How Madoka Magica Destroyed an Entire Genre

Pour one out for the magical girl, lost to the ether like Mami Tomoe's head.

[@MyrmidonRadd]

The thing I like most about Madoka Magica, is that it didn't JUST deconstruct the traditional magical girl concepts we were familiar with. Madoka Magica, or more specifically Madoka herself, went out of her way to refuse the shift in tone towards a more callous, cruel status quo and rewrote the very rules of reality to make the world a kinder place. Madoka Magica wasn't JUST a Deconstruction, but also a *Reconstruction* . The true tragedy of the show is that nobody took that last lesson to heart, and instead focused on the suffering as if that was all you needed to make people like the genre again, and that completely flies in the face of the ultimate mission statement of Madoka Magica in the first place: That no matter how horrible things may seem, Hope is always there.

[@Crosshill]

it deconstructed it to make a viewer who wouldnt normally enjoy magical girl fluff interested and invested in the premise, then reconstructed it which made the thematically classic magical girl ending feel very welcome after everything that had happened. it snuck up on ya, you didnt expect it to end beautifully and thats a bigger twist bigger than mamis decapitation, i think

[@jemm113]

And to add onto the reconstruction point, Madonna reinforces the entire point of a magical girl: that the heroine herself is the being, the force, that is meant to usher in the hope and optimism into the story. While most Magical Girl shows are incredibly cutesy with saturated colors, they still very much have to fight villains and monsters that if you peel away the paint have horrifying implications for their effect on the world. Something like Symphogear demonstrates this beautifully as the monsters are incredibly brutal with an incredibly horror that all the people die simply by being in contact, making the situation hopelessly grim. It’s only by the night of the magical girls that there’s any amount of hope for everyone else.

[@davidsamudio3899]

@@jemm113 symphogear XV did it the best out of the 5, and Original symphogear was the most crude of them for a while, but every season ends up with a torch of hope, and symphogear is contemporary with madoka magica, so is pure coincidence they are similar

[@mistercow2107]

In a way many aspects of the magical girl genre has seeped in to the wider Japanese literary psyche. Shows like sailor moon is probably one of the first to show girls battling with evil, inspiring others, and such. This might inspired classics such as ghost in the shell and yona of the dawn. If you also look closely at newer releases on male targeted genre such as isekai, you can see female protagonists filling in the usual male role. For example kuma kuma bear, kumo desu ka, and those novels written by FUNA. As an avid web novel reader I also saw the rise of otome game isekai. These work took the place of late pre madoka magical girls imo. There are cute girls, fights, some drama, friendship, and magic. It would be hard for magical girls to bounce back in their old form. There is already something filling in that niche. Perhaps doing so well as to warrant a problem of having too many otome villainess things.

[@davidsamudio3899]

@@mistercow2107 so far they have adapted two Isekai Villaines works, Katarina and Aileen, but there are countless ones waiting for it and Im first on line to consume them

[@MoreImbaThanYou]

"Oversaturation leads to subversion, but eventually, subversion becomes the norm and then oversaturates itself." That line was genious.

[@luckyowl10]

That's isekai nowadays, it became so subverted it lost its origin, a protagonist trapped in a magical world that wants to escape it and come back home. To he honest, I don't even remember the last big isekai that even mentioned to idea of going back into real life.

[@sematy4948]

@@luckyowl10 I think Shield Hero touched upon it several times in the anime, although since I'm not a manga reader, I still don't know how it will play out (although the hints are there). :/

[@luckyowl10]

@@sematy4948 I didnt watch the whole shield hero anime, just a bit and watched reviews of it. But he isn't the anime to change isekai forever, it falls into the pitfalls many isekai fall into.

[@NeverlandSystemPixie]

I agree, too... brilliantly stated.

[@ohno209]

@@luckyowl10 admittedly don’t read or watch isekai very often, but “so I’m a spider, so what”, was a really fun read, even if most of what makes it so special is locked away in its light novels Deconstructs and recontextualizes a lot of generic isekai tropes, from the nature of the video game-style system to the nobleborn “hero” to the protagonist suffering and hating every minute of her life in the other world

[@user-gb7ji6xy5d]

Madoka deconstructs the magical girl genre but meanwhile remains a love letter to the genre itself. It's not Urobuchi's fault that all copycats learn from PMMM is to throw girls into the blender.

[@erichfiedler1481]

It's also why I consider Symphogear to be Madoka Magica's antithesis

[@reggielacey2235]

It's not a destruction and nobody copied it.

[@Gordonfreeman551]

It’s been years. Move on

[@JabamiLain]

​@@erichfiedler1481what is that Mahou Shoujo about ?

[@MrTigracho]

@@JabamiLain Oh boy, is like if the person who directed Kill la Kill decided to make a lovechild between Love Live and Metal Gear Revengeance, with a script and dialogue that often resembles Tokusatsu shows like Kamen Rider. I don't know if really call it Magical Girl, as it could also classify as the Mecha Musume Genre. Or Cute Girls Doing stuff with Highly technological Mechanical Power Suits. But there is also Magic, so I guess it passes. Is a fun show, and I hate the fact it did not reached overseas popularity. If it had reached Latinoamerica, they would have loved it.

[@SupermewX300]

"If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well then I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them, until they believe." -Madoka Kaname, episode 12

[@Tornadopelt]

Madoka lowkey has Kamina energy.

[@takusaka3667]

@@Tornadopelt oh man you're so right

[@oximoron613]

I think it's funny that if the magical girl anime Princess Tutu came out after Madoka Magica, it would have been an excellent criticism of the "Tragical Girl". The story is about an author who is determined to write an epic tragedy and his characters who are trying to fight their fate. The author loves to see his characters suffer because he thinks it's what makes a great story, and gets frustrated when hope and kindness somehow still prevail. In the end, the characters realize that they might not be able to get a perfect happy ending, but rather an honest ending where they don't have to live as tropes

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Dude, it’s 2022, get a life and a get a grip. Stop trying to make long documents comments from 2013 anime into an identity. You’re just sad and pathetic.

[@oximoron613]

@@Gordonfreeman551 So if I'm sad and pathetic for commenting on a video about a 2013 anime, what does that make you?

[@arimars9565]

I’m definitely going to check it out

[@randompromises1038]

I'm a little over the idea that suffering is what makes a story good - struggles make a story compelling, yes, but it's the outcome and consequences that arrive as a direct result of how the characters face their struggles that makes the story worthwhile.

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Yes that’s very nice weeb now go back into your basement

[@SaiScribbles]

I've never heard the term "tragical girl" before now and I love it. I heard a take on the ending of Madoka recently that pointed out Madoka herself stubbornly instills the ideals of the magical girl genre on the world in the end. Even though it's bittersweet for her it does, in the end, reinforce the idealistic optimism and hope of the genre. And that's something imitators making their fetishistic teenage-girl-suffering-p0rn didn't get.

[@gaygoddessnamedmadoka2252]

a lot of them are trying hard to be dark and ends up being meh too much unnecessary borderline fetish 🅱️entai in the end becoming a mid to low quality all the time

[@dschehutinefer5627]

I usually see it called "Dark Magical Girl Show", but yeah, those usually seem like they are advertised only as torture porn. Full agreement. All these greedy studios completely miss the point that Madoka Magica is essentially about a middle-school girl with severe self-esteem issues and PTSD ripping off the devil so hard that the universe needs to reboot. It's still bittersweet because she can't fix all the doom and gloom, but she does manage to at least make it more bearable.

[@erikburzinski8248]

@@gaygoddessnamedmadoka2252 well kyuby's statement was correct madoka's wish did in fact causes despair so great it destroyed another universe (in this case the universe being an entire genre)

[@Kyouma.]

@Sai: Plus, Madoka's wish contradicts Homura's, which leads to Rebellion

[@astuteanansi4935]

It's kinda sad that even the *official fucking sequel* to Madoka Magica didn't get it. Considering that they went out of their way to shit all over a perfectly good ending and replace it with more edge. All within the span of like 15 minutes when the movie seems almost over, almost like some exec looked at the finished product, said "WE CAN'T HAVE A HAPPY ENDING! WE HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH SUFFERING YET!" and forced the team to hurriedly write in the Homucifer stuff

[@StargazingSketcher]

Whenever I think about the concept of Tragical Girls, I always think about how Sailor Moon, THE Magical Girl show was still pretty dark. Like Season 2 opens with Usagi lamenting that her job as a magical girl isn't actually over, especially after how Season 1 ended. And while it's no turning into a witch, she's still a 15-year old running around fighting monsters, and the story never really glosses over that. The only difference is that Usagi gets what Mami was trying to get - friends to make her struggle worthwhile.

[@ruedelta]

See, I don't think Sailor Moon, I just go straight to Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne. Maybe I am weird because KKJ was my first magical girl show, but the genre has always had that capacity towards darkness that nothing else did. Princess Tutu only reinforced that image for me.

[@Pika-Chu64]

I also think of Tokyo mew mew

[@AyameAkito]

No to mention the fact that Sailor Moon did the whole tragical girl first or are we forgetting the whole plot point about Sailor Moon living beyond the heat dead of the universe by virtue of being truely immortal, seeing everyone she ever cared and loved died and she being so unable to cope with an unending existance that she IS the actual Big Bad of the show wanting Usagi to kill her and end her suffering?

[@mlgproplayer2915]

Sailor Moon, Utena, Princess Tutu, Uta Kata... There's a lot of dark Mahou Shoujos, that I believe to be as dark, or even darker, than Madoka.

[@convergeman7825]

I'm not as familiar with MM or Sailor Moon, but a similar sort of relationship seems to exist between Evangelion and the older mecha anime. Despite its numerous other good qualities, Evangelion is incorrectly touted by some as the first show to explore the long-term mental effects and PTSD of young mecha pilots, when even the very earliest Gundams had actually been doing that for years.

[@xiaxiyan6158]

Personally, I feel like you really need to understand the history behind magical girl anime to fully appreciate Madoka Magica. I see so many people recommend the show to new anime fans, not realizing that the reason it’s so good is because it plays off of the viewer’s preconceived understanding and relationship with the magical girl genre. I consumed sooo many magical girl shows when I was younger, so when I watched Madoka Magica I had the experience I imagine the show runners intended me to have. I also feel like so many people walked away from this show without diving deeper into magical girl anime. So many magical girl shows deal with dark themes, it’s just not as in-your-face as in Madoka. Shows like Princess Tutu, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Full Moon wo Sagashite, all deal with deep themes that resonate with a lot of young girls. As the themes generally appeal to younger girls and women more, I think a lot of anime watchers disregard the genre unless it becomes another “tragical girl anime,” at which point it suddenly becomes worth more (in their eyes). I feel like part of the reasons why Madoka clones are so prevalent is because they appeal to a broader audience, people who don’t want to touch magical girl anime. As such, a lot of the shows only thrive off of shock, as they can’t utilize the existing magical girl tropes since the audience could care less about that.

