How I Got My Mom to Leave Mormonism

[@RyanHawley76]

Generational member here. Leaving the church behind was the best decision of my entire life! (save marrying my wife, of course) It feels so great to live authentically. I'm so excited for my kids to grow up WITHOUT indoctrination!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Ryan! Congrats! I'm so so so happy for you and for your family! Wow. They have no idea how lucky they are to have dodged the guilt/shame bullet because you made the hard decision to break the chain and walk away. Thanks for sharing!

[@inChristalone1960]

Amen to that!!

[@inChristalone1960]

@cindybin2001 Cindy, Respectfully, 40 years hard research of my own supports my informed oppinion. Indeed, you can believe that l do support those who awaken to te falseness of Mormonism. Further, l pray that many more will be awakened. I have read your comments over the years , but l do not address you because you do not listen to the actual evidence that others bring. You just repeat the same comment about how you have researched, but you do not comment on the questions and information you are being offered. I don't know why this is. I hope that you will become willing to have real dialog with others. All the best.

[@inChristalone1960]

@cindybin2001 You only defend. You don't listen.

[@o2missygayle]

How are you ending your church membership? Are you just stopping going to church? Did you write a letter asking to be excommunicated and have all your records removed from the church? What about your genealogy in church records? How about a video about ending your membership in the church?

[@System-Madox]

I love how intelligent your mother is. Despite a religion that sought to terminate thought, she never stopped being curious and asking questions. Also trying to answer your questions when you brought them to her is amazing.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

She is the best!!

[@tedgarrison8842]

Isn't it crazy that you leave a cult after trying to be perfect, only to find out that you are an amazing person without the cult????

[@merricat3025]

I think the perfectionism is still a part of her. When I was watching this I was thinking I bet she's a perfectionist and likes to make lists. She has a very organized air about her. Not a bad thing.

[@inChristalone1960]

@@merricat3025 lt takes a lifetime to recover from Mormonism and that perfectionism. I am also exmormon . I left over 40 years ago. 😳 The programming goes deep..

[@HiddenBrilliance]

OMG. This.

[@tedgarrison8842]

@@HiddenBrilliance 💨 🌿

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Merri Cat! She is very much a perfectionist. And lists are her favorite thing! haha I would said it's part of her type A personality which was actually a favorable trait in mormonism and why she was so highly regarded in the church. I think the church definitely exasperated her perfectionism and made it lean into the negative side, however she has gotten a lot better with it now and it's more on the healthy side :) thanks for your observations!

[@JenniferHorton-r2s]

I was raised in the Mormon church and finally gave up on it at age 50. 12 years on I am still deconstructing. My very Mormon mother and reluctantly Mormon father passed away in 2020 without my ever clearly telling them I was out. I have one sister who left when she was a teen and 2 who are temple going devoted members. Your content is enormously helpful to me in my ongoing deconstruction process.. Thank you.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! I’m so glad it’s been helpful. It’s definitely not easy but worth it ❤️

[@anneelvestuen2328]

Love from Norway ❤

[@tigerkitten8352]

I love that it was entirely accidental that you caused her to leave and was that catalyst for her truly looking for answers and beginning deconstruction. Such a heartwarming story of family love.

[@breem2999]

I'm a never-Mormon, but I remember in college my friend told me she couldn't attend her sister's wedding because it was in the temple. And my friend wasn't allowed in (she was out as bisexual and didn't follow her family's rules). I was so shocked and sad for her.

[@Wendy-rt5em]

My friend couldn't attend her sister s wedding because she wasn't LDS, it was in the Temple. Her husband was bossing around the wrong woman, she had 2 children left him and is now happily married

[@residentsnob]

Your mom is a beautiful person. I wish I could talk to my mom like that. Just normal banter, without it immediately spinning off into cult guilt-trippy talk.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Wow, thank you. I totally recognize that I’m so lucky to have this type of uninhibited relationship

[@marilynmantis5409]

This is such a great comment. My dear mother has crossed over, bless her heart, but there were times when she and I would argue over religion where the whites of her eyes disappeared and she turned into one of those black-eyed children. During those discussions I would hear every one of the cult-generated "truisms" that made me want to puke.

[@Amandadear0812]

I pray that your mom breaks free of the “guilt tripping cult life”. It’s so much better on the normal side. Despite the fears that have been instilled In us. Proud ex Scientologist

[@HolldollMcG]

I can relate. I love my mom, but our conversation does often spiral into cult-talk and toxic positivity. So exhausting.

[@marilynmantis5409]

@@HolldollMcG It is so oppressive to say the least. Whenever I attempt to watch a general conference to see what kind of United Nations bullshit that LDS, Inc., is indoctrinating the fleeced sheep with, I can only listen for a minute before turning it off. How do the believers listen to that crap? I love your term toxic positivity.

[@marlbboro8091]

With a mom like this these kids/adults can not go wrong ! ❤️ what a lady ! As a Hindu I got tears in my eyes when mom said ‘everyone says it’s about unconditional love’.

[@cryptochris9001]

Everything is wrong for choosing to reject Heavenly Father and the Son Jesus Christ. Turning to atheism or false religions does nothing for you long term. Getting to know Heavenly Father is the only answer He is our literal Father.

[@torglesnarfprime]

​@@cryptochris9001dude, no one asked you, you aren't welcome here, and you do not deserve to be listened to.

[@Amandadear0812]

@@cryptochris9001 that’s what they are doing without the cult rules. 😱 her shoulders are showing 🤦‍♀️. Come on man. That will keep her from the celestial kingdom?????? That makes zero sense. But that’s what indoctrination is. It’s a green with things that you know. Make no sense. And I know this because I escape to cult Called Scientology. Every person I know, for the most part have at least 60% that day either questioned or flat out disagreed with because it was nonsensical

[@ellemarr7234]

@@cryptochris9001ah a believer in Mormonism and a crypto. Sir, you are too far led astray to preach to anyone.

[@cryptochris9001]

@@ellemarr7234 led astray? 😂😆 Literally the opposite. Any religion that denies Heavenly Father has been led astray.

[@marcellaaldama8896]

I am not a Mormon but I lived in Utah for a little while and met many Mormons and I have extended family that are Mormons. Listening to your talks just reminds me that your experiences are similar to other people’s in other religions. The topic that most impressed me was your mother’s story about the 2 men from her church coming to her home to hopefully answer her questions even though it wasn’t appropriate for them to be there without your dad being home. I should say that it was your mom that impressed me the most. She was spot on when she thought, what would Jesus do, feel or say if he was in the room with them. That is so very true. And then for her to have the courage and will to make those men leave was so impressive I would have given her a standing ovation!!

[@lydiakimball9141]

I'm the only daughter in my family as well. I come from a long line of strict Roman catholics. Since leaving the church my relationship with my mother has suffered tremendously. The closeness you two have is beautiful ❤ Watching this was fascinating & also painful, ngl.

[@c471]

You are not alone. ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Lydia, I'm so sorry to hear that about your mother. I'm truly grateful to have the relationship that we have and I recognize that it's pretty rare. Especially after "defecting' from a high-demand religion. Maybe one day she will start to ask you questions and open up after seeing how well you're doing. Sending love!

