How I Got Dropped by a Literary Agent

[@hannahk8620]

The pure honesty of this video, love it! Thank you so much for sharing, it feels crazy to tell people who you think should know better than you "no I'm keeping this element of my story just because its mine and I like it." but hearing this video makes me feel like I now have permission, so thanks again! lol

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

That’s a really hard thing to do! Balancing your self-belief and your openness to learn is one of the hardest things about writing I think. It feels like a leap of faith of sorts, you just have to go with trust your instincts and jump! 😂 I think that’s one of those things you never really get used to doing, too. I’m not surprised I changed my story, but hopefully I can make the better choice if it ever happens again! Thank you so much for watching!

[@andreannelavoie660]

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry you got strung along like that!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you! I think it probably took two to tango to be honest! I think the agent and myself both learned valuable lessons!

[@justincorson3155]

Thanks for a great and insightful video. I've been writing, serious writing since 1996. I've self published one book in 2006. My goal was to show people, one I wasn't all talk when I would tell them, "Yeah, I'm a writer," and two, to test myself, my voice, what I'd learned about the craft at that point and by getting feedback, to know if I was wasting my time. I'm still writing. I've been crafting a series since my wife and I met in 2003. I've had moments of doubt. I've had the feeling I should be slanting my work to a certain market or demographic and none of that worked. What I'm trying to say is I agree with you and that writing for anyone else, changing one's story to fit a preset mold is only compromising personal and creative integrity. I finally decided, I was going to write the story I needed to tell. The story that I wanted to read. The rest will fall into place. The only reader I try to write for and impress is my wife as she knows the world and characters I've created as well as I do, and she tells me when I'm not being true to a particular story and or character. In the end, I know my books will find an audience without me influencing it otherwise.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks so much for stopping in and sharing your thoughts with me. I very much agree with what you said about slanting work this way or that, I just don't think that kind of approach to writing could work for me either. Like you, my intention is just to keep writing what I feel inspired to write. I feel that's path that will bring me to my best writing, and subsequently writing that will appeal best to readers. I can see why people write to market and all that, but to me, writing the stories I want to tell is more important than making money.

[@NicoleWilbur]

Oh boy! That was quite the rollercoaster ride. What a frustrating experience but so interesting to hear about and lots of things to keep in mind! Publishing is a goal of mine...someday but for now, like you, I’m trying to improve my writing by writing things I love! As for the UK author writing a story set in the US, that doesn’t seem off to me at all. I’m fairly certain Canadian authors write stories set in the US all the time! I do think that it would be more problematic having it come the other way: Americans writing stories set in Canada/ UK (or Canada at least because we have a bit of an identity crisis up here.) Compared to the US, our “culture” is exported a lot less to other countries so I could maybe foresee some sort of representation issues in that books about Canada become popular abroad relatively rarely so it might upset people if the writer was not a Canadian...maybe? .what an interesting comment! It’s nothing I’ve ever thought about myself before.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

It was a strange situation to be in, I just naturally assumed the agent knew better and went with it 🙄 and who knows, perhaps she did in my case! That's a good point about our cultures being less exported than the US, I hadn't thought of that but I think you're right. Yeah, no idea what I'm planning for future publication attempts, but hopefully this might help someone else who has their eyes on 🙂

[@chriswilliams6326]

Just saw this old video, liked your honesty and agree with your comments about going with your gut. If you want to write a story set in another country, don't let anyone stop you. It might be more difficult practically and technically, but your writing challenge then becomes more difficult and more rewarding if you succeed. I'm Australian so I write from that perspective. But, the novel I'm writing now is set in Japan and Germany. It's a challenge, but, hey, isn't all good writing?? Thanks again Kieran.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you, I think you have to go with your gut. For me, that's where the energy for my story comes from. Once that's gone, my enthusiasm runs out fast. All good writing is for sure a challenge! Thanks so much for sharing with me, I appreciate it and good luck with your writing!

[@Swademedia]

Wow, thanks for sharing that story, man. And I see no problem for an author from the UK writing a story set in the US. Or the other way around. It’s all about the story and if I connect with the story!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks for watching! Not my finest hour when it comes to writing, but I like to be honest about stuff in the hopes it might be useful to someone else.

