How I Learned To Love Overwatch Again

While everyone else seems angry and upset about the state of Overwatch 2, I've come to a realisation about how to enjoy it. Treat OW2 for it for what it is: A fun, casual experience.
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[@neostar7206]

Summary: Playing the meta can be fun, but having fun needs to be the meta.

[@TheWorldTurntle]

Wish all the try hards running Orisa and pocketed Sojourn in QP understood this.

[@diogodinis39]

you dropped this 👑

[@hermos3602]

But what if I don't want to play Competitive?

[@hiyasuamv9776]

Lel me and my buddy play kiriko genji and live in the backline 💀 stomach hurts from all the laughing

[@davidsabillon5182]

I love this too much

[@BurntoOblivion]

Basically all true. It just hurts because this game can be so much better than the devs allow. But if you’re just a casual gamer it’s a great game.

[@TheWorldTurntle]

I see Orisa swaps in almost every single QP game I play with my casual friends. QP feels more like comp these days all the casuals must stay in the arcade modes

[@AzureShrike]

@@TheWorldTurntle If they lose one teamfight in team deathmatch i swear they go hog, orisa every single time lol

[@TheWorldTurntle]

@@AzureShrike I guess I’ll have to play roulette on mystery heroes if I ever want to have fun on Ball

[@samhhhhh]

@@TheWorldTurntle This is exactly why they need to balance the game for its competitive mode. If more heroes are viable and there isn't some 'pick this and win' hero or comp, people won't do it on the casual mode QP. Without competitive balance, casual play can't be fun either.

[@phil1500]

@@TheWorldTurntle play low gravity, he hard carries there :)

[@DoubleL11862]

I've been playing OW2 with coworkers over lunch and most of them haven't played it or OW1. It's been a real learning curve for them with a bunch of characters and abilities to learn but they've really been enjoying themselves. I however have to sweat and flex onto my off roles so we don't get completely stomped.

[@Michael-pn4xu]

I think a big problem when it comes to ow is that any active online discussions (like group up or on twitter) are with the same 20-50 people. It makes us think that we are the majority, but in reality, our opinions are probably less than 1% of the player base.

[@juanperret7044]

i don't like playing comp sometimes because the toxicity is insane, people get so turnt over me sometimes sucking at the game and it's like damn son you think I'm trying to throw? I'm just doing my best lmao. I kinda wanna tell them that if they don't want the randomness of sometimes getting a not as good teammate they should make 4 other friends who wanna play all the time

[@micah4539]

@@juanperret7044urn off team and match chat. Best decision I’ve ever made

[@ZarelidT]

It’s casual because of quick play being unplayable. Before role que OW1 quick play was unplayable and never want back for years. Even after role que the ability to not get attack AND defend just steers me and most players to just play comp. Makes total sense but no one will admit it

[@iyxon]

I had the same realization yesterday, I had written this: "Overwatch is a disaster but it's the only game with Hana Song and Brigitte Lindholm, so... But really, no matter how much of a mess it is, ultimately, I'm just a casual player, it doesn't matter how borked the management is because I'll still grind the season 3 pass, grind ranked when I'm in the mood, occasionally play with friends, and buy the skins I like. I can't hold ill will when I'm not that invested. It's just a game."

[@pattongilbert]

Me too. Playing Overwatch casually is the best. :)

[@StorminNormin411]

this is 100% true but unfortunately the exact reason I dont play anymore. I loved playing with my team in a competitive setting. It felt so cool to have a team that could mirror the pro teams I watched. But now its just quick play all day, which means its "only for fun" but frankly, halo and COD are just more "fun"

[@m1rac1e]

Valorant scratches the itch. Pretty much every comp game even in lower ranks(gold/plat), people are receptive to comms & tryharding/strategy. only gets better the higher rank you go

[@snnowmann]

There's a term in the fighting game community called "kusoge" which roughly translates to "sh*t game" in japanese. Doesn't mean the game is bad but it has elements of things that feel cheap or overpowered, these games can still be competitive but the elements of kusoge give it personality and create a lot of silly and fun moments. I believe Overwatch would be at its best if this was embraced. Junkrat is a good example of kusoge and why I love him in the game so much, I can't even be mad dying to him because it's just too ridiculous.

[@KTSamurai1]

i cant think of a more damning thing to say about a (former) competitive game, to not treat it like one anymore it's nice that you can still extract joy from overwatch 2 or hearthstone but it sucks that the shift happened under such sneaky circumstances

[@angryspearmen3614]

As a casual player I... uninstalled ow2 in december. Reason -- deleted group finder. I was in love with ow1. It was so easy to go in, find good company and enjoy colorful games. I made a few friends, meet a lot of people, learned a lot from them. Also the most fun I got from playing PvE with people. So my hopes in ow2 PvE was high. It's really weird from my perspective that nobody talks about it.

[@PKzenn]

i used the group finder semi often. I havent duo qued or more once in OW2 because its gone. Mind boggling why they removed so many features

[@gdzpseudi]

Same here, I used that feature a lot and really liked it. Met nice people, had nice discussions.

[@dr.bandito60]

It truly was madness to delete Group Finder. My theory is that it caused them some legal liability issues. What if an extremist group is finds each other through OW?…stuff like that.

[@Chaz-Support]

As someone who has always played a mixture of competitive and quickplay I loved being able to satisfy my competitive urges in comp and then going and having fun in quickplay but now the comp experience is so awful that I have no desire to play it but then I get frustrated in quickplay being so casual. So much is missing that they lied saying we would have e.g. tournament mode or clan systems, I feel like I’m just waiting for something that’s never coming, a half finished game that somehow keeps making the same mistakes they e already made. My competitive urge won’t just fade away I need somewhere to put that and I don’t enjoy other competitive shooters so ow just has me feeling so unfulfilled. I’m sure the pve will be great and I’m hyped but I just can’t forgive the development team for the lies and the way they have destroyed the game it’s a disgrace to the original devs that created it

[@Wolff112]

i agree, ow2 is nothing comapred to ow and just a disgrace, but at the same time its fun as a casual game. if u want competitive, give valorant a try. i usually play 2-3 valorant matches and then 2 ow2 games.

