How Much Do Model Train Motors Really Cost? | £2 vs. £27

[@mattp1337]

There's still the question of long term durability, but at a tenth of the cost it'd have to be very poor indeed to negate the bargain price. Nice research project. Thanks for doing this.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes you're right! I've been using these since 2018 - no failures as of yet! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@steffenrosmus1864]

It is the same motor !!!@@@@

[@mattp1337]

@@steffenrosmus1864 Visually almost identical, sure, but appearance tells us little. Examples of low-quality knockoff products abound: just set foot in any dollar store.

[@steffenrosmus1864]

@@mattp1337 not only visual those motors were built in China to the millions for most of the model rr companies. If you open both motors and check the interior you will find out they are identical. Built model re remotoring kits for brass engines for 40 years now and found this situation nearly everywhere

[@mattp1337]

@@steffenrosmus1864 If you say so, but the whole point is that you can't know from some random eBay listing whether it's identical or a low-quality knockoff. This video at least gives some independent reassurance that quality motors equivalent to the branded product exist at this price.

[@paulnewnes1921]

brilliant Sam just shows how we are being ripped off by the prices of modern locos. Could you do similar with a replacement Bachmann motor?

[@SamsTrains]

It would be harder with Bachmann - I've not found any suitable replacements - it seems they might even use their own proprietary motors. If true, this is even worse of course, since you can't do any other than buy from Bachmann - also at £17 a piece, and those are just 3-pole! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@donsharpe5786]

@@SamsTrains I am not convinced that the Bachmann 3 pole is as good as the Hornby 5 pole.

[@ameliaclark7050]

Sam can you do a video on different types of motors ie 3 pole 5 pole etc and explain the differences. Even the old motors as I have old second Hand locks. Thanks

[@kiwitrainguy]

I have both Bachmann & Liliput locos and the motors all have Bachmann stamped on them so they must get their motor supplier in China to do that. As for the motors being only able to be fitted in Bachmann locos & Bachmann/Liliput locos only able to take Bachmann motors, I'm not so sure.

[@kelvinstapleton7516]

In my experience the Bavhmann love will out perform the hornby loco every time, so much so I loathed to buy anything Hornby these days Especially in a commercial situation. I have swapped several castle/county motors with cheaper alternatives and they still work and usually fail with other faults I also struggled to find a replacement for the Bachmann

[@dansmodelrailways7886]

That’s probably the most useful video I have watched for model railways. Considering I buy up non runners to bolster my own fleet. Thanks. I will order some motors. 👍🏻

[@SamsTrains]

Really glad to hear that Dan - thanks so much!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@DarthSantaFe]

I believe the original Hornby motor is a Kato HM5, which actually does not have a skewed armature, so that could explain the difference in slow speed performance. The new motor appears to be the HM5 copy used by Atlas and a few other manufacturers making their trains in China. I haven't pulled one of these apart before, but's it's very possible they have a skewed armature unlike the Kato motor. I almost never buy brand new motors from the manufacturers anymore. By looking around for surplus or direct Chinese motors with the correct specs (or pulling from old CD drives and printers), you can often save anywhere from 50% to 90% off of buying from the manufacturer, and sometimes end up with a better motor!

[@SamsTrains]

Yes - it does seem to be the same size as the Kato HM5! I've pulled motors like this apart before, they did appear to be all but identical to the Hornby ones - though this was some time ago! You're right - I won't be buying from the major manufacturers again, unless there's no alternative! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@SMTMainline]

I agree, there isn't really anything special about model train motors. There might have been years ago when manufacturers like Rivarossi were making their own motors specifically for model trains but today the only company that I know of still making their own motors is Roco.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks mate - it would seem not! You're right! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@turbinegraphics16]

Its exactly the same, when the factory finishes making the hornby motors they make a slight change and make extras for themselves. Same thing happens with rc and drone parts.

[@SamsTrains]

Duly noted, many thanks for the info! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@redoktopus3047]

do you have a guide for someone just getting into the hobby who wants to buy these parts to build their own locos?

[@MoonlightFox]

Wow! The crawl on that one is insane!

[@SamsTrains]

I know - the best I've ever seen actually! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@MoonlightFox]

@@SamsTrains I'm actually a little curious to know wether that's down to her having a unusually low gear ratio, or if she's got especially low friction..or both? It's so much better that I can't help asking myself "Why aren't they all made like that?"

[@robmasterman]

An amazing comparison Sam, and an indication that once again, the large companies are ripping us all off. If you can buy a motor that cheaply, which is the heart of the loco, what's the real cost of the other components!!...Thoroughly enjoying your current uploads during these difficult times....Keep them coming...Bob

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much Bob - yes it would seem so, at least where motors are concerned!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@christianevangelista]

One thing that I have found to improve performance on a few used models I have bought in the past was to remove the wheel sets and clean out the bearings from the driving wheels (especially if the loco tends to surge and slow at a constant rate). The slow speed improved dramatically afterwards, so it might not always mean the motor needs to be replaced. Thanks for the video Sam, always helpful to know more!

