How NOT to make an indie game

[@walkingsophie]

Got it, Prototypes are key

[@LycheeGameLabs]

You're darn tootin

[@doofusloofus8359]

Just keep making prototypes until you realize that prototype is actually just a game.

[@birdmoney]

You bet you're fucking ass

[@TheHadesHP]

I tought it was memory

[@jeccf5072]

2 prototype games are out already. who wants to make another game about Аlex Mercer? unoriginal

[@rasmusvanwerkhoven1962]

Tbh, this was actually really inspiring

[@maxwuup2152]

super inspiring, guess I gotta try and get back in game dev (again)

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Let's all develop!

[@catonmars9852]

@@LycheeGameLabs what did you do to the npcs? did you... MYYYYYURDER THEM!!?

[@catonmars9852]

@@LycheeGameLabs also, will the game be on switch?

[@LycheeGameLabs]

@@catonmars9852 I hope so, someday

[@aaronspain3387]

So basically: "Core game loop needs to be fun, everything else is icing on the cake and comes from iteration". Difficulty in mastering will keep dedicated players coming back for more, and the core mechanics need to be easy to learn to make people stick around for at least one full iteration of the core game loop, so they get the best experience out of it.

[@neozoid7009]

Awesome thanks for this simple explanation 👍

[@SomeName_AlsoHandlesSucc]

Saved me 22 mins thx❤

[@SebaCape55]

Also important to have a unique twist on game loop to ensure your game does not blend with the sea of others

[@johndawson6057]

You saved 22 minutes of my life mate. Think about it... you saved precious time for a stranger all the way across the world. Thank you.

[@henrywong668]

FGO... Arguably the core gameplay is paying for gatcha waifus

[@diliple]

this game is extremely visually appealing

[@piklan89]

@Jayden Britton yes

[@revimfadli4666]

Definitely on par with DS or Wii games, at least

[@eduardoxenofonte4004]

@@revimfadli4666 WAY WAY better than those lol

[@revimfadli4666]

@@eduardoxenofonte4004 yea I won't be surprise if a Switch release is gonna be a hit, with such polish

[@_Fuscous]

Arthur Dungah depends on what kind

[@Tantandev]

Sneezing mechanic, now that is innovative!

[@LycheeGameLabs]

So next gen

[@rehmanarshad1848]

@@LycheeGameLabs Imagine if the character randomly sneezes and shoots a burst of bullets? Is it a blessing is it a curse? I guess we'll never know! :D

[@okamichamploo]

Don't Starve Hamlet had sneezing. It was horribly annoying.

[@MINIMAN10000]

Space station 13 did it first tho. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXzToZVjrtOinLs Mostly coughing but sneezing is a common viral symptom. It makes a virus airborne.

[@jargozle5393]

@@MINIMAN10000 real life did it first

[@bitsoda7824]

"the first year was disheartening" me: you should be happy your character can even move

[@Lumberjack_king]

Yeah

[@elrymoe]

i made a simple 2 game in 30 days of learning, so dont talk like its super hard. Edit: Man this people are pathetic, defending their pride instead of learning...

[@diadantist]

@@elrymoe everyone learns at its own pace, so don't go boasting about how good you are. Great for you, but not for others

[@BobrLovr]

@@elrymoe copying code is not "making" something lol.

[@castroller1358]

@@elrymoe So it seems your brain cells, or lack thereof either consists of a boasting, egotistical personality, or a dense, ignorant, and careless facade to the difficulties of a full fledged indie game developer, or both, because the appealing amounts of audacity, ego-centric, and carelessness you put into that single sentence, should be enough to rid you of even the basic rights of commenting on KZbin.

[@nidgithm]

looking at the footage and seeing how finished the tests look, im thinking maybe using placeholders wouldve saved a lot of time haha

[@sunkenship9552]

that’s actually a really good point

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

Probably, but so much of one's experience with a game is influenced by how it looks that I think depending too much on placeholders could mess the feedback from test gameplays

[@nidgithm]

@@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._ I mean like for when he was testing mechanics on his own (atleast from what was said in the video, I had the idea he only got other people to play a couple of times and usually just tested by himself) and he was purely testing if the mechanics are fun, which the graphics quality doesn't affect

[@rattenwahn]

A lot of people will probably see this video and go off into the wrong direction again. All of his "prototypes" had so much polish in them that they probably took 10 times as long to make than would be needed to test if they're just plain fun. If you can't make something fun without complete graphics, animations and particles it's probably not very fun to begin with. He re-used a lot of his already existing assets (that he created over years) so his "1-month-prototype" looks very polished and would've probably taken 3-6 months to get looking like this from scratch. It would be good for beginners to show some really crude stuff as well.

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

@@nidgithm his own testing would also be influenced by the looks. I'm not saying he should have used no placeholders, but maybe that should be for the base building and other side stuff. The main game is reliant on exploration, which is a very visually-heavy mechanic - new areas wouldn't be attractive if it weren't for the design differences, and he was also making collectables. Plus the ailment-inducers and healers had to be visually different in order to function, too, so he'd already have to design them well anyways - if he had trouble explaining the mechanics as it was, imagine if the design weren't so intuitive. The newest version especially depends in the monsters' designs. He ended up reusing a good chunk of animations and effects so they weren't a waste of time but I think they'd be a better point to put on hold (along with tbe sidelines things) until a little later than the basic looks themselves.

[@teneesh3376]

Marketting is a really underatted process if a game's success. You have to make sure people know your game somehow. This video is a very creative way to market a game. Showing how awful the creation process was. But goddamn it works. Now I want to play your game

[@fornax985]

Same lol

[@iamrolly411]

Hope you still do😄

[@JessiTheBestiGaming]

KZbinrs. GrayStillPlays is a good one

[@jeanhamilton3296]

Agreed, I've seen a lot a promising game completely fail in the week following their release because no one knew they existed. Sometimes it was even quicker than a week.

[@maldivirdragonwitch]

Around the 15-minute mark I realized I was bamboozled into watching a long commercial for his game. :D But I also learned a lot!

