How Much Does Jacket Color Really Matter in the Heat?

How Much Does Jacket Color Really Matter in the Heat?
Before I start, let me warn you that this video is really for gear geeks, or just geeks in general… You see, after my video on riding in the heat, I created a bit of a stir in that I mentioned that jacket color (black or white) does not make a lot of difference while riding in the heat.
I did this because back in 1980 a study was done to figure out why the Bedouins from the Sahara and Arabian deserts, often wear black robes. If you are interested you can look this study up, but the basic findings where that color made no difference in how hot the person wearing the robes actually got while standing in the hot desert sun. Yes, black does get hotter on the surface, but that heat is not transferred to the person, especially if there was a light breeze.
Many viewers did not believe this and felt that, in their experience, black was the hotter color. I decided to put this to the test by taking some measurements while I was wearing both my black Klim Latitude Jacket and my light gray Rev’IT Mesh Air jacket.
This video discusses the methods and results of these tests, and I think you will find the results interesting.
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[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thank you to everyone who is contributing to the discussion. This topic seems to generate some very passionate commentary. This purpose of this video as with all of my videos is to entertain, educate and spark the kind of discussion we are seeing. My background is as a chiropractor and thus I know my physiology pretty well and have studied thermodynamics during my two years of college physics. This however, does not make me an expert in heat transfer, but I do know that it is a very complex subject and cannot be isolated to one factor like jacket color.The type of material, its thickness, the fit of the garment, the amount of environmental humidity and whether there is a breeze or not, all contribute to how cool you or I will be in any given jacket. The purpose of this video is to demonstrate that these other factors are far more important than the color. While this is NOT a controlled scientific study--I never claimed it was--I did make attempts to make this as fair a comparison as possible. In fact, I believe the circumstances gave the advantage to the lighter weight, lighter color jacket with greater ventilation. Contrary to some assumptions, I did allow my body to cool between measurements. During phase two where I was sitting in the sun, I allowed the sensory to cool down to 86 degrees (inside with AC on 77 degrees inside the home) before beginning the test. I did a similar process during the riding phase. I did not report these measurements because these videos are supposed to be entertaining and all that stuff just lengthens the video and make its boring for the average viewer. One viewer has suggested that my measurements are flawed because I would be dead at a temp or 85 or 86 degrees. I was not measuring my internal core temperature which is maintained by our bodies at 98.6 degrees on average. Sweating, evaporation, radiation and convection are all means our bodies use to maintain that internal temp. I wore the sensory under my shirt, next to my skin, to get as close as possible to my external skin temperature (there will of course be some difference between my skin and the sensor). This sensory was affected by evaporation of sweat and ventilation, as I was riding. The actual temperature reading, in my onion, is not what is important. I would expect those reading to be close to the environmental temperature, in this case the lower 80's. It we were testing on a hotter day, the starting temp would have been higher. What I was looking for was the change from the baseline of 86 degrees. Since we started with the same base temp for both jackets I reported the difference between the two jackets, which is what we where trying to test. In the end, the difference between the two jackets (The effect on the sensor) was only 1.85 degrees. I will leave it up to each individual to determine if this is significant to them. Everyone has different preferences and some do not like feeling sweaty, thus the mesh jackets are a better choice for them. I did not include a test where I rode in just a shirt, because I do not advocate that under any circumstances. If you choose to do that (as do many of my friends) that is fine, it is your choice, just like wearing a helmet is your choice. I will again make the point that keeping you skin covered, staying hydrated and having good but not excessive ventilation is in my opinion the most effective means riding in hot conditions.

[@jasonjayalap]

Your findings and speculation coincide with the (two, unfortunately) published studies done on color (examining black wearing desert tribes). Circulation under the clothes equalizes color choice. Ignore the "comment-section scientists/engineers." I'd like to see a mesh vs basic venting comparison, but I think you've proved that great venting almost equals mesh.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

.

[@hershchat]

Well done! I was one of those that questioned the last vid., and now I am convinced. Thank you!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks, I appreciate that!

[@ppherse6486]

This was very informative and fun to watch! Really, thank you!

[@brianvanderbunt7423]

Very interesting results. I appreciate the effort you put into it. I would have liked to have seen you use two identical jackets in different colors instead of two different types in order to eliminate another variable.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I agree, identical jackets would have been better. I actually just bought a new Latitude in gray, so I could repeat the comparison, but I suspect the results would be similar. Color is just one variable in a complex system...and as it turns out, this topic is kind of like oil and tires.

