How Nations Make Up National Identities | NYT - The Interpreter

Nationality feels powerful, especially today. But the idea of identifying with millions of strangers just based on borders is relatively new. We explain why it was invented - and how it changed the world.
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[@ShadeShake]

Just watching this because of online classes

[@hannalunetta6766]

same

[@cuhrt1248]

facts

[@bagelcrumb8390]

@Kariinschii ooooof lol, goodluckk!

[@bagelcrumb8390]

@Kariinschii niceeee! goodjobbb

[@user-gy9dh2ox6p]

same here

[@SwedishTards]

Open borders for Israel

[@alexduke1950]

Latinos for open borders for israel. Diversity is our strength

[@natefoxman]

Israel requires strong borders to prevent it from becoming another shithole country in the Middle East overrun with fanatical Islamists.

[@nantzstein3311]

LoNaSwe DEUS VULT

[@awyattman]

LoNaSwe Israel must be culturally enriched

[@marwan6006]

if thats how you want to destroy israel then thats how

[@sjenner76]

A few points of sharp critique. First, the nation state is not a failure. It’s a stunning success. It has resulted in more material prosperity and stability than anything tried before. Indeed, if it did not it would not have proliferated. The world today is richer and more peaceful than probably any other time in human history. The cited examples of the nation state as failure point to what happens when nation states become empires, and substitute nationalism for patriotism. As such the example demonstrates the horrors that are possible when nation states fail by failing to respect the integrity of the next nation state. Of course, Gengis Khan never had a nation state. And he butchered millions using swords and arrows. And medieval cities certainly were no picnic for Jews. Perhaps it’s less the nation state and more the grotesqueries of the human animal combined with the darker side of technology that explains what happened in the 20th Century. Second, the Soviet Union wasn’t a country. It was an empire. In ignoring the integrity of the nation states forced to be part of that monstrous enterprise, the USSR in fact proved the opposite of the core proposition advanced in this video. Third, the silly claim that America didn’t quite work ... cut to video of silly people ... there argument done is hardly compelling. The United States is the only nation thus far that has posited a workable model for large scale and sustained immigration. Even at our worst, we’re far more diverse than any other major modern country. As of 2010, the U.S. was 12.9 percent foreign born. It may be claimed that Australia and Canada are higher. But when U.K. (and indeed, other Western European) nationals are excluded, their numbers are no better than the U.S. and are likely lower. Just as importantly, the combined populations of Australia and Canada are less than 20 percent that of the U.S., meaning that much lower overall immigration numbers have far more impact statistically. The U.S. is a true success on the concept of open liberal society. It isn’t perfect. But, if perfection is the requirement, then we might as well just trash the whole universe. None of it’s perfect.

[@dohacheese]

Here Here! I might add that this essay oversimplifies the construction of national identity to an absurd level. It may be wise for these folks to carefully read or re-read The Nation and Its Fragments by Partha Chatterjee and Imagined Communities by Benedict Anderson. No self-respecting academic looks at nation-building as this sort of farcical-nefarious plot to hurt people or to destroy the world: the creation of national identity stemmed from quite organic and modernizing effects, print capitalism being chief among them. But more importantly, national myths often stem from already nascent traditions within the community. There is little evidence to support such a vapid statement like "the nation was made up" when the reality is far more expansive and organic. Most nations derive their identity from a vast archive of texts, documents, stories, and such. And while this archive may have been updated or renovated from time to time, it is still very much a real thing. A modern Spaniard will still refer to Rodrigo El Cid as one of the first great Spaniards, even though El Cid lived nearly 300 years before the first inklings of modern Spain in 1492. Even in nations like Mexico where the government and national identity are fairly young, the people draw upon cultures, histories, languages, and myths that are thousands of years old in order to imagine themselves as something truly unique and beautiful to the world. This video makes a viewer believe that all of this nation building is at best silly and at worst nefarious--honestly a rather lazy reading of cultural studies. Does forming a national identity have its drawbacks? Absolutely. But what these people are implying is that we must neuter ourselves from history in order to forge a new history devoid of those drawbacks. Newsflash: people across vast expanses of history have already tried doing that, and it never really worked out the way they intended. I applaud the effort that the NYT is trying to inform people about national identity, but a 5 minute video laden with ideology and resentment of the nation is not the way to go about doing that. Ok, I will shut up now.

[@sjenner76]

Rex Wilkins, couldn’t agree more. Great and informative points. I would also add the idea of subsidiarity, that matters should be handled at the lowest level of governance capable of handling them. The nation-state constitutes the critical organizing factor against which such efforts can be meaningfully measured. When the nation-state is disregarded, it renders local organizing customs and approaches mute, as their sole measure is the state that is the aggregate combined expression of what local means. Thus all your points.

[@johnalexander651]

Canada specifically would still have a higher immigration rate than America if you don't count British people and people from the US. Most of our immigrants are from Chinese, the Indian subcontinent (Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Sri Lanka), the Philippines and the Middle East.

[@sjenner76]

John Alexander, good to know. Thanks for that. And good on Canada.