[@Rikaisan]

"The only way to write good code is to write bad code first" I think this applies to everything: Playing games, writing, designing, making a game, making a movie, a sport, anything. I really enjoyed this video and your journey, thank you for sharing it with us!

[@krdjmtc]

Someone recently told me: "You have to suck before you get good."

[@Diwasho]

That can be understood in two different ways. 1) Through practice and learning you learn to code and eventually you become so good at it you never write bad code ever again. 2) It doesn't matter how skilled and experienced you are, you always start with bad code and shape it into a good one. Like master sculptors who start with a rough rock and turn it into a magnificent statue it's the same principle for coding, first you just slap together some crappy code to use as your programming base or fundament, then you make it good. I think it's the second principle here, if veteran coders never started with bad code then their games would never need to go through debugging and that's virtually unheard of.

[@acoupleofgsanrandaneaniandann]

Producing children.

[@Formula_Zero_EX]

@@acoupleofgsanrandaneaniandann What?

[@rainingtacos7529]

Now if only I knew how to make code period.

[@CodeMonkeyUnity]

Awesome video! Game Development is definitely very tricky and everyone has their own journey, that final version looks great! And all the time you spent iterating on all those ideas was definitely not lost! All of that experience gave you a ton of knowledge on what works and what doesn't. It will greatly benefit you for many years and many games to come. Btw the Steam link in the description is broken, it just goes to the Steam homepage.

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Thanks! :D I've also fixed that link now

[@starrynight3945]

@@LycheeGameLabs I see chinese's word of die or probably japanese? Haha probably u can add more of them so u can localize to their market.

[@cyberevil101]

@@starrynight3945 what

[@DamageMaximo]

@@starrynight3945 It's a kanji

[@Yotanido]

@@starrynight3945 It is both Chinese and Japanese, actually. They use the same character

[@chrisnewfield4853]

Patch Quest: How not to make an indie game YandereDev: How to not make an indie game

[@rayfirewood]

Wait, I thought YandereDev makes a triple-A game. XD

[@sweetasterium]

@@rayfirewood nah, triple a games don't rely on else if

[@rayfirewood]

@@sweetasterium True.

[@afk_is_ok]

"Game" is a relative term

[@smoreboy2802]

lol XD👌

[@floydjay1361]

“I have not failed, I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work” - Edison

[@damiengates7581]

Iteration is how everything gets made

[@Sir_Isaac_Newton_]

He literally says that at the end, Floyd.

[@TheDetonadoBR]

edison was a charlatan though

[@idontwantahandlethough]

"I have not failed, I just stole the credit for other, better inventor's work!" - Edison

[@floydjay1361]

@@idontwantahandlethough yes

[@Magnymbus]

Your original idea was cool on paper, but seeing it in action made it look like a shitty cashgrab mobile game. But your redesigned product looks truly enjoyable.

[@MissMoonlightStreak]

Exactly what I was thinking myself while watching :)

[@nuulcoolpro]

"Watch an ad to take a shower! (All ailments down!)"

[@jimbrenneman2040]

It is! I have a friend that sent me a link to the beta.

[@eevee8378]

it is.

[@minall6889]

Just wanted to say a couple of things: 1. Even your "failed" attempts looked great, the talent is there. Just the fact that you managed to understand its flaws and somehow salvage parts of it speaks of how good a developer you are. 2. Found out about Patch Quest from a reddit post a few months ago, probably before the pandemic. Immediately loved the idea. Will definitely buy it when it comes out. 3. As an aspirant game designer that just decided to pick up coding at the not-so-young age of 34, this video is actually full of good info and very inspiring. Thank you!

[@cantwait2bking544]

“I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” -Thomas Edison is exactly what I thought about when you talked about how those years weren’t wasted but actually helped at 20:22-20:42

[@andrewcleary9952]

Thomas Edison stole most of his inventions from his uncompensated employees.

[@cantwait2bking544]

@@andrewcleary9952 I did not know that. Thx for the fact-check.

[@Seiku]

Careful with historical revisionism

[@liitutereuiui4687]

At least the quote is good

[@emilioolated6821]

@@liitutereuiui4687 yes? But man, poor Tesla, he was just a good man. And now is Almost just a funny meme about a man that his ideas was stolen

[@TheREALBOJACK]

Ah, it seems you fell for one of the classic blunders: Finishing assets before making sure the game is fun to play even with crappy, stand-in assets. Don't get me wrong, they looked awesome! And everybody wants to turn what they see in their heads into reality as soon as possible, and that's 90% visuals, MAYBE 10% gameplay, but a game with MS paint assets that is extremely polished gameplay-wise will always beat a beautiful, boring game. Really glad you got it all on track, though! Will definitely be keeping an eye out for this one. Best of luck!

[@typehere6689]

This makes me wonder if I should go make an asset flip game BUT make it fun to play AND use it to spread the word about the people who made said assets...

[@greenberrygk]

Thanks for the advice! I will halt my asset creation as soon as possible.

[@gapsule2326]

Nah he could legit sell this game as is. Biggest mistake was they didnt get playtesters. Maybe some people like this style of game. It seemed like a really unique puzzle game.

[@Nicolas-L-F]

dwarf fortress and early versions of factorio basically

[@emackenzie]

In the end, it's all about balancing your abilities, your motivation, and your expectations. Some people need to see their game with more polished assets to get a better view of the end goal and keep themselves going

[@Githian]

Just wanted to say a couple of things: 1. Even your "failed" attempts looked great, the talent is there. Just the fact that you managed to understand its flaws and somehow salvage parts of it speaks of how good a developer you are. 2. Found out about Patch Quest from a reddit post a few months ago, probably before the pandemic. Immediately loved the idea. Will definitely buy it when it comes out. 3. As an aspirant game designer that just decided to pick up coding at the not-so-young age of 34, this video is actually full of good info and very inspiring. Thank you!

[@Felishamois]

Where do you start when you have diddly squat knowledge of code, are really intimidated by it (as a musician I understand my own feelings of intimidation at least I guess), and would like to get into sunday game developing one day?