[@SamsTrains]

Yes absolutely - that's definitely a key part of the servicing, it's well worth doing! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@therealvbw]

Not even April Fools! This is absolutely astonishing... I had thought of getting a model train motor for other toy projects to save money, looks like it's the opposite!

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know - it is quite surprising isn't it?! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@therealvbw]

@@SamsTrains By the way, does this add or remove from one's level of modelrailwaymanship? :)

[@caitutton-denner12]

It runs smoth

[@lukehughes6094]

Absolutely amazing video Sam. Thank you for providing that we are being ripped off by different company's for replacement motor. An amazing experiment can not wait to see more videos like this.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Luke - really glad you enjoyed the results! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@limehuzki]

Hey what should I do if I got a blown capacitor? Like do I need special kinds of wiring to repair it?

[@miscellaneous.7127]

Great video mate! Honestly, from what I can tell Hornby's philosophy seems to be to try to sell a few products at very high prices rather than sell loads for a reasonable price. Also their customer service is pretty bad in my erperience. Airfix however, which is owned by the same company, had good prices and great customer service! When I was making my Harrier FA.2 I made a mistake and accidentally ruined one of the parts. I emailed Airfix explaining what happened and how it was all my fault and they sent out a replacement for me! Regards, Douglas

[@SamsTrains]

I guess you're right Douglas - though my argument has always been that more reasonable prices will attract more sales, and grow the hobby beyond the rich elite. Great to hear you got some good service there! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@johndovaston1531]

Amazing,, so pleased there is modellers like you ,,, it really helps people like me who find it hard to have the money to just go and buy new and sending model away to get it repaired,,a big thank you, please keep up your great work

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much John, really glad to hear that mate! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@StaxRail]

Thanks for the video Sam, it will come in handy for my DIY Class 50! In fact, please may I have the link for the Chinese motor, I might get one after the current crisis. So far for my 50, I have laser cut the frames from acrylic whilst I was at school, the bogies and wheelsets are finished, just got the electronics and bodyshells to do now!

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh that sounds very involved - hope it works out for you mate!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@cbrooks122000]

I bought some of these motors after watching the video. I fitted one to a Hornby Stanier 4p loco I was building, other than sourcing a worm drive, no issues. It worked perfectly.

[@SamsTrains]

Great to hear that! I've been using these since 2018 too - still no issues for me either! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@GaryNumeroUno]

If we used 6 or 8 pole motors they should run smoother would they not? This is right up my alley Sam. I have an avid interest in railway research... my collection of Rail Technical Centre liveried coaches and locos speaking volumes. Great to see such testing with such an interesting topic. I like your impression of the Old Dalby Test Track! Cheers.

[@SamsTrains]

I don't know much about that Gary - I think there are issues with heat dissipation/over complexity with that many poles at such a scale - I've certainly never seen such a motor this tiny! Really glad you enjoyed this though mate, haha! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@jonathanapplebee4393]

Which supplier did you use, Sam. I'm struggling to find the particular motor you show on this video

[@tomjenssen7486]

Very interesting video, Sam. I'm going to be experimenting with some motors for my custom build trains and a gear puller will be a game changer. I have a selection of Chinese motors from Ebay along with a few packs of nylon gears and worms for prototyping configurations. I'll be powering both ends of my HS trains so cost is an important factor. It's good to know that these motors are at least as good as the ones we already use. Nice one mate :))

[@SamsTrains]

I can recommend it Tom - they work fantastic! Good luck! :D Cheers, Sam :)

[@johndrew3202]

Wish I had watched this last year when I swopped a failed Hornby motor. Never mind, it still works and I will remember in future. Had a similar experience with a Bachmann motor. Like you say, get a gear puller and you are winning!!!

[@whitesands928]

I’m surprised, I expected the cheap motor to be a little behind in all tests, durability is the only issue but that’s not really an issue because of the price, just buy 10 like you did. Thanks for a great video. 👍

[@SamsTrains]

I expected that too - very pleasantly surprised! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@michaelbuckers]

The black coat of paint was the most expensive part of that motor. If you do away with that (and brass bushings) you can have the same motors for less than 30 cents.

[@SamsTrains]

Wow as little as that? Crazy! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@ciaranburke3243]

Fabulous test sam, goes to show we are being done when it comes to pricing on new models from pretty much every manufacturer of 🙀👍

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Ciaran - the results here certainly suggest that - let's hope we're not being done like this for all products! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@slaughterround643]

that's one heck of a capitalism!

