How Outdoor Gear is REALLY Made

[@timschwamb721]

Love the commitment to quality that OV has committed to. I could not be happier with those items I’ve invested in. Thanks for your dedication to provide good products with good quality!

[@LMay64]

I appreciate you taking the time to make this video. It addresses outstanding questions regarding outdoor gear (and many other products) on the market today. I've been very pleased with nearly all of my OV purchases with the exception of one. I did purchase an OV UQ about 3 years ago based on price but also based on my previous experience with my OV shadowlight pack. The UQ did not hold up to the winter conditions and elements and it did not provide the comfort I had in found in previous similar products. I ended up selling it. Fast forward to my recent OV gear. I adore both new packs, my OV fast pack and the CS-40. They are extremely comfortable, functional and of top quality. I can make that decision as I have packs from several leading cottage brands that cost as much or more. Just recently, I put the Vario and the Ventus to the test. They are fantastic! Not to mention how much I appreciate the Tushar rain jacket when I expect conditions to be bad. Kudos to OV for the innovation and insight. Keep being amazing!

[@chipkk7868]

Tayson and team thanks so much for continuing to inform us about how to look at the products we purchase. I was attracted to OV with the Loftek jacket. Then after seeing the OV business model, focus on performance, and transparency I find myself judging every purchase against the very criteria in this video for both the product and the business. So simply put, OV has it right.

[@joeclark3149]

Your video was really good. I have often thought about those things you explained in your video. When your old it’s all about the memories. The first time opening the package for a suspension stem or seat power post in the 90s…. Or seeing the original vintage bontrager bike made in Santa Cruz. Realizing you should have bought it despite being $1200. Things eventually get sold or worn out but the memories are wonderful. We often buy for the mystique of a product (the adventure) and of course how it makes you feel. These things that may seem like it cost a lot are often priceless once you realize how fast life zooms by. I have made my own gear but honestly store bought is the best…making your own gear (quilts and tents) makes you realize several things.. you can do it You do it because your cheap . ….and to appreciate the time and effort of others no matter what part of the world they are from…

[@pr0n3]

So many true points, especially the origin being connected to quality. Oversite and good management are key to quality no matter where its made. Great video and thx for sharing my dood.

[@TripSmith]

Great video Tayson..... love the openness and honesty from you guys. I need to add another piece of OV gear.....

[@greasemonkey4god]

While on a missions trip to El Salvador a few months ago I met a gentleman (our translator) who works at a fabric factory that makes high end fabrics for outdoor companies. It was super interesting to chat with him! He works in development

[@ChristyHikes]

Tayson, I always appreciate your honesty and I highly value your insights regarding everything backpacking.

[@thebadhombre9917]

Makes me appreciate my Novapro jacket even more

[@DrDavidThor]

You seem like a nice guy. I wish your business all the best. My plan is to basically hike the Appalachian Trail clutching a burlap bag like that old granny lady in the last century. I used to be a street person and I lived in cardboard boxes, so I'm familiar with my own product line.

[@DrDavidThor]

And yeah, I'm definitely going to start looking at seams. Sorry for earlier comments as I didn't know you were a small business owner. I got lulled by the beard and then who knows what happened next.

[@keithcaron8144]

Really like your gear. Quality is very good. I have a question about your UL tent. Would it be possible to have a flap that opened up with mesh underneath so that we could view the stars from bed? How much weight that add?

[@PD-we8vf]

This guy just talked down to us for 10 min.

[@DrDavidThor]

Yeah but he has a great beard.

[@lukemeikamp7146]

The video wasn’t even 10 minutes…

[@greasemonkey4god]

I’ve personally seen the product improvement. I bought a set of down booties a couple of years ago and I liked them. I bought a set more recently for my son. And the new ones are even better quality!!! Better stitching. insulation is more even

[@medicus5565]

Tayson, great video with fresh and meaningful content! I truly appreciate your insight into this unspoken aspect of product quality. Please do more videos like this and offer us some instruction on how to spot quality in various products (or lack thereof). Thanks!

[@eric55406]

Thanks for the video. I don't have a lot of OV gear but I've heard good things so will be considering your company among the best of the brands.

[@jameshull6776]

Brilliant video , I'm commenting liking and subscribing , because I believe that you were honest, informative , educational and up front with this inside and information. Now I'm not going to say that it didn't serve at the same time , it did! but because you were honest, informative, educational. Your product was a point of reference that high the for mentioned to the audience so as they can make more informed decisions on the purchase. I will be certainly checking on your products in the future.