[@BryanGC]

Same here: 31 yo, Paramedic, and moved to Canada just to pursue a career in the videogame industry. A big and hard step but looking at this kind of video is true motivation. Sometimes it's extremely overwhelming not just because of how hard it can be coding by itself but also because of my particular situation and other things, but hey! The biggest rewards come from the hardest difficulties.

[@mikevanleeuwen4912]

@@Felishamois if you want to read a book C# yellow book, if you wanna watch a video i would suggest CSdojo or if you wanna skip basics and dive into game dev brackeys.

[@berndwarnders9251]

@@Felishamois concentrate on responsive soundscape design, if you want to enter the field with your background. A good sound design is often lacking in de indie games.

[@justincenter4061]

Its been a year. How is your game dev quest going? I am asking because I was one of million people who "decided to build an indy dev stutio" with friends in my 20s. You can guess how that turned out. Anyway, I got back into game dev at 36 and am looking forward to hearing from others who started (or started again) as internet old-folks.

[@mexicanjojo6369]

So I take this as a "draw the eye before the eyebrow" type of mistake, except the eye is the concept and the eyebrow is the structure of the game and you drew a very nice eyebrow but oh god it's on his forehead

[@RUPY-et2zn]

Mexican JoJo HAHAHA

[@daadaa6356]

hahahahaha love that analogy

[@Mika-xg6ie]

xD nice one

[@toowiggly]

I actually don't thinl drawinh the eyebrow before the eye is too bad. The eyebrow sits just above the eye socket and connects to the nose, which helps with defining the skeletal structure of the face. It also aligns with the top of the ear, which helps with the positioning of features. I think a more accurate analogy would be to draw the head before the eye since the eye's position is informed by the head. Another way to look at it is to draw the eyebrow and eye in tandem with one another and to only draw details once you've vaguely defined both. This works with games in the fact that you should make the gameplay and aesthetics in tandam and only finalise and add details once they have both been developped sufficiently.

[@mexicanjojo6369]

@@toowiggly Try and do that man, maybe for you is a better method, but for us mortals is like building the ceiling before the walls

[@varovega3269]

I really love how you step back and were brave enough to critizice your own work in that way. If I realized my game isnt good after three years of work, I would just publish it as it is and cry for the rest of my life. Great and trully inspiring video.

[@ptkstefano]

To be frank, i lowkey loved the idea of being an explorer on a strange and dangerous land having to figure out the way through dangerous terrain. It seems like that idea disappeared on the later development.

[@RonenGoldstein]

ditto! I liked the turn based slower paced game in the beginning

[@WorthlessWinner]

I hope someone else makes a game based on that idea lol

[@theuncalledfor]

Honestly I feel like he just didn't really like his own idea and that's why it never worked, until he sort of realized that he didn't like it and changed the game to be something else. He only "sort of" realized it because he ascribed the change to something else... The more he tried to "fix" the original idea, the less fun it looked to me, because that's just it: He tried to fix what wasn't broken. The "combat system" that wasn't actually combat looked really dumb. The blocks that filled up with status effects until he died seemed dumb, too. Status effects should hinder combat or movement or whatever else it is that you're doing, or deal damage over time, or make you more vulnerable to damage from certain sources, etc. Not just straight up kill you. Having separate health and status effects is cool. I also liked the idea of having complex status effects that do different (but related) things depending on how strongly affected you are. Additionally, I don't get what he meant by not having a "core". The core is: Roguelike turn-based exploration game. How is that not a core? All the other things followed logically but he seems to have lost the idea early during development, so he kept trying to fix it.

[@brunorastafa1429]

A problem i see is that he tried to get inspiration on roguelikes when it was clearly a more survival open world idea to begin with, if he had taken inspiration from games like subnautica, terraria, no man sky, etc, i think he could have save the initial idea or made a new idea that didn't betray the core of the first game.

[@handleless986]

@@brunorastafa1429 since the game he wanted was rogue like, if he accidentally created something with to much slow survival gameplay, it makes sense he would change it to be a lot more rogue like. rather than broken, it just wasn't the game he envisioned.

[@ProperDev]

I had been working on my game for 8 years. Until up to last year, I finally caved in and scrapped the whole thing to start all over. The new game is so much cleaner, to the point, and most importantly, more FUN. I really wish I saw your video before starting my project before, but just like you said, the years were not wasted: I learned SO much, and because of that knowledge, the game as it is now was made in half the time it would have been otherwise, leaving me more room for improvements rather than just core programming. Great video, favorite one in a long time!

[@Mika-xg6ie]

You've never wasted a single minute. You just spent a lot of time learning how to improve your game, just like he did.

[@damiengates7581]

8 years... You mean a few minutes a week as a hobbyist with a day job?

[@ProperDev]

@@damiengates7581 Haha, I wish that's all I put into it. Would make me feel better if that was the case. XD

[@HarryVoyager]

I'm starting up on an idea myself, and I've got so much story and dialog bouncing around in my head, I feel like I need to get it out somewhere, but this is all just reinforcing the lesson that, the core gameplay comes first. I'm still writing the ideas down. I'm just not attempting to code or draw or animate any of them, until the blue box moves in a fun way. And I need to be prepared to abandon any idea, no matter how cool it sounded on paper, if it conflicts with the core gameplay.

[@Vutha962]

U have another work that u earn a living from ?

[@Acroliss]

I love stories like this. I’m an aspiring game developer and it always gives me hope to see other indie devs finishing successful passion projects like this.

[@TAPgiles]

Very cool! While watching I was like, "Oh wow--he's putting a lot of effort into the art for those prototype tests huh?" ;P

[@HeyNau]

I really liked the initial idea... until I saw the one about riding the creatures. I love it! I can see a "little bit" of the influence of the other roguelikes that you showed in the video xD #Fighting!

[@matiasherce]

que grande heynau....

[@melanoc3tusii205]

*Roguelites/Roguelike-likes

[@reggiemillar5232]

This took me so long to realize it wasn't an insult

[@ecelord3255]

@@reggiemillar5232 SAME LMAO

[@kariemacmackin5915]

@@melanoc3tusii205 stfu

[@halowaffles]

19:16 "...most games can actually be described this way, as a twist on something that came before..." All of human creation and ingenuity can be described this way

[@zeluqa]

You first iteration on the game isn't that bad honestly, some people do like hardcore puzzle mechanics. I think what actually happened is that along the way you realized you didn't really like that genre and lost your passion to continue the game.