[@joecompton8142]

ERROR

[@alantoms3263]

Interesting find and comparison Sam. It is true, it would be nice for a definitive database for which motor, which chassis - MN = Coronation = Princess for example. There is typically a mark-up to cover transport / transfer of ownership charges, but PERHAPS there's an additional test which avoids rogue / faulty motors? That said, at those prices you could have on good and 7 faulty and still be quids in!! Interesting presentation and thanks for sharing.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much Alan - yes that's a great idea, I could try that! :D Very interesting - you could be right! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@iceeblueburst03]

I love the Merchant Navy Class, it’s so cool! Especially the BR blue one! :)

[@SamsTrains]

I agree - they are cool! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@matbeech7518]

Hi Sam I have changed a considerable amount of my locomotives motors with these cheaper replacements and have not had a horror story yet. Had roughly the same outcomes as your tests in your video. Seems to cover quite a few manufacturers bachmanns take quite well athearn, austrains, auscision, hornby, power line, mehano, rivarossi and lima I have done replacements. Love the videos Sam very informative and helpful

[@SamsTrains]

Great to hear that Mat - I too haven't been let down by any of them yet! Thanks for sharing, Sam :)

[@aubyn3290]

With all the spare parts I'm sure you've collected over the years, have you ever tried to make an entire custom engine, a frankenstein of sorts?

[@SamsTrains]

haha I've thought about it - it certainly would be fun! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@TheRamtops]

A post apocalyptic mad max dystopian virus lockdown filthy diesel locomotive from the bowels of hell please 🤣🙂

[@KaiDiesAgain]

@@SamsTrains a class 4391580 a 43+390+158+180 with mk3 coaches (oh god thats gonna look terrible)

[@denniswheeler448]

@@KaiDiesAgain .

[@KaiDiesAgain]

@@denniswheeler448 ??

[@davebell4917]

There's a rule of thumb that at every step of a supply chain, the price doubles. That pays the costs (including taxes) and leaves a profit. By going direct to a Chinese source, you could be dropping a couple of steps, and pay a quarter of the price. And that doesn't look badly wrong for motor+worm. In this case, Hornby do get a bigger chunk of money, but they may also have higher costs, such as packaging and assembly and storage until the spare is needed, and you'd be a fool to use that rule for planning a price. I have also bought things with rather poor quality components, which I then replaced. One of the things to remember is that postage costs can be a pretty big chunk of the cost: twenty screws are not twice the cost of ten. Long term, supply chains are going to change, They've been fragile for a long time. But it may well be that we all look for suppliers with UK stocks.

[@SamsTrains]

Very true Dave, but even so, the motors from Hornby.com represent a 1395% (!!!!!) increase in price on what I paid, and that INCLUDES postage to my door! Granted Hornby need to make their money, but I think this seems excessive! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@m10cachilles43]

@@SamsTrains There is another thought here, this could be a chinese producer dumping their QA failures cheap. IE Hornby order a batch for, lets say £8 a motor, from the supplier. The Chinese supplier budgets £6 for production, knowing that each motor costs £3 to produce, but 50% won't passed a QA test for the Hornby motor (Resistance out of range on test, scratched/dented on the production line, casing out of length tolerance, etc etc). They fufil Hornby's order, and are left with a stock of motors which they've technically been paid for as part off the Hornby order. For a quick bit of extra profit they can then put the better quality cast offs on eBay, and this will be pretty much just extra profit, so they can go as cheap as they like, in this case, lower than the cost of production (since Hornby already paid for that). eBay accounts are easy to replace if an account get too much poor feedback, while Hornby have to factor in that reputational risk (hence the testing and the failures). This has happened with iPhone in China, where the Apple cast offs were ending up either on the Chinese market or eBay. You also get free postage due to China's deal with international postage (I know it's the Mail, but the core facts are correct). www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5641459/UK-retailers-furious-Chinese-firms-use-loophole-let-ship-cheap-goods-UK.html I do agree £27 is a lot for a motor however, especially when you can nearly buy another secondhand loco for the same price.

[@robstrains8711]

@@m10cachilles43 Hornby pays 50p per motor so however you want to look at it they are ripping us off. I have bought lost of these Chinese motors and every one runs perfectly and in most cases better than the Hornby ones.

[@phillyphan56]

I love experiments like this, really shows the price gouging customers suffer at the hands of the manufacturers...! They probably get each motor from China (where they build the locos anyway lol) for mere pence a piece and charge what? Crazy! Thanks as always for the awesome and enlightening video Sam! Cheers!

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right - I expect they come from a similar manufacturer, for a similar price! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@metalmicky]

They’ve been making small electric motors for years, they are hardly working hard when used and must cost next to nothing, the usual rip off for the customer.

[@thetransportationguy7930]

Which one is best for Sierra Railway 3 HO scale. Mine was repainted green. Recently the motor blow in a loud bang with a bunch of sparks and a bright blue spark in the motor.