[@L.DacreTynan]

Hey KW - Really enjoyed your recounting of this experience. (As you may have known...?) I'm an Aussie, writing a SciFi YA [climate fiction] set in... Phoenix, Arizona but the story takes us to Hanoi, Vietnam / Yerga Chefe Ethiopia / Dusseldorf, Germany. Have I been to these places? No. O_o And the first half of your video had me scared, but what a brilliant 'writers-life lesson' you've shared. The setting must be 'believable'. The writer NEEDS to put the reader there, in that world, and this can come down to research and planning, constructing solid reliable prose. To me it is similar to being told you can't write about 'murder' and 'political subterfuge, because you haven't experienced life as a spy... or strangled someone? In any event, I feel for you ~ I hope you don't feel like your best story is in your past, lost to the years, and am positive your best writing is ahead of you! It is for us all! I have enjoyed having a Chicago-based beta-reader for my WIP, as they have given some reliable insights on terminology. Thanks again! ~ Dacre ~

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Hey! Since it was my second novel, I'm confident even my best version of it wouldn't have been all that great, judging by what else I was writing at the time, so the lesson itself I think was more valuable than the book was. Your book sounds good! For the first time in my WIP I'm looking at using a lot of different locations throughout the world too, so I'm right there with ya. Still going to do it, just going to do it well...hopefully! I don't generally follow the 'write what you know' advice, because I always end up being petty and saying 'Did Tolkien know the fires of Mount Doom from experience?' and other such snarky things, but I suppose that's taking the advice a little too literally! Having a beta reader in that area of the world is a great idea though, hopefully when the time comes for me I can find one wherever the bulk of my story ends up being 😀

[@L.DacreTynan]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting Thanks mate, appreciate your reply and further comments! ^_^ Indeed, the "write what you know" mantra can be set up to be used against many insightful ideas, and capable writers. I've made a point of framing that mantra around the aspect of 'theme' within my story, so I do apply it within a specific set of writing rules. I lol'd at your JRR Tolkien line. Classic. It would also apply for every story set in space, time travel, period-settings etc. It can go on and on. Love that you are expanding your interactions, (discord), for me personally I have had a below average experience with it, and I've created a nice balance (for my needs) between getting what I need out of Twitter/KZbin so that I am just concentrating on the writing at hand. Can't wait for your next video, bro. What have you got lined up for your next 10min Technique? See you soon.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Dacre Wordsmith It’s all a matter of balance isn’t it, I’m sure it’s good advice in some scenarios but I find it a bit prohibitive when new writers take it as gospel. No worries on the discord thing, I’ll always be around and answering comments on videos and also twitter etc myself ☺️ In terms of next TMT, I’m not too sure yet, but I’ll try and make it a good one since it’s been a while since the last!

[@darkbluematter1753]

I'm from Phoenix, Arizona. Lived there 30 years. So if you have questions, happy to answer them. Or read your Phoenix AZ stuff and tell you if it's accurate or at least accurate enough, LOL.

[@nextinstitute7824]

Hey Dacre, I had to laugh about your imaginary ventures into unknown countries. Reminded me of a writer, who visited me when I was living in Hong Kong. He wanted to go to the dog races in Macau, because they featured in his manuscript. We went there and it was great fun, but he was in shock. You see, in his book there was a sequence of events taking place during a run (a murder etc), while in fact, a dog race lasts only 1-2 minutes or so 😂😂 but of course, all is allowed in fiction 😬

[@nehukybis]

I live in a small city in the midwest (US), in Jesse James country. My parents were both from small rural midwestern communities and I've lived in them myself from time to time. And it doesn't bother me at all. Write the book you want to write. Now, if it's your intention to write a gritty, realistic novel set in rural America, and you don't really know anything about it, it's probably going to suck. Among other things there is no "rural US". There are thousands of rural counties in the US and every one has its own distinct culture. But that can actually work to your advantage. The vast majority of your readers will be in no position to tell you that you're wrong. Just avoid obvious silliness, like forgetting (most of) rural America has cell phones, internet access and paved roads, just like everywhere else.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks for your thoughts, what you said makes total sense. If you, as the author, bother to do enough research and make the effort, then I agree, tell your story. Not sure how much research I did on the initial version of my story, but if I'd written the rest as I'd wanted it, it would have taken quite a bit. Even still, like you said, it might have sucked!

[@nehukybis]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting The language is probably the hardest thing to get right. Language changes more slowly than technology does. In my father's neck of the woods any sugary carbonated drink, regardless of brand, is a "sodie pop". If you ask for a "pop, coke, soda or soft drink" they'll know what you mean, but they'll also know you aren't from around these parts. Bigger picture, your mistake was relying on someone else to decide whether you were a success or a failure. A stranger, no less. Plus, you put all your eggs in one basket.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Aaron Z Ah, I’ve heard about people using what name you use for a carbonated drink to figure out where you’re from. The same is true here but on a smaller scale. Yeah you’re absolutely right, I was inexperienced and too eager to avoid kissing an opportunity.

