How NOT to Arrive at Oshkosh (from RadarContact)

[@aviation_nut]

This guy did less prep for this trip than I do for my flights staying in the pattern.

[@jd1029]

Perfectly said!

[@Windtee]

Bingo!

[@JakubSobczak]

This guy knew less about landing there than me in Europe not even planning to go there

[@kaefermichaify]

I will not justify him, but I noticed on myself now half a year after I got my PPL that I have considerably more routine, but only then its really getting difficult keeping the sharp eye. Not that I would fly to Oshkosh this way. "100 Litres is fine" ;). But it really is demanding that you stay careful after the licence. The book "How and why Pilots die" explains the "danger zone" pretty well.

[@d_kortman]

I’d rather be over-prepared and underworked than under-prepared and overworked.

[@CaffeineGeek]

53A is the guy that gets to the front on the line at McDonalds before deciding what to order. He will ask about every single item on the menu twice. After thinking over his options for several minutes, he orders a Whopper and Chalupa.

[@bigdarbs19]

Yes, then can't find his wallet, and has no cash in it.

[@russellbynum2414]

@@bigdarbs19 Then produces a coupon...for Starbucks....after taking a call on his phone...on speakerphone.

[@Finder245]

@@russellbynum2414 ...then demands to see the manager because they wouldn't take his coupon...

[@mow-it-pros5040]

Leaves a 1 star yelp reveiw, and reports to BBB

[@TheReduxGB]

And get angry when they say it's not burger king

[@MeerkatADV]

"I suggest you go back and get it sir." Ouch.

[@AugustusTitus]

Yeah, but ... he really should have!

[@michaelking42]

This was a funny exchange. ATC kept their cool and as always, helpful when you need help. At least the pilot had read the NOTAM, so he wasn't a complete deer in the headlights....I've been in similar situations before and usually it ends in chuckles from ATC over the air.

[@2011blueman]

No one found that amusing in the tower I guarantee, and if he read the NOTAM he didn't retain a single thing from it because every part of it had to be repeated to him multiple times. I personally think he didn't even know the NOTAM existed.

[@StrokeMahEgo]

It really sounds like he's task saturated and has get-there-itis, didn't brief too well by the sound of it.

[@jimroscovius]

I'm glad I'm not with him.

[@jons3226]

I volunteer at Oshkosh marshalling aircraft to grass parking/camping spots. Yes, there is a set of not-so-common procedures to follow but the vast majority of pilots do a good job even under (at times) stressful circumstances, but even if they don't what we really want is for everyone to be able to attend safely. ATC absolutely does a fantastic job. One thing I can say is that at least the pilot communicated about what help he needed and was willing to follow directions. Bet he never forgets to bring the NOTAM again, at least.

[@mikel6670]

Oh he totally will. A pilot like that has no business being in an airplane .

[@allencowgill5494]

ATC was really nice to this guy. I’m surprised they didn’t give him a phone number to call.

[@cgfacer3022]

I think it’s kind of understood that Osk Kosh is an abnormal ordeal and they want it to be as inviting as possible. As long as he didn’t bust the Delta (which he really wouldn’t have anyway since he was in contact with tower), I don’t know what they’d cite him for. “I have a phone number for you to call cause you’re unprepared and subsequently high maintenance” 😂 the pilot was admittedly overwhelmed, better that than belligerent!

[@rustydomino694]

@@cgfacer3022 i agree no reason for him to be handed a phone number for this situation

[@staymad7206]

a phone number for what? He didnt violate any FAR's , aside from being a moron. You people just throw out that phrase with no bearing

[@ryanmgill]

53A doesn’t owe the tower a phone call… He owes em a round of beers.

[@Brotha00]

I’m glad he survived though I cannot stand him. Lol

[@zachcraftx]

ATC should log PIC for this flight

[@RV6Pilot]

I flew into OSH once. Now I drive in. 53A and others like him are the reason.

[@HugoHugunin]

Dave, I remember your video. The other pilots scared the #@%$ out of me.

[@michelleleeginger5225]

Are you the best pilot in the world?😃

[@GeneralChangFromDanang]

@@michelleleeginger5225 No, that would be Ice Man.

