How Hydronic Heating Systems WORK (diesel water heater)

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We bought our Eberspacher diesel hydronic heating system to build a radiant underfloor heating system in our DIY van conversion, and in this video, we explain how hydronic heating systems work, and how we are going to use our diesel hydronic heating system to have hot water and hot air. We show a simple diesel hydronic heating diagrams on how to plumb everything together.
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#hydronicheating #hydronicheatingsystems #dieselwaterheater

[@Dylan_Hertzler]

I don’t usually comment on videos but I am building the exact same system and have noticed a fundamental error in your plan. It took me weeks of research to overcome so I will try to save you some time. Currently you will have a hot floor every time you want hot water. In the winter that is okay but for summer camping it is not ideal. Floor heat needs to be run on an independent loop controlled by a Thermostatic Mixing Valve (TMV). This will allow you to control the temperature of your floor separate from your glycol heat loop. Without this your floor will become uncomfortably hot. I have some routing diagrams I can give you that I got from a guy that sells kits of this system we are trying to reengineer. Additionally I saw in another comment that you could hook this system to your engine. It is a good plan, I am doing this, make sure if you choose to you run it through a heat exchanger so you are not running vital coolant all over the vehicle.

[@FreedomStrider]

Well spotted that we didn't mention that, but we haven't forgotten about it. We are planning to put a TMV and bypass line in, but for simplicity's sake, we didn't get into it this video. And when we first install this system, that will indeed be the case until we get used to working with the system, and then we'll put in the valves. We're designing it in a way where we can add things to the system later down the line. If you could send us those diagrams, that would be great, you can email it to us at [e-mail] - Cheers! 😊

[@garbi8526]

Could you share these diagrams please?! It's going to be easy to upload to mega/drive/dropbox or something! Have a nice day!

[@R0ssee]

Hi, could share your diagrams? I can share mine 😊 Me and my partner are building this as we speak. We found a way to do full heated floors with an added thickness of only 2mm. 35mm total floor thickness.

[@garbi8526]

@@R0ssee sure!! Will be great! Thanks for that

[@ychefla]

@@R0ssee This sounds really cool. Is there a way you could share how you did it?

[@UrbanVanlife]

ohhh im not sold on this i hope you don't have any problems with it , it kind of looks like a not put together Chinese heater , I know you paid a good price for it so it must be a decent one , but I'm so glad we got the tumor it was 2 pipes and 2 cables and the gas pipe and was so easy to install , and man it gives you so much heat and hot water , I cant wait to see how this works out for you , can we have it fitted by Tuesday please

[@FreedomStrider]

By Tuesday???... nope 😅 We would love to have it fitted by then but... yeah. This system is not for everyone and we didn't branch out lightly, we have very good reasons for avoiding having a hot water tank. This is a giant puzzle, and luckily we like puzzles. We can't wait to see what we can do with it. We'll make it work one way or another. 😂

[@codyschwoch5451]

Another thing I would like to say is the only reason why I like the Webasto stoves more than the Chinese diesel heat stoves is because of the Webasto stoves have been around for longer and they’re made by German ingenuity instead of Chinese ingenuity, but also the Bastos heaters have better English instructions than the Chinese diesel heater instructions Those have Horrible Chinese to English translations

[@FreedomStrider]

Yeah the Chinese heater manuals are terrible!! Even if I have to translate Germany to English, it's much more detailed and has everything written. We wanted to play it safe with a branded heater👍

[@thatwasthedaythatwas]

Hi. Can I ask why you do not just run water through the system /furnace and do away with the heat exchanger?

[@FreedomStrider]

In theory you could but that water passes through the heater and rubber pipework, and wouldn't be drinkable without filters, and you'd need to constantly refill the system with new cold water if you wanted to use the water. Plus these heaters are designed to work with glycol, not water, so I believe the water would boil in the pipes. The glycol only reaches 80C but it takes alot more heat to keep it at 80C. Water is much easier to heat and would therefore boil.

[@alzathoth]

any thought on using the coolant from your engine to heat the system while the engine is running?

[@FreedomStrider]

Totally possible we just didn't want to tap into our engine coolant, but it's doable with these systems

[@miguelfama4520]

GRACIAS!!! Excelent video, the best explication!!!

[@thekingoftheworld9553]

Wait so you have to heat the water in order to heat the rest of the van??