[@rubbishrabble]

Australia & Canada wouldn't have a higher immigration rate than the US without the Brits. 4%-5% of MA and the Northernmost New England states of ME, NH, and VT identified as Quebecois in 1880. Forgetful of the Canadian-US historical immigration disparity? Besides CA & TX 37% Hispanic/Latino 28/70 million. faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/readings/leaving.htm

[@1337BananaL33TVostok]

I used be very patriotic of my country until i became an adult. I then began to realize how hollow this feeling was, hollow as a rotten tree. You can conform with the masses or live as individual, but either way you are on your own and the only thing you can physically identify with is family.

[@BigBoss-sm9xj]

I think you need both, so it’s a balance

[@gray3589]

Bro, tell that to me. I live in Europe, but I can't take the people of this country. They're absolutely trash, and they embrace their wrongdoings. It's super disgusting.

[@kirilmkdsrb]

True bro, me at first earlier identify more as Macedonian but now as a Serb, firstly I went through Macedonia and I didn't find myself there, then I belive that when I go to Serbia that I will find myself more but at the end I realise that the only place I'm home is only the place where I'm born and where my relatives and people from the begging are. Also I belive in these myths like religion and nationalism but when I grow up I realised that they only do bad things and just divide people. Greatings to you bro ❤️

[@IssaMorphic]

Y'all need to credit Benedict Anderson

[@justinyang21114798]

"[the nation] is an imagined political community-- and imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign."

[@nicholasmckenna8614]

Agreed ^^

[@irnbru6458]

Yup

[@radiantsquare007jrdeluxe9]

no they need to credit your mom

[@kiwiopklompen]

Yeah - google imagined communities. Or also see Ernest Gellner. Brilliant academics and writers - they both explain nation building.

[@vehement-critic_q8957]

Nationality and nationalism in some states is a way to liberate people from dictator rulers and fascist regimes. Nationality and nationalism is a preservation of people's heritage in a certain region. Nationality and nationalism is not a myth, but the birth of a new united identity that reflects the sovereign of a particular community.

[@vehement-critic_q8957]

Dave Kumar So if nationalsim doesn't work well with you in India or Italy, it's not a deductive argument to generalise on all states.

[@correctionguy7632]

Karol Karpiński thats the lazyest definition of fascism as of far

[@antoonluyckx1430]

It is at least as much a way for fascist and dictatorial regimes (in general) to rise to power. There are several definitions and misconceptions of fascism, but no fascist regime has ever ruled without being nationalist at its core.

[@NoGodsNoMasters1885]

A neoliberal critic might argue that large, multinational corporate interests have replaced both the power of religion and government. I wonder what will take their place.

[@thribhuc2827]

Europeans do nationalism against immigrants, minorities, etc. Nationalism in post-colonial societies pits native against colonizer.

[@user-ej6ld2rl7u]

Then let's take France and the UK responsible for their colonial past. Why should Norway, Sweden, Poland, Ireland, Finland, Denmark have to take these aliens?

[@duesen756]

No matter what, I will always love my countries. I had the pleasure to grow up within two cultures. I'd say that I have another view on nationality than other people do. I respect all cultures and dont feel that my countries are superior in any way. But I still love my homes and always will.

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

Facts. The national identity came before the nation . This video is nonsense. Explain why so many Irish died in the 16th-20th centuries for a nation which did not yet exist

[@kiwiopklompen]

It isn’t nonsense. History scholarship (and anthropology) shows how nations are built over shared narratives, beliefs and values. They formally were tribes and ‘peoples’ now they are associated almost solely with a portion of land.

[@Gilotopia]

I like what you presented but you position yourself as anti nationalist drawing ire and opposition. The birth of nations was a good thing. It united people and in that unity they found the strength to bring our world to new heights. Think of what we can accomplish by uniting nations instead of dismantling them.

[@loganhurley5590]

Gilotopia I don't think being skeptical of the ideas of nations means dismantling countries, per se. Another way to think of it is to ask, "What ought to make people have self esteem?" In a nationalistic framework, the answer inevitably has to include "Well, I'm French," or "I'm an American, and we're the greatest country on Earth," or "I'm Chinese and we're strong." It's easy to see why this is problematic. It involves fiction, as the video pointed out. It also allows us to try to claim the virtues of the nation we're a part of as our own. This causes us to stop needing to advance on a personal level. We can be personally ignorant, deceitful, wicked, proud, and crude so long as we believe our nation is good. That's bad, because it distracts us from things that we can help to things that we don't really control, which produces anger, paranoia, and general unpleasantness. Not only that, but it often causes us to view the actions of our nation uncritically, because to say our nation did a bad thing would feel like saying that we ourselves did a bad thing. When our nation's virtue is our only virtue, we can't stand for it to be besmirched. It also means that we feel the need to denigrate all other groups because a group being better than my group means that those individuals are all better than me individually, if I think in terms of nations. Worse yet, it causes us to view those inside our nation who experience it very differently as the enemy. This is not only the root of fascism, but it promotes a kind of reflexivity in national action that only reifies current problems instead of finding solutions to those problems. Yes, the rise of nations certainly consolidated human creative and labor potential to reach new heights. With that efficiency, we almost immediately began two world wars, nearly destroyed the world with nuclear weapons, and have committed atrocities like the purge of the Native Americans, the Holocaust, and the imposed famines of the USSR, among countless others. That isn't to say that nationalism has had no positive impact whatsoever. Rather, I'd had contend that nation's have, from an objective stand point, done more harm than good overall. At the very least, you'd have to agree that even if you believe they're mostly good, they also have an ambiguous-at-best legacy.

