How Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Work - Watts 500800 Review

[@AlfonsoRamirez-fg5tm]

This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. kzbin.infoUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).

[@stevend984]

Hard to believe I'm the first commenter...I'm new to all this re-cir pump stuff but after buying and refurb/remodeling my mobile home and final resting place I decided to try this system for my kitchen sink...which is way on the other end of my place. So I found one of these units on Ebay and installed it. For me the install was a piece of cake, but I'm very mechanically inclined. I only needed one medium crescent wrench... Done! Beware...the two main fittings in and out of the pump use a "ONE" way valve. Once installed I had questions so I contacted the tech service hot line provided with the literature. I was amazed at how quite this unit is...as the tech guy said... these pumps are quiet and some are very quiet. My other concern was that the motor/cartridge housing get fairly hot. The Tech guy confirmed that yes it does...when the pump is operating. After 24hrs this has been confirmed. OKAY...now here's the rub. Instant "HOT" water? Not gonna happen. Hot water within a minute is acceptable. Now for the rub...The way this works is that it keeps the hot water circulating thru your water system...hot side to cold side constantly, or should I say warm side when not in use. The pump thermo sensor controls this. BUT...on the flip side...if you want "COLD" water it take as much or more time for that to happen...hence the rub or trade off. So for me...instead of waiting "Literally" 2 minutes for warm to hot water...I get "warm" water pretty much at the hit, and the hot within a minute...which is much better than my original system. So... okay...it does a pretty good job. Now the final test will just be time & reliability. I did a LOT of research and shopping around...and some of these pumps are ridiculously expensive! This original post was from an Eastman Nevercold 70601 under sink unit video. I do a lot of business with Amazon and the Eastman water heater top mount unit on Amazon is under $300 bucks. But essentially the same unit under sink mount is over $500 bucks! I don't get that. If anything it should be the same or less and they would sell a ton of these under sink units. They are really easy to install. So there's my take...worth a couple hundred bucks...and I'm reasonably satisfied...and that's no easy task.

[@buckeye4228]

Good Job, The question that I have is with the advent of smart plugs... would the implementation of a smart plug be a good option in lieu of the timer. My assumption is that if power goes off for a couple hours then is has to be reset. It would also allow one to turn on the unit "on demand" in addition to any time schedule that are set. Being network attached, it would not require any reset for the power being off. I know the Grundfos unit has a level of battery backup but as you point out is the more costly option.

[@jimboone3390]

Excellent - video answered my main question that I couldn't find in the Amazon listing.

[@geost2901]

How do you know which sink is the furthest from the water heater? The furthest could be the sink upstairs or another sink depending on how the pipes were installed

[@bigdog8008]

For many people (those with water heater in basement) -- by far the best system for hot water recirculation is a gravity type system. Always hot water in hot water side, always cold water in cold water side. No pump required. No worrying about setting timer. No hot water in the cold water line when pump is running.

[@danflaherty1132]

Great video! I have one question: When the pump's timer is on, does the pump run all the time or only when the sensor at the sink "tells" it to? Thanks.

[@bobjohnson6371]

Well done video, thanks for posting it. I just installed one, have about a 40' run to the kitchen sink. Used to take a good 30 to 45 seconds to get hot water. It definitely helped with that, But, it takes even longer to get the cold water back to the faucet for a cold drink now. I'm retired and home all day, so have the pump running most of the day. Also the hot water heater runs a lot more now. Both hot and cold water lines in the run are insulated. It's certainly a convenience, but not a water or energy saver. I ended up running a separate line for a cold water faucet with filter for the sink.

[@fortunatedad7695]

This is not a perfect solution but if you set your pump for peak times of hot water use, you won't have trouble getting cold water. This system is not meant to be running all day

[@ruiibanez]

I have two water tanks set up in Parallel - where do I install this circulator?

[@guerradan1958]

I have watched a few vids on this subject. I thought the pump does not operate until you open on the hot water valve. What I still wonder why the timer? The pump is on stand by. Isn’t it. Good vid

[@kevinwonsetler3777]

What happens of pump is on and valve is closed when 98° is reached? Pumping against dead head?

