How Murray Rothbard Changed my Mind on War | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.

[@heyassmanx]

Every time I'm randomly in conversation with an economics major, I ask if they've ever heard of the Austrian school, Murray Rothbard or anarcho-capitalism and am stupefied to still have never gotten a "yes". There's a reason these schools of thought don't receive proper discussion in major educational institutions, and it's the same reason a truly honest politician could never make it in today's political landscape...

[@fountaincap]

I didn't major in econ but took a few courses in it and was lucky to have a conservative/libertarian professor who had us read Rothbard and Hayek among others and even described anarcho-capitalism to us as an interesting idea we might want to check out. But this guy sure made a lot of enemies among the Marxist student body and you're right that having a formal education featuring Austrian economics is exceedingly rare.

[@benjammin6228]

fountainhead Keynesian economics seems to be more common I think. I don't know for sure because I'm not a econ major.

[@traceybaldwin6509]

I had Econ I & II in college in the 80s, and all I ever heard was Keynesian theory. Never heard of Austrian economics until Ron Paul.

[@wyattjd1157]

@@fountaincap That guy sounds like a walking baseball bat, where do I go to take his classes?

[@jasonbracewell6345]

​@@wyattjd1157I had an Austrain professor my first econ class in college. He name dropped Austrian economics explicitly.

[@rkheusuk1]

I had the privilege of attending this meeting and had the honor of meeting Dr. Ron Paul in person at that time.

[@ProlificThreadworm]

Nice bro. Like this comment to pass on to me 🤜

[@juanfelipe8484]

Amazing

[@tylerhurson8515]

Wow, having known of him only from his radio show, Tom Woods is so much more animated that I imagined him to be. What an excellent speech.

[@Harrichael]

you should check out his talk on depression of 1921

[@joeyservo]

The guy really has standup comic-esque timing. I would have murdered to have a professor like him back in college, in any subject really.

[@BluesmaNeedham]

This might actually be one of the best speeches I have ever heard. From the delivery, to the incredible words of wisdom and truth in it, this was fantastic.

[@morga68657]

I received a degree in Economics from Penn State. In 4 years, not a word on the Austrian views. Not until I heard Tom woods, started to read Rothbard, Hayek and Mises did I realized, what a bunch of garbage I was taught college. Thank you Tom Woods and the Mises institute.

[@sendtoanthony]

I enjoyed his book “Meltdown". Didn't know he was so funny. I'm guilty as well for cheering on the wars.

[@imonlyamanandiwilldiesomed4406]

Yup, Tom is funny. This is the funniest thing i've seen from him: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqPGfmibramrmcU Blooper reel: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZSln5h7jNWCsM0

[@Equity213]

I LOVE Toms point about "we" at 12:00 I always have to point this out when debating

[@Maxi_carz]

Here we are 10 years into the future and it look worse then when they had the talk

[@JDoubleOP]

This is consciousness rising !!! Amazing speach Mr. Woods

[@cguerra]

Your story about talking in front of the Desert Storm Veterans inspired me to keep studying and blogging about them. I will read Anatomy of the State next! thanks!

[@benjammin6228]

Carlos Guerra I listened to the audiobook brought to you by the mises institute.

[@Loomr]

How ever I am sympathetic towards Rothbard. It is just that his revolution has not happened in any country or area yet. I feel that whether we are talking about natural science, behavioral science or political science this reality is our testing lab, and that given enough time, those theories that are to happen will happen at some point. The Rothbardian model should come into being if it is a realistic one. I'd be happy to see it and live there if it does.

[@deinish1]

I always kinda disliked Tom Woods because I thought there was this Neo Con element in him, but now I realize how disgraceful that was of me. The guy is a legend.

[@TheProgressiveParent]

thanks Tom! very inspiring

[@grimupnorth9336]

What this video teaches us is that if you have a brain you have no political home and probably never will.