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Dude, it’s 2022, get a life and a get a grip. Stop trying to make long documents comments from 2013 anime into an identity. You’re just sad and pathetic.

[@ezraho8449]

I think what you touch on is the fact that Madoka Magic isn’t really as subversive as people think it is. A more accurate analysis would be to call it a commentary on the genre. It leans slightly further into the dark tones and touches on slightly more mature topics but it plays the story straight the majority of the time. It just looks at a lot of the tropes in a realistic way.

[@Scarshadow666]

My thoughts as well! While I have really grown up with magical girl anime as much myself (unless you count magical girl inspired media, like W.I.T.C.H.), but I have grown up with movies like The Last Unicorn and the original Powerpuff Girls series, and Western audiences initial judgement that they were "girly" turned people off from them, until I grew older and people could learn more about them as social media took off. Shows how much people shouldn't judge a book by its cover, and how much people really don't often step out of their comfort zone.

[@lunarisita26]

THIS!! I always thought it was hilarious because Madoka, as a character, is the quintessence of a magical girl MC. She reminds me so much of Usagi. Let's not forget how, in the last arc of Sailor Moon, she had to literally kill her friends because the main antagonist revived clones of them to kill and torture her. Do you know how many times some main characters are killed in sailor moon? And i'm talking about the manga not the 90's anime. Or how, in Magic Knight Rayearth, the final villain was not the evil man they were told to defeat, but the princess who had made them magical girls in the first episode to help her (it's WAY more complex than this, but the pot twist was soo good) They were a couple in love who had to be killed for the sake of the planet, even though the first season had them being trained and going through hell to become full warriors. They ended up becoming murderers, killing an innocent person whose worst sin was being in love, all for a foreign planet that had lied to them because they were their last hope. They had to carry that trauma. the second season really shows how everything affected them. Most of these people criticizing magical girl works are mostly men who have never experienced them... because is a genre targeted towards a female audience

[@justdorathy]

OMG yes. I feel the same. Madoka feels like a love letter to the genre. It feels like it was made from and for people that have watched a lot of magical girl shows. Also even magical girl shows that are meant to be kid friendly have their more mature episodes. Like in smile precure (this episode was cut in the west) there is an episode about dealing with the loss of a parent. Yayoi has lost her father as a kid and feels like she is bit by bit forgetting the few memories she has of him, and the whole episode surrounds her trying to hold onto the things she remembers about him. To me this angle of, forgetting someone that died when you were young was very powerful because all I could think was, if I was in this position I'd be terrified. When I told this to my mom who also lost her father when she was young, she cried, because this was something she had to experience. Yeah it's not as mature as madoka, nobody dies on screen, but at the same time it feels more mature than any of the dark tragic magical girl shows we have seen lately. Mature themes have always been there, and they always will be. People just don't notice they are there because of the feminine and cute aestethic and because no one is getting dilacerated on screen.

[@nathanblackburn1193]

A lot of dark magical girl shows kinda miss the whole point of Madoka Magica as while the story is steeped in despair it ends with hope, on the topic of other dark magical girl shows I have heard good things about Wonder Egg Priority though I've also heard it gets kinda weird near the end like the story takes a shift into full "what the heck!?" mode or something

[@devion-5440]

Yeah it started off pretty great but they totally dropped the ball midway through, and the ending was just a mess

[@datavalisofficial8730]

As someone who watched the full thing with an open mind, Wonder Egg Priority disappointed me I absolutely loved the way episode 1 started it all, it had so much potential, WEP for me is the new Big Order

[@datavalisofficial8730]

Now wonder egg priority just feels like the smart japanese bussinessman wanting to make another terrarium to raise another lucrative fandom of 13yo i-say-im-bisexual-but-im-really-not tumblr-ass girls Edit: AND FAILED! They should have taken notes with netflix

[@polonyuino5016]

@@datavalisofficial8730 trampstamps

[@myprofilepictureisafish]

As someone who watched and loved Wonder Egg Priority but didn't watch any other episodes after that one girl comes and basically forces Momoe to eat her own 'pet' not before killing it in front of her, I took a little break because that was a really truly shocking episode for me and I remember it being really well done, but after I heard the show got worse I haven't watched anything after that, I'm content with where I ended it

[@eddthehead123]

The headbite was made all the more shocking because it was up-beat music, and Mami's internal monologue about moving on from the past for the girls she now had to support, and could be supported by. It had all the hallmarks of a hero overcoming the enemy and developing further. And then boom.

[@heavenlyarianator6335]

And also it was a real death instead of usually on tv the hero gets saved at the last second

[@randompromises1038]

I normally hate shock value but I think it was effective here. Even though I knew what was gonna happen, the fact they actually went there and committed to killing her off genuinely shocked me. I expected her to come back at some point, reveal that magical girls can regenerate since I'd seen the clip out of context, but upon watching the whole show, the impact and weight paid off before, during, and after.

[@PurpleMoon799]

​@@randompromises1038doesn't she come back in the movies? didn't watch them yet.

[@randompromises1038]

@@PurpleMoon799 I didn't either but I'm pretty sure it's a timeline thing?

[@ak_nora]

​@@randompromises1038Yeah it's a timeline thing. However, they sticked to their gun and allowed her to die for 5 straight episodes (even having the first half of Ep4 dedicated to grieving her), and I respect that.

[@19spacecats]

Meanwhile Utena feels like a foil to magical girls in the opposite way that Madoka took it. Where Madoka added realistic, deadly consequences to fluffy magical girl ideals, Utena made the magical, friendship, and emotional side so powerful that it became reality. Magical rules that while they are illusions and metaphors, can punch just as hard.

[@XX-sp3tt]

10:46 Magia Record, as a side story to Madoka Magica... has surprising moment of optimism. And it ironically deconstructions how banal the bleakness has become. When hit with what was a big reveal in the original anime, "magical girls become witches" while there supporting cast are horrified and broken as is standard issue... our heroine says, "Okay, yes, that is very sad, can we please get back to looking for my sister now?" The writers know the whole "magical girls with horrible secret" can't hold water like it used to, and our heroine lamp shades that. Heck, it deconstructions how quick we are to demonize Kyubey, an unfeeling alien who can't even feel individuality or emotions... and yet justify "for the greater good" when it's OUR greater good. Our heroine doesn't care about this conspiracy she's found herself in beyond finding her sister and saving her friends from the creepy cult of magical girl supremacists that's snared them.

[@TnAdct1]

Of course, the anime version ruins that by ignoring the more positive (when compared to Madoka Magica) tone that the gacha game it was based on had and instead continued to embrace the shock value of the original series (especially when it comes to how the show handles Momoko, the one character that actually tries to maintain a positive attitude after suffering the crap that made the third quarter of Madoka Magica and whose main issue was that the Homura clone was basically doing the "distancing herself from others to protect them" thing that could do more harm than good).

[@develish1111]

I'm of the opinion Mami's decapitation is just the windup for the Episode 3 gutpunch. That's what everyone remembers, but what really solidified it was the ED. The first two episodes had your typical happy-go-lucky magical girl ED, but very shortly after Mami's death, that was to be no more. What we got instead was the hauntingly beautiful Magia by Kalafina. Combine that masterpiece of music with the motif of Madoka running through pitch black nothingness, and the tone going forward was set, HARD. It also offers a very good look into the true theme of the series of pursuing hope through that darkness, as the hopeful OP did not change at all into the next episode. Fantastic video, you definitely have the presentation of a creator with multiple times your actual sub count.

[@mangamanzx]

Fun fact the broadcast version of the first 2 episodes didn't have end credits they just had the credits running in the last few minutes of the episodes, it was weird but no one questioned it, the cutsey facade ending was made later and in fact on a rewatch of the series I remember being confused as to why the first 2 episodes had end credit sequences And personally the lack of end credits helps ease you into the feeling of unease creeping as the facade of being a cutsey show already had cracks showing that you don't notice until too late, like Madoka ignoring the little hints that being a magical girl isn't all sunshine and rainbows or the viewers not noticing that a few details in the opening hinting at the darkness in the main series.

[@develish1111]

@@mangamanzx That's pretty cool. I had no idea about this as I first watched the anime years later. I also think it's entirely possible I pretty much ignored the signs as I knew a decent amount about the theme going in, though luckily knew nothing about the actual events.

[@mandatorysemicolon6427]

YES! Years later I still remember the chills hearing that ED switch for the first time...

[@lucasmitchell9027]

That's actually one thing that I think animes should do more as a sort of 4th wall breaking. Re:Zero did something similar with some of it's chapters where the ending changed to a more tragic one on certain episodes (I can only remember one at the top of my head tho). It's pretty meta and sort of sends chills down your spine when it happens.

[@Vastin]

Hah. I remember finding Madoka knowing exactly nothing about it other than it was a suddenly very popular Magical Girl show and after seeing the quality of the first episode asked my 8-yr old daughter if she wanted to watch it as she had loved Nanoha. My even younger daughter wanted to watch too, so we sat down and watched a couple episodes and they loved it - but by the end of Ep 2 there were some thematic red flags popping up in the back of my head, and I quietly snuck off to preview Ep 3 without my girls. As Magia roared to life at the end with Madoka fleeing into the endless void I was in a bit of shock. I'd kind of steeled myself for a dark turn, but it wasn't that. 0_0; So, yeah. Childhood trauma barely averted there - my own adult trauma notwithstanding. I cut off that one off for the time being and she got back around to watching it when she was 13-14 and it became one of her favorite shows ever. Phew.

[@melonpan_mp3]

i love madoka magica but it’s because i love magical girls. it’s cool to see the themes of mahou shojo layed out like that. not because i hate magical girls and want to watch some little girls suffer. edit: madoka magica is a wonderful deconstruction of the magical girl genre, but it can also stand on its own. these tragical girl shows are completely built on the shock value of a usually cutesy genre gone edgy. madoka magica is wonderful despite the fact that its based on a usually cutesy genre. when i first watched it i didn’t even know ppl thought it was so shocking (not trying to be edgy or different lol). i kinda hated it at first. it took me while to figure out what madoka was trying to say. i thought it was just saying that it was to stupid for girls to have wishes and that they should just give up, and tbh it might have been, but i came up with my own interpretations and it’s one of my favorite shows now. i love madoka magica despite the fact that it’s edgy. tragical girls HAVE to shock you. they have no good story, no good characters, no good anything. you can’t come up with your own interpretation because there is nothing to interpret. they want to be madoka magica, but they can’t be. because madoka magica did something different, and did it well. tragical girls just copy and paste.

[@nihilego3634]

I really like how, in the end, it tells the same thing as every other magical girl show. Just in a very, _very_ different way.

