How much damage can plastic weapons do? (150g combat robots)

This week we see how much damage we can really do with a plastic weapon on a 150g robot
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[@AmericanKilljoy]

It might be cool to see a Cobalt-style single-tooth weapon to see how high you can launch your opponents with a plastic disc. Maybe not the most damaging, but might be a great spectacle. Great stuff as usual, Ben!

[@tyson_J]

I would suggest going with a long thin bar, similar to what Robert Cowan used an anxiety attack to try to get more slicing damage on the overhead.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

I'll give that a shot, I'm not sure how a thin plastic impactor will go. but hey if it explodes that will be interesting

[@xiancode3682]

Fun bots! One idea for your 150g plastic bot printed saw, consider using glow in the dark filament. The glowing stuff in the filament will act as an abrasive for the blade.

[@straw-hatsnivy5749]

Really cool what you did with the plastic, it is safer than metal as well, which is better for me, as I do not have a league or club near me. Because of this, I have only made a wedge in the past week for safety.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Yes plastic is safer, but the amount of energy stored is still quite high and if it breaks the pieces go flying at high speed. Please always have something between you and a robot with an active spinning weapon

[@chadzilla]

i think you have done a good test, what about poly carbonate as a weapon material not 3d printed but true pc sheet

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

I have some PC sheet here and was planning to test it but double checked the rules for ARC first: 4.4.1. PET, PETG, ABS, PLA, PLA+ and MFD and Plywood timbers are the only materials that can be used for the chassis and weapons. No other types of plastics or materials allowed (ie. metal, carbon fiber, UHMW, etc). So a PC weapon is currently not permitted but might be if asked for. (looking at the list again though I should try some PETG weapons at some point)

[@LiamAnjewierden]

@@TeamPanicRobotics Wooden spikes at the tip of a weapon? may be too heavy though

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

That could be interesting. Might explode though.... hmmmmm, might have to try that

[@jackshepherd702]

Hey, I'm totally new to bots and currently building my first ant " 150g " . Thoughts on the bar spinner... turn it into a SOW triangle with smaller/lower/pointyer tips ... the triangle shape adds strength and a floor hugging upwards angled tips could penetrate or flip over another ant maybe? If any of that makes sense haha

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

A SOW triangle would look cool.... hmmm I might give that a shot

[@razer259]

That ABS saw completely blew my mind when it sliced through its own material! 🤯 (But why did you have to use the legendary This Is A Party as a practice target? 😢 It deserved better than that!) I remember during the last ARC event there was a compact vert spinner version of The Force competing in the plastic B-class, and it did quite a decent amount of damage from what I saw.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

I know right?!? me too! I was kind of expecting it to go through PLA but ABS cutting ABS was super unexpected (yeah, maybe, it was just the closest ABS print to hand I have 4 battle damaged chassis on the lower shelf of the shelving rack) Yeah I might look at doing a plastic version of This Is A Party, see if that does more damage then the horizontal

[@iowarobotfighting]

Love the thorough testing and design you go through. We're aiming to do the same on our end with all the different potential variants of weapons, armor, and drive systems. We'll keep an eye on your stuff to see what insights we can gleam. If you don't mind, please keep an eye on ours. We would love your input on our process as we move forward.

[@jirkajavora5465]

Try going for smaller faster weapons (the demage usually comes from energy transfered over time - the formula for kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2 so getting more speed is more benefitial then weight in terms of energy and smaller weapon will also shorten the time it will take for the transfer thus increasing impact force) - drum might be a good idea. Also try to go for a faster saw - this is really where you need as much energy as possible, because you're transfering it with a very high efficiency so every little bit counts.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Some other people have suggested a vertical spinner so I might look at doing a vertical spinner with a very high tip speed and a lighter weight blade (something like 20g)

[@QuentinRevell]

For plastic spinners, it's less about armour damage and more launching the opponent around with sheer kinetic energy.

