How i fit back boxes in smeggy lathe & plaster walls

[@williammartinculleton7523]

Before we had pad saws, we used hacksaw blades snapper in half, ground down to a point at one end & taped up the other end with insulation tape. Multi tools ? Wow 😂. PS, I go back a long way, I'm 80

[@algreene9965]

I'm 60 and hacksaw blade on cut on back stroke, never used multi tool on, when have used on solid timber does vibrate expect not good for old lathe and plaster

[@geoffupton]

the old ways are best! what would everyone do without power tools! nice to read how it used to be done 😊

[@mikeg8835]

@@algreene9965 I'm 60 too !! Remember the days of the snapped off hacksaw blade. I'm sure I used to have a holder for one. Young sparks nowadays dont know how easy they've got it

[@martin54123]

Yep, good old insulation tape the general diy handle, used that loads of times and I'm only 65!

[@andrewrobinson395]

Half a hacksaw blade and a short length of copper pipe as a handle squashed flat on one end to secure the blade made a great handle.

[@MrJonah53]

My father was a sparky, and the one tip he told me was, when working in older houses where mice could be living, put an extra hole through joists for them, that way they won't chew out the cables for access.

[@pablomagee2999]

Dum dum

[@MrJonah53]

@@pablomagee2999 I think after 60yrs in the trade, he knew what he was talking about.

[@MH-sf5ml]

Also leave a small bed so they don't use the cable for a nest

[@JP-nb7tm]

That’s a good one

[@user-sg1ku5hu5d]

Little buggers still chew the cables tho

[@quigofamily6362]

What we tend to do on lath and plaster walls especially if client wants metal plates is we break out a large section of lath from stud to stud at the height we want the box at and install a timber support for the box then fit the box and install and new piece of plasterboard. Works a treat and is properly solid.

[@ruaraidhmaccormick4677]

Me 2 best way

[@blueslsd]

Yep bit of filler around the plasterboard flat it, good solid fix.

[@Paranthropus2010]

Literally just finished a rewire on a 30s built house with lath walls throughout, managed to squeeze the Appleby boxes in to them with a bit of swearing. Customer says she wants a TV on that wall as well... Good luck I said. Also for fixing in a box to a brick already smashed from chiselling it out, I keep a bucket of plasterboard dab on the van, mix it up fairly thick and it goes off in a few hours rock solid. Keep up the good work Tom luv ya.

[@yensabi]

Matthew Nelson ... try using some bonding plaster with a couple of hand fulls of cement mixed in , its rock solid in 15 mins.....👍

[@beardedsparks2825]

We just did and some of us still don't need those tools, lol As to dry lining boxes in lath....not something I entertain. It costs the customer more, but I cut out a section of lath between the uprights, then I install a noggin and mount a metal back box onto it. Lastly I cut a piece of plasterboard to replace the lath I removed, then plaster over it.

[@ruaraidhmaccormick4677]

Yeah takes a bit longer not much but it’s a far better job the the cables are out of the way of nail guns etc when skirting goes on Just a bit of plaster board cut to size and it’s done

[@brianmoore5298]

Nearly my whole career has been rewiring old farm houses and the like, and this is exactly the way I've always done it. Cables in zone, all the way from below floor to the socket, and at sufficient depth to avoid screws and nails anyway.

[@paulbrown9175]

When I am pulling pvc cables through a hole in a joist I always put some soapy water on them with a old paint brush, it helps to stop burning and damaging the other cables and pulls through much easier especially if you're pulling the cables through on your own and the water soon evaporates away then you have finish.

[@lewistempleman9752]

What I normally do, as the joists/posts are every 300mm or so in a lathe and plaster wall, get a deep (47mm) metal back box, drill 2 or 3 holes in the side of it, cut the hole out the wall with the joist at one edge, slide in the back box and screw to the side of the joist. Provided the client's happy for some sockets to shift a few inches from intended position. I appreciate this insight into dry liners and low expansion foam, new solutions for me 👍🏻

[@MrJimtimslim]

Joists...posts....neither. try studs ffs

[@OldBenOne]

Yes, rock solid.