[@ryancolebourn3060]

When the valve closes, isn't the pump then pumping against a closed system? Is that not bad for the pump?

[@williamfan3945]

Thank you for the video. Question about the sensor valve. If I have 6 sinks, I don't need one for each. Right? Like you said, install the sensor valve under a sink that is furthest from the water pump. So I only need to install 1 sensor valve for the whole house. Right? Thanks.

[@kdeh21803]

We did this with this unit..... the cold water spigot in the sink works just fine after a few seconds it gets cold as usual....the problem we have is the shower in our master bath. The cold line is "always" scalding and never gets cold....even when we turn the hot water spigot completely off the cold always stays scalding..... what gives?

[@matanipale4281]

Hello, great explanation really simple to understand. i do have few questions please if you can reply quickly because i might need to install it in the next day or two. 1. does the valve the black plastic piece has to be installed in each unit separate? i have a multi house with several units, and they all use 1 water heater. 2. is there an option for the timer to be set for 2 times a day, moring and evengings? so people can enjoy it before and after work? 3. i did so where is the link for the install if you can add it please. 4. in those hours that you decide to turn the timer off or actually is off automatically, or for example if i want to turn it off all the summer time, because people rather have colder water, will that make the water in the pipes regular cold again, and fast cold water? or is it has to be set to heat while in installed on the water heater? thank you very much

[@PPF24]

What the censor valve that goes under your furthest sink does, is it has a thermostat valve. When the water is at a certain warmth/heat it closes. Trapping hot water at your faucet. When the temp drops to a certain point that valve opens up and cycles that water through the cold line back to the water heater to be warmed up again. It’s not in a constant cycle through your lines. If you didn’t have that censor that’s what would be going on.

[@stephen2220]

Do you use the heat trap installed in the anode rod with this recirculating pump or does it have it have to be removed first?

[@mikefuqua8727]

After installation of the Watts Hot Water Recirculating Pump,I started using it right away. As long as the pump is running all is fine, but when the pump shuts off I have pipe bumping at the faucet where the bypass valve is installed, when running water in the kitchen. I installed an arrester on the Hot water side at the by pass valve, and still have bumping when running water at the kitchen with the pump off, I turn on the pump and it stops. Should it take an arrester on the cold water too, to stop the bumping?

[@marchyman5061]

Best video and explanation I’ve seen on this subject. Question: Does the pump have to overcome the water pressure on the cold water side, in order to force the cooled down “hot” water back to the water heater? And if so, isn’t the higher pressure a potential problem? Thanks.

[@TheWilferch]

Yes... ..as both the hot and cold water loops are actually part of the same water "system" in your house....yes, the pump provides this small extra pressure to overcome the pressure that exists in your cold water loop. It's not much more pressure, only 2 psi more or so. Some folks ask, "where does this extra water going into the cold cicuit go?". Think for a moment, it's all part of the same "loop" circuit in your home. The amount of water taken from the hot side is simply being displaced to the cold side. Even if it was "more".....it goes ultimately back to your hot water tank and replaces the water IT would normally get frssh from the city....no problem. Some folks don't use a pump, but then you depend on opening up a cold water side of the faucet to get cold water flow...and now the cold water side momentarilly is lower pressure than the hot side...and you get hot-to-cold leg flow through the under-sink valve the same way....only less strong.

[@fortunatedad7695]

@@TheWilferch do you know what the velocity is of the pump? I ask because some places here get 35 to 40psi water pressure and some 50. I'm just wondering if we are to expect excessive pressure while the pump is on. Thanks

[@TheWilferch]

@@fortunatedad7695 ...You can ask for the specific pump curves from the manufacturers, if you know how to read them. In general, these are low pressure pumps...all you need is a small amount of "ooomph" to transfer over from the hot side to the cold side of the mixing valve under the sink. Most pumps will deliver about 2 psi of extra pressure....I'm quite sure no more than 6 for the various models.

[@fortunatedad7695]

@@TheWilferchoh ok, thanks for the explanation! 😀

[@TheWilferch]

@@fortunatedad7695 .. no problem. Take care.