[@markxr1]

Maybe you can make the overhead spinner a much lighter, mostly complete disc, but still fit some teeth to it, for lower weight and better aerodynamics, so the motor doesn't need to work so hard to keep it moving. Typical metal weapons at that scale are usually thin sheet material, like 1-2mm at most, not the great hulking chunk you've got on there, perhaps the aero resistance is limiting the top speed?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

I think you are right, the motor did struggle to get the weapon up to speed and I'm pretty sure it never got to the max speed of the motor, so a disk or full body spinner would probably spin up better

[@DangerousPictures]

have you thought about using some of the notoriously abrasive filaments like carbon fiber nylon or wood dust for the saw?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Wood dust is interesting, and might be legal, but carbon fiber nylon is not, at least in the plastic league at my local event. They have a limit on what plastics are allowed and nylon is specifically banned the list does allow for wood though, so a wood filled pla might actually be legal

[@teamgetwreckedcombatrobots776]

I was really impressed by the plastic saw. How much does it weigh in comparison to the normal one? I ask this because if the plastic saw weighs less than the metal saw you could probably use it for the saw bot permanently to save weight for armor since it seems to be just as effective.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Its 4g compared to the 9g of the metal saw. 5g is a decent amount to save in a 150g bot, the only difference I can see is that the plastic saw is not going to damage bot internals or wooden bots (there are some of those at ARC because our beginners kit is laser cut). I think I'll keep it as an option and use it when I think it will work best against a certain opponent

[@peterg2872]

I feel like the weapon motor is underpowered for the size of the weapon. I think putting on a larger motor would fix the spin up issues and cause a lot more damage. You were right on at the end of the video.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Yeah, the last time I put a heavy weapon (45g) on an ant I used a bigger motor, but 45g was the heaviest I could make weight with. I tried a smaller motor this time, to have more weight to put into the weapon. Turns out that was a bad idea

[@trevormiller1366]

Maybe try hiding some brass knuckles inside the spinner ends for a bit more punch 😁

[@teamsmokeyrobotics]

Hey, what about aluminum for a weapon? It's much harder than plastic but softer than steel, but 3 times lighter. I am entering my US antweight robot into a competition with a large 60 mm radius 190 gram aluminum disk spinner that has very high kinetic energy, but it's also quite soft for a weapon. Due to aluminum's low density, you can make the spinners larger and deliver decent hits. Perhaps you could do a video on it? Great video as always :)

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Hey I only dared to use plastic as a weapon because these were for a plastic class, no metal is allowed on the outside of a bot in this class, so they'd only be in plastic-on-plastic collisions Unfortunately, there is no aluminium-only class, so to run a pure aluminium weapon, you'd have to run it against robots with hardened steel weapons and sometimes hardened steel armour. In a high-speed hit between an aluminium weapon and a tool steel one, I can guarantee that the aluminium weapon will be destroyed The way around this is to use an aluminium body and hardened steel teeth, this is what Tombstone does on this longest bar and what Gemini did in 2019 (the bulk of the disk was ali, with only the teeth being hardened steel)

[@DigitalJedi]

I've been thinking of making a bar for my 150g undercutter out of a plastic sheet. The thought process is sort of like this: Trace outline of a battlebot's bar onto the sheet. Dremel out the rough shape. Trim it down. Ballance, and test.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

That would work well

[@DigitalJedi]

@@TeamPanicRobotics Thanks for the reply. Do you have any recommendations for a weapon motor? I've been trying to find something but don't know what to look for.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

1806 motors are standard for the 150g class Anything smaller and they brake too easily during hits Anything bigger and you run out of weight in your bot

[@DigitalJedi]

@@TeamPanicRobotics Thank you for the information! I'll keep that in mind while I do my part shopping.

[@Smokin_Snowman]

The 50g spinner bot should be named "Grandson of Whyachi" Or goldfish of whyachi because I think grandson may exist already

[@Smokin_Snowman]

What I'm trying to say is, that little bot looks kinda like a mini Son of Whyachi

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Now I just want to print a 3 pronged spinner for it

[@Smokin_Snowman]

@@TeamPanicRobotics you definitely should lol

[@ThyrusEvo]

You could go for a vertikal Spinner that uses rubber or the same kind of silicone that you use for the wheels to throw others around if that counts as plastic weapon?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Hmmmm not sure it would count, the materials allowed are quite limited, but I might try a vert sometime soon

[@mrbk5916]

Maybe try a disc for the big over head spinner see if that makes all the difference on spinning up or a single tooth disc might make all the difference and if that still has issues maybe try a pully system maybe that might make it more reliable

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

A disk or full body spinner would probably spin up better

[@dingodog5677]

Do the rules allow ceramic weapons? Heavier and harder.