[@firsteerr]

they will be 16 inches on center

[@SteS]

The word you're looking for is studs. Joists are for floors.

[@PJB71]

Hi Tom, instead of using foam, get yourself a bag of bonding coat. Mix it up, slap it the hole, put in your back box, push it in & tap with a small hammer, until flush & square. Come back in 30 mins should be solid. Lathe & plaster , I sometimes put a bit of timber in the hole for the back box screw it from the other side of the wall, usually takes 2 people. Then screw your box to the timber batten, fill holes in wall behind. 👍🏼

[@pablomagee2999]

Chuck in a cup of cement with the bonding! Goes off quicker

[@supersparks9466]

Foam is quicker and easier to carry a can than having bonding and mixing buckets in the van.

[@MartiA1973]

Those Centaur boxes at 8:00 have to be worth a try. Thanks Tom.

[@joem9124]

I do a similar thing but I normally use mortar or bonding coat. Foam is a great shout, cheers Tommy!

[@whatthedeuse]

We use two bits of roofing batten pass them through the double back box hole then fix either side with wood screws through the plaster top and bottom then a 47mm glav back box as they have the fixing holes punched out around the front edge then fix to the batten. Also use a 400mm long 20mm flat bit to drill down from the back box hole through the crap in the bottom of the stud and then through the floor plate into the joist bay fucks the bit after a job or so but worth it or drill with an sds bit through the crap and finish the floor plate off with the flat bit avoids having to strip the plaster off, sometimes if screws the plaster but that’s just the nature of lathe and plaster 😅

[@HeathenGeek]

Nice info 👍🏼

[@viperrowe2606]

Another interesting upload. I find your videos really helpful, currently finishing lvl2 at college and find your videos gives an insight into how jobs ACTUALLY go rather than how they should go because a book says so. Keep the vids coming and much respect!!!!

[@gman8950]

Fantastic video mate, always look forward to them 👍🏼 Not a tradesman myself but find these really entertaining !

[@mrpete1972]

This has been one of the most informative videos for me as I'm about to move into a victorian property which no doubt will need some improvement. Thanks T.

[@ranbirsingh7666]

I use a mix of Plaster BONDING and BED the back box in to opening. Great video BTW 👌

[@julieannecharters6132]

same but use old plaster board adhesive mixed thick and sets really quick.

[@MagnetechSolidSolutions]

When performing a rewire these days we only use expanding foam. It's a fantastic material for stabilizing old walls such as lath and plaster. Even old block walls which have been bonded and skimmed where which the bonding has come away from the block due to poor scudding or simply age can be saved by drilling shallow holes to the Block and pumping in small amounts off low expansion foam. Noel Walsh MD Magnetech Solid Solutions Ltd

[@tncorgi92]

"Back in the 90s" ... God I feel old now. My first job was in 1981.

[@steveosshenanigans]

Paul Drake Same I finished training in East Croydon 1981

[@loosecannon5813]

Very good advice for new sparks out there who may only of had experience of plasterboard at college.....for the rest of us, the struggle is real.

[@martin54123]

When I started I made a selection of small saws (similar to modern pad saws) to make cut outs in lath & plaster, it was a pain but it was something you got used to, there wasn't an alternative.

[@seanmcneill8899]

Working as an electrician over 20 year's and the old way is the best. When working on old brick walls cables pipe box all tracked in to wall then good old sand and cement mix. Once it drys it's going no where.👍

[@xeno087]

I tend to run a blunt blade on the multi tool through the bottom glob of plaster on lathe walls - just to get the cables a little more recessed to make sure no one else snags them before the wall is plastered. I used to mix up a bucket of bonding and do all the boxes at once, but will definitely be switching to the insta stik method! Great vid as usual mate 👍

[@jamiedockerill4576]

Hi tom I usually multi tool out a square from one stud to another about 300mm deep and piece in a bit of plasterboard and use dry lining boxes.

