How many PBA titles could Chris Barnes have won? | PBA Bowling 2023

[@skidhookroll]

Due to him taking the collegiate route and amateur events, he didn't join the PBA until 28 or so. Had he done that 10 years earlier, he would easily have 10 more titles. He won a lot of money as an amateur in foreign events and High Roller tourneys and such. He was way more accomplished than any PBA rookie ever.

[@TRAXRIPPER]

FACTS! And it's not like his list of losses is to a bunch of scrubs! Just take this into account WRW Jr 47 Titles Weber 37 Duke 40 Bohn 30 Albuy 29 Voss 25 Monacelli 20 Barns 19 T Jones 20 Rash 17 Belmo 31 So 11 guys right there have won a total of 315 titles between them! They are all great players but think about how many really really good players that have not even had a chance to win 1 title because 11 guys have 315 between them! And that is not even talking about what the guys like Weber and them have won on the PBA 50 Sr Tour! So Barns has 19 take him off the list with his 19 and 10 guys STILL have 296 titles! There are only so many events! Many hopes and dreams have been Crushed over the last 30 plus years due to just 11 guys AND BARNS IS ONE OF THEM DREAM CRUSHERS! LOL Add in how many times these guys have been on TV period that knocked other guys out to even see the finals and now we are talking about what? Like double that if not triple 600 700 800 times between them all? It has to be at least 600 TV shows with 315 titles because we know damn well they have ALL LOST ON TV PROBABLY MORE THEN THEY WON! Now I gotta know and find out! Lol I'll get back with that answer in a few hours but anyone that wants to fact check my titles win list to these guys have at it! I'm pretty sure that as far as PBA TITLES I'm dead on at 315 with these 11 guys! THATS A STAGGERING AMOUNT FOR THAT SHORT OF A LIST! That's how GREAT THEY REALLY ARE AND BARNS IS STILL BOWLING! AND I ONLY PUT ONE 2 HANDER ON THE LIST! THE FIRST ONE! I don't have a problem with it but to me it just shows that THOSE OTHER GUYS WERE AND ARE SO GOOD THAT IT TOOK 2 HANDS TO BEAT THEM BECAUSE JUST EVEN UP WITH ONE HAND AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN HOLD THEIR JOCK STRAPS! And I left off some other great players that could push it to 400 titles with just a few name but I figured just 10 to put Barns up with that spans about 40 years says enough to make the point! HE IS NOT A CHOKER SCRUB AT ALL!

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

Less to no TV coverage in collegiate and amateur events? yes or no? I am not certain. Did not know his bowling history.

[@skidhookroll]

@@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq He won a tournament at 19 to get him on TV to bowl vs Roth, Holman and LIsa Wagner. He then bowled for Wichita State and big money amateur events as well as Team USA all over the globe. Not many of those events were televised nationally or even at all. But the guy was well known as a dominant player during that run.

[@austinowen3892]

@@TRAXRIPPER My man, stop yelling at us LMAO

[@thomasleonard9685]

I came here to say this but you covered it. He made a substantial amount of $ in megabuck events and other tournaments before he turned pro. Let’s say he goes pro out of college - 6 years earlier - I have to guess he wins another 5-10 trophies. Or if college players could bowl as many pro events as they do today? Hmmmmmm

[@jackperrett381]

I think you could say sort of the same with Sean Rash I feel like both Rash and Barnes are 30 title talents they just struggled on TV and Sean’s back issues didn’t help either

[@TXP9]

Also, Rash is one of the weakest players in terms of mental game, far worse than Barnes. He gets distracted easily, chokes on TV, and usually blames external circumstances for his failures (e.g. plastic bottles, background noise, opponents using urethane).