[@goryounkoyounian9164]

I don't think he's arguing, though, that national identity should be completely dispensed. After all, national identity was an inevitable result of urbanization, industrialization, and economic modernization. For a government to be able to conduct policy, it needs to foster some kind of national identity among the population. His point of view seems to be rather that there's a need for a new national identity that is based more on values than allegedly intrinsic features like ethnicity and religion.

[@phm0750]

David Williams What you wrote made no sense. If they‘d actually be in favor of dismantling nation states, the result wouldn’t be open borders, it’d no borders. Also, things like elections wouldn’t exist, so there’s no point in doing this for new voters.

[@nnahomm]

imagine how many wars we couldve avoided if we didnt have any nations

[@Gilotopia]

nnahomm imagine all the wars that would have happened without nations. Imagine wars between Texas and California. Imagine wars between Bavarians and Saxons. Nations were the best peacemaker we could have come up with at the time.

[@pedroroque8681]

The world is run on stories. Identities, entertainment, social media, mainstream media, cinema, radio, music, politics, sales and business - All based on storytelling

[@sakurasam420]

This comment section is a real treat

[@kaiserdamasus1978]

A lot of lies in this video. Nationalism is the answer, not globalism.

[@meerpirat508]

Some way, but he's referring way too much to the USA. People like the Germans, poles etc had a national identity since ages already. The Germans identify themselves as Germans since someone united the Germanic tribes under the name Germania.

[@mekingtiger9095]

How about we reject both of them? Nationalism has always been toxic for insiders just as much as it has been for outsiders. It's just a mini globalism in my eyes.

[@metatron4890]

Take your internationalism elsewhere.

[@ObliviouslyAware]

I'm a black transsexual muslim woman with a violent history, how can I immigrate to the holy land of Israel back to where ALL of our tribes came from?

[@mattyhartley9079]

Nations are the biggest success in uniting a group of people together, more so than religion and bigger than any tribe, clan ever can be. I agree some nations are completely made up and usually lead to it not working or a war until military force or pure exhaustion from conflict forces it to make or break such as Yugoslavia breaking up...BUT a lot of nations have formed more naturally, where a shared struggle and history, sense of commonality makes it one big community. Shared language, values, ethnicity (sometimes quite loosely). We have yet to make anything else work better, the USA is doing well as a "anyone can become american" type nation and i hope it works out, but it will be severely tested as a nation over the next century...im optimistic though!

[@user-cr1hv8gf8d]

No one could say it better, nations were made up when we look at France in 1800 or Rodesia for ex. but now myth became reality, I do share a lot of values and other cultural things with my countriemen and I'd love to see our society develop without falling apart, and the nation(not the country) unites us

[@abdullahibrahim8938]

But is it really a problem to make up a national identity? I think connecting people together by a shared national identity (even if it's fake) is better than connecting them by race, religion, political ideologies...etc The American national identity is amazing (I'm not an American but the way), because it's based on values that anyone can hold thus allowing new immigrants to be assimilated and be proud of being Americans only by holding these values. whereas some nations like Japan made up its national identity around being ethnically Japanese which made it difficult to them to assimilate new immigrants, and this is why Japan is now dying (shrinking economy and population) and their GDP per capita is around half that of the US after it was higher than the US 30 years ago

[@epaburke]

Nation-states are not new. You can read about them in history going back more than 2,000 years. Even modern Western European nations are generally considered to have origins that go back about 1,000 years. Germany and Italy are the most notable exceptions to this-- Germany and Italy unified as nations in the late 19th century. The problems the narrator cites--dictatorship, racism, and genocide--were not caused by the German people defining themselves as citizens of a nation. They were caused by their refusal to do this. They wanted to continue to define themselves racially--to remain tribal--which won't really work in any large modern state, as none are homgeneous enough for that. Defining oneself as a citizen of a nation, and a member of the society that makes up that nation, is the basis for civilization and the rule of law. Deciding to give it up, in favor of defining oneself only as a member of a religion, ethnic, professional or political group would take us back thousands of years, not forward.

[@boio_]

Modern Nationalism is new, the existential roots that make up national identity stretch deep into history

[@giwrgosn8413]

Greece preserved its cities that were also states, so they had control, on the contrary, empires needed a model for the world to believe

[@Ian-jg6pj]

Now do one on Israel.

[@josephang9927]

Nations states are news, but states are not. City states are very old. Empires are nothing new. A nation is a balance between these two. Perfect? Not at all, but globalism is not different from imperialism, and it always ends the same way: 200 years and the empire falls apart, divided in many countries.