[@vaughanstarr3725]

Starving Iraqi kids with sanctions? Such an argument removes any responsibility of the Iraqi regime.

[@dibaterman]

The is America Murray, "We live in a society!" All jokes aside he's going into the necessary evil question about the state but that's where pragmatism comes in. If we do not have a state that will do the ugly for us, heaven help us against the state that will do the ugly for them. It's the same problem with anarchism, we have scarcity; perceived or real. People negotiate based on their situation and act on their considerations. I am of course not for uncritical approaches to the military however Milton Friedman was deathly wrong about the assumption that people are intrinsically appreciative of other peoples right to have self governance. His ideas from the 70's and 80's have now damned us to a conflict with China. You can say that everything else got us here but the truth is a key driver in it was free market capitalism with the applied pragmatic logic above. We certainly wanted a free and fair market, and heaven help us against the state that will do the ugly to us for them. The correct solution is to embrace the natural law of things, we have winners and losers, losers learn by surviving the loss and applying the tactics of the winner. Much like primum non nocere it should be every economists first truth that it is not in the interest of the winner to win less next time. The other part about the intellectual class and state apparatus is very true, and that rabbit hole goes deep but that's a distraction from the real point of that the system right now is needed. That's my view anyway.

[@pauldarling330]

You can't decry the suffering of others as a justification for non-interventionist policies. Not my circus, not my monkeys is a better policy.

[@jubjub2112]

I love what Woods says about the state and "we" . . . this really has been pummeled into our heads and hearts from our earliest education/indoctrination! The moment I heard this simple truth (that there is no "we" regarding the people and the state) it made perfect sense! Beautiful!

[@TomWoodsTV]

On your planet I apparently said 1000 people opposed the Vietnam War. What I said on this planet was that about 1000 left-liberals hold the views of the warfare state I lay out in this video. You said "millions" of leftists agreed with what I was saying here decades ago. My reply to you was: oh, really? Leftists were as consistently antiwar as I am in this speech, root and branch and on principled grounds? Some opposed the Vietnam War, but as you concede, very few are consistent.

[@mjl1621]

What got us into WWII was getting involved in WWI, and it was really a continuation of the same war. WWI was a European war, and it made no difference to the U.S. who won that war. But the treaty of Versailles placed the blame of the war on Germany and that led to the rise of Hitler. But because of our involvement we had into WWII. If we stayed out of WWI we could have avoided most of the wars of the 20th century. Its entangling alliances that lead to world wars.

[@kensurrency2564]

You can thank the elites who run the world. They carried Wilson into office, and he did everything they wanted. Lied us into WWI, engineered the Treaty, guaranteed another war. The elites just needed a demagogue, it could have been Ludendorff just as easily as Hitler. The 20th Century was all planned, tied up in a neat bow by the time the Y2K ‘crisis’ ended. The 21st Century has also been planned, don’t you think? PNAC was setting up the problem-reaction-solution to the first ‘crisis’ of the new century. It’s all planned, and it’s waaaaaaaay above our heads.

[@Alfosan2010]

What is the difference between the goverment and mafia? _______________ (feel free to fill in the blank)

[@ProlificThreadworm]

Its the social contract

[@therotaryrocket]

Ain't gonna lie, I really did, and that was before seeing your comment....haha, Tom is an amazing speaker, and it's an amazing message. Very encouraging, we need to get the message out!

[@mashariqkhan2655]

Too good. Cant get enough of the libertarian dose

[@Sigridovski]

Tom Woods in fantastic, though he keeps saying he is not. I cried after this lecture. It is wonderful!

[@FishFromInnsmouth]

Wow he's a good speaker, would love to see him run for office some day.

[@bossking6927]

nice public speaking very entertaining and educational thank you

[@erentheca]

Nope, it doesn't, not in the slightest.

[@duncant63]

I salute you Sir. So great to listen to this!

[@RuFFRyDas87]

Great talk to come back to after a day of reading Rothbard. You the man Woods!

