How Mormonism Harms Its Disabled Members

[@auriejeffery]

I was born in Mormonism and became disabled. Sadly, one of the worst things was being given very well-meaning blessings that were always conditional on my faith and/or obedience. They didn’t work, so my faith must not be good enough or I must be doing something wrong. I also felt pressure to say it was a little bit better even when it wasn’t so as not to “attack” the blessing givers. The self-blame and shame and dissonance really hurt. I’ve since deconstructed - in the beginning, the cognitive dissonance and fear of losing my social support system was so intense that the stress skyrocketed and my health became much worse. Now the stress is so much lower that I’m actually getting stronger. Thanks for this episode! ❤

[@jenniferroney6593]

Blessed you're getting better 1 step at a time

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

I hear this so much! So very glad you were able to deconstruct it is a long journey for me but I can feel happy sometimes and that is new🥰

[@kimberlycherrine-bell5371]

My husband was discriminated against based on Lee's teachings growing up..had a limp and severe stutter..was not till he was 40 that the foot started hurting so badly he asked for amputation..So happened a wonderful surgeon practicing up at U of U was friends of the doctor he saw..he had just perfected a new surgical procedure and agreed to do the experimental surgery on his foot..duringbthe surgery the surgeon came out and informed me that the foot defect was absolutely not a birth defect like his parents had told him all his life but was from child abuse as a baby and someone had to have crushed his foot and then it had to have been purposefully hidden and ignored..would have had to have been one or both parents..also poor husband stutter was caused for his father allowing him to fall asleep over an open hole in the floor of a van right over the exhaust tail pipe that gave him severe coma for 8 day carbon monoxide poisoning leaving him with mild brain damage, unable to walk or talk..leaving him.w8th the permanent stutter( his stutter had was severe until about two years after we married and it went away, he says loved cured his stutter..I say it was my acceptance).. he had leaders rhrow in his face how righteous and valiant this dad who abused him was cause he had children, but tell me I should allow myself to die when I got cancer cause I had not given him Bio children( he did adopt my first marriage child) but he had been told repeatedly his adopting my child did not count and he and I could not get in the celestial kingdom accept as servants to his righteous parents unless we had bio children ( pulling out some old Brigham Young teaching saying to back it up and club us with) anyway demanded I get no treatment and allow myself to die so he could remarry to have bio children...them forgetting he is the infertile one at the time not me( from the carbon monixide poisoning)..then they through at us that Heavenly Father would give him a miracle and restore his fertility if I just had faith enough to allow nyself to die and get out of the way..nothing like being gas light that your basic abuser, likely foot breaker and carbon monixide poisoner( accident or not, like any resposible adult would not fix a hole in a floor of a car or even drive it with a child asleep over top of it)was so righteous just because he sired children that he was gaining the celestial kingdom but you the living take on another abusers child born from R@pe as your own and raise them at 26 years old and treat an abused woman and child like poor gold dispite having a severe limp, blind in one eye, and mild brain damage and still adopt and raise a child brillant and so lovingly is not getting in except to serve as a basic slave to his abuser..How sick is that..and yet none seemed to think that being thrown in our faces we were suppose to have a problem with...my husband had a perfect body until he got stuck in the birth cannel and ended up blind in one eye from forceps, then limp from child abuse as a baby that was hidden and covered up, and then brain damage, infertility and other problems for a negligent "accident" by your abuser..but you are held to constantly having it thrown in your face you must have not been so valiant with your damaged body based on a "teaching" and used against you as a child growing up..all that and he stayed..but when they started at me and saying things about my Autistic child thats when he has not been back through the door..we have not officially left..but no one has ever apologized to us, just told us we have no right to feel offended..many other things happened too..church has been hurtful than uplifting for us mostly because of galse teaching, hateful members willing to dig up teachings to beat others over the head with to a guess feel superior and put us in our place as unworthy always..

[@the-salamander4truth]

Wow! I am so sorry that you experienced this. The church, especially in the 70’s was very abusive. I left in the late 80’s. I just couldn’t take the nepotism, racism, and general abuse any longer. You talk to a TBM today, they say that never happened, like we don’t remember correctly. It’s gaslighting pure and simple. So glad to be out!

[@NikkiSoFar]

So glad that you both survived the abuse - because all of it is abuse - you sound like wonderful people. Any church, religion or people who treat you so poorly don’t deserve you! Go find some real loving people who value you 🤗

[@blazefairchild465]

This testimony is the saddest I ever heard, this blatant child abuse all because he had a rough birth & a damaged eye ,his parents tortured him. It is too bad they weren’t put in prison for child abuse..

[@dianacryer]

😧 Get out of there. You deserve better.

[@juliee593]

Wow, that is just so horrific. I'm so glad you and your husband found each other and uplifted each other when the church was trying to pull you down. Protecting child abusers is the standard in this cult, but to tell a woman to die from cancer so that a man can have biological children with another woman... That is another level of cruelty that I would never have imagined. I wish you the best and hope your family is at peace now outside of mormonism.

[@alentia_thegreat]

I am Autistic, ADHD, Dyslexic, and Dyspraxic and have fibromyalgia. Going to church was a huge sensory nightmare, and the only solution was to put me and my kiddos (plus any of the other Autistic kiddos/adults) in the nursery room. So in a small room, in the back, away from everyone. It sucked.

[@nsasupporter7557]

I was discriminated against because I stutter. Words cannot describe how much I hate the LDS religion. I’ve been wanting to get on this podcast to share my story

[@alentia_thegreat]

@@nsasupporter7557 I am sorry that you went through that, I sucks. :(

[@nsasupporter7557]

@@alentia_thegreat so am I, now I’m gonna fight back. I’m gonna expose the Mormon cult for the fraud it really is

[@geekdivaherself]

My sympathies to both of you. I wish you and yours well.