[@carolconnolly7938]

Hi Tom, you should try the Worx WX plunge saw. Some will say it’s a bit DIY, but I find its great on house rewire jobs. It’s mega safe with the blade being covered all the time and you can fit diamond blades for chasing out. It also has a dust extraction outlet, so that you can fit a vac to it. I also find fitting a short length of round plastic conduit and a adaptor instead of capping, helps to hold the box in place.

[@007bushwakka]

Handy trick with the foam around back box, always look forward to your videos, keep up the good work

[@Capt4141]

In the states we cut boxes into lath by first finding the top and bottom of the center lath... completely cut out the center lath with a fine tooth key hole saw and half of each of the lath above and below the center lath.... this leaves enough wood to screw 1” #4 wood screws to secure the box

[@HandyKindaGuyUK]

Ohhhh you've opened yourself to the wrath of the "experts" on KZbin with this video. Love it!!

[@handyandy6050]

Hi Tom. Yes I know lath and plaster can be a git and a half. I mostly do it like You do. Thanks for the tips with the "blue" plaster boxes, I normally use Appleby, but nice to know these exist. Also thanks for tips on the foam technique. With lath and plaster I think You need all the tips you can get your hands on. I've been put off putting downlighters in lath and plaster ceilings before.

[@mikeberry304]

Great little circular saw there Tom, very helpful in your job , good tip to have adjustable depth to protect yourself and the customer, good video

[@Aliefizz]

Normally i use bonding, however i will be using this from now on. Thanks mate.

[@mattydubz481]

good tip with the foam Tom 👍 ive seen it done before but never needed to use it yet myself apart from that one time with a bathroom fan! 😊

[@michaelwalter6937]

I’m rewiring my house atm and I decided the best way was to cut out a section of lath and plaster to halfway across both uprights then cover with plasterboard. You’ve then got a modern fixing and very little making good work to do.

[@JPElectric]

Nice video. I use 47 mm boxes on lath and plaster. Also use the lath you have cut out, and put vertically across the laths to give the lugs something to hold on to. Bit fiddly though. Foam is great when you don't want to use bonding (external facing walls) I like to put a bit of grip fill round the edge of the box, (even if its plaster board) then with a bit of trunking lid across the box with two holes in for the screws, nip it up nice and tight, while the grip goes off. I find the cable in the boxes can move the box a little, and when you come back after its been skimmed, the box might have moved. The grip keeps it solid, and the plaster also won't pop around the edge. Wipe off the excess grip though, or you will have an angry plasterer.

[@leighdamian]

Good idea using the foam.Thanks for the upload.

[@SteS]

2:45 what if you removed say two or 3 laths at the very bottom and used a shop vac to clear the void to then run the cable as normal.

[@Brown969]

Thanks Tom for the video. I had always cut a full section of lathe and plaster and brought my own piece of 12.5mm plasterboard and used the Appleby boxes. Always use expanding foam in naff bricks!!

[@joefrayling9263]

Never thought of using foam I've always used bonding or drywall adhesive. Great tip I'll be using foam from now on

[@youngplumb1107]

Hi tom why not use mk flange boxes, that's all we use up here for lathe and plaster.

[@skamuk1]

I did not know these existed! Thanks mate

[@mrclive5]

There are plasterboard boxes around that are designed for double skin boarding, the lugs go way deeper. 👍

[@jamesswinyard530]

Tugs toys only found out about those a few weeks ago. Had to fit a data outlet into a double skinned wall. Ended up using my pad saw to chamfer out the back of the 2nd board. Could get a normal Appleby box in there. Was a right faff though!

[@jonwilson8643]

Just cut the small tabs on the yellow wings on the Appleby box - gives you miles more distance to push them back

[@cargunnutuk]

Hi Tom It's Tom :P Try using the MK K2061 and K2062 flanged plastic boxes and you can put 4 screws directly into the lath these work really well.