[@michelleleeginger5225]

@@GeneralChangFromDanang Ok,but I don't think so 🤣🤣

[@christophebertaux8989]

It's a taxiway but today it's a runway, i just love this one. You made my day with this recording, thanks 😀

[@sorenlandfall9629]

The one time you can land on a taxiway and not be made fun of :P

[@staceygrahame2504]

@@sorenlandfall9629Yeah bet Harrison Ford wished he’d been at Oshkosh 😂

[@gsp-greenstripepilot9508]

Taking initiative plays a big role in planning. I hope this pilot listens to this and realizes his poor planning caused a ton of frustration

[@IlIlIlIlIlIlIlIl-v9h]

53A is the kind of guy who gets in the wrong lane to make a left turn and then dives for the turning lane at the last second while blocking other lanes. Then puts their hands in the air when you honk at them.

[@ibgarrett]

My first year flying into Oshkosh a guy flying a large airplane (like a twin or something - I don't recall) called up Oshkosh tower like it was any other day. He not only had no clue Oshkosh was going on, but he didn't even know what it was based on listening to the transmission. I was just stunned because how do you get to that point in your flying career and not have heard of Oshkosh at least a little bit?

[@lookileftpooponyourpage5604]

I have met airline pilots that know nothing about it. It's always surprising to me when aviation folks no nothing about AirVenture! There are people who get into flying simply to run autopilot routes with the airlines, and then learn later that GA is a thing.

[@emilyanne3910]

Or read the Notams!

[@raoulcruz4404]

To many people aviation is not a career or even a hobby. It’s a mode of transportation thats faster than a car. And they drive an airplane just like they do their car.

[@Cameron_the_Robot]

This was great. Oh man what a laugh and love that mix at the end.

[@grantharriman284]

This man knows he messed up, and ATC is bailing him out. He sounds suitably embarrassed.

[@greghunter5627]

That’s a Bud Light blunder.

[@ZeedePlus]

"Is 18R a runway or a taxiway?" Sigh.

[@mikeramsey9747]

Having worked the OSH tower, FISK, and even FLD during the EAA airshow for several years unprepared pilots where always a real problem for us controllers because they often endangered not just themselves but others. This is why I often went offered to talk to pilot groups prior to OSH to help answer questions about the procedures.

[@raffertyflies]

That's exactly why I made this video in the first place! Our flying club has many members that fly into the show each year, so we give a briefing on the arrival procedure before everyone departs. We've had Jim Fuhrman, also a multi-year AirVenture controller veteran, help run the briefing to answer questions and to give us some great advice from the controllers' perspectives. I plan to show them this video each year as an obvious example of what not to do!

[@bbgun061]

@@raffertyflies I'm surprised that the controllers had this much time to talk to him. I suppose it was a slow day... But even a slow day at Airventure can be quite hectic!

[@matthendricks9666]

When I was a young student pilot I literally had nighmares about finding myself in a situation like this. This guy´s nighmares definetly have come true. He was lucky that he was confronted with the nicest and most patient controllers on the planet.

[@epapa737]

They must've just opened if it was 7:55 I think I would've diverted him🤣

[@AV8R_1]

Self inflicted. He deserved the added stress. Eff this guy. This is the type of guy that eventually causes an accident on the arrival and the whole thing gets shut down and everyone else suffers for his stupidity. He should have his license suspended and referred for retraining.

[@RickSaissore1]

It's a push to talk not push to think.

[@goldeneaglejk2678]

So I can't just hop in my Tripacer and show up?😊

[@Slonge92]

Didn’t Jack Roush teach us how to not arrive at Oshkosh?

[@jeffcon1]

Pilot seems like the kind of person who learned if he is annoying enough, people would just let him do what he wants rather than put up with trying to explain how it should be done.

[@alalal8157]

ATC: "Pls just drive or Uber next time...."

[@MalleusSemperVictor]

"I suggest you go back and get it." This made me genuinely laugh.

[@shelbysmith1826]

Oshkosh is where controllers who really love their job try and go. My dream personally and I admire these guys for their understanding. They want everyone to have a positive experience

[@lyingcat9022]

My guy needed some proficiency training in multiple areas of flight and flight planning but… he actually is a Good example of what to do after screwing up in flight: He called and confessed, requested the help he needed. Unsure about airspace regulations he did Not assume, instead called to confirm the correct actions. Was obviously not confident in his navigation instructions so he doubled checked (multiple times haha) with ATC he wasn’t going to navigate somewhere unsafe. He mitigated the dangers by utilizing ATC and completed the flight safely and without any pilot deviations. I’ll take this guy over a more proficient pilot that is over confident and does his own thing instead of humbly requesting assistance from ATC.