[@MaddyLockman]

You are so strong and I commend you for the bravery it takes to leave the church. Thankfully, my family was forced to leave when the priest refused to serve my mom the eucharist because she had divorced. The stress that came with being a lesbian in such a devout environment is something I will never miss. I hope you are doing well and your family will start to question themselves

[@morgainedeeh7921]

OMG!! Same here. very strict Roman Catholic upbringing!!!!! in a teenie tiny village on the french border where EVERYBODY was catholic. We as kids were watched constantly. WE HAD TO BEHAVE, WE HAD TO OBEY, WE HAD TO LOOK NICE on sundays! the only time we were able to be kiddos, was when we were out of the schoolroom and in Mother Nature, roaming in our little forest or on the banks of our beautiful river, were we could make sure, we had fun and nowgrownups round. That was the best. I hated Sundays. And catechisum class, if one had a question, we were scared shitless (sorry for the strong word), cause our priest was one of those "special" ones, if you know what I mean!! Our "Don Camillo" (was his nickname from an old italian comedy movie series) was a mean unfriendly unkind son of a gun, we were so afraid of him! All of my schoolmates! My relationship with my family did not suffer, thank heavens, my Mom opend up to my feelings and my thoughts. But my Grandparents really had a "bad" time with me not attending mass no longer! RC is the biggest SECT on the planet from my point of the view! And since I do not go to church no longer the elders in the village still look "strangely" at me, even if I say a warmly hello to them. some even turn away. Since imigrants moved into our village it is getting better, I have to say. But I always have the feeling that they do not like having people round them of other religions etc. It is so good to know that no one is perfect and as humans we are aloud to be not perfect, there is no perfection. You just have to be kind, empathic, warmhearted and friendly to others. Then you are nearly perfect ! I loved this Mom-Daughter interview. and as the Mom said, if people do not like me or do not love me for the way I am, well, it´s their problem, not ours - isn´t it Sending much love to this cute adorable Mom-Daughter couple and to all of the listners.

[@almabelhumeur6672]

@@morgainedeeh7921 Read John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son to whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but hath everlasting life. Christianity is about having a personal relationship in Jesus. Roman Catholic is like a cult as well. One would know just by reading the 10 Commandments. My in-laws were staunch Catholic so was my mom. My dad's family were not but were Roman Catholic. They pray to Saints and Virgin Mary and the Bible is very clear we must pray to Jesus Christ. Another thing they believe is the Pope is next to God! So wrong on so many levels. They sure like to teach hell in brimstone too. I believe there is hell, but is only by the Grace of God that we are saved. Which is by accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Saviour and Lord!

[@barbhugheschapman268]

I can relate with your mother about the perfectionism. My doctor told me Utah is number one on antidepressants.

[@HolldollMcG]

I believe Utah scores highest on suicides, especially among youth. If not highest, then one of the highest.

[@idafriedman1449]

Pornhub says Utah is their biggest client (most accounts)

[@aawillma]

54:15 "because it was a lot of your questions, that would make me question." This is an under appreciated sentiment. So many religious parents think their job is to IMPOSE belief and faith and knowledge onto their children, never to learn from them. I deconstructed way back in my teens but it became really obvious to me on day one of motherhood that my child would teach me as much, or more, than I would ever teach him. Big props to your mom for being open to this. It is so much harder to do when all you've ever known your whole life is that parental authority (mirroring god's authority) trumps all.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you so much for this. And thank you for raising your children as independent thinkers! My mom always tells me I teach her so much, which I think takes a very big person to embrace. I appreciate your insight and connecting the dots between God's authority and parental authority that cause many parents to impose beliefs as you said.

[@kellyreilly-robinson2130]

My children are why I questioned! I thank them for teaching me everyday!

[@sarahissersohn5495]

I really love this, too. My mom and I have had a very challenging relationship (it’s started getting better, in fits and starts), and once, I was frustrated and muttering, “why did I have to pick her? What is it she’s supposed to be teaching me??” And my Kiddo, who couldn’t have been more than maybe 7 or 8, all of a sudden, looked me in the eye and was like, “No; you’re here to teach her”, and then went back to playing. It really stuck with me. 💜⚡️

[@saschamayer4050]

That's true, but not just for faith.

[@lanigouws3525]

Shelise was blessed with the right women who came before her. Despite them being so deeply indoctrinated, and it being generational, Mom and Grandma were strong women who thought for themselves. They are rare and must be appreciated.

[@michellelee7230]

Great conversation and very real. I was a convert (now an exmo) and the stress of meeting all the expectations and checking all the boxes turned me into someone I didn’t like or recognize. Your mom’s story of the chaos before church is so real and my husband told me that he began to hate and dread Sundays as a kid, not only because of 3 hours of church and sitting in the house the whole day afterward, but also because his mom would be screaming at them all morning and in the 30 minute car ride to church (they lived in Tx). His mom wanted everyone to look perfect and she acted like her world was going to end if they didn’t get there early enough to sit in the front row. The stress of church “obligations” and the unsaid expectations is out the roof. Everyone is trying to avoid feeling guilty, shamed or judged by others because everyone knows everyone’s business. It’s all so toxic. Last thing, some of your comments on the garments took the words out of my mouth 😂 they’re so unflattering for women. Like a supermodel wouldn’t even be able to pull them off. I remember one of the fabrics somehow manifested and magnified cellulite over the backs of my legs and butt that wouldn’t be able to be seen if not for these horrible garment bottoms. I never wore mine and didn’t care if I was judged for it. They were ugly, uncomfortable and I was way too hot in them anyway. And yes you still need a temple recommend to get garments. I think the only change that’s happened in the last few years is that you can see the actual garments before buying them instead of the just the fabric swatch. One weird thing that happened last year is that I got an email survey from the church (this was after I left) asking a bunch of questions about my experience with garment bottoms, including a question about UTI’s and yeast infections. Apparently the garment bottoms for women can increase the changes of getting these because the way they’re cut is not in line to promote healthy hygiene

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Michelle! Thanks so much for tuning in and for your thoughtful comments! Sounds like your husband really went through it! Wow. It's so unfair all the pressure that is put on these young families to meet unrealistic expectations. Ohhhh garmies...I'm SO happy I was never "worthy enough" or married young enough to wear them haha. I couldn't do it. Thanks for the insight on the current policies! That's so wild to me that you have to be worthy just to buy underwear. I'm so happy though that they are finally considering what it's like for women (per the UTI survey) because I can only imagine how musty it gets down there without proper ventilation and proper fabric. Yikes lol.

[@HosCreates]

I bought garments without a recommend 🤔

[@johnlee1352]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@michellelee7230]

@@johnlee1352 spoken like someone whose identity is so wrapped up in an organization, that my comment felt like a personal hit to your ego. If reading these comments makes you lash out at strangers to make yourself feel better about something you believe in, then maybe you shouldn’t be reading them? Anyways, good luck out there and I wish you the best.

[@johnlee1352]

@@michellelee7230 Just wishing you well in your new, unaccountable life!

[@aksez2u]

I've watched several episodes in a row, and I love how many guests have chosen to show their freedom, individuality and creativity through their hair!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Such a great point! Freedom of expression is so important!

[@aksez2u]

@@CultstoConsciousness ❤

[@Georgie3463]

I noticed the same thing! 😁 It's awesome!

[@HolldollMcG]

Also, your mom is a rockstar. I was so relieved to hear about her wearing garments to keep up appearances, because I'm at the point in leaving right now where I do the same thing. I wear "modest" clothes around the family members who are still in because 1) I don't want conflict, and 2) I have a lot of anxiety around being able to see my family, especially my nephews. Like, I worry that if I leave, my sister, and more likely her husband, will cut me off from my nephew's, whom I adore.

[@brooke_reiverrose2949]

Heartbreaking. I wish you so much luck and love.

[@Moore2luv2680]

How are things now for you? My brother and his wife have stopped talking and including me in family gatherings. This still has been the best decision. ❤ says more about them than me. Stings though, to realize they meant more to me than I did to them.

