How I do a Pan Liner --- OLD SCHOOL Tile Shower Build 2024 Episode 1

Shower Pan liner installation for tile installation tutorial.
If you need help on your project, go to tilecoach.com and sign up for a 1 on 1 tile coaching session with me. www.tilecoach.com/book-online

[@C2IT678]

This to me is the best tested and true way of doing them

[@miguelescorza6785]

Oh man, this brings back memories. This is the method I learned 10 years ago back in the union we’ve come along way

[@videsos4040]

Old school but is still probably the best way to do it. I have seen some showers leaking when they use other methods

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Then they were done wrong

[@RafaelTileWorks]

One of the main reasons I stopped doing pan liner was because of the extra day for the pre-slope. I have no clue why I never heard of, or used a ultra fast set mortar. I might do away with Schluter / other methods and go back to float and liner. I am also in the NorthCal by the way, hello neighbor. With how out of plane and bad old / mid town Sac houses are, the float is looking really appealing again. The fast set mortar is a great tip to save time. Love these videos. Your channel inspired me to make my own as a goof / hobby and I can see why you have so much content. It is fun to share your work. Your content is on another level though. And your trade work is also spectacular, dam near perfect every time!

[@RawTakes]

Cmon Zakk! 😂 Killin the ol coach lol.

[@keghamstepanian]

Cant wait to see the next steps.

[@FIREGURU]

*Tip- Measure and pre-fold your membrane. It makes it much easier to handle it.

[@craigroberts3982]

preslope is everything when it comes to making a mud base work. I like the shower drain flush with the subfloor and I use a 2x4 on edge for the curb to obtain a narrower curb. Taller than stacking 2x4s flat and so much narrower. Installing the pan liner used to be a plumber's job. It is a plumbing fixture after all. I'd like to know when it became the tile setter's problem. The old timers I worked around always used copper nails to secure them. Now we are the ones doing the water test and making sure it does not leak.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Why not put some lathe down, pour pan and then Kerdy cloth over when dry. Then use the inside outside corner and Kerby tape. Never had a leak

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Noone wants cement board where I reside. Unless Verdi cloth over cement board and pan. Then the county has to pass your 24 hour water test

[@stucorbett7905]

We used to call Dave Sewell at Sierra Shower Pan. Hot mop with pre slope and water test. Best money spent. Then daypack deck mud.

[@mjonesftwtx]

What’s funny is the first mix seemed to be harder to move but easier to form without going over it time and time again because it was mixed to watery lol. 😂 anyway good stuff learned some more thanks

[@rodrigorodriguez7410]

I Always do hot mop and never had an issue. I think its the best way to go.

[@MrWetstone]

Nice job

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Even StarrTile watches. Good to have all the input in one place. 👍 😊 Both are successful. 😊😊😊😊

[@NoHOARDERchicks]

The pan liner is the only method i see never have an issue if installed correctly. Youve demo'd countless showers made with other material, but what about the Oatey perfect slope? Is there anything wrong with using it? Although its expensive, it saves soo much time. You also dont save much in mud bed cost either.

[@saeedmuhammad8053]

Damn good job bro.

[@wally1957]

I had a plastic shower pan crack in my RV this last week. The prices for pan replacements was outrageous so I decided to repair mine. I squirt spray foam through a big hole that I made to stabilize the base so that it won't ever crack again. I Filled hole with Fiberall and then I Fiber-glassed the entire pan and then Epoxied not only the pan but the entire shower, walls and all. I added multiple color pigments to the epoxy. It looks like a water fall with multiple colors streaming down the walls. It looks cool. I then epoxied the bathroom sink and counter with mix of pigments, carbon and sapphire blue. I got carried away but it is fun at age 66.

[@GGstorytimes]

There is a actual official video from Otaley about how to install PVC linear, I think it’s very helpful and step by step.

[@imnotwatching1]

Being a plumber using a heat gun or leaving the liner in the florida sun for a few makes it alot more flexible for tighter folds and easier to apply.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Old school way. How I learned 25 years ago, but haves not used a bladder in several years

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

The problem with Schlumberger pans is when sub floor isn't level, especially the perimeter. Pouring/ dry packing deck mud gives you the field to make your slope and perimeter good. Simple

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

That's when we pour a pan, and kerdi cloth over it.

[@mattmason7554]

Yes yes yes. No issues down the road

[@racif]

Glad you came back to old school for a day. To be honest I was losing interest in your new installs. I don't trust any of the new "systems". Failures are everywhere, while a well-done old-school install will last a century. I had a 100-year-old house with an old mortar bed and it never failed. A remodel revealed it was in perfect like-new shape. I regretted even touching it.