[@blazefairchild465]

The nursery would trigger me more due to the crying.

[@michellesunshinestar]

Halfway through my marriage, I found myself in the psych ward (no pun intended) at the hospital. They diagnosed me with a mental illness. I didn't know who I was. I realized how stressed out I was (married life, school, work, and church). Plus, I was a convert and didn't know what was expected of me. Now I've watched enough of "She's in her Apron" channel to know what a Mormon wife is about.

[@emmapurcell5501]

I have a brother with autism and that has shown me how the members are good but the church is not. There is no place for him in church. There were a ton of members who would exclude him or judge our family, but we were so lucky to have a bunch of awesome moms and boys in our ward who made sure he was included in the activities and some of the boys became lifelong best friends to him.

[@savantianprince]

Wonderful news. There are good people in any community but not always the organization

[@emilyrln]

It's always great to hear when Christians follow the actual teachings of Jesus and love their neighbor 🥰

[@VelvetCyberpunk]

My cousin was badly injured in a motorcycle accident and was wheelchair bound. He had no way to get to church, and the local LDS ward decided it was too much trouble to go get him every Sunday, so they stopped. His brother, who had joined the Jehovah's Witnesses, took him to his church. Of course, the bishopric was very upset that he left the church..

[@TzUuup]

Sorry to hear that but come on man it isn't charity. Sometimes it doesn't work out. They'll try their best to try to help but they can't do everything

[@VelvetCyberpunk]

@@TzUuup I get that sometimes they can't do it, but the problem is they don't get to be angry when he leaves the church.

[@CantaLAnima]

No they weren't upset, they were relieved for sure and acted as if they were upset just for decorum and emotionally manipulating him even as he was leaving... and others who witnessed it.

[@emilyrln]

For a church that claims to have modern day prophets, seers, and revelators, they really should have seen that one coming. Or even with, you know, basic logic 🙄 I guess none of the bishopric had the gift of discernment.

[@VelvetCyberpunk]

@CantaLAnima well since I, nor you know for sure, we can only go by what they said. And they said they were disappointed in him that he left.

[@mnshorten]

Thank you for this. This was very eye opening. Man I really love this woman's style and overall energy. How she views spirituality and the afterlife mirrors my own beliefs now. Great content.

[@Zeett09]

I’ve never been Mormon but I was absolutely taught in the early 1970’s that lack of valiancy in the “pre-existence” was the reason for dark skin and birth defects. It was one of the many reasons I thought Mormonism was an odd faith.

[@peggynewman3598]

I don't know who told you that, but that's wrong. Neither has anything to do with the preexistance.

[@AyeAyeAyeCaptain]

@@peggynewman3598 “The privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country; and still others are born to parents who have the mark of a black skin with which the seed of Cain were cursed and whose descendants were to be denied the rights of the priesthood of God...There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. …Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits?" (Harold B. Lee, Decisions for Successful Living, p. 164-165). “There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:61) “We know, from the doctrines that we have received, that men and women have existed before coming into this life, for countless ages, and that we have been developing certain qualities, and the reason we are separated into great classes, as the N-gro race and the other races on the earth, is not a matter of caprice. God did not take three beautiful children yesterday morning, and say to one, You go to the N-gro woman, and to another one, You go to that Chinese mother, and to another, You go down to that beautiful Christian home. In my opinion, there were classes and races, and separation into different groups and conditions before we came to this world, and all are getting what they are entitled to receive here” (Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 62). “Why is it in this Church we do not grant the priesthood to the N-groes? It is alleged that the Prophet Joseph said-and I have no reason to dispute it-that it is because of some act committed by them before they came into this life. It is alleged that they were neutral, standing neither for Christ nor the devil. But, I am convinced it is because of some things they did before they came into this life that they have been denied the privilege. The races of today are very largely reaping the consequence of a previous life” (Melvin J. Ballard, Sermons and Missionary Services of Melvin J. Ballard, p. 248). “With all this in mind, can we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest Africa, or in flood-ridden China, or among the starving hordes of India, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our preexistence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as N-groes, some as Americans, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with sinners and saints, rewarding all according to their deeds” (Mark E. Petersen, “Race Problems as they Affect the Church,” August 27, 1954, p. 11). "Men are born in particular races because of what they earned in pre-existence. The N-groes, just purely and simply are N-groes because of pre-existence. They were less valiant. They did not develop the talent for spirituality that some others did. The House of Israel is the House of Israel because our pre-existence. It is all an outgrowth of this principle where some are foreordained to do particular things."( Bruce R McConkie, Pre-Mortal Existence, 1967) "The position of the Church regarding the N-gro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the N-groes." (First Presidency Statement (17 August 1949)) If God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it is not acceptable for supposed "mouthpieces of God"/"prophets" to make such grave errors that must be overturned in the future. What is the point of having a "prophet" who can teach such bigoted and uninspired things that are kept as official doctrine until a secular social movement prompts change in policy? Test the spirits. James 3, "8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?" Brigham Young believed and said awful things about other races, and women, as did other LDS leaders and polygamists like Heber C Kimball. As you can see, many other LDS general authorities said awful things. The test for a prophet in Deuteronomy does not allow for a prophet to make even one false prophecy, or to teach about other gods, or any false doctrine. LDS prophets do not pass the tests for prophets in the Old Testament, nor do they match the standards for bishops set out in the New Testament.