[@MrMobe127]

1:11 never heard of a language called Fleming. Do you mean Flemish?! 4:15 come on the Romans have been integrating people from other regions ages ago!

[@omerkaya545]

4:15 Switzerland did the same thing since 1291

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

What nonsense. national identity came before the nation not the other way around

[@joshuawaring4180]

Many historians would disagree with you.

[@giwrgosn8413]

the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

[@jameshiler7830]

The best thing about this video was all the footnotes.

[@danielgorzel7222]

Life and career Max Fisher was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Russian Jewish immigrant parents and grew up in Salem, Ohio EVERYTHING IS CLEAR NOW.

[@danielgorzel7222]

0:40,it's him.

[@alexduke1950]

oy vey, shut id down....

[@alexduke1950]

Easy, it's because Jews aren't white... they only claim to be it when fits their interests...

[@danielgorzel7222]

Written by neo nazis because it says if someone is jew or not? lol

[@AliTheHighest]

twoja stara oooooh oooh, I found the neo-Nazi! Do I get a prize or something?

[@josephang9927]

If countries are not important, then borders are not important. If borders are not important, then laws are not important. If laws are not important then democracy is not important, so there is no point on voting. Therefore, if nations are stupid, so is democracy and so is going to the polls.

[@hiitsme4877]

Yet alone knowing this fact does make one feel different. Unfortunately, it does not change anything. However, this is a great video to demonstrate what's the most powerful and destructive weapon of humanity. Thank you for this video I will always keep it in mind.

[@golubhimself]

You do realize that of the countries you showed as an example, the de facto citizens of the respective countries have something in common? France is a Catholic country based on Enlightenment principles, which population is genetically Gaulish and Frankish, with some Northern populations identifying as Norman (Nordic) or Breton (but they don't consider themselves French as-is). The United Kingdom of Great is a country with it's own Church which serves solely it's own country, and is founded by two Germanic tribes (The Angles and thr Saxon) which fused into one tribe or tribal group, the Anglo-Saxons. Scots and other celtic peoples like Welsh and Manx don't even consider themselves purely British because Britain is runned by an English aristocracy line, but the people who do care about nationality and aren't English reject the British crown Whereas India is a conglomerate of multiple peoples and it's quite artificial, but the fact is that they are all united by Hindu religion and common culture, with some minorities like Sikhs, who are just overly spiritualistic to care about nationality but don't identify as Indian but Sikh, and Indian Muslims who identify as themselves, that is Pakistanis. Just because the U.S. is a conglomerate of incoherently intermixed cultures doesn't mean the whole world is. Even the United States could be divided into as much as 11 cultural entities, and 50 legislative ones. They're not called the United STATES for nothing, as other than the international level, all of the states enjoy a high degree of autonomy, so much so each has it's own army, known as the National Guard.

[@Colin-ut6cm]

Everything made sense until the part where you talked about india. Everything you spoke about is objectively false in the indian part but everything is right.

[@HemantKumar-id3jg]

Sikhs don't identify as Indian 😂😂and Muslims identify as themselves that is Pakistanis 💀. Dude, just don't ever talk about India. 😂😂 And India is not "artificial" when British arrived on it's shores India had existed for 6 centuries (3 under mughals and 3 under the Delhi sultanate). That's longer than most European nation states.

[@omerkaya545]

You had racism before the nation state too, the vid is misleading lol

[@amatya.rakshasa]

Can you guys please suggest some books, papers , and other sources which explore these ideas? Thank you!

[@emilylouise05]

hi, this is pretty late but i’m currently writing an essay on this for my degree so can definitely give some suggestions!! here are some important works on this idea: imagined communities - Benedict anderson inventing traditions - Eric Hobsbawm Myths and history in the construction of national identity - Stefan Berger the nation and its fragments - Partha Chatterjee The age of empire - eric hobsbawm ch6

[@amatya.rakshasa]

@@emilylouise05 Thanks for the reading list Emily!! I’d gotten hold of Hobsbawm’s “On Nationalism”. I’ll go look up the rest you’ve recommended. Thank you. What’s your essay topic?

[@30secondsflat]

The works of Benedict Anderson are extremely relevant (“Imagined Communities”)

[@Earth098]

National Identity has nothing to do with racism. In fact, it enables different races to form a common identity. For example, one might pride oneself as 'American', instead of, white, black, brown, etc. In that sense it's a positive thing. But, at the same time we need to understand it's we are all global citizens.

[@bob15479]

Yeah, no one said national identity included race except the dude in the movie

[@TheKukun123]

It's human nature to flock with the similar kind. And if we've moved ahead from "race/religion" identity into a country specific "national" identity .. it's better, a step ahead honestly. Sure, there's a long way ahead when we look at ourselves just as Earthlings. But that day is yet to come, until then cherish your "national" roots

[@zhutwo]

It would sure be easier if we had people from other planets to help level up our tribalism one order of magnitude higher.