[@RobFarrell17]

OV stuff has gotten much better over the last 4-5 years. It’s a solid brand and worth the $$$z.

[@stoicodysseys6352]

I for the most part Trust my OV gear. I do believe it's well made gear. The Ventus, Nova UL, and Loftek jackets were great additions to my kit. I always check out OV for what innovations they have on the horizon. Having said this I do like to spread the love between true cottage companies and what I consider OV to be ,a hybrid, because they embody the cottage company ideals but do have their products manufactured elsewhere. I only had one OV piece fail on me and that was when my frame stay broke through the Shadowlight pack. When I explained that I never removed the frame customer service was quick to reach out and we found resolution. In my opinion that proves OV will stand by their gear and the promises they make. I like the direct to consumer platform and I love the innovation at Outdoor Vitals and I believe Tayson and his team have solidified themselves in the outdoor industry. Good people and good gear.

[@liamcalder6237]

what was the resolution?

[@stoicodysseys6352]

@@liamcalder6237 They offered store credit in this case as I declined another or repaired pack.

[@ryanpm4460]

I have 2 older coats, a hammock, under quilt and top quilt / bag, dragons wool top and bottoms. Probably more. All because way back I found a company that made these carabiners that had a plate that hooked to fabric. I still have them and I don't think they have been a product for 10 years. Im happy, Even if its out of ignorance to how to tell quality stitching.

[@lochlainnmaguire9923]

Thermarest, Norrona and Bridgedale are the only few that make their products in their own factories I think. Thermarest's factory is connected to their office in Cork and Norrona's factory is also connected to their office. I may be wrong tho, its just what the rep's have told me

[@LeopoldElwes]

A disagree, country of origin does make a massive difference.😂 how the people are treated does Make a difference in quality of the product. 😅 A product should not just be based on price and material, but also on its effect. 🤔

[@mobilewintercamp7515]

It damn well makes a difference . The pride, economics, independence and strength of local people and together as a nation all matter. The pandemic proved that when the halt to shipping caused shortages as opposed to the old days when everything in house on our soil would have ensured our stability

[@EZPrAnCs]

And who says that where all these products are made treat their people poorly that would lead to a poorly made product? The fact is that there are perfectly moral factories worldwide where products are made that employ normal people that are just working their job. Everyone likes to think that just because it's made overseas means that there is abuse taking place

[@Sharon-we5cd]

The country it is made in I don’t think makes a difference in quality but it does in other ways. I feel like we send so much of our manufacturing outside of our country. Covid was proof that we cannot sustain ourselves. We manufacture nothing here. I like it when I see that there are things made here because it means jobs here and it means manufacturing capabilities here. If people decided not to trade with the USA we would be screwed.

[@sdnalyam]

Please get a Distributor for Australia and New Zealand.

[@toddwilson1230]

Good video, the note on manufacturing location is bang on for more than just outdoor gear, it applies to almost everything. People on site always complain about Chinese steel being crap and the stuff work bought was, but that’s because they bought on price we could have also got some of the best on earth from the same manufacturing location (not the same business.) You often get what you pay for.

[@dougbeaumont5100]

Quality is not the issue for me, it's money and jobs being exported to our country's enemies.

[@TheUnwokeFool]

Tyson, why are you deleting comments on you tube that are unfavorable? Is it that you know that the comment is true.

[@logictd567]

Mormons

[@chase-life]

Great video. As someone with a career in product development and who has run a manufacturing company, this is spot on. Also, as an older person, I recall when products from Japan were considered crap. I always wondered if there was a hint of racism in that perspective. Anyway... now I want to buy something from OV. :)

[@JohnathanAulabaugh]

I think the what kills me with outdoor gear these days is just how expensive it has become. I mean $140 for a pair of pants is kind of ridiculous. All outdoor gear from nearly every company has just gotten out of hand.

[@boopernator]

I have learned so much about hiking/camping gear since I found Outdoor Vitals, I have enjoyed all of their podcasts and videos. And I have not been let down by any of the gear I have purchased.

[@ThenaturalmedicAdventures]

Good stuff ty!

