
So glad to have found your channel! Thank you for all the education and your perspective.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Thanks for checking out the channel! 🖤
@sqweesh56720 күн бұрын
So glad this popped up on my feed, what an amazing and informative video!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
I'm glad you found it helpful!
@birdenthusiast542120 күн бұрын
Thanks for this video, it was very helpful for me as someone who is trying to unpack the sheer extent to which these tropes are embedded into the culture I grew up with. Just subscribed and looking forward to more of your insights!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
I'm so glad it was helpful! I'm excited to share more of my videos with you!
@fairyencyclopedia24 күн бұрын
Not horror but on the superhero end, I would reccommend Marvel's Echo, which features a disabled Native actress, Marvel's What If season 2, which features a Native superhero played by a Native actress & Black Panther: Wakanda Forever which has Indigenous Mexican characters & actors.
@raventame722123 күн бұрын
First video of you I watched and loved it! Very interesting!
@ezrafriesner837020 күн бұрын
I’ve just discovered this channel and you’ve hooked me right away. Amazing video!
@Helsingvania23 күн бұрын
Hi just a heads up! 6:30 you say the w word and the s word. Traditionally you're not supposed to say it in the places they originate from as it's meant to summon them, several groups have asked to avoid using the w and s word for their cultural importance.
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
yes, I thought about bleeping it out. But I talked to my Native community and friends and we talked about since I do not belong to that Native group, and I don’t have any cultural tie to them, that it was fine to say it. I understand the tradition, but it’s not my cultural tradition. I would love to hear more thoughts on this from Native voices.
@Dread_Mender19 күн бұрын
I subbed so fast - I love your vibe! Thank you for covering such an important topic.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Yay! Thank you!
@enderrosemultiverse126225 күн бұрын
Really enjoyed your take on these tropes in film and media, I def am going to add all those books to my future reading list!
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Yay, thank you!
@ChampagneKanyon23 күн бұрын
I am here for this. Absolutely stellar work 🖤
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Yay, thank you!
@elizabethharlett25 күн бұрын
Great video! Thanks so much for making it 🖤
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Thank you 🖤
@TyrantOfAlbion25 күн бұрын
This is so interesting!! It needs more views
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
I appreciate that!!! ♥️♥️♥️
@Neku62824 күн бұрын
Have there been any video games that were made solely by a First Nations video game developer, not with the tribe's influence?
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
I haven’t come across any yet but that’s a great question! If you’ve seen any, let me know.
@transplantman228721 күн бұрын
Really enjoyed this video and learned a lot. I feel like it’s something I was always subconsciously aware, but now it’s like I can pick it out of a lineup. The many examples were very helpful, as were the book and movie recommendations at the end.
@cassidyauld641324 күн бұрын
this is such a great video! you deserve way more views and subscribers, this is the kind of content we need in 2025
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
Aw, thank you so much! I'm so glad you liked it!
@ChampagneKanyon23 күн бұрын
27:05 why was I waiting for the twilight cameo 😂💀
@raquelnunes979321 күн бұрын
Instant follow. ❤ Growing up in Portugal i always saw the “burial ground” trope as a quick way to tell the audience the white people/ others were bad eggs. They were like cemeteries and no one would think to bulldozer one so if you are taking that land and desecrating it, you are in the wrong.
@badlyrandom21 күн бұрын
I'm deeply invested in watching this video but unfortunately Until Dawn's monster is something I can't hear about until I got an inch of snow around me. I'm still gonna leave a like and keep an eye on my weather 😅
@jackm.j.354922 күн бұрын
Instant subscription from this! Excellent job.
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
Thanks for subbing! 🖤
@GallowglassVT18 күн бұрын
I remember watching a documentary about the history of folk horror, and they bring up the burial ground trope during interviews with indigenous filmmakers, academics and elders. One of them said something that really stuck with me (I'm paraphrasing here, JFC); effectively, the entirety of the Americas is itself an "Indian burial ground" so them using the trope for specific sites is kinda morbidly funny.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Yes! I used that doc for references! Woodlands Dark and Days Bewitched!
@moonywoof.15 күн бұрын
thank you for the movie recommendations! i’m excited to watch blood quantum :))
@Neku62824 күн бұрын
13:30 Wasn't there also a huge boom in Davy Crocket merchandise?