[@gaylasparks]

As I’m a mother of 7. My last two children were born with Down syndrome. I was told it was unfair for me to bring my children to church, Young Womens, girl camp ect, and the church is not trained to work with my children. I’m 5 th generation, I put 6th and 7th in to the church. I found myself always having to forgive & to restart. Advocating for them was a full time job. I never was supported by the membership of the church. Yes, the members would hug and greet them, but they couldn’t go to class, teachers complained, and I was told that they could not do Boy Scouts, and young women. There were occasions sisters in the church would step up and helped for occasional activities, but because they were not baptized, because I didn’t think uninformed consent was correct,the disability kept them from understanding what they we’re covenanting to: the Bishop wouldn’t allow my son to help with the sacrament. Not even for door monitor. I could go on and on, but needless to say in 2019 when the “lock downs” came, it provided me with time to study, and to realize, that the church had been lying to us, about everything! Doctrines they world change, disavowed, and the chaos just grew. I love my God, and found HIM FOR REAL outside the pharisaical system that Christ hated. I know that we are living free in truth and without the fears that the church teaches. I’m thankful I found your channel. Truth never changes. God is truth, and the truth sets you free.

[@TzUuup]

Sorry to hear that. What could a solution have been? Like how would one deal with the outbursts or stuff like that?

[@gaylasparks]

@@TzUuup well you are assuming that they are spastic children. They are well behaved in social settings of all types. It’s the disability of Downs and it is visible, and “different doesn’t equal wrong”…. and there are NO excuses not be inclusive, ever ! Read Christ directions in the scripture. “What you do to the least of these you have done into me.” What would Jesus do? It should be expected that all people who are called by HIS NAME willing to lend a helping hand: I would suggest that you expose yourself to a different community, and learn how to be a hero: instead of being on the sidelines and asking that type of question. Assuming the worst… WE are talking about a community of CHRISTIAN’S who don’t practice LOVE ONE ANOTHER: they feel more comfortable to love those who look and act like you…. You didn’t mean to reveal so much about yourself. You’re excused.

[@BoomBubbleBustRepeat]

Disabled adult in the church and I will tell you all the warm gushy thoughts and care end when you private and 1 on 1 with various leaders. They dont love you at all and they simply fake their tolerance for you. You simply are not a soul, you are useless to them.

[@madeleinesutherland1623]

OMG thank you Shalise and René for doing this episode!! I felt so seen. I was born in the church, neurodivergent, and became disabled. The ableism runs deep, the doctrines really are hurtful, and members are not equipped to practice true inclusion, which requires open-mindedness and solidarity. I felt so alone and broken before my faith crisis, but like René found so much joy and beauty on the other side of that.

[@rosalindrose1869]

Wonderful! Thank you. I am deconstructing from the LDS church and a grandmother of a moderately severe autistic grandson and am blown away how he is forgotten among church and family members, especially family.

[@xploration4818]

Follow your intuition? I didn't realize that my intuition actually belonged to ME until I was around 27 or so because I was taught from the day I was born that it belonged to the "holy ghost". I actually believed that the normal inner conversation we all experience was God speaking to me through the "holy ghost". I'm so thankful I recognized myself and took control at such an early age when I hear the stories of folks who hung on for much longer before recognizing themselves.

[@absudjj]

Great episode! Off topic but i must say the interior design of rene's room is so beautiful i cant get over it

[@deeperthings]

High functioning neuro-divergent 6th generation born and raised Boomer here. Remember Lucy Walker? I mean Aunt Lucy.... I already love both of you and your podcasts so much, but was deeply moved by this episode. Now I need to find the Mormon Discussion one and watch the first part.

[@mystery79]

My dad is a Mormon, I’m not interested in it at all but I’ve been to a couple of events because he invited me and I was curious. My son is autistic and I have taken him to a Catholic mass before (I’m non practicing but have some family still active so we attend occasionally for their events). He is quiet and could probably attend a Mormon service but I don’t want to expose him to their beliefs especially given he isn’t neurotypical and their track record is poor with accepting those who are different.

[@wilmasamel4574]

Yes, that is true. I have disability that prevents me from attending church. Yes, I have felt that I am treated as an outsider or ignored and not having "family" through the church.

[@danit5146]

Same for me. They really don’t like disabled people.

[@nsasupporter7557]

Yes! I want to be on this channel and share my story! I was discriminated against because I have a speech impediment!

[@NikkiSoFar]

Love hearing the different perspectives you bring to this channel! Thank you for the great “Linda listen” moment 😊

[@mrldr1595]

Linda🎉

[@batyaswiftyasgur9500]

This woman is fabulous! It's an honor to listen to her. What a journey and what a perspective! Kudos!

[@shelagh7850]

I use to feel hugs when I was upset throughout my life. When I was 40 I had a life threatening situation and told my mom I felt hugs at my worst and she said that was her mom who was known for her great hugs.

[@thebibliophilemermaid8566]

I was raised mormon and im finally breaking out of it and am disabled. I deal w/chronic pain and i had a family member (by marriage) say she was healthed from what i still deal with by prayer and i got so mad cause i had prayed so hard everyday most of my life to be healed and there she is saying she was healed but im still in so much pain. Man i must have not been good enough and thats when i started deconstructing.

[@rebeccablakey2637]

I am hearing this interview online and thinking about my own experience in the Mormon Church ( now an ex- Mormon). My mother had a mental health problem which I now suspect is Border Line Personality Disorder. I can recall asking for help for my mother because as I grew older I eventually realized that my mother did have something wrong. She needed help but wasn't pursing any help that I was aware of. I felt like nobody was listening when my family was falling apart . Eventually my mother did try to commit suicide by overdosing and went to a hospital to get professional care for her problems. My relationship with my mother has been strained for most of my life and their isn't an end in sight at this time. The church did eventually help after my mother was discharged from the hospital and did Step in to help out then(by this point I had moved out of home and will never regret that choice). Hearing this women speak about her disabled child and her experience has made me think back to my experience in the LDS church and how they don't support people with disabilities / mental health problems is very much correct. A disabled person or a person with mental health problems didn't ask to be born that way. The LDS church needs to change there perspective about what a disability is and how each person is God's child regardless of who they are

[@BoomBubbleBustRepeat]

I recently had to put my mother suffering from Alzheimers into nursing care, I am disabled and am now stuck without additional income, only SSDI. I made the mistake of asking the church for help, the releif society president told me I was entitled to no charity in ANYTHING and self sufficiency is the responsibility of all disabled or not. I asked for a recommend to work at DI for $9.00/HR but they are ending my contract because there is no role they can really retrain me into. They really at this point only retrain into Forklift cerfication and future retail working cashiers. The DI program is very stripped down and they constantly tell you to PLEASE move forward, no 2 week notice needed. I also wound up working with a S3x offender registered 77 year old man. LDS church is totally tough to get any help from despite a faithful family that paid in multiple 6 figures of tithes in over the years.