[@Georgie3463]

Your mom is adorable!! I have to say that when she was talking about being perfect, I was reminded of a documentary or news program I saw years ago. It was about heroin use and prescription pills by Mormon women. Many that were interviewed said the pressure to be perfect was overwhelming them. It makes more sense to me now

[@sidstovell2177]

Yes, I saw it also and felt very sorry for those Mormon women.

[@Chancho801]

My parents are two intelligent, successful people. It’s so hard for me to comprehend how they believe in this still. I would die of shock if they ever left.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

It's wild, but also totally understandable when you're deep in the control of it all. I remember when I was kid sitting in the pews during testimony meeting. Which thinking back now is a HUGE red culty flag lol. Make your congregation stand up once a month to declare their "knowing" in this doctrine so their peers have no choice but to stop questioning since Brother X is a lawyer and super smart and if HE KNOWS it's true then it must be.... I always had these thoughts. I learned years later that they tell their members to bear their testimony until they believe it themselves. So most of those people were probably trying to make it true to themselves. Fast & testimony meeting should be called "re-indoctrination meetings". Especially when they make the toddlers go up and chant/repeat the same words over and over.

[@mamontai]

Indoctrination blinds even the most intelligent

[@mamontai]

When I left the church, members said my sins were too heavy and the church was to convicting to bear....l laughed...it's so sad that Mormons think people leave the faith because they want to live loosely😂

[@johnlee1352]

Foolish traditions of your fathers, huh, Chanco? There's a lot of intelligent, educated, loyal people in the church. You are not one of them. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@biankalimon9160]

​@@johnlee1352not so inteligent if they don't question things. So sad that you are so mean, but all religions have bad people in it and telling someone that you are glad that you didn't have to throw them out is MEAN, high-school BOY behavior.

[@djdingwall1]

Shelise and Lisa, It was really nice to see the two of you together discussing your stories around leaving the church. I was thrilled to see that your Mom came on as a guest. As an Ex-Mo myself now I could relate to sooo much of what was shared by your Mom. Thank You! ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Donna! Thank you for tuning in. This was a special episode for me. I'm happy it was relatable! :D

[@ReclaimedRebel]

I discovered you via SHP, and doing a deep dive on your pods. You have such good energy and the way you engage with people is very relaxed, supportive, and curious. Your gentleness is so powerful.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Oh wow that’s so kind. Thank you ❤️ welcome to C2C!

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

Do you realize that before social media there was literally no place to go to for people in cults that were wondering what games were being played with them? 😭

[@AmberBocks3000]

People went to the library. The information has been out there for decades but you had to search for it. I’ve been reading on cults for decades.

[@MaddyLockman]

​@@AmberBocks3000 In an interview with an ex-Jehova's Witness, it was explained that they even censored the word library because they didn't want them reading outside texts. Information control is everything; just because the library is there doesn't mean that the people indoctrinated will access it the same way

[@sharonthompson672]

​@@AmberBocks3000 The library was my SANCTUARY growing up. Taught me to question the status quo. 👍

[@Estimator00]

@@sharonthompson672 me too

[@Estimator00]

Before the internet I spent hours and hours in the book stores and library.

[@nanlev613]

The loss of community was the hardest part for me when I left my religion.

[@ernweist]

This was a great discussion, I love seeing this transition from both of your perspectives.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you Erin! I appreciate your feedback!

[@jonathanjars]

I really enjoyed hearing you and your mom discuss this. I had some LDS missionaries that were trying to convert me for a while. I was living near Kirtland, OH. I kept meeting up with them because I was interested in learning their beliefs, even though I had no intention of converting. I was raised Pentecostal and I'm pretty grounded in my beliefs. I did feel very bad for the girls who were assigned to me. I felt like they were so young, far away from their families and friends, and so I tried to befriend them in a way, even though I knew they couldn't really be friends with me. I tried to make them feel comfortable, took them to Panera, and tried to ask them questions to challenge their mindset. They were very sweet kids, and I did enjoy talking to them.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Jonathan! That's sweet of you to engage with them in a friendly way. They really just have no idea what they are getting into when they sign up. They are barely even adults, spreading the only information (wrong or limited) that they have on the church, thinking they are doing God's work. They deserve the compassion you gave them.

[@kenburwood]

Part of sending them off so far away and restricting their access to their families and all the strict rules is really about deepening their indoctrination. It's part of the reason they do it so young too before they start coming into their own and running into more things that will make them question more. They're still in a well known vulnerable place at that point in their lives, which it true for most people at that point, whether in the religion or not. It's a major point of early life transition where there are still a lot of unknowns. The missionaries themselves of course don't realize that's what's happening, and the church would never admit it. Interestingly though, the church HAS explicitly said that missions are also to "strengthen the missionary's own testimonies" too... Which, when you step back and look at it, is really just another way to say that it's to deepen the indoctrination.

[@provoked3342]

I'm a newer subscriber and loved how peaceful this conversation was between the two of you. I was never part of any church, but have always struggled with my beliefs in a higher power or an afterlife, and your mom describing her beliefs now have brought me so much comfort. I just felt it was important to share that.

[@Godhelpus62]

What an awesome interview! I just loved your mom and her perspective. I miss my mom so very much. I’m happy you cherish the time you have with your awesome loving mom. My mom was raised extremely Catholic - educated in a cloistered convent school (where the nuns never leave the convent). Then a regular all girls Catholic school and Catholic university. She & my dad had us 10 children (I’m #10). Over the years she became discouraged about the church not living up to its own teachings and eventually left Catholicism, furthered her education (two Master’s degrees) and became a Unitarian Universalist pastor. I also left the church in college, becoming a mainstream Christian. Today I am a progressive Christian. I love your channel because it helps me learn so much about how so many religions have become destructive. Having had such a liberal minded and well educated mom really shaped my current beliefs and ability to love and respect people of all religious traditions and spiritual perspectives or none at all. The church I am in is LGBTQ accepting and believes God loves you however you are. It’s important to me that everybody, no matter who they are feels welcome in my church without judgement. Your mom is right - we need to be able to live, respect and be friends with people whether they belong to our faith or none at all. 🙏🏻💗

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks for sharing! I’m happy you enjoy the channel!❤️

[@12cowwoman]

Crazily enough, I bought new garments in February - having to yes, show my valid temple recommend in order to purchase them - and left the church in May 🙈 But it was a process going on for a few years, thinking that if I only go to the temple more often, my feelings might change..., but they didn't, so here we are... 😁 So grateful you have your parents on this journey with you!

[@sweeterrace]

I had to have a valid recommend for the first set (well I was going for myself so my hubby had to get them for me) but have bought them several times after expiration.

[@johnlee1352]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@kimmmerkim5811]

​@@johnlee1352😂😂😂 Another example of what Jesus would do!

[@kimmmerkim5811]

@@johnlee1352 He was God you are NOT. Go ACTUALLY READ your book. Not just the parts you want.

[@cicelyryan4402]

I enjoyed this podcast immensely. Lisa, I am so glad you chose to do this despite your nerves😊. You two would be such fun to sit and visit with. I am a woman who, three years ago, learned that I was born into a cult ( Jehovah’s Witnesses). One of the things I have discovered these past three years is how much JW’s and LDS women have in common. It was sweet for me to see you two able to leave your high control organization together so your close relationship is not jeopardized. I wish you both lives full of love and joy.