[@laurabesley7095]

So interesting to hear this part of your writing journey, Kieren. I do think the power balance between agent/author is completely out of kilter. I'm not sure why that is or why as authors we feel (or are told) we have to do *anything* to please them. I think it's safe to say she wasn't the agent for you and you've done brilliantly forging your own path.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks Laura! I'm happy with the route I've gone down, I think it was important for me to realise that a lot of the joy of writing for me is in trying to help others do the same thing, and I wouldn't have had as much chance to do that otherwise. You're right though, the power balance is totally skewed. The fact that most agents don't even bother replying to queries I think pretty poor.

[@laurabesley7095]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting I agree that is pretty poor. It's the same with some competitions; the first you know of the results is seeing other ppl celebrating on social media.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Yeah, from handling a mailing list myself I know it's simply not that hard to send every unsuccessful person a form email to say thanks. I don't understand why they don't.

[@laurabesley7095]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting I've heard exactly the same from other people with mailing lists. If ever I enter and that happens, I don't enter again. It just isn't right or respectful in my opinion.

[@crlaurentiu1120]

Amazing advice! Thank you! I'm close to completing my first novel (not in english) and I just about gathered enough courage to send it to a professional in the near future. I have a certain vision for it and I would be bummed if I'm asked to change the story dramatically in order to make it conventional. I flirted aswell with short story writing and got published online on a small local SciFi web magazine and that gave me hope to write a novel. I also work full time. Keep up the good work, love the channel!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Hey, that's great! Congrats on your publication and finishing your first novel. That alone puts you further than the majority of people will ever get with writing. I had a similar situation with a literary agent a few years ago who wanted me to make fundamental changes. I should have stuck to my vision, but it was a great lesson to learn. I'll post a link to that video at the bottom in case you're interested (it's quite old now so not as well put together as recent videos) but I wish you the best of luck and I hope the process goes great! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKHQe2iha8yjhJY

[@crlaurentiu1120]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting Thanks! I can't wait for you to publish your novel. I will buy it in any format. I loved Gold Fury, your flash fition novella, quality writing. Cheers!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you! I really appreciate you getting it! The novel could be a while yet, but I'll update on the channel as I go along I'm sure 🙂

[@crlaurentiu1120]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting Take your time, don't rush it 🙂

[@Johnnysega]

Great channel. Should have way more subscribers

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you!

[@stephimarion]

I’m Canadian and currently writing a novel set in rural New England US. Hopefully I can give the setting justice... I have travelled there and have done a lot of research 🤞

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I bet you can! 😊 In my opinion as long as you approach it with care, which you’re already doing, then there’s no reason you can’t do it justice. I recently found out the real value of sensitivity readers for this too, the advice and details of someone who comes from that place can do wonders for your story ☺️

[@achristinaportillo3548]

Very good story. Thank you

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you! And thanks for hopping into the Discord too ☺️

[@DaveMcE]

I live in the states and I think it's fine. Hans Christian Andersen wrote a story with a character set in Italy called The Improvisatore. He only visited Italy, but the story was well received. I'll add, you've gone further than I have so far. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[@erinjdoyle]

I see no problem with a person from one country writing a story set in another, as long as there is suitable research/respect.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Definitely, if the respect and the effort is there I think that's a different thing than someone assuming they know, or not bothering to find out. I suppose it depends on the level of detail and all sorts too. That could almost end up as a video in itself!

[@englishandcompositionlearn6745]

When I revise anything I'm writing, I always keep a copy of the original draft. That way, if I decide at some point I liked the original version better, I can still go back to it. I'm curious to know if you kept your original draft. If the revised version was never picked up and never shopped, you could still write that book the way you originally wanted to.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I did keep the original yes, my approach is the same as your. I've considered rewriting it a couple of times but ultimately haven't. The time to do it would have been when it was fresh I think, and I just didn't have the energy then.

[@PAULINECheung-j7t]

My specialist budget cookery book is with literary agents atm but none of them have responded back to me. I don't know if I have where I stand, have they rejected me or, considering on working on getting it traditionally published? Or do I self-publish without the income to fund it in advance? I want to know where I stand with them. I actually think it is very rude of them not responded and keeping me hanging on a shoe string. What would you do?

[@JenniferHashmi]

Agents want to control the narrative. No writer can allow this interference. Writing is an art form and must be free. Imagine telling Emily Bronte to re-write her book! Take it or leave it would have been her response. And should be.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I agree entirely! Take or leave it should have been my response too.

[@toryhunterbooks]

Did you ever rewrite the novel to align with your original vision? If not, are you working on something new?