[@reliantrailways]

Great video! Can you do a soldering iron tutorial?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Lettuce - great idea - I could try that!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@slaughterround643]

won't lie, but there are an abundance of those on youtube!

[@ennisskalski719]

I’m glad the algorithm gods put this in my path. I’m not a train modeller but I’m sort of adjacently interested, and I’ve been trying to figure out why everything to do with the hobby is so expensive. It’s almost like my questions are too basic to have any easily available answers-I thought the motor connection system must be insanely complex for no one to attempt to replace with generic parts, but as you’ve demonstrated it’s really not. I would like to learn more though, like how exactly the power gets from the wheels to the motor, and how the wheels/axles are connected to that worm gear. The next level up would be figuring out why all the dcc stuff is so expensive. It’s not as simple as the mechanical side, but in the age of smartphones I am suspicious of why some basic electronic board and simple programs are hundreds of dollars. Oh, and all the car system stuff! Rare earth magnets are extremely affordable now, and the weaker magnetic strips are dirt cheap. Magnetic paint exists too. Surely if you don’t care about setting up wireless control, all you need is a small motor, switch and battery for making the vehicle go. Or heck, find a wind up toy and stick a guiding magnet on it.

[@capmodesty]

Good video, need to source a new motor for my Bachmann Edward from the Thomas range

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh that's harder - I've not had much luck with Bachmann ones! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@youtube.youtube.01]

I used Japanese VCR motors for my Mantua Steam engines and they still run great today after 25 years.

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh sounds fantastic - you can't beat the Japanese motors! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Marco-xz9sc]

what is the link for the motor you bought?? with the single shaft, I am on finding dual shafts

[@SamsTrains]

You have to keep an eye on Ebay - they pop up and disappear quite frequently! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@renenoel2641]

Look at aliexpress, it's even cheaper than Ebay. Mabuchi motor is what I search for my french locomotives.

[@TheSergioTurbo]

@@renenoel2641 You can't go wrong with Mabuchi - they make motors for all kinds of models. Even the smaller and cheaper ones (like the type 130 they make for Tamiya's mini4wds) are ridicolously resilient - at the model shop I used to race at we did even endurance races with those (the Light Dash in particular), and even then they would simply not give up. You could literally do several more regular races with the motor they issued you for the endurance race!

[@theblytonian3906]

@@renenoel2641 I buy frequently from AliExpress, no loco motors yet though. Do you have a preferred supplier for those Mabuchi motors? Link?

[@theblytonian3906]

@@renenoel2641 Just did an AliEx search. No Mabuchis in spec, and only a single hit on the same five pole Sam uses here, but only offering single buy at a silly price for AliExpress ATM. Looks like Ebay FTW. Heading there now.

[@ChrisArmstrong194]

Great video Sam, how about 3d printing all new mount so you could use any 12v motor and possibly even adding a second motor in locos with the space. This way you could use these motors in the beachman models too.

[@SamsTrains]

That would be great - I'd love to be able to do something like that! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@diedertspijkerboer]

An excellent vid. You always come up with interesting experiments and tests. Very creative!

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you very much! Glad you found it interesting! :D

[@Lloyd0603]

I have seen several comments regarding how long these motors will last. I build 1/43 scale slot cars and use a wide selection of cheap Chinese electric motors in my chassis. These cars are worked quite hard in various competitions and I have had 1 motor failure in 10 years. This failure happened in a car that did many endurance races with voltages up to 20 volts, with a motor marked as 7.5 volts. I have no problem with their quality control!

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah you're right Lloyd - I've been using these since 2018, and they're all fine so far! I think the longevity should be very good! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@infinitethenextkazekage392]

Very cool Sam! I find this stuff interesting for some reason

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much - glad you liked it mate! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@nightchallenge9610]

Me to

[@infinitethenextkazekage392]

Wow I look away for 1 second and this video grew to greatness I raised this guy!

[@SamsTrains]

haha thank you! :D

[@mariebcfhs9491]

Your tests are very scientific and at the same time easy to understand! Please do more tests like this in the future, we would love to see some critical comparisons in model railroading! Good job King Sam of Sodor

[@SamsTrains]

Glad to hear that Marie - I'll be sure to do more! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@worthingtonmodelrailway8628]

I've been thinking about replacing some of my Railroad Range 3 pole motors with these 5 pole ones (which appear to be the same size) I can't find them for the low price you did, but have ordered some at $5 each to try.

[@enderplant]

Heljan 1361 class cost: Motor - 5£ Body - 20£ Detail - 1£ Can't forget about the inflation from 1910 (when the loco was built) to 2020 3,085.60£! Heljan made it extremely underpriced for a price tag of Over 100£!