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
I’m not sure! 🤔
@kmfdm521 күн бұрын
The gradual westernization of Algonquin and Navajo myths in general like the wendigo or Skinwalkers is something I find myself frequently discussing. And honestly don’t get why until dawn has such a huge following. It’s not even good game main topic aside.
@BathrobeKeck19 күн бұрын
Your cat is named for the cat from Bell, Book, and Candle. Love it.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Yes, my cat is Pyewacket! 🥰 🐈⬛
@rickc210222 күн бұрын
the best spirit guide was Nobody
@torytellstales21 күн бұрын
I forget what movie it was, but I believe it was some kind of comedy horror film that is basically about a zombie apocalypse taking place in the cowboy days, and the two cowboys who were the main characters in the movie had met a native american woman halfway in the movie who apparently had knowledge on how to defeat this zombie apocalypse, well(surprise, surprise), she turned her back on them and they became zombies and her reason for doing so was to "avenge her people", but the guys end up eating her and it turns them back to normal and the reason is because it turned out the native american girl had apparently put a curse on the town to make them zombies. I think its a really offensive stereotype to make native american characters being involved with putting curses on people, since it really paints them in a bad light. It also paints the white characters in the movie to be heroes, which in my opinion is the most racist thing you can do in a horror film, horror comedy or not.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
oh! that doesn’t sound familiar but if you think of the name please let me know!
@sffb829514 күн бұрын
This reminded me of all those scenarios I perused through Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu (trying my hand in being a Keeper), in which Native American culture is shown through the following: - A shady NPC guide who milks the players of money during the investigation, and the antagonist who has become a slave to the Great Old Ones (Black Devil Mountain, Cthulhu Casebook - You are literally required to aid in desecrating Native American burial mounds in order to play the whole scenario, which later reveals that it belongs to Natives who were enslaved by two alien frogs from space and were merked instead of being rescued (Adventures in Arkham) - More burial mounds desecration!! And by a white reverend who is the antagonist with the penchant for twisting another group's faiths (Breeding Ground, Cthulhu at the End of the World) - Alone Against the Wendigo scenario... - Ithaqua lmao (although as of the 7th edition, Chaosium switches to calling him the Wind-Walker and his children are simply mistaken for Wendigo) There is probably more. I haven't read ALL of Chaosium's books yet, but I imagine older material is more blatant with their portrayal (to be honest, even other religions outside Christianity are treated like they're subsidiaries of cults tf). Outside of the TTRPG, I also have a bone to pick with the Silent Hill franchise because their titular town was built on Native soil and apparently all the weird shit happened because of it. Makes me think it would be interesting to have a Native protagonist with ancestral connection to the town in order for this to be deconstructed from a typical lens. Other than that, I'm glad this video exists because it's ABOUT TIME someone encourages discussion about it. I sincerely believe we can have horror and Native cultures coexist....but it has to be on THEIR terms. And by that, I mean a more nuanced take when it comes to what goes bump in the night that can affect you while staying true to the Native experience.
@FortheLoveofMonsters12 күн бұрын
thank you for sharing your thoughts! ♥️
@MarshmallowAlien22 күн бұрын
1. Saw your reply to someone else about saying skin & wen, thank you for your friend's input on that. I know everyone is different, so I'm still gonna censor myself still just in case. 2. I have been a fan of wens for a long time now but realized I like a very appropriated version of them. I see a lot of differentiating thoughts on it, and I do my best to find what indigenous people think, but of course not everyone views it the same and wen was only a story in certain areas (from my understanding). Do you have any recommendations for more respectful portrayals of it or some good sources on it?
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
I’m so glad people are reevaluating the use of Native cultures. You know, unfortunately I haven’t had much luck finding respectful and accurate portrayals of W*ndigo in media. Which is saying something. For something so well known there’s very little Native involvement in it. Which is why I’m always very skeptical of the use of the W*ndigo in anything. If you find something please share it with me!
@aliasfakename315918 күн бұрын
If building on Indian burial grounds causes spooky things, then entire swathes of the Americas should just be permanent "contamination zones" where supernatural activity never stops happening. Someone should write that movie or book
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
as someone put it, “America is a Haunted House”
@charlieboone129811 күн бұрын
I'm from the other side of the Atlantic so my experience of Native themes (for worse rather than better,) has come via US media. Glad that my first exposure as a child was Last of the Mohicans rather than John Wayne, but besides that it's a fuckin desert of authenticity and I'm really glad I'm long enough in the tooth that Bone Tomahawk wasn't my intro. Thanks for the recommendations. Prey was outstanding and I loved Blood Quantum.