[@OptimusSubPr1me]

These air traffic controllers are freaking saints. Just pure class and professionalism. Yes, this guy was an idiot for not preparing, but they treated him with respect all the same to not make the situation worse.

[@staymad7206]

pretty sure this is a recording of harrison ford in his early flying days

[@intothevoid10]

I was waiting for him to say he didn’t have a pencil and paper

[@n1msu]

And this is a really well edited and funny video by the way! You should make more of them, I'm going to subscribe in anticipation!

[@chrisnielsen9885]

pretty sure this is VERY old. I think I had this audio recording about 15 years ago

[@raffertyflies]

Yep, I can't determine an exact date for it but it's from no later than 2006 based on what I've found.

[@johnsrabe]

I know the rest of you guys are pilots, and I’m not, but I admire ATC for being so calm and helpful and I admire the pilot for not being prideful. Yes he should have prepped, but he didn’t, but then he seems to have done the right thing instead of freaking out. If he does it again, that’s another story.

[@TheRammstein16]

The pilot has nothing to be prideful about. When ATC told him he should go back and get it, he should have turned around and gone home. Don’t need any more bozos flying around with no clue how to use their own avionics or follow simple instructions. The pilot thinks he can make up for his lack of planning by putting the burden on ATC to hold his hand through published procedures? That’s a serious “below” in headwork.

[@johnsrabe]

@@TheRammstein16 Maybe they heard what I heard, that this guy shouldn’t be flying at all, and they figured their job was to get him down safely. He was already a bozo, already flying, and already at their airport. Sending him back was asking for a crash someplace.

[@highlander147]

I’m from New Zealand, an aviation buff but not a pilot and even I know enough about Oshkosh to know it’s one of those times to bring your A Game…

[@valerierodger]

Kudos to the patience and professionalism of the ATCs here

[@epapa737]

I thought the first 2 mins was the end of the ordeal, than I saw the time stamps 😭 oh god

[@POOK-E]

JE-SUS-CHRIST. That was so painful. It just kept getting worse…and worse.

[@cowboy6591]

Note to selfs "If your parents met each other, fell in love with each other and married each other at a family reunion maybe you shouldn't be a pilot!!""

[@smartysmarty1714]

Having personally flown into Oshkosh, I can tell you that at peak times the pressure is intense. I did it years ago, and at my age I don't think I'd even want to do it again. The controllers selected are the best of the best, but they can be very military and unforgiving at times. This guy got the "nice" treatment, but I've heard ATC recordings where thing were much less casual. Personally, I'd recommend landing at a nearby airport and renting a car to attend the event. This of course requires some long time pre-planning but it comes with benefits. And as a side note, the last time I was up there was probably about 15 years ago, and a bottle of water was around $3.00. I can't imagine what they're charging now. The place is very, very expensive...

[@arthurbrumagem3844]

Imo flying into OSh is awesome and is why many of us love aviation. As to expensive food, you are correct. Water is still 3.00 as of last year but the food there totally sucks and is expensive. Got a hot dog and fries for 12 bucks. Would have been ok but they were both cold and I’m not exaggerating. Would have taken them back but the line was too long . And better stuff in the jungles of Vietnam 55 yrs ago and I’m serious

[@Deep_Axion]

@@arthurbrumagem3844 I used to work for the caterer as a teenager. The food is just pre-cooked & packaged junk food. Away from EAA it’s a very inexpensive part of the country. You can can buy a case of waters for less than a bottle at EAA. I don’t remember any rules preventing carry-in. Target is across the street from EAA. In my opinion, staying at the airfield is fine, but you’ll probably enjoy your vacation more if you stay somewhere else. Plenty of great food to eat if you know where to look.

[@arthurbrumagem3844]

@@Deep_Axion been there many times and agree with all you have said. I carry a water bottle and just fill it from the numerous fountains on the field. Plenty of off site restaurants for those of us with vehicles. The poor slobs camping under their wings get crap as they don’t have the options, hence why I never fly in and camp. The place is fun but hardly cheap. But go to Sturgis motorcycle rally and you will get sticker shock as well.