[@jackperrett381]

@@TXP9 Agreed. Barnes controls himself much better than Rash. I feel like Sean starts out red hot and he'll string like 5 in a row but then he gets too amped up and he can't calm himself down and he gets faster and faster. Then he starts missing spares and leaving splits and the match is over. Chris on the other hand is actually more clutch than people think. He is great at making great shots when he needs them most. Theres been many times on TV when Barnes needed a strike or a double to win the title and more often than not he delivered. I can't think of one time than Rash showed any form of clutch ability. When Sean is on he's going to beat you no question but when he's off, which he is more often than not, then you have a good chance at beating him

[@scotttaylor3072]

Maybe 5-6 more titles. You have to give him credit though for putting himself in the position to win as much as he has. You can’t win if you don’t get there.

[@CoachAshley1983]

I had to laugh when I saw this because Chris just made a comment about you on their podcast the other day...something along the lines of you not knowing what you are talking about lol Ironic that this video comes right after that... 😜 I will say, I do have to agree with you. Chris probably has more technical knowledge of the game than anyone & his physical game reflected that at the heart of his career. He is one of those players you always expected to see near the top, if not in the finals, but one you never wanted to place any bets on. Some players seem to struggle under pressure more than others and Barnes is definitely one of them. The 3-6-10 spare at the Masters is the first thing that comes to my mind, but it happened much the same in his early days on Tour. No disrespect to Barnes, I just have to agree that he's more than talented enough to have at least 30 titles.

[@therightlanebowling]

Haha I didn't see that. I haven't really watched their recent episodes. Which video was it?

[@CoachAshley1983]

@@therightlanebowling it might have been the one with Ogle, but if not, it was the most recent one with EJ on it

[@briguyinsi]

I was always thrown off w Barnes, and never really liked him, but man he had talent. Early on in his career in his prime, he was quite unapproachable and had an ego. Maybe underachieving humbled him a bit, and so it seems now in the backend of his career he’s actually very popular now among players and fans, which was not the case earlier on. I honestly think he should have had 30+ easy. Prob won’t get there on reg tour, but will likely add a lot on the PBA50 Tour. Side note and prob an unpopular opinion - I enjoy watching the PBA50 more than I do the PBA tour.

[@imtrex521]

watch Beef and Barnzy. You will warm up to him.

[@CoachAshley1983]

I agree! He is a lot more approachable now than he was in his early years on Tour. I always admired his talent, but just wasn't a fan. Fast forward to present day, I really enjoy watching the Beef & Barnzy show. Times & people do change.😊

[@OldSchoolBowler]

Excellent video and analysis. No fan-boy and not overly critical. I hope Chris gets a chance to see it. I think it's interesting that Tommy Jones, who is a good friend and rival of Chris Barnes, has 20 titles while Chris has 19. Tommy is a great bowler, for sure, but I wouldn't put him in the same class as Chris Barnes, even though he has one more title. And before I get hammered by Tommy Jones fans, I just looked up their championship round appearances. Barnes has 87 to Jones' 54.

[@CoachAshley1983]

I'm a huge fan of TJ, but I absolutely agree with this!

[@nothumbbowler1802]

I still remember b/f she won all her titles CDB lost the title match weeks in a row. She must have been on about 12 shows in a row without winning. Yeah, I think he should have won more, but with single game matches on TV, it's just not always the best who wins.

[@andrewweltlich9065]

I agree with everything you said in the video. Growing up aspired to be like Chris Barnes because I recognized how talented and brilliant he is. He definitely should have won more titles than he did. That being said, I do consider him to be somewhat of a choke. I remember him always losing when I would watch him on TV. I think of EJ Tackett in the same way. EJ should have far more titles than he currently does, but has consistently choked when bowling on television.

[@jakeyrunescape9219]

EJ choked and got a 2-4-6-7-10 split in the 9th frame in the Scorpion championship this year, Jakob then closed it out in the 10th

[@CoachAshley1983]

@@jakeyrunescape9219 yet he ended the week with a Cheetah title and a World Championship. He has 5 titles, including 2 Majors, this season. You can say he has struggled or "choked" in the past, but I'd say this season we are seeing a different version of EJ. One with a clear head, more experience, and has gotten the job done as of late. That Scorpion final could have easily gone either way. I find it odd that you will bash EJ in favor of a guy who has blown title after title for nearly 4 years. I think Butters is great, but let's be real...both Jakob and EJ have given away titles in their careers. They still have their best years yet to come.