[@roncarlton1882]

I recently replaced the pump with a new one. The question I have is how to connect to an under sink water filter? I m not sure of the correct piping for it. The sensor valve seems to be working correctly as the inlets for Hot and Cold to the sensor valve are piped per the instructions to the sensor inlets. However for the cold outlet side with a standard water filter cartridge housing water filter how should it be connected? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[@legalsolutions07]

How long have you seen this particular pump last along with the valve? I noticed the warranty is only 1 year where the Grundfos is 2 years or up to 30 months from date of mfg. If it's a $50 difference between the others and this one IMO the extra $50 is worth at least an extra year of warranty.

[@johnvettel3520]

Failure times usually follow a "Bathtub Curve" - meaning that most failures occur in the first month or less. Once it goes beyond that time, the number of failures usually ramps up slowly. A reasonably made pump like this should last 5 years or more. My experience is that warranties that extend beyond the first year are a waste of money. Therefore, I feel that spending the extra money is probably not worth it. I'm an engineer.

[@Scott-eo7lj]

No. You didn't listen to this wise man. He said the only difference is his is blue and the other is red. 😂🤣😂

[@TheWilferch]

Heres the rub.....both Grundfos and Watts are the same unit.....the Watts is cheaper because you get a shorter warranty. Both are built the same, meaning....the Grundfos is NOT built better.. The extra cost is a sham....you're not getting a "better" piece that supports a longer warranty....you're getting the same piece, but ONLY a longer warranty from Grundfos. Many companies do this...and I think it's a marketing sham. Se here for more---> besthotwaterrecirculators.com/watts-500800-vs-grundfos-595916/ If you want to spend more for a warranty.....go for it....but do understand the piece is not warranted longer due to the manufacturer offering a better unit that is built better....it's simply ONLY a longer warranty. Seeing how difficult it is to claim anything under warranty nowadays....personally, I'd go with the cheaper unit and take my chances.

[@westfield90]

I’m just confused with this device. Do you set it to be on each and every time you think you will be needing hot water. So in other words most people in my household will be showering between 7 and 9 am. So do I need to have it on during that whole 2 hour block or can I turn it on for an hour at 7-8 and expect it to be hot still at 9am? Secondly during the evening we will be expecting hot water so do I have it running between 4pm to 9pm or do I turn it on for an hour and it then still delivers hot water for the remaining time. In other words when it’s not running so you get cold, lukewarm water? Do you waste water by waiting for it to be warm? Having it be on too frequently won’t that cost your gas bill to skyrocket since you’ll be having the water heater running to keep the water hot?

[@mikefa5891]

Good informative video!

[@Nifty-Stuff]

Great video! Question: Does the pump have to go at the hot water heater, or can it go under the same sink as the bridge valve (or anywhere else in the hot-water line between the heater and the valve)? I would think the location (beginning or end of the same water-line) wouldn't matter where in that line the pump goes, no? Thanks!

[@Android_Warrior]

The pump goes on the water heater were at the hot inlet and the sensor under the bathroom sink farthest from the water heater.

[@danc2014]

if you put it under the sink it makes pump noise and takes up space but it will work. Note if you have a branch valve, this may not pump water to that side.

[@ThebrownFREEK]

Great video thanks!

[@slop9424]

Can this tipe of pump be install in a boiler?

[@deanbenjamin792]

I'm considering this system but I have heat traps on my water heater. Do they have to be removed for this system to work?

[@SBinVancouver]

In researching this yesterday, I see a mention of them not being compatible with water heaters with heat traps.

[@colinwirral5032]

When the pumped hot water goes through the sensor there is mains pressurised cold water on the other side of the sensor, how does that work?

[@bspottek8665]

Could the pump also be mounted under the sink? Long as the pump is hooked straight to the water valve then hook up the sensor valve it’d be the same as putting the pump by the water heater.

[@TheWilferch]

Other companies make under-sink specific pump and valve units.....think Laing and also ReadyTemp, etc.