[@FreedomStrider]

In our case, yes, that's how the hydronic system works. The glycol takes about 5 minutes to get up to 90C, and as it enters the air matrix, the elements heat up and the fans blow the heat out. We expect it to work slower than an airtronic or direct burner with a fan, but it should still do the job and for our hot water, it will be a lot quicker than a boiler. And if we get the underfloor heating working correctly, then that should help create an ambient atmosphere - that's the plan anyway 👍😊

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

Looks like a great idea something I had thought about myself, have you thought about having a large hi efficiency heat exchanger between your vans engine coolant system and your leisure heating glycol system? If the engine was running let’s say you were driving somewhere and you also was cycling the pump ( but the heater was off ) you could transfer some heat energy into the leisure heating system whilst driving. Or vice versa if you’re in a very cold environment, Scandinavian countries during winter you could use the leisure heating system as a pre-heater for your engine.

[@FreedomStrider]

That's actually these heaters original design intention we I believe we even have the pipe to do that. We'll probably look into it after the heating system is installed because we are not entirely sure how to connect it up but it is a good idea to make the system more fuel efficient 😊

[@MispronouncedAdventures]

@@FreedomStrider Aye modifying the original vans coolant system probably isn’t everyone’s cup of tea! Keeping the System isolated and have a heat exchanger between them opposed to linking them is probably a better solution. Hopefully I’ll just be putting a heat exchanger in line along a pipe in the vans engine cooling system

[@mhelander]

I'm thinking this same setup for my upcoming build... Another is to use Truma Combi 6kW which has 10 liter boiler and four output air heating, no way to heat floor or engine tho. You may add another heat exchanger, simpler than your water heater, and series glycol pump in parallel of van heater core. When that pump isn't running no engine heating. You may also consider some special thermostat setup to get adequate cooling for primary glycol circuit running engine heating pump, maybe with pwm for better control. Most likely biggest issue in mild weathers, like near freezing or strong winds, is that diesel heater idle might be too much or it starts to develop soot... Or your floor gets to hot. Adding engine heating exchanger just before floor could get best of all setups. Build your setup and plumbing to make this possible and your golden. With glycol I would put both furnace and its pump under floor and use insulated plumbings, and add engine exchanger stuff there too. Best of luck, your campervan will be stellar!

[@mhelander]

How about using ESP32 based board, for example QuinLED Quad quinled.info/2018/09/07/quinled-quad/ or Deca to control pumps using Home Automation software, like this: opensource.com/article/18/8/build-thermostat-open-source-tools That's what I've been tinkering here to build myself custom heating and very likely recirculating shower like @Mispronounced Adventures

[@maurizioteobaldelli4845]

Very interesting video, thank you. I'm thinking to install something similar in my motorhome. I have some question for you. Did you check or control (e.g. through a thermostatic valve) that the temperature of the glycol is not above the maximum temperature of the fluid used commonly in underfloor heating systems (i.e., about 35° C ) ? Did you consider the pump characteristics to dimension the underfloor heating system (pipe diameter, spacing, and length)? What diameter of the pipe did you use? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[@FreedomStrider]

We haven't checked the glycol temperature though the heater specs say it heats glycol to around 60-80C so that's what I assume it is, and it doesn't make the floor 'too hot'. We bought 12mm pex pipe (ID 9mm) and just made sure to run it with common sense to try cover most of the floor area which worked out well :)

[@CameronHill23]

So when you set the Webasto controller on Auto, and set the heat (the right dial for the temp control) does that ONLY control the air matrix? Does it turn on the Espar furnace to heat the glycol? I have the same system and I just cannot get everything to play nicely. I thought that by setting the temp on the Webasto I could then go to sleep and the controller would turn the air on and the furnace to heat the glycol for the air matrix. Am I wrong? DO you have to turn the air on and then the furnace via the Easy Start pro?

[@FreedomStrider]

You can connect a different temperature sensor to the back of the easy start pro controller which can control when the furnace will turn on, but we don't have that. The webasto controller on auto only controlls when the air matrix will turn on. You can set the easy start pro controller to set the furnace to turn on at specific times and then connect the webasto controller to the wiring loom from the furnace (I believe it is the black and red wire though don't quote me on that) It is a bit of a fickly system since the webasto controller, air matrix and furnace are all independent from one another and you have to play around with them to work with easy other in sync. We rang the people we bought our system from and asked them based on what we wanted to do - that might be the best course of action in your case 👍

[@sukrugokyar2200]

Hello! Great video! Thx for it. I want to ask you about the Glycol? Which type of glycol you are using in the system propylene glycol or ethylene glycol? What is the concentration ?

