How I feel as a Dutch Chinese

[@parmentier7457]

I am third generation Indonesian/Moluccan myself. Both my grandparents came to the Netherlands in the 50s. My parents were born in the Netherlands. However, to this day I still get the question 'where are you from?' I am from the Netherlands, no but where are your parents from? yes, also the Netherlands! Am I irritated by these questions, no. I understand that people including myself think in ethnic frameworks. But in my teenage years I did have an identity crisis, where do I belong? My father's side of the family thought I was Moluccan, my mother's side of the family thought I was Indisch. And to the Dutch I was a foreigner and when I went to Indonesia I was a Dutch person again. But I never really experienced discrimination in the Netherlands, I always felt accepted. Ultimately I feel like a citizen of the world and just try to be a good person.

[@igrien]

@@parmentier7457 exactly this 🙏 We’re all citizens of the world 🫶 I relate to so much you describe here. I think in the end our dual cultures have created a third culture which is all our own, uniquely to us individuals 🤗

[@operius2385]

The people that ask you where your from, are they older Dutch people? I ask because I think the last few generations of Dutch people are more accustomed to seeing more people from different backgrounds and they grew up with them. I'm 52 and really had to think about it, that people like you just might be the second or third generation that was born here and therefore are just as much Dutch as anybody else, and had to alter my way of thinking. And I can totally understand that those questions make you feel like (unintensionally) you're an outsider. But I think that behaviour will die out over time. Acceptance has to come from both sides, and it takes time.

[@igrien]

@@operius2385 I agree, it will grow out in time. Even though I was born and raised here, I have certainly felt like an outsider at times. Mostly because of people who will continue to see us as foreigners. When I was younger, that was a hard reality to accept. That no matter how hard I tried, I would never truly feel accepted. But I don’t believe anybody has bad intentions (I hope) and that it’s all just a lack of understanding from both sides.

[@āuroseGT]

People do not mean harm in that question. It is a genuine curiosity about you as a person, and instead of fighting that, you should think of it possitively. The fact that people care enough about you to ask and be interested about your herritage is something beautiful no?

[@igrien]

@ I think it’s about respectfully asking. That keeps it positive. And I think in the end we all welcome conversations 🙏 Just not when the person is clearly trying to treat us like outsiders.

[@hirsch4155]

I grew up Dutch in Canada it was like the opposite to you. I’m Canadian and Dutch but you’re actually more Dutch than me because you grew up there . Even though I had the Dutch influence at home (stereotypes that were true) lol. Also I had a lot of Asian influences because of the Asian community in my city.

[@igrien]

@@hirsch4155 That’s interesting! I’ve never met a Dutch person who grew up in another country before! Do you come here often and how does it feel when you’re here?

[@RogAlb1]

Wat leuk dat je dit deelt! Dank je voor het inzicht

[@igrien]

Dank voor het kijken! Waardeer ik!

[@blindwatchmaker2345]

still amazes me how people confuse feelings for facts.....and vice versa.......

[@igrien]

@@blindwatchmaker2345 😅🙈

[@corneliusantonius3108]

Jij bent gewoon een mooie Nederlandse meid met chinese roots.

[@igrien]

@@corneliusantonius3108 dank ☺️!

[@therealdutchidiot]

In the end, does it really matter how you should feel? Should you feel Chinese? Should you feel Dutch? It really doesn't matter. You can be a little bit of both.

[@igrien]

@@therealdutchidiot I guess you’re right, it doesn’t really matter anyway! As long as we’re happy!

[@rjdverbeek]

Zou het een idee zijn om deze video ook gewoon in het Nederlands uit te brengen? As it is now this video resembles a video of an expat living for a few years in the Netherlands.

[@igrien]

Goed idee! Ik ben nog aan het kijken hoe ik sommige thema's in het Nederlands wil doen en andere thema's in het Engels. Deze video had inderdaad ook in het Nederlands gekund!