[@TileCoach]

Thanks. It definitely felt good to do it. Stay tuned for the next videos coming up. Floating the pan, flaoting the walls, setting the tile, and grouting. I got hours of content coming up from this shower.

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Stapling is a good tip. More fixings go in when the wall board is installed.

[@r3jk8]

Just a regular homeowner here. No interest at all in doing any of this work but I find it interesting to watch.

[@Apexjasonmorganllc]

Yes this is the method I love! Great video Isaac!

[@ronland1821]

Yes other than the wood curb needs to go.

[@Apexjasonmorganllc]

@@ronland1821 i don’t personally ever use wood in my curbs. I always do Mud curbs. Tile coach is an awesome installer so I would trust his install though.

[@ronland1821]

@@Apexjasonmorganllc Right I’ve never used wood in 25 years.

[@jessematheny3636]

where are you from? so cal wood and hotmop is all I see and do myself@@ronland1821

[@ronland1821]

@@jessematheny3636 Utah

[@Kmher90]

Nice seeing you going back to mud again, which do you prefer mud or prefab foam?

[@user-pwfus]

I still say this is the best and easiest way to build a shower and never leaks if done correct.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

If I pour a pan with deck mud i kirdi cloth over it and tape it. Never had a leak

[@user-pwfus]

@@Davidlovesmusic311 How many years has it been there? Old school liner lasts 15 to 20 years easily.

[@theige01]

Thanks for the lesson ! If for the wall, you're using a backer board (foam, hardi,...), not floated mortar, I assume you overlap the wall board down over the membrane? and I assume you shim out the studs to the thickness of the folded membrane corners before installing the wallboard?

[@marcusdollard7330]

Retired now most of my work was done in New York City lead pan only did a couple years in the bay area never used wood for a curb. Thought this was old-school you guys didn’t do this anymore all these new fangled systems. I assume you like the labor but you’ve reached the point where you need to just expedite chip in buddy.

[@stevefrey2990]

Excellent explanation, thanks so much. Any worry about the pre slope cracking at the drain because it's only 1/4 inch thick?

[@TileCoach]

Not at all. It has a 2” bed of mortar above it.

[@1971VoiceoftheMummy]

nice!

[@Gymjb5]

Can you do mud bed for the first layer like the one you use on the second video or you need to use mortar mix ? And thanks 🙏

[@kirtheggen1742]

I got to thinking you tile coach and tile star are both really good. I got an idea from watching both of you but I know tile coach likes to experiment. He is my idea how about a mortar base pre slope a liner and then a slop with modified acrylic liquid added to the 4:1 mix and then seal every thing with hydro ban and chalk the drain. The ultimate 1000 year shower. Tile coach you are great I have learned so much. How much space when tiling to corners on shower on12/24 1/8 1/4 1/16 horizontal.

[@gizmobently]

Great video. One question I have. Is the shower subfloor 7” deeper than the bath floor? Would you be able to do this same process if the shower floor was not deeper?

[@dallas2094]

Old skool perfection

[@macjusss]

Why or when would you decide to go with this pan liner than the presloped schluter pan/ hot mop/etc?

[@reconone3574]

What other methods do y’all recommend instead of the pvc membrane for a first time DIY?

[@miker8687]

Question. I’m in the process of doing a shower and I installed my drain yesterday, I concreted 2” plumbing into the ground since this was a bathtub before it’s a shower now. I accidentally concreted the plumbing in, without it being level. It’s not off much but it is off some. If I put the second piece of the drain, rhe part that clips into my bolts, can I stick some abs plastic under one side that way I can unevenly tighten down the drain and in the process fix what is unlevel? By doing this I’d imagine it would work and would just make very large areas for water to get in near the weebles.

[@finishfloorsllc.228]

How are you gonna attach the remaining wall board at the bottom?🤔

[@tommywalker5348]

Float! no board 🤟

[@justinofboulder]

That's a good question! When I was pouring pans regularly, I would shim out all my walls to accommodate the thickness of the pan liner, then concrete board all the way down to a half an inch above the pan liner (not attaching any screws below the shower curb maximum height).

[@mikemcgrathsr734]

Where the wall tile and floor tile met using this method, do you need to grout and the caulk, or is grout sufficient?

[@reconone3574]

My shower is 7’ long. I am installing a linear drain in the front. Question is-would it be okay to have one continuous slope to the drain and not slope the floor away from the side walls? I will slope the floor away from the front wall to the drain but what do you guys think about not sloping the floor at the sidewalls, just one slope for the 7’ pan?