[@SamsTrains]

haha - love it!! ;D

[@markdunwell3288]

MIND BOGGLING, JUST MIND BOGGLING. You are in a different league to me Sam. You took that Merchant Navy to pieces in 10 minutes flat , used a soldering iron which i HATE and replaced the motor. And a very CHEAP motor at that. You have blown me away on this one, great credit to you Sam. Bravo,Bravo. Have you ever considered being a advisor to Hornby. Looks like they could do with your input, expertise. Brilliant Sam, thank you 🚄🚅🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟

[@SamsTrains]

Bless you Mark, really made me feel good reading that! Appreciate your kind words, Cheers, Sam :)

[@lukeslocomotives]

I can remember you doing this with the triang neo magnets a few years back XD

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah - it was similar!! :D

[@TomPrickVixen]

I noticed that many British and US H0/00 locos use regular "off the shelve" motors, when I needed a replacement. I simply went to the 1st modell exchange and brought a random motor from a seller who sales all kinds of electrical parts (motors, LEDs, relays ect.), for about 3.5 GBP (and it was a 5 pole replacing a 3 pole motor). Dough most German, French, Austrian manufacturers are using more special motors, sometimes it is also their own product (like the old XO4 Tri-ang motor)!

[@SamsTrains]

You're right - most of them are standard sizes!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@RCassinello]

It's very simple to explain the difference in price: All middle-class hobbies have an extra 0 added to the price compared to how much the items are actually worth everywhere else.

[@SamsTrains]

haha you're probably exactly right actually! xD Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@RCassinello]

Ha - good video, and I like that you used several different metrics to measure performance.

[@RCassinello]

What amazes me with the price differences between model railways and children's toys is that there are so many well-detailed toys out there built with similar technology and to similar standards, and they're all just a fraction of the price. You can't even justify the R&D costs of some of these things - Hornby are still using molds that date back half a century in some cases. Daft! :)

[@44R0Ndin]

At least one 0.

[@andygj66]

Thanks Sam. Useful video. I've stocked up on a few of these just in case. Have you considered something similar for the X9108 motor? This powers the 8F, Black 5, King, Britannia, Clan among others and is no longer available as a spare. It's a 5-pole skew wound motor that's shorter than the one you tested here. There are 3-pole lookalikes on eBay (although they are silver cans with yellow, red or green end caps) that would fit but I'd be interested how they compare performance wise.

[@SamsTrains]

No problem Andy - glad to hear that! Yes I did find lots of those too, but they don't seem to be in stock at the moment :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@jacobg130productions]

Looks like we need to do another L O N G T E R M T E S T

[@SamsTrains]

Absolutely! xD

[@MrPenquite]

Well done Sam excellent! I have just started rebuilding my N Gauge railway after 20 years and some of the motors have beaten me to the grave! So this gives me hope that there are economical motors that work out there. Thanks again. PS 20 years ago I didn't need a magnifying kit to look at the railway, now I do and z gage to must be goign mad in my old age, should be looking at at least O gauge, still smaller gauges give you lovely long train rakes, magic!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much - yes these do seem to be good ones (so far!)! haha that's very brave of you doing Z gauge - that must be very tricky!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@alantraish3368]

Hi Sam Thanks for the information re replacement motors for hornby. As an aside I needed replacement gear wheels for a Heljan railbus which had split. On contacting Heljan spares at Gaugemaster they didn’t have any. I then emailed Heljan direct and they told me it’s an old model( only about 6 years old I think?) I said to them you can get spares for Hornby and Bachmann but they retorted all spares are are problem! If this is a manufacturer attitude on spares of their own models what hope do we have of keeping them going?

[@SamsTrains]

No problem Alan, hopefully it's some help for you! That's genuinely awful - 6 years old, and no spares? Totally not surprised though - Heljan's models aren't designed to be serviceable - they're a complete nightmare from a maintenance perspective.... put together as quickly and cheaply as possible, with no thought to their lives beyond the factory - I've said this many times of Heljan! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@pamelabrandist8308]

Hi can one of these motors replace an x04 (would it fit into the same location ). Thanks Trevor

[@ArthurScothern]

I really enjoyed your video. Have you ever seen Marklin. It's 16v AC 3 rail and runs really well, new for the 1935 catalogue. Got a lot of it and think it's brilliant.

[@TheSergioTurbo]

I don't know if all types of railway model motors and gears fit in it, but I think you might want to get Slot.It's SP21 extractor press. It was designed for slot cars and not trains, but it should still work. I own one myself and it's an expensive (around €60 I think) but excellent tool, it can both pull and install gears and also has a graduated scale on it to measure how far the gear is on the shaft.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes I've often thought about it - it would be great to have! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@frederickwoof5785]

Are Fleischmann N gauge motors available cheaply? The catalogue prices were ridiculous when I last looked.