[@srtnnrnn7405]

Fascinating video as usual SVB. You consistently bring a level of nuance to these discussions that I think is invaluable. The Hearthstone comparison is really interesting to me. As an HS player since Naxx and someone who still grinds nearly every month to legend, and sometimes decently high legend, I think the analogy to OW is apt in some ways but not in others. A bit of further context: I am brand new to OW; didn't play the first game and picked up OW2 on release. I am not new to shooters, both casual and competitive, in general though. I picked up the game primarily at the prospect of a complex, competitive experience that I could sink time into and improve at, so that competitive aspect is what I want and what I expected out of the game. So take however many grains of salt you think are appropriate for that background. I think a few points you raise are pretty much incontrovertible in my opinion: 1) Blizzard has elected essentially across the board to prioritize mass appeal over a mega-streamlined and focused competitive experience, and therefore the fate of HS esports may indeed signal a similar turn with respect to OWL; 2) OW2 is not competitive *in the same way* as CS or Valorant. Fine starting points here, but I think the argument starts to break down a bit after these for me. So re. HS as a competitive game, don’t get me wrong I completely understand the “HS competitive? Lol rng” perspective, and HS absolutely has more of those elements than a game like MTG for example. At the same time, I feel like we create a false dichotomy when we say that either a game is ideally balanced such that the player with the greater skill wins 100% of the time (I think the concept of ideal balance is sort of a myth personally, but that’s a larger can of worms) or the game is a complete clownfiesta casual-only mess. I feel like there is a lot of space between these two things that the way you’re talking in this video kind of obscures. There is a reason that despite the rng in a game like HS, you see the exact same fistful of people at the very top of legend every month, making deep runs in the competitive circuit (when that was still a thing lol), and so on. Put the same deck in a high level player’s hands and a casual play-on-the-bus type player's hands and the high level player will win most of the time, despite rng, because of a host of reasons that involve skill, like hand reading, strategic risk management of rng-dependent components, and on and on. And this is similar in OW I think. Did I die to “junkrat spam” or was the player able to predict my movements, know their angles, blah blah blah? The point I’m trying to draw out is that I think it’s a bad philosophy on what “counts” as a competitive game to say that if the game isn’t functionally chess then it’s disqualified and might as well be roulette. Now maybe the doomer take is correct in the case of OW, and Blizzard is going out of their way to balance for that 50% winrate for everyone, but I personally haven’t seen enough evidence that that’s the case, and I’m not sure it would be possible even if they wanted that. I could ramble some more but yea those are some thoughts.

[@defenestrate7544]

The only thing that's kept me playing the game for 6 years is the hero diversity. You touched on it, if you're bored with a role/character, try a new one. The diversity in playstyles has always been what this game does better than any other.

[@RingtailGaming55]

Exactly why I pushed back against the 5v5 change and the free to play element being added. It was the exact changes needed to make the game as casual as possible, and now the players who took the game seriously pay the price. I'll never forget all the great times I had in OW1, but OW2 will just never be the game for me. I hate being left behind, but I'm used to it.

[@VolkmasterBlood]

During the first part of the pandemic I played with another dude who was plat ranked everything. He helped me get to gold tank and we played every single night together. I played 2-3 hours a night for approximately 5 nights a week for 6 months. OW1 had enough in it to sustain us between matches. But OW2? Provides none of that. You grind, you play, you MAYBE unlock, and then you repeat. I feel you entirely.

[@Shzl47]

Me and my friends main Apex (the game we take seriously and grind rank in). We hop into Overwatch once a week and ALWAYS have a good time. It's so much fun with wacky hero abilities and great team-play and is always a great break from the Apex grind... It also helps that I'm not new to Overwatch, but they are, so seeing them discover things for the 1st time is always a joy.

[@wayfer7243]

This take isn't wrong but I will say you can have a game that is both casual/competitive like Smash Melee or Dragon Ball Fighterz. Both are easy to pick up and have fun with your friends but if you take time to learn the games they feel different. Neither type of game is bad but with OW there's a decent sized audience for both.

[@GraphiteBlimp27]

Wish they’d just release an OW1 patch to emulate the best parts of Oct 2020 and peak 2017 dive eras. I’d just only play that and never look twice at an event, skin, PVE, or 5v5. I have tried to love OW2 and there are cool things about it but I am still left feeling they were so stupid to shift gears to OW2 which was completely unnecessary. The alternative timeline in which that didn’t happen would have been the greatest last 6 years. Instead they just continually hamstring that version of the game and do everything to circumvent it and make the game the most whacky surface level experience. It’s just depressing because I remember when OWL first launched how much buzz there was, and how it seemed like the future of competitive gaming. What a sad end. It’s crazy how by just removing OW1, I just don’t care really. I would think I’d be sad but it’s just numb. I find myself playing less and less, and I have more time for things I can actually control instead of being at the mercy of perpetually clueless devs.

[@benhorachek458]

Not sure if you're intentionally be hyperbolic but OWL teams aren't suing, they are starting a collective bargaining process. Also Chinese OWL teams are not disbanding. There is no information but current rumours are that they will play out of Korea. It's sad to see you bash OWL so frequently when the actual product itself is so enjoyable with many hard working people involved and the greatest display of talent in the world. You can dislike the corporate soulless beginnings it had, but much like you describe in this video, if you take it for the product it is and has become then it is truly a great thing to enjoy.

[@mossup-]

The problem is even the casuals are not playing it, with ow1 there was often 20 - 30 people on my friends list playing at any one time, when ow2 released in October, there was almost 70 playing, now for days on end no one plays, sometimes 2 or 3 might play. When I played with friends we all got bored very quickly of ow2, the other day I loaded it up played 1 game at 160ms ping from UK to West US just to see if that would stop me from being bored of it but I ended up on A push map, so instead of trying to win I just practiced my aim, we lost that game. Its just not A good game in its current state. Love you SVB my dude ♥

[@Warlockhound]

I don't think OW2 can compete with BR games for the casual odience, at its core the game is still about winning and has no rng wich casual players don't like.

[@TableTopic]

I'm casual and this game will always be my favorite. Just play a new hero whenever you feel like it, do your best, don't stress the losses and you'll have a blast

[@LesStewartLPS]

My strange love of Overwatch 2 Unranked or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

[@BAIARJ]

Wholesome video. I’m a casual. Because of my job and responsabilities I can’t play more than 2h a day. It’s been fun playing this with friends on a weekend and after work without thinking too much about grinding it

[@NightBlade117]

Lol rewatching this video after the PvE murder announcement is definitely much needed

[@lypreila7913]

Dr. SVB or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love Overwatch 2.