[@melonpan_mp3]

right, there’s still hope. there’s still a lesson. these edgy madoka wannabe shows are just twisted money makers. madoka magica feels like it was made by people who care about the genre, and actually took the time to understand the lessons/themes in mahou shojo. these other shows just want the success of pmmm. there’s absolutely no morals, nothing to say about the world. just riding off of something betters success.

[@byakuyatogami2905]

I'm a huge fan of shows like precure and sailor moon and I didn't really feel like Madoka Magica was anti the whole concept, to me it connected a lot to folklore concepts of deals with demons, or being self destructive while thinking you're doing something right. To me it's up there with Evangelion as anime taking concepts we know and writing mental illness and general levels of darkness into it. It's one of those things that's a lot better if you're already a genre fan. I still wish we'd have a magical girl resurgence as I'm really bored with the current harem isekai trend

[@nihilego3634]

@@byakuyatogami2905 Right ? A lot of people call it a deconstruction, but it's more like it plays around with common tropes and archetypes to create its own universe.

[@melonpan_mp3]

@@byakuyatogami2905 i mean, at some point this same thing will happen to isekai, but after that i don’t think it will be magical girls. even if i was magical girls, i don’t want magical girl shows to be mass produced like that. very unlikely it will be magical girls though because it’s shojo.

[@sopranophantomista]

People: Nobody wants more tragical girls. Me: *Pouts in Revolutionary Girl Utena*

[@kellyjohana516]

As long as they aren't edgy, I am not against them. In fact, I gotta find a good definition of Utena to watch it.

[@mostlyjoe]

*says mecha died* Entire mecha fandom: "the reports of our demise has been greatly exaggerated."

[@RoseProseFroze]

having actually played Magia Record before the English version died I would actually call it a reconstruction of the Magical Girl Genre. It's still gritty but it brings things back to freindship triumphing over all.

[@tylerclapp9422]

Can confirm. Game>Anime in its presentation and execution (but at least we got SOME modern clean Sakuga from the anime) Like i missed Alina's whole tirade of "Humanity desires conflict and destruction. Man says all it wants is peace, and yet I am here." In Ch10 when she hijacks Eve and exploding the city before WaffleHouse arrives

[@greendawn6885]

I wish I was able to finish the game before it died 😢

[@PipimiOden]

@@greendawn6885 i don't think the en servers got to the ending chapter of the game story, but idk

[@RoseProseFroze]

@@PipimiOden they reached the end of the 1st arc.

[@PipimiOden]

@@RoseProseFroze ...is the first arc the full game story? i don't think it is

[@mewtwotwo2222]

pretty cure is like single handidly keeping the magical girl afloat

[@15_heidune72]

I agree. And it's a Saturday cartoon type with monsters of the day!

[@letisfia3505]

Yes and i love it unironically

[@sparkywilson1405]

Precure's monster design is (generally) so awful and boring it legitimately angers me. I'll check in every couple of years and ask "Are they still fighting household objects and blobs of darkness with evil faces on them?" and the answer is always "yes" and then I go away. I got spoiled hard watching Sailor Moon, CCS, and Cutie Honey as a kid.

[@annettehernandez3985]

Though I would argue little witch academia is part of the magical girl genre

[@zavierzanetti2357]

PreCure is in life support lol

[@markshamp3699]

"Jojo is just a magical girl's show" I've never before felt so viscerally offended and shocked over something that was true.

[@davidgusquiloor2665]

I will have to say that dark tones and subversion has been done multiple times in the mahou shoujo long before Madoka, going as far as Minky Momo actually dying after being hit by a truck(the show doesn't end there but still), the twist of the first part or Rayearth, Princess Tutu and even more examples could be brought up. Just like Mecha, Mahou Shoujo is underapreciated by the people that watch only 2 entries before watching a "desconstruction" (Like EVA, that in reality it doesn't deconstruct that much) and then deciding that everything before it must somehow be not as deep, artistic, or good.

[@ShinyStarriNite]

Oh wow, the first I've seen someone mention _Rayearth_ in these comments! Awesome!

[@ricemilk413]

"while shounen anime had a very rocky road butchered by 4kids and tucked away on toonami, magical girl shows were a near 1 to 1 translation, just with bad dubbing" laughs in cousins and ton of cut footage to make magical girl shows less queer and dark (and in cardcaptor sakura's case, more for boys)

[@manticore5733]

Was just about to write this too! Sailor Moon heavily edited to remove same-sex relationship and trans-gender references. Cardcaptor Sakura similarly had same-sex relationship suggestions literally cut out and entirely reframed to try to sell it as shonen not shoujo!

[@Ms666slayer]

Mexican got all of that with no censorship it was beatiful.

[@AndresGonzalez-zu4um]

@@Ms666slayer viva mexico

[@ladylark10884]

@@Ms666slayer i love being a hispanic anime fan sm

[@drkaiser26]

@@Ms666slayer all of latin america tbf

[@user-ze3kn3cf1g]

i think purposely ignoring the renaissance of sailor moon and tokyo mew mew to serve your point does the genre injustice. these shows having reboots after so long have been huge for the magical girl genre, which isnt "dead" just diversified.

[@adamoutrage6597]

There's also Yuki Yuna.

[@hiraidiamond5933]

Yes.

[@chainsofscarlet9054]

@@adamoutrage6597 perfect example.

[@constellationary]

@@adamoutrage6597 except yuki yuna was bad :(

[@Firehawk376]

@@adamoutrage6597 And while it's over now, Symphogear was a thing. Actually, fun story, both Symphogear and Madoka are directly descended from a previous genre-defining work, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha (the first two or three seasons at least, we don't talk about seasons four and five). Symphogear is Nanoha by way of Gurren Lagann or Kill la Kill, while Madoka is Nanoha by way of... I don't know, Evangelion? Death Note? If you want to get really technical about it, Symphogear is where Nanoha's VA cast went, while Madoka is where Nanoha's production team went.

[@world0felegance]

I think people also forget that the original Sailor Moon was pretty dark like all of them died except Usagi

[@CorralSummer]

Compared to some of the other "tragical girl" anime (as you call them) Madoka wasn't really trying to be "different" or at least not fundamentally. Gen Urobuchi when he wrote the script wasn't trying to give some sort of meta commentary on the genre. He was just writing a magical girl story in his way. And at the end of the day Madoka is still, like magical girl stories before it, about a girl saving the world. And even the darker aspects honestly aren't all that abnormal for magical girls. While definitely no where near the level of Madoka (usually a few were close). Just a year earlier, Heartcatch Pretty Cure aired and in it one character has depression because the fairy partner of hers literally fking died. Sailor Moon too had some shit go on in it (and apparently if Takeuchi had her way it would have been a fair bit darker). Madoka bumped it up to 11 for sure, but it past shows had some of these aspects.

[@birdiebancha910]

I think what a lot of people miss as well is the fact that PMMM takes HEAVY inspiration from kamen rider ryuki, with several emotional pieces and structural points being incredibly similar. Considering kamen riders roots is like, pretty far removed from magical girl shows concepts outside of transformations, it's no wonder people who had never heard of ryuki thought PMMM was doing something new... Lol

[@wormflavoredskittles6395]

YEA!! there is some real dark aspects in magical girls! the cardcaptor main cast goes through a lot at such a young age- and smile! precure has a lot of dark/upsetting scenes cause it plays into the "its okay to cry" and "you will be okay" messages! Madoka just has an emphasis because it comes so early on and is geared towards older people than those shows (and yk, thats how the creator wrote it)

[@feha92]

As much as I consider madoka _the_ epitome of a dark magical girl show that isn't just snuff-porn, I always bring up the point that it was never first, and not even the darkest. And yet it did some things differently _and_ well enough to take its spot. What it did (aside from accidental good timing for its release by not being 5 years older), which allowed it to stand as a memorable masterpiece that is both genre-defining and revolutionary, is not exactly something singular or well-definable. But if I were to point at something in specific despite that, I would definitely point at the soundtrack. Not only were they great, not only did they sound somewhat alien to the genre, not only did they set the tone and mood expertly, not only were they very unique, but they also were expertly paired to shifts in the story, and overall worked really well as leitmotifs with plenty of versions carrying different emotions. Add to that the unique artstyle, the way the party never was unified and always at odds and antagonistic, the way it downplayed the darker themes early on only to pull the rug extremely suddenly early on, the consistent faustian themes, and more, and it is no wonder it stands out when combined into the sum of its parts. It was memorable, well-timed, and always held the norm at a superficial arms-length (through said art and music).

[@starlesssu]

yea i remember being shocked watching nanoha and seeying her talk about how she was hospitalized cus of overuse of mana while saving the world. that image of her laying in the hospital kinda shocked me back then

[@kittenmimi5326]

Right madoka magica isnt dark edgy shit its still a magical girl show at its core and message of madoka magica is that there is always hope...

[@YusSuh]

As someone that cherishes Madoka Magica a lot, I have to say Magical Girl Raising Project isn't actually that bad after you get past unmarked.

[@PsycheTrance65]

I personally thought unmarked wasn't too bad itself either. But maybe it's because the only tragic mahou shojo stuff ive watched/read is Madoka, MGRP, and Yuki Yuuna is a Hero

[@YusSuh]

@@PsycheTrance65 unmarked isn't bad at all I like it a lot, but the Restart chapters to me are amazing.

[@PsycheTrance65]

@@YusSuh oh hell yeah, Restart slaps! Currently still working my way through Limited and while it's interesting I don't think its as good as Restart yet.

[@maourazonica5945]

I think on a technical level, it has some of the best fights. The mechanics are great, well thought out, and exceedingly consistent. Like what I say about it is it does quirks far better than BNHA ever did. But gonna honest, it's probably the format, but there are few characters I truly care about so I kinda put it on hold around vol 8 when we got to another 'side stories for everyone' volume. Much as I am interested in the overarching plot. Favorite arc for me has gotta be... forgot its name, but I thibk it's the Limited one? SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT Either way, the one with Tepsekemei. She has my favorite character concept out of anyone, and it was executed very well as well. I also like how the real heavy hitters just duked it out. And they all died. I think it rly illustrates what I like about fights in this series, they make sense and being the strongest doesn't make you immune. It's also rly fun like at the start of volumes to theorize on who's going to be the strongest, and then having ur expectations flipped on their heads. Limited also illustrates that the best with Archfiend Pam. Either her or Tepsekemei are my favorite characters in the series. Pam died too soon. I do like the lethaloty of the series, but Pam was too cool to die. Anyway, I saw Pam's description on the opening pages, and I thought mid combat oriented magical girl. 4 extra limbs does sound very useful in a fight, but nothing Top Tier. Oh was I wrong. I didn't think "using her wings to fight" meant her wings are a supermaterial that can morph into any shape and any substance. That is insane. Fuck you Rain Pow for killing perfection.