[@KraKra-Ah]

@@igrienjouw engels is echt vloeiend. Geen NL of Chineed accent. Spreek je Manderijns en/of Cantonees? Mijn vrouw zou je 1e generatie (HK) chinees kunnen noemen. Alhoewel ze veeel te hard werkt heeft ze niet de 'hard ship' gekend zoals jouw moeder aangezien ze voor mij naar NL is verhuisd.. 😅 Haar conversational-Nederlands is prima... Toch praten we thuis gewoon engels. Misschien doe jij dat ook. Ik g je YT kanaal iig volgen.,, ❤

[@igrien]

@ Ik spreek zelf Mandarijns en Hokkien en versta Cantonees omdat mijn man Cantonees is. Thuis spreken we nu Engels voor ons dochtertje. Dank voor het volgen! 🙏🙏

[@regntonne]

What do the in chinatown streetnames translate to? Is it word for word translation or is it just phonetically?

[@igrien]

@@regntonne I believe they are literal translations!

[@Tjalie-j6i]

You aren't half anything. You are fully both. You can be fully Dutch and you can be fully Chinese. I'm Dutch and Chindo and can be fully 3 different ethnicities if i want to.

[@igrien]

I like your perspective on this. I do feel I’m both fully but at the same time none but perhaps somewhere in between!

[@leonaessens4399]

Does it matter? As far as I am concerned your nationality isn't a matter of birth. Your nationality is where your heart is. My greatgrandmother was Indonesian, my grandfather was born in Indonesia but became a doctor and spent his entire adult life in The Netherlands (Haarlem). I myself "feel Dutch" but am in fact born and raised in Indonesia. I spoke Bahasa before I spoke Dutch. I did live in The Netherlands in my early 20s and served in the Dutch Army for seven years, but eventually ended up emigrating to New Zealand. So what should I call myself? A Dutch Indonesian Kiwi Australian who maybe has reached the stage where where I should have no right to call myself anything? I lived in other countries as well, like Brunei/Sarawak, Singapore, Philippines, Fiji, back in Indonesia, separate stints in both Australia and New Zealand,, back in The Netherlands in the early 90s, etcetera etcetera. This whole nationality thing isn't as straightforward as it looks. Ultimately, I have an Australian passport but still "feel Dutch". I speak Dutch, and yes, Holland (as I still call it) is where my heart is. Not entirely logical, but there you have it. What can I do?

[@igrien]

@@leonaessens4399 wow that’s a lot! I’m surprised you don’t have an identity crisis! 😅 But I agree; maybe I should not try to find who I am but instead just ‘be’. Live life, enjoy, continue exploring the world and maybe when I’m 80 I can say who I was in the end 🤭

[@lakkakka]

@@igrien the problem of trying to find out who you are is that you only ever work with the past. You'll lose the present and the future. Also I'd say you're probably way more Dutch than Chinese. Unless you actively work with the whole chinese "face" cultural heritage. I bet you are more used to how we Dutch are more direct. That we prefer people to honestly admit mistakes and faults instead of always trying to sell a good image. Sure both the Dutch and the Chinese can be rude. The Dutch because they refuse to just back down on anything simply because of the emotions or culture of the other. Not because of sheer disrespect. But because they don't feel a need to alter their behavior to something they disagree with. Whereas with the chinese I always feel like they do it more to act "superior" which is tied into the face shtick again. So they tend to be way more angry and aggressive when I kick down their nonsense without respecting hierarchy, while a Dutch person might just get pissed off because I rub him the wrong way. There will be no extra idea of a "bad image" weighing them down that I have to deal with. So I'd say I prefer you to be Dutch in behavior then lmao. But you do you. As long as you don't harm anyone why should anyone intervene? I do know something about feeling alienated from groups. But in my case it is Autism. Like I can speak with people, interact with them. But somehow deeper understanding seems very elusive. Which makes it really hard to figure out the way to fit in the whole of it. And it kind of feels like unless I figure that out, the rest of my life I will be forced to deal with the friction I will have trying to deal with the whole while not fitting the space given. So yeah I can imagine the bs stress of identity crisis. Hope you'll figure out your answer.

[@igrien]

@@lakkakka aw thank you for your elaborate comment, I appreciate it! I do recognize the ‘face’ schtick in myself so that’s probably a cultural or generational trauma thing I still need to process. But other times I can also be direct and open about things, which to my mother and family makes me more Dutch in their eyes. I guess it’s never good. I don’t know what it’s like to be autistic but I can imagine it’s hard feeling like you don’t belong. I wish the world was more accepting of different type of people. Unfortunately we live in a world where being extravert and loud is rewarded and accepted more. I hope you will find your way in the world and navigate the you the world wants you to be and the you you are 🫶🫶

[@chansson1000]

It doesn't really matter as long as you feel happy about yourself. Nationality should be out of the question. Don't ask this question again. Just listen to your heart how you will feel happy.