[@commonsensecamper]

What he is saying here is true. However here is my complaint. His gear just like Mini other gear manufactures are cutting down on size. Perfect example. I wear an extra large shirt. I purchased one of his hoodies and I ordered it in a extra extra large. It fits like a large. Another issue is backpacks and fast packs. Volpi, palante and yes, OV make the straps to the shoulders and the strap that goes around the waist way too short and I mean way too short. I realize I am not Brad Pitt. I am 57 218 pounds and I have yet to find a fast pack or other outdoor gear that actually is true to size. I don’t understand why it would cost much more to add another 4 to 5 inches on every waist strap and, 3 inches onto every shoulder strap. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I love the 30 L fast pack and the sun hoodie I purchased here, but both of them are too small and I ordered the large fast pack.

[@AZ_Wilderness_Man]

I purchased some ball caps and North Face nock off Jackets from China years ago and they were made as well or better than the name brand seller items.

[@clarkansas6590]

Good job

[@mikekeretzman4757]

Well done. Much information. As for reviews, consumers need to do a better job communicating real facts, real temps, real conditions. Reviewing by wearing it in your living room or backyard is not of much value to a potential buyer of that product. The 5 “W” still apply in making a review.

[@der_wanderweg]

Thanx for focusing on quality and innovation instead of the ESG crap some commenters here are suggesting. They can pay double for Patagonia.

[@FTW86itall]

Our manufacturing was sent their to maximize profit period. Only the owners make bank. This is a design not a flaw in the system. Why pay your neighbors a good wage when you can outsource and profit baby profit.

[@mattheweanfeldman]

Shareholder value is all that matters

[@ironpig701]

To be fair many people here in manufacturing got way to greedy. Just look at the UAW for a prime example. Be nice to bring more back but its just not profitable to do it.

[@steveh5169]

It's not that it's not profitable, it's that it's less profitable.

[@stoicodysseys6352]

​@@ironpig701That's corporate greed and can't be blamed on the workers.

[@toddwilson1230]

It’s also quality and volume I hate to tell you but some of the stuff made locally is rubbish/ the processes have not modified. I won’t buy American made cars for the quality issues, but will buy the same model off a Thailand production line. Look at the coal industry. If it wasn’t for your huge protectionism of the USA market we could ship it from Australia and sell it in the USA cheaper than your local product. And that’s with our Australian mining wages being magnitudes higher than yours. The reason ? Underinvestment and development of the local industry, you mine coal in 2023 the way we did in the 1980s. why ? Probably because local investors got greedy in a protected market, then they didn’t invest in their workforce or infrastructure so the gap to catch up became too great and now they don’t have the capital to do so.

[@corporaterobotslave400]

This is why I shop @ thrift stores Goodwill and Army Surplus. Buying new gear when you don't have to is as stupid as buying a new car.

[@db6283]

Thanks

[@seansmart3440]

I think beard length is the best indicator of quality. 😊

[@DrDavidThor]

I'd love to meet the one human on the planet who doesn't know how evil Amazon is.

[@Andy-Mesa]

I imagine it's frustrating trying to transition from a company known for drop shipping cheap Chinese crap, and kudos to you for acknowledging this, but we're looking for quality gear at affordable prices. And though your variables may have flipped, you're still not that.

[@MAXCOBRALAZERFACE]

The Chinese have been doing the hole fabric thing for a very long time. I have some high quality wool clothes made in china growing in Australia lol 😂

[@matthewmadden8575]

Everything here is spot on, however I would like to also see environmental impact and labor factored into the manufacturing and purchasing process. Can Outdoor Vitals provide some insight on this. It really seems like outdoor brands should be leading the way in these regards, otherwise it's just fast fashion which is abominable.

[@andygill2162]

Well said

[@joemikeska2657]

I’ve understood how you source your products from day one. Which is why I don’t consider OV a cottage manufacturer. You’re not: you’re a codesigner and sourcer of products and then a distributor. It has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with who you are hiring to make your goods, and personally I’ll spend a little more for products where the primary manufacturing and assembly is done in the US. Your video did you more harm than good IMHO.

[@TheJhtlag]

There certainly is this business model that is as you describe, a relatively small office building somewhere with a few computers, intellectual property rights on some things, a business relationship with a factory in Asia somewhere and slick advertising campaign on the internet, the beard is not incidental. (Whew! I'm glad the guy didn't lose his temper!) I had a favorite brand that made canvas shorts, Mountain Khaki, loved 'em one of those perfect things. But the company was sold out, the factories in NC were closed and the company really just becomes trademarks in a safe somewhere. Not only that, but their design is not one of complete control, they are beholden to those factories for what the can do with a product. The Chinese don't do canvas, so anything coming from there will be some sort of polyester mix or cotton with stretch from now on. certain features disappear from the traditional product etc. so "codesigner" (with the factory) and distributor is a correct statement. The factory may even be the lead on this, the virtual business gets to add and delete options. Now, having said that I can't say that it is not great gear and value added might be quality control.