[@AlineDreams]

The deal with MGRP is that not only they gotta bend the rules of semantics to use their powers to their fully potential, but it also got political intrigue that literally rivals some of the best Gundam seasons out there. And much like Gundam, it lets us know that WAR SUCKS. But it also gives us the survivors trying to live with their trauma and actively attempting to rebuild their lives, which is a bittersweet yet hopeful tone (meaning they didn't miss the memo).

[@vivisheepy5485]

I don't disagree with all the points made here, but I get the impression that your experience with magical girls outside of Madoka is pretty limited. I think this would've been more compelling if you made more direct comparisons to shows that came out before and after Madoka.

[@hl8138]

guy literally hadn't heard of tokyo mew mew

[@snowblanc1678]

Honestly I was thinking “what about princess tutu” the entire time

[@hiraidiamond5933]

Honestly I should've known this video wouldn't be all that as soon as I realized this was a man speaking

[@lunatickoala]

There's also the Precure franchise which is still chugging along pretty much unchanged. There are also series like Waccha Primagi and Mewkledreamy in the traditional magical girl genre that the seasonal and isekai audience misses. These series generally air in the morning on weekends and are aimed at young girls. What happened was that at some point, the magical girl genre picked up a secondary demographic separate from the young girls it was originally aimed at and a subgenre developed. These series were aimed at a more otaku demographic and aired in late night timeslots. One of the early examples was Lyrical Nanoha and the director of that series was also the director of Madoka Magica. The demographic watching that subgenre overlaps fairly heavily with the demographic that watches seasonal and especially isekai anime so it's not so much that Madoka Magica destroyed the magical girl genre but rather just the otaku-oriented subgenre. SAO kickstarted the isekai bubble a year after Madoka Magica and the audience basically migrated over. This was only an offhand mention in the video, but I don't think the mecha genre really went away either. Rather, mecha and sci-fi was overrepresented among the series that were imported into the US in the 80s and 90s so English speaking audiences thought of mecha and sci-fi as being a bigger part of anime than it really was. It's just that now it's properly represented. Last year, Gundam sales surpassed 100 billion yen annually for the first time so the franchise is still going as strong as it was. Plus, in Japanese, "mecha" doesn't refer to giant robots specifically but to mechanical things in general (Gundam for example is a "real robot" anime while something like Mazinger would be a "super robot" anime) and what's happened is that many works have switched to showing more realistic vehicles or on the flip side mechamusume rather than giant robots.

[@minervaowl8298]

Yeah I was hesitant to watch this because already when I started watching the video I was like there is a lot inaccurate info. I feel like he thought of this topic based on his opinion without any research on the magical girl genre. Like actually watching the shows.

[@KiranasOfRizon]

Funny thing is, Madoka Magica wouldn't even be the first anime I'd say that subverted magical girls. I distinctly remember watching a slightly older anime called Jubei-chan. It's not super dark like Madoka Magica, but it does flip the genre on its head in one way: what if the magical girl didn't want to be a magical girl? What if she actively rejected every attempt to get her to transform and go fight some bad guy, but the bad guy won't relent until he gets to fight her. And once they've made it clear that they aren't taking no for a fucking answer, she puts on an eyepatch, turns into a badass swordswoman with the most stoic "I'm not taking anyone's shit" face, and kicks their ass in a minute.

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Stuff like this is why I unfollowed and unsubbed from angry joe. It’s nearly a two-years-old anime. Get the fuck over it.

[@cardboardtubeknight]

It’s not about doing it first. It’s about what got attention doing it

[@kurokurochromey-chan1712]

Mahou shoujo anime isn't dead. PreCure is one of the top-selling franchises worldwide. Even Meguca at its height couldn't reach Smile PreCure's sales

[@PurpleMoon799]

really? thats crazy.

[@agreenr6915]

First exposure to the tragical girl was Wonder Egg Priority. After seeing Madoka you can almost see the 1:1 inspiration from the age of the characters, the vibrant artsyle, the heavy theme (WEP's being teen suicide), not so benevolent benefactor to the trippy representation of evil. Unfortunately unlike Madoka they dropped the ball at the end

[@CardamomYGO]

I wanted wonder egg priority to be the worthy successor of Madoka. Guess I'll keep waiting.

[@swordswinger395]

WEP's ending took the ball, revealed it to be an alien spaceship all along, and launched it into a parallel dimension.

[@agreenr6915]

@@swordswinger395 and then proceeded to say "deal with it" like an early 2010's MLG meme

[@danielleanderson6371]

WEP is such an iconic case study of why you should always, always, ALWAYS underpromise and overdeliver. Better to surprise your viewers with how cool your thing is than to run out of money with like a million weird, loose plot threads and have to do not one, but TWO recap episodes.

[@agreenr6915]

@@danielleanderson6371 That's what was great about when it first came out. You'd just see random posts of this cute girl with 2 different brightly colored eyes and you were just instantly interested. Of course no one would tell you what it was cause much like School-live it's better to leave it a surprise then boom animation like an acid trip. Second episode you still don't know exactly what's going on but there's more cute girls

[@1wayroad935]

*Laughs in Symphogear and Precure*

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

Don't make me sing the beef strogonoff song.

[@Ziffelzoovop]

I remember watching Madoka Magica with a dear friend of mine, back around 2012, and we got most of the way through with just two or three episodes left but the night was late and I went home saying we'd finish watching it together the next time we hung out. Perhaps rather fittingly for the dark themes of this anime, he very suddenly died shortly after that. I never got the courage to finish watching it because it was something we were supposed to do together. But now I think maybe I should watch it again, finish the anime he so excitedly wanted to show me.

[@flavafee]

i say go for it. if you liked where it was going, i think the ending won't let you down. it might even become something you'll able to share with your late friend in a way. sorry for your loss

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Bruh just make a video saying this show was ass what is this documentary shit LOL

[@ShinyStarriNite]

You should give it another try! For you and for your friend, may he rest in peace.

[@sarahsault6494]

Princess Tutu was before this and toed the line of the bittersweet first. However, this was covered up not by friendship power (barely even MAKES it) but by the focus on ballet, the concept of story, and the original form of the girl is a duck.

[@alpha8here]

Big fan of Madoka Magia. The suffering is real

[@b1ackgamma]

you know it only occurred to me on the 2nd watch that selfless wishes are imbued with bad luck or a terrible fate and the most selfless wish ever made, became the plot of the entire show

[@alpha8here]

@@b1ackgamma interesting! I never thought of this. Very clever deduction, fellow human! Truly!

[@spaghetti5914]

meguka is suffering

[@alpha8here]

@@spaghetti5914 Madoka Meguka!!!

[@rafaynoman1180]

OP: I'm above decapitation jokes. Also OP: Headless Mami falls like a headless sack of headless potatoes, headless.

[@akun50]

Hate to say this, but the "Tragical Girl" started much earlier, it just wasn't acknowledged as a sub-genre at the time. Go Nagai's Cutey Honey might've been more formulaic when it started back in the 1970s, but the New Cutey Honey and Re: Cutey Honey series were much closer to the current "Tragical Girls" before Madoka came out. Just a warning, though, Go Nagai wasn't shy about showing nudity.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

Go Nagai was a man who stopped at nothing and let no boundaries go un-pushed. He was a madman who made the world a brighter place with his boundless creativity.

[@wormywave2220]

For those who want a magical girl show that strikes a good balance between classical stuff like Sailor Moon and Cardcaptor Sakura, and darker subversions like Madoka, I cannot recommend Princess Tutu enough (yes, I know the name is stupid, but please hear me out)

[@shrekfrog]

i was supposed to watch princess tutu after my friend recommended it some time ago. wasnt on netflix and ended up watching madoka instead, but i finally picked up princess tutu. im really enjoying it and cant help but recommend it as well despite the funky title haha

[@twilightgeneral777]

One hundred percent, Princess Tutu is a masterpiece

[@midnightwalkers8077]

I was looking for a comment For this show it’s definitely a hood mix of the both.

[@Commenter839]

While we're at it, I'd also like to bring up Nanoha. It was pretty much my dark magical girl show before I saw Madoka

[@elyaequestus1409]

I recently rewatched Princess Tutu and it was among the wildest, most outlandish BS (A SNAKE IN BALLET CLASS LIKE WTH) emotionally sincere takes on story telling, love and following your propose while also actively rewriting fate in the form of a duck that can tranform into a ballerina and her power is to emotionally connect with the world around her. Wth. And it is age appropiate, well explained, well written, funny and managed to deliver. Most importantly. Ahiru never got her pointe shoes. It is what she wanted. But not what she needed and needed to do what gave her forfillment, not just daydreaming. And goddamn it, that was a message which wasnt lost on adult me.

[@Toonfish_]

16:43 I noticed that's how it works with all genres in media. A genre becomes popular, everyone and their grandmother replicates it until it becomes stale and afterwards the best elements of the genre get extracted and incorporated across the entire medium. Another example of this is roguelike/lite video games. Isaac made the genre blow up, for a few years everyone was making them and now it has tapered off a little but roguelike elements that work really well are being incorporated into all kinds of games. Brilliant video btw, subscribed! :D

[@phosspatharios9680]

I wanted to say this, but you said it much better that I would

[@liamwhite3522]

Not quite a genre, but a plot point that is now surging to the forefront is the concept of a "multiverse". Even though the comics are no stranger to alternate universes and said universes interacting, the MCU has gone all in on the idea that we should care about What If stories, and alternate spidermen, and multiverses of madness, etc.

[@RGC_animation]

With the rise of indie and mobile games, video games have become the primary target for copying popular genres, your video game better not be creative, or else if it blows up, get ready to get copycats for the next decades to come.

[@TONADRIEL]

@@liamwhite3522 it's an intersection between what gets people interested & what is most marketable. it seems like it's natural now for popular media to mix with one another, like stranger things becoming popular & mixing with dead by daylight, & also the behemoth that is fortnite. it feels like the rise of the multiverse is a half-assed in-universe excuse for these things existing (not including when it's done for actual story reasons). idk anything about spiderman but from the outside looking in it feels like the whole spiderverse exists as a way to market spiderman to newer generations & trying to branch out & attract as many communities as they can. ballerina rock band spiderman... mecha anime spiderman... early cartoon spiderpig. like jesus

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Dude, it’s 2022, get a life and a get a grip. Stop trying to make long documents comments from 2013 anime into an identity. You’re just sad and pathetic.