[@FreedomStrider]

We used ethylene glycol at a 50/50 mix (we show it in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2OpqnWOfaqGaLM around 12 minutes in) Here's a link to the stuff we used: amzn.to/3bsOd8u

[@scottweikert5189]

I expect you're already aware, but right at the 10:00 mark - you point at the heat exchanger and describe the flow of both glycol and water as going in the same direction - they need to flow in opposite directions from one another. Looking forward to seeing your whole hydronic system install! I've got similar plans for a future project.

[@FreedomStrider]

Yes, we did know that 😉 - it's always good to double check.

[@scottweikert5189]

It takes a village! :D

[@aurora_gypsy1524]

very nice solution, thank you for sharing all these information! :) I kindly ask you a question: I expect the pressure inside the glycol circuit to rise with the temperature, did you experience any problem with the plastic glycol tank? I mean: does it withstand the pressure in running condition? Thanks in advance!

[@FreedomStrider]

We actually ended up replacing the plastic header tank with an aluminium one because the plastic one didn't fit in our space. The plastic one is designed for these systems and many people have used them with no trouble. As long as the tank you pick has a venting cap to allow for the pressure change and the airing of the system then you should be fine 😊👍

[@gadois8674]

Suggest you put in a controllable manifold so you can by pass and don't heat the floor in summer everytime you need hot water....

[@FreedomStrider]

Yes, we are planning on it 🙂

[@Mr_X-Pro]

You should put the fuel filter BEFORE the fuel pump in the line, to prevent sediments in the fuel from clogging the pump.

[@FreedomStrider]

Yes that's how we have put it - wasn't too sure how clear it was under the van but we have out fuel line from the fuel tank running through our filter, then the pump, then to the heater unit 👍

[@john-hutchinson]

Thanks for the video. I like the floor heating idea and also how you are designing your van as you build it. We can all sit at the drawing board too long. I noticed a few things wrong with your setup. First and probably most important, you have the heater the wrong way up. You need the output at the top so that any air bubbles can escape. Second your plate heat exchanger is the wrong way around (for maximum heat transfer). At the moment the flows are going in the same direction. This has at most 50% efficiency because the temperatures equalise. If you have counter flow the theoretical limit is 100%. You can expect between 60 and 80%. Your exhaust might be the wrong way up too. Make sure the little drain hole is at the bottom. I'm sure you would have figured all that out anyway but hopefully this will save you some time.

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks for all that - obviously the setup in this video is a rough schematic, more of a 2D visual representation rather than a 3D so it's hard to show direction, so we agree with all your directional points, that's how they should actually be when all setup. We are now physically installing the heater and by the end of this week you'll be able to see how we've position some of the things below the van - we will welcome your feedback then as well. 😊

[@codyschwoch5451]

And if you all ever want to make your muffler quieter on the Webasto heaters or the cheap Chinese diesel heaters all you gotta use is a different muffler because that is what he said it is it’s just a silencer so if you’ve got a dirt bike or a riding lawnmower that has an exhaust on it take that off and put it on that and it’ll be 10 times quieter Just like people say whether it’s the stoves or the or the Chinese stoves people say that the pump for the fuel is louder I never had a problem with it. My diesel heaters came with this noise canceling wrap that goes around the diesel pump.

[@FreedomStrider]

Yeah I've seen those muffler wraps, ours isn't too noisy but you're right about just putting this on if it is noisy!

[@alexanderstefanxandraswedi5835]

❤🎉😊

[@FreedomStrider]

Glad it was helpful :)

[@ibrahimpashaei2322]

What is the hose you reference that you say looks like it goes around the engine ? We can’t figure out when or what we use it for ?