@FortheLoveofMonsters10 күн бұрын
thank you for watching from across the Atlantic!
@halcyon638 күн бұрын
I’m not indigenous, so this is just a personal observation, but it always felt weird when ppl used skinwalkers in horror. A quick google search will show more “are skinwalkers real?? Is my cat a skinwalker???” Than information about what they actually are, and according to Wikipedia, Navajos (is that the right term?) don’t often share info about them with outsiders.
@LokiMartin-i6s19 күн бұрын
Culture, history, horror AND a cat named Pyewacket? Subscribed! I remember coming home from first grade and my mother and I arguing about the scene in Addams Family Values. I questioned the depictions of native americans in tex avery cartoons I had seen and in Peter Pan and Pocahontas and wondered if they were racist. My mother jumped in and insisted that they weren't racist and we had a really bad fight about it. That was the day I learned I couldn't go to my mother with these questions because she was thoroughly cooked and stuck in her beliefs. So I would go to my nana and my aunt with my questions.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
“Hello!” - Pyewacket the cat 🐈⬛
@calebleland839020 күн бұрын
This was a fantastic discussion on this subject. I'm a white guy with some Native ancestry, but over the years I've only really learned about that history by actually studying on my own since film and television is saturated with racist, or at the very least, uninformed, tropes and charicatures. Amazing look at this topic.
@druidsongevergreens15 күн бұрын
I could listen to you talk about these things all day. I was indoctrinated with a different side of the white socialized bias and ignorance about native perspectives. My dad was a hippy who fetishized native people, and wished he was one. So I can understand (and even empathize with) the initial desire to be closer to the kind of gross generalizations of native culture and people, that we white people have perpetuated like, "an earth loving and mystical being that can make you cooler and deeper, more cultural by association" but damn if it isn't innately harmful. These infatuations are understandable but need to be addressed and considered; replaced by wisdom instead. I'm glad you're bringing forward attention, to show people how to question, and how to respond with more thought and empathy. I wish you years of voice and success in communications.
@FortheLoveofMonsters12 күн бұрын
thank you for sharing! yes I’m very familiar with Pretendians as we call them 😅 It’s just another form of dehumanization. Thank you for checking out the video 🫶🏽
@lazybird11322 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for pointing out Until Dawn's use of the Wendigo. Also have you read Bad Cree by Jessica Johns?
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
I have not! I will put it in my goodreads!
@orangeirony719915 күн бұрын
Goodness, you asking us to remember our earliest memory of seeing an indigenous person in movies reminded me of this old looney toons bit of bugs bunny dressed as a cowboy *literally* using the "one little two little three little Indians" counting song while nonchalantly shooting people and TALLYING his kills and then erasing half of one and going "oh🤭 that one's a half breed!" I am always floored looking back at old cartoons because it's ALL like that. Separately though, I always understood the Indian Burial Ground trope as a sort of "consequences of our actions" thing where instead of recognizing the harm caused white people tended to stick w the (build on, maybe?) "scary native Boogeyman" trope rather than confronting their actions or history. (Though that's not to say these beliefs arent perpetuated by nonwhites, tropes are often taken and built upon, which is why they wind up everywhere. Like you said it became a shorthand for "ooooo spoooky ghost!") It is a little tragic to still see the erasure of afronative people from both communities. (Not directed at you just a general comment based off of experience and observation) People's complex familial histories wind up getting flattened in a really tragic way when a descendant down the line isn't able to even attempt to reconnect w that lost part of their history due to several circumstances, and that's completely separate from the living breathing communties that are often ignored like the ones down in Louisiana which semi recently got some spotlight w the Mardi Gras preformances in... 2023 i think? (Though as I understand it it's honoring the several groups of indigenous peoples that helped many enslaved people escape via the fusion of Native American and West African Cultural Expressions done by both African Americans and Afro-Indigenous people) Preservation of the languages are important too, cause so many are endangered, so if I can help it im gonna keep trying to do my part, cause it's unfair to let such a huge part of the world and culture just fizzle out. I saw a video a long time ago of someone dubbing some cartoons into Algonquin, and more projects like that would be awesome to see! I did really love your video! Its always good to find/make terms for things that we see and want to have meaningful commentary on, and this is definitely an underrepresented area of conversation! There were certain things numbers wise I didnt know either. Like I knew in theory how big the western genre was, it was sort of America's big cultural export alongside/after minstrel shows, but to say like, "imagine if every fifth movie was a marvel movie?" I was *floored.* I also quite like that you had clear examples of what you were talking about, and youre really funny! You've certainly convinced me to subscribe! Looking forward to your next video🧡
@FortheLoveofMonsters12 күн бұрын
thank you so much for your thoughtful response! I thought about using that looney tunes clip but the video was long enough already so I went with a shorter one 😅 Thank you for watching ♥️
@allisonkotzig396322 күн бұрын
great video, thank you!