[@clearandsweet]

I really appreciated the writing and production values on this video, however, I think I have not only the right but the obligation to be the "well, actually" guy on your facts, assumptions and conclusions. I think what's especially hurtful is that you're relatively close to the truth, but not researched or in tune with the genre enough to fully speak on its macro trends. For example, you broadly state that Madoka Magica inverts genre tropes. This is BROADLY true, it does do this for dramatic effect, but it does them only in certain tropes specifically. Urobuchi (the writer) plays a number of them straight and for good reason. Some are adverted entirely. I go over the nuance of most of them in my content, and doing so in one 18 minute video is surely impractical, but still. It's really wrong and hurtful to the show to say it COMPLETELY inverts all tropes. There are many other generalizations or outright spurious claims like that Magical girls were on their decline until 2011 and PMMM from their heyday around 2000. I nearly turned the video off because that's so wrong. Heartcatch Precure aired in 2010 ffs! Nanoha crushed the entire late 00's. Shugo Chara! Your generalization also hurts your claims when talking about what you've deemed "tragical" girls. Again the general gist of "creators took away the wrong mesasge from PMMM's success" is definitely broadly true. Certainly there _was_ a post-Madoka blowback of trashy violent magical girl shows. And in some way Madoka's statement on the genre has led to it being relatively hard to say something provocative about the genre, or do so with skill. However things like Looking for Magical Doremi, Space Patrol Luluco and Wonder Egg Priority demonstrate that not only is there room to operate within the genre through different angles, there's still people out there making GOOD magical girl shows with fresh takes. And if you want traditional magical girl warrior love and justice and compassion and monsters of the day, there's PLENTY of that as well. Finally, the conclusions you draw regarding capitalism just don't follow logically. Girls buying plastic trinkets is still a market, and something like Waccha Primagi is now competing with Precure for it. Thirty year old fans of magical girl shows are buying Sailor Moon merch or pulling the Symphogear gacha, not rushing out to buy Spec Ops Asuka or Magical Girl Site shit. And the male otaku consuming idol moe is so unrelated as to be spurious, honestly. You've constructed a narrative and forced reality into it, but it's only partly or not at all the truth. I wouldn't be posting this if I literally didn't have hours of discussion about these things in videos and panels of my own.

[@gustavo555tani]

I noticed that this happens quite frequently when people talk about magical girls post madoka, There a lot of magical girl shows that often get ignored, hell, Symphogear and yuuki yuuna are pretty big and long piecs of work, on top of the precure-like genre of mahous. Its like, just because we dont HEAR about new big magical girl stuff making the waves, it doesnt mean its not popular in its niche, I think an important aspect, is that magical girls were also damn popular BEFORE sailor moon....in japan....while being almost a completely different kind of show, thanks kenny lauderdale for that bit of knowledge.

[@talzaenvy]

! I agree it's always sad to see mahou shoujo wittled down to only a few popular series

[@TheKid377400]

We also got Revue Starlight in 2018, which has a really devoted fan base!

[@nic0a206]

it's funny how when people are talking about madoka, they act like sailor moon didn't have magical girls dying on screen like 15 times, melting corpses, suicide and sexual assault in it.

[@alexpercent]

Or Minky Momo

[@povilzem]

The soundtrack was absolute banger. Kajiura Yuki is a magical girl in her own right.

[@Electrosa]

I think this is why I - and so many others - enjoyed Symphogear so much. It's got its fair share of tragedy and Bad Things Happening To Cute Girls, but it's also simultaneously a fun, easy to follow, musical romp where we punch out god at the end. It struck a good balance, and the key point was that that balance undeniably skewed towards the pre-Madoka tone for magical girls. I say this as someone who is in complete agreement that Madoka was a cultural touchstone and one of the best anime of all time.

[@whitemoonwolf13]

Symphogear was fantastic and too many people sleep on it. I really enjoyed how it was a blend of magical girl, mecha and idol. The swan songs were haunting.

[@godhand291]

Symphogear & Nanoha

[@Utrilus]

I couldn't get into it. The first season is incredibly sod breaking with all those inconsistencies and stuff happening 'just cause'. Like in the early episodes a girl running away from the monsters.... and the monsters just waiting for her to navigate through the city and climb up a water tower and stuff. Like they just passively wait in front of her or beside her to do stuff for her to get in position.

[@clemenscohn7371]

@@whitemoonwolf13 After the incredibly terrible attempt at a "rage" moment in s1, the series lost all credibility. It was a poor joke for literally anyone who do not know how to deliver punchlines. Absolutely disgusting.

[@whitemoonwolf13]

@@clemenscohn7371 wow that is some harsh feelings. ruined the series? seriously? there's like, 4 seasons. what was so disgusting about it?

[@CleaverMama]

2 minutes in and mans just hit me with "You can describe magical girls and jojo in basically the same way" Not a sentiment I expected to hear but damn if I can't get behind it

[@Violentinthedaylight]

Madoka didn't kill the 'magical girl genre'. I'd say that the American Anime industry's responsible for this viewpoint due to their refusal to license any magical girl series geared towards younger audiences in the past decade. Part of the reason why Madoka Magica has been able to reach mainstream popularity isn't just because it's a "dark and edgy" MG series. Partly it's because, unlike its predecessors, the series wasn't subjected to an edited English dub or having its release 3-4 years after its initial release. The series was given a simulcast, which made the show accessible when it was first released. Then it was given an uncut English dub, which allowed dub watchers and sub watchers to have the same experience. In comparison, a lot of older MG dubs were edited. There were exceptions, but the most popular dubs were vastly different from their OG versions. Madoka was spared because it was aimed at older audiences; hence it was able to get a proper dub. And having the series released while the iron was hot helped gain even more appeal in the West. As for the rest of the MG genre: no, it wasn't on life support before Madoka came out, nor has it died. If there's a decline in content, it's possibly because the kids' anime scene has changed to support franchises instead of releasing newer, smaller series released each year. And beyond Japan, you have other countries releasing a variety of different MG shows through the late 2000s and 2010s: Winx Club, Miraculous Ladybug, LoliRock, Mysticons, Flowering Heart. W.I.T.C.H. etc. I think people who insist the MG genre was 'dying before Madoka came along' say that because The US wasn't bringing any newer MG content to Americans. It's a pattern I've noticed while looking at the mid 2000s-2010s MG series, especially those geared towards kids: shows targeted at younger audiences are either unlicensed or if they do, their dubs are never released or never finished: * Tokyo Mew Mew and Ojamajo Doremi were dubbed by 4KIds, but neither series were completed. Doremi only lasted one season, and MMP lasted 26 episodes. * PriPara and Mermaid Melody were licensed, but neither had their dubs released. Idol Time PriPara has been licensed, but it serves has the fourth season of PriPara. * Pretty Cure is the biggest MG franchise in the world, yet it has struggled to gain a Western footing. The franchise has had three Western English dubs, with only 2 available for streaming (Futari Wa's dub was never given an American release). And even then. both Glitter Force dubs are heavily localized and have skipped episodes. Even though we have simulcasted content nowadays, the first one came in 2020, possibly because COVID messed up the Anime industry (and why aren't they streaming in Europe??). The majority of the franchise is still unlicensed, and we haven't had any English dubs since 2017. Even the European shows were screwed over at times: LoliRock never aired on TV, Winx Club was screwed over by NIckelodoen, and Ladybug has a toxic-ass fandom filled with hate watchers. This is why I think people say Madoka saved the MG genre: after Madoka, America began licensing other mature MG series for older audiences. THESE shows got simulcasts, dubs and physical releases. THESE became the newer MG content Americans insist are the future of the MG genre, despite kids' shows existing. And if a kids show is licensed, depending on how they're handled people might not know if their existence because they're not given enough focus. Like, how many of these people have ever seen or heard of Creamy Mami or Fancy Lala? How many know that some Pretty Cure content is streaming on Crunchyroll? And whenever people as on Reddit which shows are appropriate for young girls, why doesn't anybody bring up the kid's content streaming in America? (5 Pretty Cure seasons, Kiratto Pri Chan Season 1, Waccha PriMagi). it also doesn't help when you have people INSISTING that 'MG shows don't sell in the West" whenever somebody asks why a certain MG series isn't streaming in the West. So no, Madoka didn't ruin or revive the MG genre. It has generated newer content, but a majority of these newer shows are aimed at teens and young adults. It also makes me curious how Japanese fans feel about this, as this seems like a Western perspective of the MG genre.

[@animeangelgirl100]

good write up

[@Violentinthedaylight]

@@animeangelgirl100 Merci. 😀

[@davidgusquiloor2665]

W.I.T.C.H. was such a good show, i wish it actually got another season. Also your points about how this kind of shows were brought to the american public is something that should have been explored in the video, when i heard that mahou shoujo didn't suffer the same fate shonen did in the dubs i could only wonder how deep the research actually was.

[@Violentinthedaylight]

@@davidgusquiloor2665 I think a third season was planned, but it was canceled. I agree. It could serve in showing how kids' content is treated different than young adult content, with MG shows being a good example for examination.

[@Sungod77777]

Im still not over nickelodeon ruining Winx Club that show was my childhood-

[@IronicHavoc]

"It destroyed a genre I'm not actually that familiar with"

[@kurootsuki3326]

loll

[@CastiellaXIV]

The nier soundtrack piece at the end actually reminds me of how similar Nier and Madoka Magica live in my head. They’re both slight subversions on their genres and included lots of suffering but both series have this overwhelming message of hope and humanity yknow? They’re definitely my favorite series’s EVER and they truly mean so much ❤ Good video btw I really liked it! If you haven’t seen Revolutionary Girl Utena before, I HIGHLY recommend it!!! It is very similar to Madoka Magica but way before it’s time 😊

[@Electrosa]

If you're a Nier fan, I'm going to give you the obligatory Yuuki Yuuna Is A Hero plug - you'd love it! It's a series that starts off pretty obviously trying to ape Madoka like a ton of mahou shoujo from that era did, but it QUICKLY comes into its own and becomes something great. Most relevant to you, however, is that Keiichi Okabe composed for the show's soundtrack and brought Emi Evans with him. Straight up Nier music in this anime. Give it a try!

[@CastiellaXIV]

@@Electrosa oh my GOD wait really!? It’s been on my to watch list but Im definitely gonna check it out! Thank you ❤️

[@Electrosa]

@@CastiellaXIV Yes! :D You're most welcome, I hope you enjoy!

[@themysterfox8695]

Madoka Magica is The Watchmen of magical girl anime,thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

[@HikariAhri]

Honestly, I'll always remember the day my group of friends sat me down to marathon Madoka Magica blind. I had no idea what was coming and only had what I got from the promotional images they showed me to rope me in and boy, at the tender age of 18 I was not ready for what this show had in store for me. I only knew Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, Tokyo Mew Mew and at that point Shugo Chara (which was my obsession for a long time while it was coming out). But theres the thing - as much as I enjoyed and came to love Madoa, that was enough. I didn't want to look for another version of it after. I think that's why I wasn't aware that there were other shows that followed the formula deliberately to try and ride the wave of success Madoka created. I do have this newfound craving for a show that evokes similar feelings with dark themes and high stakes, but definitely want it to feel original at the same time. I get bored easily if I recognize a plot too easily and if I know it's a copy of Madoka, I'll lose interest quickly. So while I know I can't relive that first time I saw it all those years ago, I hope to find something to ignite that same excitement, but hopefully something created from the hands of the those who grew up with the magical girls who came before.