[@FreedomStrider]

Honestly, we haven't used this pipe. I think it is supplied so you can easily run a continuous pipe from the heater around the engine to pre-heat the engine before turning it on. These heaters are actually engine pre-heaters, so that's their intended use. People in campervans and boats have just modified it to be used as a house/domestic heater instead. We haven't used it since we need to heat more than one thing, and there hasn't been a suitable function for this rubber hose (yet). We just bought the extra rubber hose separately and put it together as needed. We have left this one untouched in case we do have somewhere it would be useful but I wouldn't stress about it if you can find a suitable place for it at the moment (or ever). 👍

[@codyschwoch5451]

Me personally, I like the Webasto stoves that heat up the air and the water but that’s my preference in my extended Astrovan

[@FreedomStrider]

Not seen these before, they aren't that common for vans

[@c.i.m.1600]

Hello, Many thanks for sharing this. Excellent description. Unfortunately (possibly) I have already purchased a refurbished Webasto water heater, fully complete with controls, etc. I was wondering if the Air Matrix can be purchased separately? I'm looking forward to more videos. I've seen only one Air Matrix on eBay, though it doesn't have the controller for the air matrix. Liked and subscribed 👍

[@FreedomStrider]

Hi hi, yes it is possible :) www.melloronline.co.uk/Water_Heater_Matrices/5192/Silencio_2_heater_12v_5.5kw_-_41T0034.html This is the company we used to buy most of our kit, and this was our air matrix 👍 Hope this helps 😊

[@c.i.m.1600]

@@FreedomStrider Many thanks for the quick reply and link. It definitely helps :) I'm happy to have stumbled upon your channel. Cheers!

[@theoteam4641]

Wow that’s very good. Can’t wait for the install. I really wish I put an underfloor heating in our van, even with the diesel heater running, the vinyl floor is still cold. I think I’ll but buy a nice rug and put it on the floor, or maybe if there is away to heat the vinyl floor without taking it out then I’ll do that also lol

[@FreedomStrider]

A thick rug will make a big difference since the rug fibres trap air so if the air is warm, it shouldn't be as cold. I don't know if they exist, but a heated rug could be an idea? 😂🤔 Although of course, that will drain some power, but nonetheless... 😉

[@ychefla]

I know it's been a long time since your post. I am considering hydronic heating for my van. Initially I had not considered heated floors, but now I'm wondering how effective is the radiator fan system.. is it enough. I've understood that it is not as efficient as the diesel air heaters, but it would be lovely to remove the noisy diesel burner from the van. Then a comment regarding the coolant tank. Was the schematic simplified or are you circulating the coolant in the tank? I thought the tank would be a reservoir and have T-connection to the circulating system. This way coolant is drawn to the system if needed but not all of the coolant is heated. I may be totally mistaken!

[@FreedomStrider]

The heated floor we built, whilst a prototype of sorts, is not enough to heat the van by itself, however it certainly makes the van feel more like a home. Not having a freezing cold floor certainly makes a world of difference! I'm sure our system can be vastly improved, and I know from others (vanlife tech in the usa) that with the right kit it can be used as a heating source by itself. The main thing is with air heaters, they heat up the space more immediately, but once the heater is off, it can get cold quickly. The floor radiates heat, so even with the heater off, it can be heating the space still for hours!

[@FreedomStrider]

As for the coolant tank yes, we simplified a little bit you are correct, the tank is a reservoir and a place where air can escape and any expansion is managed as the coolant heats up 👌 the later install videos show the design a bit more clearly as we did change the design

[@Entering.happiness]

Hi guys, I have the same system and I’m having experience with short term hot water. For example, I turn my heater on and let it heat up everything for about 10 to 15 minutes and then I turn my shower on to warm water. It will only stay warm for about two minutes until the heat exchanger goes cold. The heater will still be running continuing to try and heat the exchanger but still I have no hot water since the exchanger ran cold. Do you guys experience the same thing? Is this normal? Or are you guys experiencing long-term hot water in your shower and sink?

[@FreedomStrider]

Sounds rather an odd problem - we haven't had this issue. If we run the shower on pure hot water on full power, after a few minutes the water goes warm as the heat exchanger struggles to warm the water up and we physically hear the heater kick into higher gear to try heat the glycol up quicker. This is with us running the hot air and the underfloor as well however if we shut the underfloor valves and turn the air matrix off, our heater can keep up with our shower head for hot water use. What flow rate is your shower head? Ours is around 4-5L/min, and our pump is 7L/min. If yours is much higher then it could be you're passing water through the heat exchanger too quick for it to heat up properly. As for the heat exchanger, ours is a 20-plate heat exchanger (so it has 20 layers inside for the water to pass through, lots of space for it to heat up). Some cheaper exchangers are 10 plate or 7 plate, meaning the water doesn't have as long in the heat exchanger to heat up, resulting in cooler water out the hot end. The other thing to check is the thermostatic valve on the end of the heat exchanger. Try turning it all the way to HOT - sometimes mixing with cold can result in much cooler temperatures, depending on the flow rate, etc... as mentioned above. For us, hot water is nearly instant. Once the heater is on, within 2 minutes we get hot water. And it stays hot for as long as the heater is on. Hope this helps!