[@joemikeska2657]

@@TheJhtlag at least OV is open about their process, unlike companies like Six Moon Designs and others which obviously use the same business model but try to present themselves as a Cottage Vendor. And that’s my biggest beef is that some of them act like they are doing the work themselves but actually aren’t. Enlightened Equipment is a brand that seems to straddle both sides of the line depending on which product you’re looking at.

[@joemikeska2657]

@@TheJhtlag at least OV is open about their process, unlike companies like Six Moon Designs and others which obviously use the same business model but try to present themselves as a Cottage Vendor. And that’s my biggest beef is that some of them act like they are doing the work themselves but actually aren’t. Enlightened Equipment is a brand that seems to straddle both sides of the line depending on which product you’re looking at.

[@TheJhtlag]

@@joemikeska2657 Yeah, OK I guess I've know this for a long time but would agree that most Americans don't really understand these dynamics completely and it needs to be said a few times. Mountain Khakis is a perfect example of this PR deception: at one time it really was a bunch of dudes making products in god forbid Jackson Hole WY, probably as expensive a place in the US as you could find, let alone the world. Now it's really intellectual property owned by the LaJolla Group that buys up name brands presumably all locked away in a lawyer's office (in LaJolla?) but they evidentially maintain a post office box in Jackson Hole, maybe even office space so they can send out advertising from...Jackson Hole, WY. The advertising shows a bunch of dudes standing around with the mountains for a backdrop. So yeah, I think we vehemently agree, and the OR guys does kind of say that: We got some deep pocket investors, a strategic plan that I guess aspires to some high quality niche (?) although it would seem like a pretty saturated market to me. I am kind of floored that the camping industry has attracted so much attention but evidentially there's money to be made.

[@black_mountain_death_squad]

Your beard looks like a marketing prop 😂

[@jimizxztheorginal]

If it's not MYOG is it even real gear?

[@eddiecox7450]

If I didn’t learn anything and I’m not saying I didn’t. At least they care about their products

[@craig3401]

1 of the main factors for gear being made is the cheap Labour force so that leaves bigger profit margins.when spending £160 for a pair of trousers like fjhallraven for example that are made in Vietnam are the workforce earning the equivalent wages the Scandinavian workers are being paid I very much doubt it

[@Mikehastohike]

I put a lot of research into buying my outdoor products, I work hard for my money and I want to make sure I’m going to be getting the best out of my investment. That’s why I can proudly say I own a Stormloft 15 degree quilt and an Oblivion sleeping pad which may be the most under rated pad on the market.

[@Riseupforhumanity1]

We are so susceptible to a massive halt in our global economy by one thing… power. If that stops we’re all separated and back to basics. Scary.

[@canadafree2087]

All I know is that Backpacker magazine had an article in which they showed a factory in Viet Nam that had shelves with blueprints in folders from many major American brands. Yes, one factory made many of the same packs regardless of brand. Some of the better brands had American staff on hand to oversee construction. China has too many ethical business issues and the CCP does nothing to stop knockoffs. Taiwan makes decent gear (especially knives) but who knows once the CCP, get's there hand on them. Even American made means little than jobs for Americans; many people complain about new Filson gear compared to old Filson gear.

[@GWiggles69]

Hi Tayson, thanks so much for the great video. I'm one of the people who has emailed you in recent years asking about the country of origin for some of your products, specifically wondering if they were produced in China/PRC. I agree that just because something is Made in China doesn't mean it's poor quality; often the best available version of a given product is Made in China. However, I prefer to make my purchases as far removed from the CCP as possible, while acknowledging that many if not most products I buy are made with components that come from China. This doesn't come from a sense of nationalist separatism; I wholeheartedly believe in the importance of trading culture, especially in the forms of food and entertainment media, and I think it's terrible that China and the USA are at a standstill with respect to student exchange programs. And I also acknowledge that having strong economic ties with China is arguably one of the best ways to secure peace. But I know I'm not alone in my concern with over-reliance on Chinese manufacturing. As others have mentioned in the comments, the CCP has a lot of ethical baggage, and a portion of every dollar spent on a Made in China product goes to them. My best friend is from Hong Kong, and he was unfortunately denied a visa extension in 2020 and had to go back in the middle of the protests, and many of his friends he's known since childhood are now serving years-long prison sentences for protesting. He is luckily back in the US now, but his stories have further solidified my stance.

