How I Know Mormons Really are Christians Part 3

The Christian Story is of a Father and a Son and the Human Race. Are we God's children or mere Creatures? Did God conceive or our nature and form outside of something that already existed? Or, are we actually created in God's image, male and female?
Why are there so many churches professing to be Christian and different in their doctrines and teachings?
This video represents my own opinions. I speak as an individual and while I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have no position to represent the church officially and my observations and experience are my own.
Official teachings and positions of the Church on on its website.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org.

[@shanethompson2406]

Always enjoy your stuff brother. I wish I had the patience you do when you face the fiery darts from the creedal Christian’s.

[@brucenorth5337]

KZbin suggested this video to me and I'm glad it did! You are spot on and I love your testimony. Thank you for taking the time to share the restored gospel of Jesus Christ with the world!

[@SavageJoe1775]

Hopefully you come to the Truth one day.

[@charlesbrown1245]

@@SavageJoe1775 The truths of God have been restored to the earth through living prophets. If you are looking for a greater understanding of God, your Heavenly Father and your Savior Jesus Christ. I would highly invite you to listen to some general conference talks of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you’ve never read the book of Mormon, you should read it. I testify that it is the word of God along with the Bible. You will feel your Savior’s love. www.churchofjesuschrist.org

[@jackhimes4400]

Sir, you expressed frustration with Christians who do not accurately understand Mormon teachings, and then who strawman them based on the wrong ideas. Perhaps I am wrong about LDS theology, but basically every time you explained Christian theology you proved that you had a fundamental misunderstanding about what we believe. Do better. Hypocrisy has no place in dialogue.

[@charlesbrown1245]

Good observation about the accuracy of mainstream understanding and representation of the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ. I am not misrepresenting the teachings of so called mainstream Christianity. My observations are easily verifiable by traditional Christian scholars. What you learn at your Bible study classes is the version biblical apologists want you to hear. If you are a Protestant or Catholic, these doctrines to not teach that Jesus is the Son of God because God isn't a person but a mystical power of some kind that does not have children. The trinitarian person of Jesus is just a temporary metaphorical representation of a son figure to fit the narrative of the Bible. They change the definition of father and son to suit their twisted theology of an imageless deity that is triune in nature but incomprehensible to humans. kzbin.info/www/bejne/earbgaKeaMyapcU

[@jackhimes4400]

​@@charlesbrown1245 I will agree that most people don't know the Mormon teaching on things, especially most lay Mormons lol. I have had to tell many a Mormon about basic facts from their religion, like that Joseph Smith was a polygamist--something that they vehemently disagreed with until I showed them primary sources. You are indeed misrepresenting the Christian belief on things. Usually when someone tells me I am misrepresenting them, I ask, "where do I misunderstand you?" But you have instead chosen pride. Humility has great power in communication--I recommend it. I don't know where you got the idea that I am taking classes or am being fed information from some apologist, but almost all of my study is conducted alone. Baseless claims only support your echo chamber, they don't offer any reason for me to join the madness. Here is an example of you misrepresenting the Christian position: (@6:47) "So what was God's purpose of creating man--Adam and Eve specifically? Well if you look at Protestantism and Catholicism, it's God just wanted to have fellowship with people but had never created people before. That's the part that gets me: why did God all of a sudden start to do this? And of course people say, "well God's ways are higher than your ways" and "you know, you can't figure out what God was thinking; He can do whatever He wants He's a sovereign spiritual force." And of course I've had discussions with very rational people who point out the fact that if God was already perfect, why create? There's absolutely no need to create." You say that we have to reckon with the idea that God all of a sudden wanted to start creating. This is counter to the Christian idea that God is beyond time. You cannot say, "when did God decide to create?" This is a category error. Of course the Mormon teaching gives a particular point in time in God's life when He decided to start creation of this Earth, but the Christian has no concept of this. You assume God is in time, which assumes Mormonism, and then you say that the Christian view is incompatible with your Mormon presuppositions. That's only true if your Mormon presuppositions are true, which I don't hold. The Christian idea, as you correctly assert, is found in God's aseity. God doesn't need His creation. There was no "time" before when God existed apart from creation, because God created time, along with space and matter. He simultaneously produced the 'where', 'when', and 'what'. Time does not constrain God, rather God creates time. Therefore, God did not "suddenly begin" to create. As to a why: God wanted to. This satisfies the principle of sufficient reason. You say that the Christian version of God is non-personal, but that is just not true. The Trinity is literally a distinction of personality--a tri-personal God. Jesus is eternal, along with the Father and Spirit. I don't know where you get the last paragraphs from but literally no Christian would affirm them.