[@andreabontempo643]

What an amazing conversation between a mother and a daughter. I was raised Catholic and always felt it was not the right church. I am now a born again Christian and living in Utah and want to understand the Mormon church. It's so sad the things they make you do and believe.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for listening and sharing. I'm happy you found something that works for you! It was certainly difficult and a lot of it I hadn't realized how much it affected me until leaving.

[@MTknitter22]

Yes, how I understand, @Andrea Bontempo. Did you notice similarities about what we were raised in and Mormonism? I too remember asking questions of my nun teachers, my parents and getting same reactions. It was well the Pope said so or the catechism says so.

[@annemurphy8074]

What is your "new church" making you do and believe? The thing is, we don't need ANY religion to be who we are. All religion is man made. Be careful to not get pulled into another high control group. We can have a sense of belonging, connection, purpose, meaning with no religion or ideology at all. Our pure BEING is enough.

[@andreabontempo643]

@@MTknitter22 I actually checked out mentally in the Catholic Church . For some reason even as a small child I thought it was ridiculous. The whole stand up , sit down , kneel . And having to go to confession before being able to receive communion . Having to tell the priest how many times you sinned each week . I used to make things up because I really didn’t believe it was right. Anyhow I don’t really go to church . I pray to God in my own time , not feeling like I need a church . But if I find one here I’d be interested in checking it out .

[@andreabontempo643]

@@annemurphy8074 I don’t have a new church . I have a relationship with Jesus in my own time

[@Lara-EL]

I love this episode! I love watching the relationship that you have with your mom. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences with us. 🙏💕

[@lorineilson7529]

Great conversation between Mom and Daughter. Ex mormon here TBM for most of my life, When I found out about Joseph Smith's polygamy it took me down a rabbit hole where I found out more and more about things that I wasn't told while being a member. It took me awhile to deconstruct. I think that if the church was really true then they wouldn't have nothing to hide. It is another Gospel and that's what Paul warns about in the Bible. I came to Christ in 2018.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Lori! Thank you for tuning in and for your comment. There are so many rabbit holes that can take hours and hours each. I agree that it should be able to stand up to critical thinking, historical facts and modern day science if it's God's one true church.

[@somethinggood9267]

It makes me happy to read that although you left the Mormon church, you were able to have a real relationship with Jesus Christ. That is what it's all about. And you are absolutely right, the Bible does warn us about Revelations of men. A lot of quotes and modern false movements use the Bible in a way to prove what they mean, instead of using the Bible to change the way that they think. In other words, they put their own meaning in the Bible and they use the Bible as a way to force people to do what they want, instead of what God says is right

[@susanskidmore8209]

No organization is perfect. But Jesus is perfect. He won’t ever fail us❤️

[@walkerlocker6126]

Girl I subbed to you in a heartbeat. Found you on AltWorldly's channel. I was raised in the CoLDS from birth, first left as a teenager, went back and forth with it a few times until I left for good. Even now, over 10 years later, I still struggle with the weird way my brain was trained to think. I've come a long way by myself. It's so bad that I still have a hard time encountering outright mockery (such as that musical), like I can't even watch it because it feels like a personal attack even though I haven't identified as LDS Mormon for YEARS. I don't represent them, so why do I still feel that way? That's how deep this crap runs, and only recently have I decided to finally face head on all the issues I had with the teachings. Thank you so much for starting this channel. Leaving by myself was nigh impossible and the only reason I was able to do it was my attraction to women. I basically had no choice, I couldn't take it anymore. I tried everything and I just couldn't pray the gay away, lol. Having another voice with experience is so crucial and I wish I had met someone like you when I was younger!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Thank you for being here! And sharing your story. I’m not familiar with coLDS. Is that similar to FLDS? I’m so happy you’ve gotten out of that toxic environment. It’s not safe for most people but certainly 100 times worse for the LGBTQ+ community. Here for you! ❤️🙏

[@dogcrazy25]

@@CultstoConsciousness is this Church of Latter Day Saints (CoLDS)?

[@Amandadear0812]

So similar to Scientology. Your mom is beautiful and so are you. I’m so glad we all got out. Totally different theology but very high control. God Bless you both

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you ❤️

[@realbedo]

Also this is amazing, so happy to see you and your mom together. All the unanswered questions and secrets and the perfect apearences.. It's heartbreaking

[@celiwhaaat6285]

About the Garments: I am very much into fashion history and it sounds like they are a variation of the “normal” underwear worn for centuries: a white long shirt and later some form of breeches/drawers. And this made a lot of sense, when they are made of linen and you want to protect your expensive outer clothing from your body oils and sweat and stuff. And women were protected from the corset bones. But: the shirts accommodated your outer clothing, so you could wear that of the shoulders evening dress of your dreams while still protecting it from you. The way I understand it is that the Garments are functioning as a border of skin that can be shown and what must be hidden and that just sound soooo annoying to me. I really enjoyed this conversation as someone from Europe who has never even met a Mormon before. I wish you all the best. :)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Great comment! I am also into fashion. Got my degree in it :D so I find it very fascinating. You are right about them being quite normal for the time period. What I learned (someone should fact check me though) is that they initially wore them in utah to signal to others that they were mormon. It was a way to distinguish the saints. Then they became more and more about modesty as time went on.

[@annapierce2604]

I lol’d at the part about wearing the garments under your bra. I wear a tank under mine because I feel like it makes the under wire more comfortable. The less frequent hand washing of bras is a plus. Good to know I’m not completely crazy!

[@teamcougars]

You are so lucky to have such a beautiful, loving, and obviously level headed mom who is so supportive of you and your choices 💜💜

[@hexonyou]

i loved watching this; your mom is absolutely lovely and it's so hard to pull yourself away from something that you've been so indoctrinated into from birth. Her talking about how it was your questioning that helped her realize things really resonated with me, because as a child (who went to catholic school k-8) it was often commented that my amount of questioning "may not be as welcome in a religious school environment". I think that it caused a lot of tension from people who didn't want to examine or question the things that were difficult, but I also feel like it lead me to happiness and eventually helped others to come to terms with/feel safe in questioning too. Finding yourself on the other side and approaching the world with that open mind, with a heart that desires to love; it's truly a beautiful thing.

[@josephpenderson613]

Oh my mom absolutely did NOT forget chocolate had caffeine. I was not supposed to drink hot cocoa or have chocolate candy. 😢

[@CultstoConsciousness]

No waaaaay! That sucks. Sounds like she is/was the very devout type. I only had one friend who refused to drink soda because of the caffeine and I thought she was bonkers because we never had that rule at our house. I thought she was taking it too seriously. It wasn’t until a couple years ago when I brought it up to my mom that she goes “oh yeah! Caffeinated drinks weren’t allowed but I didn’t care” 😂😂😂

[@MayBlake_Channel]

​@@CultstoConsciousness 😆

[@karol-annsorel5567]

OMG you and your mom are adorable. I love how you are together. So gentle and kind ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! 🥰 she’s the best

[@karol-annsorel5567]

@@CultstoConsciousness honestly, I've dove into the rabbithole of your channel and watched so many episode, but this one was special. I love how you both have an inquisitive mind and kind of went through the same process. I joined mainstream Mormonism in Montreal when I was in college. I was active for about 4 years, always in a young adult ward and ended up quitting because I just didn't believe in god (never had before and really tried to, but couldn't). I was shocked to learn about how intense it is in Utah! Honestly, it is very mellow here and most of the friends I made in the church are still active and very happy about it. On my end, I'm really happy to have done it because it made me a much more happy, loving and kind person. I think I was more focussed on the values, the community and the love than I was on the actual cookie stories. And joining as an adult, I didn't go through all of the purity culture. I wasn't a virgin when I joined (I became abstinent) and no one ever told me that I was less than. I honestly always talked on good terms about this church cause I really felt that it was a nice place to be if you believed in god (much more loving and inclusive than the Catholic church I was horned into). It's very interesting to see how it is used and applied in Utah and it goes to show how too much of a good thing (and not having outside influences to contend with) can be just as harmful. Sorry for the novel! 😂 All that to say that I really appreciate what you do ❤️

[@ritamariekelley4077]

I loved hear your story and seeing the unconditional love you have for one another. Loved hearing about Grandma. Your family tradition of strong, intelligent, thinking women is a wonderful legacy. I would have flunked right out of the LDS church very early. I never would have had the energy to be a human doing. I grew up Catholic and leaving that cult was one of the best moves I made. I belong to the "Church of Holy Roman Kindness." In other words, my "church" is like yours: Love is all that matters. When we show love and small kindnesses, we make the world a better place which fulfills my long-time goal. The militant "christun" movement really scares me. They want a heartless theocracy and there are a lot of them. Really enjoyable conversation!