[@Reindeer_Games]

How does one make a small fortune in the outdoor business? Start with a large fortune!

[@TheUnwokeFool]

Dude got so angry with my honest comment about his service that he deleted it.

[@za-jm8wf]

I don’t really care how it’s made as long as it’s good quality

[@kristymoore7052]

I keep saying this. No one e ever responds. Can you offer a try before you buy with a refundable deposit, less whatever “rental” fees with deposit the same price of the gear?.. or some sort of model.

[@DrDavidThor]

seems reasonable. But you're fifteen hours into no response. Good luck.

[@mobilewintercamp7515]

Years ago there was absolutely a difference but the foreign companies have stepped up in quality. The game changer is an American company overseeing quality control as opposed to the foreign cheap knockoffs having a variety of reliability issues.

[@DieOrBlink]

It'd be cool if OV would stop using PFAS and similar chemicals in their gear.

[@TaysonWhittaker]

We are currently working on phasing out PFCs/PFAS from our fabrics, but I do not have a specific timeline for this transition. The timeline depends on how quickly we sell our existing stock. We are migrating our products to meet PFAS-free standards; however, unless our listing explicitly states that a product is PFAS-free, it can be assumed that there is some level of PFAS in it.

[@SeanHendy]

Where to even begin? As someone that has been involved in ecommerce sine 2006, and been a business consultant and digital marketing expert for more than 10 years, there are SO many different choices and strategies that individuals and businesses make in putting a product onto market. In the mind of the US consumer, it appears that 'Made in the USA' is a significant factor, indeed it is repeated many many times, by product reviews, almost insinuating that it must be better, right? Really not the case at all. I certainly wouldn't approve of the fact that an estimated $11bn of products per year, are made by prisoners, in what is often described as modern day slavery via the back door. Products like body armour, license plates, park furniture, baseball caps, clothing, canoes, and so on. Apple - 'designed in USA', interesting marketing use of words, but intended to detract from the 'Made in China' reality. White labelling - the buying of a generic mass produced product, adding your branding and packaging and selling to the consumer. Pricing - all down to what the brand thinks people are prepared to pay. Often seriously over inflated deliberately, hence why there is such a significant secondary market of copycats, some of which are even made in the same factory. Sometimes people are happy to pay for the brand, even though the product is no different than the cheaper option. Expertise - don't under estimate the level of experience and expertise in countries like Bangladesh and Thailand for textiles and clothing; Thailand for stainless steel products (Zebra billy pot, has an excellent reputation), the list is endless. But pricing I often find is one of the biggest elements. Buy the right quality, but at a higher cost per unit, or, lower quality and lower cost per unit, cost of bulk shipping, import duties, storage and handling, branding, packaging, distributors sometimes or wholesalers, wastage, returns, marketing, customer service, shipping to end user, it all adds up, and if you get it wrong, the business isn't going to last very long. Many times I see two similar products, with wildly different prices. Some of the time you can see features of characteristics that are different between the two, and have to decide whether it justifies the price difference, other times it is not so clear. So then, what about the company, the brand itself. What is their reputation like? How do they look after their customers? What are other people saying? Sometimes, that extra price is worth the peace of mind of dealing with a known entity and a proven brand.

[@logictd567]

Lots of quality gear from trusted brands at a fraction of the price of outdoor vitals. Hard to justify your prices

[@mamterilleq]

I own outdoor vitals gear… and many other out door gear….. good gear is good gear… as an Alaskan…. Trust me. You need to do research on what you want to buy for what you need

[@za-jm8wf]

Only buy stuff on sale, never pay full price

[@mtadams2009]

Until you make your gear in the USA I will never purchase any of your gear. We have to many US made gear now available. I don’t really need to support a country like China, where they pay their employees next to nothing.

[@augusto8821]

My gear is made in Germany and Sweden. Biiig difference

[@jimwhalen4292]

In my experience Vietnam produces a better more consistent product than China when it comes to footwear. I prefer Vietnam to China for most textile products. Perhaps the quality has more to do with what the company sourcing the finished product is willing to pay but when it come to shoes I’ll take made in Vietnam over China.

[@TheJhtlag]

There's sort of a economic ladder that starts with textiles, Vietnam actually was making the tee-shirts for the Peking Olympics, even China's moving production to Africa as they loose the competitive advantage of being the absolute cheapest labor.