[@vvnn3948]

This vid towards the end didn’t age well. Pve cancelled 💀

[@Deltaclaw]

I'm glad you've realized this and hope more people will see that the game is best when not taken so seriously

[@hermos3602]

I literally can't play at the moment because of my bad connection.

[@nufcjoker9057]

Why play with a different mindset when you can just play a different game ? Sound crazy doesn’t it

[@burni988]

@@nufcjoker9057 that's why I mainly just play valorant now and occasionally play OW as a change of pace for fun cause the core gameplay is decent. But I wanted a competitive game to grind and I realise OW is not offering that experience.

[@Kaltar_]

If you have to teach yourself to love a game it's a very bad sign for that game

[@joecross5335]

Makes sense. I’ve been having fun this whole time. I’ve probably let toxic opinions of top tiers bother me too much. It is a fun game. Thanks, man.

[@fullmetalf4i]

in OW1 I did the ranked grind on console. Moved to PC. Did the grind there, joined an organized team, wound up taking over running the team and it burned me out hard core to the point that I just quit playing OW. If i wanted a shooter, I'd play apex. Most of my gaming time was being devoted to the new to me world of simracing. Then OW2 had their betas and it was a blast! Then I realized why it was a blast. There was no competitive. No rank to worry about or grind for. It was pick whatever hero I wanted to have fun on, and just playing the game. When my console friends asked about the beta i told them it was great the first week. Everyone was happy with the new shiny thing. Everyone said "GGs" after the game or laughed at something funny that happened. The second week you saw the divergence of people who found the meta and probably 1 in every 5 or 6 matches you'd get someone tilted on your team of the enemy team about someone not making an optimal pick or taking an optimal position. When the game launched with competitive those super serious people went to competitive and left quick play for us just to have fun with. The game has been a freaking blast. Yeah occasionally you get the sojourn right clicking everyone in a 3 mile radius, but the majority of the time, people are just out there having fun with whatever.

[@Absnerdity]

I'm casual af. I'm Silver for crying out loud. I don't even play in comp mode. In OW1, I was a Mystery Heroes junkie. The game isn't fun anymore. Balance still matters even in casual games, when you're constantly obliterated by the OP characters. It sucks when I'm Silver and get put into QP games against Diamonds or higher and get completely suppressed by their much higher skilled Widowmaker. I can't play just a few games here or there, get a few lootboxes, some cosmetics from them and come back in a day or two. No, I have to grind the season so I can get enough levels to finish the battlepass. If I don't, I'll never have another chance at those cosmetics. I love the game, but I can't play it anymore. It is not fun.

[@PKzenn]

I played hearthstone and OW for a long time, Some months ago i made the same comparison. I stopped playing hearthstone and now play runeterra. I still play OW 2 but it seems to wear out its welcome quicker each time i play. Great video man.

[@cal7447]

I appreciate this mentality. But ever since PvE was announced, I always assumed kind of the opposite result. I thought that PRECISELY bc the devs are supposed to make the most money, invest the most time and attract the most audience through PvE, this would mean a small dedicated team of devs could finally focus on shaping PvP for a small hardcore audience, the competitive grinders. I thought PvP balancing could finally stop needing to worry about casual players bc whatever complaint they have would be easily forgivable/forgettable once they hop back into PvE with friends, shooting at robots with crazy skill tree abilities. I thought the introduction of PvE would mean we get the best of both worlds, and that was gonna be how Blizzard "redefine a sequal". The devs can listen to hero experts, balance for high rank players, and when I invite my WOW friends to try OW again, I don't have to explain why "we push into enemy spawn after capturing objective instead of all standing on the payload"; bc instead we're immersing ourselves in an exciting story campaign. Once they log off, I hop back into ranked, or invite a couple of them who are competitively-minded who are now familiar with the 50 heroes in the game bc they've played these characters in 10 different low stress missions. Content creators can hard grind competitive for hours and chill in a "rapid skill tree building arcade mode" to prevent burn out. Tiktokers can stop pretending they know about how to use a cool down, and can make sexiest omnic boss tier list with their impressionable audience instead. Patches won't be released before every OWL playoff to "shake things up" bc every player and their aunt are already plenty entertained. OWL grand finals are advertised in the background of every cut scene… Etc, etc. Was I crazy in thinking that way?? It felt like the truth. But maybe it doesn't scientifically work like that even in the best case scenarios, not to mention my version of the prospect now looks more and more unlikely even to myself, because team4 seem to be having a tough time building a PvE content pool that's substantial and robust enough (and which allegedly needs to be drip-fed to us over a looong time), meaning casual players can't just sit in PvE and still need to sink the majority of their time in PvP. My dream scenario of competitive integrity and casual fun co-existing seems to be slipping away. But what if it DOES happen? It's extreme hopium, but I still want to dream.

[@jaxonumberger3179]

I definitely agree with everything that he said here. I've been playing this game since launch, and have experienced it's growth and changes as they've happened. I played quick play religiously until about 2018-2021 where I became bored of the game and took a huge break. After overwatch 2 came out, I found myself playing competitive way more, and getting into the game a lot more. After some self reflection, however, I've found that my fondest memories of this game are when I was messing around in quick play having fun with friends, not sweating my ass off in toxic, unbalanced comp games.

[@hexia6760]

I've been trying go 'accept' this truth for many years now, all the way back to the OW1 days, but it's hard, very hard. I also feel that it's much harder when you usually play at Masters+ level, since this typically is the place where the Meta is enforced almost every match. But I'm glad.. from time to time, I take a break from the game which lasts from weeks, even up to a year+ back in OW1. This is a casual game, yes. Old players are not the target audience. They wan't the zoomers to join their game, and take their money. It is what it is, better to just accept this fact.

[@RedBeard-qw4hc]

It feels like people who play PVP games have forgotten what games are meant for. OW's gameplay and mechanics are amazing, not replicated to this day, and the game is worth playing for that alone imo. Ranked is not fun, because every rank has its meta, and it's always gonna be something overpowered and boring to play against, that's how metas work. So just play QP, enjoy the game for its actual gameplay, play different heros, they're all fun to play, just not fun to play against.