[@Samuraistar92]

I have autism and anxiety. Had a meltdown and panic attack over a boy when I was a member as a teenager. Was verbally abused by my friends dad who was a priesthood holder. He also grabbed my arm. Nobody called the police and felt his behavior was appropriate. I was scolded for having mental health issues. A pastor who helps Mormons quit advised me to leave at 17. I am glad I surrendered my membership forever and never went back.

[@hannepicklesimer8133]

I relate sooo much to René!! Even tho my family is very much from pioneer stock and was and still are very active, I never fit in. Simply by the fact that I was a tomboy and always wanted to hang out with the guys made everything very isolating. I expressed and outwardly pushed back against the narrative that we're sent here to just be mothers. I don't want kids and was shamed for expressing my opinion. I relate to René in how she felt like she was alone in her head and never really felt included in the social aspect of church a lot. Even tho I was very active bc of my fam, I never ever really fit in. Leaving was much easier and freeing for me since I was a fence sitter. Loved this episode! ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing!

[@fyrefli4109]

I have listened to a few of your podcasts. (Okay more than a few!) This is the first one I literally couldn't finish, as it was like René was talking about my life. My son was born with autism and was diagnosed after I was baptised into the faith. All of a sudden I was persona non grata. I was told all sorts of things by the High Priesthood President, and was constantly getting reprimanded as nursery was constantly coming to get me as my son wanted me, so I wasn't giving full attention to relief society. I won't even start on how my not turning up to mid week events was damaging me. The thing is, I still never believed I was in a cult and we persevered, although he was not allowed in Primary. (I argued with Primary President and Stake President about the handbook stating that additional support should be given for those children with 1:1 needs). It was later admitted off the record that "You are right. We should have done better, but we can't go against a Bishop". The final straw was Christmas and he was coming up to the 'it's great to be eight' stage. They refused point blank, even though he asked to be baptised, to do so, and asking the Priesthood holders of the church the official reason why (including the Bishopric) was like opening a plethora of Kinder Eggs --- different answer every time. Yet even when I went 'less active' I still believed. I still read my scriptures. Bought the Ensign, all the good little 'Molly Mormon' stuff that good Sisters need to do - especially one like me. My body was no longer in chapel, but my mind was so Mormon it was unreal. It was a good friend of mine (ex Jehovah Witness) who finally got me to see what I needed to see, but even now it is hard to get out of the mindset sometimes. There are days I can joke about it (we both laugh about how cults are cool, and I tell him I was in the best one, as we got Tree Day and Cake day!) but then there are days ... and it has been eleven years. I am rambling now. René just made me remember so much I had genuinely forgotten about. Perhaps I needed to hear it to progress my healing. Thank you for all you do, Shelise.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing that. I’m so sorry you had that horrible experience. I hope you’re doing better now and even on days where it feels we backslide into tough memories, like you said, it can be healing to face them, go through it and move forward ❤️

[@maryscott9430]

This was really interesting. Not only is this guest STUNNING she really resonated with me as i have 2 neuro divergent kids and 2 neuro typical… ive felt left out, looked down on etc by ppl over my nd kids many times. Our kids are not thr problem. Those holier than thou, soulless, vile people are the problem!!❤

[@haroldwhite5761]

I'm an unbelieving jackmormon with a disability acquired early in life due to abuse and was also treated as less worthy or valiant; Utah law made (and still makes) abuse very easy to cover up. Local health providers believe patriarchs over their patient. I was shamed for decades after, assuming my defiicits were my own fault for not trying hard enough. I have proof now but sometimes when times are hard it's little comfort to remind myself I've been more valiant, to survive so long with soul intact. I wonder if mormons around me subconsciously resent my presence because my condition is proof of LDS generational trauma, or maybe it was openly supporting Ordain Women? Thanks so much for this episode CTC and SBV

[@craftingemily]

I had a brain tumor when I was Ten had two surgeries to remove it. I am what I coined Liberal Lutheran. We have queer families who educated me when growing up to be an ally. But when I had my surgeries the church was amazing. When I was having a sensory overload who every was running tech would turn the sound down for the entire church. It’s growing up I would have to go to the cry room growing up but I was lucky our cry room but so was lucky. I went and still go to a small church and the cry room was at the back with a huge glass window with great audio. A couple years ago I got a service dog. She was welcomed with opened arms. When I told the pastor I was getting her he said, “You know she is welcomed here, she is serving God by serving you”.

[@danit5146]

That’s wonderful what your pastor said about your service dog! My LDS church ward won’t let us in the building. When I can, I go to my old ward. No one there says anything except that he’s a great dog.

[@swkrissie]

40+ years ago, I had a young son who wasn't neurotypical, we spent sacrament meetings outside because his behaviors put off the members. I was told he needed to be spanked and often. One of the many reasons we left the church.

[@tallman7100]

I am disabled my self and I feel like the church shunned me my whole life too.

[@whitneysawyer483]

That's discrimination...sorry to hear that.