[@jackson32]

I used to be a one of the sheeple and didn't think ( I think that was the problem) anything much of the Iraq war and all the innocent civilians who were killed. It's encouraging to know people can wake up and see that they were wrong, dead wrong, about something so important as war. Being ignorant like that is bad enough , but what is worse is continuing to hold those beliefs when people are trying to wake you up.

[@pretorious700]

I'm an American expat in thailand. I am a US veteran, served in Vietnam, I lost my older brother in the same war, my father was a decorated vet in the Army Air corp in WW2. I had a small engineering business in the US for over 30 years, paid huge personal and business taxes, provided capital that supported families, etc. Now the IRS wants to collect income taxes on money I make here on my retirement farm. Just consider that for a moment. I collect no social security, and don't plan to ever.

[@21Cabins]

Bitcoin brought me here. Have been binge watching and reading about Bitcoin, hard money, Rothbard, Mises etc. You can't change Bitcoin but Bitcoin changes k!

[@ThingWhatKicks]

Unquestionably one of Tom's greatest talks!

[@modelmark]

Great talk, I'v always said that the things won't get better until libertarians and anarchists will stop saying 'we' when they talk about themselves and their coercers.

[@JamieZero7]

I love how uni didn't teach him this. And that was back then. Think how bad university must be now.

[@tripletwentyy]

The consumer electronics industry is remarkably efficient. Look at the prices of TVs, laptops, and cell phones today as compared to 10, 15, 20 years ago. They've plummeted for several fundamental economic reasons, one being improved efficiency. This is the whole point of a pure capitalist economy--to service a legitimate demand at the least possible cost. People on welfare can afford a 60-inch plasma. What's immoral about silver, gold, and copper?

[@sion1138]

Is the consumer electronics industry efficient? Countless units are produced, minor improvements warrant new releases and they are all eaten up. Recycling is latent, in most cases impossible. 80 to 85 percent of products fill up landfills. The waste is toxic, people are poisoned in recycling plants. Silver, gold, platinum, copper... Efficient? Dare I also inquire as to the 'morality' of it? And this is only one industry.

[@tripletwentyy]

The only examples I can think of right away are predatory lenders, but their actual success is debatable. and tobacco co.'s, but what exactly are they wasting? Generally what business is successful despite its wastefulness and damaging tendencies? Damaging to what, the environment, people? And wasteful in what regard? Are they wasting time, money, resources, equipment? Yet somehow 'success' pops out of the equation. I guess some biz practices backfire (ie house-flipping), but that's speculation.

[@tripletwentyy]

One can efficiently produce junk, see GE. The market punishes inefficiency. Sure consumers can be duped or make mistakes, but that is normal within any market. Lack of quality, value, and competence just won't survive (unless you're the govt and have a license to tax/imprison). Read John Allison's book on banking and the financial crisis. You'll never look at regulations the same way. Which specific regulations are there to protect me; how can some politician possibly know what's best for me?

[@sion1138]

Perhaps, but I don't quite see the unambiguously positive side. Influence is exerted when there are regulations in place preventing certain actions on the part of a corporate structure. Some of these regulations are there to protect you. Also, do we achieve actual or merely market efficiency? One can efficiently produce junk and successfully 'push it' onto consumers through marketing or produce variants of a product in rapid succession, each prompting the target to buy anew. Not quite efficient

[@tripletwentyy]

Yea but if there is very little or no policy (regulation) at all, then what is there for them to influence, other than natural market forces? In a free society, if one's only way of obtaining wealth/influence is thru political means, they would not survive. The market rewards efficiency and responsive innovation and punishes inefficiency/incompetence (govt). As for currency, it would be much stronger and far more sound...those at the proverbial bottom wouldn't need govt assistance anyway...