[@corneliusloewenstein8691]

Great job.

[@parker_chess]

Left the LDS recently and now am a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. The importance to me is the truth. Christ established his church and appointed Apostles. He proclaimed that the gates of hades would not prevail. Many Christians were martyred and shed blood for the faith but despite this overtook the Roman Empire and Christianity became the most widespread religion in the world. The Book of Mormon does not have serious historical evidence. It feels true because many verses were taken and rewritten from N.T. verses. Mixing truth with falsehoods. The Book of Abraham was shown to not to be an authentic translation by even LDS Scholars at BYU. Go to an Orthodox Church and see for yourself. Protestantism is false but so is the LDS.

[@charlesbrown1245]

@@parker_chess Here is the test of your theology. Do you believe that God created the family? Do you believe that the pattern of creation of us humans in the image of God, male and female is eternal or temporary? All things create after their own kind, male and female. Why do you think a genderless trinity did this? Do you believe Jesus was telling the truth when he said he was the Son of God, or that God was his father? Do you believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh.

[@leeannballard6996]

Jesus specifically said not to add or take away from his word • THE BIBLE • JESUS CHRIST IS GOD IN THE FLESH ~ JESUS IS THE WORD/The Bible 📖 The BOOK of MORMON is fairy tales!!! Lies mixed in with truth

[@SavageJoe1775]

You had me in the first half, not gonna lie. But that last line was really biased and very anti-Christ.

[@charlesbrown1245]

@@SavageJoe1775 Do you mean saying that if the Trinity doctrine were true that God and Jesus would be metaphorical beings? I testify that they are real persons. Heavenly Father is the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only begotten son of the father in the flesh. Assuming that the Trinity doctrine were true, since the Trinity concept denotes a genderless being, it cannot be two male beings. In order for it to fit the narrative of the Bible, the invisible genderless Trinity would need to transform into two male beings, who are father and son. They would be simply metaphorical, father and son since they are not literally such. This is what early ecumenical councils did that became foundational Catholic doctrine, which the Protestants also accept. This isn’t how they explain it to you because they don’t want faithful believers to have doubts about its truthfulness. It is simply the “philosophies of men.”

[@parker_chess]

@@leeannballard6996 Don't use poor arguments against Mormonism because it only legitimizes them. The Biblical canon took centuries to develop and Revelation was the most controversial book included in the N.T. canon. And to this day people misinterpret Revelation moreso than any other book in the Bible. The truth is Christ established his Church and appointed Apostles. They ordained successors through the laying on of hands. Today we see a succession of Bishops going all the way back to the Apostles in both the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church.

[@nemoexnuqual3643]

They aren’t. Mormons are polytheistic and claim God was born of another God and believe they will one day be gods. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.”

[@nemoexnuqual3643]

The Christians also do not worship the same God as Islam. We can easily prove this by pointing at the cross and asking a Muslim “is this a picture of your God.” Because Jesus is the second person of the Trinity and is God any who deny the Holy Trinity are not Christian and are not worshiping the same God no matter what they call their deity.

[@charlesbrown1245]

You are spinning the definition of polytheistic to fit your apologetic rhetoric. In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we worship one God, Our Heavenly Father, That same reverence and praise extends to our Savior, who is the Son of God. They and the Holy Ghost are one eternal Godhead. They are individual beings. Also the reference in Isiah isn't a lesson on the Godhead. It is God speaking to a rebellious Israel with their idols and such.