[@sworndefenders8440]

Craig, Thanks for the level of work you put into demonstrating the deminimis difference between a light or dark colored jacket. Living in Florida, I ride in the heat most of the year, this time of year being particularly challenging. I would be interested in your views and opinion on ventilation in riding pants as well (. i.e. pull overs vs. pants). Keep up the good work and stay safe.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks, this was all just for fun, but it is interesting. For pants, I have been using the Klim Bad Lands Pros. I also have a set of Latitude pants, both of which have zippered ventilation. The Bad Lands, while more expensive offer both more protection and better ventilation. Of course that depends on what bike you are riding as well. The ventilation is more effective on the ADV bike vs. the cruiser because of the more upright posture.

[@cliff8675]

I have two pairs of riding pants. Both are Olympic with similar mesh to the Rev-It, one black the other tan. My jackets (different brands) are ADV styled (personal preference over the Olympic jackets (that I bought 2nd hand online with the pants) My black pants are my gotos under 60 degrees, they match my textile jacket. The pants do get chilly under 40. The tans are my summer gear (over 70 up to 100-ish), that jacket is mesh (more open than the Rev-It) and moves air like mad (which is why I bought it) I really don't think the pants color makes a big difference in the transition range (60-75 degrees) and the black pair is only holding armour in place under 45. I wear dress slacks or jeans under them commuting and jeans or shorts everywhere else. From my limited (completely unscientific) 'testing' I do not think the pants would be substantially different until the temp went over 90+. Where I live includes humidity (think 30-50% as 'normal' and 75+ in the Summer as average) so I value air movement first in hotter weather behind my RTs fairing and cylinders. Just my observation.

[@chrismartin500]

Another awesome video! Do you have any videos discussing your Vision Tour? I love the way they look and would love to hear some reviews.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks! Yes, I did a long term review a while back. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2OuqmWlq8Z8nrs

[@JimmyHamAnp]

Great Job!!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks!

[@stephenromano1906]

Great video! I have both the Klim latitude and induction (mesh) jackets in black. While naturally I get more breeze coming through the Induction mesh, I do not FEEL a significant difference between the two as far as my body temperature goes. During the summer, On longer trips I end up wearing the Latitude regardless due to its water resistance abilities. (The Induction does not repel water and does not come with a liner like the rest of Klimes jackets). I think to your point I wouldn’t let the concern of heat build up either encourage or prevent me from buying a specific color jacket. Also, I never go riding without a jacket regardless how hot it is...I really enjoy having my skin right where it is...I’ve seen road rash over the years that would make anyone think twice about wearing a tank top while riding in the heat.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks! I think you hit the nail on the head. Buy the color jacket you want. The amount of ventilation and project from the sun and road is far more important.

[@MemphisMike901]

Eye opening Craig!!! I wonder how it would come out on a Black vs White Helmet??? Great vid sir

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks!

[@donbasta2475]

Great presentation as I was looking to buy a light colored jacket for down here in Florida. I have a black mesh jacket and while I'm riding no problem I'm cool. When I stop in this hot humid Florida summer things heat up quickly which is why i was thinking of buying a light colored mesh jacket. So thanks for helping me to decide and save some $$$.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Your welcome!

[@prophet8photo]

Don Basta I ride in Texas in similar temperatures to you so I am regularly riding in mid to high 90s during the summer and will tell you for sure that a lighter jacket color does make a huge difference in stop and go traffic. Keep in mind that when you are riding in outdoor temperatures close to external body temperature even a few degrees cooler will help mitigate dehydration or heat exhaustion. Again, much more important if you're idling behind SUVs at less than 30 mph for 30 minutes at a time versus the constant airflow of higher speed

[@tombeckett4340]

Thanks for the searching done in regards to clothing from the Middle East . I found it very interesting. . Thanks again .

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks!

[@Andre-cu2zp]

The Swedes start to prepare the Nobel Prize for science to be delivered to a Massachusetts motorcyclist !!!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I will take the prize money!

[@mikemills5144]

An excellent video! It would be really neat to see if you could do the same experiment but do one with no jacket and see what the internal temp was, and to take it a step further see what your hydration level is. I wear my mesh jacket (Black) and have never felt dehydrated/overheated but it is my understanding that you actually get more dehydrated with no jacket as the sun is directly on your skin and the wind evaporates any sweat much faster, thus dehydrating you faster. Absolutely no idea how you would measure that though.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

That would be interesting, but I think it would require more elaborate testing equipment and expertise that I possess. Thanks!