[@rodrigodastremanzanares9997]

unfortunately, u are right, I could consider playing other games, but the fact is I love this game, nowadays QP is just a way better experience than comp, and as a Borderlands fan, I believe the PVE will be a blast

[@Helpfulchase]

Even as a casual gamer when I play competitive I play to win which means switching characters if your getting hard countered or maybe stop doing the same thing or taking the same position you keep getting killed in preflight…. This game is just not fun anymore people play less around roles. DPS Que healer and go no heals half the time just feels so trashy. At least before if you had a healer like that but you had 2 tanks you could still avoid taking damage on the push. It’s to much like COD run and gun no mindful plays happening anymore like the amount of people that even know all their characters and what they do is depressing. This game used to take skill and knowledge and now people play with neither. They ruined overwatch for me. Specially taking doom and changing everything for the worse. Mean while widow and Hanzo can one shot you from across the map but people complained about doom when he actually had to set up his one shot ability by surprise or timing of engagement. F this game and the shitty changes.

[@pedroariel2204]

Look I get it, but hearthstone is by nature a casual game, taking card games seriously for me has always been kinda silly, I just get on to play some Murloc aggro while I’m at the toilet . Games like ow, StarCraft, valorant and a classic like smash are games that CAN be very competitive and taken seriously . What I agree sm in this video is that blizz took the decision to not do this and this made me stop playing it like I was, I honestly think this video is sad , overwatch will make more money like this, but will lose a very big part of the identity of the game in the process, anyway back to StarCraft 2 ig

[@garrettlison4992]

I was generally having a good time in OW2 but I still uninstalled. Everything about the game speaks to me in one way or another, but getting dumped on by the matchmaker feels miserable. I chose to go back to fighting games because they are way easier to learn and experiment in. There's no real way to learn Overwatch outside of just playing a ton with no in-game tools to get into the meat of it all. I can load up Guilty Gear, hop into training mode and just try stuff out and feel like I got somewhere without needing to interact with anyone else. I could play Overwatch for hours and feel like I just wasted my time, no matter how the session went because I'm not learning the game, just how to win at my rank. Maybe I'll load it back up another day, but for now I'm just gonna hit some buttons and have fun.

[@Raichu159]

this isnt a casual game its full of tryhards. i have easier matches in ranked than i have in qp i encounter so many players who counter pick all match its boring af. i dont know when ill love this game again but its probably not anytime soon

[@CharlesStanleyArt]

Fascinating that you've come to this conclusion as I have also come to the same. Trying hard in this game isn't sustainable, it's like Overwatch wants to serve two masters but the try hard mentality serms to be a very, very small minority within the player base. Once i just played to chill and do my daily and weekly achievements my enjoyment of the game improved and my tilt went WAY down.

[@hermos3602]

I tend to avoid online discussions about Overwatch especially on reddit because people only talk about Competitive and trash on Quick Play and casual players. A lot of tge say people take QP seriously while at the same time taking Comp way too seriously.

[@nevs_h2002]

i just wont accept "ow is not supposed to be competetive" the first few years ow had a very good comp scene they just fucked it up and everyone should push to bring it back to that. Just let owl die and make something new something better. The Pve can be for casuals but the pvp should be competetive.

[@s2g234]

I think I am in the middle population of players that gets overlooked completely. I am competitive and love playing to win, but play only quickplay - haven't touched competitive since maybe season 20 of OW1 (too toxic, too much grind). I just like trying to find ways to flex and synergies with whatever my team plays while still playing hard to win. I enjoy implementing the mantra of "work smarter, not harder" and exercising my game sense while not asking for anyone to switch off their picks. I am active in shot calling and identifying the win conditions and trying to get the team to work together even if it's QP. I actually never understood the perspective of a casual player (the way you have described) until this video!

[@gdzpseudi]

Same here, don't have time or will to grind comp, but still enjoy working my gamesense and understanding what's going on around me to optimize my plays. I've seen the improvements during the years, going from running straight to main to now being able to track resources and ults, understanding my positioning, when and how is my team throwing and what can I do to make the best out of it ! Still a long path to go though.

[@dr.bandito60]

I play like this too. I usually do my placements in comp but that’s it. I’m a quickplay tryhard.

[@KobeLoverTatum]

if you ever talk to anyone at overwatch again please ask them about the stay as a team function only lasting a few seconds and it get interrupted by POTG, and also the removal of the team finder from OW1 and what they plan to do to replace that?

[@senor135]

frankly, i think the enjoyment / mental health issue is 95% perspective. laying it on the game is copium to begin with. one cannot blame chess for one's mental, either.

[@ramondelosmonteros5261]

Agreed, the only part I think this video could do better on is acknowledge some of the games that came before overwatch that helped establish the hero shooter genre. (We see you tf2)

[@senor135]

they're not suing blizzard, they're essentially unionizing in order to negotiate with blizzard as a collective. that headline is inaccurate. just read to the second paragraph even.

[@screamat333am7]

Yeah they added no insensitives to play ranked. Ranked is now quick play without people leaving the game every 2 min.

[@Qwmp-]

I understand this sentiment and it is a good way to keep ones expectations and mental health in check. That being said it is hard to shake the sense of utter betrayal from the devs toward the OG players that stuck most fervently to their game. A person's relationship to their favorite game can be an intimate one, where huge portions of time and, in a sense, money and resources through opportunity cost are dedicated to the mastery of said game. The decision to pivot towards a casual battle pass model and reactive, lackluster balancing is like watching a project you've been closely invested in for years crumble before you. Accepting the game as casual and abandoning our hopes for active balance is simultaneously good for setting realistic expectations, and a sad new reality.

[@phil1500]

I think we have to accept that we aren't entitled to anything just because we played the game longer. The casuals and whales of overwatch 2 have probably paid more for the game than I have in over 6 years. That being said I think people are just overreacting at this point. It sounds like just an excuse to say the game is in early access, I know, but when you consider a good portion of the dev team has been working on fixing broken systems, even broken patching systems the past three months, and at least half of them are probably dedicated to getting pve to start rolling out, I'd still think there will be time for things to shift in the next year or so toward something that can be both competitive and fun. This team has always made terrible balancing decisions, when it was good was when they reacted fast. You limit the team itself to code and test these fixes, then limit the working tools they have to do it, and then decide to pool the systems so bigger patches need nonsense console approval and you get this shitstorm we live in. Idk early access seems like a cop out because so many developers have cheated the system, but I've seen a lot of them use it correctly too. I'm interested to see when we hit their vision of the game and it releases proper, I think that will be a deciding moment. For now, yeah the balancing sucks, but I think of it as a hand out so we weren't still stuck in ow1's hellscape of no content.