[@brianwaller7383]

As a single male mid 40’s I was basically invisible to everyone outside my ward. Once the “new convert” wore off I was just another body and felt so isolated, it’s virtually impossible to find a woman in the church that didn’t have more than 3 kids and was imprinted by their Mormon ex so unless you are better than him she’s not going to even conversate with you

[@nothingelse1520]

I was a convert but I don't want children so that made it pretty much impossible to continue on in the church.

[@Cyrusmagi]

Well find a good woman outside the church? She may convert or just find a woman who is a lapsed catholic or babtist and introduce them to the church!

[@brianwaller7383]

@@Cyrusmagi lol that’s nearly impossible. Most women outside of the church like 90-95% aren’t marriage material

[@TzUuup]

​@@brianwaller7383 I'm trying not to laugh but you're making it easy. You can't find a wife at church or outside of work? Well what are your options than? Come on. Might have to settle with being a step dad. Seen it happen before

[@brianwaller7383]

@@TzUuup nope I just dropped out of the dating scene and going my own way. Fuck this shit I’m not going to settle for some used up 304 with 2,3,4 kids nope rather just go my own way and enjoy my peace

[@kimpulsipher647]

I hope someone is still reading this. I am 70 years old and was active from my 20s until i got sick. I have a disease that is one of the top 10 diseases for pain. There is no cure and no treatment. I had two callings. I did them until the pain was so bad that I needed to stop. The Bishop argued with me about stopping, but I had to insist. That was over 10 years ago. I have only heard from 2 people from church since then. And now 1 has died. They take my tithing, though. My husband has stopped going to church now, too. I thought they were supposed to care for the sick and elderly. Guess now that I can not do the things they want, that was a lie.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all of that. It’s so upsetting to hear that no one has helped or supported you the way you need. Do what you feel is right, but I would suggest not giving any more money to an organization who isn’t there for you. We wish you all the very best. Thanks for watching and sharing with us ♥️ you’re not alone. Sending love

[@avantgauche]

this was a beautiful video to watch I'm not religious or spiritual but listening to this was a wonderful example of acceptance and love and I hope you both have a wonderful life

[@ChristinaOstil115]

I decide to read David Icke's books and I rarely go to church. I am disabled and I am a converted member but I have my own goals to follow.

[@savantianprince]

From what I am learning about the LDS, is that if you aren't perfect, you don't matter. If they say they are the one true faith, why do they discriminate? God never discriminate. Love the person, not the sin.

[@michaelafuchs3299]

what a highly spiritual being rené is. wow. i'm completely fascinated and i loved this episode so much.

[@emilysnyder4857]

Yeshua said in John 9:2 of disability "He was born blind so that the work of God may be displayed in him." But churches everywhere alienate people on the spectrum. They can't see the Glory in the rainbow.

[@michellesunshinestar]

I am so much like you. I spent a lot of time by myself. I had a brother and sister. But they lived with my mom and I lived with my dad after the divorce. I was love bombed when I joined the Mormon church. And then after a few months some people moved, and my friend that converted me still stayed my friend thankfully. She's still in the church, and I would never deconvert her. I liked to read, that was my hobby. Similar thing happened to me. My ex civilly divorced me. He could remarry because of Polygamy but I could not remarry in the Temple. But I could still wear garments because of my ex. I was confused and disappointed. Glad you were able to celebrate your son. That's what we did for my brother, sort of. No dancing though. He had untreated depression.

[@jerryloufretz1797]

I read from the mother of a disabled child that the LDS church gives priority treatment to disabled children. Guess that's not really true. So sad.

[@shanamarshall4025]

Thank you for being a strong voice. Love Shana Marshall

[@tmarie82]

This was one of my FAVORITE episodes! This woman is beautiful ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Right?! She’s great

[@whats3219]

I feel like I have so much I want to say about this video. -The Portland area has been the hardest place for me to live when it comes to the church. I don't know what it is, but the people are just so difficult to fit in with or they won't let you in. They didn't really like people who were from pioneer stock or who were from Utah or Idaho or anywhere where there were large numbers of Mormons. -I have 2 autistic children. We were asked to keep them home either with a babysitter or one of us should stay home with them. The bishop told me that they had been talking about me and my family for a few months in ward council meetings, trying to decide "what to do with us". There is a long story of other things before this and what happened the last day I set foot in that building. At first, I wasn't going to keep them home because that was wrong, they were wrong to tell me that. I was going to go to the stake president. We would go to a different ward if we had to, but I wasn't going to hide them away at home. But on that last day, some people were assholes and I decided we were done. We would either go to a different ward or we would move. So we stayed home. I studied the Sunday school and relief society lessons at home and we had family home evening lessons. Until studying those lessons led me to really examine some of the questions and doubts I had always had about certain things and that opened the door to everything else and the decision to not go back to church ever. -I love what Rene said about how it doesn't have to be some white haired man or some obscure ghost watching over me. I have felt loved ones who have passed be near me. I've had some experiences with my great grandma, my grandpa, and my dad that I can't explain other than that their spirit or whatever was there with me, watching over me or comforting me. After leaving the church, I thought maybe I'm just crazy or it's my brain getting mixed up with memories of them during a high stress or difficult time. But, maybe it really was them watching over and comforting me. Who knows? I like Rene's way of looking at it, being excited to find out. -Yes, go gray! My mom used to be so mad at me because I had started getting gray hair, but I refused to dye it. She wanted me to dye it because if people saw that I have gray hair, then they would know that she dyes her hair. She finally gave up dying her hair a few years ago and wishes she would have done it many years ago. I like the gray in my hair. Maybe it doesn't look like the social norm for my age, but I like it so that's all that matters.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks so much for sharing all of that! I’m so sorry to hear you dealt with that concerning your autistics kids. Not ok. I also felt like Portland was super odd and clicky after I moved there from utah.