[@Mikey-1990]

EJ did choke a lot in the past, but he definitely has shown especially this past season with five titles that he can get the job done. He has shown tremendous improvement in his mental game overall. This is just the beginning. He'll be winning a lot more titles.

[@louieatienza8762]

EJ is just streaky. He's won 4 titles in a year twice, and has five so far this year, including 2 majors. He also finished in the top three 8 times, and the season is only halfway done. He's had struggles in the past, but he seems to have learned from those experiences.

[@jakeschutz6342]

Comfortably places in the top 15 all time in terms of career, but easily top 5 or 6 talent wise given the amount of times he was on TV. You don't get on TV as much as he did every year for such a long period without being better than pretty much anyone else over a 40 game stretch of qualifying. 30 titles in my view was well within his reach. People also forget he came out on tour relatively late ( I remember seeing him bowling in the NBC shootout in the late 80s when he was still at Wichita State). He was an absolute top amateur and probably banked a couple of hundred grand from the early 90s till he went on tour full time in 1998-99. That era still had some very well paid amateur tournaments and high-roller events, and if you had the skills you could legit make some pretty good money without needing to be on tour full time.

[@BowlingCoachJustin]

I'd agree easy 30 Titles. He's that sort of talent

[@bowlingvanjapan4099]

One game matches that’s why. That’s the worst part of the pba let’s bowl 50+ games lead by a million and lose in a one game match for the title. I’ll say it again the championship match should be set up like tennis 3 sets of best of five. Take luck out of the championship match.

[@skiprockjr.6881]

I've made the argument that Chris Barnes might be the best of all time because of how he came back from his early struggles and still had the career that he did. Most bowlers wouldn't be able to come back from the heartbreaks that he had. I remember watching him just about every week in the early 2000's just waiting to see what kind of split he's gonna leave himself to lose by a couple pins in the championship match. He was like the Buffalo Bills in the early 1990's.

[@atbsigma]

Though Barnes did miss (or got unlucky) on TV a lot, his HoF induction is enough proof that he was as good as he was. And in fact still is. Yes he struggled on Tv but when it was his time, he did get those hits that eluded him many times before. See EJ Tackett as another example of one of the all time greats that could have won more on TV. Then compare to the PBA pros over the years that had all the talent but couldn’t win at all.

[@moonshinesonata_]

He should be in the 30-Range for sure

[@louieatienza8762]

I think folks have to remember that guys like Barnes and Patrick Allen and other rookies from the late 90s were making more money bowling megabucks tournaments and action than some of the PBA pros, one reason why they started on tour later in life. Barnes had the opportunity to win more titles, but that does not mean he could have or should have. Talent is only one component of winning. At that level, everyone is strongly talented. So what differentiates the winners are what's above the shoulders. And Barnes has had mental coaches in the past. His biggest talent is probably bringing out the best in other bowlers such as Haugen.

[@louisopperman3194]

Also agree, still rate him as one of the best, sometimes knowing to much of your own trade could be your down fall.

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

interesting comment. please explain.

[@louisopperman3194]

@@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq We know that Chris is great at the technical details of the game, and I think is that Chris sometimes overthink it, instead just relax to and bowl. But then again that is why he is a PRO I am just a armature bowling with old equipment and I have never and will probably never bowl below the lights on a Television show.. :)

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

@@louisopperman3194 oh yes the overthinking I remember him saying after he missed a spare or pocket "why did I move"

[@dreamerultra5306]

I like the video premise, very interesting points. Barnes came out older by about 6-8 years over the average PBA pro cutting his peak window. He also came in at the tail end of the power one-hander era ending in early 2000's. Around 2005, Belmo and Osku came out ushering in the high rev power games that have dominated the last 15 years. If Barnzy came out in the early 90's, younger and lower rev era, he easily wins 30 I believe.