[@rickkennerly2379]

Controllers are one of the best things about Oshkosh. Cool, professional, flappable, focused on getting everybody down, and best of all, they don’t hold grudges or punish the incompetent.

[@theflyinglife1]

I shall reserve judgement for fear that one day.... hopefully far, far in the future.... I might just be 53A I understand his pain though.

[@ahmadsamadzai8255]

Nah I doubt you'd be this clueless even though I don't know you.😄

[@herkloader34]

I can assure you that you'll do just fine after watching the bozo in this video. It's really not difficult to fly the arrival as long as you review and brief it a few times. It's actually pretty cool and fun to do. Go for it!

[@areza15143]

⁠Derek, charitable attitude but I don’t think you’d be like 53A’s owner (at the time). I know him, I’ve taken flight instruction from him, I have used 53A myself. He is an excellent pilot, ATP rated flight instructor but he’s arrogant and self-centered. There is no way in hell anyone goes to Oshkosh without having multiple copies of that 32 page NOTAM, having briefed it, and hopefully having a safety pilot to refer to it while flying in. I won’t mention his name but this is all him and it’s unacceptable. They should’ve turned him around and not let him in.

[@glynnetolar4423]

Unless you're an attorney or some other 'special' person. You're unlikely to forget that.

[@ahmadsamadzai8255]

@@areza15143 Wow. That's just insane. You'd expect better from an ATP guy.

[@accola5935]

"is 18r a runway or a taxiway" My soul would leave my body

[@weeveferrelaine6973]

I mean, 18L was a taxiway, so he probably only saw one runway when two were mentioned, and had to ask

[@2011blueman]

@@weeveferrelaine6973 Which is why the ATC should have been more forceful about telling the guy to go home and get his NOTAM (and his shine box).

[@n108bg]

They save that one for whatever Harrison Ford is flying.

[@herkloader34]

​@@n108bg😂😂😂

[@rodcappon6249]

When I was a kid of 13 a relative of mine took me to the air show with his family. I remember when the airshow was over things started to get very very busy on the runways. The had a guy standing on the end of each runways waving the next plane too takeoff the second the plane in front took off. A plane took off from each runway every 15 seconds or so and this went on for hours. All day before the air show they had planes flying if formations. Fighter, Bomber, Ultralites, 2 prop, single prop, pretty well any way you could classify a plane. I have always wanted to go back there. Just never got the chance.

[@Mr39Miles]

Hooooly smokes that last 15 seconds did me in. 😂😂😂

[@herkloader34]

Thank God they told him to land on 18L instead of a colored dot on 18R. That would've been catastrophic.

[@C-man553]

I've been in a similar situation flying into Frederick, md airport. Suddenly I was hit with overwhelming exhaustion...and panicked. I switched all energies to containing my anxiety and flew north to Gettysburg airport, but no joy- I couldn't find their micro strip. It is difficult to convey the horror of this situation . I was able to maintain altitude and airspeed, but the cockpit was closing in on me. I wanted to be anywhere but in that plane. I seriously thought about jumping out at one point, at 3000' AGL. Fortunately, a 270 heading and 15 more min put me over our 1800ft rolling strip in Chambersburg, pa. You must hit the threshold at 60mph and pull her into the flair immediately. Fortunately, this runway has more forgiving grass and I had landed there a 100 times, so I was alive and home. But I don't understand why I recovered so quickly upon seeing home. I had been flying for an hour in threadbare control of a terrifying anxiety attack. Was God my copilot? ----------------------------------------------------------------- [The runway [at Lost Acres airport] - right in the middle of corn a field - is incredible, a novice pilot killer. Troughs and peaks that will launch you without carefully applied forward yoke pressure. Too much results in braking power loss - on grass, hopefully dry.] So that's the flying story of my life. On to flying a P-51. I think a Quantum leap in ones stick and rudder skill set is required. [

[@Biglulu]

People with medical conditions should not be allowed to fly. Stop before you unalive yourself.

[@JohnyComeLately]

I can not imagine having to give this guy directions anywhere. Nicely done to the professionals!

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

Oshkosh is that place that takes a mix of experienced & some absolutely new pilots and expects them all to have carrier or airshow level airmanship skills... albeit, it is rather forgiving when they fail...

[@gonegolfn07]

this is the guy that you go golfing with and doesn't have any tee's or golf balls.