[@nairocamilo]

I think that's the case as well!

[@ThePigeonBrain]

I think he said the levels were randomly generated though, so that would explain why it felt boring. You'd have to customize the levels to make them challenging. In any case, my thought when he explained that his game was boring, was that he should just change the target audience then. Make it a game for kids, it already has the look down.

[@Henrik_Holst]

Yeah I was thinking the whole time that it would be a perfect fit for a mobile puzzle game.

[@r0flcopter]

I disagree. I think the call he made to start over was a very mature decision. Just because there are games that are similar doesn't mean his core gameplay loop was the right base to build off of

[@openSUSE5]

No, the moment I saw that he wanted to mix all those different concepts together in the beginning, I knew it wasn't going to turn out good. It's incredibly impressive he was able to go as far as he did, but it was never going to work. I think he could make an interesting grid-based strategy game, but that's quite different from a rogue-like. Like, you have a grid with a starting point and a goal, and you have to figure out how to get your explorer to the goal while dealing with the obstacles in your way. The key there, is that the strategy has to feel satisfying. Since "roguelike" was one of the main elements he was trying to incorporate, the randomness and the focus on action makes strategic play extremely difficult to achieve.

[@YowzaDraws]

"How NOT to Develop an Indie Game" YandereDev: 👁️👄👁️

[@mcc2795]

YandereDev is sad right now he's finished this game in 3-4 years and yandere dev....

[@aitusai]

lmao 6 years for a demo

[@nottechytutorials]

@@aitusai There were fans who made a more complete game of Yandere Simulator in a fraction of the time. The man is just lazy and greedy at this point.

[@aitusai]

@@nottechytutorials yeah yeah love letter

[@CarolynPuckett]

I was gonna say lmao

[@yupasama81]

This is one of the best game dev videos I've seen. I like that it actually had a lesson. It even helped me think about the game I just started!

[@keyzack]

Your experience just put me up for a "cold" run for my gameplay elements right away (a pen and paper version at least) in order to discover any big issue before it is already done... Thank you very much mr.! Subbed and hope the best for your future projects!

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Great idea!

[@TrainedOldSkool]

The original game had potential to be a different spin-off of patch quest so don't throw it away keep refining it, great vid my man.

[@theuncalledfor]

I don't think he can. He went in exactly the wrong direction at the very start, like he lost his original vision and what made it work.

[@g3ek178]

I don't think you watched the entire video

[@PeachDragon_]

The original game was completely unfun

[@theuncalledfor]

@@PeachDragon_ To you. And to him. It looked fun to me.

[@revimfadli4666]

@@PeachDragon_ pretty sure it was unfun due to poor execution, not the concept itself(which might turn out better if fleshed out)

[@daveknight3012]

The concept of Minimum Viable Product has really helped me when it comes to considering where to go with my projects. The idea is you strip your game down to its absolute most basic systems in order to function and then you consider "is this fun?" "Is this a concept people will have fun playing?" The reality is if you game isnt even fun in it's base form then whatever fun features you add to the game will be on the back of an unfun base

[@cosminilie1602]

I HONESTLY believe this is going to be a “hit” game. Also seems perfect for the switch, but prepare to port it to everything. Congrats, man!

[@tx7300]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKSudoR5mrl1mc0

[@devinbelver7124]

thankfully, unity handles ports to other consoles really well

[@GlimzytheBee]

I was honestly surprised how much i liked the game - it looked like it would be chaos with all the enemies, but the gameplay is actually really fun and challenging + really cute art! I could definitely see it becoming a popular game.

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Thanks :D

[@TheLegoJungle]

I’m amazed at how juicy and professional the graphics looked at every stage. So many little kinks and animations.

[@fishlordusername891]

Ikr, in terms of aesthetic and design this game was ALWAYS strong.

[@nomolosbor]

This is an amazing document, it’s really rare to get a peek at the “failures”, because they are often invisible to the outside but everybody faces this. My past tiny gamedev life winced at these lessons because I had to learn them the hard way, too. Honestly, it’s very clear you learned a lot about the value of animation in conveying state (and giving nice, juicy feedback) within the game along the way. We focus too much on output and not the value of process and iteration sometimes, not just in gamedev but in any design and development context. It looks like a blessing in disguise because the core mechanic of your game looks extremely satisfying and fun to play. Congratulations on the beta release and I wish you all the success!

[@the_jingo]

I mean the 2016 version does sound fun to me it just seem different and sure lot of people don't like trying new thing but I think it could be fun to have overly complicated aliament system and no actual combat it's create challenge in gameplay that most other game don't have thus "different"

[@frosthammer917]

It has certain elements that can definitely be turned into a fun an unique game. A game with lots of alignments to manage and where the goal is to avoid conflict not kill the enemies could be a fun deep strategy game. But it really doesn't seem to fit everything else he had around it. A heavily constricted grid movement with a plant growing system thrown in there most likely isn't going to make for a good tactical strategy game.

[@oceanbytez847]

There was a game pretty similar in concept to this that i got in humble bundle. it was alright except the aging. Couldnt stand my character aging (died in like 30 turns of old age) so quickly. the mechanic was an annoying way to force forward progress and unfortunately, within a few days i deleted the game without a second though. Its easy to lose audience on simple things. I at least tried that random obscure indie game.

[@Holgast]

Right, there are so many roguelites out and turn based survival games are much rarer. Something similar could be quite interesting if done well.

[@illdeletethismusic]

@@frosthammer917 just get rid of the grid and that hideously flat mobile game artstyle and it can be made to work

[@simjans7633]

I read about your "jar" health system on your blog a while back and I immediately fell in love with it. The idea of tracking the amount/variety/effects of damage all in an intuitive way was really appealing to me. I think that if you had played around with your initial prototype, shifting the focus of the game onto managing the damage and maybe having different damage types that cancel each other or grant immunities, you could have found a solid core gameplay loop in what you had. I agree that starting with a tried and true gameplay loop and changing slightly is a almost guaranteed way to find something that works, but I think it limits the kinds of games we have.