[@emmiification]

Well done 👍🏽

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thank you!

[@jesse612]

Nice and thorough testing, good job, Thank you! Just curious is the .40 sec riding shot filmed in the Arctic? Ever since riding AK, Yukon, & NWT I can usually spot the tundra and shrubby trees. Cheers Mate

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I believe you are referring to the Top of the World Highway between the Yukon and Chicken Alaska. Thanks!

[@jesse612]

@@LivingOffTheSlab Great road, However once at the top I hit rain till Chicken. But I lucked out and had nice weather for the Dalton :))

[@chrislogboy]

I have the same Klim jacket but in hi viz and a mesh jacket. I find the Klim jacket more comfortable in hot weather, especially in 100 plus degrees as long as I'm moving. I do find that my shirt is sweaty when I stop. I wear my mesh jacket for commuting, about 30 minutes, so I'm not so wet for my for my shift. Basically, there is a place for both types of coats, but the klim is for long rides and touring.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I agree. The Jackets are just tools that have their uses. I use my Latitude for touring and will wear a mesh on shorter rides with temps under 90. Thanks!

[@domster200]

Thanks Craig, interesting stuff but wouldn't the hygrometer measurements be more relevant to comfort as body temperature will regulate itself?

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I am not sure about that one. Humidity does affect your ability to cool yourself by slowing evaporation, but I am not sure what a direct measurement would tell us. I think that is for bigger brains than me.

[@domster200]

Living Off The Slab How clammy you're getting?

[@The_Tactical_Sombrero]

It appears to me that the mesh jacket would be better suited for commuting when the body generates more sweat at stop lights, to immediately cool the body once the rider is back underway. Excellent video from a Phoenix rider.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Sure, a mesh jacket could work in the right conditions. When Temps get over 90, the cooling effect of the wind is diminished and even makes you hotter. You are better off keeping your skin covered. Living where you do, I am sure you know this better than me. Thanks!

[@ppherse6486]

Thank you, Mr. White

[@samermansour8793]

Thank you for making the video. I’m just have a question. Why not have the same exact model of a jacket but both colors. Evens out more stuff, like the grade and material is used in both jackets, or how breathable one is. I’m just saying, it can be more accurate since all variables are removed.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I completely agree with you, but I just was not going out and buying a $700 jacket just to make a video. Since I made the video I did pick up a new Klim Latitude in gray, so I could redo the test, but I know how it will come out. Color only plays a small role in how hot a jacket will be. Thickness of material, fit of the jacket and ventilation are all greater factors. But, maybe at some point I will redo the video and address some of the issues brought up...thanks for your suggestion.

[@weridemotoz5551]

Even though this wasn't a "scientific " experiment as noted by another commentator, nontheless it is great to see a layperson take the time to investigate such a topic in this depth using simple equip. Excellent work. Now for my own practical experience, my klim carlsbad gear is substantially cooler than my full mesh revit gear. Revit is black and carlsbad is grey. The big difference is that the klim gear vents over the body and does not allow the direct sun on the body whereas the full mesh runs air over a large area and in doing so the thermodynamics of sweating and evaporation do not occur as efficiently as the vented gear. At the end of the day I can wear my klim gar in 34 deg c weather and be cooler than my revit gear in the same Temps.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thank you, I appreciate the kind words. Your experience is the same as mine and what I originally recommended in my first video and in my ebook. My whole point with this video was to demonstrate that color is only a small part of a very complex system. As you said, keeping your skin covered, having good but regulated air flow and staying hydrated are all much more important factors than jacket color.

[@thehexter1]

I’m guessing there’s a bit of psychological feeling of cooling in a light color over a darker one. I have both very light and dark colored vented and non vented jackets. Very difficult to tell much of a difference. Nice tests!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Yeah, I am sure there is and "feeling" hot is subjective. Some handle it better than others. Now cold, that is my kryptonite. Thanks!