[@kylaallen822]

Yes you still have to have a recommend to purchase garments. I left a few months ago and am still deconstructing. It is not an easy path but I am looking forward to the end and the freedom!

[@boysrus61]

It seems for me the last part is taking of my G's but I don't know why. I 100% think JS made it all up- the endowment ceremony- from the Mason's. Still working this last part of the puzzle I guess.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Kyla! So interesting. I'm just thinking of all the people who might "mess up" and get the 1 year punishment of not going to the temple...which means they can't buy new undies for a year, right? Talk about punishment. I'm proud of you for starting the deconstruction process. I remember my first few months (about 12 years ago) and it was most certainly difficult. You have my empathies! Keep going, keep reading, keep searching, keep pushing through and you'll find the guilt-free happiness you've been wanting your whole life! Thanks for being here.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

From what I hear, that's the hardest part. Maybe because it's a physical representation of leaving. Not a passing thought or a mental decision. Something tangible that signals the end of your road with the church. Sending love!

[@selenamccoig4017]

I don't think that's actually the rule. I've purchased then while mine was expired. All you need is your member number to show you were endowed. Like, how the heck will you ever get it renewed? The ask about wearing garments, but if you're not wearing them because you can't buy new ones, you can't get a recommend. I just think that person made a really bad mistake.

[@boysrus61]

@@selenamccoig4017 Think you are right. I actually forgot my recommend about 4 years ago (pre C) and they just looked up my number and I got them.

[@Heather.R.]

I grew up in Tremonton with you, I adore your mom! She was one of my favorite substitute teachers. So good to see you both doing so well ❤️

[@CultstoConsciousness]

No way! What a small world! What's your name? She was the BEST substitute teacher lol. Thank you for tuning in!

[@Heather.R.]

@@CultstoConsciousness I'll message you on Facebook

[@beachgirl6305]

No way! That's freaking awesome! Do you have any cool stories?

[@Dani-tp4wn]

Thank you for sharing this video, ive been watching a lot of deconstruction stuff---- which, technically hasn't helped Me in particular, I was never really religious LOL -- it's just so heartwarming and refreshing to hear a story where the parents ALSO deconstructed at the same time with their children! Crazy. It's so lovely to hear that you didn't lose absolutely everything because of it. Your mom is absolutely awesome.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Dani! Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I hear that it's very uncommon for both parent and child to leave together. I feel very lucky!

[@kasko8550]

What an exeptional, lovely and heart-touching interview! I am glad there are people like you out there! And you, Lisa, radiated love and peace - I could sense it!

[@andreamatlick5261]

This was extremely fascinating and educational. Thank you for sharing your experiences!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Andrea! Thank you so much! I appreciate the support :D

[@maryhart637]

Your Mom is awesome. What a lovely conversation. Traveling one's personal path can be challenging and but oh so rewarding when done with eyes wide open. The goodness that your family personifies is tangible and admirable. Hooray for your honesty, candor and humor.❤❤❤

[@somethinggood9267]

I really enjoyed this conversation and how you both are trying to be positive and loving and to move on.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you so much! We do our best to allow ourselves to feel the hurt and frustration while also not getting stuck in it

[@lau4545]

I'm not and never have been formally religious but I LOVED what your mom said towards the end (around 1:03) about feeling connected to the/a higher power through kindness and love and leading a happy life. So simple yet so powerful ❤

[@christinewidstrom6784]

Both you and your mother are so well spoken, and you do a great job of explaining background information nevermos probably don’t know but need to understand the conversation. Fantastic job. And as a former evangelical Christian, I related a lot to your mother’s feeling of needing to be perfect and the damage that does to you in the long run. I’ll be unraveling that for the rest of my life…. Thanks for this convo!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Christine! Wow, that's so kind of you to say. I do my best to make it interesting for people of all backgrounds to watch, so I appreciate your acknowledgement there. Thank you for sharing. It really does take a long time to unravel the programs of our upbringing. Religious or not. Thanks for tuning in!

[@ovrjoyd4u2]

The only thing people can "perfecr" in Christianity is their faith in Jesus Christ, part of the trinity whose finished work on the cross makes us acceptable. He took on our sin and because of his resurrection, we can be presented as righteous before God. Remember the thief on the cross had done NO WORKS, only believed that Jesus was the God in flesh. We do the works because of our faith in him, not to earn favor from him.

[@sylicaa4348]

Your mom has such a beautiful way of looking at the world! I'm so glad she's free to follow her consciousness, enjoy herself, and spread her love freely as she wishes.

[@Zincchromeshema]

I don't know if you realize it but people like you and the work that you're doing is inspired by the Hoy Spirit, the Truth. There are many brave souls coming forward whose life experiences, profound integrity and intelligence are exposing and clearing the organized perversion of Christ's message. Thank you for your courage and dedication to telling it like it is.

[@carabeingblue4016]

What an inspirational message. Just be you, good, bad, ugly - love yourself. That was super impactful. Thanks Shelise's Mom!

[@stereotape]

Great Video Beautiful ladies :) this is as real as it gets. I love you are having fun with what can be a difficult time in your lives. heartwarming and funny . thanks !!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you so much for tuning in and commenting your thoughts. Means a lot!

[@debbyfazfphotography]

It was a pleasure listening to your mom share! You are very similar in your amazing personalities! ❤

[@RoughStoneRollingLapidary]