[@igrien]

@@chansson1000 Thanks for the advice! That’s a good one! 👍

[@romanaleksandrovich8219]

>should I feel more chinese or dutch? >next slide: goes to the asian supermarket weeell, how do I tell you.

[@igrien]

Haha, I hadn't even thought of that!

[@collectioneur]

In the Netherlands it's called a "toko"...

[@igrien]

@@collectioneur thanks!

[@rjdverbeek]

Where is rhe link to the crowd fund?

[@igrien]

Helemaal vergeten! www.voordekunst.nl/projecten/17870-de-onbekende-verhalen-van-chinatown

[@NaamVerzinnen]

Your point about the cultural appropriation and whitewashing of Tea Kee is that it not the same as the street names in the area of ​​the streets in Zeedijk changing in chinese sign. Edit: I'm for change and nothing is as changeable as traditions, if everything stays the same it's only going backwards. I don't quite understand what's wrong with them specifying ingredients. On the other hand, I still think Starbucks and bubble tea are 'niet te hachelen' and way too sweet

[@igrien]

@@NaamVerzinnen Thanks for your comment! I believe in change too in order to innovate and move on in time. I think the street signs in Chinese are more a sign of respect to the community in that area. The regular Dutch street signs are still up. And regarding the whitewashing of bubble tea, I believe the case of the owners presenting their Bobba brand as ‘clean’ and ‘transparent’ is actually saying that the original bubble tea is the opposite. And then using it to further themselves financially, without an ounce of respect for the culture, that’s cultural appropriation.

[@NaamVerzinnen]

@@igrien Bubble tea is something from Taiwan I think, not from China. I personally see it as marketing, and not an attack on. I don't think you should look for a conspiracy in it. We certainly have to take everyone into account, but we are now too much on our toes because everything affects someone personally. Because that is the problem in today's society and maybe I contribute to it too. Too many opinions on social media that are accepted as true and no more common sense. (and I shared an opinion of mine on socials again 🤔). However, I found it informative and your mother is baddass

[@igrien]

@@NaamVerzinnen I never said it’s from China. I think most Asians identify it as being part of the Asian culture. I grew up drinking boba when it wasn’t ‘hip’ yet. Society has become fragile on some points, I do agree with that. But myself, as a Dutch born Chinese, I have felt inferior growing up in a ‘white world’, with enough people around me making fun of how I eat, talk or look all my life. But now that things have become ‘hip’, and money is to be made off of it, I just find it disrespectful the way they handled it. I have seen countless boba shops with non Taiwanese owners that were respectful and honoring the culture. This just was not it. Mom is definitely badass. Gave me a tough shield because of it. But I also realize that it buried some of the pains I have felt throughout life whenever I was made to feel inferior because of my ethnicity. Thank you for having a polite discussion with me 🙏 Topics like this are just hard and often carry many emotions. Understanding eachother is the only way forward.

[@Mr.House_]

Your not Dutch Chinese. Your Chinese living in a Dutch country that's it.

[@igrien]

Isn't that a Dutch Chinese? Or is it Chinese Dutch hehe!

[@koenvandam1281]

A Dutch country? Like their are multiple dutch countries? 😂. Voor mij als je hier geboren bent en je actief deel neemt aan de maatschappij ben je een Nederlandse van Chinese komaf (dutch chinese). In mijn ogen zou het een ander geval zijn wanneer je (zoals kinderen van sommige nieuwkomers) je puur houdt aan eigen taal, cultuur en wenst niet volledig deel te nemen aan de maatschappij buiten een gemeenschap met gelijke komaf. En diep respect voor wat je moeder heeft gedaan 👍👏

[@MasterWingman]

@@koenvandam1281 I concur. 👏👏👏👍👍

[@igrien]

@@koenvandam1281 eens. En ik voel me zowel Nederlands als Chinees. Maar daardoor ook niet helemaal Nederlands en niet helemaal Chinees op de een of andere manier 😅 Maar trots op beide delen van mijn identiteit ✌️

[@igrien]

@@MasterWingman 🙌