[@Entering.happiness]

@@FreedomStrider awesome help thank you! I will check it out and see what I can do. Glad to hear it is odd though. Hopefully, once I get it working right, we will be living luxuriously✌🏻

[@summerfoot4844]

Hello, Great Video! Any iupdate on the install and wiring??

[@FreedomStrider]

At the moment we haven't actually installed any of the systems in the van yet, we are waiting on a few more parts. We've just finished the electrics which will enable us to connect the heater and controllers, and yesterday our underfloor heating pipe just arrived! (very exciting) so we are preparing the floor and confirming locations before we cut up the pipe, so videos will be coming soon! - But we do need to take our time as we don't want to mess up 🙂

[@chris3025]

If you need help with the German, let me know... i am German ;)

[@FreedomStrider]

Danke 😊👍

[@albenotron]

Do you need to heat your floor in summer when you need hot water?

[@FreedomStrider]

No we don't, and we have changed our design from this (kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4aonYmuf8uqebM) In short, instead of a 1 pipe system, we are now doing a 2 pipe system so we can turn on/off certain loops. Aka, isolate the underfloor loop and turn it off when we just want hot water and not a hot floor 😊👍

[@tipatses]

Do you know if it is possible to use the one that comes with the Sprinter (or Crafter) designed to heat the motor and converting it into this ? ( I know this is a D5 as well but maybe not the same model).

[@FreedomStrider]

If you mean the pre-heaters that sometimes come with vans to preheat the engine, then it's actually nearly exactly the same unit. The only thing you would need to check is that the pre-heater doesn't have a timer limit on it. When we were looking, some of the pre-heater furnaces only run for 50 minutes at a time, before turning off, and I don't know how soon you can turn them on again. You might be able to tap into that preheater existing system as well, to have the glycol heat run through a boiler which will give you a hat water supply after you've been driving, but it depends how often and far you drive if that is worth it or not. 😀

[@tipatses]

Right, I did not think about the running time, that's an issue.. Thanks for your anwser! I'm looking forward the progress of your build! I'm hinking about bying the same kit and doing the same in my next van! Looking for the liability as well, as the temperature can come under minus 20-25 degree Celsius in winter time here in Québec, Canada! Good insulation is needed tho!

[@NitrussRacing]

Very helpful, you've given me a few hours of my life back working out flows etc. Great stuff!

[@FreedomStrider]

Great to hear! 🙂

[@andrewbrowning9329]

Good luck both 👍

[@FreedomStrider]

Cheers! 😊

[@steveallen8987]

An idea I am working on regarding water. Very large water tank underneath body. One feed via pump is to a 3stage water filter into a 10 gallon tank for potable water, sink drinking etc. Another pump feed via a simple filter into your shower system,l the idea is that you fill the large tank from any reasonably clean source, tap, river , etc... then you pump into potable tank to keep it at a reasonable level. And into shower whenever the recycled water needs replacing. Pros. Large storage capacity. Very clean water via 3 stage reverse osmosis filter that is not wasted filtering all you water only that needed. Simple filter for shower. A single pump with a two way valve to switch target. Level switch in each sub tank to automatically switch off pump when filled. The potable water tank feeds a tap via a small pump operated from A knee height switch. A small grey water tank with solenoid empty valve so you can dump into drain you park over or on the road. The main tank has a couple of fill points, one of them is under the bonnet so you can fill up whilst pretending to fill radiator at a garage. Steve

[@FreedomStrider]

Sounds like a good idea, certainly doable. You might need to upgrade the weight capacity of the van, depending on how big the "very large water tank" is 😂 Your idea is quite interesting because, after a lot of thinking, we have come to the same conclusion that it is best to have separate water tanks for different functions (drinking, sink, shower usage). For hygiene sake, it is best to treat them as separate systems.