[@joannegrieco8523]

As an epileptic I'm Soo offended by that ideas and of course it's BS. We all have issues and they don't all take the form of a literal "disability" but they count. I worked for 25 year's disabled until things started getting far worse especially after a non catastrophic stroke and now I'm not allowed to work but I didn't let anyone tell me I couldn't and I went to college while working full time as a single Mom. Of course now my brain and body won't let me work and it's a horrible feeling to lose your independence but the idea that disabled people are less than and from a supposed Godly type person is infuriating!!! When he's older and has health issues does he then feel that way about himself!?!? I doubt it, some sort of new revelation will come to him because he thinks he's all powerful. Sorry, not mad you shared but I take issue with the guy who made you and your child "less than"!!!

[@pixie7349]

She doesn’t have near as many followers as she should!!! Thank you for sharing your story 🖤

[@mormonguru5984]

I really like this episode. St. Augustine taught that if those born with mental disabilities and don’t understand the gospel presented to them, then they will not be held accountable. Linda, He is not a grey haired man on a throne, He’s a grey haired man behind a curtain (veil)

[@GrandmaKnightLife]

I visited the LDS church with my Dad a few years ago and one lady said she thought that the reason some people are disabled is so others can feel better about themselves.

[@rubigee4397]

I saw a meme about a couple walking with their donkey. That meme taught me the greatest lesson life’s ever taught me: “So long as you’re not hurting or disrespecting yourself, or anyone else, DO WHATEVER & so long as you’re single WHOMEVER YOU WANT! Bc SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE ALWAYS has something to say”

[@mreppen1]

As a former Scientologist from 1971-2011 who is now expelled this is nothing new. I’m sure other religions are similar

[@ashestoashesc6571]

What a wonderful woman. She is a beautiful person inside and outside.

[@mistyjohnson8905]

You both are absolutely beautiful! Thanks for sharing

[@julieward9950]

Such a beautiful person. I had an overy removed when i was 9 and having a hard time having children did concern me when i started thinking about having kids, but it did not!

[@aliciamarie9704]

Subscribed! Looks like you have a huge collection of videos that I can’t wait to watch!

[@eliwilliamson7849]

Fantastic life story. When I was a young JW in the 1970s there were the rare brave moms who let their kids be themselves. I was judgy and jealous too.

[@kelvisstyles]

Thr Church has completely ignored my disabled son yet they sure pay attention to non members

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I’m so sorry to hear that

[@paulbrungardt9823]

Amazing how Mormon theology changes with the wind. When US. Congress refused to allow Utah statehood, due to polygamy & pedophilia .God came to the Mormon church and told them to give up multiple wives & sex with children... In1978, Jessie Jackson led a planned Salt Lake City protest of Blacks non admission to the priesthood & the temple. 100,000 Black men were organizing a protest in Utah of racist Mormon church teachings; Then, that same year, God then came to the Mormon church and told them black people were now okay. For 180 years, Mormon church taught hateful things towards Gays. Now in 2023, after bad press, God has told the Mormon church to back off the condemnation of Gays...Interesting timing of God's revelations & heat the Mormon Church was feeling

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Exaaaaactly. They were also about to lose university status at byu due to racism and they had been expanding into Africa with not much luck in converting people who couldn’t have the priesthood, so….alas.

[@IAmJustOneMom]

Admittedly I only began to understand this discrimination of the disabled because I had a long recovery from an ankle surgery. I had to use a knee scooter that was helpful but was difficult to maneuver at doors safely. The SP decided the only wheelchair/disabled restroom in the new-ish Stk Ctr needed to become a Stk office only restroom so they built a dang wall into the foyer that enclosed that restroom for Stk officer use only (Stk Prc’y, High Council, Stk Clerks - aka Only Men.) So at first I was shocked that 16 men had their own restroom and it was so important to them that modified the foyer to expand their private domain. But then once I was on the knee scooter I could not navigate the push and open process on one leg, I realized that the restroom they enclosed for the prstd office only use was the only handicap viable bathroom in the stk ctr. No inspiration there. It’s a man’s world. When I pointed this out I was told to ask someone to hold the door open for me…

[@andie3448]

Yesss i just found you and kept watching the other cults videos before finally finding this one, my #1 question with all the cults scientology/flds/lds/Jehovah etc treat their disabled people. I assume very poorly considering ive never heard of anyone with a disablity being in a church. I grew up Lutheran, in the mainstream religion sect. Just sundays and choir. Nothing that impeded our human growth, but at service they made the disabled kids go to sunday school or the nursey if the teacher didnt want them. It was extremely sad to watch, my dad never told the church my sister has down syndrom because you cant really see it unless youre looking for it. It got harder to take her as she got older and she stopped going when she turned 19 because everyone caught on but stopped speaking to my dad as often. He lost a lot of friends and decided to stop going. It just MADE people feel uncomfortable to be judged like that so a lot of people would come and go. It was mainly the elderly that made people feel that way. Im all for having a religion but judging people instead of accepting them is wild. Like people who dont associate with someone who isnt part of the religion. Red flag for me.

[@loveycat5474]

I used to take the disabled to church with me and I was told many times that they do not belong here. Sometimes were given their own church group away from everyone else. Their excuse was that they would not get anything out of a regular service. But I wonder how would they know this. But I took them to church anyway and demanded their right to a attend church service like anyone else. Some liked it and I could tell like others did not. I even had one minister that told me that they were not welcome but I took them to church anyway until I decided to leave and join another church and their later on I was told to quit my sunday job so I could attend the church service. They never realize that all people are created in God's image including the disabled.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

That’s awful. Good on you for not taking no for an answer and helping those kids

[@sinSARAHty]

Yes, I find a lot of this rhetoric around people with disabilities very sad. To share my own experience, my husband and I both grew up Mormon; my sister is high on the autism spectrum and my husband's little sister is very low functioning on the spectrum and has some other diagnoses, as well. We have both recently distanced ourselves in our own ways and for our own reasons from the Church, but throughout our lives my husband's family and my own have experienced so much respect, empathy, understanding, acceptance, and service from members. I should ask my sister's experience with it

[@ArghMatey]

I'm so thankful for this channel! This is soooooooo eye-opening why my partner refuses to get screened for neurodiversity (like me) - there's still severe stigma!