[@sonnyweston5293]

Hi Ben I’m building a Antweight in the U.K. I’m looking at building a spinner bot can you advise me on a motor that will work with my 7.4 v 120mah battery ? Thanks

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

As mentioned in your other comment. I use 1806 brushless motors for most of my antweights. Search 1806 on ebay, aliexpress, banggood or where ever else you buy components online and you should find a bunch of options. All of them should work fine

[@markxr1]

Is using a hard chemical curing resin for the spinner tips (e.g. mould it in a 3d printed mould) against the spirit of the rules? Those plastics like abs, nylon etc, surely would be no match? Is there an official list of allowed materials? Is it thermoplastic only?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

This is the main rule: 4.4.1. PET, PETG, ABS, PLA, PLA+ and MFD and Plywood timbers are the only materials that can be used for the chassis and weapons. No other types of plastics or materials allowed (ie. metal, carbon fiber, UHMW, etc).

[@ShadowDrakken]

Is 150g plastic ant weight different from the normal 150g fairy weight?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Main difference is that the plastic class has a set list of materials you are allowed to make chassis and weapons out of Its mostly common 3d printing filaments, and MDF But these are not standardised rules, they are a custom rule set run at ARC

[@timmytheimpaler1750]

im thinking impregnated grit saws

[@404RBTCS]

What exactly do you mean by “12 perimeters ” when talking about the bar? I’m still fairly new to 3D Printing and have never heard the term “perimeters” before. Also, do the rules allow you to use screws as weapon teeth?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

By 12 perimeters I mean the number of walls printed into the part. In Cura this setting is called "wall thickness" its literally how many times the nozzle lays down plastic in the perimeter shape each layer I do it because more walls/perimeters gives a stronger part then increasing the infill This video is a great explanation of it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3_ddaVnjqaVbrM

[@fxdnitrous6528]

How much does the brushless test platform,

[@zjanez2868]

i think it does about 5

[@takoza5396]

so i was just wondering other then ABS being lighter why not PETG ?

[@takoza5396]

for the frame of the bots

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Honestly I've not tried PETG because I dont have any and have never printed any. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not its easier to print them ABS. So I've stuck with ABS chassis because I can print them, they are light and quite strong

[@bbluuree]

That was awesome! Can I have the stl file?

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

I have some STL files on thingiverse and My Mini Factory. which are the only ones I've released

[@bbluuree]

@@TeamPanicRobotics Thanks

[@howardbartlett3419]

From my recollection, isn't PLA actually harder than ABS? Sure it is less durable, but I feel like PLA could have made a better weapon surface than ABS.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

PLA is harder then ABS but not stronger. PLA is brittle and shatters if it breaks which is why I didnt use it for the teeth, I didnt want them to break in half on the first hit

[@trjozsef]

What changed in the rules? Let's lawyer it: If it's no exposed metals in the weapons, you can still get an encased tungsten tip for a ridiculous stored force. Acrylic - if allowed - may give you an edge figuratively and literally.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

This is the main rule: 4.4.1. PET, PETG, ABS, PLA, PLA+ and MFD and Plywood timbers are the only materials that can be used for the chassis and weapons. No other types of plastics or materials allowed (ie. metal, carbon fiber, UHMW, etc). So while an encased tungsten tip may meet the letter of the law it breaks the spirit of it. And the plastics class is a class for new people to get involved with and try out. Its not a class I want to go in and dominate with a bot that's just inside the rules

[@trjozsef]

@@TeamPanicRobotics With your experience you will dominate it anyway, it may not be a class for you.

[@TeamPanicRobotics]

Agreed, which is why I mostly stay out of it, or run robots that dont really have a chance, like my mask bot or flaming dragon. I made this video more to assuage the fear of weapons in the b-league class then I did to find a way to dominate the class

[@EleanorPeterson]

'Saw bot' sounds like a bad case of nappy-rash. [Sore bot. Sorry. If I don't lower the tone, nobody else will.]