[@charlesbrown1245]

Jesus is a member of the Godhead and the Godhead is a trinity of Beings. But Jesus isn't some invisible force stuck to some other invisible force. There is no math where 3 equals 1 except in false theology. Philosopher/ theologians in the centuries after Christ and his apostles were killed convinced each other that this false equation was the case. They then established a precedent that any that didn't believe it would be heretics. It could be the grandest con scheme in the earths history. They enforced it by death to violators. It was called the Inquisition for Catholics and Protestants did something similar. www.christiantoday.com/article/the-dark-side-of-the-reformation-john-calvin-and-the-burning-of-heretics/117136.htm

[@nemoexnuqual3643]

@@charlesbrown1245 I’m not talking about the Godhead that is three persons but one God. That part is correct. Who are “The Godmakers?” According to the LDD FAQ page Mormons believe that people can also one day ascend to being gods. That is 1, 2, 3, 4….hmm more than one. That is polytheistic. Isaiah 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” So when Isaiah wrote “nor shall there be any after me.” Where does that leave LDS except for polytheistic belief in the “little gods” heresy?

[@nemoexnuqual3643]

@@charlesbrown1245 Isaiha 9:6 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon[a] his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Jude 1:5 “Jesus saved the people out of Egypt.” Jesus said multiple times “I and the Father are one.” The Trinity is 3 persons, one God and we see all three manifest in Matthew’s account of the baptism of Christ.

[@laurol4342]

No, you cannot be Christian and go against Jesus' teachings. Mormons believe that people are saved by obedience to the law.That is not what Jesus taught. They also believe in baptism for the dead and polygamy or plural marriage.

[@charlesbrown1245]

Actually Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe we are saved through the grace of Jesus Christ. Obeying God's laws is something that he commands us to do. by doing so we avoid the negative consequences of not obeying them. Listen to this message and you might understand see. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a37bfapva6ieiposi=Zs4cwQu65Xq9ZJgP

[@redfightblue]

LDS do not worship Christ as the only God in the universe. This is a core principle of Christianity and therefore a deal breaker for 99% of Christians. Your testimony may be true and your religious views may be true, that doesn't make them Christian. The differences between Christianity and Mormonism are VAST and you hardly scratched the surface in this video. In fact, Bruce R. McConkie once said in a speech at BYU "we do not worship Christ". This comment, even the suggestion of this comment, blows the doors off the debate and raises serious questions that have not, and cannot be overcome. In my view, as a member for over 4 decades, Mormonism is not the same as Christianity. If Christ was removed from the doctrine the religion would remain nearly in tact. Actually, Christ is nearly removed from the temple endowment and the religion continues. This is because the religion is more about Eternal Progression than it is anything to do with Christ. Eternal Progression is an eternal principle that states men are meant to learn and grow and this principle was around for an eternity before Christ. This is what is taught in the endowment, not Christ, not the Nativity, not the Passion, not the Crucifixion, not the Ascension and not Resurrection of Christ. The scriptures are clear that you should worship ONE God. Yet Mormonism has 2, or 3 or even 4 Gods that are sometimes worshipped. Mormonism is polytheistic and no one can answer the question of which ONE God I should worship. The most honest answer is "Elohim, The Father, ONLY". This answer makes it perfectly clear that Mormonism is not Christianity. I am no longer active in the LDS Church and this is the take-away I have that I base my religious views on. I worship Elohim and not Christ. I believe I was taught this in the LDS Church. In the Church they say, "We believe in Christ" and "Christ is our redeemer". These things are good and may be true but they are different then worshipping Christ as the ONLY God in the universe. In general, the LDS heart is with Elohim, the Father, they do not worship Christ the way Christians do.

[@charlesbrown1245]

Whose Christianity is this a core principle of. Do you not believe in God the Father? That is who Jesus taught us to worship. You really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to who we worship or apparently Christianity in general. As Latter-day members of Christ's church we worship our Eternal Father who is the God of truth in the name of Jesus Christ. He is the only God we know and he sent his Son to be our Savior and Redeemer. The differences you say are "VAST" are simple. You do not believe that Jesus is God's Son except as a metaphor. All the other doctrines embraced by Protestants are just Catholic doctrines. They are all opinions of scholars not God's appointed servants.