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@ellicedarkblue254122 күн бұрын
Ok this video deserves more than 350 likes (at the time of writing this)
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
I appreciate that! Hopefully I’ll get there!
@jaredwildbill9118 күн бұрын
26:59 honestly that could be just why I’m very meh on native rep in media(doesn’t matter on if it’s good or bad rep). just the sole fact on the bigger picture trying to show representation when ppl behind and in front of the camera, are just either not wanting to touch the tip of any specific tribe’s ideas of life. Or can only give just the tip for an audience that’s gonna be majority non-ndns, and hope that what happens is enough to dive into ndn world. For me a Umatilla member, when it comes to native representation: there’s gotta be something more than 𝒿𝓊𝓈𝓉 authenticity. And have to earnest about what you are making your projects for? For the audience that won’t touch a rez, or for a community that’s deeply dedicated for them. Cuz at this point I’m not trying to be culturally insecure in a media world where it’s just talk. Deeply appreciate this video very much!
@midnightdimensions1319 күн бұрын
I can definitely understand where you're coming from. My take on Until Dawn when it comes to Wendigos is that they appeared to explain enough of how a person becomes one. As for the cursed land trope, I think it's the idea that unwanted residents are disturbing land that was stolen from Native Americans. Or perhaps disturbing a cemetery filled with the bodies of Native Americans? Just the idea that the spirits could potentially be upset if those not of their tribe or people may attempt to live on said land. That's my best guess on the idea. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
@JohnMiller-zr8pl22 күн бұрын
"The peaceful and noble natives".
@josephineantoinette524524 күн бұрын
I really loved Prey. Also I 💯 agree that The Only Good Indians is an amazing read.
@bananonymoussupreme334520 күн бұрын
It's so weird this came up in my comments because I was chatting with my friends about Steven King's weird trope writing.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Mr. King needs his own video 😆
@kindredmaki810815 күн бұрын
Not horror related, but I had an Ojibwe professor (psychology) once who talked about how when he was growing up, the kids would play "cowboys and Indians" and everybody wanted to be the cowboy. Which. Yeah.
@FortheLoveofMonsters12 күн бұрын
yes, that is a common thing unfortunately
@atomicgoblin17 күн бұрын
I'm anishinaabe and me and my husband (who's white and a horror fan) often make jokes about my "supernatural" powers. It's our way of taking the piss out of unironic redsploitation.
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
we laugh to keep from crying 😅
@teejaykaye21 күн бұрын
Probably my earliest exposure to Native American characters was in Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmaron via Little Creek. im not Lakota so I can’t speak for authenticity in their depiction, but the characters were explicitly framed as more sympathetic and empathetic to our main horse character, they were framed as people trying to hold out against colonizers taking their homes, they were just… a people, with families and culture. I always loved Little Creek as a character as a kid. Still do today. Other than that, I’ve seen native Americans as props of horror in a lot of movies and shows and it’s always just. Okay yeah we’re doing this again. Sure. Typical. Uninteresting. Sad. Even my own horror book set in Colorado that I’m working on has a Native American supporting character and love interest (he’s a paramedic) but other than him just, being there, the horror doesn’t really rely on any of the typical Native American tropes. At least, I hope it doesn’t.
@x.strangewerewolf.x946120 күн бұрын
I love this video! I’ve been obsessed with horror for years but hate how it treats Indigenous peoples. I hope there’s more horror that comes out made by Indigenous people!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Me too!! ♥️
@screaminmeani24 күн бұрын
Now my fav utubers are you and Nyxfears
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
OMG!!! That’s so kind 🥹 I’m in good company! ♥️
@picahudsoniaunflocked542620 күн бұрын
I’d already subbed liked belled etc but it was CLIPPING THE MIC TO THE SKELE-HAND that forced me to comment. (bell book + candle reference too? I love the movie other than the ending, bc obv she should keep her powers lol.)