[@jonballard1]

Great vid Have you ever fitted one of these newer style motors to one of the old engines. Ie replaced an x04 with one of these? Could it be done?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Jon - it could be done, but it won't be an easy job since the mountings aren't designed for this - the results would be amazing should it be done though! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tonypetts6663]

Many years ago you could get a plastic adapter that fitted the back of can motors to replace X03/4 style motors, I actually got one like that in a new scalextric car that was originally designed for the older type motor. I don't know if suchlike are still available these days though.

[@Flashman991]

I'll have a go at 3D printing one.

[@jonballard1]

I’ll buy a few if it works and update some old Hornby triang locos to modern motors

[@WoodenRailwayFan1234Production]

Interesting. Been thinking if its possible to put 5 pole motor in the bachmann thomas locomotives.

[@FlatMagnets1992]

How do I know which motors to buy? I see 12-24V motors were purchased for this video and it also says “22200 RPM” on the listing… are those things important? Or do I just need any micro motor that looks like it’s the kind I need? Like if a motor listing online says it’s 1.2-3V, for example, is that still ok or no?

[@liverpoolandmanchesterrailway]

I can no longer find anything close to this spec on eBay... I wonder if Hornby have thretended them?

[@christoombs1773]

Hi Sam , Thanks for posting this, I need to replace some motors in my Hornby A4's please could you advise the make of the Gear Puller you are using, I can see one similar on EBay made by WALKERA but it says it's for N gauge and RC Helicopters ?

[@SamsTrains]

No problem at all Chris - try searching for a Pinion Puller - that usually brings them up! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Curly472001]

I use £1.99 motors ( made for moving car wing mirrors) and home made gearboxes using bags of Chinese plastic gears and I put them in O gauge locomotives. The models are radio controlled and performance is superb and I regularly haul 8/9 coach trains for hours at a time. A commercial O gauge motor/gearbox can run into 3 figures. Found your video very interesting. rgds Graham Powell

[@SamsTrains]

That sounds wonderful Graham - props to you for building gearboxes for them too - I'm definitely not skilled enough for that! Great work! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@stephensalvatore7176]

Hi Sam have you had any luck looking for these recently? My Hornby Rebuilt Patriot just died so I’m trying to find something that will fit, it’s the same motor as this one.

[@ausfoodgarden]

Thanks so much, Sam for that link. I'd tried to find something like this before but no success. I put in that description and - there they are! I buy quite a bit of old model train stock and sometimes the motors are dodgy or dead. Buying from the UK to Australia costs a lot in postage let alone purchase cost and I can buy the Chinese motors delivered for the UK post cost. I hope they work well, I've tried lower voltage motors before but they are only a short term fix. Good onya

[@SamsTrains]

No problem Gerry, hope they serve you well! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@rozentals_photography28]

hi ! can you help me please ? i have bachmann ivatt class 4 late crest loco 32-576 - it have small problems with motor and i want to replace it and i look for info what motor it need how i find it have Branchline model number 32-575 motor and its not impossible to buy them anymore !!! maybe you can help me to find out what motor i can use to replace old one ???

[@firethepanzerchreck285]

I know this is an old video and all, but do think these could fit and work in the original P2s? (The TTS and Railway ones which had 3 pole motors to them). I live in the USA so prices for spares and parts are even more steep and hard to find.

[@gerardburton3741]

Where did you get that gear puller. I have been looking for one and have not found one that small. Also do you know if the Chinese make a 5 pole replacement for the venerable old X03/4 motor.

[@SamsTrains]

They're available on Ebay - do a search for 'Pinion puller'! Unfortunately I've never found a good replacement for the X04, since the motor mountings only fit the X04! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@PieAndChips]

They're usually 130 size motors, my Lima Class 20 uses a 180 size motor. All cheaply available I'd recommend buying a pinion puller to remove the worm drive from the old motor

[@SamsTrains]

Yes you're right - many do use that size, though there are no 12-24v available from China at the moment - I've had some in the past though! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@paulalmquist5683]

Good report, thank you. Will share with my train club tonight.

[@saxmusicmail]

I bought the same motor with double shaft as possible replacements for my Kato locomotives (this motor is the same dimensionally) and for any other locos that may need repowering. Excellent motor and great price. These motors were $2.55 USD, but have just gone up to $3.55. Shipping very cheap, but it took three weeks for them to arrive from overseas and work their way through Customs.

[@SamsTrains]

Great to hear that - they really do perform well don't they?! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@stevecoops8025]

I was looking at motorising a model tram. The general consensus is to start off at between £27 and £50+. A seller on ebay was doing an entire chassis with "Chinese" motor for £13...I was not sure on the reliability until now but it looks like something that could be useful!