[@kosatochca]

⁠​⁠@@zhutwo The discovery of a “nefarious” alien life on a planet orbiting Proxima b would surely be a seminal step towards finally establishing global peace

[@_ata_3]

Why not cherish our earthling roots?

[@desp8161]

Has never heard of ethnicity in his life

[@MuhammadShafiqShafiqx]

In my opinion,national identity is based on how powerful your country. I’ve seen most of world power such as the U.S and the U.K feel proud to their countries whereas the developing nations such as Malaysia and Indonesia, they’re less proud of their nations because they aren’t first world. But we still need more research about this ideology:)

[@andikawardhana9616]

Muhammad Shafiq not really nationalism isn't about the rich or the level of the state it's about our love and loyalty over our country how bad it is.

[@n25783]

No, no, no, not at all!! I am from Bangladesh and my country is nowhere near as developed nor powerful as other countries, and we are WAAAYY more patriotic than US or UK. You just don't know because when we're patriotic we're speaking bengali. You think US and UK are patriotic because they speak English and their patriotic messages don't get lost in translation like ours do.

[@pyrofut7105]

I think there is not just one answer like you commented. To start, whether people feel connected to their country has to do with the history. Some countries only recently erupted out of different nations. These nations will keep feeling connected to their region more, rather than the new country. A factor that helps keeping a country divided is language. Another one is economic division or wealth. When the situation is equal throughout the country (all people speak the same primary language, the economy flourishes, there is hardly any economic division), people from one region will not need to see the rest of their country as "them" but rather as "one of us"

[@zhutwo]

A healthy dose of national shame can do wonders in humbling a national ego.

[@giwrgosn8413]

@@n25783 the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

[@souvikdeb2523]

Loved this video. I sort of had a similar theory in my mind but this video encapsulated the ideas wonderfully!

[@sohambanerjee99]

Neither is ultra Nationalism good nor is Elon Musk !

[@pietroercolano7130]

I do not agree with the identification of nationalism (0.44 - 0,48) with totalitarianism and genocide: nazism and communism were ideologies based on race and class, both rather different ideas from that of nation, which had existed before and continued to exist after their demise. You can still be an Aryan without being german, while, tragically, many jews who felt to culturally belong and had fought in the German army during WWI were later perceived as 'biologically' different.

[@samrezvani3299]

Nazism was Nationalist since there idea of a nation was different to other countries, Nazis believed that a nation is a racial community (volksgemeinschaft), this view was completely different to the nationalist movements everywhere else. for example in fascist Italy if you where a Jewish Italian you could join the fascist party, there were also Libyan Fascists too, because for them the nation was any community with a common ideal and myth.

[@lucas4177]

For that women I guess that she also has to leave america since they all speak English wrong

[@max05003]

I agree with everything this video says 'xcept one. It is implied that diversification in race, religion or culture is enough to avoid nationalism. The question is, is there any way to fight against it ?

[@zackariyafarah7630]

There is! But it depends....

[@paulaharrisbaca4851]

I watched as a whole huge mass of shoppers, me included, at the Tanforan Park Mall, around a stereo and music shop was showing off their big screen TV by playing Rocky IV. I can't believe only men watched Rocky IV. Men do like to fight to protect their women.

[@laurisolups6563]

I think the issue is identifying not with values, but with names. Step one - we associate good qualities with nationality X (ours, obviously), and inferior qualities with nationality Y. Then we proceed to get emotional highs of validation whenever our nationality is praised, or some other is denigrated. But, if we skip that arbitrary step and solely identify with values (like kindness, wisdom, strength, compassion), we can't go wrong.

[@_ata_3]

And how values match nationalities? Do you think kindness is exclusive to one nationality only?

[@giwrgosn8413]

Greece preserved its cities that were also states, so they had control, on the contrary, empires needed a model for the world to believe

[@nickbrowning3270]

Max Fisher- born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Russian Jewish immigrant parents and grew up in Salem, Ohio. :^D

[@correctionguy7632]

Imagine my shock

[@flaviaocopeiro]

so?

[@vietmypham9019]

Anyone know the name of a painting at 02:31 ? I like it :))

[@wilberthidalgo_3176]

Liberty leading the people , by Delacroix

[@samshane9135]

This sound like a high school essay. Oversimplified points and the lack of evidence.

[@cuhrt1248]

Why you gotta dog on everything man just let me love my country in peace.

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

Ikr.The national identity came before the nation . This video is nonsense. Explain why so many Irish died in the 16th-20th centuries for a nation which did not yet exist

[@ladycatfish2896]

#OpenBordersForIsrael

[@johnnyhaigs243]

Max Fisher, are you of Ashkenazi descent?

[@flemishnationalist-prayfor9809]

He indeed looks Jewish...

[@malucinada9757]

Did someone know if it's possible to see this video with french or spanish subtitles please ?

[@eatmyass1074]

Anyone else here because of online class?

[@ALurkingGrue]

I was alive when Rocky IV came out and is also male and to this day have never seen it. (Or the original for that matter)

[@nantzstein3311]

*Isntreal*

[@yoavyoav9722]

why are there so many comments about jews and Israel? there wasn't a single word said about either of them. these are just pure hate comments.