You two are great! You are a lucky girl to have a mom like that. A mom that has the capacity to critically think and be open minded. My mother is so fully indoctrinated that she has never even learned the concept of critical thinking in any aspect of life. She’s hard to talk to about everything because she is truly like a child. I distinctly rememeber being around 7 maybe, and realizing that i had just surpassed my mother in intelligence. Not to say there wasn’t anything that she knew that I didn’t yet. I dont mean that. There definitely were things there. What this was was intaking new information. She knows what she was taught by her parents and the church and my dad to some extent and then there seems that there was a cutoff point around there that she hit her limit. No new information can be deposited and no existing information can be altered. It’s hard to explain. Ive been trying to deconstruct her for 33 years now. All i can come up with is that she is among the most naive people ever made. Who just so happened to grow up in Tooele, UT with a bishop father. Homemaker mother. 4 siblings. Every question on earth will be answered for her by one of three options. Herself not being one. One, her parents. Two, the church. Or three, if neither of those can answer it will fall under the category of “we aren’t meant to know that on this earth. When we die and go to heaven, all will be revealed.” Because i got that third answer about soooooo many deep questions growing up, that topic actually has been among the hardest things about learning the church wasn’t true. My whole life i have been waiting for that day when i die and every question I’ve had in this life will be answered. I thought about it all the time. About little things even. For example, when I was young i lost a bunch of chapsticks. My little chapstick collection. Vanished. For years i would get a memory of that and be excited to learn where they went. I thought all lost things would be revealed. It’s just a tiny example of how much i applied that doctrine to my life. When i found out the church wasn’t true, it was one of the first things i thought of. Oh no, i will never get all of my answers I’ve thought i would. I thought i would be able to view my entire life on a tv screen beginning to end as soon as i died. Of course, with Jesus and/or god chiming in along the way telling me which things knocked down heaven points. Wow, i just rambled way too much for a KZbin comment. My bad. This interview just really got me thinking and i identified with so much. Thank you both.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you, Stephanie! What my mom and I have is special and from what I'm hearing, pretty rare. I'm definitely grateful for that. I can see how frustrating it would be to rely on someone who isn't willing to seek answers for themselves or their children, but as we know, the programming runs deep and it's hard to place all blame on people who are a product of their environment themselves. Interestingly enough, I've heard of the "life review" thing among other non-religous spiritual communities, just in a less judgy, more "what did I learn as a soul" type of way. Maybe there is more to that, and maybe one day you'll find out where your chapstick went! lol Thanks for sharing! :D

[@happix-mo4441]

She is lucky! Since leaving mormonism my mother won't talk to me. I've learned how to handle her rejection but it's still sad.

[@jodystimm2098]

AND,. YOUR problem is, you analysis. EVERYTHING!!!!!

[@jodystimm2098]

*SH*,. reminds of an Oprah Program. Grow up!!!! Instead of calling your MUM naive, you need to love& pray for her & treating her like she is, stupid. What an AWEFUL Daughter you are. I, am sure she did the best she could. I have lost ALL respect for you. You, may be right& she false; but one does not do it at the risk of love. THAT, is NOT JESUS*WAY, not HEV. FATH...!!!!!!!

[@bingbingbaobei]

My husband and I joke that talking with my parents is like playing 7 steps to Kevin Bacon, only with the Church. Doesn't matter what we're talking about, it will end up at the Church. They're obsessed with 1 political party. That's who Jesus would have voted for. My kids are doing well in school. That's good, as intelligence is the Glory of God. I'm moving to xxx country. No, the Church isn't there! It is suffocating to communicate in this way.

[@Katertottt]

I've been binging your videos all day. I appreciate SO MUCH that you and your mom can still express the damage done even when you're not the 100% perfect Mormon. I never felt like I belonged, was never good enough, but with devout grandparents (who I lived with) is hard not to think about all of the ways you're flawed. I joke now that the thing that broke my shelf was me. I was the thing on my shelf. Thanks for doing what you do. I've been out for a long time but the affirmation is still welcome in my life.

[@user-xt3gd1fo7s]

Randomly found this. Have no affiliation with any church but familiarity with some. This was fascinating from start to finish and I’m now subscribed.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Thanks so much for your comment and your support! Happy to have you here :)

[@ellemarr7234]

I just recently found this channel and I’ve lost track of how many episodes I’ve watched. It’s all just so fascinating to hear how families reckon with their beliefs and what happens when they can come out the other side. Really love your channel ❤

[@staciebrooks2583]

I used to be a witch/newager and a couple years ago I had an encounter with God when I was suicidal and at the end of my rope. I gave my life to Christ. I hope you don’t give up on finding him because he’s better then I could ever describe. Jesus said no one comes to the father but by me. The Jesus of the Bible is the objective right answer to salvation and to know God. Life is so much more vibrant with the Holy Spirit and he opens your eyes to spiritual warfare and what’s going on

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Stacie! Thanks for your perspective on this and for sharing your story. I can't say I agree that objectively Jesus is the answer, because the definition of objective is "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts." I'm honestly very happy that you have found peace in christianity and I hope you can honor and respect the peace I have found with a God defined a little differently. Thanks for watching :)

[@millap779]

I absolutely agree with you. I'm Christian and was thinking about my own daughter amd son while listening to this video and how to strengthen their faith in Jesus. It is very sad that people who grew up in a cult, often seek truth anywhere, but not in church or the Bible. I grew up in a Christian family, but always was encouraged to have an opinion, to do the research and disagree. I believe that was one of the factor why I was able to have a strong personal relationship with Jesus. Praying for people who were hurt.

[@browniebun]

Thank you for this interview. Your mom is the best. ❤

[@ginamiller6754]

My husband was raised in a LDS home. He left it before we started dating. He could relate about his mom yelling at the kids right up until they got out of the station wagon! 😅 I had just began going to a new Christian church & when I mentioned it he said he never wanted to go. After a few months of dating he came with me because a guy kept bothering me to go out with him. I remember he said “I don’t have a suit anymore” I laughed & said what he was wearing was fine. He ended up really enjoying it & frequently came with me. We later married & 7 years went by with him coming to church with me & our daughters. It was at this point he decided he wanted to be a Christian himself & get baptized. He then invited his 2 siblings that lived nearby to church. They & their families also became Christian. The stories they tell about growing up LDS, sound very much like your moms stories.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Gina, thanks for sharing! I remember the panic of someone asking me to go to church (non denominational christian) with them when I was visiting from out of state and didn't have a dress with me. They laughed and said I could wear jeans. It's an odd sort of programming being in the LDS church. A lot of times it doesn't seem harmful. Just like wearing a dress is respectful to God, right? Except, it doesn't address the underlying issue of shame, guilt and unworthiness that follow if you don't do something as simple as wear a dress.., I'm so happy you, your husband and his family are doing great and found something that works for you!

[@ginamiller6754]

@@CultstoConsciousness thank-you 😊

[@ginamiller6754]

@cindybin2001 I attended the kids church for 6 years in the ‘80’s. My husband is ex Mormon. I know everything I need to know. I would encourage you to read the Bible. Not with the Joseph smith notes at the bottom, but as if you had never read it before.

[@ginamiller6754]

@cindybin2001 why is everything that disagrees with Mormonism “anti Mormon”? With that same reasoning I could say Joseph smith was anti Christian! I’ve spent plenty of time in a Mormon church to know it’s not true. I’ve prayed and was guided to the true Christian church-the body of believers! I would strongly encourage you to reread your Bible, not with Joseph’s notes at the bottom, but the Bible alone. Mormonism is another gospel Galatians 1:6-10.

[@ginamiller6754]

@cindybin2001 we will have to agree to disagree. I’ve read the material, attended lds meetings for 6 years and was instructed by a life long member as well as many others. You say Mormonism is the truth, I say Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him. We don’t need Joseph smith. We have Jesus.

[@aurorabr]

Loved loved loved this interview! You guys are awesome! How cool to see you and your mom’s journey and talking about it so openly! Very healing ❤️‍🩹 thank you and keep up the good work!

[@RockCityCookies]

This was so great. Such a warmth between the two of you!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! I feel very fortunate to have such a close relationship with mama bear

[@RockCityCookies]

@cindybin2001 - It's not my church. So why would I be offended by something that I am not even a part of?

[@tinkeramma]

​@@RockCityCookiesIt is my church. What's offensive about a mom and daughter having a different spiritual experience than I do and bonding in the process? If someone finds this offensive, that says far more about them than it does about Shelise or her mom. There's so much respect here for a faith they no longer believe in. Even Mormon scripture says (paraphrased) that we worship God how we want and respect all others in doing (including not doing) the same. I think a lot of Mormon folks forget that part!