[@zero13z34]

Betrayal ? I mean no offense but you need a break from games and to touch some grass man. Its just a game, I know it can be addicting or something like that but it is still just a game. If you're not having fun just stop, seriously

[@Lepstick_-]

aged like fine wine

[@toloniinolot7606]

I personally disagree but this is definitely a point of view i never considered. Great vid as always!

[@BrofUJu]

I'm really trying not tilt. I had a game last night where we had an awful DPS and we pushed nearly to the end of Route 66. I was so annoyed. I looked at the other team.... and their team had an even worse DPS. We full held them on point A and won easily. Was a good wakeup call where I was like... okay I just need to relax lol

[@gdzpseudi]

Main issue is I had so many games where you can clearly see that teams are obviously unbalanced, and you have that one or two players in your team definitely not at the same level as the others ! Either a big MTD, one DPS with almost no kill or a support that doesn't position correctly and keeps dying ! It's so frustrating, and it keeps happening again and again !

[@shanonfrancis5071]

It just struck me that it could really be true that when the pve drops the competitive side (as we know it) might be gone.

[@phil1500]

could go the other way too, it depends exactly what the pve ends up looking like, if it pulls enough audience over, the pvp might focus more on being more competitive long term, we don't really know yet

[@GaussianEntity]

Eh I think only the people who want the competitive feel will stay and won't get all toxic when things don't happen the way they like, much like towards the end of OW1. I think comp is glorified QP that people hype up a lot but the truth of the matter is that most people aren't actually competitive. They want to win but they don't want to suffer the pain of losses. This is even if the game had amazing balance. Add to the fact that this game makes it easy to blame others and not yourself and you have yourself a whole recipe for disaster.

[@leonardolelacher8383]

Please let us know your thoughts on the PVE that’s coming soon.

[@FDE4L]

I haven’t started watching this yet, but want to turn around!!! I’ve enjoyed all of ow2 so far

[@DoubleEm08]

I definitely agree with shifting your perspective. My only caveat would be around that the game has certain elements that are not fun to play against. One shots and team balance are out of your control. It's hard to have fun when your DPS is Junkrat/Bastion trying to fight against a Sojourn Widow at range, you know? I don't mind OW being more casual, but I do think more interplay and empowerment at the individual level would help that direction and also help balance. Less hard counters, more interaction.

[@Enderstellar]

With the announcement of no more pve, this aged pretty bad

[@Sadzilla]

I think the reason it just isn’t and won’t ever be the competitive game everyone wants it to be is it’s just too complicated. You can’t properly balance a game like this, you just can’t and most importantly you can’t make everyone happy by trying to balance and make changes. Someone is always gonna get the shit end. Something like LoL can still be competitive with so many characters because there is no aiming type mechanic. Once you have that on top of so many abilities and player types it’s just ridiculously too conplicated

[@Mah-LonCreativity]

I don't play OW. I'm just here to listen to SVB talk.

[@bobbycorwen2827]

winton

[@txc_shika1412]

Yes

[@DoubleL11862]

Yes

[@Noctrimlol]

Total SVB W here, absolutely correct. However one thing I want to comment on is how I think there’s a large contradiction in the audience argument. Basically you’re saying most of the people playing OW are having a blast at a couple games a week, this I totally think is true. But then we’re also talking about people flocking to the next game. The casual players are not the same players that are flocking between games right? The players that leave to other games are definitely playing more than a couple games and probably invested in game news to even know the new flavor of the month. It just seems like such a weird strategy when you think about it like that

[@gdzpseudi]

Actually that's why the whole talk about having new content on a regular basis is important. To make casuals come back again and again, to always be on the news and on their mind.

[@Noctrimlol]

@@gdzpseudi no the whole point in the video is that we are complaining about patch speed etc but the casual players do not even notice the constant changes to Soj so they are changing too much for casuals but not even for hardcore players? That doesn’t make sense either

[@gdzpseudi]

​@@Noctrimlol I'm talking about content, not patches ! Like new events, new season skins. Your last comment seems to talk about nerfs and buffs, which something solely directed toward the hardcore base, and clearly not the priority in the overall business vision of the game. Priority and strategy is quite easy actually : Blizz wants people to pay, mostly casuals coming back from time to time to consume new content, and find somehting interesting in the shop. Make them come back by having regular new content here and there. That's it ! The whole comp thing comes only after that, and the effort are sized to a minimum, don't care if people are unhappy as long as they don't leave. It's a resource assignement tradeoff.

[@johnperez1723]

How I learned to hate overwatch, pve cancelled

[@Sadzilla]

Thank you for stating the truth. Flats said it first but I appreciate a real dive into the subject

[@YourOverwatch]

CLASH OF CLANS has tournaments tho! 😮‍💨

[@Joe_Payne]

If only we had that. Imo tournaments are more fun than ladder because they are less punishing with losses. On ladder you have to gain your sr back. But for tournaments you just say gg go next.

[@broad_cat]

As soon as I saw this vid, I had to scan for Your OW comment. Quick Play warriors unite. Also, tournaments are so much fun, both League's Clash system and the weekend tournies Jayne used to run were some of the most fun I've had in the game. There's no chasing numbers, just trying to solve a puzzle with friends and using the tools you all brought to the table. Integrating them a la League's Clash system would go a long way.

[@spankyhunter]

Its funny, when i started playing there was no competitive mode, there was only quick play. It was the players screaming for a comp mode. Imagine if comp never made it into the game. If i could get golden guns without playing comp, I'd never touch it ever again

[@banjoxan]

Am glad someone said it already. Overwatch in general is NOT a competitive game, I used to be passionate about the pro ladder and OWL back in 2018-2019 but it lead me to a toxic environment where I could be doing something else with my life. Now I can enjoy the game as a casual because I don’t feel frustrated about picking the right character or comp

[@kylersears]

Hearing about the pve now is funny

[@LockDieselBeats]

I agree but Ranked modes shouldn’t be casual, you should be matched based on sr. And I just can’t see overwatch pve competing with something like destiny.