[@MissMentats]

I really like this lady, she is very eloquent

[@caseyhstuver]

See I was LDS growing up around Methodists and they definitely discriminated against me. I got passed over for opportunities because I wasn’t Methodist. So I think has a lot to do with whatever the predominant religion is. I didn’t witness the good in that church that she’s speaking of. But the Methodists have several break off sectors. But I respect that is her personal experience.

[@goatmealcookies7421]

Deepest condolences on the loss of your son.

[@lelandunruh7896]

This is so weird to hear. My mother was wheelchair bound for the last two years of her life and she and my father attended the cathedral in our diocese (built in 1874). Even being such an old building, it had ample wheelchair or limited mobility seating. Admittedly, there are two prime seats with the others not being as good. Still, we never had trouble with finding a place for Mom's wheelchair (with the exception of a couple of times that the governor of our state, who is also in a wheelchair, accidentally stole Mom's spot while she was in the bathroom--he very apologetically gave the spot back).

[@jsimmons7797]

Rene is so pretty!! I hope I look that pretty someday. Thanks for sharing her story.

[@AzDesertFoxx]

Listening to your numerous discussions, I'm so thankful I grew up non-religious. My mom was Catholic, my dad was baptised Lutheran but never practiced, and I was baptised as a baby Catholic, but have never practiced, nor did my parents make us do anything. I did go to CCD when I was 8, and hated it. Even then I knew it was bullshit. My mom noticed my dragging my feet, and asked did I want to stop, and I said yes, and I stopped. Dressing/looking like I wanted/want (as a child, within reason, of course), having boyfriends, going to parties. I'm really lucky that my parents let us decide if, when, and how we wanted to believe, and loved us no matter what. I did the same with my daughter. I let her decide what/if she wanted to be.....anything! I'm atheist, and couldn't be happier. Oh, and I stopped dyeing my hair over 8 years ago, and have a cool "skunk stripe" of grey. Fuck the establishment!!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I love that! Thanks for sharing! I plan to do the same with my kids. Educate them on all the options and let them decide what works

[@morgans99]

Would love to see you do an episode with Jordan and McKay!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

we have reached out a few times! Maybe you could leave a nudge on their profile 😜

[@SevenLlamas]

Eye opener in several ways. Thanks!

[@RIO4LIFE]

Loving this episode ❤

[@sherieweber6708]

You hit the mail on the head starting at 35:00 min mark 👍👍👍👍

[@christiea.6778]

I work with students with disabilities and my ward made a calling for me to take care of the kids with autism and special needs. I remember feeling taken advantage of because I worked during the week and then my ward put me to work on the weekends. The building and routine of church wasn’t made for kids with special needs to thrive!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Christie! For one, I’m so happy they actually made a calling for this to at least attempt to help the special needs kids. For two, I agree that it would be absolutely exhausting and is unreasonable to expect you to work 24/7. I’m also appreciative for your perspective on how the church was not set up for them to thrive. Thanks for sharing!

[@HHIngo]

What a wonderful lady! Greetings from Germany.

[@blimeyhermione07]

Excellent interview ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you!

[@malwa6600]

the best Linda Listen I have ever heard

[@carolinedoctor1246]

As a 24yr old with pink hair and the underside of my head shaved, I felt very seen when René shared her Linda Listen haha. Cannot wait for when I go grey and I will definitely be getting tattoos when I am done with graduate school (and therefore making more money lol).

[@fayereeves6568]

Many of the old chapels had "Cry Rooms". Rooms with glass so the people could see and hear the meetings

[@ardenpeters4386]

i have NEVER SEEN DISABLED TREATED DIFFERENTLY. EVER

[@CultstoConsciousness]

That's great for you :)

[@JessMcCrossan]

Someone else may have commented, but as a Canadian I feel like Chicago is not the mid west. Is it not an eastern ciry?

[@StefWokeUp]

I loved this interview 💚💙💚

[@angietyndall7337]

Growing-up LDS, my dad was seen as a good son, who just needed to go to church as encouraged by his mother. Yet, when she came over, my" dad" would tell her how disobedient all three of his daughters were. btw, my "dad" abused the hell out of us. So, when she would leave, she would tell us to be good, etc. He also used religion, including LDS against us ALL THE TIME!! My cousin[also LDS] years later was informed of the abuse we all suffered from childhood to our adulthood, but she called her a lair and was told to forgive and that sje was being cruel to say sucj things about him as he just turned 70. This cousin also told her that she was Godless too. I mean hell is for real, especially when your abusive "dad" is also a Sociopath-Narcisst. Tbh, he hasn't changed either. He did things too like telling me to jump of a cliff as an adult at then yome of my being atage of 40, because I didn't have a job ...and yes I am disabled too. He recently told my sister that, helping others is evil[ She wrecked her car, dur to another's wreckless driving . Oh and he forced her to go car shopping in below winter weather temperatures; etc.. she's an adult btw.

[@angietyndall7337]

P.S. Ex-Mormon for many reason, including being lied to, too much expected,and funally finding out that yes it's NOT BIBLICALLY based at all. Oh yeah and hypocrisy of the leaders, like finding out thr truth of J.S. and that many higher ups in the church watch M rated movies....and yes the connection to the demonic Free Masons. Tbh the symbols are all over the Salt Lake Temple's Exterior too.