[@adamnorthville5636]

Thanks

[@jonport_]

Guilty on the curb Conner😐 ive learn since. Live and learn.

[@wolverinegnr]

Hi Issac! Do you still recommend the Flo fx drain as the number 1 option? Thanks

[@shawncockrell6007]

Excellent tutorial ...... I get the new methods are time/ skilled labor savers, but that is cheap and bullet proof.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Nice vid. Y the pan liner and not the foam pan??

[@ohokayofficial]

Are there occasions where you want the prefloat and pan liner installed before the Board is prepped on the wall? Awesome video by the way!!! Love X15, but not the smell 😭😂

[@derrickinscoe1554]

Can you use deck mud (4to1 or 5to1 ratio) for your preslope as well?

[@spikeklein2196]

Hey Tile Folk. Just wondering why hard water deposits don't clog up those weep holes? Even our toilet bowls stack up with that garbage (northern Cali). Thanks to Tile Coach. Love this channel.

[@xiaoweiwu9788]

How to tile the liner area at the bottom of wall? Should I fill with thinset? Or just leave it blank?

[@vby9588]

Some new construction GCs can be very cheap and stubborn old school. And this is a great example.

[@TR4Ajim]

Isaac, what circumstances would make you choose using a mud bed/wood curb/liner vs a premade pan like RediTile?

[@TileCoach]

The GC prepared the shower for this method.

[@jagsingh507]

Can I put black tar paper on top of plywood and the put mortar mix. Do I use mash wire on the mortar mix

[@C2IT678]

Hmmm no glue in the corners of that fold on the liner?

[@michaelrendon3137]

When would you find it necessary to waterproof the preslope with something such as redgard, before installing the rubber liner? I have noticed that some waterproof the preslope and some do not.

[@contemplate-Matt.G]

It's much better to water proof the mud once it's dry and use alkaline resistant mesh in the corners. Three thin coats of Red Gard on that mud and the vinyl will be a backup but will never see water

[@RaulCojocariu]

Great work like always, but the question why this antic method i did these 15 years ago?

[@ronland1821]

It’s still the best method to date period 👊

[@gaknskk]

How much water actually seeps through the tile,grout and pan to get to the rubber liner ?

[@tretatt]

What do you fill the 7” of the wall with at the bottom?

[@beanieweenie9543]

How does the method compare to other methods in cost?

[@chinaskibukowski7747]

Still the best shower pan method by a country mile. Not a fan of the wood curb though. Would probably float that out or use bricks instead.

[@diabolic-i4s]

why? so the potential leak stays hidden longer? everything else is made out of wood anyway

[@dantemariscal8679]

If you’ve seen his other videos he shows how to float the curb with mortar instead of screwing in nails into cement board through the liner. Dude knows his stuff and drops priceless information

[@davidwelsh829]

Bull, ive torn out dozens of curbs that had wood in them, some less than a year old. Never use wood in a wet area. Ftw i started doing tile in 1975.

[@Flynnasquez]

U and ur method is y I have work

[@user-mp7oq6mf4w]

Will you buy cement on top of this resin?

[@Bushwacked487]

Newbie question: why wouldnt you install the side boards afterwards so it could better overlap over the rubber membrane?

[@AQUARIUMFREAK123]

Would this OATEY pan liner and glue be AQUARIUM SAFE ? can i make an aquarium seal out of these materials seen here ?

[@mirena2]

Can you use flo fx with pan liner?

[@keska01]

what is the best pan liner to use ?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Flexible PVC sheet can strech 300% before tearing and so if any movement in the structure waterproofing membrane can remain sealed.

[@declanmanning4264]

Love all the videos but why so many different ways. The preformed foam bases seem so much easier??

[@justinofboulder]

Foam is definitely easier, and better in most cases. I poured mud pans for 25 years, and there are a few applications where they are still better than foam. One example being in a renovation of a concrete slab when doing a curbless shower. Removal of slab and then pouring shower base and flush to existing slab grade.

[@robertramirez7228]

On a previous video you said the pan liner should be at least 3 inches above the curb…?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Flexible 1mm PVC sheet ????? Is that the material in your liner ?? Australia does not have your system, but I can get the flexible PVC and with a heat gun turn the liner down the drain hole after tililng.

[@jt5747]

Could you use pvc glue on those hospital corners just to reinforce them?

[@Paul-rg4is]

Not pvc glue, it's specific pan liner glue. It's green, it's also necessary.