[@thedofflin]

I got into this game as a casual who couldn't aim for shit. Over time I got good and became more competitive, and ever since I started scrimming and following content creators I've been very up to date with high tier meta and balance concerns - too up to date... I'm trying to tap into that mode I was in as a casual gamer when I started the game, mostly by playing quickplay and picking my least played heroes, which works quite well. But it is frustrating when you understand so much about the game, like fuck they picked Sojourn and Hog in quickplay, what losers. Or we lost that game/fight because of X teammate. Or I made a big mistake and my teammates are going to flame me for it... When you're no longer ignorant about things it can be really hard to chill out and just play your own game, to fuck around and experiment, and to think you just got unlucky when really you know what you or your teammates could be doing better. I just need a mental strategy I can use to become fully casual.

[@jemandhd1337]

Overwatch destroyed my mental health

[@SuperPhoneDialer]

I just MISS the time when we where heading in the direction of metas, bc metas can be fun as long as they are fluid. Map specific metas and decently frequent balance changes... It creates community and fun for the casuals aswell as the competetive players. I DONT want you to be able to play any hero anytime, I want some degree of counterplay and counterpick, strategy for maps and comps... I LOVED that abt OW. But I do believe you, Im just sad. I need a mourning period.

[@ratchetst3v38]

We saw a balanced game and it wasn't fun. OWL 2021 had every comp as viable (Chendu & Shanghai ran ball comps, Dallas ran non-hitscan comps, ATL made it to grand finals (over Glads, Shock, even Dallas) running a Rein comp when everyone was screaming that Ball comps were OP). That's the thing, TEAM COMPS were viable, meaning in ranked/ casuals: Hog means you can't run dive, brawl, etc; you can have Rein-Dva-Lucio-Mei-Cass and a Mercy one trick means 4-5 of you have to swap (or you run a horrid comp that loses). Individual carry was soooooo much harder on every role, and making up for a bad player was terrible. So people defaulted to Hog-Sig, Hog-Ball, Double shield because those were easier to run/ more solo oriented (even before Orisa started getting buffed). Imagine being the dev team that "solved" the game balance, but the above happened most games. The ranked playerbase/streamers will never be happy with the game for more than 1-2 months; why bother trying to satisfy them (If you're arguing "no new content in 2021" nonsense; look at Sojourn, Junker Queen, Kiriko, and maps like Colisseo and see how much the SAME people DON'T enjoy them)? They accepted that a vision change was needed. As someone who liked 6v6 way more than 5v5, it sucks that the game is no longer the way I liked it. But I can accept why the shift had to happen. I can still have fun with unranked 5v5 (and have the option to leave if I don't feel like playing against Hog, Orisa, Mercy-Sojourn, etc). In general, every role having a "broken" solo carry potential can be frustrating, but it's also relieving knowing that I don't have to rely on my team as much (especially compared to 2 CP attack where I'd kill 3-4, pressure point, and NOBODY from my team walked past choke til AFTER the enemy team returned. Maps having more flank routes also make up for your tanks not hitting w, again a huge issue in OW1) Take what we have instead of being pointlessly negative of what it was/ could be.

[@yoshi12370]

A lot of OW Ccs really downplay how big overwatch is outside of gameplay and it's honestly so strange to me.

[@Dmanbradley]

I barely ever finished my placements in OW, and I still think the game isnt well-made. Most of the arcade modes are poorly balanced, quickplay is just as toxic as competitive, and (3 months in) there *still* isn't any in-game rewards for regular play. You can get those 60 coins per week, but it's basically an insult with the shop prices all in the 100s and 1000s. Even for casual players, OW2 is a miserable experience unless you are playing with friends. Maybe it also works for streamers that can bond with their chat while playing QP or something, but literally anything can be fun when done with friends. The whole "fence painting" story from Huckleberry Finn explained that decades ago.

[@Bubble_0f_d00m]

As a casual player, on the whole I've been enjoying OW2, especially events like the Mount Olympus that so many content creators hated. It was fun and unique, with special skins and voice lines. I don't get why so many people thought it was bad, an unexpected fun new event with new content? Yes please. Compare that to the Winter event with almost no new content, no new game modes, and rewards giving out old skins? No thanks. I can understand the hate for that one. Is OW2 overly greedy in it's monetization? Yes. That's my biggest complaint so far about it. I really do believe Blizzard would have sold ten times the amount of skins if they priced them at $4 than $20, Blizzard would have made more money overall and the fans would have been happier. But does their monetization actually hurt gameplay? Not that I've seen. It's not "Pay $40 or you can never play this new hero" or classic Blizzard WOW style of "You must buy this $60 expansion for this game you already have to pay monthly subscriptions to if you want to be competitive." Core gameplay is all still free to play, there are no "subscriber" maps or "elite" heroes. And is the game balance off? Yeah, I've played Overwatch now for almost a decade since it's release, and guess what... the only time the balance wasn't off, was when they went two years without releasing a new hero. New things change game balance. It's going to happen. And I'd rather have new content than a perfectly balanced game.

[@jxmxsc]

I was fairly casual with competitive in OW1, doing just enough games to place, and maybe a few more if it would tip me from Plat into Diamond, for example. Still clocked in serious hours in QP and Arcade overall. On OW2's launch, the new ranking system demanding so much more of my time on each role just to have a visible rank felt off-putting, so I've just decided to play the "casual modes" in between other games and I've genuinely been having a great time with it. Yeah, there's a few big swings and misses with hero balance but nothing to stress over when you're not grinding or playing sweaty. So yeah, totally with SVB on this, as he came down from the Shambali Monastery in sandals to impart his new mantra. Experience tranquility, brother ✌️

[@blacxthornE]

The problem is as you said, with Clash of Clans not being a competitive game, "they're not trying to be". But that's not true for Overwatch. They ARE trying to be a serious competitive game. We have OWL ffs that was supposed to change the face of esports. They asked for *millions of dollars* from organizations for it. We have ranked modes. That's not an excuse. If they remove all competitive modes from the game and abolish OWL, then I will be right there with you. But when *mobile games* take things like balance and progression more seriously than this game I can't excuse it.