[@redfightblue]

@@charlesbrown1245 Thanks for you response. As I said, I believe 99% of Christians would agree with the statement "Christ is the only God in the universe". 99% of LDS would NOT agree. Most of what you said (and asked) I already answered and I agreed with. I said very clearly that I believe in (and worship) God the Father. I call Him Elohim as He is called in the temple. I also explained that I took Bruce R. McConkies advice and I do NOT worship Christ. I only worship Elohim. I also believe this places me too far outside mainstream Christianity to go around calling myself a Christian. The question is not whether Christ worshipped the Father. The question is how do Christians interpret this. If you interpret it the same, maybe you're a Christian too. If your interpretation it vastly different, maybe your not a Christian. Christians do not believe Christ was worshiping a MAN when he worshipped God the Father. This is a major difference. I hope that helps explain my position. You are welcome to disagree and worship whomever and however you choose.

[@charlesbrown1245]

Actually as Latter-day Saints we worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. Here is the official statement from the church website in the link below. Elder McConkie was making a point in the talk you are referring to. You apparently were looking so hard for an out that you failed to see it. Jesus also worshipped God his Father. Christ is not the "ONLY" God in the Universe. faq.churchofjesuschrist.org/who-do-mormons-worship. Eternal progression is Christ's purpose in offering himself as a sacrifice to redeem us and atone for our sins. LDS teach of an infinite atonement. The rest of Christianity teaches that the atonement is finite. Would you prefer to be single, celibate and live as a static being in the Protestant realm of heaven. You really know nothing about the temple endowment. Its whole focus is on Christ. I guess you missed that too. I do feel for you missing the whole point and beauty of the truths restored in the church through the prophets. Jesus is the Son of God, a member of the eternal Godhead. He submitted his will to the Father in all thngs and was endowed by the Father to preside over creation and judgement. We lived with him before we came to earth. His love for us exceeds all things.

[@redfightblue]

@@charlesbrown1245 I know more about the temple than you do. If you think it's all about Jesus Christ then YOU are the one that has completely missed the point, or your misleading your audience because you're afraid to publicly admit the truth. This is the original purpose for the secrecy of the temple. So you can lie about it and not be called out. So you can go in there and do non-Christian rites and rituals while still claiming publicly that you are a Christian and everything you do in there is Christian. Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism are the exact same. That line wont work with me. I know the truth. You should tuck your tail between your legs and move on to your next victim. That comment was a lie and you know it. Jesus is shown as the co-creator of Earth and subordinate to Elohim. He doesn't even teach Adam, the apostles do. Do they teach Adam Christianity? No. The apostles do not teach Adam about Christ. Adam does not pray to the Father in the Name of Christ. Adam is NOT taught about Christ, His Birth, Passion, Crucifixion, Ascension and Resurrection. Apparently Adam dies with no knowledge of Christ and so will you. How do you know THIS isn't the true purpose of the Temple? To teach us the true purpose of Christ which does NOT include the Traditional Christian teachings of Christ, and the Crucifixion etc.? What if I told you I worship Zues. And Zues has a son named Jesus Christ that died for the sins of the word. I worship Zues and his son Jesus Christ. Would that make me a Christian? Mormonism is the exact same. You worship a god that is not Jesus Christ and you still think you're a Christian? It doesn't matter what you call him. When I was active LDS I worshipped 4 gods, not just 2 like you claim. Who's fault is that? Mine? My Bishop? My Seminary teacher? I understand the point McConkie was making. I understand it more than you. I don't have to try and explain it away like you do. I understand YOU believe there is more than ONE god in the Universe. This is what separates you from Christianity. I understand YOU don't see it this way but the rest of Christianity does see it this way. Christians do NOT believe God the Father is a man with a penis. They believe CHRIST IS GOD THE FATHER and no one else. You worship a god that is NOT Christ. That makes you NOT a Christian according to the common definition set by Christians. I understand you interpret it differently and want to include your non-Christian religion under the same umbrella. I get it.