[@Chase3141]

None of this gear is even made outdoors

[@ordinarypeople801]

title is misleading

[@Bikepacking]

So not true i know many factories in Vietnam that are owned by European companies exclusively that make there brand

[@TheJhtlag]

The Osprey guy makes a point of that and shows him visiting said Osprey plant in Vietnam.

[@Eric.V.]

Dude got really angry and defensive about having products made in Chinese factories.

[@3nertia]

It's all drop-shipped these days heh

[@ellerybice3787]

Oh my😱. He is going to lose his 🤯 temper. God forbid! 😵‍💫

[@MsRotorwings]

But, that beard doesn’t match your face, or voice.

[@black_mountain_death_squad]

Right, its like the dude is wearing a disguise. Haha. Trust me, im a hiker just like you. Look at my beard! Its kinda authentic looking but oddly off-putting. I personally dont like my own beard, but I think you do, and thats important to me. Listen up, im an expert on being defensive.

[@DrDavidThor]

Hey, he's just been working on himself, doing a little personal growth.

[@DrDavidThor]

Reviews of any product nowadays are useless for the most important feature: durability. By the time twenty-five years have gone by and the product has demonstrated its most important feature, no one cares. Not even the manufacturer, who will have long since cheapened her own product. Reviews are only useful for yakking about whizbangery and gewgaws and gimcracks and bells and whistles. Unless I spend my life driving around looking at actual sources, it doesn't matter that I'm willing to pay lots more for fewer, better products. Olive oil is lies, grass-fed beef is lies, free-range eggs are lies, every single product is lies, the entire camping and through hiking industry is plastic upon plastic upon plastic. That and screaming geese and stressed sheep. We don't even need the ads to lie at us when we can all the lies we need from the products themselves. I'm almost certain you're lying but I don't know how.

[@Bikepacking]

Bs

[@smellybearc7411]

I have never been able to understand why country of origin matters when it comes to the quality of the product. If the manufacturing and quality control processes are adequate, why does it matter where a product is made? I think this whole thing is more political than anything. Assuming adequate quality control and manufacturing process, the only difference in between a product made in USA and a product made in China, or somewhere else where labor is cheaper, is that the product made in USA is more pricy because of the higher cost of labor.

[@steveh5169]

You can buy a backpack made in the US from a true cottage vendor at a price comparable to the OV CS40. You can buy US made quilts at prices comparable to whatever OV sells.

[@burdman0756]

Your definitely not a cottage brand. I have multiple ov products and most are overpriced for what they are. The ventus hoodie and a sleeping bag I own are very good quality but most are just average gear for inflated prices.

[@stoicodysseys6352]

I do like my Ventus. I believe OV jackets and now some of their newer packs are innovative, but I am not a fan of their Quilts due to weight.

[@richardc6269]

R u saying that we as a country, we work with other countries to bring products to life??!? This is so shocking 🤣🤣 don't tell the Maga faithful, they won't be happy. I apologize guys, u folks at Outdoor Vitals have some of the best equipment in the market. I just can't afford most of it. I just can't help it, pointing out that so many are ignorant of how the world works. ✌️

[@stoicodysseys6352]

It's better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt 😉 😂

[@richardc6269]

@@stoicodysseys6352 u should listen to ur own advice. U must be one of the faithful.

[@stoicodysseys6352]

@@richardc6269 Your comment has no context and was out of line. No one comes here to read your politics. Go post on Facebook

[@richardc6269]

@@stoicodysseys6352 Again, take ur own advice. Stoic huh, not really. Just go away then now.

[@black_mountain_death_squad]

Oh please, stop. Economics is to leftists what witches were to the Puritans. Voodoo magic! Gimme muh welfare. Milton Friedman was a right winger. Dr. Thomas Sowell is a right winger. These MAGA people have forgotten more about econ than you will ever know. This ZZ Top wannabe is a phony. His gear is made in China. OV is not a Cottage brand. It's Walmart brand, with lipstick. Tell me more about Economics and how MAGA is too stupid to understand. You do know that Donald Trump graduated from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business. With a degree in Economics!!!! The Wharton School is one of the best business schools in the world, if not the best. Ivy league. 2% acceptance rate. Who are you? Where did you go to school? What have you done in life? *Crickets*

[@MIAMIC70]

Ask a Chinese company not the US company that slaps a logo on it.