[@TheMenasaur]

I think I may be misreading your initial argument, but the implication that the Magical Girl genre did not contain homoerotic themes during the 90s is simply false. You seem to claim that Tokyo Mew Mew, Sailor Moon, and Cardcaptor Sakura were the 'good mahous' and that the post-millennium shows were trying to poorly copy them. While this isn't necessarily an incorrect reading, I think that you did not do sufficient research on these three shows. Each of them contains Sapphic characters, and indeed, Card Captors and Sailor Moon both contain canonical male on male romance. Minto/Zakuro in Mew Mew is an immensely powerful storyline, with Minto confessing her love to Zakuro during a major battle. Two of the Sailor Scouts are lovers. You said that these shows received very little censorship in comparison to shounen, but that is also simply not the case. All three of these shows were sanitized for Western release, and the entirety of TMM season 2 was left undubbed because of its inextricable mature themes. The first season ALSO contained mature themes, but those mature themes were cut from the Western release. The same thing happened to Sailor Moon. Card Captors was an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SHOW in North America, with more of a focus on Xiaoran in the dub because they wanted to appeal to young boys with the western release. They also cut Tomoyo's crush on Sakura from the dub, which was canonical in the Japanese release essentially from the first episode. Xiaoran also has a crush on Yukito in addition to his crush on Sakura in the original release. Gay people didn't make the magical girl genre bust. Gay people have BEEN the magical girl genre since day one.

[@sm8741]

I think we’ve been missing big magical girl shows, there are barely any at all, and it’s been quite some time since Madoka. I think we need a Mahou shoujo show/manga that is dark, yes, but not as dark to a point where it’s not serious anymore (for example how Sailor Moon was: it had legitimate dark moments); and that it takes itself seriously, since what I’ve mostly seen lately are parodies. So yeah, overall great video x3!

[@heroicgangster9981]

Every anime fan needs to at least watch heartcatch precure one time in their lives

[@sm8741]

@@heroicgangster9981 EXACTLY THIS

[@rinina]

Sailor moon's manga is a must read for any anime only and anime fan in general, the starS arc gets so philosophical and dark but its still such a lovely story.

[@722blitz]

I’d love a mature magical girl show that actively and respectfully touches on struggles that a lot of younger girls/woman face while still having a consistent tone of warmth and hope. I think it would really be a great service to what magical girls were originally serviced to.

[@EveonaV]

@@722blitz I live in hope that Witch Hat Atelier gets a good anime adaptation, the manga has been superb. It's very different from the traditional magical girl formula, but has the same joy of those stories and lot of original ideas.

[@GummyDinosaursify]

The magical girl genre died because Shojo as a mainstream media died across the board in the 2000s with the introduction of the big Shonen like Bleach, Naruto, DragonBall Z, etc. Shonen shows quickly became the norm, the blockbusters, and took over the majority of anime production in both Japan and what we got to see dubbed/subtitled. Look at how many Shojo shows have been produced this year vs Shonen. Look at what is mainstream. Does anyone ever talk about the current big shojo series like Yona of the Dawn, Queen's Quality or Snow White with the Red Hair? Or even smaller series created by popular shojo mangaka like Idol Dreams? Shojo as a genre has become a forgotten thing outside of maybe Sailor Moon and Fruits Basket. It's not that Madoka Magica killed Magical Girl shows. Shonen killed Shojo and Madoka Magica just happened to lie at the tail end of that death.

[@janisir4529]

Most of shojo is just cliché romance anyway. Romance about adults for adults is much better.

[@minervaowl8298]

Literally I was thinking the same thing

[@Togekab00m]

@@janisir4529 you really can say the same thing about shônen, that it's just cliche action, and action about adults for adults is much better, so this really isn't an argument

[@janisir4529]

@@Togekab00m You are preaching to the choir, I hate shounen, it's cringe, and furthermore anime in general doesn't particularly do fight scenes well, save for a few exceptions, like Junketsu no Maria, which has historically accurate medieval combat.

[@Togekab00m]

@@janisir4529 honestly i agree with you here. onyyl shônen anime i really rate high is hunter x hunter which like utena (my fave shôjo) is a genre subversion

[@NimhLabs]

Surprised you never mentioned Minky Momo--typically listed as the first magical girl Honestly, Minky Momo and Madoka Magica kind of exist as matching bookends for the Magical Girl Genre. Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust and Momo to Madoka Oh yeah, knowledge of Minky Momo kind of changes how you view the death of the Magical Girl genre

[@setiem13]

The aim of the video isnt explaining the history of Magical Girl Genre. There are already several documentaries taking their time into explaining the evolution of the genre citing all the shows that appeared including ones that have been forgotten by new generations.

[@JustA-Person]

Actually if you are going by anime the first magical girl is Sally the witch and if ur going by manga it’s himitsu no Akko chan or Akko’s got a secret

[@HIMMBelljuvo]

Thought Sally The Witch was the first

[@JustA-Person]

Sally’s anime came out before Akko chan’s but if you are going by manga Akko’s manga got published first Sally just beat Akko to the punch when it came to getting an anime

[@BonaparteBardithion]

Minky Momo was a different brand of magical girl involving disguises and/or a double life to face mostly slice of life problems. This genre was still alive and well in the 90s. Sailor Moon (which included elements of the former with the disguise pen) was part of a different wave involving sentai-like teams and monsters of the week and that's the subgenre that Madoka Magica is de/reconstructing. It makes sense in this case to start with the '90s era shows for comparison. Also, I wouldn't really count Momo's tongue-in-cheek end the same as Madoka's deliberate grim theming.

[@MBeccaro]

I believe it's worth mentioning Magic Knight Rayearth, a magical girl manga/anime from 93 that (despite its over the top mexican style drama and low anymation quality) is the spiritual precursor of the "from hope to despair" jorney we see in Madoka. The last arc has a happier ending than the first, and the punch in the face only happens once at the end of season 1, but the idea of "life ain't sunshine and rainbow" using sunshined girls dressed as a rainbow was there. Edit after watching everything: that rambling at the end == perfect hahahah

[@manticore5733]

Madoka subverts on one level but in the end it plays out as a true MG show with the reset of the world to one that is more inline with Sailor Moon style universe; unfortunately the band-wagon shows forgot the MG sparkles and friendships and went heavy on the darkness. I suspect there are a lot of non-edgy MG shows that we hardly see in the west but TokyoMewMew remake is an example of a pure MG show. Immediately after Madoka there were a lot of quick adaptions of edgy MG manga - some so-so (Raising Project), some awful (Site) but that has mellowed now I think. Take a statement like "Evangelion ruined mecha anime" and you get the idea. I think Madoka told the world to sit up and pay attention when a new MG show hits the screen, it gave the industry the option to put money behind MG shows and... unfortunately the industry grabbed every edgy subversion manga they could find and flooded us with shows which were very hit'n'miss. Now it's settled down and I suspect there will be more MG shows turning up for the young girl demographic... if you look back there were only one or two such shows at a time over the years not like mecha shows, shonen filler-fests and isekai re-re-remakes which tend to clump together each season. So we had the bloom of edgy MG shows and now I also hope to see a more sparkly future for the genre... well, after I've watched 'Walpurgisnacht Rising' anyway.

[@tylertds]

"I suspect there are a lot of non-edgy MG shows that we hardly see in the west" Yes! There are many still ongoing or finished from a more recent time that stay true to what a pure magical girl is. Mewkledreamy is one I have not watched-- but it's so sugary sweet just based on the looks (and its from Sanrio!) that I'm pretty sure it's like most magical girl shows. It had two seasons, if I recall correctly. The PreCure series is a staple every year for Magical Girl fans that each incarnation has a different cast and theme! Its been ongoing since 2004, There's currently one Precure ongoing, even. Despite it being not at all as really popular with western audiences (unless counting the terrible Netflix dubs, Glitter Force, of two of the series.), Despite it getting 50-something episodes per year, it's actually a really great series. Lightning round: PriMagi an Idol & Magical Girl 2-in-1 combo. Sailor Moon Crystal-- an adaptation that follows the manga more closely that has some issues but is generally alright. There's also non-japanese Magical Girl series but that's another can of worms.

[@longlongman9351]

@@tylertds Synphogear was also a pretty big hit everywhere but the US since it had no marketing there.

[@BARMN89]

I don't think one series is a cultural shift, but I do think I know a series that can look past the event horizon of Madoka, and its Machikado Mazoku, or Demon Girl Next Door. I have seen DGND described as "Post-Madoka" and I think that is the perfect summary. It takes the inherit assumptions created by Madoka and then subverts THOSE. The main way is that it is a fluffy comedy series. However, the dark and depressing aspects of the series are still there, just under the surface. Nearly every character has trauma, but its mostly in the past and people have moved on. It stars our main character, A demon, who is light and friendly and kinda dumb, and pits her against a magical girl, who the more you learn about, becomes more and more interesting. It also has the kinda weird animal companions, but in this world, rather than a very abstract entropy evil force, DGND explores the idea of generational persecution, systemic oppression, incentive systems, and it can do this, while making the dumbest joke you've ever heard and you can't help but smile. I would really recommend DGND to anyone whos interested in looking at something past the influence of Madoka. Also the author Izumo Ito, also made a pretty funny Madoka Doujin that is worth checking out. Edit: also, its extremely gay, but not in the way you'd be used to from Madoka. Its gay in the way that its second season subtitle 2Chome) is the name of the historic gay district of Tokyo gay. Sometimes series have gay girls as a way to titillate male audiences, but this one, feels a bit more than that.

[@15_heidune72]

Is that the anime with Miku as a cameo in it?

[@teapartypenguin1353]

@@15_heidune72 No that's Dropkick on my Devil

[@15_heidune72]

@@teapartypenguin1353 ok.