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I’ve thought about revisiting it or reimagining it, but truthfully I think I’ve cooled on the idea now. Was still a really valuable learning experience though. I’ve written a few novels since then but lately I’m really enjoying writing shorter stuff ☺️

[@zrienkersh1475]

I feel this. Whatever you do, don’t write a book set in a country with mostly people of color if you’re white. I wrote set in Uganda, where I’d lived for a decade (but I’m white). Got an agent. Then got rejected by every publisher who all said they liked the book but… it was too controversial/political. It was a family drama… but my identity made it political. Was a very demoralizing experience.

[@tthettai]

Honestly sounds fair to me you got rejected. Especially depending on what your story is about because you’re capitalising on a culture that’s not yours.

[@The_Novu]

Its why you tell them to eat shit and you self pub.

[@The_Novu]

​@@tthettaiAbsolute nonsense.

[@JoeyPaulOnline]

I've read some amazing books by UK authors with stories in the US and vice versa, but i have also read a series by a UK author thats in the US and it did not work!

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Like everything with writing it seems, it probably does come down to who's doing it and how I suppose! It's a good lesson to learn about assumption and research for sure.

[@azulfleur]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting About the UK-USA thing - Lee Child

[@JFerguson777]

I love Lee Child books and most are set in the USA and he's from UK. I think it's totally doable.

[@colleenjune7534]

Try small presses!

[@ZachSmacks7]

I'm from India. All that the Indian authors can write is some cheap romantic crap. So I read novels from writers all over the world. I had/have no problem with a writer writing a story set in some other place or country. Well, I'm sorry for you. It might have been so frustrating to be in a situation like that. But as always, there are ups and downs, and I'm glad you got past that situation. Btw, where can I read your works? I really want to read your book, "Hollow". I saw it's trailer and it was amazing. *Waiting for your reply*

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I absolutely believe in not being limited by what you're expected to write, especially based on what country you come from. Write what you feel inspired to write 🙂 The experience with the agent was frustrating at the time but really valuable overall I think, I learned a lot and I get to pass that on to anyone who watches this video, so that's good enough for me! I know you've already seen it by now, but there's a story of mine at kierenwestwood.com and I posted one in the Discord too 👋

[@allenltate]

That would be very frustrating feeling like you're getting strung along like that. I thought it was going to end "the I saw my story stolen and published by someone else." Glad that didn't happen. Being British and writing about the US wouldn't be annoying at all, it works for Lee Child who writes the Jack Reacher novels. I would have to say the most annoying thing, to me, about living in a place and reading something or watching a show/movie set in that place is when the geography is completely wrong. I live near the Black Hills and Badlands NP. 'Warehouse 13' was supposed to be set in the Badlands, but they made it like Iowa, green and full of trees, couldn't watch it after that. Same with a Jack Reacher novel. The geography was wrong and the travel times across the state were unrealistic, it just killed it for me. But we do have a cult with a compound and some local 'folklore' about it, so there is that. I heard a bit of advice from somewhere else, too, that seemed sincere: write the kind of story that you want to read. If you write a story set in the US I'd read it, and probably correct you're geography, lol. But seriously now, you're advice, along with some other channels I've been watching, has helped me to actually just start writing, even if it might not be good yet.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I forgot all about Jack Reacher, that's a great example! Ah, those small moments that break immersion are a bit unforgivable. Writers ask quite a lot from readers really, but suspension of disbelief can only go so far before you just topple right out of the story. Thanks so much, i'm so glad my videos could help you get going! There's loads of people making great videos on here and writing really is one of those things you can teach yourself with a bit of time and it's so satisfying.

[@queensavcy]

I love the Brits. “Disappointed” and “annoyed.” Most Americans would have been furious lol. Great video (even if I’m watching it years later). Thx for sharing.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Haha, you're not wrong :D I almost went to 'ticked off' but thought that was a bit too foul-mouthed!

[@queensavcy]

@@KierenWestwoodWriting whoa.. there’s no need for that sort of language, man. Calm yourself.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Feel free to join our discord server here: discord.gg/c6gZS2p Feel free to let me know what you'd like to see in the server! I want to make it the ideal place to talk to other writers, swap work and stay engaged with writing 🙂

[@sgtUSA2012]

I know this video is now 4 yrs old and you’re likely’ve learned a lit since this posting but I do have an opinion on your comment about citizens of different countries writing books based in other countries. Well, it can be a hard sell. But I think it’s about perspective. Have you have been to the US? Do you have any first hand knowledge about the last you’ve been writing about? If not, it would be very difficult for a publisher to see this as a sell. Maybe if you’d written it’s setting in a place where you’ve created it. As a writer you’d be able to (or should be able to) create the environment you imagine.

