How is the Church Related to Old Testament Fulfillment?

[@rogeraraujo502]

Very helpful - thank you Michael!

[@chrislabrec]

Thank you very clear and helpful!

[@justindaugherty475]

Is there a way we can access this word document? I’m an OT teacher and this would be very helpful for me.

[@pauladams6067]

Hello Michael, I really enjoy your books and teaching. I understand the mystery revealed of Jew and Gentile in Christ as new man in the Church. Do you teach that the Church and that distinction of one new man ceases to exist in the millennium and eternal state?

[@conniemarmo8234]

I liked most of it

[@manonthestars]

Are you aware of a dispensational critique, review, or interaction with the works of Jason A. Staples? His two books on this topic are: 1. "The Idea of Israel in Second Temple Judaism: A New Theory of People, Exile, and Israelite Identity" (2021) 2. "Paul and the Resurrection of Israel: Jews, Former Gentiles, Israelites" (2023) From my understanding he is not a covenant theologian; he is a biblical scholar who also does not align with the traditional or New Perspective on Paul. It seems he is approaching the Israel/Church distinction from a different perspective than Reformed theology and dispensationalism, so I thought it would be interesting to hear any interaction with his work from the dispensational side. Any resources or your take on it would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[@BrotherInChrist]

Thank you for this message, Mike. I value you your insights! Natural sons of Abraham (and Isaac and Jacob) = Israel Spiritual sons of Abraham, counted righteous by faith = Israel of God (cultivated olive tree) I believe the spiritual sons of Abraham, including all saints in salvation history (Hebrews 11), made perfect together (Hebrews 11:40;12:23), will also receive a fulfillment of the promises to Abraham and to his Seed. ***** Key verse for the fulfillment to the natural descendants: Romans 9:4 "They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises." ***** To the natural descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, a fulfillment of: - People (Jeremiah 23:3,5-6; Ezekiel 11:17; Ezekiel 20:33-38; Zechariah 13:9; Romans 11:26-27) - Land (Leviticus 26:42; Deuteronomy 11:21; Ezekiel 20:42; Ezekiel 36:28; Jeremiah 30:3) - Blessing (Isaiah 59:20-21; Jeremiah 31:33; Ezekiel 11:19-20; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ezekiel 37:14; Zechariah 12:10) ***** Key verse for the fulfillment to the spiritual descendants of Abraham, counted righteous by faith; the OT & NT saints: Romans 4:13 "For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. ***** To the spiritual descendants of Abraham, counted righteous by faith, a fulfillment of: - People (Daniel 7:18,22; John 10:16; Ephesians 2:15; Hebrews 11:40, 12:23; Revelation 1:5-6; 5:9; 7:9; 14:4; 19:7-8; 20:4) - Land (Daniel 7:27; Romans 4:13; Matthew 5:5) - Blessing (Daniel 12:1-2; Hebrews 11:40, 12:23; Romans 8:29-30; 1 Corinthians 15:42-44; Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:4; 1 John 3:2; Revelation 20:6) ***** To recap, I believe the promises to Abraham and to his Seed (in the Messianic kingdom) are fulfilled to the natural descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and to the spiritual descendants, the sons of Abraham counted righteous by faith. People - Repentant Israel/resurrected saints of God Land - Israel (expanded)/the whole earth Blessing - regeneration/glorification And all of this occurs when the Son of Man returns as King (Daniel 7:14; Matthew 25:31; Revelation 11:15). Blessings

[@BrotherInChrist]

Mike, can you explain why there are instances where you capitalize the term "church," and others you don't? I'm sure you have spoken about it before but I am not familiar with the reasoning... Thank you.

[@doctrinematters]

The claim, "the church is not mentioned in the OT," is frequently heard, in dispensational circles. I'm wondering if it matters to distinguish between implicit and explicit references? Paul does put the church into the category of a musteirion, defined as one of “the mystery" (ies) "of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed...". Would it be correct to say that Paul's use of "made known" doesn't necessarily mean not mentioned at all, to previous "sons of men", it's just that it is not clearly defined in the OT? As I now understand it, the explicit NT scriptures, that give us a complete description of what the church is, is not found in the OT. But, there are implicit OT references to the church, though the church is not plainly defined in these verses. It was helpful that you pointed out those very OT passages.

[@hajoel5505]

To me “implicit mentions” seem to be spiritualisation/allegorisation of OT passages.

[@doctrinematters]

"I am the door." Symbolism. The gospels teach implicitly that God raised Jesus from the dead (stone rolled away, presence of angels, Jesus' appearance, etc.) but Paul teaches explicitly, in Eph., "...when he raised him from the dead." It was a literal stone rolled away, literal angels present, and literally Jesus who appeared, but the concept of the resurrection is implied in the gospels, not stated directly, as it is said by Paul. Likewise, the OT verses Dr. Vlach pointed out are all literal promises made to Gentiles, but I do see them as allusions to the Church, compared to the clearly defined teachings, in the NT, in terms of its body, indwelling, being the Bride, and the Church's translation. My first comment was me wondering, out loud, why many dispensationalists say "...the Church isn't mentioned in the OT," when, clearly, this video points out otherwise. True, the "mystery" of the Church isn't made completely known until the NT. Are those who say the Church isn't mentioned in the OT referring to the explicit teaching on the Church as not being in the OT? I don't know the answer to that. We'll have to ask Tommy Ice.

[@michaeljvlach7388]

Jesus has to arrive with His person and work to have the church.

[@doctrinematters]

Still wondering why the OT passages you reference aren't more widely recognized as direct references to what will become the Church, at Christ's coming (i.e. those who say the Church is not mentioned in the OT). Are they just not familiar with what you showed in this video? If so, well, then, problem solved with the posting of this video.

[@sanctuslex478]

@@michaeljvlach7388 In my opinion, the entire Psalm 22 is the only one in the entire OT, but at the same time a very clear fragment announcing the emergence of the ethno-Christian Church after the crucifixion of the Messiah. We can see the faith of Israel of the first century and then the faith of the nations from the ends of the world. In the Septuagint and Vulgate, the word Church is even mentioned there. I consider Psalm 22 as a unique and clear fragment in the entire OT announcing the Church and I believe it has solid foundations, especially considering verse 22:23 (in the Septuagint), where the word "ekklēsia" appears - translated as "Church". Many exegetes agree that this Psalm contains messianic prophecies that include the suffering of the Messiah, and also extend to the future impact of this event on the nations, which can be interpreted as a prediction of the Church. Although Paul does speak in Ephesians 3:6 of a mystery that was not fully revealed in the OT, Psalm 22 may be considered a unique passage in the entire OT that suggests a future inclusion of the nations in the plan of salvation within the Church, not the Millennial Kingdom. Of course, the word "ekklēsia" translated as "Church" literally means "Assembly," in this case "assembly of the nations in Messiah." Of course, I do not question the belief in a literal Millennial Kingdom, but I believe that Psalm 22 is not speaking of that period but of the present period of the Church. This exegesis is confirmed by the Epistle to the Hebrews, where in Heb. 2:12 Psalm 22 is quoted to members of the Jewish Church.