[@SamsTrains]

That sounds pretty fun! I've always been really lucky with the Chinese motors - be wary of course - but you might be pleasantly surprised! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@joergn83]

hi, very interesting. wondering have you show any vid on replacing a old diesel OO. ive a diesel older than me 30-+, kinda don't want it to rip.

[@SamsTrains]

I haven't done a video on that actually - it would be fun to try though! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@billligon4005]

Can you suggest a replacement motor for the Cock O The North 4-8-2 Loco? Thanks.

[@gtptvanbuuren3795]

Mate... followed your lead, bought the same chinese jobbies and fitted one to a Hornby class 0F 0-4-0 pug, popped in some lead ballast. Slow running is fantastic. Uses less lecky. Awesome. Ta.

[@SamsTrains]

That sounds awesome - I've wanted to try that for myself - glad it worked well!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@ModelRailwaysUnlimited]

Hi Sam, interesting to see this after all our discussions and searching for motors. Like you I have obtained a wide variety of new motors from between 80p to £1.90 from two companies, Having dismantled both the original Hornby motor and new ones they are identical and I'd say Hornby buy these motors for their locos and the company we have purchased from are simply off loading those that were not used. So bit of a rip off really the price changed for new Hornby motors. At least we have an option to replace them. Great work, good tests. Did the new one sound slightly more nosy I wonder?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Mike - yes I thought I'd left it long enough to finally do a video! The tests suggest, at the very least, that they do seem to be identical! Yes this one was slightly noisier initially, though it seems to be getting quieter the more it runs! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@kenbennett5458]

Hi sam could you give me details of site you bought these from and where to get them as i have a fleet of every rebuilt that hornby made and would like to be able to convert if needs be and will these fit the un rebuilts as they usually have terrible noisy and temperamental motors in them , well impressed with you're video well done regards ken

[@davidhart4748]

Nice video Sam . Please can you tell me we’re you got you heat gun from? Regards Dave.

[@turbulanceism]

Hi sam, just got my 1st locomotive (tornado) and i have a high detail pack from hornby coming tomorrow, just wondering if at some point you may give a go at detailing a model as id really like to do it but cant see any videos on how to

[@SamsTrains]

Great idea mate - I could look into trying that! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@kenfarquhar3831]

Sam - very useful video. I might have missed a bit of the video but the ebay photos of the ones you bought show a motor with a shaft at both ends and the closest I can find on ebay today (same seller) also have shaft at both ends. The motor in video though looks like it only has a shaft at one end. Did you have to cut the shaft at one end?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Ken - yes they did start disappearing off of ebay after I released this video... it seems it is only the dual-shaft ones left now, so yes you would have to cut one of them down! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@raycoe9470]

Sam, very interesting stuff. What are the connections for the multimeter to check the amps being drawn?

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you! The multimeter will need to go in series (google series vs parallel), and you want the probes plugged into the common and 10amp sockets on the meter - just remember to change them back again before measuring voltage! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@1500chessie]

Finally someone picked that theme up.I had a lot of issues with motors and believe they cause the most problems when locos running bad.Especially when running DCC.Still wonder why the Hornby motors have no weight on the axle, it would increase slow speed performance for sure.Your test was a nearly tie, i guess.The specs of a motor are important, due to the fact how many windings are on the rotor.Also thickness gauge of the wire is a point.What i say is , a high rev motor with lower torque , or a less reving motor with more torque.Depends on which loco is used and of course the gearing.Anyway, my opinon is that manufacturers uses often cheap motors and swapping a motor will help the loco to run way beter.As you show in the vid , it didn´t have to be expensive Maxon or Mashima motors.

[@SamsTrains]

haha thanks Carsten - I thought this had to be done! Many thanks for all the info, yes the motors appeared to be identical (inside too), there's no way Hornby's motors cost much more than mine did! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@dennisedgar3430]

Hi Sam, 4 years down the line. Where would one get these motors now?

[@barleyarrish]

I've gone back to take a look at this after watching the Bachmann motor replace (Sam you are a star). Now I'm looking at my lovely static Hornby H class 3 motors now , all 'US'! Any luck with yours?

[@SamsTrains]

Oh blimey yeah - I'm on motor number 3 for the H now too... I'll definitely look into that at some point! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@flyboy2610]

Great video, Sam! I have a couple of Athearn switch engines i want to re-motor before putting DCC in them. You are correct, manufacturer's prices are pretty steep!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks mate! Definitely worth checking Ebay to see if alternatives are available - look for 12-24v motors though, not just 12v ones! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@HHExpress]

Hello Sam, I have a Fleischmann piccolo 7471 with a bad motor. It appears that they are not available anymore. Maybe you can assist

[@SamsTrains]

I'm not familiar with that one unfortunately mate - could you email me a photo of the chassis?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@EverydayTrains]

@Sam'sTrains I've come across this issue when trying to replace a burnt out X04 motor in an old train of my dad's. Is there a cheaper solution than the £28 upgrade kit on Peter's Spares? I can probably find a motor but does anyone make the custom mounting bracket? Or is that why Peter's can charge the big bucks? 😂

[@TechBuild]

Do Hornby locomotives have coreless motors? Some locomotives made by Kato, especially the steam ones are powered by a coreless motor which greatly helps in lowering the crawl speeds of the locomotive and allows smoother performance.