[@steveallen8987]

@@FreedomStrider yes I am planning on getting a Vw crafter cr50 minibus all glazed extralong. (5ton) which has the advantage of doubled rear wheels for good off road, higher suspension to cope with 17 people weight. Interior fully insulated and carpeted, built in heater and electrically controlled extending rear sun deck. (Disabled wheelchair lift, will probably remove as it is pretty heavy and behind the rear axle so cuts down ground clearance angle.) raised floor by about 4 inches for the fitted seat racking, will either remove or if headroom is ok build underfloor storage for things like clothes, tinned food etc...) the floor tracking could make fitting units way easier. Fitted escape hatch sized removable roof hatch. Usually come with graphics on the side. Must watch the video I linked in other post. Steve

[@FreedomStrider]

That sounds awesome - we would love to see it 😃👍

[@steveallen8987]

@@FreedomStrider this guy has the best shower setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHyxnp-lq8merJo

[@frankstocker5475]

The fuel pump will keep you awake at night.

[@FreedomStrider]

Thankfully, it hasn't, the fuel pump is not nearly as loud as the fan matrix itself. I know that some people have trouble with the humming, but it seems that we are not light sleepers ☺️

[@johnathanball3344]

Guys, you need temperature on your underfloor heating otherwise you will cook your little toes and your van. This means that you need another control valve which bypasses the underfloor heating and controls the temperature this is a three way valve and can be purchased from your local plumb store. Love your pipe schematic just each of the systems need to be separately controlled

[@johnathanball3344]

You need temperature control even. Lol

[@FreedomStrider]

We agree, our installation diagram is a bit more complex than the demonstration we showed here in the video. We're looking at TRV's and other valves 👍😀

[@robertlee3734]

good lucks a great bit of kit

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks, it sure does 😀

[@barry-cq4xg]

Like the way you laid out the system on the floor - it made the explanation very straightforward. I cannot imagine the complexity of the electrics. Wishing you all the very best during the installation. It will be very interesting to many van builders, and I know you will make it work. All the best.

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks, we are slowly making sense of it all - it wil all work at the end 😉

[@undertheradarvan]

@@FreedomStrider did you ever get it working? I have been agonizing over my rixen hydronic system for many months and cannot get it to work. I am at my wits end.

[@thefirst555]

In summer. To to heat the water you also have to heat the van?

[@FreedomStrider]

At the moment, as we have demonstrated it, we haven't out any valves for the underfloor heating loop so yes the floor will get warm at any time just like a hot water pipe in a house. That is a temporary situation because we plan to put a valve and controller later on as we learn to work with the system 😊

[@mhelander]

​@@FreedomStrider you could also have valves to shut floor heating loop during summer use, and if/when equipped with engine heating exchanger just push excess heat there... And engine heat exchanger works other way around too if you can make furnace glycol pump to run without running furnace, this gives hot water for some time after driving. My camper trailer is equipped with Alde LPG combi furnace and floor heating circuit which is last in plumbing having radiators for each window and front/rear of the camper. This floor circuit has shut-off valves which I haven't ever used, furnace has 8 liters in boiler and doesn't need to run heating circulation to warm water.

[@H2Dwoat]

Hi, nicely explained 👍, just one question if I may. Is it possible to just heat the water without heating the van? I assume it must be possible but couldn’t see it from the layout.

[@FreedomStrider]

We didn't explain it in this video but later on (kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4aonYmuf8uqebM) We changed our design slightly to plow for us to heat the water without running the underfloor line. Since we can also leave the heat matrix fans off, even though there is glycol passing through it, if the fans are off there won't be any heat 😊

[@sethgold6950]

The "Verbindungsteil" got me !!! 😂😂😂😂 a big hello from Germany 🇩🇪

[@FreedomStrider]

😂

[@anthonyarnold1242]

how did this work out?

[@FreedomStrider]

The hydronic heating system works great. We plumbed it in parallel (at the end) not in series and it is still working as I type. 🙂

[@anewhouse108]

Nice design! I’ve been planning out my system as well. Have you considered upgrading the header tank to an aluminum one?

[@FreedomStrider]

No? What are the benefits of upgrading to an aluminium header tank?

[@anewhouse108]

@@FreedomStrider Primarily it can handle extended run time better - Like you mentioned, the plastic tanks aren’t designed for it. Personally I also feel it’s easier to insulate and mount in the van. And a lot more durable. But, they do cost more and are difficult to find with proper fittings (I’m in the US so that could a factor) I’ve been looking at fuel tank manufacturers for my system.

[@anewhouse108]

@@FreedomStrider Also could you expand on why you decided to not use a hot water tank? I’m curious about your thoughts on that.