[@fortunatedad7695]

Do you know the gallons per minute rating for that pump is? I was thinking of installing this for my mom but should she be expecting a higher water pressure at the taps? Thanks

[@ZteveW]

I connected the pump a day before I installed the little circulating piece. Do you think I did any damage to the pump considering the water wasn't circulating through the pipes?

[@fortunatedad7695]

Your ok because the pump runs throughout the day even when the valve is closed because it's reached the ideal water temperature. It will strain the pump to some degree but these pumps are pretty durable. Just don't leave the pump running all day.

[@fidelalonso3262]

Hi there, How hot the water gets on your cold line for us to use, it lets say when someone is getting a shower and someone else is using the sink faucet? Pump is going to be pushing hot water into the cold lines and eventually all the way back to the water heater, isn't it? also will try to push the hot water back to the street, do we have to install a check valve between water mete and house to prevent water to go back to the street? Thank you

[@arealmaintenanceandrepairl1103]

no the valve is designed to close once hot water hits it so you will get kind of warm water in the cold line just the temp befor the valve closes

[@HassanAlmaateeq]

Would it work under pressurized cold water pipes?

[@stevereid7140]

yes, all pipes are constantly under pressure from the city water supply. The pump merely moves already pressurized water in a loop back to the supply.

[@dm7097]

I don't understand how this will push pressurized hot water through another pressurized cold water line? Wouldn't it just dead head? I would think to work properly, you would need to run a return hot water line back to the tank.

[@cantcurecancer]

That would be the ideal way to do it. I believe with this double t-line, which would be installed at the farthest faucet, the hot water outlet is the cold water inlet. The water will make it's way all the way back down to your water heater's inlet, effectively creating a loop. I think having this is OK for instant hot water, but having warm water in your cold line is not good. Everyone knows not to drink hot water, because of the possibility of lead and whatever the hell else is floating around at the bottom of your water heater. So if I turn on a cold water faucet, I'd have to let it run to drain that warm water from the lines before I can take a drink. Running a return line is the best solution. Some instant water heaters have recirc pumps built in to take advantage. Unfortunately, it'd be incredibly laborious to run return lines from all the hot water receptacles in your house back to the water heater.

[@dm7097]

@@cantcurecancer I appreciate the reply/information, and I guess it works, but it's just a bit hard to picture how it works efficiently.

[@TheWilferch]

@dm7907....Think this way....the hot and cold legs of your system are still part of ONE system tied into your water heater, which itself gets water from a city line. The water you TAKE OUT of the hot line and then push INTO the cold line....is simply displacing it from one area to another....no issues. Same total volume.

[@edgarbaghramyan4322]

Great video. Can anyone please tell me if this is ok to install in house that has pelican whole house filtration system? I am concerned that the sensor valve will push the cold water back to the nutru softener and cause issues? Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks.

[@davidhorne2326]

Ideal situation is to pipe a dedicated hot water return line with a aquastat to cycle the pump on and off. Not always possible, so this is the next best.

[@mariaschwerdtfeger6208]

Will this unit be a good idea to purchase if I have one bathroom sink that is on an exterior wall that freezes?

[@FestusHaggen1]

It'll works very well from preventing pipes from freezing.. I have installed one in every rental property I own for the soul purpose to prevent pipes from freezing. I turn them off during the summer months in hopes for longevity of the pump.

[@ningningj]

Does it work well with tankless water heaters? Would it cause the heater to be turned on continuously? Thanks.

[@besthotwaterrecirculators1928]

There is a unit made specifically for tankless systems: amzn.to/2ktz9y6

[@csshunley]

From the manufacturer: "Not for use with tankless water heaters".

[@JLRod317]

Funciona con calentadores de paso? Tipo bosch therm 8000s

[@i3diamonds]

Would it be better if I installed 2 valves, one on each side of the house?

[@besthotwaterrecirculators1928]

Yes, you'll get a better result with that setup.

[@laurabarbato3204]

We have a tankless water heater..can you still install this device.

[@therbeeo5364]

Yes

[@philmcafee343]

How many time slots can the timer be used for?

[@maxinemarshall4816]

It's a simple timer, basically the same as one you would use for Christmas lights.