[@musicxxa6678]

I still have hope. Let them settle the game. I think there are massive technical issues behind the scene they are battling on with this early release of PVP part. Always feels like they are behind the schedule and very slow. If ranked and matchmaker experience improve, i think balance is easier problem to solve. 5v5 is also actually better than 6v6 from a solo ladder point of view. Hell i lose the game in hero selection screen in OW1. There is no such a thing now. In terms of balance, i think SJ is the obvious one but a lot of people missing the anti nade problem i don't know why. It's stupid as heck. I'm in peace with Kiriko with her latest heal nerf. She is slippery but her heal output took a hit and her value shifted towards suzu more. She is becoming in line with other supports slowly having a strong side and a weak side so not viable all the time like my main Zenyatta. From my view only Ana's nade is extremely stupid and creates a fundamental problems. Kiriko's 14sec suzu is fine if she doesn't excel at everything. Also we are all missing how amazing new tank hero is. Ramattra is a great design and he isn't braindead broken mess. I think heroes like Cassidy and Genji aren't weak. They are solid but they have their defined role/job and they are good at it. They don't excel at everything. We don't need to buff them. Like my main Zenyatta. I think we should clean up some outlier heroes from dps and tank role or at least do not add new problems like why we have a JQ in tank role in 5v5. We already have a Hog problem. Even Zarya doesn't really fit and requires a soft rework in my opinion. We should define the roles and archetypes. We have problematic heroes remnant of 6v6 and old attack/defense distinction. Edit: Oh i missed the Mercy and discord debate. Guys OW is fps/moba hybrid game. These abilities are fine as long as there is a playaround/trade off. Mercy is extremely slippery right now. Her mobility is overtuned. Frustration isn't dmg boost, it's her surviveability. She already benefitted from shift to 5v5 since there is 1 less tank but same amount of dps. Other healers designed to keep up 2 beefy tanks up, Mercy designed to fly across keep the DPS up. Mercy's value is higher now.

[@starling-ok]

Unfortunately this is not the problem for me; I’ve never been super competitive so that was never the issue. But the way OW2 has done its monetization has completely ruined it for me. I like to collect everything, and with OW1 I could. I’ve easily spent $500+ on OW1, and would have no problem continuing to spend money on OW2, if I could get everything by doing so. But I don’t have thousands to spend each year to get everything. With OW2, to get everything, I need to spend thousands and grind hours a day. It’s just not happening, so Overwatch feels terrible now. I hoped they could do F2P better, but it’s no better than any other free game.

[@thebrokedad858]

Hey SVB, you make some good points here. But the biggest takeaway is that Overwatch is indeed gone. Overwatch 2 is a fundamentally different experience. And those of us who loved Overwatch for what it already was have every right to be extremely disappointed. Games are meant to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, you should do something else. Between the awful balance, the absolute joke that is matchmaking, and the constant need to grind to get even minor unlocks, I realized I wasn't having fun anymore. I played Overwatch daily for almost 5 years. Less than two months into Overwatch 2's release, I lost all interest in playing. I miss it, honestly. I loved Overwatch and still enjoyed every match. But you're right - Overwatch 2 is a different game entirely. And I don't like this new game very much. I haven't played in months now. Maybe Blizzard will get their act together at some point. But I doubt it.

[@KaiDub24]

I don’t play at a rank where meta matters so that’s not even the issue for me. I’m just not having fun. period.. regardless of the mode. Comp isn’t fun for numerous reasons but I’m not enjoying qp either. The matchmaker feels off even in qp… last week I played vs a team of “Diamond challenger” title players. They stomped my ass. As they should have.. I’m not in Diamond and never have been. How can I “play for funsies ” vs that. Support is my fav role… but right now I feel like I’m being tortured. I’ve tried to ‘just have fun’ but I’m not. Arcade mode is my least fav way to play so I guess that’s probably why. I have the least amount of fun when I’m just messing about for no reason. My mental health is fine tho.. the easiest thing to do is just not play it 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@mkwsoxfan]

I see this "meta" talk thrown around more than the numbers can support. Meta truly only effects GM/top500/OWL and yet everyone in the community complains like it even applies to them. Sure it's not fun to get insta killed by sojourn, but it's essentially the same lack of fun as getting one shot by any sniper. It is a casual game 90+% of the community is at bronze thru diamond. Blizzard shouldn't care (and it's apparent they don't) about the game being hardcore competitive. But this dream from pros/GMs that the top level of play will ever be anything besides a 5v5 mirror matchup of the most broken heroes needs to stop. Every competitive game devolves to the pros finding what gives a 1% advantage and locking it as the meta. For the rest of us, just put aside this idea that your gold teammates are gonna need to run sojourn/hog or else you won't even attempt to win, and just play the game, it's actually pretty fun with this mentality

[@stevenluoma1268]

Okay so two things: 1. I quit hearthstone for the same reasons you did. Around when they started doing Hero cards (like Reno who casts random spells at round start), I lost a lot of interest in the game. It felt like I'd play 12 turns and then some rng would decide my fate. I stopped wanting to play competitively and then I stopped wanting to play altogether. 2. The reason a lot of people don't like how overwatch 2 is FTP and want to go back are mad because they CANT go back and play the old game. I don't miss 6v6 at all, but I know some people who just want the old game back.

[@VolkmasterBlood]

I just uninstalled instead. You could sit back and relax, but you still have to grind for new heroes in a hero-swapping game. And very new players? I have a student who told me he had to unlock most of the heroes. She said she played Baptiste at a friend's house and was really good with him, but struggled to unlock him over time. What a way to hurt new players... I still love 6v6. The old game is definitely gone, as you said, but I just learned to not deal with bs and to uninstall. For me, that was way better for my mental health than trying to find the silver lining in a crap game (like Cyberpunk 2077 or NMS levels of lying, which is what happened here).

[@Im-not-ram]

Just stop focusing on "the climb" so much, and take it for what it is. Stop saying to people "you suck" or "switch", and just do your best to ENJOY the game, not only focusing being on a high rank. I learned this the hard way, getting angry with every single loss in comp. I don't blame others anymore, just myself, and if I lost but gave my best and had fun its all good. Love saying "no" to people in chat that ask me to switch when I don't have the highest stats of the match. When you're winning no one says a peep, when you're losing they always play the kills/damage/heals numbers card. Just play along with their insults too. No one hates more than when you don't take their insults seriously and just play along with them. Resilience is key, just like in real life. Who knew, huh?