[@sion1138]

I could be on the wrong track here, but isn't it likely that if you remove intervention, if you deregulate the free market and you leave the system in place that allows for the accumulation of power (capital) by any and all individuals able in that arena, you will fairly soon end up with the same thing you have now, maybe just dressed differently? I mean, you may end up with insane individuals holding tremendous power in the form of capital and then they may enforce their will anew.

[@mjl1621]

There have been repressive regimes since before and after of the founding of this country and the founders understood that the people would be inclined to want to intervene. But the reason Washington, Jefferson, and Madison supported a non-interventionist foreign policy is because they believed that we should only be concerned with our own security, and that the people under repression would have to establish their own governments like we did, and that we should be an example.

[@Zarrov]

States operate in environment of anarchy. There is no one who enforces rules of behaviour. Therefore the only rule there is is your power translated to infuence in name of security. Becuase security means potentially everything all states in order to preserve their freedom and ability to develop have to spread their control/influence over other parts of the world. War is just one of the means to achieve that goal. Security does not necesarily translate to economic gain.

[@Zarrov]

I was not talking about destruction nor wars in specific, destruction has many names. But your words are good example of why there is tremonodus lack of understanding on american libertarian part what foreign policy is, and how unique US situation in that regard is. Becuase of natural geopolitical position of US it is one of the rare examples in history, where isolationism could make sense for the time being till circumstances would not change.

[@Zarrov]

Thats cultural thing for US.I come from country which was constantly attacked by its neighbours and whose populus was decimated during those wars,loosing countless milions.US never had this experience.The only experience they ever had is experience of the empire.Economists,like Woods,rarely do understand foreign policy and reasons behind states behaviour. Its cold,uncaring world out there,with powers bent to destroy anyone who opposes them. Not becuase of hate, but becuase it simply is logical.

[@wiimooden]

Iran is also much weaker than it was 10 years ago. Hezbollah and Hamas have distanced themselves from it, Assad's regime is slowly dying, and Arab opinions on Iran are souring. It honestly doesn't matter what the elected President of Iran says (though he referred to the Israeli occupied territories) as the clergy (Supreme Leader + Assembly of Experts) hold most of the power. Iran still has some use to the US and its allies however.

[@wiimooden]

You my friend, need to transcend what your politicians have been telling you. A bit of research will confirm everything that I've mentioned. Between 1980 and 2006, the Iranian population jumped from 39 million to 70 million. Factor that in with current sanctions. Half of the population is A. Under 30 and B. not ethnically Persian. Nearly every non-aligned country has recognized Iran's right to peaceful nuclear development. Iran is no pariah state, the US knows it, and so does Israel.

[@wiimooden]

Iran has signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, unlike India, Pakistan, and Israel all 3 of which have nuclear programs AND have admitted that such programs are specifically intended for nuclear weapons capability. When you consider the fact that the US first offered Iran's dictatorial shah the reactors, Iran's current population explosion, and the number of its people killed in Iraq's western funded invasion (~600,000), the truth about its intentions are quite clear.

[@tripletwentyy]

See my earlier remark. Let's be real here and exchange value for value. I honestly can't find an ounce of true regard for any mischaracterizations of me you may choose to express. I'll refrain from any retaliatory inflammatory commentary because it's not really my style, and frankly, it's just pathetic. Have you written books of your own and/or can you recommend any legitimate sources who correctly refute Woods' work?

[@tripletwentyy]

No, I'm asking honest questions, backed by honest curiosity. I'm not really concerned with being called 'dumb,' (you've done this before, but it's all good) or trading asinine remarks on a silly internet chat-thread. But if you do indeed have ample, substantiated refutations to any of Woods' work, I'd be happy to read. I've read half of his books, and many of his recommended books. Perhaps you have books of your own that address Woods' historical shortcomings?

[@Joe11Blue]

Where does the federal government derive the power to assume that I gave consent? Where does the federal government derive any of it's power? This is not about state rights, had you listened to what Tom Woods was actually saying you would understand that. You do not actually know the Libertarian argument do you? This is the third time I have encountered you while denouncing your own interpretation of what you assume the Libertarian argument is. You are still incorrect.