[@BARMN89]

@@15_heidune72 No, its the show with the girl going ABABABA on a massage chair

[@hory-portier]

The way narration escalated at the end had awakened me... New anime fans grow up without ever being able to realize how the magical girl genre was perceived pre-madoka times. They can only imagine it. It feels a little sad, but this is how the generations differ. Each generation will grow up with something that will no longer be possible to perceive in the same way for the next generation. That makes all those shifts in times precious. Being there when Madoka aired and seeing the aftermath first hand is one of those magical moments that makes the history. Otakus of present and the future might research the topic if they want to know more, but we, the older ones, actually experienced it. And now imaging that it's the same with every generation. Do you remember the times without the internet? Without mobile phones? Do you remember the time when those started appearing and how it suddenly changed the world? How about getting excited to see what the future will bring us? Let's leave pessimistic thoughts for a moment and think of it for a second - Time's change. Sometimes in a bad way, sometimes in a good way. But with the amount of changes, there will always be the good changes around. Let's walk into the future with eyes open, to be able to tell the future generations, "I was there". (On the other side, the future generations might point out the bad changes with questions like "where were you when the westfold fell?", but that's yet another story)

[@bluealtas9976]

I'm sorry but this video lacks a lot of research in the magical girl genre. There's a lot of darker magical girl shows before madoka magica existed. I still remerber that episode of ojamajo doremi where the little girl with cancer died. Sailor Moon was censore a lot, princess tutu been a great tragedy, the original precure was an action packed introduction too magical girls. There's a lot of examples. (Sorry if I mispeled, english it's not my first language)

[@BirdAntlers]

In my opinion, Madoka's only (non-nitpick) crime was that shaft forced the creators' hands on continuing it past it's natural endpoint (as you said, money unfortunately rules all). The ending of the original series still moves me to tears, and the stifling feeling of hope and affection therein is crucial to that. Everyone calls PMMM a deconstruction-and it definitely does do that-but it's simultaneously such a fortification and a celebration of the genre, I think. So many times in the show, it's reiterated through Madoka that this is wrong; this isn't how it's supposed to be. They don't deserve this, and their wishes and sacrifice and humanity are precious, important things-and that hope and compassion are nigh-sacred. I didn't grow up on shoujo media. Madoka was actually technically my first anime, but I still understood what the show was trying to say even as a confused, struggling, angsty tween girl. The word that comes to my mind most when I think about PMMM is 'catharsis'; it's not a torture porn or something that crosses the line into irl discomfort for me (as opposed to something like made in abyss or NGE). PMMM does go to some truly dark places, but imo, any amount of darkness can be bearable as long as it has meaning and empathy-which PMMM brings in spades. Despite its fantastical nature, I feel it truly does capture the simple tragedy in life that bad things-awful things-happen to good people all the time. But I wouldn't find so much solace in it if not for the other message it ends on: that there's hope simply in being alive, and that in order to come out of despair we need to care for one another and lift each other up-like Madoka does in the final episode. I've watched it at least two times a year for nearly a decade now, and I only find myself resonating deeper with it's idealistic core as I march further into my 20s. Its objectively outstanding of course, but also the perfect cocktail of catharsis and comfort for me when life just keeps throwing punches. Rebellion has a lot of stuff in it I enjoy, and the argument can (painstakingly) be made that it fits in with the canon of PMMM, but I'll never accept it as spiritually canon. It takes that resounding final note of hope from Ep. 12 and inverts it, for no real reason than Shaft wanting to build a franchise. I think a simple spinoff movie about a possible end for Homura's arc is a fine idea; but only as supplemental material that doesn't clash with the existing themes (look up the interview about the original film ending). I won't write off the upcoming fourth film yet. I'm honestly just kinda glad there is one-for a long time, at least from what I saw, it was kind of the general opinion that Rebellion was going to be the last film. I sincerely hope they put an end this story that honors the original vision more. Maybe it'll lead me to finally come to appreciate Rebellion as a stepping stone to something more. Or maybe not; time will tell. Anyway, sorry to write a whole essay. I really enjoyed this video and I agree wholeheartedly that Madoka being the shot heard round the world was both a blessing and a curse. It's pretty much the Hunger Games equivalent for shoujo haha. I'll be looking out for more vids-this had great writing and momentum.

[@dschehutinefer5627]

Mmh, I must admit, I liked the ending for Rebellion if you see the scene of Madoka almost breaking out again as a sign that Homura's universe is fleeting and Madoka will eventually free herself given time. I also liked it in the way that after the bittersweet ending of the original where Madoka makes things a bit less horrifying, but girls are still sacrificed for the sake of the universe, albeit more peacefully, Homura essentially points at the audience and questions whether a Happy Ending can feel bad. Because arguably Rebellion is a Happy Ending where everyone is back alive, Kyubey is suffering for his crimes and no magical girls need to be sacrificed anymore. The only thing that makes it dark is Homura's obsession with Madoka sliding into self-loathing villainy and holding a brainwashed Madoka hostage, forever tarnishing their relationship. Given how this is the same girl who was contemplating killing Sayaka so that Madoka doesn't get weighed down by her suffering, I feel it's a logical step to assume that if Homura sees such a chance to get Madoka back, she would take it eagerly. I suppose it all depends on the next movie how it handles solving that cliffhanger.

[@BirdAntlers]

@@dschehutinefer5627 yeah that's totally valid

[@BirdAntlers]

@@dschehutinefer5627 Rebellion is such an interesting piece of media to me; its density leads it to so many different interpretations haha and all of them have individual facets that make them plausible. I honestly kind of hope the next one does the same (albeit while being more conclusive)

[@Cytrusy]

The original PMMM is just the creators speaking their mind, whereas Rebellion, not initially planned at all, is a conversation piece. Basically fans watched the original and wished for a "perfect world" and "Homura getting rewarded". The creators chose to respond to those voices, but did not budge on the fundamental issues - if you're ever given a perfect world, it is but a dream; if Homura gets what she wants, it can only be a perversion of Madoka's choices. One can definitely agree that the movie messes with an already perfect ending, but the implication that Homura's hold on Madoka must ultimately crumble keeps it on track for the series, and I am still looking forward to the final (?) Walpurgis movie.

[@BirdAntlers]

@@Cytrusy oh nice; I've never thought about Rebellion as a response to fans before

[@ghoulbuster1]

The genre evolved into a meme, that meme was compressed and released. Now the core message of "Hope that things will get better, no matter how bad it is." is seen on other genres and even outside the medium.

[@Aquilenne]

Reminds me of a novel that says something very close to that. "You said it would get worse." "It will, but then it will get better. Then it will get worse again. Then better. This is life, and I will not lie by saying every day will be sunshine. But there will be sunshine again, and that is a very different thing to say."

[@christinaknapp1980]

When you started talking about how the girls in Madoka Magica were basically being ordered to keep fighting regardless of the outcome, I realized that the show can also be seen as a meta-commentary on this genre. Kyubey represents both the audience and the viewer in how they force the magical girl genre to stay a certain way for their own wishes. The fates of Madoka and Homura, in both the tv series and the movies, represent the fate of the genre. There will be hope for the genre, but it will go through a few more dark points that may or may not shape its future. Either way, I look forward to what's to come.

[@christophereim4102]

I can tell from the video, this person dont watch a lot of magical girls.

[@darklight6921]

anime youtubers dont watch anime a lot of the time.

[@ShinyStarriNite]

I still liked the video but yeah, only 3 real mentions of magical girl shows, stating that dubs of magical girl shows decades ago were 1-to-1 (lol), and not much mentioning of any other "tragical girl" show before _Madoka_ aside from showing _Nanoha_ of the screen... no _Princess Tutu_ or _Uta Kata?_

[@issacthompson330]

You pointing out your description of most Magical Girl Anime also discribing Jojos caused me to start laughing so hard I forgot how to breathe.

[@aniflowers1998]

Only started the video, 3 minutes in and I had to comment about it becouse I found it to funny xD "Near one to one translation" Ah, yes, the super acurate translation of Uranus and Neptun beeing "cousins" and the Sailor Scouts totaly just taking a nap and not dying after exhausting their powers to their limits xD 10 out of 10, amazing translation work!

[@AlineDreams]

What are you talking about? The Sailor Moon manga was already pretty dark in the 90's and it literally revamped the entire genre; without Sailor Moon, we likely wouldn't have classics such as Precure or Tokyo Mew Mew. Also, traditional magical girl shows still exist alongside dark magical girl shows, as well as magical boy shows (as hard as the fandom tries to ignore them, magical boy shows exist and are here to stay... Kind of). The genre isn't dead, it just got more varied. I say this as a fan of all three aforementioned subgenres, of course. Because when a dark magical girl medium is done correctly, it can be an excellent social critique or even something akin to The Hunger Games. (Such as the Magical Girl Raising Project novels; the anime did a massive injustice in its adaptation and, since it only adapted the first book and adapted it POORLY, most people don't know about the political intrigue and social critique in it and only know it for its badly adapted murder game.) So, don't worry, the magical girl genre isn't leaving. If anything, the backlash of dark magical girl shows might have incentived some to create more hopeful and lighthearted ones (even if they're somewhat cynical at times because, well, we've had a healthy dose of cynicism in magical girl media since Minky Momo times). And if we're going to talk about edgy and violent/sexual magical girl shows aimed at men... Dang it, Cutie Honey has been doing it since the NINETEEN-SEVENTIES. And to be fair, it also helped define the genre as much as Majokko Megu-chan and Sally the Witch (both inspired by magical girlfriend shows such as Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie. By the way, the spinning transformations we see in Sailor Moon? Thank Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman for it).

[@AlineDreams]

P.S.: I refuse to talk about WEP and Magical Girl Site. I'm only gonna use good examples here. Even Fairy Ranmaru (our "tragical boy" anime) got the memo way better than those two shows (as much as the writing and plot both suffered from a bad case of confuseritis).

[@AlineDreams]

Another add-on: I'm going to watch the Tokyo Mew Mew remake because I have been told it actually IMPROVES the original while keeping the same relatively lighthearted tone of it. Does anyone else who watched it agree with this opinion I've seen circulating around?

[@doc.m.d.8870]

See I get what you're trying to say, but Tragical Girl™️ had been coming for YEARS before Madoka showed up. It was all just brushed under horror/gore or "different", but the elements were like all there. Revolutionary Girl Utena, My-HiME, Vampire Princess Miyu, Hell Girl, Rozen Maiden, Claymore, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha... All of these shows had every single marker of a magical girl series, but with a sad twist to it. Some real stakes, tragic life altering points, and dark stuff. Madoka was just a much more concentrated dose of what had previously been largely a simple tincture.