[@MeredithPhillipsWrites]

"Obviously didn't say anything to the literary agent. Because why communicate...?" hahaha it's me. But oh man, two years?!? That's so frustrating. Have you considered going back to the original version of the book and sending that out again? I don't want you to give up 😭 In terms of a UK writer setting a story in the US or vice-versa, I think it can absolutely work if you put a some time and research into it. I'd have no problem with it at all. There's definitely weird little cultural differences that you might not know about or you might use a term that's common in the UK and not here in the US. But if you had an American reader as a beta reader, they'd catch that and you could fix it. It would probably also help if you'd visited the area of the country you were writing about just to get a better sense of that place in particular. But honestly, I think a lot of UK/US culture is very similar. I think it'd be harder to set a story in a place that was wildly different.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I've come to terms with it now 😂 The moment for that story kind of passed. Plenty more stories in the...sea? You're right on weird little cultural things, some stuff just never gets written down anywhere research would ever find it. From that, I can see the attraction of authors creating their own entire universes! I just don't have the imagination!

[@nehukybis]

As an American my sense of it is that the average person in the UK knows way more about the US than the average person in the US knows about the UK. I mean, I've seen TV shows from the UK that casually mention Texas or Florida and assume their audience has some baseline understanding of what those states are like. I don't think you could assume the average American knows Cornwall from Yorkshire. You could blame the woeful state of American education but I suspect it has more to do with how long American pop culture dominated the globe.

[@MeredithPhillipsWrites]

@@nehukybis That's true! I think it must have to do with how much American media gets sent overseas, especially TV/movies. We hardly have anything over here from the UK it seems. I remember watching Are You Being Served? and Keeping Up Appearances on PBS, but that's about it, hahaha! And definitely agree about the geography. I know where some stuff is, but only because I've been there. Other places, though...I have absolutely no clue.

[@nehukybis]

@@MeredithPhillipsWrites From around 1970 to 2000 American TV was terrible. I watched Monty Python, Cracker, Yes Minister, Jeeves and Wooster and Blackadder instead. I read a lot of British SF and comedy writers too. Since I was a loner generally I ended up unconsciously developing mid-Atlantic speech patterns and mannerisms. Which made me sound like a snob, which in turn reinforced the introversion. None of that prepared me for my first trip to the UK. It felt a bit like being in an alternate universe where most people aren't screaming narcissists. The quiet and the orderliness was a bit unsettling. Except for the children, obviously. They were fiends shaped like miniature humans.

[@BigDaddyJinx]

I know for me, I wouldn't care a sniff where the author was from and where the setting of the novel took place. Is it something I'll enjoy reading? Yeah? Then we're golden. Now, if the writer is so out of their depth and they talk about this horrible snowstorm they're facing and this is set in LOS ANGELES...then yeah, I'd be removed from immersion and would likely stop reading at that point. Yes, that's all it would take. To have a setting and then something so anachronistic about your plot that removes me from immersion immediately. I would only have to hope that a good enough writer writing about a setting they've never seen would research it enough to avoid such things in the first place. Really though, if you're from Germany and writing about a setting in London, or Australia, or the US...I wouldn't care as long as your story catches my attention and is entertaining to read. Pigeonholing someone to write about a setting in the UK SIMPLY BECAUSE they are from the UK is preposterous. You, as a writer, are building a world that may not exist. Or if it exists, this is how you're imagining it. As long as you don't go right off the rails with your imagination of the setting, keep writing.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks, that's how I feel too. The more I think about my interactions with that agent, the more I'm inclined to think there was something going on that I wasn't aware of. The whole dynamic with them always felt a bit strange. Glad to know other writers see it like I do.

[@davidbrannon5003]

You have no idea of the amount of not so good things I have to say about the publishing industry. Think I'll write a book about it...

[@TXVETJEB]

I know I'm 3 years late to thhis, but to answer your question, No, i would not mind reading a U.S setting written by a UK author. Provided I couldn't tell a UK author wrote it. You'd have to get it right.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thanks! I appreciate the insight for sure :)

[@EddyMerlyBorjaLit]

wow this is a horror story

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

I learned a valuable lesson, I’ll say that for sure!

[@MaryTur-3]

It's not you who lost an agent it's the agent who lost you. The comment about the country is silly, I haven't moticed american suffering because of Harry Potter or Sherlcok Holmes being in the UK and vice versa. It's good that this situation didn't destroy your desire to write. You should try traditional publicing just to see how it is now and close this gestalt.

[@KierenWestwoodWriting]

Thank you, that's a great way to look at it!