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

what comes after high rev power bowlers. We do not have three arms so can't be three handed possibly using a foot? I did see a video of a person and pushing the ball, like a chest pass, looked like a full body spasm maybe that.

[@SirJoelsuf1]

That match against Haugen Jr was legendary. Made me a legit Haugen fan for a time. And this presentation isn't complete without the 5-7-10 Barnes left haha

[@parkerbohnn]

If there was no 8th or 9th frame he certainly would have won many, many more tittles.

[@bowlingvanjapan4099]

Walter ray made over 200 telecasts yet only has 47 titles yet we don’t call him a choker even though he did choke over 150 times on tv

[@yolomuffinsplease2303]

I’ve been loving your bowling videos please keep making them

[@ColemanMulkerin]

I agree he should have won more but he was bowling against WRWJr, Norm Duke, Pete Weber, and a number of other really talented players that were hot during his heyday. But that's not much of an excuse when you were considered the best at the time and at your peak.

[@AZDESERTGAMER]

first of all these people do not choke. THey have off days, but do not choke!

[@skiprockjr.6881]

That's not true. Del Ballard, Jr.'s, gutterball on his fill shot when he only needed 7 pins to win was a choke.

[@AZDESERTGAMER]

@@skiprockjr.6881 Not it was not. He had a bad throw

[@davewilson6548]

This is a stupid question. Chris won ,what he could win. He played the best he could at the time just like the bowlers he played against. Why do always have to put someone down to make us feel better ourselves.

[@CoachAshley1983]

Careful...don't hurt yourself climbing down off that soapbox!

[@ashe949]

My boy Barnes , deffo one of the greatest ever 🎳

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

he is like the dan marino of bowling. champions ships, awards, records, excellent stats, but now super bowl.

[@DCogs1]

Different era's. Belmo, Simo & EJ wouldn't be on the run they're currently on if they were in Barnes Era. Remember Barnes had to win against deeper fields that included the likes of WRW, Duke, PDW, Bohn, etc.

[@rikmcdik6662]

I think his very analytical approach to the game, and incredible knowledge, caused him to overthink in big moments. Unfortunately he earned the nickname “Choke Barnes” from that.

[@sawnose4775]

How many? As many as he did. If he could've, he would've, plain and simple.

[@powerwagon1897]

Everybody has already said the obvious reasons for Barnzy only having 19 titles......joining the tour late, tightening up on Tv etc. One other i would throw out is he was competing at the same time when WRW was winning a lot......also Duke.I was in the Dallas bowling scene in the late 90s - early 2000's, so i saw a lot of Barnzy. Also, I think I would put him in the same scenario as Greg Norman.....when he was in the finals, he got everyone's A-game because they knew he was the man. He was easily the best at reading the lanes and making the right adjustments........by a long shot. I used to not like him because he was sooooo cocky.....but he matured a ton and let people see what a good guy he really is. He has nothing to be ashamed of....he accomplished more than most.

[@brianspradlin8999]

He should have won several more. He missed several opportunities on TV against lesser players. Should have been in the 30 title club.

[@bobbyrobert5493]

What 87 tv shows 19 wins so his win rate on tv what 17 18 percent that's low even Walter Ray was close to 25 percent Norm (who was a friend before he went on tour) Parker Pete Mike Aulby and other greats was over 30 percent hell I think Earl's was close to 50 so yea mentally he would check sometime. Reminds me of Greg Norman in golf same kinda career

[@jeffreyhussey3043]

Never a Barnes fan early in his career, but warming up to him... Just my opinion... Barnes has almost always lifted from behind the ball, not really getting "around the ball". This can cause his ball to "roll out" and expend energy before it makes it to the pins. (Particularly when throwing the ball from the left side of the lane out to the right side of the lane). The video shows this clearly. This can cause lots of corner pins and even the now infamous 1-5-10. I am happy to see Chris much looser on the lanes now. And, very happy to see him working with his son Ryan.