[@noahalcantar2431]

@doc.m.d.8870 Super Smash Bros otaku multiverse where it's a crossover between every Japanese videogame franchise and every genre of anime, even including the Magical Girls and Shonen battle genre

[@ephraimium6755]

Just rewatching the series this month and I must admit there are a lot of things that older fans tend to misinterpret about: - Sayaka's death used to be blamed on Hitomi for stealing her boyfriend or something, which I found to be blatant victim blaming. She's actually nice enough to acknowledge the relationship between Sayaka and Kyousuke, even go as far as giving the blue girl a chance to redeem her feeling to the boyfriend. Sayaka's inability to feel her true feeling was also a typo given how she was still able to express anger to the two scumbags dehumanizing women on the train. In fact realism and nihilism was the true culprit behind Sayaka's downfall. She could still express her feeling and have faith in justice just like before, but the reveal of the truth behind the magical girl system and her conflict with Kyouko's ideology made her start doubting about herself and her decision. Just like a depressed neet who look down on, Sayaka kept spiralling down in her reality that everything she had done before was for her self-satisfaction, trying to cope with her nihilistic by constantly hunting witches, thus allowing her to harm herself constantly in the process without her realizing it (in fact she even neglected the pain after Elsamaria's since she believed that her body was just an empty shell so she thought it's fine). - Kyubey was considered one of the worst mascot to exist in the anime histiry provided that he manipulated humanity for what he believed to be for the greater good of the universe. In my opinion he was more like a representation of humanity's prejudice. In Kyubey's eyes we're binded by a boundary called moral, in which inappropriate acts like being naked outside could be considered sins and thus must be avoided at all cost. Kyubey was a vile creature, he would use every tactics ever existed in order to achieve the maximum benefits in both short and long run, just like how corporations deceive their customers with all types of advertisement except legality wasn't a thing. To be honest Kyubey was more of a reminder about the weight of our deeds against the nature and humanity ourselves.

[@corrinflakes9659]

“One-to-one translation” yet we got Lesbians turned into Alabamians in Sailor Moons.

[@danyellemint2158]

Another day another person not knowing that Princess Tutu came out in 2002 and was the first dark magical girl. It’s fine. I’ll just be a silent Princess Tutu fan. Great video though. But PLEASE WATCH PRINCESS TUTU!

[@canebarnes2119]

Let me tell you, how much that scene hurt me. I was so happy to watch a new magical girl anime and also in middle school, a pure child. My heart dropped when her head was ripped off and I have ever since been cautious around anything magical girl. Twas a sad time...

[@Gordonfreeman551]

This video feels like a long lily orchard/Misanthro pony rwby vidoe. Did it really need to be that long???

[@robokill387]

@@Gordonfreeman551 yes.

[@Gordonfreeman551]

@@robokill387 no

[@felixrivera895]

Madoka Magika Still cared about friendship, compassion, empathy, and above all else determination on a fundamental level. It posits that even when you put these concepts to the test, throw them against the meat grinder of a cold, needy, and uncaring universe, they still come out the other side. The show kills, and implies so much more death and horror done to, multiple innocent young girls who would be protagonists in any other show just to get us to understand the scope of it's message. Then it reminds us that all it takes is one well aimed act of kindness, compassion, empathy, or even martyrdom to make a difference. Those that control and benefit from the system exploiting you would rather not explain what they are doing. To them it's obvious that you consented to a horrible deal, accepting minimum compensation when you should have though to ask those in power and with knoledge "What could I get from this?". The moment an individual gained the knowledge required to maximize her compensation, she performed the grandest act of compassion she could. Madoka Magika puts emphasis on the value of choice, reminds us that knowledge is a commodity that can inform that choice, and expressed that there is always a way for kindness to win. That message was just lost on the whole to anime as a market.

[@snazzydrew]

Magical Girls are AWWESOME! I actually feel like Madoka revitalized the genre... it did for me at least. Made me really appreciate the hope and heart that magical girls have.

[@Violentinthedaylight]

By the time Madoka premiered there were other MG coming out at this time: Pretty Cure and Jewelpet were established franchises, and shortly after Madoka's debut we had Pretty Rhythm and Aikstsu. We also got Mewkledreamy and the live action GirlsxHeroine series.

[@dtarchon]

You did not do justice to the most epic of magical girls - Nanoha. Nanoha befriending her opponents with overwhelming firepower is the stuff of legends. It rocks. Though admittedly she can't compare to Godoka in terms of raw universe bending power. Anyway Madoka Magica did NOT destroy an entire genre, and stands as it own as an exquisitely crafted story with unique artwork and inspiring music. It is one of the few animes worth re-watching for the story as you rediscover more and more of the plot elements that were hinted at the true nature of the show. The trope of "Magical Girls" was subverted to tell a very dark story contrasting with what we usually associated with Magical Girl shows.

[@NikoCat11]

I always said that, then you made a great video putting it on screen. Maybe we're all dead already.

[@TigeriPlaysGames]

your channel is super underrated, chief. great job on this one :D!

[@idixal1836]

I’m happy to see a video on this topic. I’ve long felt the same thing about Madoka Magica destroying the genre (by no fault of its own), but you definitely gave me some additional points to think about.

[@michaeljpatrick5335]

Imagine showing a scene/title card from Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, and not recognizing the Magical Girl shows went dark before PMMM.

[@HeavensDoor13]

You know, when you brought up the 12 episode run fact, I genuinely had to think about it for a moment. That's really a good point, because it FEELS like a show with more run time. The amount of information and action that happens in such a short span is something missing from a lot of adaptations, etc these days. Nice video. I can't believe you compared Madoka to Watchman, but you earned a sub. Cheers.

[@Auditor1337]

Its kinda funny how in the main series there's almost no blood, yet every single copycat turn their show into a gorefest.

[@zakbyington9619]

Fantastic video. This is something I've been telling my friends for years. You put it all so much better than I ever coul.

[@hibubgames7667]

Nice to see the comments are what I expected from a video like this, a lot of people talking about genres they don't watch.

[@Alynnaeva]

I miss watching magical girl shows. I like the semi-tragical girl genre best.

[@Dojafish]

Ok , so jojo is magical girls show . Got it .

[@kaguyan1234]

I've always dreamed of such appreciation for my favorite animanga a video exploring not only what the show had to give but what it also could've this video is just as much of a masterpiece as the show itself I can't thank you enough for this

[@stefancirovic983]

Such an amazing vid. Also scary how the Nier OST at the end fits in perfectly with Madoka lol

[@jdxanadu872]

Boy did I love Gen Urobuchi's Kamen Rider Ryuki

[@mugenno]

what an amazing video, with such strong and engaging thematics. i love madoka magica and was really impressed by your video essay. wish you luck!!!

[@SaintAngel_22]

Amazing video. Perfectly encapsulates my feelings and thoughts about the genre. Thank you so much for your work!!

[@Purp1e_]

The clips chosen for the background made video so much better, in the beginning nore casual bits of the anime were shown, when talking about how dark the show is dramatic scenes of the movie were in the background. And when talking about how well made the animations were you could see the most satysfying scenes. It honestly made the video way more interesting to watch

[@zdante1]

I remember the heat death that was Magical girls...but I'm sorry I have forgotten the soul

[@cwcpants140]

Madoka Magica gave me what i affectionately call the Madoka Effect. The Madoka Effect is when something masquerades as cutesy and light hearted (like Madoka Magica and Doki Doki Literature Club) and suddenly drops you into a uncaring void of brutality and horror. I myself plan on making some videos about the cosmic horror of both Madoka and DDLC.

[@ZarineBashire]

Aaand you just gave me a great idea for mixing and old genre with my new favorite one.

[@Growaen]

Thank you SOOOOO GD MUCH for goin into detail n such of magical girls. 😁👍

[@alishabutterfly3569]

"oversaturation leads to subversion but eventually subversion becomes the normal and then oversaturates itself"

[@Junosensei]

Criticism of this video: I've been a fan of the genre for a veeeeery long time, but 1) Sailor Moon and CCS were following in the footsteps of an entirely different type of magical girl genre that existed before them. Sailor Moon took heavy influence from Super Sentai and Cutie Honey. Less familiar to the West was also Wedding Peach. 2) It depends on the dub, but if we're talking about Sailor Moon and CCS, the dubs most people are familiar with are most definitely worse off for their edits and changes than those which affected the shounen genre (One Piece aside). They involved cutting several episodes down to single episodes, changing entire storylines, changing character development, removing same-sex couples and gender non-conformity, among other issues (Syaoran was re-written to occupy protag status alongside Sakura). 3) The video is missing so many steps leading to Madoka Magica. Around the 2000's, it's true that the magical girl genre became a bit of a trope, but again, it had already been one leading into the 90's. Tokyo Mew Mew was actually not as huge as you made it seem here (albeit it was definitely a star player of the genre in the West). Shows like PreCure, DoReMi, and the growth of idol shows carrying the same aesthetic also pushed the genre into and past the era of Madoka. But Madoka was one of an already growing trend of subversive magical girl shows like Pretear, Princess Tutu, Kannazuki no Miko, Nanoha, etc., which were themselves part of a trend of post-modern subversions in anime as a wholeーoften considered a pretty natural response to subculture trends as a whole. Madoka Magica is my favorite anime of all time. I was there when it first aired. I've seen it more times total that probably anyone else you know (I watched it 20+ times _before_ Rebellion came out and was part of an admittedly misguided and failed attempt to re-fan-translate the anime, as well as translate side material for the series). But while it definitely had a special impact on the genre, I do not see it as more than a single player on a road the genre was already heading down. I wouldn't blame it for anything except fulfilling the role of being one of the most widely-acclaimed and recognizable works on that road. That's my personal take, at least.

[@edtazrael]

Very interesting analysis. Thank you.

[@Drakenwild]

I loooove what you did with the ending :D

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

I don't think Madoka was as big a factor as people make it out to be. Love Live was a huge hit around the same time and idol shows took over as the main genre sold to little girls. Magical girl shows were always tragic and depressing just as an example of fucked up magical girl shows pre-madoka: Magic Knight Rayearth, Utena, Princess Tutu, the Cutie Honey franchise, Black Rock Shooter to name some of the more famous ones. I don't think the proportion of dark magical girls has gone up relative to the innocent ones at all. With a few exceptions I don't think many anime have taken inspiration from Madoka since it came out. Another thing is that a lot of current magical girl shows have diversified. A lot of idol shows double as magical girl shows. There's a lot of isekai that feature magical girl protagonists. There's Little Witch Academia which is just magical girls with pointy hats. The amount has certainly gone down since the 90s but when Madoka came out the genre was already in decline.

[@hl8138]

the only good comment

[@petereng1977]

You raise a good point. As I recall, Sailor Moon's first season ended with everybody dying, followed by everybody forgetting what happened, but at least they saved the world, so...yay?

[@Gordonfreeman551]

Dude, it’s 2022, get a life and a get a grip. Stop trying to make long documents comments from 2013 anime into an identity. You’re just sad and pathetic.

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

@@Gordonfreeman551 Lol, ok. Aki Hayakawa. Btw, are you an expert on being sad and pathetic?

[@Spectrevek]

I like your words magic puppet man.

[@shiruox_]

This was such a well produced video that i did a triple take when I saw you only had about 2k subscribers, actual amazing job and hopefully your channel will get some more recognition like it most definitely deserves

[@windwolf04]

Love the rant at the end. Lowkey made my day 😂😂

[@jonconnor0729]

To be blunt, people are giving Madoka Magica too much credit because of the shock value factor and its pretty much almost everyone's first exposure to the magical girl genre.