[@Joe11Blue]

He never specified that those rights were not enumerated elsewhere. Also if you understood the Libertarian argument you would then realize that we do not place much value in the Constitution. In general we only bring it up because people like you have this irrational devotion to a piece of hemp. Natural Rights and Natural Law are far older than anything ever mentioned by Classical Liberals and the idea of the United States.

[@Loomr]

Alright but I would like to challenge the thinking that for example the ethnic cleansing of Kosovo should not have been intercepted. As far as "the enemy beyond the mountains", well, if your neighbor happens to be Russia, a state that has the tendency to drive into a small country like Georgia with tanks, you sometimes thank the pressure that US put on the said country to restrain being a complete gangster towards certain western countries. Of course some were not that lucky and paid a price.

[@utube918273]

I strongly believe in Austrian economic theory. But the libertarian "no war" stance is ludicrous. I wonder what South Korea would look like today if the U.S. stayed home. I wonder how many Jews could have been saved during WWII had we not buried our head in the sand until Pearl Harbor. Notice how Woods doesn't provide an argument beyond "it didn't feel right because war hurts people." Welcome to the world.

[@1998awest]

Man, I love Dr. Woods. He has that rare ability to teach extremely well and entertain all at the same time. I laugh my ass off and learn great stuff from him. What's great about this lecture is how he has the integrity to call himself out for being wrong on previous views. How many great academics do that? Someday, some brilliant whipper snapper will give a great speech saying how wrong he/she was until he/she found this crazy Tom Woods guy who made him/her question the conventional wisdom.

[@tripletwentyy]

Interesting thought but who knows? Don't want to call it wrong track but...the more I study about the free market and authentic capitalism, the less possible the scenario you illustrate seems. Specific sources I'd suggest are Lew Rockwell, Butler Shaffer, and of course Tom Woods. But Shaffer has some great writings on what you've mentioned above...

[@wiimooden]

Israel is by far the dominant state in the region, thanks to the US' continuing support. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, while it appeared as though they were pursuing relations with Hamas (they've actually experienced a sharp rift recently), is now occupied with domestic affairs. Not even Iran at this point can be said to be much of an aggressive military threat.

[@harmanpabla7315]

I think the phrase describing our ruling elite would be that they are "...a little more equal than the rest of us." If that makes any sense.

[@Joe11Blue]

Yes, it took weeks of you being owned on several videos for you to finally listen and understand. This is one insect that doesn't get offended over words if the end result is my justification with you dropping that dogmatic idealism of the state. Insult all you wish, I was proven correct, again.

[@Craftstorm]

Years between them, and yet comments on this video tend to be unusually well written, wouldn't You agree?

[@TheBest-ff8zz]

I'd suggest, that he and his fellow liberterians would study the field of military strategy and what it means having psycho dictators with WMDs, and only then consider deriding the meanings of and for war..

[@nosajsmas]

Interesting. Tom is the guy who changed my mind about war. While I'm here, freedom lovers, if you have not yet found Lysander Spooner, you need to. watch?v=8u9esdteSRA&feature=relmfu watch?v=mOP-GCAhyoE&feature=relmfu

[@zazszdzfzgzhzjzkzlzx]

Good talk!

[@libertarianjury]

Tom Woods is brilliant, as is Rothbard. Of the two, I think Woods does a better job of reaching out to Joe Sixpack.

[@secondsleep]

I agree. I don't think we need to continue our streak of imperialistic world-policing, but I don't think we can apply the private market model to everything-- one of which is the US armed forces.

[@durich1000]

Ron Paul? Ron Paul is against the separation of church and state. You cannot be more against freedom than that

[@Joe11Blue]

It's we as in everyone that you are including with your idiocy. Even though three days ago you were telling me that I was obligated to your whims. Look at that you are learning finally.