[@flemishnationalist-prayfor9809]

The journalist is Jewish.

[@ozgeuslu2003]

Where can I find the mentioned study concerning American's attitudes towards movies?

[@Tonixxy]

Then Black, Asian, Jewiah identity also do ot exist. But guess what, even the Jews and Egyptians and Mongols and Greeks from thousands of years ago had pretty defined self identity.

[@brainxtc2171]

Tonixxy yes. They don’t exist.

[@TheKGiannis]

Well in Greece even in the 5th- 4th there were cries for unification of all Greeks. So I guess in my country national identity isn't something new.

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

This video is nonsense dont worry about it

[@blackcitroenlove]

It's a primitive concept best left back then. A cosmopolitan attitude, being a citizen of the world, is better.

[@emilianomerkaj9059]

It´s funny seeing comments like this because if you could just time travel in the 5th - 4th century the people that populated greece wouldn´t even understand your language

[@vagp928]

@@emilianomerkaj9059 Actually no...... Ancient Greek had many dialects but the most widely used the Attic dialect which is later used with micro adjustments as Koine Greek or Biblical Greek so yes a somewhat trained Greek would be able to hold a conversation with an ancient Greek

[@giwrgosn8413]

@@emilianomerkaj9059 Greek is Greek and the letters are Greek since then until today Albania has the Latin alphabet but believe me it once used Greek

[@jiboyoseo3128]

loved this!

[@TheMasterWizar]

You just made the best case for ethnic Nationalism ever. Thanks guys!

[@deader6]

Also stop being buzzfeed, it wont end well for the NYT

[@miriamdiedrich7524]

>If you don't speak English, and you don't contribute, get out! Nothing actually wrong with this. Nationality is a complex issue, that much is true. It's also true, though, that people in a certain nation have things in common and that nationalism can be a good thing - and by that I mean civic nationalism. Civic nationalism is a great idea, and racism doesn't take away from that. In fact, civic and ethnic nationalism are two different things. Ethnic nationalism isn't a weakness of civic nationalism. Also, SJW "patriotism" to look morally cute isn't all there is to patriotism. What about the French WWII resistance, or European immigration-reducing politics, or post-colonialism Namibians creating wealth for the sake of Namibians?

[@reststop4834]

What is this propaganda

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

Ikr

[@reststop4834]

@@corcaighogormghus4618 My teachers forcing us to use this video as a source for our current assignment. Can you believe it ?

[@corcaighogormghus4618]

@@reststop4834 Really? Whats the assignment on?!?!? What nonsense

[@josephang9927]

Don't identify with strangers as a nation (clans and gangs are the natural state of humans)... except for refugees and immigrants that has nothing to do with you.

[@josephang9927]

Beautiful words, but please be reasonable about this. I understand your point, it it thought in virtually all schools, so please consider mine, at least. There is no way a human mind could love everyone as they love their partner, family, friends, etc. There is no way you could, as a human, even know the name of all 7 billion humans on earth. No way. It is inhumane and unnatural to ask someone to love the world as their own people (globalism), also insane. Therefore, as humans we have to discriminate in a way or another: who we prefer to pass time with? what country we choose to live, die, vote in? Can we really choose that? -- Everyone must be discriminatory to simply be human, because there is no way to love everyone, there is no way to tolerate everyone. There will never be enough welcome immigrants and refugees to ever help a significant portion of people without sacrificing something equally important... you will only move poverty to other place. People do not change mind or values by simply moving some miles from their homes. You are not helping anyone without sacrificing others or their rights, because those people often do not believe in the same human rights and progress of the West. That does not make them "inferior", but also that does not make them suitable or compatible with western lifestyle. They want just to survive, and naturally they move to rich countries for that reason, but that does not mean they will ever agree with western ideas, specially if we say that "integration" is just discrimination, as some people say.

[@QwertySystemNL]

National identity isn't made up. Although you might think for example that The Netherlands and Germany are very similar, and although your genetical, ethnic or social researches may all conclude that they are indeed very similar, there's still a sensible, very real tension that can be felt once one visits either one of these countries and proclaims that "The Germans and The Dutch are the same!". They are not that different on paper, in numbers, on a graph, but a huge part of nationality, often overlooked, is the feelings that are evoked by it in it's carriers.

[@loganhurley5590]

Thomas White I think that's what they're saying, though. There's no reason for that animosity to exist except that the two have been fictionalized into discrete nations.

[@phm0750]

If it’s a feeling of nationality, it isn’t real, because feelings can change within different environments.