[@HeathenGeek]

oooh, ta

[@lunavx]

I've always used plasterboard adhesive for backboxes - goes off quick too

[@stuartandrews4344]

Dow Foam Very good, as to water I use a 1ltr or 2ltr hand sprayer to moisten surface. Bondit foam guns are great, as you can fully strip them down unlike some other brands.

[@shakeyh3565]

Hi Thomas keep up the good work, another tip on bedding metal back boxes on dodgy brick work ,I use bonding plaster tries quicker once it has dried drill a whole to secure it as normally do

[@jacekwojnarowski8597]

Again great video Tom...many thx for some new tips and tricks....should realise a book....Handy tops and tricks by Tom😂😂😂

[@graemescott990]

I love the fact that you show what you need to do in real life rather than - oh the book says this so I need to follow the book. Common sense its a rare commodity these days.

[@COUPEDUMMY]

Funny spotting this.. I used expanding foam to fix a back box a while back when I couldn’t secure it. I used a plasterboard foam adhesive from screwfix which was reusable. Was able to use the tin 3 times before it ran out.

[@callumrowley2203]

Love my little Bosch saw. Got one a few years ago when I was doing my own kitchen. Also was considering a Bosch heated jacket and those are the batteries that fit it

[@robbiewhelan]

nice tip with the foam

[@S88-m5y]

That’s a great tip with the foam keep up the great videos

[@1bigsyd]

Regarding the foam gun,always when finished using fully close the valve... a joiner told me that and I’ve never had a problem with blocking even on a gun that’s not been used for a few months

[@davidcampbell4264]

I always try to find a vertical joist and fix a metal box to that, buy the time the laf and plaster has been removed you only need to notch out a few mil of the joist, that only takes a minute with a multi tool and chisel

[@CXW429]

Even with lath and plaster, in north America you typically have vertical studs to affix the boxes to (not a lot of brick construction). I assume since you're working in victorian homes there isn't really a way since as you said, they just built a house. I've been rewiring some 100 year old houses and have had to make different things work! If I can't find a stud in a convenient location, I will just use an old-work box (in metal for Canada/blue plastic in the states), those are similar to the plastic boxes you used, I can't think of a better method! Good work as always.

[@simonharding1572]

nice idea on the foam

[@robkiss5272]

Thanks for the great tips, Tom. Really appreciate your videos!

[@connorharrison6176]

Mate duno how they do it in england but any time we do a rewire in northern ireland, domestic dwelling we use pvc pipe, do use not put any mechanical protection over the cables?

[@connorcop08]

Thanks for that tom! I’ll look into using the Centaur boxes. The amount of times i needed something like that, i would of finished the day an hour early😅😂

[@justincurrie8674]

If you have a spray water bottle, damp the area first as you did with bottle then watch the foam expand to desired thickness then spray it with water it stops expanding. saves going back to trim it.

[@mickuljatheseagull]

If that works then that's tip of the week for me.👍

[@stevejagger8602]

Talcum powder is an excellent dry lubricant for drawing in cables. Works well on T&E particularly when drawing new cable through existing bunched cable or through pvc trunking or conduit. Also good for drawing in singles through pvc conduit.

[@olliewaite5876]

Your videos are amazing. Thank you for creating them 👍

[@jangoofy]

5:46 - very artsy with the shadow of dripping foam :-)

[@robtno1]

Good Shout Tom thanks for sharing !

[@stevejagger8602]

Lime plaster with horse hair was typically used in Wales on lathe and plaster walls and the underside of slated roofs.

[@stevegee7593]

How we did it in the old days. Were hammer, chisel or bolster. To drill holes it was a rawplug tool. The hardest job I had was running Pyro a long a bank well, ended up using a size 6 with a half oz hammer, any heavier and the raw bit would shatter.