[@FreedomStrider]

We debated for a long time about a hot water tank. But because we are planning for a recirculating shower system, we wanted a way to keep the recirculating water supply and the rest of the van separate. We could have picked a water boiler and dedicated it completely to the recirculating shower and now use it for anything else in the van, however, apart from that being a waste, also it would be very difficult to clean a boiler. Also, the recirculating shower system requires maintenance and cleaning (hair, dirt etc...) and this would all eventually get stuck in the boiler. That was the main point against getting a boiler. With the hydronic system and the heat exchangers, we can separate all the water systems, build them independently, and upgrade/change things without disturbing the whole system. 😀

[@FreedomStrider]

For the tank, it's an interesting idea to think about as an upgrade, but I think for now we are going to try and make it work with the tank we have, as that will take some more digging around and we really want to get the system to work first - but it's good to know, thanks for telling us that! 😄

[@DuckyVans]

You have the in/out from the heater backward

[@FreedomStrider]

I can't be sure, we starred at the diagram for a while and this is the way it told us. But we'll look at it about 10 billion other times before we connect it up. 😂

[@simonmiddleton4977]

Red diesel can only be used for agriculture, horticulture or forestry uses, Using red diesel could lead to a fine and prosecution if you are caught with it.

[@FreedomStrider]

The government website says you can still use it for heating purposes; new limitations are coming in 2022 though. "2.3 Uses of red diesel other than in motor vehicles heating - red diesel used for heating is known as ‘35 second oil’. Use of red diesel for heating has declined with the availability of natural gas but it is still used ‘off-grid’ for the heating of commercial and public sector premises, and in agriculture for heating animal sheds and processes such as drying grain, as well as some household heating. Use of red diesel for industrial heat in kilns and furnaces has similarly declined" Source: www.gov.uk/government/consultations/red-diesel-call-for-evidence/red-diesel-call-for-evidence

[@simonmiddleton4977]

@@FreedomStrider Living off grid in a campervan does not qualify. It’s your choice but if you get caught you could get prosecuted (criminal record) and fined. Not worth the risk. Ask yourselves this, If it was ok to do everyone would be doing it?

[@_Radu.G]

Foarte frumos!

[@keirburgess]

Great video, thanks

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks, glad it helped. 🙂

[@stevekestin4345]

Very clear and helpful.

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks 😊

[@andrewgilbride7546]

Why? I can see the point in a large motor home but not in a camper.

[@thekingoftheworld9553]

Their van is rather large😂

[@FreedomStrider]

We do have a LWB camper, and we're going to have a lot of open floor space, the brown floor space you see in the video is pretty much what's going to remain as floor surface area. And also, this system allows for a lot of flexibility and upgrades when it comes to the hot water side without getting another tank. 👍

[@bigmolar271]

You guys are awesome!

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks 😊

[@konorrockhill6191]

Do you have 2 separate water heaters for recycling shower and hot sink water?

[@FreedomStrider]

No, we don't have 2 separate heaters for the sink and shower - there is no need. The heater heats glycol not water, you can pass this glycol through different heat exchangers ie. One for the shower and one for the sink. That being said we haven't bothered to plumb the hot side of our sink (for the moment)

[@konorrockhill6191]

@@FreedomStrider interesting but you have yours hooked up to your shower right? Couldn't you just T it off to the sink? With the double loop system or whatever? Or you have to have it connect to another heat exchanger?

[@FreedomStrider]

If the shower is recirculating, then the water in the loop will not be clean enough to drink or wash stuff up in the sink so 2 tanks, 2 heat exchangers and 2 separate plumbing loops are best. If it's a normal shower then a single linear line with 1 heat exchanger is fine

[@konorrockhill6191]

@@FreedomStrider ahh I see. I was thinking you might be able to do it with just 2 loops and 2 tanks and 1 heat exhanger but maybe not. Do you recommend a different exchanger rather than spending $6k on 2 of them?

[@FreedomStrider]

Why would you spend 6k on heat exchangers? A heat exchanger is about £100-£200. You still have 1 heating plumbing loop and the doubling happens at the water plumbing side. So.. 1 heater 1 glycol plumbing line --> with 2 water heat exchangers The glycol passes through both. Then on the water side of the heat exchanger: 1 heat exchanger is connected to the sink plumbing (with its own water tank and such) 2nd heat exchanger is connected to the recirculation shower loop. That way the water does not mix.