[@GaussianEntity]

I think people really need to ask themselves what they want from the game? Since Hearthstone was mentioned, I'd like to use an analogy found in card games. There are 3 types of players. You have Spike, Johnny, and Timmy. Timmy is a simple person. Timmy likes big flashy things. In card games, they tend to be big creatures or completely random outcomes that are fun. In OW, these would be your mystery heroes players or players that play for POTG. They just want the big flashy thing that shows them something cool at the end of the game. Then on the opposite side you have Spike. Spike only finds one thing fun: winning at any cost. It doesn't matter if the meta is monotone, it doesn't matter if the meta is poorly viewed by others. They will play it and winning is all that matters. Then finally you have Johnny players. Johnny players are weird ones. They like winning but they are more interested in nuance. In card games, this shows itself by creative deckbuilding, interesting combos, or just a deck that plays the game differently. In OW, this is where the lines blur but I would lump one-tricks, players that queue with friends, players that like diverse metas, and players that don't like feeling restricted to playing the same character to get results in this category. I think players are finally realizing they aren't actually Spike and are more Johnny. Hell who knows, maybe they might even be Timmy all along.

[@TheRealNickG]

Funny cos I hate the diminishing of OW competitiveness and mourn the likely impending loss of OWL...... And Battlegrounds was the last straw for me in Hearthstone. Deleted and never looked back after that POS nightmare of a nonsense game mode. I just couldn't want to get back to Tracer, take control, and blast in the face whatever is bothering me instead of waiting for dice to roll.

[@michaelg1778]

I stopped caring as much and it definitely helps. I still try to win but if I don't, I just don't care because I know my SR will probably go back up at some point. I still am annoyed with issues in the game like Mercy's damage boost and that she can pocket a mouth breathing Ashe player who hits 90% bodyshots but is still super effective or how insanely busted Orisa's Javelin Throw is but generally the less you really "care" the less all the little things actually bother you, and the more you enjoy the really good things about the game. Overwatch is a very good game, but maybe a lot of people are just trying to make it into something it isnt.

[@AlexTheHorrid]

I mean I guess you’re just accepting that it’s an utter downgrade. Which is cool, I did too. OW1 was so much better than this garbage. Sad that Blizz ruined one of the greatest games of all time. Now I only play like 2 times a week when I used to play every day for a few hours. RIP OW

[@Joe_Payne]

I will love overwatch when the workshop is fixed and when pve comes out.

[@timothybaer6552]

I'm trying I just hate feeling like I *always* have to carry. I understand that is how OW is but, seriously, I gotta play Orisa *again*? Like, can't I play Queen and have a team good enough to give us at least *a chance*? No. No I can't.

[@rutherhood5961]

My main issue is, coming from Overwatch 1 into 2 upsets me, they’ve put heros behind paywalls, they’ve monetised everything that was free, they’ve practically gotten rid of the whole progression system, so while I enjoy the game, I struggle to find reasons to keep playing now, after playing for years, the baseline gameplay isn’t enough to keep my hooked like it used to.

[@Wulfereene]

Problem is to me and friends the game too often isn't fun. To me it feels like matchmaking often creates rather unbalanced games. A straight loss where you lose every fight isn't fun. When some of your team dies before a real regroup, you essentially never even have a fair fight you might win the whole match. Same if you clearly win, riding the payload to the detonating without much effort feels nicer than losing but also isn't very engaging. I play comp and quick. I'm in gold. I don't care for climbing. I don't think the game gets much better at Plat or above. I'm okay with 50% win rate and staying on my level. The problem is not merely losing half of the games. The problem is how fun or unfun the games are. I've had great losses. Close games decided at the last seconds. Where both sides win and lose and engaging struggle happens. Good games. But the number of steamrolls where you feel like it doesn't matter what you do. You cannot carry the bad team. Or you would win even if you afk. That too often

[@theredguy92]

You’re probly right. Straight tragic though bc the casual audience will abandon this shit in a year or two when the next new shiny game comes out and the die hards will be left a giant mess just like OW1. Also I got the first 2 battle passes to grind but if it’s just gonna be a casual game with no reward for actually being good then I’ll prob just save my time and money going forward. Hope everyone enjoys the game going forward but I just don’t think it’s for me.

[@nickdicerbo6361]

Thank u for enlightening everyone that this game is NOT built to be competitive. The problem however is that the devs are trying to make it sound like one because the game will die without its hardcore player base. If u dont believe that this game is a casual game, just take a second to step back and look at the graphics. How can a kids game ever truly be a competitive esport. A game that is reliant on rule34 and anime-like graphics, that doesnt show ur rank, and is “kid friendly”, will never be taken seriously by, lets face it, the real world.

[@winston_best_tank2277]

"PvE is the real deal" - it is massive mount of copium Just in general, OW2 is not the only game out there. Explore and find something else, whatever makes you happy. I uninstalled and stopped playing OW after seeing their awful season 2 patch, I can say it was the best decision ever.

[@Chronochrome]

I understand this viewpoint, but even if it's obvious that the casual audience is transparently their main focus, it doesn't excuse the lack of communication and swift, reasonable balancing. To me, the only audience they CAN appeal to is the casual one because I'm confident at this point after 7 years of weird ass decisions (and indecisions), they simply do not know how to close Pandora's Box with the radical design elements of their heroes. They want the game to have something for everyone, but in the end, that just makes it too messy to untangle. And then they add another layer of madness every 18 months with a new hero that invariably possesses some broken ass mechanic that is impossible to fix without completely changing it or even removing it. They're just blindly throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. There's just no way to respect it as a casual game because a casual game is something that would make sense for anyone to fully enjoy, but it entirely fails to do that. The game is just objectively bad and no amount of copium can change that.

[@ryanpalmateer8632]

Although you may be right about enjoying the game more if not taken seriously, I think that point completely highlights the reason why I would never spend money on cosmetics for the game. We may as well still be playing OW1 in limbo land, just waiting for the Microsoft takeover because the direction of this game has completely gone downhill. OW2 feels like we are playing an experimental patch and should not be taken seriously. What’s happening in OWL is a big sign that this game is falling apart. The team owners are just reacting first because they have real money on the line and can see the game is trash and not getting better, but worse.

[@matteoschlechtleitner4550]

I get the point, and i completly agree, but why does this not make it feel better to me? Realize it's not a competitive game. But that exactly what makes me sad and hurts. Because I wanted it to be something else, I was promised it would have been something else. As long as I dont climb, I can always "blame" myself for not beeing good enough, but when you say the game you are putting effort in doesnt exist, that doesn't make me feel better. As an example: as a kid I was frustrated at some point because I had a plane toy I couldn't get to fly. When I grew up, and maybe I would have had the skill, the plane wasn't there anymore. Did that make me feel better? No.