[@Uncle_Steve71]

You should have Tia Leavings. Incredible woman! She left the IBLP.

[@breezycovergirl]

😮Most of the members have skeletons in their closet. A very well known newscaster Son was disabled and in our ward. The wife of the newscaster came to me at a party and told me how horrible they Were treated in the ward and by their bishop because of their disabled son !!!

[@marilynmantis5409]

What a beautiful woman, both inside and outside. How on earth do you look so good after being a caregiver your entire life? This was a good discussion on the myth versus the reality of "families are forever." I choked up the cult as a young teenager, and it has been emotionally taxing knowing the thought processes and lack of acceptance by the true sheep being fleeced by "the church."

[@GrandmaKnightLife]

Aren’t we supposed to be like “sheep “? And Jesus our good shepherd?

[@marilynmantis5409]

@@GrandmaKnightLife In my opinion, that would be yes and no at the same time. Be open to the real God or your divine connection to what you perceive to be the creator and say no to corporate churches who fleece you of your mind and money.

[@MissMentats]

I’m autistic and mixed race and have a tattoo… I somehow got dragged to a Mormon church because I was having an autistic moment, didn’t understand the missionaries were trying to convert me lol. But I remember the like priest type person shook everyone’s hand but literally stopped smiling and skipped me. I don’t know how to explain sorry

[@brooke_reiverrose2949]

Wow what an ass, not your fault- that’s all on him

[@LOwens-xf8yo]

Thank you for sharing your story. I think you expressed yourself very well. I sometimes use a wheelchair, so I’ve had similar experiences. People often stop smiling and avoid eye contact. It can be very frustrating. I hear you!

[@aksez2u]

Strangely, in this place and time, it seems that the people who are NOT religious are far more loving and welcoming than those who are religious. ❤

[@caitlynrogers2411]

Love your co-host!! Oscar is the best.

[@_punkybrewster]

So glad I found your channel! I would love to see you chat with Amanda Rae Grant & Eskel Grant. They are brother and sister former members of The Order/Davis County Co-op, whatever you want to call it. A polygamous cult nonetheless. They both have their own KZbin channels but love to do interviews and I think you’d all bring value to one another in discussion ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Heather! We were set to record with Amanda but she kinda ghosted us 🫠👀 maybe you could leave a little comment on her channel to get her attention again 😁🙏

[@_punkybrewster]

@@CultstoConsciousness Ope! I’ll message her lol. She went through a really heavy breakup recently so she may have been stuck in that Elmo fire gif mentally lol

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Gotcha. Sounds good! 🙏🏼

[@breezycovergirl]

You don't fit in the church if you are Disabled, older, poor etc.

[@realhealthrealwealth]

Sooooo GOOD ❤🎉😊

[@laraemitchell9064]

I love your name. Very close to mine. I was born and grew up in Oregon, but both my parents came from Utah, and that’s where my name originated. How about you? Do you know where your name came from?

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you!!

[@realhealthrealwealth]

@LaRae Mitchell 😊 I was supposed to be Michele. However, my cousin was born 3 months ahead of me, and my my dad's middle name was Lee, and mom's is Rae. Le Rae is what I got

[@laraemitchell9064]

@@realhealthrealwealth that’s cool! My granddaughter got her middle name in a similar way. My daughter blended my name and her MIL’s name. “Rayelle” from LaRae and Michelle.

[@LetMeTellYouSomething144]

I luv your content.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you!!🥰 happy to hear it!

[@AtypicalPaul]

Great conversation

[@maxjenkins7139]

You ladies are awesome

[@ladyklynne1970]

I was born in the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day, Saints, and I am also blind. I had struggles sitting in, and felt like I was always on the outside, looking in. Being that said. I was treated much worse in the Jehovah’s Witness faith, stop, Penecostal church, and other protestant churches. I won’t even discuss Catholicism! Honestly, I don’t think that Christianity was meant for people with disabilities, especially blind people. We are not accepted!

[@danit5146]

I’m so sorry. I don’t think non disabled people in general are kind nor considerate. My friends are disabled like me.

[@RIO4LIFE]

I was taught that the disabled were extremely valiant in the pre existence and their purpose was to help us learn patience and eternal love. I wonder when this teaching changed?

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Not sure if you’ve made it to that part yet, but she talks about how these is really damaging. I also don’t know the current teaching. I should check into it. Either way, the harm has been done to millions already.

[@professorg7387]

⚠️We witnessed a horrible display of ABLEISM when an entire church of 100s of people prayed for the “miracle healing” of a boy with a chronic condition. ( we forget which one, maybe cerebral palsy) They treated him like circus sideshow! Imagine his disappointment each Sunday when he is NOT ‘miracle healed’. We wonder if they told him it was HIS own fault for not having enough faith or being devout enough?

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Noooo. That’s so awful. Yes, chances are they blamed him for not having enough faith

[@joannegrieco8523]

I was the "care taker" too though it was also in my family then later my friends

[@valerune192]

I have autism and to be completely honest, i dont like religion the slightest. Hearing this wonderful woman changing her whole way of live because she saw and understood her autistic family members didnt fit into the a4 of the cult… they´re lucky to have her as a mother and grandmother

[@kelviannaepperson3677]

I have spastic diplegia cerebral palsy and I have a hard time speaking out loud so I speak when I have to and it's hard to speak in groups I have a speech impediment it took a long time to realize it. I am a Christian but my mom has been trying to change her religion but I see the lies in it.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing ❤️

[@triestemonroe8786]

I have had a total opposite experience in the church. Absolutely not a cult and very helpful and accepting of disabilities and disabled of all ages.

[@Oddaysea]

She is an insane beautiful woman! Love her style too!