[@matthewsvolos3195]

Not sure what code you’re reading Isaac, but waterproofing must go 3 inches above curb height. Not 2 inches. Thanks for the video

[@TileCoach]

Maybe it’s the fasteners that can’t be below 2”. Thanks for the info.

[@HookedonHD]

No link to the materials used?

[@Cam-wi3tp]

Sorry but i'm confused, i thought the drypack went in the liner not under it, do you do another preslope on top, sandwiching the liner in between?

[@rowdynoe9595]

This is the pre-slope, which gives a slope to the pan liner itself so water does not pool at the bottom of the mud bed that is placed on top of the liner

[@Cam-wi3tp]

@@rowdynoe9595 Well i sure do appreciate your response and this video from tile coach! From videos i've watched, everyone seems to be throwing liner over the floor, putting in oaty liner then preslope inside the liner. I got away from youtube and did some reading and now i understand this system and learned about the mold issues. Thank you both so much

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

they call this pre slope pre sloped befor the liner orhot mop goes down you need to look at the drain closely or watch more videos and a light bulb will click on no offence but its very simple yet confuses most everyone in the begining

[@pocketsoundpictures]

Where is episode two? 🤓

[@Jerry0291er]

Do you answer any of the questions in your comments. I’m redoing my bathroom and these are good questions.

[@jt5747]

Would it be beneficial to add a bead of caulk around the underside edge of the drain before bolting it down?

[@stephenhornsby9078]

Nope will plug the weep holes

[@lw3764]

One thing that's really bugging me: all of these boards like hardibacker and concrete board, so many people think they're waterproof when over and over I've seen people say they're not and that you still have to waterproof them with some kind of membrane. Then why even use "waterproof" boards instead of drywall? It doesn't make sense to use drywall either, I know that, but to me it just seems like no matter what you put up you'll still have to slather it with red guard or flex seal or whatever. I have a tile tub surround that seems to be failing, the wall next to the tub is getting damp, and I'm probably going to replace with a basic btch fiberglass tub and surround because it just seems too expensive and complicated to get the tile right (our bathroom was newly remodeled before we moved in).

[@justinofboulder]

The number one failing point with this method is water getting underneath the 2x4s, swelling them and popping curb. I've seen it on more than ten showers that I have demoed throughout the years. I rarely custom pour pans these days, but if a job calls for mud I always pour my curbs (encapsulating the liner within).

[@ronland1821]

Bingo 👊

[@davidwelsh829]

Yep x10

[@alwayssearching1882]

II always waterproof my three 2x4s individually before I install curb. Even the substrate. Never an issue.

[@justinofboulder]

@@alwayssearching1882 Sounds like a lot of work, but also sounds like a method that works great for you! I'm almost exclusively using foam systems now, install is so much quicker and my body appreciates working with lighter weight components.

[@corystadman9089]

​@@alwayssearching1882that's what I do too

[@whiskeymonk4085]

And Then add mortar over the top? Talk to me coach. Whats the next step?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

7 inches gap, a good fact to know. 👍 😊😊😊😊

[@spencerd439]

I thought you were supposed to put an adhesive down on the bottom side of the pan liner. Is it not worth the time and effort to do so?

[@limamohanty1083]

Hi Isaac, I need your help. It’s very urgent. I live in Boston and I am doing my new bath on second floor. I had hired two guys to do pre slope. Each of them have screwed up the slope and both time I demolished the whole structure.

[@limamohanty1083]

I want to show you the picture of my pre slope where drain flange is really down than the slope. If I put the liner on top of it then it won’t be on the same level. Can you please suggest me. I really want to talk to you in person

3 inch galvanized Staples

[@brightpathvideo]

I thought old school was copper pan, lead pan or hot tar and 15lb felt?

[@ereckit1972]

Paper / Mud / Waterproof/ The right thinset and grout/ Good tile work = NO PRESLOP NEEDED 27 years of high end work and not one preslop.

[@Corrvision]

The Method, I was taught 30 years ago, it works.

[@robbob4872]

I'd have left the denshield at least 12" higher so it is more gradual where the corners are bumping out - especially at the curb...

[@pilotkumaran2520]

Is that your dad helping in the background ?

[@oscarlucero2755]

I just use regular mad and add some baking soda ready to go in 15 min

[@brocklee1996]

Bro just get a hot mopper to water proof that pan. I get that you're using the membrane but theres no debating that hot mopping is such a superior method and total peace of mind. My guy charges $275 to hot mop a 3x5 pan and curb here in Ventura county, ca. Im not bashing you here, just giving a suggestion to make your shower projects less stressful.