[@TheRandalf90]

You misunderstood me. I wasn't saying to put any quotas, I just wanna to know if there isn't any women in the mises institute. I'd like to see some women speech too, only that.

[@yinzjagoffs]

Thank you Tom, you have helped changed my life and view of the world. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@lamdash]

I was making a reference to an Internet joke and not at all speaking about politics. I will simply hope that you replied to the wrong comment.

[@TomWoodsTV]

Type in Nullify Now Los Angeles Woods.

[@MiriBenii]

Nothing has changed for thousands of years and nothing will change.

[@asleeperj]

Destruction is inherently illogical. If it was logical then theft, rape, and murder would be voluntary for both parties involved.

[@tripletwentyy]

Oh, yea...now I remember you. Easy fella, not gonna bicker with you or trade barbs. We'll leave that to the jr. high girls...

[@grraadd]

8:20 In communist countries there were all people equal, but some were just equaler...

[@CSBurksesq]

What is with the ominous music? I expect Jimmy Carter to sit there, smile and tell us we're all going to die.

[@groupflix]

besides this chicken hawk finally growing a brain on the issue

[@Joe11Blue]

What is hard to understand is how people with so much twisted and irrational thought make it through life.

[@Joe11Blue]

You were the tool that was cheering on Statism not even two weeks ago in this very comment section.

[@Loomr]

Mandate from whom? If you see a crime happening do you ask whether you have a mandate to stop it?

(6:03) _"But I just thought, all these people just, I mean forget about the civilians, that, that's a whole separate matter, but technically, according to the logic of war, I'm supposed to either hate these people who were just killed, or at the very least think of them as human garbage not even worth my time. And yet I couldn't do that, I just thought, this is a horrible thing that just happened to a lot of people, and now there are widows and orphans all over the place in that country, a country that never did a thing to me, wasn't even remotely considering doing a thing to me. How can I enjoy a Bob Hope special after that? There's something was wrong, there's something callous about this, and it ate away at me, and it ate away at me. I didn't immediately change my ways, I rooted for the reelection of George HW Bush against Bill Clinton in the great titanic struggle of the 20th century. Ay! And then I started reading more Rothbard, I started reading Murray Rothbard the economist, because of the Mises university program after the effects on me. But I started reading his other work, I read his essay 'Anatomy of the State', I read his essay 'War, Peace and the State'. You'll never look at the world the same way again, because you could just shock your civics books into the trash can after you read 'Anatomy of the State' by Rothbard, because he's not gonna go for any of this stuff about, well, the State is there to provide for the common good, and the people who staff it are selfless crusaders for justice who are innocently trying to do what's best for you and me."_ Apparently, Tom Woods reacted like a Stirnite Egoist at that point: _«If, on the other hand, a thief were to take away his basket, there would at once arise an interest of many, of the whole city, of the entire country, or, in one word, of all who abominate theft: an interest wherein the person of the chestnut-vender would be indifferent, and in its place the category of 'one who is robbed' would appear in the forefront. But here, too, it might still all be resolved into a personal interest, each participant reflecting that he must aid in the punishment of the thief because, otherwise, unpunished stealing would become general and he also would lose his possessions. There are many, however, from whom such a calculation is not to be presumed. Rather, the cry will be heard that the thief is a 'criminal.' Here we have a judgment before us, the act of the thief receiving its expression in the conception 'crime.' Now the matter presents itself in this way: If a crime should work not the slightest damage either to me or to any of those for whom I take concern, yet nevertheless I should be zealous against it. Why? Because I am enthused for morality, filled with the idea of morality. I run down what is hostile to it. . . . Here personal interest comes to an end.»_ - James L. Walker (Tak Kak). *Stirner on Justice.* _Liberty (March 26, 1887) vol. 4 no. 18 (whole no. 96) p. 7_ [document 603] library.libertarian-labyrinth.org/items/show/2390 library.libertarian-labyrinth.org/items/show/2797 • Max Stirner. *The Ego and His Own.* (1845), English edition of "Der Einzige und Sein Eigenthum." _Benj. R. Tucker, Publisher (First English edition, 1907)_ gutenberg.org/ebooks/34580 df.lth.se/~triad/stirner/theego/theego.pdf theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-the-ego-and-his-own URL source G+ post with some excerpts: plus.google.com/+ZephyrLópezCervilla/posts/8EkQwUApQ1u