[@DMills-un1tl]

OMG, the daughter’s explanation of having “the whole truth” is exactly what we were taught to say. Also, I was enticed out of Mormonism by a Christian youth group. And when I began deconstructing, I also kept this long list of questions and BEGGED people in the church to help me find the answers but they couldn’t and just told me to walk by faith. Like the mother, I would get confrontational in my desperation for answers. She is spot on when she says “no matter how far up you go, no one has the answers”. My experiences are nearly exactly the same as these two women.

[@mrsTraveller64]

This is really interesting to listen to, I have no idea how I ended up here though😊but I am now in the middle and will listen to the whole end! Greetings from Finland🇫🇮

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Elizah! So cool! I’m happy that the algorithm gods smiled down on us and sent you my way! 😁🙌 hope you finished and enjoyed it! New episode released today which goes into all the things that go wrong with sexual repression 🥴

[@sunny.sun00]

you guys remind me a lot of me and my mom. i eventually started asking questions she couldnt answer but now we have these great talks and discussions on perspective and deconstructing toxic values and beliefs. We both came to the conclusions that life is really just about being a good person and loving one another. thanks for sharing your stories, loved to hear it!

[@fotochikyo]

Yes, Jesus taught us to be a good person and love one another

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! I'm so happy to hear that! It's certainly a more rare experience to have family who deconstruct at the same time and can remain in tact. Thanks for listening!

[@luxedesignsresinart3611]

I love your moms spirit she just seems so pure and sweet

[@CultstoConsciousness]

She really is!

[@emmahayward6333]

how funny that your beautiful mama was so nervous to do this, and yet in my opinion, one of the best interviewees you've had on your channel! What a wonderful lady x

[@malteserfalcon]

I'm an ex JW and I relate so strongly..great chat makes me feel much less alone.

[@K8rtotsnKermitsauce]

OH OMG HOW SWEET😭❤️ you and your mom are so beautiful and I can feel that’s not only skin deep🫶🏻 thank you guys for sharing and trying to educate the masses!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you so much! She’s the best

[@sharonthompson672]

Being raised Catholic, there's a similarity when you say "you grew up Mormon, you never questioned it", same with us Irish Catholics, comedian Kathleen Madigan jokes about that, "we don't read the bible, we've got a priest that does that for us!" 😆😆😆 It's when you QUESTION things, trying to understand your "beliefs", your eyes get opened. Hence the reason they don't want you talking to non-members, except to recruit them. 😆 52:39 Yeah, I wanted to order my religion a la carte, so I'm not Catholic anymore 🙂👍 I loved this ladies! Thank you, so enlightening. 🙂👍

[@lorrainefranchi9105]

I went to Catholic school for 10 yrs - I never touched a bible in all that time. We had the Catholic church's interpretation of the bible called Good News for Modern Man ( which, of course we HAD to purchase from them)

[@teamcougars]

Your mom has such a beautiful energy ❤

[@sunnymoondog]

I love the daughter's voice of reason. 💓

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I really appreciate that! :D I do my best. Thanks for the support!

[@sunnymoondog]

@cindybin2001 yes, her mom left a cult that was making them miserable.

[@CheeseCake5990]

I envy your ability to talk with your mom and to ask her questions, and I'm so happy for you all that you were comfortable to question and grow and whatnot.

[@QuinnPrice]

What works to influence people to leave toxic belief systems are 4 things; 1) keep lines of communication open (with respect, proximity), 2) acknowledge their concerns because you had the same viewpoints, and 3) ask questions, 4) when they're ready, share resources for meeting their level of readiness.

[@tessablake7126]

Thank you for this. I'm currently one foot in one foot out. My questioning started because of NDE's and I began to feel that the church is a little too strict in many ways. My view is that its not so much about religion, but about loving and learning. I also felt my relationship with God has been different than what the church taught. I used to feel very anxious in prayer to God, but God reached out to me in such a kind way when I felt I wasn't even a remotely worthy or holy person. I don't mind just attending the church on a regular basis, but I have no real desire for the temple. My problem is that my patriarchal blessing seems so accurate and it directs me that way. Its causing issues for me for certain, but I am grateful for you and other honest people for sharing their journey. Its giving me courage to at least continue to pursue the truth and hopefully, I'll figure it out soon enough.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I don’t remember if I said it in this interview, but when I was a kid, I mentioned a book my mom told me about where the author had an NDE. they immediately shut me down and said if the author wasn’t Mormon I shouldn’t read it. Follow your gut. Follow what gives you the most inner peace. God wouldn’t want you to be in emotional turmoil. Wish you the best of luck on your journey!❤️

[@TheForestCrone]

Good job, mom. Even though you raised them in the church, something you see as a mistake that you feel guilty for (and shouldn't btw), you raised your kids with the tools to leave the church. That's what matters in the end. They're obviously independent, free thinking adults who aren't traumatized despite being raised Mormon, so good for you!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I agree, Andie! She did a killer job with the information she was given. She's the best.

[@Annsunshine30]

Your mum is wonderful, so bright and honest. It was pure joy listening to her! x

[@ellemarr7234]

Right? I could listen to her speak for hours 😊😊😊

[@TooBrokeToAffordCoffee]

Oh gosh, the “no playing cards” brings back memories from my childhood 😂

[@nachosisterwife]

I love this mother-daughter chat! Thank you for sharing your story. ❤

[@naholamills1263]

Your Mom is AWESOME!!! 🥰

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Right?! Love her

[@aevanhoutte]

I love your mom’s philosophies. Thanks for having her on!

[@almabelhumeur6672]

I enjoyed both you ladies sharing your truth with us. I am also happy that you found a new church. I left the Roman Catholic Church 42 years ago and have never looked back. I like your mother am still respectful to people who are Catholic. Catholics also believe they are the true church. I like to go to different Christian churches. Some are Alliance, Gospel Hall, Salvation Army, Baptist, Church of the Nazareen. I do not like Pentecostal churches. Charismatic Christianity is not for me. After listening to your testimony the Morman church isn't all bad. I can see that you did believe and tried so hard to be perfect and as you said no one is perfect. Many things go through our heads when we have questions but we are human. You are right we need to focus on love and be kind. Good message mom.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Alma! Thank you for watching and giving your kind feedback. I'm happy you were able to find something that works for you as well. And I agree, mormonism is certainly not 100 percent bad. Unfortunately, it's the bad stuff that sticks with us the most even after we leave which is why we tend to speak on that more than gaining favorable morals. Ugh, the perfectionism is so tough. Thanks for sharing!

[@almabelhumeur6672]

@@CultstoConsciousness Becoming a Christian can be that way too, at least it was for me. That is the reason I do not like charismatic churches. They preach perfection speak in tongues which gives me the creeps, always has and always will. I no longer am hard on myself anymore,

[@savannahsmiles1797]

Alma I grew up around so many different denominations. My family had the saints, southern baptists, and the chosen. I loved the Pentecostal churches as they weren't hell fire and brimstone like my staunch Baptist upbringing. They had joy, we had it pounded in us that we were going straight to hell if you didn't get to the altar call every sunday and repent.

[@almabelhumeur6672]

@@savannahsmiles1797 I got saved through the charismatic movement and I was never comfortable in it. Through Bible study I learned that the Pentecostles go by the 7 fruits of the spirit. Speaking in tongues does no one any good if they do not understand what is being said. I find it very spooky and chilling. They say follow your gut and my gut tells me it is not good. Each to own. I found they preached perfection also. I really feel that the church needs to be honest with us but not in the way of putting fear in us because our God is love. Amen!