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

Ok Im old school too. pvc liner is new school or no school to me just kidding. but Since Ive never been around it I cant say for sure but... I think it is arguable Hot Mop is everything to us but outside of ca or at most west coast no one hot mops most back east places never have they built lead or copper pans . So I think there are belivers that a well built pvc pan will out last hot mop Im not so sure dont really care to some extent. Im a plumber you want copper pipes we run copper Pex you get Pex Cast iron tub you get cast iron. So my guess is if builder wants Pvc liner thats what it is

[@bryancromwell8099]

Pre slope is for the moisture inside the pan you pour so it weeps out of the pan. A pan that holds water will cause mold issues. Hence the pan drying out via the weep holes. I dont think any new guys understand this.

[@John-fr9up]

Oatey does have a youtube on the pan liner here kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqGoYnRspMyIhKs --- Looks like a pretty well thought out installation for the pan -- especially the double layer over the curb.

[@davidribeca1745]

Liner is not turned up the wall far enough! Liner should be 2 inches above the" Finished" curb(tcna) , not the rough framing! Top of the wooden curb just like the pre slop should be pitch inward ! Pre fold the liner outside the shower makes the installation much easier! That cast iron drain is old technology. Modern pvc drains have weep groves under the clamping ring to allow water to continue to flow under the clamping ring and not stop at the ring! You can also adjust the drain body up or down.

[@TileCoach]

Thanks for the info david

[@Spcampbell193]

Shower liners if done right will always be superior

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Compared to what?

[@Spcampbell193]

@@Davidlovesmusic311 thinset applied membranes, brush on water proofing, foam preslopes, any other shower base products

[@ronland1821]

Exactly 👍

[@familyguy5081]

Would have been real nice to watch cleanup on that drain before you put bolts in

[@johntuite1339]

Wheres sal at

[@FixthisCD]

Mixed stiff because you missed arm day at the gym

[@ndsrocks1]

Enough wood curbs. Form and float with drypack

[@Aaron86v]

It makes no difference at all, he's using a pan liner.

[@ndsrocks1]

@Aaron86v it does make a difference as any water making it to the wood(most likely from the outside) will expand the wood and compromise the curb Same amount of water on a drypack curb will have no effect.

[@ndsrocks1]

@BonBon770 I've yet to see a wood curb that didn't have intrusion points all along the outside perimeter. This is also assuming the wood used is properly dried and not the wet waiting to twist stuff in stores today. Forming a curb with wood and floating with drypack is cheaper quicker and better. No slicing liner, no patching, no fastener holes, easy custom sizing, easy sloped top = no brainer.

[@ndsrocks1]

@BonBon770 no, slicing of liner is not necessary in 90% of poured curbs

[@alwayssearching1882]

Waterproof the entire curb and substrate before constructing curb. Never a problem.@@ndsrocks1

[@joshtaton8986]

Not a tile guy here but a builder. We are always dealing with the corners that you fold and how the denshield or cement board comes down over it and flairs out causing the entire tile wall to flair and noticing it from the tile line where it meets the drywall. Not sure if this makes sense. But trying to figure out best approach to stop that. When you fold the corners it makes it thicker causing the flair. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. It’s a problem on ALL our jobs and every builder I talk to has the same problem. I see you don’t bring the denshield over the pan, how do you tile over the liner below the denshield with a seemless plane?

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

I dont get your question dosent holding the board up high eliminate the bulge on folds? Also I seen other videos of his where he will float over everything on the walls I never seen this method but a lot i havent seen in the tile trade its not my Gig. im guessing maybe its 3/8 thick . not the standard paper, wire , scratch and brown . I think a mesh and one coat ?

[@chuckyufarley2999]

When making your hospital corners, instead of folding it to the inside where it would overlap the rest of the liner, fold it to the outside and tuck it into the wall. Works best if you have studs right at the point where the liner is folded so that your hospital corner sits flat against the inside surface of the stud. To keep the corner from sagging, sandwich it in place with a length of 2x4 toenailed into the stud.

[@richardwillis4880]

No more Schluter?

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Nothing wrong with Schluter. Never had a leak and I don't like wood curbs wrapped in cement board. Cement blocks or foam curb cut down to 4 inches. There too tall

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

But everybody's got their comments so Life Goes On

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Schluter stands by their products if something goes wrong and if you didn't do anything wrong they will back you up

[@undefined000]

great video , not friendly for new , why don't you list the every material used ? such as mortar for 15 mins or 14 hours (type S), I repeat the video 10 times to write them down , it is hard for us.