[@wanaraz]

If your hot water is 40 feet away it's still going to take as long as it did before to get to the shower head or sink.

[@frankpalomino7417]

Wouldn't this pump raise the water psi way to high for appliances and faucets when its on and shortening their life?

[@stevereid7140]

No, it doesn't raise pressure at all. The pump merely moves the water thru the pipes.

[@ronaldcook3840]

I bought one and it did increase the water pressure. I had to take it back because it wouldn't work for me.

[@lyfekyng81]

In minute 2 your a little wrong by saying it’s always flowing through the temperature sensor valve… the valve opens when it detects the water temperature on the hot side is 90 degrees or less give or take 4 degrees… the temp valve under the sink will open and allow hot water to flow to the cold side (that’s where the pump pushes it through) the temp valve closes when it reach about 100 degrees or so… yes your cold water will be like for a little while but remember it’s mixing with the cold water so by the time you go to use the fixture it may even be cold alrdy you won’t even notice it.

[@ShelterRockAdvisorsUpchurch]

I've had mine installed for about 3 years now and it just "quit" working... I took it apart and noticed the "wheel" inside easily stops turning... was wondering if that could be the reason it's no longer pumping... any suggestions on fixing that or what are my options other than purchasing another pump...

[@Spencerbuildsit]

JerryNDiane Upchurch. Impeller is seized? If you can't free it up, you're done

[@utube4greenfuture]

Should've got a Readytemp, they're calcium proof and hard water friendly. Not to mention the control that minimizes demand and extends the system life.

[@TheWilferch]

@@utube4greenfuture ...problem with ReadyTemp is if you need 2 cross-over locations...say at opposite-end bathrooms of the house....you are buying TWO units....pumps and all !!, because ReadyTemp is a module of pump and cross-over valve. At $370 a pop....that would be $740 for two locations. PLUS...mounting the pump under each sink requires a local plug at each location. How many under-sink cabinets have a GFI rated plug right there?....here's another $X00 cost for an electrician. In contrast.....you can buy a Grundfos or Watts system for under $200 ( one pump at the water heater), and add another cross-over valve for under $50, and you're done, if you need 2. . No doubt....if you have hard water issues you may have to replace more often ( or take valve or pump out and soak in a calcium-softenig solution...maybe you can save the old pieces).

[@schGjS]

I think I will be installing one of these but could I just run the sensor cold return back to the cold input on the water heater? I have soft water on the hot line to the kitchen sink, but hard water (for drinking) on the cold. I have access to run the line in my basement back to the water heater. If I do run a separate return, what size line would be adequate?

[@marcustheplumber]

1/2 Inch would be fine for a recirculating line. It's just moving the water around, no real need for heavy velocity or volume.

[@ruppb]

I would run 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch tubing for the return. You would not need the thermostatic valve, so that savings could help pay for the return tubing. You're really looking for a slow dribble of water so 1/2 inch is way oversized. Friends of mine have done this without the use of a pump, but then you're relying on the natural flow of water based on the temperature difference. In other words, it may or may not work for your system.

[@rickjones78]

if the cold water line has to wait for cold water, does that mean when you flush the toilet, is it flushing with Hot water?

[@stevereid7140]

Not hot, bot possibly slightly warm though. The valve closes when the hot water reaches it and stops hot water from entering the cold side of the supply line.

[@dontblameme6328]

It will be just warm enough to melt your brick turds.

[@fortunatedad7695]

@@stevereid7140 with that being said are you having overly pressured water coming out of the hot side?

[@goodmandiad2713]

Great Video but those mixing valves suck and are not reliable. What they cause is the cold water in most of the house to become hot. I have tried this and I am currently looking for a way to run a dedicated return line. In a ranch you could wait over 3 minutes for the hot water at the far end of the house.

[@rdy4trvl]

I think a dedicated return is the way to go if possible. Who wants warm "cold" water.

[@vanessapham2486]

A plumber installed this Watts hot water recirculating pump last August. After 14 months, the pump starts making vibration buzzing loud noise. I asked the plumber who installed this Watts hot water recirculating pump and he said he doesn’t know why and he can’t fix it. He told me that he will replace a pump with the cost of $450.00 . That’s is too high. Is anyone have the same issue as mine? Any advise or video how to fix the noise issue? Thank you in advance!