[@cherrinorton2141]

Wow…. This video with your mom helped me to release a lot of guilt… my mom was a single mother when my brother, mom and I was baptized. I was 8 yrs old. It has been a long a really tough journey. My husband and I were married in the temple. (Both 19) We are still married 41 years. I have joined the church twice, left twice. I still have my garments stored in the closet. Now I feel like I can purge them. You both helped me be free. I was told during a non- church weekend Christian retreat that the angels were rejoicing because I left the church. My husband during our research, found the unedited copy of Joseph Smith’s Journal, which was so eye-opening. Anyway, happy I found you! Btw. I always had 2 interviews for my temple recommend, one with the bishop and one with the state president. In your interview with your mom, she just mentioned one with the bishop. Was curious about that. Also about your 2 brothers, are they still in the church? Such a great interview. Wish I could be friends with your mom. She’s a great, kind, loving person. Best to you both. Thank you so much ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! I’m so happy to hear that! Guilt and shame are such heavy and unnecessary burdens to carry. Thanks for sharing ❤️❤️❤️

[@seattlegirl2077]

Excellent and enlightening to someone not associated with the Mormon faith. Thank you.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

thank you so much! I'm really happy that it all made sense. I always try to make sure and explains things in a lengthened way, so those who aren't mormon can enjoy and understand it as well.

[@seattlegirl2077]

@@CultstoConsciousness Your mother did a wonderful job!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

@@seattlegirl2077 🥰🙏

[@haylee.strange]

I'm currently leaving the church and your videos hit home. I love how you approach things gently and balanced. I would really love to see a video where you go over the questions you had in you faith crisis binder!

[@haylee.strange]

And yes, you do still need to have your recommend to get garments lol

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Haylee! My heart goes out to you! Thank you for watching with an open mind. Maybe we will do that at some point. Although our channel doesn’t generally focus in on doctrinal things. If your curious, the main things to research are: -the book of Abraham (incorrect/proven wrong translation) -Joseph smith and how many polygamous wives he had. The cheating, lying, and coercing. -the many many versions of the first vision (all differing greatly) -blood atonement (enforced by Brigham young) -the Adam/god theory -DNA and the BOM -anachronisms in the BOM -the witnesses of the BOM (either excommunicated or left the church. Never saw it with their physical eyes) -the strong correlation between free masonry and the temple rituals/clothes/symbols. Found all over early temples -mountain meadows massacre (ordered by BY to slaughter over 100 men and women in utah) Also, I might point you in the direction of LDSdiscussions.com where all these topics are deeply researched and cited using many church resources. Wish you the best!!

[@haylee.strange]

@@CultstoConsciousness Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I will definitely research some of those recommended things. Thanks for all you do!

[@lauramoss30]

Your mom is "da bomb"! Lol. She's so adorable and witty and wise. I left the church later in life, as well (50ish). Does she still live in the Portland area? I would love to meet up with her for coffee sometime! 💕

[@CultstoConsciousness]

haha she IS da bomb! We always have fun and interesting conversations. Good for you! No she is back in Utah now. If you ever visit, you should definitely connect!

[@bdbdkbdbd]

love that u still seem like a pro interviewer/host even with ur mom!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! 😁

[@tishamonroe7418]

yes! this was so interesting. I also wondered how Covey,who was so smart, was caught up in this tale by Joseph S. I died laughing at your"just don't tell anyone" story. you are both smart and funny!I have read numerous unapproved history books about Joseph S and Mormonism. joseph was a mason with a wild imagination and slick slimy sales person.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Tisha! I'm happy you enjoyed it! :D Thank you for your compliments! It really is wild when you read about the backstory of JS including that of his family, who was treasure digging long before JS gave it a shot.

[@atherisGAY]

Your mom is a lovely person. I am so glad you guys are on good terms and well.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you so much!

[@c.p297]

Wow! Amazing! What a great conversation. You both are such beautiful ladies! I loved listening to what you both had to say. I am too an ex-mormon and I am loving life so much more outside of that religion. Everything you both had to say resonated with me. Entire time I was like "Oh ya, I remember that, I felt that same way, and I remember those days"🤣! Thank you to both of you for sharing your life experiences and how you feel, the world needs more amazing people like you! 🥰😇

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Wow, what a sweet comment! Thank you so much, it means a lot! I'm realizing after seeing the comments of so many people that this episode, which I thought was a pretty simple representation of a "normal mormon life" was exactly what people wanted to hear. The mundane, the relatable and the emotions that come with deconstructing it. Thank you for watching and engaging!

[@thnkfrtheVenom]

My dad has a similar story to marrying someone not through the church because the church disapproved. He was catholic, but because my mom was divorced, they wouldn't allow them to marry in the church.

[@rockytreadway]

Yes, you still have to have a recommend to buy the Jesus Jammies. I love this conversation!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Jesus Jammies?! hahah I died laughing. Thanks for sharing and thanks for being here! :D

[@KDG702]

Just want to say- I found your channel recently, and have been loving your content. It’s been helping me realize how not-alone I am since leaving the Mormon church. It’s great to hear your stories and the stories of others who you’ve brought on here. Thank you for all you do. Btw, go rebels

[@Nia-Kenia]

My Christianity deconstruction started the same way - not being able to answer or get answers to my 13 yr old daughter’s questions. I started researching and WOW! The penny dropped. Awesome interview. Thx for sharing 💞

[@doe729]

Is this really Christianity? I don’t think so. It’s a perverted twist on Christianity and some crazy man’s thoughts put down into a book.

[@SaraHobbs]

Love this Podcast! Love your mom's story! Thank you for being vulnerable and willing to speak out truth!

[@skyjust828]

I had a NDE 5 yrs after leaving "the church" & saw my VERY Mormon grandma (P. Hilda Oaks) & my VERY Mormon Aunt (who's job from leaving high school till death was ancestral records in SLC) were becoming me into cross the bridge. So yes you do see family after death & leaving "the church"🥰

[@annemurphy8074]

I had 2 NDE's myself and saw that it doesn't matter what religion we follow or don't follow. They are all man made. In my NDE's it was pure awareness, unconditional love and zero judgement. There was no "God" from any religion that was handing our rewards, punishments or judgements. I saw where evil comes from, it is basically not knowing who we all are, being confused and fearful. I saw that nobody is ever left behind.

[@eleanorbertuch135]

A very very lovely visit. May God’s choicest blessings fall on you and yours😇❤️

[@daffodilfleur]

So much to say here, but, for one, temple work is so incredibly much more than a bunch of "ritualistic things", but I can't give anyone the experiences that I've had. I cannot give anyone what I know, and that's why we all need to learn and discover for ourselves. I realize that many people leave, and I have a good number of those in my own family. I choose to stay because I know that this is the way. I know Christ lives and I love this church. The people are imperfect, but all are. I, too, am imperfect, and I know what Christ has done for me in my life. I acknowledge the good that I've received from being a member of the Church, and I hope to be one that will help others along the way as they seek for the truths that are available, but not always understood. I have a loved one that has a serious addiction that has caused me considerable pain. I have felt Christ's love going through this torture, and it's because of Him that I am still here. I find Him in the scriptures and, yes, in the Book of Mormon. Perhaps it's been good that I've had this kind of pain in life; it's taught me a lot and it's taught me that I love the Church and all that goes with it.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I also had incredible spiritual experiences within the church. I personally learned later that those experiences were not because of or tied to the LDS church and I have continued to have even more intense spiritual experiences after leaving. However, if the church makes you happy and feel connected to God, then I'm happy for you.

[@slednix8215]

I'm like 10 months late on watching this but I have to say, happy birthday Mama Consciousness! What a wonderful conversation.