[@heskey333]

I liked the jar too, but I'm skeptical that it would have become anything more than an OK game - something you can impress your friends with yes, but that's a long shot from something that can be commercially successful.

[@therealrws2267]

Nobody gonna mention that he uses a light theme is his IDE

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Praise the sun!

[@60secondgaming21]

@@LycheeGameLabs no! May the dark sigil guide your way.

[@jixs4v]

@@LycheeGameLabs light attracts bugs smh

[@pyrogreg8]

There are light themes specifically designed to reduce eye strain. (Solarized Light) Sure they don't look as cool but they help a lot

[@jixs4v]

@@pyrogreg8 solarized dark is even better :)

[@Malfuuu]

I think Einstein said something like this: "If I had to solve a problem in an hour, I'd spend the first 55 min thinking HOW to solve it then the last 5 solving it"

[@ChaosSpectator2020]

the part wherein you already have the art and animation elements on the ready for reference from your first try, makes me giggle as an aspiring digital artist. You didn't fail at all, you made a collection of great assets that you could use in the future, and that's a big win.

[@MrLucky5001]

After hearing that dev story, I'm definitely buying this once it's out.

[@Dragoncraft9]

I’ve got an idea for a game called “Color Me Blue”. It’s a pixelated 2d bullet hell platformer that has the protagonist use paint brushes as weapons, with each color having it’s own different abilities (Orange spits fire, yellow blinds/stuns enemies, etc.) that would benefit the player. Currently I’m working on some of the art to get an idea of what the game and it’s characters should look like.

[@teapasterelix]

Sounds awesome!! We're rootin for ya buddy ✨🙌

[@Roockert]

if you want to make the game and is serious about it, use placeholders and spend less time on the art until you have the mechanics ready and fun to play with. change of mechanics a lot of the time you change what things looks like and then you would have wasted time on art you arent gonna use. concept art is fine, but dont make any final art like in this video until everything else is in place

[@ender7278]

As this video proves, you should work out the gameplay prototype before anything else.

[@sowatome849]

For me it would sound cool as a Boss Battler but Bosses are enviroments as big paintings and you brush stuff on thwm

[@teapasterelix]

If ever you make a demo of it I'd love to be one of those peeps to try the game.👉👈 I think its also cool to add in some special tools such as paint bucket(to make a large splash onto the enemy), pen(more accurate targets), pencil etc. that have unique abilities Then agaaiinnn there has to be a prototype before you get into the rest of the details

[@lukefirst407]

the amount of amazing artwork you did that was never used in the final build is insane. everything looked insanley proffesional

[@anewbeginningquinn]

can i just say your graphic style is fucking insane!! can't believe you made all this by yourself it's so cute and clean

[@youngeggie]

right? I need to know what he used

[@greglyhoblit]

Eh i hate it

[@lux3512]

@@youngeggie He's using vector graphics rather than pixel graphics

[@cbasmadjian]

Was thinking the exact same thing! I am decent at programming, but man I am horrible at graphic design. This person has mad skillz.

[@jaredjones6570]

"Cute and clean" and the f word don't fit to together that well. Just fyi

[@Silencer1337]

The video: half-way through Me: oh god this guy always already has all the graphics and animations finished before even having decided on the game mechanics The video: 10:54 Me: thank god he figured it out

[@zibbazabba905]

That's how I spent the first half the video

[@beepbep4302]

Everyone has their own hurdles and game development and this guy had his. We all can laugh about it but shouldnt make fun.

[@beepbep4302]

Although I will say... excitement probably took over.

[@lazilyymade]

YandereDev: still hasn't figured it out

[@Suekru3]

@@beepbep4302 no one is making fun of him. Art work is something you should save until after you’ve made a fun gameplay. The game I’m making, I am just using some premade assets as place holders. Once I have something that feels fun to play, then I will look into getting real artwork for it.

[@danimunf]

man, i really love the visuals of this game. And as an aspiring game developer myself, i found this video quite handful. This could be a holy book for a game dev, because it really tells the story of how an idea could gone worse then how to overcome it and start over. I love this, +1 sub 🤟

[@TDPEquinox]

Pain is temporary, but glory is forever. So get out that angle grinder and start cutting away what doesn't work.

[@Zichqec]

Ohh I was hoping you'd say angle grinder

[@Kaiwala]

I see the wintergatan fans have started to spread

[@TDPEquinox]

@@Kaiwala We've always been here; just mostly quiet.

[@ussinussinongawd516]

Oh trees i know dirt grows on cats but trees! Thats exciting

[@dragonlord1935]

And be careful with that thing! If you chop off a finger, THAT pain won't be temporary.

[@m1bl4n]

Its so... polished. A pure eyegasm. Meanwhile my 'complete' games are unpolished af.

[@devinbelver7124]

he really nailed the simple yet beautiful art design. I'm way jelly

[@igorthelight]

Guys! Google what "game juice" is. Thank me later ;-)

[@cactusjupiter8533]

@@igorthelight how is a cartridge cleaner supposed to help?

[@igorthelight]

@@cactusjupiter8533 Ha-ha! :-) No! II didn't mean that. I was talking about this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGKZkGikqpmUjLM

[@Nootathotep]

also quite often major companies' complete games

[@CodingSteve]

Kudos to you on completing your game. Even though I'm seeing this video after almost a year, it couldn't have been presented to me a time better than now. It serves as a big motivation for me to keep moving forward in the path of Game Development. It was a good watch!

[@owenneilb]

I feel like so many step into this same trap because they get into making a game not because they want to make a game, but because they want to make "THIS" game (for whatever value of this). Their idea is/was their drive to make the game, so prototyping and finding it isn't fun is difficult to swallow in that case.

[@ViryaDharmawanVGE]

I think that's normal, really. Your drive to make a game will always come from the ideas, and this is true for most creative endeavours. I think the real trap, though, is thinking that your idea wouldn't be fun for anyone because it isn't fun for you. I think Patch Quest's 2016 version of the game is awesome, and I would love to play it, but he finds it not fun and was disheartened. Just because your idea isn't fun for you, doesn't mean that no one would enjoy it. Fun is, after all, subjective.

[@owenneilb]

@@ViryaDharmawanVGE I have no idea how you succeed at building a game that isn't fun for you though. How would you change it, improve it? Even if you could, would you really want to?

[@men_del12]

So basicaly: make it simpler 1st then develops its idea.

[@rtyzxc]

The reason you should make it simple is to make it quickly playable to see if it works, but you still should include as many core mechanics as possible and make sure it works well right from the beginning. If you can't get it to work, it probably isn't fixable, you can't expect it to magically get better later. If you have a mechanic in your mind, it should be in the prototype, you can't just expect to add it sometime in the future and expect it to work. In my honest opinion, many modern games are based on pretty weak foundation that is either very simple, or the ideas just don't work together in any meaningful way but are forced together with bandaids. An overly simple foundation can be a result of a failed foundation had to be dumbed down because it didn't really work. Then the remnants are loaded with tons of irrelevant and disconnected features to keep the player busy, professional graphics and sountrack, and there you have a modern triple A game. To me it becomes pretty quickly apparent what was in the foundation and what is tacked on. Making an actually good foundation is very hard and takes a lot of experimentation. Well planned is half done. Good ideas rarely come out of an expensive assembly line with deadlines. More stuff should belong in the foundation. Inexperienced devs tend to expect too much out of their vision and skimp on a working prototype, maybe even to avoid facing the truth.

[@men_del12]

@@rtyzxc Woah your words are so inspiring. I never thought it that way. You're right, we do need a very strong foundation. Thank you for that. I'll save your comment.

[@jmjanzen]

I'd say even more than that, you should always be able to describe it simply. The phrase "twin-stick action roguelike where you can mount and ride every enemy" describes everything meaningful about Patch Quest, while leaving the details out. But yeah, prototyping seems super important. Makes me feel a little better about never being able to get beyond that first step. :p

[@OfficialDiRT]

I really like the idea of a puzzle game with the patch world and pushing fruits into the monsters to satisfy them and keep safe as the world moves and new patches appear...

[@Paul-hw7kc]

Though I've never completed a game on the level as this guy, I can relate. When I first started in game dev, I had all these awesome ideas. In my head I was thinking my player can do this and that, and even do this when doing that. And they'll have this option, and that option. They'd have endless options. They can do anything. Yet when I created my games they quickly got bogged down with too many options. My play testers my nephew and niece were rather blunt. They got right to the point "This is boring." I quickly realized I had wasted countless time designing features which the player's didn't even take a split second's notice of. Some they never even knew about. For example, in one game I spent like 3 weeks designing this highly complex atmospheric system based off of the amount of trees in the world. It was cool to me. Yet to my players, they didn't even know it existed. It gradually dawned on me it wasn't my ideas. It was how I was implementing my ideas. I realized you can't think fun. You have to experience fun. From then on I made a point that the core of my game would be fun. No longer would I imprison myself to one framework and try to squeeze everything into that one system. Instead I gave myself the freedom to experiment and do whatever seemed most fun in the moment. This all started from this one experience... On one play test I had created just a base terrain and ocean. While wandering around the world, I quickly got bored. So, I went to a really high point and ran and jumped off a high cliff in the ocean. After I had done this, I thought hey that was kinda fun. I wonder if I can jump farther or wouldn't it be cool if there was another ledge farther away and I can see if I can jump on it. From this experience, I developed what I call the fun play test. I have a simple idea. Play around with it and change it up a bit. I then build off that and so on. Fun mechanic leading to fun mechanic. So, I still follow my ideas. But, my ideas are just that ideas they aren't rules. I haven't reached my core yet. I still have lots of mechanics to explore. Yet I know at least when I find my core, I'll have plenty of fun mechanics to choose from.

[@Roockert]

i think what you are referring to is what game designers call follow the fun. there is a whole video about it on a youtube channel called "Game Maker's Toolkit" if you want to know more. its sometimes also said that these kinda games design themselves.

[@Paul-hw7kc]

@@Roockert That's really cool. I didn't know they actually had an official term for it. I agree. The game really designs itself. I tell people I'm making a survival game. They're like cool. What's it about? I always struggle here. Cuz I have a bunch of ideas, but I have no idea which direction its gonna go. I've never surfed, but I think that's a good analogy. I'm just following the wave wherever it leads. Thanks, I'm gonna look into that Follow the Fun concept.

[@kettonger]

Although the video is based around game design, at its core this is an excellent video about project design and workflow! I'd say your journey helped a lot in making a very focused and informative video. Congratulations and I hope the game is a hit!

[@tres-2b299]

"it was hard" His First game: animations, art, mechanics, coding, design, ideas, shaders My game: netflix adaptation

[@Sir_Isaac_Newton_]

My game: (copypasted from Unity tutorial [spoiler alert: doesn't even work])

[@Sir_Isaac_Newton_]

At least I know the Console.WriteLine(); hacks

[@plrc4593]

What does mean netflix adaptation?

[@plrc4593]

@@Sir_Isaac_Newton_ Writing to a console is a powerful programmistic tool, and the best friend of any programmer. The second best friend is stackoverflow :P

[@gdog8170]

@@plrc4593 Netflix adaptations as in their adaptation is terrible of cartoons or the like

[@orionw6161]

Don't worry those first years where not wasted, especially since you showed us all what you learned. Thank you!

[@iKiwed]

Moral of the story, grapple hooks make everything great. Joking aside, since I've failed a lot of projects and remaking new ones, I loved watching this video. My current project is a sort of puzzle game easy to play, and the sandbox is the real challenge. This was inspired by Trackmania and Halo 3, both games that have simplicity and depth at the same time. Thank you for sharing your development. PS: I love your artstyle, even from the other projects.

[@gangstasteve5753]

true. grapple hooks make everything great.

[@gangstasteve5753]

Dude I love the trackmania and halo 3 race tracks i wanna see whatever game you are making

[@mukiex4413]

I feel like a lot of those issues with effects early on could've just been resolved by making maps with far fewer of them to get the player used to the effects happening. Maybe adding an item behind a negative effect (like that brushy dry grass) in the first stage so the player could find out in one run and avoid it on the next.

[@wiilli4471]

And thats why youre a child and not a developer. You have zero concept of how hard/simple things are.

[@PsychOsmosis]

At the first prototype you showed, I was like *"wait, is this that very interesting Monster Taming / Ressource Scanning / Tile Capturing game I've seen Wanderbot play?!"* At 9:40, I'm now sure that it's the same game. Great job on your game, it has really gotten far since the first prototype! I hope it gets released on Switch so I can experience it.

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Yes it's that game

[@MrBlitzpunk]

I've played your game after watching this, and it's great! Played for about 3 hours and am looking forward to play more. It definitely would sell on steam. Man i wish this will be available in mobile that'd be super

[@OxygenOmg]

Hi! I'm a tabletop game designer, and I found this to apply to each and every field of creative art. This video was SO inspiring and well done! Great Job!

[@maddockemerson4603]

5:40 This health system is really cool. I don’t think you mentioned why you seem to have gone back to a simple numeric HP system by the end, but maybe this one would be good for a different genre? Like a survival sim where each effect has a different way to cure it, so Blunt damage goes down over time, Bleeding gets worse over time and you need bandages to cure it, Poison requires an antidote, etc.

[@tomoerlemans010]

I do not aspire to be a game developer, but I do want to be an independent software developer, and your story felt very recognizable. And the fact that you managed to pull true is very inspirational (and also you are a very good story teller). Thank you for sharing.

[@Weltaz]

bravo ! simplifying the way ideas are going to be represented is a key to putting them together.

[@MaxSKYT]

Amazing looking back at how the game went through the years. I myself forgot what the game was like in its humble beginnings.

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Old Patch Quest (2016-2018) Rest in spaghetti never forgetti

[@inuinuinuinuinu]

this a really well told, heartfelt, relatable, and encouraging story. it's also full of USEFUL advice and insightful lessons learned. also your game actually looks amazing (visually and gameplay-wise)! well done, looking forward to more. :)

[@stopdelete8435]

dude just seeing the monsters makes me want to play it

[@zaftnotameni]

this was truly inspiring, thank you for sharing your experience

[@LycheeGameLabs]

No problem

[@mememaster7602]

"There are no mistakes, they are just happy incidents"

[@Brruuuuhhh]

It's better to start over with experience than forcing something that won't work. You have the passion to create a great game. I'm going to buy this when it comes up in steam or something.

[@l0rdfr3nchy7]

Congrats on 1.0 , just bought this 2 days ago . I remember this video and came back to rewatch it ^^'

[@funiwanderer3280]

Okay this realy helped me..showing how programing will be hard...i realy gotta get prepared

[@aminthemar]

3:12 This one needs a dice for the movement. I couldn't imagine "a version of Chutes and Ladders where you can freely land on any block you want" being very fun.

[@DaimonTrilogy]

That is actually a brilliant idea! That would make the game alot more spicy.

[@IxiledOracle]

its actually become my fav game for couple months and just found this clip

[@pixate6969]

"every game needs its own unique twist" *Looks at cod..... FIFA.....* Yep

[@apeculiaruser]

Pokemon...

[@myreneario7216]

As an indie you need a unique twist, because otherwise nobody will ever play your game over the triple A title you´re copying. You need the twist to ensure that you´re not directly competing with anyone.

[@sirlezard670]

@@apeculiaruser The metagame changes in pokémon. All COD is one giant clone.

[@thebattle7000]

@@apeculiaruser Pokemon metagame changed after every generation. In gen 2 you got held items, gen 3 introduced abilities, gen 4 polished things as well as add more really good items like Choice Scarf and Specs, Focus Sash. Gen 5 introduce the Weather Wars. In gen 6 we got Mega Evolutions, gen 7 gave us Z Crystals on top of megas. Gen 8 gave us Dynamax(It's kinda shit compared to Mega Evolutions and even Z Crystals were more balanced)

[@apeculiaruser]

@@sirlezard670 yeah, you're right.

[@bazzel1059]

The animations and the art style was amazing all the way through ngl

[@mela_pela]

the UI is stunning. I'm surprised you didn't talk about that at all. I would love to see the process.

[@ethereal2620]

On any project starting from scratch, develop it knowing you are going to throw it away and start over. Because thats what you will invevitably do, like it or not. And then restart with a clearer ideia and more experience. This is true even if you were already proeficient in the tools and ideas. Dont try to incrementally improve this first version because it is "almost there". Its not. Dump it. On the *second* version onward you may either keep improving it or start over again.

[@jonp3674]

This is awesome Liam, really nice to see your hard work pay off.

[@LycheeGameLabs]

Thanks TJ!

[@TacoCat17]

This video is one of my favorites about game development. I am always so impressed at how much effort you clearly put in for all of the game's graphics, animations, music etc. It is seriously impressive that you did all of this yourself, and I can't wait for the full version to be out on Steam! :D

[@Sgt_Hest]

This is probably one of the best learing videos of them all. I'm at the same stage right now, where I've spend a ton of hours on things, but it just doesnt't feel right. It's not fun, it's not something you want to spend more than 10 min on, so it's time to step back and look at the idears. I love the way you changed your game to the better, I think it's hard to get unique idears and make something that hasn't been done a thousand times already

[@felixp535]

I'd like to add a few more things. Do not be afraid to throw stuff that just doesn't work. It's hard, you've probably spent a lot of time on it. But in the end, if it doesn't work, it just doesn't work. Don't get too attached to one specific idea. Try out lots of crazy stuff. And don't polish too much until you've found something you feel confident with. When you get a bit more experienced, you'll sometimes have to throw stuff that works but that doesn't fit the game. A game needs to be fun, but a good game also needs to be coherent. Adding realistic guns and blood in a Mario game would probably be fun to play, but that's not at all the kind of experience that game is supposed to bring. Always keep in mind what your intention is, and always question everything you do. Don't just ask "Is my game fun?". Ask yourself: - Why isn't it fun? What am I missing? - Why is it fun? How can I keep building on that fun? - Why did I add this feature? What does it bring to the game? Do I really need it? Try to have a fun game with as few mechanics as possible. Then continue iterating on it, exploiting every single aspect of that mechanic. If it makes the game a bit too short, you can try adding a second mechanic that ties in nicely with the first one, and makes you think differently about the game. Keeping low the amount of mechanics in your game will greatly decrease the amount of work, and you'll feel like you're developing a lot faster. Most indie studios just don't have the time or the money to develop large systems and lots of different content. It'll also probably make for better game design, as just cramming lots of different content into a game to make it last longer is generally a sign that your core idea isn't that great on its own.

[@descai10]

"A game needs to be fun, but a good game also needs to be coherent." Yep, a good feature that damages the other features isn't actually a good feature.

[@savakirilov5263]

I never had a problem like this , because my 1st game I had been thinking about for a year before I even learnt to code. The moment you said turn based combat in a rouge like I thought it was going to be hard to pull off. My 1st game was just your average dark metroidvania with 5 levels and 5 bosses with cool designs. You deffinetly had a way more interesting idea , but it was going to be pretty much impossible to make it work. I'm sorry you lost all that time. I am happy nobody else that sees this video will make a mistake like that. My main problem was the fact that I sucked(and still do) at art. I could not make a game on my own , I just couldn't make any sprites. Good thing I learned about an easy way to do pixel art , other wise i would have never made an actual game

[@Nick-Games9]

This hits home man, I had the same thing happen to me. 1 year into my game I realized it was bad and needed to start over from scratch which I did 6 months later. Live and learn, glad its finally going well for you! Congrats =)

[@dmas7749]

i remember the days when i wanted to make a game that had the following: - action platformer with focus on combos during combat - deep RPG Mechanics focused on tactically dispatching your enemies instead of grinding - unique cast of characters, ranging from 5-10 - unique skillset for every character - enemy design with multiple ways to take down each baddie - every NPC is fleshed out - skill system where you spend SP to learn skills (more commonly referred to as perks) - character-driven narrative - gothic horror emphasis -rip off castlevania- - 3-5 difficulty modes - weapon & ability proficiency for every weapon type & ability - open world - talents that can be levelled up, certain characters have modifiers to (cooking, gathering, bartering, etc.) it's a little ambitious to say the least

[@niallrussell7184]

at least you didn't say it was going to be an MMO! 😂

[@dmas7749]

@@niallrussell7184 yeah but i don't have much interest in MMOs

[@kojopiru5911]

@@niallrussell7184 my favourite comment on stack overflow or unity forums etc "I've decided I'm going to make a gigantic MMORPG, sort of like World of warcraft, but I don't know anything about coding, can someone tell me how to do it?

[@CoreyHardt]

Thanks for sharing all this, great video and congrats on your journey. As a fan of turn-based roguelikes, I really like the look of some of the positioning-based ideas you had before starting over!

[@ikjman1]

11:30 "had to start over" - queue the pikmin music! Nice one =)

[@LycheeGameLabs]

It's the 'Forest of Hope' theme

[@asailijhijr]

When you've got a bunch of things that you want to include, you've got as many game ideas as you have list items.

[@Rosemaker_]

Loved it! Thank you for sharing this experience, it really helped me out of my slump

[@MyGanon]

Thank you so much. I'm trying to lose the "fear" to start and stop thinking about past situations, these tips inspire me to do my best and keep improving in the process.

[@unscripted483]

i like this explanation on your journey and i REALLY appreciate the fact that you at least tried to make a unique game rather than the same few genres

[@MarioCola]

You made a very fun game, and that's the most important lesson I think.

[@vsolyomi]

20:07 "If I'd spend just that first year just prototyping" you'd still might scrap it in 3 years completely...

[@AlexisTwoLastNames]

i absolutely love the monster designs. so cute, colorful, creative. the names are amazing, too. skiial? fucking genius. edit: oop. the environmental elements are also so cute!

[@interdimensionalgoober8769]

14:06 Nice use of the streets of rogue ost, super underrated game.

[@juhaniheinonen6132]

Streets of Rogue soundtrack included. :) A man of culture.

[@jixs4v]

was gonna say the same :) one of the best games of all time for me

[@MathAndComputers]

This actually makes me feel better about a game idea I've wanted to start making, but have been afraid to. I've even made a prototype of a sort, and it turned out pretty cool, though I'd probably want to make a more complete prototype to try the other core mechanic.🤔

[@FireNotLord]

I am glad that this video isn't about "Graphics" or "Music" or "Story" but about what to create in general. Good video.

[@diabolicalpotate]

I honestly have no idea why this was suggested to me, but thanks youtube for letting me see a very interesting progress of game development. Your current version does look extremely interesting and your art style is very charming!

[@randomphantom8275]

Its interesting how I started off my gamedev learning journey with a similar idea of a turn-based puzzle roguelike in cocos2D. In the end, I fell into the same trap and abandoned the idea as well. I realized it is way WAY harder to make an engaging turn-based game rather than an action game. Action games are easy to pick up/understand and player skill lies in execution, whereas turn-based games takes away the execution piece and relies more on the gameplay systems to provide interesting choices, and the need to balance complexity with conveyance (which is why original roguelikes still have such a niche audience). Although Patch Quest looks really fantastic and fully realized (congrats!), I do quite like your initial idea, with some tweaks I feel it has lots of potential.

[@DaimonTrilogy]

That is very very well said!

[@NicknameGG_]

wow, cocos2d

[@brine_909]

I'm sure you get alot of complements on the high quality of your game. But I have to say that the quality of your KZbin videos is absolutely amazing for a game developer. Ive watched about a dozen of your videos so far and I gotta say that these videos are higher quality and more entertaining then a lot of multi million subscriber channels, and the fact that you can make such great videos at a semi regular basis while single-handedly developing this amazing game is incredibly impressive and you should be very proud of what you have accomplished

[@LabGecko]

This needs more likes & agreement. Anyone who doesn't agree hasn't a clue how much goes into a project like his, AND video scripting, recording, editing,... so much work