[@kevinsterner9490]

Craig that was an interesting video. I know several people have already probably mentioned it but I don't have time to read all 69 comments. I think the one flaw I see is the sensor next to your skin. Your body is designed to maintain a constant temp. It will regulate that temp based on the outside temperature. So in my opinion your body has to work harder to maintain the correct temperature in a hotter jacket. I feel a better test would be just like the one you started with by having the sensor in the jackets while laying in the sun. Then have a fan blow over them and see what the inside temp is. I agree with you that the black radiates heat well, so the fan is crucial. This will give you a more accurate idea which jacket is hotter in the sun riding down the road. If you turn the fan off it will tell you how hot the jacket gets sitting in traffic. Just my 2 cents. Keep the videos coming. I enjoy them all

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate the input. I did debate on where I should wear the sensory. Against my skin or directly under the jacket, on top of the shirt. In the end I decided that against my skin, shielded from direct effects of wind flow, would give me the best results. I am not actually measuring my my skin temp in these test, it is more precise to say I am measuring the air gap between my body and the shirt. But, it is as close as I can get with simple equipment. My theory was that by placing the sensory as close to the skin as possible, I could get a good idea of how effective my body was at keeping itself cool, while wearing each jacket. In truth, I should have had sensors in many locations, but I am not going that far with all of this...LOL. I felt the most important thing to test was how the jacket did while riding, so I focused by efforts there. Others have mentioned the possible energy output in darker jackets, but there was only a 2.6 degree difference between the two jackets while sitting in the sun and a 1.85 degree difference while riding. So, I am skeptical. Just because a rider does not feel as wet in a mesh jacket does not mean that they are not sweating. The sweat is just being blown off or evaporated immediately rather than being allowed to sit on your skin. It is possible that given the mesh jacket does not allow you body to use the sweat to cool itself, it causes a higher amount of energy consumption. I do not know this to be true and do not plan to buy they equipment necessary to test this. Again, I am not going that far...LOL. Thanks again.

[@onerugrat]

can I ask why you think about the lattitude jacket in hot weather, I mainly ride in warm weather but at night in pa the temp drops, for my long rides was thinking about the lattiude

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Everyone handles heat differently, but for me I use the Latitude in all kinds of weather. In hot weather I open the vents and the collar to get wind flowing through the jacket. Of course any jacket will be hot when not moving, but as long as you are riding I find it to be great. I do use a good wicking base layer as well.

[@aldirizaldisetiadi4570]

I believe a hot temperature plus relative humidity could be calculated as a Heat Index that will be felt by our body in actual. Perhaps, in a high temperature climate with high humidity, our body heat inside will rise significantly. A full covered jacket like Latitude, even with ventilation, might give a hotter temperature to our body compare to a mesh jacket.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks for the input. Sure, humidity does play a role in how hot you would feel in a given location as does temperature and travel speed. Mesh jackets do have their place, but as the temperatures get really hot (over 90), you are better off keeping the sun off your skin, duration of the ride of course plays role too. When riding through death valley this year, I was very comfortable with my Klim jacket on and allowing a small breeze to flow through the vents.

[@dougm5231]

A true test should have been the same type jacket, not totally different jackets. For myself, once the outside temp reaches around 70-75 I have no jacket on.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

You are absolutely correct, but I am not going to go out and buy a $700 jacket just to do a video...love you guys, but not that much...LOL. If I ever do up grade my jacket, I plan on getting gray for visibility reasons, so maybe I will do the test over again. Thanks for your input!

[@craigpoppe8436]

Off subject question. I cannot wear a full face helmet, claustrophobia. How can a person see in the rain whilst on a bike with a 3/4 helmet?

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I used to ride with the Shoei JCruise. It has a flip down face shield and works very well in the rain.

[@jomes67]

Is that the Shoei Neotec 2? If so how do you like it? Been thinking about one....

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

That is actually a Neotech 1. I got them on close out after the II came out. Very good helmet. My RF1200 is lighter, but the modular is nice when you want to take a drink on the road.

[@mikespekreijse391]

Hi Jamie, i purchased a 2 here in NZ beginning of the year to replace my 1 after it did its primary job really well after the bike got lazy one day. I think the air venting is much better and the sound protection better IF you don't sit in the buffing zone which unfortunately I do. I think the 1 was possibly better in that regard. Love the fact that there is a SENA unit that fits within the shell as it is illegal to have anything attached to your helmet here that is not approved by the manufacturer, although that doesn't stop some people.

[@jmacp19]

It seems that the difference would be pretty evident for those of us commuting in stop and go traffic vs riding continuously on highways. Maybe it’s mental, but I know I feel cooler wearing a jacket on sunny hot days as the jacket provides a barrier from direct sunlight and prevents sun burns.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I do as well. Getting sunburned is not a way to keep cool.

[@jblue1299]

Does your Tenere, with its radiator on the side, burn your leg ?

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

No, I have never hand any issue. Thanks!