[@alexg4711]

i would say that all the greater german people (dutch, austrians, german swiss, southern tyroliens, the germans of now and maybe even the denes) should be united in one country

[@ConstantinKlose-sj4mb]

alexg4711 why not all the humans? I'm german and I don't like other germans more than any other humans

[@alexg4711]

because it is extremly unefficent. first of all you cant just mix people with diffrent cultures, not even regarding ethnicity, without major conflicts. it is easy to unite the german people as they are genetcly and culturly similair. you can make the case for countries like netherlands and danemark to not unite there as they have a somewhat diffrent language. you just have to look at the us. when whites were a supermajority that country was "the dream". a place were you could go and achive what you want, as long as you tried hard enough. now that they are about 55% whites the systems became less efficent as they were made for just whites and have to be altered for many diffrent races, cultures and religions. than you also have the fighting between the groups. the outcomes of groups will never be the same to do genetic and external factors and so there will always be fighting between the groups as every group will think they are being treated unfair (eg: whites get taxed more than blacks, their tax money goes to blacks -> they think that is unfaire, blacks have a lower average iq and therefore earn less money -> they think that is unfaire, these are just examples, there are many problems with groups, not even starting with jews and mexicans) it is just the easier solution to stay with homogenius countries. there is not much reward for too much cost. maybe in 1000 years or even 100 years we can unite the human people effiently. but today is defently not that day and it will just lead to more harm. doesnt really matter what people you like more.

[@socialistsolidarity]

Very well explained. We share the same world! Rather than working together to create a better world for all not just for humans we have decided to create barriers and borders is just that.

[@umairhusain8174]

True what you are saying but this is the process to future. Just like our world started with clans (smaller groups), we coalesce to bigger groups (religions) to national identities now. Soon the earth will be united, but not in our lifetimes though. 🙂

[@sudiptaranjanpatra1876]

Well friends when you become too smart you often tend to make mistakes and those who made this video had terribly failed.

[@auroraorha]

Yeah, India is a failed country for sure.

[@sudiptaranjanpatra1876]

@@auroraorha LOL replying to a 2 year old comment shows you have nothing to do and your intellect which is non existent.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

That has to be some of the most modern-day reductionist framing I've ever heard. National law, values, celebrations, heroes, pain, and victory are real. People came together and made up the game of baseball. That doesn't mean the game or the concept of the game isn't real. National myths also all have starting points in one way or another, so that's another falsehood presented here.

[@classicmovielover2]

the melting pot is a lie

[@xXxSkyViperxXx]

i wonder why they picked france, britain, and india

[@impwendel]

What about Israel?

[@deader6]

Almost there.....Civic nationality doesn't make much sense, nationality based on culture and ethnicity does make sense.

[@-delilahlin-1598]

Let’s go to Mars

[@nikrose5229]

Nationalism and Patriotism is a good thing. I am so tired of Western media trying to tell us we can't feel love or pride for our nation and culture. Just because you are boring and self hating doesn't mean we all have to be.

[@XavierKatzone]

Wow - now there is some real horsesh*t! Well, let's go back to regional warring tribes, then - eh? Shed this veneer of civility? Seems to work so well for Africa and the Middle East, right? This is a prime example of why I'd NEVER PAY for the NYTs!

[@majicaldonut]

Have you ever heard of the Romans?

[@JS-ob5rn]

Open ALL borders in the world now

[@daniely8350]

@@ulviqitliyev1456 Thank you. I'm so sick of this "open borders" nonsense.

[@kailoa1498]

Its about time we accept the reality that we are different. Some how our differences should not be a wall but a bridge.

[@m.s.r.s-9495]

IQ difference should be a wall

[@vikasmehta3420]

you may call nationality a myth but it binds a lot of scattered individuals together towards a common goal and gives them purpose. however we should keep in mind that our humanity does not get lost in keeping up with nationality. long live the humanity.but i am proud of my nationality. anyways why does not newyork times help people commit to sense of humanity i see a lot of twitter hash tag this hash tag that like feminism this ism that ism what about #humanism.

[@technodestination4763]

Just wondering how India fits in any of the definition here?? It has tons of culture,cusinie,caste,colour,creed and yet almost everyone feel proud when some indian achieve something. India has all religions of the world except those shinto, 22 official language and total 772 languages spoken by atleast 0.1 million people. Weird

[@bhanupratap1063]

Civilizational State.

[@HeadhuntexGamer]

Lol

[@boio_]

Bless India, love from Chile 🇨🇱❤🇮🇳

[@alenngk]

You can turn anything to bad. NI is part of the synergy and that is the way the we works.

[@ezequielbuzatto]

You missed the point here

[@luca_luca_-ke5xw]

gibts des a in deitsch

[@aishwaryarawat8337]

*_thanks for good content_*

[@ELGtheMAN]

Chinese is different. It is still a civilisation state.

[@xcoozy976]

youre just saying that because you're Chinese

[@nicholasballard2403]

I really expected him to have something new and insightful to say...

[@sorzin2289]

Isn't a clan just a really large family.

[@giwrgosn8413]

the answer was given by the Greek Isocrates, the ethnic group includes common traditions, common religious and common ancestry, if any of these are absent then you lose balance and there is division

[@guiller2371]

You missing the point of United States not being America as the new world, but a fragment of it. Even when the idea of national Americans started first in United States, the concept spanded to all America. It's not exactly an identity, but an ideal of free nations what United American countries and separated them from the European control. However, it seems many countries had gone back in different proportions to the idea of nationality based on identity rather than ideals. Nationality based on identity is racism, nationality based on ideals is a republic. America is meant to follow principles and ideals instead of racial identity since America is founded from many nations, races and languages.