[@SamsTrains]

None of Hornby's locos have coreless motors - I've never seen a coreless motor perform better than a 5-pole skew wound, but I've heard good things about them! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@a.r.productions]

Hello sam. I'm looking towards purchasing a soldering iron for basic wiring and track soldering, what soldering Iron do you use and what brand or model would you recommend.

[@SamsTrains]

Hey - I use an HQ Solder/30 - they're really good! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@gleggett3817]

My thoughts: is there an actual or implied warranty with the Hornby motor? What would a proper electrical comparison make of two engines?

[@SamsTrains]

That's a good question - I'm not sure about that! The retailer I use guarantees everything for 6 months... Hornby may be for 1 year, will need to check! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@bluglouk]

"Let's set it off and let it have a bit of a run..." : performs the smoothest quietest start ever..

[@hamishbarry3913]

Sam what kind of gear puller is that? Please could u find a link for where u got it from?

[@SamsTrains]

If you search for pinion puller on Ebay, you should find one like mine! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@stepheng7586]

Very very interesting video Sam. It begs the question...........just how much do model trains cost to manufacture?

[@SamsTrains]

My thoughts exactly Stephen - is a 1000% mark-up typical?! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@theblytonian3906]

How did you get single shaft out of the bag? They're advertised and shown as dual shaft in that link in the video.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes you're right - the single shafts don't seem to be available at the moment (maybe because I bought too many?!), though they do turn up from time to time, keep an eye out! If you need one straight away, you can cut down the shafts using a rotary tool, but either do it very quickly, or a little at a time - you don't want to generate too much heat! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@DaiElsan]

Applying a bit of heat to the worm before refitting helps it slip on easier, less chance of stripping brass out of the core. And when it cools it will shrink back to the shaft.

[@SamsTrains]

Absolutely Dave - that's why I used the heat gun! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@beeleywood7796]

Would changing the worm gear out to work at lower speeds would it prolong the life of a motor? Although at a few quid would it be worth it? thanks for uploading

[@SamsTrains]

Yes in theory it could be possible, but you'd need to change the loco gearset too, and also find gears/worms that fit into the mountings correctly - it could be quite a headache! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Jimyjames73]

Hey @ 0:28 - I have the very same Loco - Did you get yours on it own or did you get in in a Set Like I did - The "British Pullman - V. S. O. E (Venice Simplon-Orient-Express)" R1162???

[@SamsTrains]

I bought mine individually James - I didn't know that one was in a set! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Jimyjames73]

@@SamsTrains Well now you do!!! It came with 3 Pullman Carriages, a oval track with a siding & a conroller

[@britanniaolivercromwell5006]

Witch of the motors would you recommend for a fast and powerful locomotive the Hornby or cheap because I plan on replacing sir Nigel Gresleys motor because it’s kinda to slow for my liking and can you leave a link for the cheap motor.

[@SamsTrains]

I honestly haven't yet found any difference between the cheap ones and the Hornby ones.... so either! xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@360videonetwork6]

Sam - sorry to trouble you. I’ve bought a replacement motor for my pendalino. Is it a difficult job to install?

[@IronHorseRailways]

That's seriously impressive! I've recently bought an old Lima 08 but the gears are off to the side on the wheel not down the middle like here. You think these will still work? Also, your trains are so quiet, the motors on mine make a fairly loud buzzing sound. Any ideas why? One loco is brand new and still buzzes.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much mate - yes I know the ones! You can remotor the lima locos, but not with these ones unfortunately! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@IronHorseRailways]

@@SamsTrains yeah I took it apart today, totally different motor style. Is it true your controller can make your locos run quieter?

[@marcusjunction4464]

sam iv got a question: i own some model locos and im slowly wanting to get back into the hobbie and im wanting to purches a new one. Either a class 66, flying scotsman with smoke deflectors or a tornado A1. Which do i go for ? (i like them all but can have all yet)

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh that's very tricky mate - they're very different models - it all depends which you like best, since they're all excellent! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@marcusjunction4464]

@@SamsTrains thank you sam for replying and thank you it is atough choice. could you recommend some locos perhaps ?

[@bentullett6068]

I am glad you have done a video on this. The only difference I can see is that the expensive motor is slightly quieter than the cheaper motor.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Ben! Yes I noticed that too - but after running-in, it gets much quieter! Thanks for watching - Sam :)