[@jerseycowboy1]

To find out if a black jacket is hotter then a white jacket you would have to use identical jackets but different colors. You can use complete different jacket materials and styles.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Yes, but I was not going to go buy a $700 jacket just for this video and as I mentioned, the deck was stacked against the black jacket. I do now have two Klim Latitude jackets, maybe at some point I will repeat the video. Thanks!

[@scotfield3950]

What are the temps at 115f going down the road at 70?

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

About 132f.

[@jimwms1able]

I have seen several guys riding in Africa. They specifically said that a black jacket closed up was better than not having a jacket on. The reason is that once the sweat evaporates then the body does not have a way to keep cool because there is nothing to evaporate thus it is better to have a jacket with minimal air flow. You may feel cooler with a mesh jacket at first but in the long run the jacket that is slow to evaporate is better. I enjoyed your video very much. Keep them coming. Ignore the nay sayers!!!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks, I agree. Keeping your skin covered and controlling evaporation through adequate ventilation is far more important than the color of the jacket. Color is only a small part of the equation.

[@carlredmond3642]

Also the guys riding on the desert at mega hot temperatures say if you ride for any distance with a mesh jacket you will suffer severe dehydration in a short time due to the hot air flowing through the mesh over your skin when traveling even nominal speeds and if will not be possible to stay hydrated by drinking enough water to replace what you are sweating... whereas by closing up the vents on a gorge tex jacket and wearing a water soaked t shirt underneath you will stay cool for a period of time and not be sweating excessively and getting dehydrated

[@jimwms1able]

Exactly. A mesh jacket is nice for a short hall but if you are not hydrating constantly you will be in trouble in the course of the day. I live in Colorado and the humidity is often in the 10% or less and you have to be hydrating all day or not only will you get dehydrated but you will have problems with your eyes drying out...not much fun.

[@tahoehiker]

I guess I'm a geek because I found this video fascinating! Both my summer mesh jacket and my heavier touring jacket are hi vis. I prefer the mesh around town just because it's so much lighter.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks! We geeks stick together.

[@kuhndj67]

I think I might have been one of the folks who commented about the earlier video... but hopefully I wasn't being a jerk about it because it was an interesting discussion and had lots of 'food for thought'. First I'd say that it's not 'conventional wisdom' that I would reference when talking about thermal absorption and color but rather physics. You can find the tables online pretty easily and if run the calculations yourself if you REALLY hate yourself. Cliff notes: black is THE WORST (or best depending on your perspective) when it comes to converting those solar photons into heat that your garment then needs to do something with. First rule when trying to deal with heat... the less you have to deal with - the better. However... when it comes to a motorcycle jacket there are a lot of other factors - and many of them are really 'tradeoffs' rather than one or the other being the best option.

[@kuhndj67]

So regarding this experiment - comments about the first part (garment in lawn and wearing while sitting). This would be a good proxy for 'stop and go traffic' maybe - and the key thing you didn't comment about was 'temp over time' - heat soak will be your heavy garment's enemy. The good about the heavy garment is that it will soak slower... the bad is that once it's hot it will get much hotter than the light garment (unless you can remove that heat somehow).

[@kuhndj67]

Comments about the second/moving part - this is the most important for me (since I rarely ride in cities). When you're moving there are other factors that come into play that I suspect are more important than color - - Conditions: 86F and 10% humidity is A LOT different than 86F and 95% humidity. - Average Speed: more speed means more air. - Jacket design and how well it matches with bike airflow: Probably the most important - My RevIt Sand II is a 3/4 season jacket - but it has HUGE vents in the chest and down both arms (it's also white but I'll get to that)... that jacket is impressively comfortable when moving at speed (over 50) because even when it's hot the airflow is prodigious, even better because the Multistrada's airflow matches up with the location of the zip's nicely (with the low windscreen). A comment about anatomy - your side comment about sweat is actually pretty important... you mention that you built a layer of sweat up with the heavy jacket and the air jacket removed it. That's a pretty clear indication of the air jacket doing a better job of working with your body's natural cooling system to keep you cool - and the heavy jacket not working as well. You mention that after the sweat evaporated you didn't feel damp with the air jacket - but that doesn't mean you weren't sweating... your body was likely generating as much sweat as before but it was being handled by the jacket - keeping you cooler. Jackets have two jobs when it comes to heat - removing external heat and just as importantly getting rid of internal heat (or holding it in if it's cold out). Don't discount your body as a source of heat that needs to be managed. When the ambient temp approaches 98F our body switches to sweat as the primary heat control technique - your air jacket was clearly doing a better job at that.