[@jacklorchdesigns]

I recommend anyone looking to do a hydronic system like this, do not put multiple heating sources in series as shown, you want to pipe in parallel. That way you have a consistent high temp inlet for each demand, and you have less pressure drop in the system

[@FreedomStrider]

We agree, we did a follow up video discussing the 2 types of piping and the actual plumbing in our van is as you described 🙂

[@jacklorchdesigns]

@@FreedomStrider great 👍🏻. After using this for awhile, do you think the 5kW heater is enough? Seems like you would need to wait for the water tank to heat up to room temperature before you can get shower water up to 100F

[@FreedomStrider]

The 5kw heater is plenty for the air matrix, within 5 minutes we get hot air and our underfloor loop is toasty in 30 mins. As for the water, we are actually plumbing that in the next few weeks, so we'll have a video testing the water temperature and time for it to heat up. That being said once the heater is up to temperature (within 5 minutes) we expect that the heat transfer at the heat exchanger should be fairly instant and it may need cooling down and anything else.

[@FreedomStrider]

Oh and we don't have a hot water tank, we'll just use the heat exchanger as an instant hot water unit 🙂👍

[@jacklorchdesigns6327]

@@FreedomStrider looking forward to it! I am a systems design engineer, and doing a quick calc, your fresh water tank supply will need to be around 70F before the diesel heater will get it up to a comfortable shower temp, and that's at only 1 gpm. Assuming the unit is really maxed out at 5kW. I'm about to purchase a similar heater for my own build so looking forward to see how it works for you, delays to preheat the fresh water tank in cold temps, etc. Thanks!

[@woolengrappler]

Thanks for making the video. This is easily the best explanation of a hydronic system that I’ve seen. Btw, where does the water pump sit in this system? For cold water is it water tank> pump> sink and for hot water it goes water tank> pump>heat exchanger>sink? I assume the hot and cold mix at the sink

[@FreedomStrider]

Thanks, glad we made it easy to visualise! 😊 As for the water pump, yep I think that's pretty much spot-on; the pump needs to be closest to the tank, and the mixing nearest the sink after the heat exchanger. You can have 1 pump and after the pump, split the pipe in 2, have 1 going to the heat exchanger (hot water) and the other to the sink (cold water) so you'd only need 1 pump, and then the mixer brings it back together. 👍

[@bbbancheva9499]

How much did the whole system cost?

[@FreedomStrider]

The cost is about £1600 - half of that is the physical furnace and the rest is optional, depending on what you need. 🙂👍

[@bbbancheva9499]

@@FreedomStrider no i mean with the whole system that you're trying to make with the water and heating that includes the recruit shower and the water and air heating?

[@FreedomStrider]

Not sure yet, £1600 is the heating element of it, the underfloor is another £100, then any of the recirculating shower parts and the plumbing, we are expecting maybe around £500, but we don't know yet, because we are designing as we go.

[@bbbancheva9499]

@@FreedomStrider Did you figure it out how you gonna cook? And as much as i understood you want 2 big beds for when you have kids but can you fit another legalized sits for travel for lets say if you have 2 kids because now you are 2+1 sits ?

[@FreedomStrider]

We are planning to be our normal 'gourmet' chefs and cook anything we fancy. 😂 We don't have a proper looking oven at the moment, we are hoping to upgrade to electric cooking eventually. But for now, we have a Remoska oven and we would like to try the Omnia top oven with the camping stoves. Yes, the van is designed so it can house a 3rd person, so 1 kid is a go 😉. As for more than 3 passengers, we are hoping to customise the couch to have seatbelts, but we'll figure out the details later. Plus, who knows, we might do more van conversions before that many kids.😂

[@leow_se]

Hey guys! I am looking forward to see you install the hydronic flooring heating soon! I am starting my build soon and really wanted a floor loop (plans for arctic circle yay). As far as I can tell, you're the only van on KZbin in the UK with a flooring heating loop being put in! How exciting! Anyway, any timeline of when you might put in the loop and the heater? Thanks!

[@FreedomStrider]

Hey, so great to have you so excited, so are we - we have most of the things we need to start the installation. We have been doing some floor prep and we are hoping that in Feb we'll have an update video and the floor loop in the floor (though not sure if we can expect it to be operational yet). A lot of things to figure out, but don't worry, we are definitely doing it. 😃

[@leow_se]

@@FreedomStrider Very glad to hear!