[@youseffattal2866]

I have one cold water pipe that get frozen because of a poor insulation somewhere inside my walls. Do you think that this will help the cold water line to have warmer water in it if I schedule it to Run every 2-3 hours or so. It's kinda a different use but I'm just trying to find a solution without opening alot of drywall and searching

[@georgegreenhalgh993]

No,hot water freezes faster then cold.It would probably make it worse as far as freezing

[@maryradicke6898]

Myth. Not true.

[@TheWilferch]

@@georgegreenhalgh993 ...wrong on the part of the answer that suggests this won't work. It will help both hot and cold lines from freezing. I have the same issue....and instead of having the timer set for partial use during the day ( for the purpose of getting hot water during the hours I most likely will use it)..instead....for freeze protection....if I get a forecast for 2 days of freeze weather here in the South....I'll set it to be "Always on" for these 2 days......both hot and cold lines will be above freezing temp. And yes....under more normal conditions....hot water lines exposed to freezing temps tend to freeze before cold water lines....but that has nothing to do with how this system can help.

[@nirwitkowski9134]

Hello everyone - I was about to get this solution installed but then a friend who is an engineer in the field warned me that the "side-effects" of this solution are: 1) the cold water in the circuit will no longer be cold 2) when the pump isn't active and the hot water cools down the valve opens and the hold and cold water mixes - so you get a warmish water a few meters down each of the cold and hot water tubes. Can anyone here comment on this based on your experience using the product ?

[@fidelalonso3262]

How hot is going to be the cold water?

[@u2ooberboober]

Fidel Alonso the black valve will stop hot water from going to the cold side. its has a thermostatic valve in it...

[@besthotwaterrecirculators1928]

It ends up being like the opposite of how your water felt before installing the pump. So it will be warm, but gets cold after 15-30 seconds or so.

[@Red_Twizzler]

Circulating hot water in your cold water line is a terrible idea if you like instant cold water. There’s also the whole bacteria thing.

[@azizsazman6346]

Dead on arrival. I paid a plumber $200 to install and uninstall this pump because it was dead on arrival. Don't buy one or if you do, save your receipt & box for a few months in case you have to take it back to the store.

[@retiredhooper4168]

Dude!....Volume too low!!

[@Chinlau124]

Most Newer water heaters have heat traps rendering this type of recirculation pumps useless

[@williamd2451]

Heat traps can be easily removed

[@williamd2451]

Heat traps can be easily removed

[@Gabash24]

These are bullshit. Also hot on the left cold on the right.

[@michaellicitra7632]

This is such a stupid idea. You are heating not only the hot water system piping but also the cold water system piping. So instead of running the hot water until it gets hot you will run the cold water until it gets cold. ???? what about the additional dissolved metals in the hot water and the definite consumption that will occurr as a result of using the cold water. Come on this is ridiculous!

[@AtomX71976]

exactly, water from the hot water heater is undrinkable, now the cold water lines are polluted with dirty water from the hot water heater.

[@thomascollier4913]

I agree let's talk about the warm water that goes to the ice maker & your water softener it will just fill up.

[@stevereid7140]

@@thomascollier4913 Water softeners don't fill up. The water flows thru the closed tank inside the water softener. Your water never flows thru the salt chamber.

[@TheWilferch]

The cross over valve under the sink is multi-component. A thermal device closes the valve transfer from hot to cold when the hot line reaches 90+ degF, and furthermore there is a one way check valve inside, that prevents the cold water from entering the hot water line at ANY point of operation. So yes....the cold water line will MOMENTARILLY be tepid warm when you open the cold side of the faucet, but only for a moment or two...and is nowhere near the time it otherwise may take the hot line to get "hot" without this device. Water being undrinkable from an opeational home water tank is an overblown concern seeing the usual high turnover it has.

[@rdy4trvl]

Run a dedicated return line instead of using the cold line. True, this isn't necessarily practical in an existing installation but more realistic in new construction.