[@kuhndj67]

Summary - lots of things combine to impact how well your jacket keeps you cool... but when it comes to color, if you don't add heat to your jacket you won't need to remove it. A light colored jacket will be cooler over a wider range of conditions (the amount you're cooler will vary) than the same jacket in black. Comparing an Air jacket to a 3/4 season jacket is a bit trickier - because a heavy jacket that breaths well will outperform an Air jacket under certain combinations of conditions. Finally... don't discount the value of a couple degrees... the 'comfortable to uncomfortable' transition for most humans is somewhere between 80 and 90. A couple degrees change in there is important.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Hey David, you were not a jerk, I do not mind the challenge and it is an interesting discussion. I hope that I do not come off a jerk either, this is all just for fun. I cannot disagree with anything you mention, black does indeed absorb more heat than any other color. My point in going through this exercise--other than I just find it interesting--is to make the point that we are dealing with a very complex system that has many factors, as you mention. When all the factors are taken into account, the actual effect on the rider is minimal. Again, it is just an interesting discussion. Thanks for you input!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Yeah, I did 15 minutes, if I sat there longer, would there be a greater difference? I am not sure, I suspect that a maximum level would be achieved based on the environmental factors at the time. If there was a breeze, heat would be released to the atmosphere through convection. I would also sweat inside the jacket--as I did--and heat would be released through that process as well. To really test this, we would need to identical jackets other than color. At some point I will buy a new jacket and do plan on going a lighter color for visibility. When I do, maybe I will repeat the experiment.

[@LTVoyager]

I think the bottom line is that this wasn’t a scientific test. 🙂 As a retired engineer, I saw several things that make this test basically meaningless in regard to color comparison. First is that the same type of jacket was not used. Mesh is completely different from standard fabric and the evaporative cooling effect likely completely overwhelms the difference due to color. Also, no baseline reference was provided for your skin temperature without any jacket on at all. At least, if you did provide this I missed it and I rewound the video a couple of times looking for that. Lastly, a couple of degrees difference is a HUGE difference in this scenario. Let me try to explain why. If I remember the numbers correctly, you obtained 94.7 with the Klim and 92.1 with the mesh for a difference of 2.6 degrees which you said was not much. Well, let’s assume your skin temperature was around the average published value of 91 (this is where having a baseline with no jacket would have made your experiment infinitely more useful). If that were the case, then the Klim was 3.7 degrees warmer than baseline and the mesh was 1.1 degrees warmer. Compared to the baseline, the temperature increase in the Klim was 3.4 times more than in the mesh. That is a huge relative difference, much more than just the 2.6 degree absolute temperature difference would suggest. In cases like this, you really need to compare the alternatives to a common baseline, not just look at absolute differences. It is sort of like saying that 10 MPH isn’t a large difference in speed. However, if I am looking at a collision with a brick wall at 1 MPH compared to 11 MPH, then 10 MPH makes a huge difference. If I am looking at a collision at 100 MPH vs 110 MPH, then the 10 degree difference isn’t that significant as you are equally dead either way. So, I think your experiment was a good start and I applaud your effort to gather data, but I think you drew conclusions that simply aren’t supported by the incomplete data that was collected. And the riding part was flawed in that the outside air temperature was nearly the same as normal skin temperature. So, there isn’t a lot of thermal transfer happening due to convection or radiation due to the minimal delta T. Most cooling is evaporative in that scenario and unrelated to clothing color. I believe jacket and pants color makes a very significant difference if you are comparing non-mesh gear. Once you introduce a huge difference due to evaporative cooling, then you can’t make reasonable comparisons. If you are riding in temperatures much above average skin temperature (100+), then a light color will be much cooler than a dark color. If you are riding in temperatures much below average skin temperature in the sun, then a dark color will be much warmer than a light color. If you are riding on a very cloudy day or in the rain, color makes very little difference. It all depends on the circumstances. I lean towards dark clothing for cold weather riding and light for hot weather riding, particularly if in the sun. In the shade, color difference is probably inconsequential.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

You are correct I was not comparing apples to apples, I do not have to identical jackets to compare. I also do not claim that this was a controlled study. Rather, it was just a little fun experiment to satisfy my curiosity. While your belief, that lighter colors are substantially cooler than darker clothing, sounds valid is also not based on any experimental data. It is purely theoretical. I am including a link here to an article in the Guardian where they discuss an actual study that was done in 1980 and that was published in the Journal Nature. This is the study I based my original statement on and my simple little tests, no matter how flawed you feel they are, seem to back up the conclusion found in the study. Thanks fro you input! www.theguardian.com/science/2012/aug/19/most-improbable-scientific-research-abrahams