[@tombc9207]

By far the easiest way to fit a back box in poor brick work. Have had a few funny looks from customers though!

[@algreene9965]

When I know brick work not great I go old school with hammer and bolster

[@JP-nb7tm]

If there’s one thing I don’t miss after moving to Oz, it’s spending hours lifting up frickin floorboards. That was before multi tools as well.

[@mikeZL3XD7029]

JP, Over here in NZ, we ended up with a few things the Poms bought with them, mainly but not exclusively, floorboards, lath and plaster walls and ceilings (in houses built between the wars) and I have struck the odd house where there are BS 1363? outlets and ring circuits. Strange I know.....

[@supersparks9466]

I use back boxes which you can get the lugs behind 2 layers of plaster board, I think they may be Knightsbridge but not too sure while at home.

[@leehamson3688]

Some good tips there. Much appreciated!

[@johncajka5424]

i don't know what you call them in uk but i used to use a keyhole saw to cut plaster walls like that. it is a tapered saw with a handle on it, by hand!

[@tbavister]

john cajka pad saw

[@mikeZL3XD7029]

@ Thomas Nagy, One of the few power tools my boss, when I was an apprentice lashed out on was a 9" angle grinder, to work with lath and plaster walls. After having used that once, without any dust-mask or eye protection, I flatly refused to ever do domestic work ever again (I was a 3rd year at that time). I was threatened with the sack a number of times, but said I could work on commercial and industrial stuff and bring in more money. Fortunately for me, I was right and I never had to use the 9" again. Ever....

[@andrewscott6078]

Bonding plaster is excellent for fixing metal boxes to old walls , keep some for a couple of months in your garage and it goes off very quickly

[@swift2117]

What's the unibond adhesive you were using please ?

[@jgregory935]

Another great video👍🏻

[@theostaunton3999]

Well tomas I'm installing some swa glands and was wondering what the banjo is for thanks

[@yentl555]

Thomas i think they used surface-mounted socket .

[@paultipton743]

Another pain in the neck wall type is densely packed Straw boarded walls( prefab boards made of straw plastered over) , try chasing into that it sticks together and is quite tight.

[@devonfuse]

Having been a sparkie right through the 90s I can say that the multi tools made life easier. But I would, and still do, fix the back boxes to the timber frame and not to the laths.

[@laurencecutner]

Just want to send a general question. I'm doing an evening level 2 course in electrical installation at my local college. I'm about half way through and it's not going great, not learning an awful lot and the course as a whole isn't as structured as I hoped. Anyway our whole class has complained and sent a letter to head of department to get something back or improve the course. Has anyone had the same experience and does it get better with level 3? And I've looked a private courses but come across some dodgy ones, but the best one is hours away for me. Just want to know how everyone else trained?

[@noskills9577]

Most are the same I'd say, been there done and doing that... teach yourself and attend the course to get the but of paper. If your lucky enough to find a good place then hold on to it with both hands 😁

[@DanielT1991]

My level 2 was taught absolutely terrible. 5 different tutors, as mentioned once they have your money they don't care. I learnt most of what I know on the tools, level 3 is going kind of the same but if your keen to learn KZbin will tell you basically everything you want to know, you just have to want to learn.

[@ashmanelectricalservices4318]

That circular saw does look small but mighty 👍

[@algreene9965]

I have M12 saw, with the 6ah battery work well, struggles a little on knots, especially when cutting at max depth of 44mm

[@runthomas]

i use bonding to get a fixing...mix a bit in a pot and slap it in and then press your back box into it...very cheap and you only need a small trowel...no guns...no expensive foam...just some powder in a bag

[@scwfan08]

Why don't you use gypsum to fix the box?

[@supersparks9466]

I've got that little Bosch saw, you really need the bigger battery with it.

[@ruffshayv4363]

How many amps are you happy with in you're batteries?