[@xxmrbiu3xx]

That was an intellectually beautiful speech! Bravo good sir, Bravo!

[@tripletwentyy]

lol, they're stated in plain view for you. Answer or not, I really don't care. Cheers.

[@quasimodojdls]

Hmm.... there's two dislikes now. It looks like Obama and Romney have seen it.

[@djb5255]

He couldn't be more right at 9:00... coming from a walmart employee.

[@tripletwentyy]

If he doesn't have a clue, then a clue is not something I desire.

[@dangerousideas5356]

meltdown was indeed trash af, read rothbard.

[@hobbit2245]

God DAMN! Tom Woods is on FIRE lately! I don't know what happened, but something made him REALLY angry recently and it comes out in his presentations.

[@Elmgren76]

Would be fun to see Tom Woods debate Barack Teleprompterobama.

[@pretorious700]

Why didn't you pay attention in grammar class?

[@LFSPharaoh]

12:10 THIS

[@pretorious700]

I'm aware of all of this. I was drafted, I didn't volunteer. and when I returned home, I actively protested against the war.

[@dwcarkuff]

Apparently you aren't familiar with "just war theory".

[@tripletwentyy]

Legitimate demand as opposed to state-induced demand (ie affordable housing), where the price of the good is determined by the consumer and producer, not public policy. What waste are you referring to? Not intimately familiar with recycling woes, but are you saying landfills are 80-85% filled with recyclables and recycling plants are polluted with unrecyclable toxic waste? Who controls these facilities, the state? Probably, and therein lies your problem. Again, what's wrong with Au, Ag, and Cu

[@sion1138]

Precious metals being wasted without any foresight, that's what's wrong. I wasn't implying anything to be wrong with the materials themselves. Secondly, I was referring to consumer electronic products, 85 percent of them end up on landfills. Their waste is toxic and is capable of releasing into the air. Furthermore, recycling them is a health hazard for those who do it. And no, recycling plants are not run by the government.

[@sion1138]

Much obliged. As it is, it seems to me from part experience, part fact and part admittedly subjective reasoning, that historically and also currently the holders of power in currency's form did and do exert great influence on policy, which in many cases is not positive. Now, by removing regulation you would only make the process easier, subtract one hurdle. But, thank you for replying in good spirits. I am not used that.

[@Paetaor]

I used to watch Rush when I was in college but I never fell for the war BS. As a Canadian I can confirm that we are war-fatigued from Afghanistan, I can only imagine how most Americans feel. Not seeing our brave men and women coming home in boxes anymore has lifted a great weight from our colective shoulders. I hope America can shed this burden sooner than later.

[@tripletwentyy]

The electronics recycling centers in my city are govt-run. Some aren't, but the certifications they obtain are of course govt issued. I know little about their efficiency statistics, and even less about the toxicity of an old tv. Getting back to the original issue of (de)regulation, it is over-regulation and the ever expanding influence and intervention of the state that are utterly strangling this country to death. Examples abound within the sources I cited earlier. Interesting info, cheers

[@jubjub2112]

Excellent! I too was once a supporter of Obama (though I couldn't say "ardently"). I saw Obama as the lesser of two evils, but was unaware that there was a politician, and party, and ideology that so closely matched my views and beliefs. Ron Paul is a true American treasure, and Tom Woods and the rest at the Mises Institute are brilliant! They brought be back from political death!