[@LTVoyager]

Living Off The Slab I recall vaguely when that study came out that there was substantial criticism of it for similar reasons as I mentioned. The reality is that the test wasn’t measuring color differences, even though the title suggested that. The study was measuring the effect of evaporative cooling inside loose clothing in an arid desert when the wind is blowing. Studies that don’t actually measure what they say they are measuring are flawed. If you want to measure the effect of color, you have to eliminate to the extend possible the affect of other variables such as evaporative cooling. Do a very simple test. Get two tight fitting t-shirts of the same fabric and whose only difference is one is white and the other is black. Go out and stand in the sun on a calm day when the temperature is say 100 so it is well above skin temperature. After 30 minutes or so, see which color shirt gives you more comfort. Once you introduce the convective chimney affect of loose fitting clothing and evaporative cooling, then I agree that the color of the clothing is far less significant as you have introduced other mechanisms that totally swamp the effect of color. I wish I had access to a copy of the study you referenced, but I’m too cheap to buy it. As I recall, another criticism of the study was that it did not measure heat, but rather measured temperature. They are not the same thing. If two pieces of cloth are kept at the same temperature, but one is wet and evaporating, the wet one will transfer far more heat than the dry cloth even though both are held at the same temperature. The difference is that latent heat can’t be measured with a thermometer and evaporation is a latent heat mechanism. Heat transfer is a very complicated subject as all of us who suffered through thermodynamics in college can attest. 🙂

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

LT, I really appreciate the conversation, but I am laughing a bit because from what I am reading here we are basically saying the same thing. My whole point of doing all of this in the manner that I did with the three rounds, going from flat to wearing the jacket to riding with the jacket, was to point out that simply saying that black jackets are hotter than white jackets because of color is to take one factor within a very complex system and draw a false conclusion. There is no jacket that exits only as a color, outside of being worn by a human being or outside of interaction with the environment, such as a breeze being present. All of these factors along with the type of material, the thickness of the material and the fit of the garment, play a role in how hot the individual will get inside a particular jacket. My intent was never to prove that black is as a color cooler than white, rather it has been to point out exactly what you state above, that thermodynamics and physiology are very complex and the color of a jacket is but a small part of the equation. Are we on the same page now...I need a beer...LOL.

[@LTVoyager]

Living Off The Slab You’re buying since you started this all with your video! 😁 My only concern is that people watch this and say “Oh, color doesn’t matter so I can wear a black t-shirt out in the sun and be just as comfortable as in a white t-shirt” and those of use who used to work out in the sun know this is patently untrue. Yes, I agree completely that the thermodynamics are complex and not always intuitive. I tend to pick colors more for visibility than anything so I tend towards light colors such as light gray and bright green. And after owning my first mesh jacket for a few years now, I will never go back. The mesh works great for me from about 60 to over 100 and with the addition of my Frogg Toggs rain coat, I am pretty comfy down to 40 and this with just my LD Comfort shirt underneath. I do need to look into rain gear again as the Frogg Toggs are marginal at best. Although, with the LD Comfort shirt and mesh coat, I often now just ride in the rain and get wet. I am more comfortably than with a clammy rain suit, particularly in warmer weather. And once the rain stops, I am dry in 20 minutes. I can even walk into a restaurant soaking wet and the LD Comfort shirt will be dry before lunch is over. Compared to cotton t-shirts, the LD Comfort shirt is pretty amazing.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Alright, I will buy. I do not encourage anyone to ride in just a tshirt, I always were a jacket. So if they draw that conclusion, that is on them. I am not taking that responsibility...lol. There is no one way of anything that works for everyone. Personal preference always plays a role. My videos are always intended to spark discussion, get people thinking and hopefully, entertain. Thanks for contributing to the discussion!

[@MrBigmike7118]

C'mon down to Texas and repeat the test in 100 degree plus temps. The delta would be vastly different.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I grew up in East Texas and thus know first hand how hot it can get. I remember in 1980, it was 108 at 2am. I suspect however that as the temps get over 90, the mesh jacket will become less effective as the air temperature exceeds external body temperature. If I get a chance, I will repeat this in hotter conditions.