[@druzzzzz]

The foam is good shout Tom, fair play especially with old houses but should it be... I don't know, sort of fire rated? Just a thought. Keep up the good work, love the videos.

[@KnugenMooMoo]

Like that little saw very smart that's going on works account thanks Thomas 🤣

[@covcarpenter9158]

Tom if you just turn the gun all the way off it turns the gun into a closed system essentially an extension of the can and will last for about 4 ish months otherwise if you havnt used all the foam in the can you waste half a can or what ever. Im a chippy and we use it for door frames ext

[@ridgmont61]

Is it worth using the multi tool on the bottom couple of lathes then tucking the cables behind? What is the reason for not using metal capping? Not viable?

[@williamn01]

Metal capping is a waste of time still nail or drill in to it no problem

[@davidkilpatrick18]

Try owning a house with Lath & Plaster walls and ceilings and nice crumbling bricks . Great fun doing work

[@Equiluxe1]

Instead of expanding foam you could use an instant grab adhesive, the one I found works best is "sticks like shit" from Jewsons, it will stick just about anything to anything.

[@Tom.02.]

Who ever built that wall was having a right 'lath'

[@skamuk1]

My kind of humour 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@reginaldcrudstump383]

New Bosch advertising slogan....."Try our new circular saw.....It's a powerful little fu**er!".

[@coyote5735]

Have you noticed a slow down in trade with the plague about?

[@sjefoekel6058]

Foam=Firehazard, if you still want to use it, put it only on the back off the box. Since the plaster on the edges will crumble off when installing the switches etc.

[@robertovolpato3507]

Why in UK dont use the corrugate plastic pipe to pass cable and wire?

[@johnhoward2104]

What benefit would it be, especially if installed at a shallow depth?

[@vladje258]

Hi, I am from belgium, We use for boxes in the wall cement or "knauf" We use a very difrend type of boxes and we never use metal boxes, they doesn't excist... And the cable in the walls, why they not in a flexible pipe? Regards!

[@johndaniells4440]

The flexible pipe isn't required to comply with our regulations. Some electricians use capping (plastic or metal) which fits over the cables and is nailed or screwed into the motar bed, some use an oval conduit. Not a requirement though.

[@paulmorrey733]

Thanks Tom

[@ryanatkins3013]

Good vid Tom 👍👍⚒️⚒️⚒️

[@mikedowell8028]

To fit boxes in lath plaster walls , bulk out sides and back of holes with newspaper or wall paper , knock in knock outs a little bit , try box in hole to see if box fits easy , put finish plaster in hole , push box in to required depth plaster should ooze out a bit make sure it’s straight and leave to dry . old damp plaster goes of very fast so use that , fitted hundreds like this takes a bit of skill but the best way , also used to be that you could notch out joists and fit a metal plate over cables as long as it was the thickness of metal conduit for protection floorboard .does not really stick up very much with this method you would have to check regs to see if you can still do this , lot lot better than drilling joists ,

[@gavinwalker77]

I use CLICK back boxes for this or on double plasterboard or when ply behind and you need more lug depth

[@shaunsparky5354]

Lathe and Plaster: I think you meant to say....All of the shit falls to the bottom plate of wall! Making it difficult to find a route for our cables🤣. Personally, I use 'bonding' plaster to fix into brick walls where screw fixings won't do the job. That said, I will look into the durability of expanding foam . Back to the L&P walls...I'd prefer to see a section cut out and noggin fixed across uprights for our box to sit on. Maybe even replaced with a decent portion of 12mm plasterboard where we are installing our accessory (in the case of dryline box)? Keep up the good work TN!😎

[@DaddyBear3000]

The centaur boxes are a lot better than the yellow boxes you get at screwfix. I’ve done a lot of reinforced walls with ply and plasterboard and the blue clip boxes are perfect.

[@pablomagee2999]

Can u imagine telling the customer “ I have to run a separate row of holes everywhere for mice tunnels” that’s an extra £100 please

[@sparx2391]

😂😂😂😂