@FortheLoveofMonsters19 күн бұрын
yes! my cat is named Pyewacket after the movie! 🥰
@megansawyer277814 күн бұрын
I noticed Stephen King popped up on you example list quite a few times. He likes to use Native American curses, legends, and ghosts as a basis for a lot of his stories. I think he believes it adds an extra flavor of mysticism to his stories, like the fact that it's indigenous means that whatever curse or monster the characters are dealing with is beyond comprehension. The forbidden knowledge of how to defeat this evil was lost to time, which plays into what you mentioned about creators forgetting that there are real life Native people still alive right now with a full understanding of how their own culture functions.
@FortheLoveofMonsters12 күн бұрын
oh yeah, Mr. King probably needs his own video. 😅
@pop00069022 күн бұрын
Good video. Especially regarding Bone Tomahawk. That was a movie that a lot of folks praise, but its narrative framing rubs me the wrong way (especially the movie wanting you to sympathise with the most racist character of all people). The director of that film is also I believe heavily conservative leaning so.....take that as you will. And yeah that aside that movie imo is very overatted imo, there are way better Western/Horror movies out there imo. I'll concede. I do love the film Ravenous, but yeah, you can still criticise its use of the Wendigo.
@FortheLoveofMonsters21 күн бұрын
Yes! Why is the racist the one we are supposed to identify with?? I’m not surprised about the director. I still enjoy Ravenous too!
@kiasax219 күн бұрын
Oh, no I know I'm going to like you very much because you named unit cat Piwacket from Bell, Book, and Candle! My wife and I love that movie!
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
Right? I love that film! It’s a classic!
@Sealgurl200219 күн бұрын
I don’t really like horror, so the only thing that I can recommend are some of Che Jim’s horror videos that he has posted on his social media
@B.Arthur25 күн бұрын
🧡 from Salish lands as well
@FortheLoveofMonsters23 күн бұрын
🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
@SpriteSoda-h6t20 күн бұрын
I finished read the good indians about a month ago!
@queertearscreations21 күн бұрын
Not a movie but I love the book Bad Cree by Jessica Johns its phenomenal! I read it like a year ago and I think about it oooooffftennn
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
yes! it’s on my goodreads list!
@mschrisfrank242018 күн бұрын
Omg, I literally never thought about how weird having indigenous people in Neverland is! (In my defense, I hate Peter Pan and try not watch/think about it.)
@SeasDund9 күн бұрын
really great video, thank you! bone tomahawk genuinely one of the worst movies ever. just insane 1930s style eugenics racism and extreme gore for the whole runtime. i saw it back when it came out in 2015 and i havent seen a worse movie since. and at the time i felt like i was going insane because soooo many horror movie reviewers were obsessed w/ it 😑😐 i think the fact that a movie can come out in 2015 and use p much the same tropes and language used against native ppl in the 1900s and recieve so little backlash rlly says something about the us film industry's continuing perception of native people. in that no progress has been made in 100 YEARS.... they do not see native people as real people in a real place, but rather as symbols i think that we are maybe seeing the blossoming of new indigenous-led media genres around the world. hopefully things will get better in the future when the media landscape becomes less pale and more accessable
@ronanmaebee22 күн бұрын
ah right in my niche thank u
@lucasacosta210417 күн бұрын
have you seen Eureka from Lisandro Alonso?, not an horror film but you may be interested in it
@FortheLoveofMonsters16 күн бұрын
I have not! Thank you for recommending it!
@darnellsimpson441320 күн бұрын
OH NO, you're coming for us all!!!
@tabbitee10 күн бұрын
I wonder if the whole 'burial ground' thingie came because colonial-era Europeans had their own whole Thing with consecrated ground. It would totally seem likely that they would a) assume that every culture must actually be like theirs, really, but also b) can't be like theirs in a good way, therefore good things of their own must be bad when done by the 'other'. Somehow it does tickle my Catholic raised brain that the subconscious association of consecrated ground with 'pagan' practices must therefore come to something devilish in their minds. Or idk, maybe it's just another gesture of callous cruelty in trivialising a native practice into a tool of entertainment. Who even knows.