[@thaumaturgeishere331]

My science and engineering training suggests to be that objectively black will get warmer more quickly in the sun. And, one really should have used identical jackets in all but colour for this test. Using different jackets probably ends up in you primarily airflow efficiency.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thickness of material, fit of the garment and air flow are all more important than color. All I did was to reproduce the findings of the research done with the Bedouins back in the 80's. A thick black material absorbs the sun's radiation but does not transmit that heat to the body as black also radiates more heat. If the jacket fits loosely so that it allows air flow under the garment, this also insulates the body and promotes evaporation of sweat, which cools the body. If you wear a thin black material directly on the skin, it will be hotter. It is more complicated than just color.

[@andywiggens1069]

I agree with 99% of what you say,But my black mesh was a lot hotter than my grey mesh. you should measure the heat on a grey jacket that isn't mesh. compare apples to apples

[@ryangniazdowski3107]

But all the data was taken during a stop, not while riding. Not a good test.

[@lawrencecarmen2473]

Why not test two opposite colors with same exact jackets? Obviously if it’s not all white there will be less temp difference from black one.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

I could repeat the test, but it will come out the same. Color plays only a small roll in determing how hot a given article of clothing will be.

[@lawrencecarmen2473]

@@LivingOffTheSlab You’re probably right. It’s just frustrating watching different you tubers getting difference results telling us the difference is 10-20 degree difference and you’re telling us it’s just couple degrees and it really doesn’t matter which clothing we buy. If I like riding naked what about color of the motorcycle? Does it matter if I buy all black bike vs white? I hear bikes overheat and I cannot find one video on the whole freakin internet about it!!! Thank you for all you do!!!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

@@lawrencecarmen2473 I understand your frustration. Black as a color does indeed absorb more heat, but it also radiates more heat. However, the thickness of the fabric and how the garment fits plays a bigger role in how hot it will get. If there is room underneath for air to move, that helps cool the body. That is how the Bedouins get away with wearing black or dark clothing in the Sahara. On a motorcycle, we are moving, creating wind that carries the heat away from our bodies as sweat evaporates. All of those factors are more important than the color of the garment. What you want is a jacket that has some room underneath, but not super loose. It should also have good ventilation that allows you to control the amount of air that gets through. As the temps get really hot, you actually want to limit the amount of air. 110 degree air passing over your body does not cool you. As far as bike color goes....buy what you like. I go with light color bikes because they are easier to see.

[@lawrencecarmen2473]

@@LivingOffTheSlab Good info. I appreciate your time sharing from your experience.

[@joonanhwang5518]

Myself is one of who respect this sort of concern. But It must be simple issue, if we see traditional culture in clothing in Arabian countries. What is the reason why male only is allowed to wear white cloths. I dearly like to recommend you to take into account the reason. if there were no difference caused by color of cloth, lots of male also would prefer black color, because it is relatively much easier to cleaned and maintained.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

My point with all of this, other than to have a bit of fun, is to point out that it is not as simple as one color being hotter than another. The other factors like thickness of the fabric and amount of ventilation are much larger determinants of how hot you will be inside a particular jacket. As we are moving down the road, ventilation and evaporation of sweat are what is most important to keeping you from overheating, not the color of the jacket.

[@Andre-cu2zp]

I had already been told that these summer coats were a fraud! The difference is in the quality of the textile GOROTEX!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Mesh jackets have their uses. They are just not as effective when the temps get really high as you would think. Thanks!

[@mikes_cigar_lounge.]

Good video! How is your wife doing?

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

Thanks! She is going much better. Getting to me more herself.

[@LorenDavis]

What this experiment doesn't tell us is how much "work" your body was doing to regulate your body temperature for each jacket.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

By work I assume you mean how many calories are burned through the process of sweating and evaporation. I will not be buying the equipment necessary to measure that..lol, but I suspect the difference is minimal. Even in the mesh jacket you are still sweating about the same amount. The sweat just does not sit on the skin very long, it gets blown off almost immediately. It would be a interesting test though.

[@Angry-Lynx]

Only 2 degrees? ONLY? Do you understand that if your body temperature is 1*c above normal it means you're sick. Thats huge difference!

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

We are not talking core temperature. This is external temps between the jacket and skin, and I am using F as I am in the US.

[@Boobtube.]

test is flawed, if his temp was what he said it was, he would be near death. Anything at 95 *F or lower, humans are going to have a problem. He said his temp was 80 something. Impossible.

[@LivingOffTheSlab]

With all due respect, I was not measuring my internal temp which my body maintains within the limits you suggest. My external skin temperature can vary depending on the circumstances and is a better indicator of the cooling effect provided by sweat, wind etc.