[@CuratedPile]

I'm in the middle of overpreparing for my first trip to Oshkosh. I cannot imagine trying it with this total lack of preparation. So painful.

[@ascarneyNJ]

What a beautiful world it would be if everyone had a plan! Thanks for doing your part! I hope you did your first osh arrival and I'm sure, if you did, it went smoothly and you had a great time. Welcome to Oshkosh!

[@CuratedPile]

@@ascarneyNJ yes, my first arrival went well enough. To be honest I found the hardest part of the arrival was the tower's non stop "encouragement". I had it under control and the extra inputs in my head were distracting from the most important thing - land the plane.

[@oterosocram25]

Got to say, irresponsible to do so, but what an amazing exchange between them and everyone was calm. In the end, Tower is to serve the pilot in the air and alleviate the stress and make sure he is safe.

[@areafifty]

'You better go back and get it' 😂😂

[@flyjarrett]

He’s a menace to himself and everything else in the air…….yes, birds too.

[@OptimusSubPr1me]

That's impossible, he's on instruments!

[@staintedcards]

how the hell did he become a piolt

[@ImHungryMK]

He is the rain man..

[@blink882]

This guy got so lucky that the controllers helped him out so much. Imagine rocking up to JFK with that preparation. Imagine the stress in the cockpit when the guy realised he went way out of his depth. Hopefully lesson learned

[@PumpUptheJam81]

Hey Kids, if you are watching, this is what it looks like when you don’t do your homework before class.

[@insider33]

This is amazing.

[@CaptainReverendo]

Um ahhh ya umm just save the pdf and the procedure on your iPad.

[@ApexUnderground-rq2ne]

That ending 🤣🤣🤣

[@CATiiib]

mother of god, my brain hurts now.

[@DrzewieckiDesign]

The ATC was amazing keeping in mind this level of preparation. I envy 53A 🤣

[@David..]

This guy is a vibe.

[@dandydenni1615]

My vote is that for all these nimrods that don’t have the NOTAM or are ignorant… send them to Sheboyagan and print the NOTAM and commit it to memory before flying in. Anything less is unsafe and disrespecting to the controllers and everyone else flying in.

[@meoka2368]

He didn't crash. That's a thing that went well. Everything else, though...

[@redfire122]

Seriously, equal blame goes on the controller for endangering everybody else. Only thing he did right was tell the guy to go back home and get the notam. Should have been end of sentence. Allowing him to proceed inbound was a mistake.

[@Breznak]

I can totally see myself in 53A (not pilot though). I'm glad everyone was polite and had so much patience.

[@jimbob100-d3l]

Then you should never be a pilot.

[@ryanjordan1083]

"I see myself in this person who we only know to not even attempt to prepare for a serious situation or have common sense." Thats umm...not good.

[@Tyleraviator99]

this pilot here did less prep than I do for the same route I am doing for a 100th time

[@smudent2010]

Sometimes you just gotta shame someone into being better. Prep and planning is key

[@capnestorortega1834]

Its for reason like these, that accidents happen, not to mention that they put the air operation that others are conducting at risk, on the other hand they should fine him and demand that he carry out retrainig, because clearly he did not know what he was doing, not even carry out a simple communication professionally

[@PowerlabsDiesel]

I’m glad they were patient with him and he didn’t get frustrated and pile it up.

[@timmartin6410]

Kinda of wonder who help this guy get dressed before he departed for Oshkosh...he was unprepared, couldn't follow direction, kept asking question already answered...as saying goes, "Life's hard, it's even harder when you're stupid."

[@danielmartinsson899]

That's what stress does. The guy probably thought he had all the papers but when he realized that he didn't the stress levels went up. At that time you get a shorter attention span and it become much harder to plan ahead.

[@bueno2001]

no preparation at all it seems.. I wouldn't have given him the info and would send him straight back where he came from !

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

"is 18R a runway or a taxiway?" - that one threw me. Having never had a chance to fly to KOSH myself: the chart lists only 18. do they repurpose a taxiway for smaller aircraft to gain 18R and 18L? EDIT: ah, hit submit too soon. so 18 becomes 18R and they indeed convert a taxiway to 18L.

[@jons3226]

You got it, runway 18/36 becomes 18R/36L and taxiway Alpha becomes runway 18L/36R. It's a very unusual set up which is why having the NOTAM is so important.

