How PAY-2-WIN is Tower of Fantasy?

[@Sly_404]

"I love spending money in these gacha games, it's very fun, it's very exciting!" This sentence right there should tell you everything you need to know about that dude and his view on F2P vs P2W.

[@RealCheemsJr.]

Of course because people give him money to blow on this shit. Being a streamer has it's perks.

[@dickensanthony]

@@RealCheemsJr. Like a bad housewife spending thousands that isn’t even theirs smh shaking my head 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@Minderz]

It is fun though.

[@adamchoquette1937]

Exactly the problem right there. If you have "fun" spending money then your opinion is going to based on if you had good luck with your pulls. Spending money is not a part of the gameplay experience I want in any game. The fact that it is in almost every game nowadays is saddening and when people try to defend it, it really feels like they don't really understand the problem with the industry. There was nothing wrong with paying full price for a game and having things to unlock and earn in game. But most companies cannot resist the huge payoff of making a gacha game. The player base for these need to really look at themselves and ask if this is the best way this game could be released? Many of these games have good gameplay, but an absolutely disgusting upgrade system. Imagine if Diablo Immortal had a boss drop the components to upgrade or craft a legendary gem, and the current summoning system for gems didn't exist. How much more enjoyable that would be for 99% of players and a better game as a whole. Gacha games will not be remembered fondly, or could ever be truly re-experienced in 15 years from now. Not like the games I had growing up on the NES/SNES/N64 which I still go back and enjoy.

[@pawala7]

This is what happens when people who should be in casinos realize they don't need to leave the house to get their fix.

[@Always_Pro]

"Why would you hire a psychologist to make a video game?" Ask the team behind Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice. But long and short, to understand the subject matter more deeply. Another legit way is understanding player engagement and ways to focus development on aspects of gameplay that your target audience will value more and reduce wasted effort. Also, ADHD and impulse control kind of go hand in hand. A lot of people downplay how severe it can be. I look at it the same way I view tourrettes. They legit cannot control that tick. The advantage we do have is self-awareness and knowing what triggers we do have. I personally have to straight up avoid playing games like this that prey on that because I will end up buying something while cursing myself as an idiot through the entire process.

[@monkeybusiness3660]

"It's fun to spend money in these games" ... I'm amazed how these people don't see a problem with this. Someone is being played hard here, and it's not the game.

[@Ragnarok.1776]

@@cyanmage1 That is unbelievably sad and pathetic.

[@TuskAct4ZS]

@@Ragnarok.1776 it is, but it's not your life. Those are the people they shoot for

[@pzrxex]

@@cyanmage1 I am not hating on you, but there is so much more stuff you can do out there where you don't have to be social and will have a much greater time doing than paying for a virtual slot machine.I am almost certain you don't believe the game is worth the money you spent on it, it's just a lot easier to sit in front of a computer screen and rolling the dice over and over.

[@NoiZze_]

@@Ragnarok.1776 No your comment is sad and pathetic. You have no right to judge his lifestyle. Not everyone likes to socialize and that is totally fine. I, too, think alcohol and smoking is the biggest waste of money. The fact that he spends money on things he likes and has self control makes him a more grown up human than you are by simply reading your one reaction.

[@zacharytan1883]

@@Ragnarok.1776 just because you have a completely different lifestyle from that dude doesnt mean you can act like that. People like you are some of the reasons why people dont "socialize" and prefer to be alone, the dudes not even doing harm to society unlike you

[@leila13dnd]

The moment I heard "I love to spend money in these games!" I knew this guy would never be honest about the game being pay2win. Like lmao, imagine.

[@VitchAndVorty]

Basically like those rich celebrities who think they're affected by the pandemic just like us because they only eat bread and cower inside their huge mansions.

[@Mrjvc163]

He could be honest too but is in denial. Just how he sees things. He’s probably scared that less people will play the game if it’s spreading out that it’s P2W lol

[@Mister_Phafanapolis]

Maybe he doesn’t consider it P2W because once he paid he didn’t win (because he’s a bad player.)

[@209Diskence]

I hate how people always argue what the definition of p2w is. If you can get any sort of advantage in game by paying, it's p2w. Anyone saying it's wrong is just lying.

[@Steamedhams578]

But how does time factor in? If it's a matter of paying to time-save then games like League of Legends and rainbow6 are p2w as well as if you bought every character you'd have an advantage over someone who has to save up and buy more characters. Most people don't consider those games p2w though.

[@MikeTall88]

@@Steamedhams578 Then those games are also p2w up until the point the characters are unlocked. How many hours are we talking about? Is it years of playtime like Diablo immortal? I'd assume not. Will a new player need to put in thst time anyhow to learn the basics before they try to climb ranks? Yea that's probably true for most players. I don't see a huge problem here. Also, alot of played gravitate to a few heroes, how many really shuffle through all of them or even most of them?

[@Steamedhams578]

@@MikeTall88 For the games including Apex, lol, Valorant etc. You are stuck with playing less than half of the cast for over 100s of hours of gameplay easily if you don't pay up. This is from personal experience playing with friends, it's always like "hey do you have this character? Oh you don't? fuck that sucks for us". