Why 96% of Indie Games Fail

[@GoingIndie]

What's the hardest part of game development? 🟥 Grow your indie studio and support the channel! www.patreon.com/GoingIndie

[@WUGH]

Promotion

[@Spaceman20150]

Making the war planes/star fighters fun to fly Jk it actually is marketing and perseverance

[@Teimberar]

Making the textures

[@DarkBloodbane]

Fitting the game to suit player's likes. That is excluding obvious issues such as personal finance and marketing.

[@MuhammadAlfikri-i1m]

1. Developing the games. 2. Understanding the market climate. 3. Being Solo-Dev. 4. Doesn't have a strong computer. 5. Fighting against laziness.

[@katlicks]

Something I always keep in mind is that Scott Cawthon made 72 games before FNAF, and FNAF was his first big success. It wasn't even the biggest thing he made or was most excited about. But the guy kept going, kept making games, he'd been making games for 18 years at that point and was working at a dollar store when he made it. It was made in response to feedback calling his stuff creepy and animatronic like.

[@lisatroiani6119]

in fact, fnaf was originally going to be his last game

[@LuisSierra42]

@@lisatroiani6119 just the same with Final Fantasy

[@musashi542]

@@lisatroiani6119 jesus

[@fredrickmansav6852]

that christian white work ethic though

[@plaugedoctor6729]

@@fredrickmansav6852 Please explain

[@itsmeruka]

11:43 a recent indie dev that made great marketing was VA Proxy ''you can parry a nuke''

[@chucklesdeclown8819]

I SAW THAT GAME ON IRON PINEAPPLES CHANNEL. that game looks awesome.

[@jabbathehott9321]

Nice, I just Googled it. It looks a lot like NieR Automato, which is good.

[@smb1397]

TLDR: game dev is more like opening a startup than simply making a game

[@sheikhsadab]

Depends a lot on your goal I believe.

[@madaraainna]

​@@sheikhsadabduuuuh

[@johnsimon8457]

You’re building the factory to make the thing rather than the thing itself.

[@jabbathehott9321]

And that's after you've simply made the game, which is a very complex task in itself.

[@dragonsjet2]

yep.

[@luisgentil]

I've heard similar advice coming from several areas of software development. 1 - Find intrinsic motivation in what you do. Don't think you can wear yourself out until you find success, because you're more likely to collapse before that. Development doesn't get easier, there's always new problems. You better like the process of solving them. 2 - Get feedback. It doesn't matter how long or hard you worked on something, it will break on sometime else's hand. The sooner you can get others to test your product the better. 3 - You always get something out of every project you deliver in the form of growth and experience that can't be measured. Don't get attached to your creations and ideas. Many people don't even start because they fear their idea will be stolen and they won't get credit. Think that the real value is in you and not what you create, and always give your best because it's the kind of stuff that the more you give, the more you have.

[@dondahighhh12]

just really good life advice too

[@ngasta1713]

#1 is super useful. I was always to push myself so long that there would be a finish line this moment, until I found out that it is always just an illusion and there is a much more to do just behind the corner.

[@dogsbecute]

My best friend made a cute little flash game in college where he created all the art in MS paint, and made the characters Pixels that he also created in MS Paint, and it was a small platformer with witty commentary (he wasnt a witty dude, hes so chill and down to earth so it was pretty interesting) and he wasnt selling it, but it was pretty popular on campus. I was playing it during lunch and someone asked me what it was and when i told him, he asked for a copy and next thing i knew quite a few people were playing it and coming up to him and telling him how fun it is. He did 0 research, and doesnt create games today (he grew out of that phase sadly...), but i truly believe if he stuck to that and created games that he likes to play, he wouldve created a hit or 2 by now.

[@no2475]

The key is basically to have a combination of good visuals that catch the eye and inspire, have fun and engaging gameplay that has enough complexity and feels polished enough that it doesn't feel like some school project, and of course good marketing. There is a shitload of indie devs that upload small projects with boring visuals and zero marketing, which is why the stats look so daunting. This is probably what you should be doing if you're starting off. Just spam a ton of small projects, and learn form each one. You will, eventually, reach a point where you become skilled enough to create something with quality visuals and gameplay, and back it up with some good marketing. Obviously easier said than done. Oh, and don't neglect the audio and animations.

[@kopfdertoten466]

"Only 4% of games turn a profit" with all of the trash on steam these days, I'm surprised that it's even that high...

[@CrimsonKnight_Gaming]

Valve should do a clean up of games that never hit 10-50 download total in few years lol

[@me-specifically]

yeah whenever i look at my steam recommended its just irrelavant stuff i dont care about

[@devinkipp4344]

​@OccasionallyAPrincess glad someone said it

[@sebas1111_]

​@@CrimsonKnight_GamingWhat a horrible and childish take.

[@CrimsonKnight_Gaming]

@ tell me how is that childish? There are similar practises in social media of how they clean-up stuff. I think there should be some sort of rule of entry or obligation for any new game to reach for it to stay on the platform, like getting a certain amount of downloads or reviews, or perhaps increase the entry cost to 1000. Before when greenlighting existed people could vote games to get into the platform, now there isn’t any actual measures besides the minimal entry cost of 100. How else would you deal with the slop ball games that anyone can create in few hours and put on steam? Instead of calling out other people takes give a better one smart guy.

[@CodeMonkeyUnity]

Really great video! The commercial stats are indeed a bit depressing but being able to build and play something you built yourself is a magical feeling!

[@tNag556]

I've recently been able to test my coop game with some people and just watching other people discover the map you already know by heart, see them trying to solve the puzzles you've done and tested for amillion times and having some laughs with it is priceless.

[@Francisco-Gutierrez]

I read this with CodeMonkey's voice in my head.

[@minze202]

It's easy to see why most indie devs stop after 1 game. I mean, many spend several years on a game and they probably think it's hard to justify another commitment like that with the risk of another failure.

[@anonymeforliberty4387]

and you can't lose twice your saved up money, just once

[@sinkingdutchman7227]

Yeah, we only have a limited time on earth after all... you will ask yourself if making another game that might just as well flop is the best use of that time

[@merccc1]

@@sinkingdutchman7227 That is the mistake. The goal being just a reward rather enjoying the process itself first, like a hobby. If you enjoy it, it is not a waste. You usually then do better work, do it more, and eventually make a hit that takes off thanks to that accumulation of passion enjoying the process of creation and growing talent.

[@sinkingdutchman7227]

@@merccc1 if you want to get far, you cannot treat it like an ordinary hobby though. It's at least as demanding as a second job. And it will consume a large part of your life. It can still be rewarding. But think very hard what kind of investment you are making, and what other things in life will necessarily take their toll.

[@merccc1]

@@sinkingdutchman7227 Of course it is also demanding, but that makes it all the more important that you enjoy the process foremost before anything else. It helps keep you motivated and to push through difficult road blocks and long stretches of work. Not to mention, it is far more likely that your more inspired and optimistic about the game; Thus come up with better, more enjoyable systems than if you were dully just trying to get through the process like it is a chore. This also results in higher potential to make a hit that sales well and makes it worthwhile not just as enjoyment, but as a job. Never underestimate passion, it usually more often than not, gives better results.

[@uheartbeast]

Lots of good advice in this video. I was very surprised to be quoted right at the start.

[@ThomasStewartDev]

This is my favorite video of yours yet! (And not just because you highlighted my game 😅) I’ve fallen in love with the development process of game creation - I hadn’t thought of it in those terms before, but it’s such a good point that the process is more valuable than the singular game I may be working on at the time. Thanks for the awesome video!

[@zejugames5045]

Felt like this video didn't really distinguish between continuous and discontinuous innovation. The Henry Ford quote refers to discontinuous change, like how Apple launched the iPod and iPhone. Along those lines, genre innovation or mashups can see outsized success for a small gamedev team. Continuous change means a much more competitive and incremental market.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

Agreed

[@stevenmaswabi-zz9kt]

"The riches are in the niches" -Alex Hormozi.

[@SimGunther]

Any "richie rich" gonna buy a $5000 new release game? That's just weird...

[@MechanizationStudio]

@@SimGunther that is why companies like gaccha games

[@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120]

@@SimGunther No but niche games usually dont have much competion and can afford to not go on sale because... who is going to replace them?

[@Dashmaster305]

Was it pronounced, "The reeshes are in the niches"?

[@Sound_Tech]

​@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 Factorio has never gone on sale

[@inaridefucc8904]

I feel like this is good advice on paper, but pretty bad advice in practice. You basically pinpoint a roadmap to create a relatively successful average game that will make, in the best realistic outcome, significantly less than an average job in any other fields. In other words, you're saying "just create another gatcha/coc clone". As another person in the comment section put it "if you want to make money, do something else". You're greatly underestimating the sheer importance of creative vision, what you said about the market doesn't actually resonate with the player-base or with the recent history of game titles. "Why do AAA games succeed while indie games fail?" well because they can rely on a much stronger infrastructure both economically and practically, but while that is true in terms of sole numbers, in the last 20 years triple AAA titles ALWAYS LOST in terms of relative cost of production (compared to financial success) against the most liked indie games of the year, most of which come from anonymous, single developers hungry for innovation. From the Binding of Isaac, to Terraria, to Minecraft, to Lethal Company or Among Us, indie titles made by small studios have completely eclipsed huge game developers that, precisely by following marketing trends like you suggest, create corporate slob gaming experiences that people only like so much. If you genuinely believe titles like modern Pokemon games are better than the average fad indie game of the month because they make more money (and they only do because once again they can rely on unsinkable corporate ships, not because they actually create good products) than you're not really in the position to give advice. While yes, I agree that you should research your market and be more pragmatical on your developing process, at the same time you should remember that if you don't have a personal vision that allows for the creation of something new and worthwhile, then you're just better off getting another job.

[@Zack-bl2gg]

You forgot to mention that EVERY single game you mentioned either came out before the golden age of indie games, became successful through flash or some other method, or followed his steps. Or just complete blind luck, among us became popular years after it came out, simply because of covid. Let’s take among us though, and run with it. It’s not that original of an idea, it’s just Mafia and then some steps. It took the genra and put its own twist, and ran with it. It was advertised among kids and party game people during covid, when that was much needed. Aaaand it wasn’t made for years and years and years, it’s a relatively simple game pushed out in a reasonable amount of time. Not all AAA games are soulless, not all indie games are full of creativity. You use all of these tricks to your advantage to find the best of everything.

[@curts7801]

You mentioned 4 that made it, but for those 4 that made it, 96 games crashed and burned. The numbers don’t lie. The odds are not in your favor. You have to rig the odds through business acumen if you want a meaningful chance to win.

[@inaridefucc8904]

@@curts7801 The number is likely even smaller, that's the truth for every business, and it's even worse for creative endevoirs. Still, winning big and losing hard is always much better than breeding mediocrity. As for the first comment, your idea of "Golden Age of Indie gaming" expands pretty far, since Lethal Company came out a year ago (so no, not EVERY one of them). Let me give you some other names so maybe you might get it: Celeste, Hades, Disco Elysium, Hollow Knight, Vampire Survivor, To The Moon, Dead Cells, Hotline Miami, Doki Doki Lc, Spelunky, Enter the Gungeon, Limbo, Soma, Omori, Eastward. A good percentage of these came out in the last 5 years. Dredge, Cocoon, Venba, Pizza Tower and Viewfinder were the top 5 best debut indie titles for the Gaming Awards just last year, and every one of them met great financial success. The Golden Age of Indie never stopped, that's the truth. Pursue passion, pursue creative vision, revolutionize the market, or else just give up, it's not worth it.

[@dnaderelmasry7973]

​@@inaridefucc8904Okay good, you mentioned 10 more games out of tens of thousands that came out and utterly failed to even break even. Your argument is that indies make more money than triple A companies, which isn't true when you consider that indies take much, much longer to develop than the average triple A game nowadays. Actual creativity and effort doesn't matter compared to marketing; you can make the next Deus Ex game and it won't blow up unless you either got very lucky or had a lot of contacts.

[@ehyehasherehyeh3304]

I don't understand how research of the market can be against personal vision, I think you got too offended by the "market" word and forget that he never said you should create a new gacha game.

[@DarkReaperK97]

Solo Indie devs don't make games because of money. I mean yeah the money is a bonus to look forward to. But they do it mainly for passion. They want their art out there.

[@KuraiShine4]

Also its just so much fullfilment to accomplish something while not being chained to a desk a making money for someone else strives on your hardwork.

[@MrEffectfilms]

That's true but at the end of the day passion alone feed you or pay your bills.

[@doyourownresearch7297]

that also needs marketing

[@KuraiShine4]

@@doyourownresearch7297 most of the time I'd say yes. But if the game is a niche and or the dev doesnt want to adapt to his audiance and just do his thing it doesnt. Marketing is more about analyzing the market, setting the correct price, and deciding who is your key client to adapt your product in accordance. Then there is publicity which is a different thing.

[@angel_of_rust]

this sounds like copium from the 96%

[@AzadB]

We are 2 devs, we made $150k on our first game (Bonding Ambivalence on Steam) by filling a niche. Indeed it's very important to analyze your sub-market! In our case, we started with an idea that our friends liked, then broadened the execution by mixing game styles that we liked (Dead Space, We Were Here, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes etc.). We're trying to develop a second one, but we don't know if we'll be able to go through with it, we feel like we're starting from scratch against giants who occupy people's full attention. This is the most difficult and psychologically exhausting experience of our lives. On the other hand, the feeling of being in steam's top 400 for a few hours is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Let's see where it goes!

[@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120]

You mean... that french swat, blade runner game?

[@AzadB]

@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 Yes that game, cyberpunk coop but with some horror and technical puzzles 😅

[@azerim2039]

How long did it take you to make it? Were you making it full time?

[@AzadB]

​@@azerim2039 I was alone on the project for a year and a half (it was full time and it was very, very intense, 9 to 11 hours of work every day including week ends/holidays), then there were two of us for testing and playtest feedback. A total of two years of development. Note that it wasn't exactly my first game, I'd been practicing with my friends under the radar to create very simplified mini escape games before Bonding Ambivalence. I was able to develop 3D and programming skills. So I'm not starting from scratch in terms of skills.

[@Greedshot]

Hey! I know your game! I like that you were successful!

[@curts7801]

Thanks for making this, Cam! This was a great look into the business side of gaming, a facet that not nearly enough people give love to. I for one am extremely interested in a video going into marketing for games. I’m one of those oddballs who’s more interested in marketing games than making them. The happy tanks party game failing to gain traction from a Counterstrike video was an eye opener, and told me that there’s a LOT to learn about marketing. Thanks again.

[@GoingIndie]

Thank you!

[@GenericInternetter]

A good trick to avoid being sucked into a passion idea is to make a large list of game ideas before choosing one. Aim for 50. 40 of them will be crap or unoriginal; Dump them. (The 80-20 rule) Of the remaining 10, 8 will be good but too big for a first project; Save them for later. (The 80-20 rule again) Then you're left with 2. Pick one of those 2 and stick to it. You'll often wonder if you should have chosen the other one, but then you'll realize you'd be asking the same question about this idea if you had chosen otherwise.

[@fumetsusozo]

I fall more into the mindset of I can't fail long as I created what I truly wanted. I don't really care much about the money or how many folk play it, I create to see my dreams come true, which can never be a waste of time. Also yes it is good to research who your main viewership will be ahead of time, but I will argue to be careful with boxing yourself into certain genres & cliches to much, as that can lead to just copying what other people do instead of making something that feels creative & natural... I hate media that feels overly checklisty in how it was made.

[@mithogui]

this was one of the most eye opening videos on game dev I've ever seen. Also loved the amount of shout outs to other gaming channels, felt like a cross over. And props on pulling off that awesome Ted lasso 'stache!

[@JeromeMillion]

The Ford quote is actually really smart and used often in User Experience Design. He is not implying that he didn't talk to people and that he didn't ask the question. He is saying that had he asked that question directly and just given people what they said they wanted, he would have given faster horses (if physically possible). What he did instead is listen to the core of the issue, what people were really struggling with. They were looking for a solution to go faster and they had no idea outside of horses so... They asked for faster horses. A true problem solver like Ford had to break away from the "given solution" the "what people said they needed" and find the actual way to solve their problem.

[@CodingAbroad]

My steam game just barely made all the money back. But the vicious comments I got was brutal and stomped my passion to want to make another

[@elbarriotrucker]

What's your game? I'll give it a chance.

[@Cjoudan]

I got a small group and we are making a niche game, I'm hoping it will pop off

[@CodingAbroad]

@@elbarriotrucker aww thanks, well it’s called Bayou Island (it’s a point and click game). I dare not look at the reviews anymore

[@CodingAbroad]

@@elbarriotrucker but don’t pay for it please, I’ll get you a steam key

[@CodingAbroad]

@@Cjoudan I wish you lots of success. Only thing I can advise it try to have a thick skin when it comes to comments and reviews. Especially difficult when you’ve put your soul into a game

[@wimu7957]

been thinking of making a indie game m a web dev and didnt study game dev but its a hobby of mine to learn how game dev works nice having videos like this

[@hairyballbastic8943]

best of luck! would love to play

[@kars6026]

Yeah good luck, you'll need it. It's not an easy task xD

[@ADreamingTraveler]

Always start out small when you first start making games. And always keep an eye on just how big the game is getting through development to keep it in scope or it will become unmanageable. A lot of devs that start out making their first games end up making games that are way too big at first and suffer and fail because of that because it ends up never getting finished

[@MosesMatsepane]

Start Small, and release quickly. You will be surprised by the amount of work required to deploy even a simple game on Steam or Play Stores. The Logos, Marketing Materials, Promotional Content, Videos, etc...Making a game is one thing, deploying a game to the world is something else all together.

[@FirstCrimson]

Super well made video, thanks for taking the time to deliver points in a super clean way. It's surprising the amount of indie devs that question why their game didn't sell well and completely ignore the business side of the whole thing.

[@marscaleb]

When you talk about listening to the right people, I am right away reminded of Salt and Sanctuary. They brought in all these playtesters and almost all of them complained that the game was too hard. But only one of them was a fan of Dark Souls. That one tester was the only one they listened to, because all the others weren't interested in their game to begin with.

[@seraphin01]

ego is a big part of everyone's problems.. and we ALL do that mistake. We've worked SO hard on a project, spent days researching, working etc just to get a random schmuk telling us we're doing something wrong.. and we can't take the critic and just dismiss it. we're all guilty of that at one point, overcoming this will change your life

[@saycap]

I’m convinced you can’t go wrong if you live by the valve philosophy. playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest playtest. Playtest when you only have like two things in your game. Playtest with everyone all the time. And then you take the feedback into consideration and you end up with Portal

[@digitaldritten]

@@saycap what if you have already had everyone you know playtest but you need a fresh set of eyes? where do you find people willing to playtest for you AND give feedback?

[@saycap]

@@digitaldritten the internet isn't a super great space for that because of anonymity but go to real life spaces that are. College, meetups, gamedev conventions and events. Places where other people who think the same as you are going. Friends of friends, friends of family, nearby businesses and local groups work too.

[@John-z7m]

@@digitaldritten I'll give your game a shot lol.

[@eccentricstylist]

Thanks for the awesome video as always! Currently working on a 2D indie game myself/ solo (in addition to a full-time job), really found this insightful -- especially the idea of where to put the passion. Reminds me a lot of what they teach us about startups -- fail early, fail fast. With that being said, I can only hope I am in the right direction haha XD

[@Wenedi]

Let's be honest. There are usually 2 reasons for games failing: - No marketing - The game is trash/boring Tis the truth

[@SmithPCs]

I mean, yeah... Those are the two key things to success in the game-development industry.

[@crushycrawfishy1765]

Not always. People really underestimate timing. Your game can be legitimately good, but it gets overshadowed by something like Overwatch or the release of elden ring sucking up all the air in the room. Games can fail for a number of reasons outside of those two.

[@jvrcst]

IKR, ive tried out this new Parkour game called Rooftops & Alleys, my god, it has like 15 controls i need to remember to make just 5 tricks...

[@georgescugicu9202]

@@jvrcst I also tried that game, and it's great.... except it's only great on paper for me personally. I want a game like that parkour game except it being more accessible, but still have some depth, and if the devs really wanted a simulation, it'd be nice if that was a specific gamemode.

[@JustAnotherGuyWhoHatesGoogle]

Or because it didn't have enough strong black women in it, so almost no gamers could identify with your character.

[@mrpojsomnoj3313]

My tip for myself: 1. Be curious always, intentionally with set goals for your curiosity 2. Take notes. ALWAYS. Write in 10 empthy notebooks you probably have. 3. Be proud of yourself for you being you and respect others for them being them. 4. There is no right answers, but there IS better answer. Almost always.(unless it's hardware limitation and memory read cap)

[@dreamteckstudio]

Something that comes up again and again on YT is indie devs making their "dream game". I'm so glad that this video is tapping into that "Dream game" mentality. Your dream is not everyone else's dream. It's either a hobby or a job and if you want to do this as a job, you gotta make your player base's dream game. ...said a studio that goes by the name of DREAMteck xD

[@Guy-cb1oh]

I disagree. You should absolutely make the game you yourself would want to play. Because there would be heart and passion behind it as opposed to a game that's just made to chase popular trends. Afterall if the developer doesn't like the game they're making why would anyone else.

[@dreamteckstudio]

@@Guy-cb1oh unfortunately the business side of things is not concerned with heart and passion. Balance is key. You should enjoy what you're doing but taylor the product to your target audience.

[@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120]

@@Guy-cb1oh Define heart and passion, does it mean the game has, extra details and looks a bit better? That it is magically better? The situation is that A: people usually dont recognize "passion" and B relying on word of mouth is a recipe for disaster, think of word of mouth as a bonus not your mainstay in marketing and yes, sometimes it does cost money. Games are more like movies than painted art, its a business.

[@xei2694]

@@dreamteckstudio People who buy indie games (and games in general) definitely are concerned with heart and passion. Of course, the game also has to be good. Looking outside the indie sphere, Daikatana and Balan Wonderworld had heart and passion, but they were commercial failures because they were not good.

[@Guy-cb1oh]

​@@xei2694right. And the opposite can be true too. Games that are technically good but have no soul to them.

[@dameanvil]

00:00 🎲 Only 4% of games turn a profit, making indie game development a high-risk endeavor. 01:17 🛠 Focus on the process of creation rather than just the idea to maintain passion and motivation in indie game development. 02:52 📊 Research your target market thoroughly to understand player demographics, preferences, and market potential. 04:05 💼 Indie developers need to adopt an entrepreneurial mindset and wear multiple hats, including game development and marketing. 06:07 📣 Effective marketing, targeting the right audience with valuable content, is crucial for indie game success. 07:25 🎮 Games are a combination of art and business, requiring both creativity and strategic planning for success in the industry.

[@googlekopfkind]

One should definitely create the game they're excited about. It doesn't make sense to focus on pleasing others because otherwise, you'll lose motivation in the process. Anyone who doesn't understand this has absolutely no clue about game development. There is no long-term motivation if one does not do what they themselves are enthusiastic about. I made this mistake and completely lost my motivation over several years because instead of being innovative, I simply conformed to the market

[@theresnothinghere1745]

Honestly its the same thing for most creative mediums. If you want to learn to draw my best advice is draw the thing most on your mind, you're going to need all the motivation you can. Don't save it for when you're good or you will never start, if you really want to do it later then just draw it again after a year or so.

[@SLSat]

That's a tough thing to balance. On one hand I make games because I want to have fun and do things I like, regardless of being successful (which is pretty subjective if you ask me). However, if you want to make money, there's not much of a choice: need to do market research, see if this idea will sell, be realistic with what "success" you will get (if you will ever get any). Oh well

[@TESkyrimizer]

How to draw an owl 1) sketch basic shapes 2) draw the rest of the owl Step 4) Market your game to the right audience encapsulates this pretty well. lmao.

[@Runefrag]

99% of the reason why indie games "fail" is because they are simply trash. Instead of getting good at the trade and making something that stands out or coming up with an original idea, they grind out some spaghetti-code &/ extremely low effort slop that's more often than not ripping other games off and then they immediately try to sell it. When it doesn't sell, they give up. They do no research, don't train themselves, enter a highly competitive field driven by passion solely for the money and fall on their face accordingly. I can't even begin to count the amount of VN games that gets spewed out on Steam even after it's been made common knowledge that they're the worst performing genre by far.

[@ryanmckenzie5918]

Your point about marketing adding value to the viewer is something that hits me with a lot of KZbin videos. I see a thumbnail, a title, and the channel name, and my first questions are ALWAYS "Why should I care?" and "Why should I trust you?". It's a topic I've been thinking about a lot lately, and if you have more content on that, it would be a must-watch for me. First of your videos I've seen, and you've earned my sub! Awesome stuff here.

[@Osjey]

eeh Indie Game Dev should be about passion. You shouldn't focus on making a great game, you should focus on making a game that YOU want to play. You shouldn't worry about marketing or a target audience. You're the target audience. What hes talking about isn't indie. This is midscope game company talk.

[@TESkyrimizer]

How come some people use gameplay videos in their video essays without even mentioning where the gameplay is from? ANNOYING AF.

[@lethaldosegame]

"don't take everything to heart" accompanied by a shot of Phil Fish 🤣

[@XionSteel]

It's something i notice in some indie games i buy is that they either try to do too much or too little and you can see what they were trying to do but could never really tell when they got off track. I'll sometimes buy something to pass the time and dont get very far in before i want to play anything else, i sometimes buy something that looks substantial but tries to throw in something unique and it just doesn't make the game that fun. This is coming from someone who hasn't really made a game, but i have played a wide range of both good and bad.

[@Drakuba]

counterpoint: If you make something thats actually new and fresh you can ignore half of the vid you still need to market yourself and talk about your game tho, its strong points and what distinguishes you from all the other peasants if you make a game for sole purpose of selling as many copies as possible by making a copy of a game thats already a copy of different game, you need to do all that extra crap as well, because people already played the original so why should they play your watered down version? So dont make Match 3 Puzzle, dont make another Vampire Survivor, dont make next Jump King because theres so many copies of those games floating around your "spin" will just get lost in all the garbage, make something original, something new and different and market those differences

[@mysticflow467]

but the vampire survivor copies are popping off.

[@Drakuba]

and before you make "your version", it will be everywhere Unless you combine it with some other game/genre in a meaningfull way, you would just be a part of the Vampire Survivor Blob if you must make vampire survivor, combine it with Diablo2 for example, just make sure you are not cutting corners. Because 50% Diablo2 and 70% VampSurv wont make 120% game, it will make halfbake game thats missing half its features

[@CrackyCreates]

" like I'm doing right now " >looks in description he fucking got me.

[@HomeslicedVideos]

2:49 The Stormlight Archive is my favorite series too. "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination" is my all time favorite passage in literature.

[@mehmedcavas3069]

as a professional game developer for over 4 years in the mobile game industry I can say that you are %100 true. you can make the best game, have the best effects, increadible visual effects animations sounds and so on. However, if no one knows your game thats your game is a failure. And not just that. Like u said in the video, players do now always want the most polished or visually stunning or unique mechanics. the target audience is really important. What you enjoy does not mean others will enjoy it too. We spend lots of money on prototypes, AB tests, ads, and other test to understand our target market. I really recommend for everyone who is a mobile, indie, web game developer or even has a indie team to watch this video a couple of times and really think about it. marketing does not start when you finish the game, it starts once you think about the idea

[@userdetails1]

Because the market is now over-saturated? For example after seeing how successful Vampire Survivors (auto-shooter, waves of enemies, upgrades that make you way OP) was the number of copycats of it are now in the hundreds. It basically became so successful it became a genre. How can you make money when your game is up against 200 others that are almost identical?

[@somnorila9913]

That game is like Flappy bird, not really a game to consume like an experience, sort of like a good movie, but something more like something to do on your phone instead of talking to people or burning some time until something you have to do. And these small simple games may be a lot of them are also incomplete and of poor quality. So you can compete by standing out with a minimum effort really, finish the game and put in the time to polish it.

[@admiralkaede]

exactly not all indie games are good

[@Ornithopter470]

The funniest thing here is that vampire survivor is basically all those terrible mobile game ads. That genre already existed.

[@justanaveragebalkan]

Comparing those guys and the time they used to live in with an indie game developer these day is close to snake oil sale. The market is so saturated that even if you do create a great game, chances are that people will cry about it, try to pull doom today and see the result. Reality is that people expect way too much and indie developers don't get excused from the equation either, if you sell shit, price it as one don't slap $99 on it .

[@Robonauta]

As someone making an indie game with full awareness it'll never be "worthy of a sale", perusing one of the forums I visit more often, it's incredible how listening to feedback seems to be the exception, rather than the rule. Devs that are way in over their heads is one of the most common problems, they have this huge, complex idea and ignore everyone telling them to dial back on promised features. This for "simple" RPG Maker games and Visual Novels, more often than not. As said, you don't have to listen to every piece of feedback, but when the majority of feedback point to the same problem, then you should definitely work on that. I've also helped a fellow with playtesting his current beta version of a game, his message when he sent me a copy was "I think there are only 2 bugs left" - I've found one money exploit, one possible infinite exp exploit (repeating a boss fight), several problems with the save/load system, plus a myriad of other problems. He knew I was going to be thorough, so I'm hopeful he'll work on fixing most of those things.

[@GamingMusicClean]

I get what you're saying and agree with most of your takes. But I think this business & market-oriented games will always lack creativity and originality or at least the devs will have to sacrifice a small part of it's creativity and originality. And I personally feel that this is exactly what we need right now, as the AAA studios give us mostly games that feel like a hollow copy of a copy and that's the reason I prefer to look for Indie Games in the first place, because they actually bring something new.

[@farmerfreakeasy]

I just wrote a whole comment saying pretty much the same thing. Thinking about money is the problem not the solution. The current videogame "crash" and multiple layoffs is surely instigated by greed and a lack of creative spirit.

[@omerozkaya2856]

You can still have creativity and properly market a product. A lot of people in the comments section just sound like they only want to focus on one aspect of game dev. Production isn't the only thing you can focus on if you want your game to be successful. Also, you can 'want' money and also 'want' a creative game; they're not mutually exclusive. Cutting corners will just make your spirit weaken as a developer if you can't seem to get the results you're expecting.

[@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120]

@@farmerfreakeasy the layoffs are routine, they are done to impress investors and show that they are "responsible" with their spending by trimming down on cost and people, most companies are not exactly at risk of falling out unless they do something stupid, they know what their audiences are, and the audiences will eat it up.

[@farmerfreakeasy]

@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120Still, i think the current layoffs are definitely a result of greed in the industry. On a multi-faceted level. Who wants to buy an incomplete, bugged game, that was released early due to greed. Who wants to buy a download you can no longer share with anyone else. Who wants to buy a PS5 when they're still happy with their PS3or PS4. Who wants to buy a game which prods you for micro-transactions continuously. It's greed on a multi-faceted level. Players won't tolerate this financial mentality.

[@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120]

@@farmerfreakeasy Mobile tells us otherwise.

[@VinciWare]

Solid video through and through. Saving (and subscribing) so I can come back and watch in a few months! Cheers!

[@TrankeraGamer]

Curious fact about this video: at exactly 6:07 the meme of a woman with complicated mathematical formulas appears in front of her. This character is called “Nazaré” and is from a Brazilian novel that was televised here in 2004, called “Senhora do Destino” (“Lady of Destiny”). Here in Brazil we use this image a lot when we want to make fun of a situation that seems absurd. By the way, I'm an indie developer and I found the topic covered in this video very interesting.

[@NoneNullAnd0]

Ideas are way more important than execution. You can see a fair amount of unique games out there amongst the successful games, but look upon all the failures and you'll find an endless supply of ____-inspired clones. Coming up with a good idea may not happen right away, but it is trivially easy compared to the rest of development. Stop making preexisting games. Make something unique.

[@EICDarkOrbitEIC]

You made a video about indie games and tried to promote 'tanks but no tanks' but 4 days later the it has the same amount of reviews. Marketers thinks people are stupid and they'll buy anything if it's well addvertised. But the truth is people are not strupid, and they won't by shitty product no matter how hard you try to advertise it

[@r0yce]

Oh they will buy shitty product totally if the marketting is strong enough.

[@r0yce]

Because the only Indie games that succeed are unique. And most indie games are boring, copies or introduce no unique mechanic. And then there's the point of it taking too much time and people got no money.

[@farmerfreakeasy]

This is a really well narrated video and you make some very valid points along the way. But can i just say the video leaves a rather bitter after taste. The reason ? The main point of the video seems to be that you should research your markets better, and let the market dictate your final product. Or in other words i feel that the message of this video is that you've only succeeded if your final product is a commercial success. Many creative projects are finished and released(especially in the world of music) and never amass a suitable financial reward despite being of huge value to those who've discovered and appreciated the product. In the world of music "commercial success" is often equated to: "creative failure". Just because an album is platinum it doesn't necessarily mean the finished product is of creative worth. Some of the biggest contemporary albums/videogames/movies will ultimately be forgotten about in the history vaults 100 years down the line whilst creative niche classics are eventually pulled out and hailed as being before their time. My advice would be to make a videogame that you respect yourself. If you're worried about paying the bills then allocate your time for dual purpose creativity: make the commercial game(that you still respect) whilst allocating an amount of by-time to the more risky, experimental project, that you don't just respect but deeply love. We should never forget that videogames are an artform. An artist which focuses more on money than creativity will always be distracted from their upmost creative potential. Money tends to corrupt and curtail art, not unleash a pure imaginarium built for a spiritual purpose.

[@mtg-dev]

Exactly my thoughts throughout the whole video. 💯 That's why it's rare now to see AAA companies creating anything creative or new, just a shinier version of an existing game that is according to their research will be a commercial success. Creativity is risky, and there's no way around this. Most of my favourite and most memorable games in the past 6 years have been indie games, and I'd bet that many of them weren't that much of a commercial success, and I'd also bet that their creators weren't building them for the sake of making tons of money out of them, they just had a vision that they wanted to bring to life. There are tons of other ways to making a lot of money in a more guaranteed way, and game development is mostly not one of them.

[@samh8296]

Well, he did say in the video "Success is a matter of perspective." I think this video is pretty valuable for teams who are trying to ensure that their time and money invested isn't put to waste. Individuals and small groups who are happy to just make something probably don't need to worry about profit anyway; but if you have your jobs on the line then it probably would be smart to tip the scales in your team's favor.

[@Yourwaifuisntreal]

I'd also would say that not saturating the market with mediocre pixel art, rogue-like, souls-like, metroidvanias, etc, is something to take into consideration.

[@glonkwfuggler6790]

Reading this while I’ve been working on a roguelike with mediocre, amateur pixel graphics 😭

[@priyanshugoel3030]

Hell yeah​@@glonkwfuggler6790

[@SmithPCs]

I think as long as they fill a niche that somebody out there wants, why not make a souls-like? The hate on pixel art nowadays is crazyy tho

[@Clock1-work7]

Reading this while I’ve been working on a metroidvania with mediocre, amateur pixel graphics, except I can’t code and am struggling with simple gameplay elements.

[@Mr_Mistah]

​@@SmithPCs The hate on pixel art actually isn't crazy it's 100% justified every indie game looks like it was developed in 1990 and they look terrible that's why they fail 😂

[@Z8MB1ET0WN]

Something really cool about this video is the fact that the advice you are giving to game developers is also the exact same method you are using on this video: hitting the right demographic, providing value, and encouraging engagement. You made me want to watch the video, so if there was any evidence of this method working, we can literally use your video as that evidence. Well done!

[@agmenos47]

I agree and disagree. The reason why alot of indie games see success was because of its interisting content, the creativity. Making a game with business in mind limits the creativity and thus likely making the game uninteresting as why would they play game from unknown devs that others had already done. And the fact that some indie games today that are now successful were never created with business in mind.

[@testtestjimmy]

A very business-focused approach here. I think the first few though a very relevant The difference between success and failure is perseverance. Fail fast, adapt and grow.

[@marioruiz481]

Nice Video Man!, I was sad by the end but that twist to a happy ending was excellent.

[@CombativeRoboGuy]

I was just doing something else with this in the background when I heard “to quote The Way of Kings” I froze and second guessed whose video I was watching. Stormlight is one of my favorites too, I love that you chose that quote.

[@Algardraug]

What is the most important step a man kan take? Is also fitting for this, but that's from a later book!

[@KITT.007]

It’s ironic that the channel is named “Going Indie” when this vid says that 96% of Indie video games fail

[@MrSkeleton14]

How make indie game not fail: 1 Sell indie game 2 Buy your own game 3 Profit

[@weaponsmith]

💀💀💀 bro what?

[@skud1377]

It got taxed and now I can't afford to buy for the 10th time ☹

[@MrSkeleton14]

@@skud1377 then buy the government, the taxes go right back to you.

[@skud1377]

@@MrSkeleton14 (:

[@eightsprites]

@@MrSkeleton14Will do, with your money

[@MechanizationStudio]

I already made 6 personal projects before the game I am currently working on. None of them were fun. But I have lots of confidence for my current project because I have gotten some pretty good comments from people that are really interested in my game

[@kars6026]

Nice, what kind of game is it? I'd like to try it. Because i like trying games from new developer. Even i know some that made it to steam.

[@MechanizationStudio]

Sorry I can't reply to you my replies keep getting deleted, I don't know why

[@Trupen]

"Good game will sell itself" is the biggest lie indie developers tell themselves

[@MechanizationStudio]

you sure? can you show me an example where the game is seriously good but has no sales?

[@qunas101]

@@MechanizationStudio Secrets of Grindea, Superfighters Deluxe - just off the top of my head

[@TNTITAN]

@@MechanizationStudioIs it really that hard to believe in a market where 10000 games are released a year one might get missed?

[@MechanizationStudio]

@@qunas101 the first one got more than 4k reviews on steam, even though it is still early access, I think you can't say it got no sales

[@Pie_Mastah]

@@qunas101 those games seem to be above 2k reviews. hard to really call it 'no sales'. i think something like phoentopia would be a better example since i remembered it having only like 400 reviews in the first year on steam

[@newtforgegames]

Very inspirational, I've been trying to figure out ways to spruce up my own devlogs and find that right audience!

[@CheeseWithMold]

Gonna be honest, I thought this video was just going to be another run of the mill "Heres THREE things you NEED to KNOW before making a game!!!!!!", but what a breath of fresh air. Completely grounded and sound advice to give. I'm just a hobby game dev, but this really showed me how much deeper the rabbit hole can go!

[@Fireballof3]

I work at a tabletop games company and the lessons here are just as relevant in that industry - Know your audience, know your market, be passionate about refining your work process, market like a champ, don't forget about the business. Always good to hear the same strong lessons from another point of view.

[@JonelKingas]

I noticed, if you want your game to succeed more often just make a 3d, multiplayer game. look at lethal company, phasmophobia, content warning... if these games were singleplayer and 2d with same concept it would be bad and boring... well tbh even 2d is good, but multiplayer boosts success rates a ton... barotrauma is one example that game is amazing

[@realkekz]

The problem is that the market (and society but we won't get into that) is too fragmented for any game to really take off like the old days, people don't just watch a few big youtubers anymore, and word of mouth just isn't what it used to be. You have to compete with a thousand other games, many of which are going to be released on the same day as your game, and there's no guaranteeing that your game which you love and worked on (your baby, more or less) is going to be loved and cared for by other people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that just doesn't cut it on the open market.

[@f11bot]

2:33 “Execution is everything”, I hate this quote. Thinking like this is why the AAA game industry is stagnant. Do what they can’t: AAA studios can’t take risks, and that’s exactly what indie devs can do, and should be used in their favor. If you want to make something great you need both: execution and idea.

[@f1reflam3]

Plus, no indie dev can execute things better than AAA studios

[@f11bot]

@@f1reflam3 that was true long time ago, right now it is possible, not easy, but possible! Thanks to all software and knowledge available nowadays.

[@porudoryu]

Reminds me of that Peanuts strip where Lucy asks Schroeder, 'What happens after 20 years of practicing piano if you still end up broke and not famous?' He replied, 'The joy is in the playing.'

[@Timbermannetje]

Money money money, I fucking hate this life! Why isn’t there an alternative path…

[@journeytothebest7]

Yes, same

[@Antbrat4.0]

Where is your indie studio bro

[@DaimonTrilogy]

This. It reminds me of those videos "how to be a millionaire". Everything turns into business and everyone turns into experts. It is very funny to see the doom creator making 90 games from passion and on the other hand getting advices like "know your market, make it for them" Insanity

[@Antbrat4.0]

@@DaimonTrilogy I literally never found any evidence of the existence of his indie studio

[@james-s-smith]

@@Antbrat4.0 ~2 weeks ago he released "Stranded Shootout" into Early Access. It was made in a week; you can see a video about its development on his channel named "Your First Game Should Be Out Already" or something like that.

[@paulvecchio4088]

I’ve had this game idea in my mind for years. Boxman, the explanation is long, but it is a surface level cute but underline cosmic horror game. I’ve been in the planning stage for 5 years and just started my dev journey. It may be 10 years before I get to make the game as big as I see it. Maybe it won’t blow up, but I plan to make a game no one has seen before and I’m taking it one step at a time

[@creastalunga7199]

Ohh, that sounds really interestingg! Il be looking forward to seeing how it will turn up!

[@vincev4630]

I'e always wanted to play as a box-man...

[@View619]

Games fail because devs think their idea is special, when it really isn't doing anything new or interesting. Game devs are the most biased parties when it comes to critiquing their own work. They frequently gloss over issues that would be obvious to anyone else.

[@ADreamingTraveler]

Never make your passion project your first game. You need years of experience to hone your craft. Once you become more comfortable then when you go to make your passion project it will come out better and more well executed than it ever would have. And that alone is what can make you successful. For example Cellar Door Games that made Rogue Legacy and Motion Twin that made Dead Cells they actually used to work on mobile/browser games for years before they decided to stop making those and make their passion project on pc/consoles. There's many more examples like that. Just start off creating small projects to get better.

[@BlackFrawg]

Subscribed! I'd love to see a video about marketing!

[@psaldorn69]

Making a game is the most fun game I've ever played.

[@MardaxGames]

For marketing: You can also ask content creators to help you promote your game to a wider audience. There is a tone of creators like these (me too), and most of them would do it for free/for key to the game. I understand that devs don't wanna give their game for free to anybody, but well… If nobody talks about your title, nobody gonna buy it.

[@kars6026]

Yes you are right. That's why content creator ask review copy or something like that. Not full game but good enough to know what's in it.

[@MardaxGames]

Playable demo of a game is a great option for content creators to show it to more people@@kars6026

[@dei_stroyer]

Why did all those indie tittles fail? Cause there's a select audience that likes pixel graphics, and the fanbase is already taken. Pixel graphics are trash, I will never touch them.

[@junj1023]

Your comment is just wrong

[@ionpopescu569]

Thats such a bad analogy, by your logic just because COD is a popular shooter that invalidates all other existing shooters and no one should even attempt to create new shooters. Change your mindset, every form of art can be beautiful if executed correctly.

[@sawerek1]

@@ionpopescu569 you use cod as an example, but it really is true, it holds the shooter genre all on its own and anything else is always compared to the king of arcade shooters and if its not on par in quality it gets forgotten quick

[@MattColeSports]

This is a gold mine of ideas, for game devs, but also just pursuits (business, sports, etc) in general. Great work

[@metinevrenkurtulus]

1:07 That's not what imposter syndrome is.

[@EngineIdiot]

I’ve had so many game ideas that fail as soon as I spent more than 4 days on a single feature. This is what needed.

[@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203]

Terrible advice. You dont make games to make money. If you want money, go get a real job (doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc). If you try to please the market, your games will suck and wont be able to compete with AAA who already have established brands. There are safer products to build a company around. Make the game you want, keep a very short scope and publish it.

[@shiningfilmzph]

I disagree. Bc if you know how to make games you could join already established studios

[@patman_for_sure]

​@@shiningfilmzphthose studios won't allow YOU to build

[@shiningfilmzph]

@@patman_for_sure at least you'll earn money so you can save up to publish one of your own in the future. I suppose

[@patman_for_sure]

@@shiningfilmzph hmm, that's a good perspective. But, on the other hand, they could suck the joy of game creation out of you so much that you will just not try anymore. Plus, developers don't get paid that much in those corporations by default. Refer to my previous point of how you can lose the energy to build games at all the longer you are in those scenarios. It's a vicious world.

[@derrickjohnson4952]

A “real job” so if I get decently paid for my game I guess it’s not a job. Here I thought a job was a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid.

[@brobbeh]

Indie dev here: the reason most dont do a second game is not because we lose passion, it's because we invested all of our savings in the first one and need to get a job to pay rent after it. It often takes years of your life to make a game and unless you luck out with a publisher ( haha good luck) you'll be doing it out of your pocket. Years. Without income. Unless you also work jobs on the side which is grueling and will likely lead to burnout. Burnout is different from losing passion too and will crush you.

[@R3GARnator]

Probably your best video yet.

[@buttonsoftware496]

Choosing the right genre and adding things like multiplayer co-op can really make the difference. I have 3 games on Steam with only 1 selling over 1.5k It's a survivors-like and I keep players coming back with weekly content updates, driving sales via word of mouth (and their friends seeing them play).

[@Outrack]

As of 2023, just under 40 games get released on Steam every day. This is often cited as a discouraging example of oversaturation, but when you look at those games it's easy to see that most of them are throwing ice into the ocean and merely adding to the pile of low-effort visual novels or plucky 16-bit era throwbacks. The uncomfortable truth is that many indies will blame economic factors or a lack of understanding of business and marketing, when the actual problem is that they spent several years of their lives making something completely uninteresting. Worse yet, they take this experience and present it as an expectation for others in a self-indulgent post-mortem to normalize failure so they can feel less bad about missing the obvious. Stop taking advice from failures who'll try to convince you that you should do something "small scale". Aim higher.

[@bc4198]

3:14 Bahahahaha! 35 years later, "Rack and Peanut Steering" still lives rent free in my head 😂

[@ghosttogether]

imagine stanley kubrick failing at making a movie. do you want to know why it never happened? because he was a film maker. the reason indie games "fail" is because they are not made by game developers.

[@dainess2919]

Never heard of Kubrick failing to make the Napoleon film, huh?

[@motioncache]

Just started sharing my journey on here. Thank you for sharing videos like this. They, truly help.

[@Idkikdhdnbd]

Those advices doesn't gonna make your game good , you just gonna make a game like those terrible aaas

[@marcsh_dev]

Heya! Great channel. After decades of AAA experience, Im diving into Indie dev and I really like your approach, pragmatism, and frankly positivity Thanks for putting this out! Cant wait to be at the stage to doing this.

[@illsaveus]

Seems like using this method of doing market research, no matter what genre of game you're making you'll arrive at the same answer: your game won't sell.

[@jerzyk7724]

Great example of listening to people is Techland. They always listen to their community, talk to us, get our feedback good or bad. They learn on what they did wrong and change things to what we want. For me they are Number One Developer when it comes to it.

[@aquaneon8012]

In another video you claim that "indie games killed the AAA industry" yet in this video you say 96% of indie games fail. stop clickbaiting.

[@xxdemonofoblivionxx2458]

All videos like this are bullshit anyway. Entertainment isn't about making quality anymore....it's just about being trendy and gaining internet points. Let's be real, a majority of gaming just fucking blows. The whole indie vs Triple A is just a cover up and distraction from the reality that things have declined badly.

[@Zack-bl2gg]

I’d argue it’s only partially clickbait, and gets the message to the audience in a fair way. Also, those two titles are not mutually exclusive. Indie games can kill the AAA industry, while also failing. They can be undercutting the competition, but also failing themselves, self destructing everyone at once

[@boredom4271]

There are a lot of indie games

[@Lynxdeer]

Those are two completely separate claims- some, but not all (that 4%), indie games “killed” AAA. That’s also not clickbait, since he talks about exactly what the title says, even though it may be a little exaggerated.

[@xxdemonofoblivionxx2458]

@Zack-bl2gg That's like the dumbest thing I've read. Most people aren't giving a shit about the half-baked asset flips that over saturate the market. Also Indie didn't kill anything! If Triple A was dead it wouldn't even be selling as much as it does. You guys just love being delusional about everything because you're not willing to see the fact that everyone keeps only mentioning the same exact games that already came 5-10 years ago. Honestly, I don't even know why I'm replying to you.

[@henokh.c]

what the song name at 10:30? The violin piece is amazing.

[@entropino9928]

Can never find the games I want to play and keep finding games in genres I despise.

[@farmerfreakeasy]

In a few years time the internet will have much better sociological filters for creative niche releases. Until then..... we suffer.

[@entropino9928]

@@farmerfreakeasy The problem is that the filters on the webstore are such absolute garbage... No steam warhammer total war is not a choose your own adventure game

[@MrOverlordSir]

Research is good, but make what you want. otherwise it will have no heart…

[@somnorila9913]

Yeah, but why is the goal to make as much money as possible and "be successful"? Better make the best game you can, the game you want to play. If just a small group of people likes your game is perfectly fine.