[@michaelhoffmann2891]

@@jons3226 Not that there is *ever* a real excuse not to use a NOTAM, anywhere.

[@susanhenning6582]

I honestly can't believe the feds weren't standing by to say hi when he finally stopped.

[@nolanturek3295]

military helicopter pilot 100% confirmed

[@SeanPGribbons]

Guy probably flys A380’s for a day job

[@kenclark9888]

This guy is a hazard

[@mynickels]

There is hope that I can fly in there.

[@ahmadsamadzai8255]

This was so awful to listen to. Of all places to go unprepared and asking a million questions.

[@CAPEjkg]

That's why I don't fly into oshkosh, because of pilots like that. It's busy enough to worry about getting smashed by another plane.

[@SeanPat1001]

It’s been a long time since I heard a tower telling a pilot to rock his wings.😂

[@arthurbrumagem3844]

Hearing them say “ rock your wings “ is the best intro to OSh ever.

[@codingvio7383]

Did he even look at a sectional for this flight? He didnt know what the hell he was doing.

[@markjohnson9157]

That has to be the nicest collection of controllers on the planet. With all they had going on that day they still took the time to hold his hand.

[@publicmail2]

It's also a good way to get killed with potentially high traffic.

[@Jacktherookie_]

So hilarious 😂😂😂 This vid def make me sub to your channel!

[@OzzyInSpace]

"I can give you some information to write down" - That will also likely consist of a number to call after...lol

[@JoeRantCT]

I just can't. Listened to about 60 seconds. That's enough. So painful.

[@jammy2405]

This is the most painful thing I have watched in a while. As currently being a PPL in training in the uk i know how much planning needs to go into flights especially when navigation is involved and new airfields

[@DirtRoadLanding]

Must have been a slow time for OshKosh ATC

[@2011blueman]

Hearing things like this makes me think that Oshkosh AirVenture should be treated a lot like airports that require special training in order to land there, e.g. Courchevel in the French Alps or Aspen for commercial pilots.

[@ghostrider-be9ek]

i agree - but key word is 'commercial pilots', not PPL, which most probably are. OSH would have to start fining people like this, which they are unable to do.

[@glynnetolar4423]

Training video they must watch before flying in. That might help.

[@erauprcwa]

5:25 My dude, do you understand? DAMN!

[@jaytc3218]

Wow. Just ...wow. Did this guy even attempt to prepare at all? If I was going to OshKosh, my OCD would be kicking in and I would have everything organized in folder a month before I left the house. I would have gone overboard only to realize later that I didn't need to do it. Obviously nothing serious happened so no phone call required. But come on now, brother. You need to get your act together.

[@bobwilson758]

Correct sir ! Ridiculous Fool - I flew one time with a pilot like this …. Holy shit ! ----

[@billruttan117]

Pilot certainly did pass the “Politeness Checkride”.

[@areza15143]

He had no choice. He was completely unprepared and at the mercy of the controllers. That was his only weapon.

[@thewilberforce]

I saw thIs guy at my local Starbucks. He had about 43 people behind him as he asked the barista about where coffee comes from and if they could make him some poached eggs.

[@Commissar0617]

"possible pilot deviation, gotta number for you to call"

[@screwerh2890]

ATC did so well there... ;)

[@Jdogflan35]

Arc had a lot of patience good for them

[@haroldofiuzajunior7960]

I’d love to see this same situation in JFK’s ATC! 😬😬

[@epapa737]

Throw his ass in the penalty box till there's a big gap 🤣

[@Windtee]

53A, nothin' but cringe. Your edited soundbites in the outro was gold! Hmmm, aaah, uh, Ima, duh...

[@AV8R_1]

Wow. How do you have a reserved parking spot at Oshkosh, and you planned to fly the notice arrival, but then when the tower asks you about "Ripon", you don't even know what "Ripon" is? If you're not even familiar with the existence of the "Ripon" waypoint, that indicates that you have not even looked at the arrival notice let alone studied it exhaustively for the week or two before your planned flight. The guy in the tower should've told him to divert to the nearest airport, find an Internet connection, and download the PDF for the arrival on his phone, read through it once at minimum, and then attempt to make the flight. What a jackass.

[@bobwilson758]

Well put ! Jackass. I like it -