[@drummachine434]

he would've won a lot more if he ever learned how to get around the ball

[@ronaldprunty3428]

AGREED, BARNES WAS ARGUABLY TOP 3-4 BOWLERS ON TOUR FOR PRETTY MUCH 15 YEARS. I FEEL LIKE HIE SOULD HAVE WON 7-8 MORE AT LEAST

[@bobapep20]

There is a lot of deflection in his drive through the pins. I wonder if sometimes he's using a 14 lbs ball? I miss using a 16 lbs ball but at least I go with the heavier 15 if I can get it.

[@digfidge]

12 shows in one season what a choker. Its a wonder how he even made it to those shows. Its almost as bad as those 40 something 2nd places walter has wait wouldnt that make walter an even bigger choker?

[@jackperrett381]

Another name that comes to mind is Marshall Kent. Dude literally has it all the power, the revs, the versatility, he just cannot win on TV to save his life

[@brianm.5822]

Over thinking, causes unneeded stress which results in mistakes. This cost him several titles.

[@Riz2336]

I definitely think Barnes threw a few away but the guy is a great bowler regardless

[@AdubsMMA]

Great video. Feel bad for Barnes as he is one of the nicest and greatest bowlers of all time.

[@CTM_Nation99]

I believe Barnes should be the #2 leader for the most career titles had he figured it out

[@SarcasticStorageStacker]

Great bowler, but underachieved on TV. Still HOF.

[@shaunmcisaac782]

No, end of vid

[@HectorEspinoza-nw9eq]

Yes he should have won 50 titles. TV does affect differently. PBA50 does not get as much TV so maybe he will win more in those tournaments if he chooses to participate in them.

[@dondgamer]

The first bowler I ever idolised was this guy; I still remember when he came truly came onto the scene in the early 2000s as one of the guys and was basically the poster child for Brunswick being seen as the next big thing.

[@k17dudeP]

Barnes in his prime was probably the best at making adjustments over the course of a series of games which is why he made so many shows. When he was on tour in his prime the format was much different for most non majors the field would be cut to 64 players and they would bowl single elimination best of 7 matches to cut down to the final 4 players for the tv show. In a 1 game match anything can happen

[@calebkidd]

9 players to earn the triple crown****

[@milwscruffy]

He was better at Putt-putt.

[@billyfields7722]

The Greatest bowler but he got snakebit.

[@lordmatthewanunnahybrid1356]

Top 15 yeah.. 1a Anthony 1b belmo 2 wwwjr 3 norm Duke? 4 D Weber? Belmo was of course the start of the 2-handed style which almost should put an asterisk next to his name. He’s super clutch though.. If ej Tackett can stay healthy he will work his way to the top 10 within the next year or so. May end up top 5

[@stevenm6301]

Barnes leaves a lot of untimely corner pins because his axis rotation sucks. Never seen another pros ball lose so much energy before it hits the pins. I'm honestly surprised Barnes has WON as many titles as he has.

[@lordmatthewanunnahybrid1356]

100% agree. He always gets strange angles on tv. He’s incredible when the lanes start to break down but his strike balls on fresh patterns have unfavorable angles coming into the pocket.

[@seikoselva1034]

that happen for a bowler that is cheaper....

[@Heath-Gallagher]

its easy,he was playing the lanes wrong,bowling deep inside lines leaves the balls hooking up to the lane itself and as you are lifting and moving oil with each shot its only a matter of time that you will start to go light or high,have a look at his opponents...all playing down and in....indianapolis open belmonte plays deep,norm duke down and in...duke won.

[@Icemanx1791]

Barnes had won titles “playing the lanes wrong.” I remember him winning a title on shark from way outside when everyone else was playing in. He played the lanes where he thought he could score