[@rockrl98]

Nationality is so new, yeah exactly, we lived under imperialism we fought it, we kinda not really won it, and now you wanna return us to that degenerative state of tyranny and terror...What happens to our nation, happens to our people/land, you walk the land and you feel it,... Minorities and migrants, if people feel that way, it's likely that they happened, when they were ruled by third party... Countries are much needed, just like any other, removing everything and turning the world into massive anarchy would be catastrophical, there needs to be order, and borders on many different levels, borders don't mean segregation, just organisation, just imagine not having folders on your computer, with all the files in one directory, productivity would plunge and people would lead meaningless lifes...

[@haydensmith1691]

I've noticed they invoke several images of Napoleon when specifically referencing French national identity. Could someone please enlighten me?

[@DwAboutItManFr]

Clans, religion, language, race, culture, sexuality, social class or family and any and all descriptivez also do not mean anything, our identity is never connected to anything, i am always i and thou are always thou. We should crush these stupid ideas, it MATTERS.

[@alexandervonsolo5172]

A nation has laws, a nation has a culture, a nation has borders, a nation has people whom on some level are apart of that nation, and a nation has one or two languages (usually one) which also bind the people's communication with each other such as in business, private life, & or government. But also to add to this, greater nations, such as America have a foundation based on an idea. Ours is liberty, and justice for all the citizenry the best that any human society can practice it although never perfect. The French Revolution brought the world anarchy, hate, violence, oppression, tyranny, ensalvement, and misery but the American one did none of those things. A nation whom is a free Constitutional Republic, especially the American nation, is the best of them all.

[@EVG_Channel]

Kind of missed the whole point of this video it seems

[@boio_]

​@@kompo1012 It's almost as existing in a certain place with certain fellows across generations develops an identity, say, where are most sports teams developed anyway? It only proves the naturality of caring those you share a history and a tomorrow with

[@dustypaladin6923]

so this national culture and identity isnt formed from people living in a a certain way and a certain place for a long time, passing on their way of life. good to know, mr fisher, i'll tell my friends what you've said. i feel so much smarter now. open borders for isreal, its not really a nation anyway.

[@Sihengli]

This... it's so wrong.

[@KyleNewton-zo1wy]

(FACTS OVA FEELINGS). The NATION Behaves Well if it Treats it's NATURAL RESOURCES az ASSETS which it Must Turn Ova to the Next GENERATION Increased and Not Imparied in Value

[@hitormisshuh]

nationalism basically roots to wanting a better home. this place is your home, and you have come to love your home. you of course, want the best quality for your home that is why you fight for it, and stand up for it. I'm very patriotic/nationalistic because I want my home to be a better place for other people who also live in it. it's simple really. nationalism is love for your country/home. if you don't love your country, then you probably don't think of that place as your home. even if you do, you probably don't like it.

[@renzotata7501]

always complaining but never giving real solution to these problems....

[@loganhurley5590]

Maybe sometimes nuance is a solution. We should all be careful in what we regard as good or bad and see what consequences things have before we give them our approval.

[@lamelame1779]

Educating people is an important start in a solution. It's not just complaining. It's also informing.

[@lamelame1779]

You're a pleb.

[@josephang9927]

If they only educated people about the failures of marxism, this video would be so much different. But that will never happen. 100 million more people have to die to the same bloody ideology for these people actually realize something for some years and then return to college and preach the 15th version of marxism that will hopefully work.

[@AdamNoizer]

Bring back the Ottoman Empire and you fix the middle east nationalism thats currently destroying it.

[@narendrapanse7844]

My dear - The current system of nation states is known as the Westphalian architecture derived from the Peace of Westphalia, 1648. The principles of nation states, sovereignty, balance of power, et al arrived from there (ref. Kissinger). it was a European solution to an European problem. One of the points was to prevent hegemony of any one nation on continental Europe and try and maintain a balance-of-power amongst various states. Since Europe went on the rule most of the world they applied it globally as well. The video above is just ideological propaganda with blatant disregard for history and it's implications.

[@Red-nt3ut]

*Insert meta comment about the people who made this video: being part of a large publication (With vast amounts of resources and professionals) yet display a clear bias and little understanding of Nationalism; a subject many Historians have dedicated years of study only to be condensed and twisted into a quick 5 minute video that misinforms and misleads the viewer about the Nationalism* Thanks New York Times, you don't mind explaining why you keep treating these complex subject matters with little caution? Also, its just about time these videos come with sources.

[@JMBen]

When saying that everyone can be American is untrue because one guy from the back woods is a white nationalist is hardly an argument. It raciest to judge all of a country's society because of a few individuals.

[@recomoto]

2:50 something tells me that this study isn't reproducible :D It is just too simple to be the reality

[@hamletprinceofdenmark5896]

open borders for everyone, that totally wont destroy small ethnic groups and cultures that have existed for tens of thousands of years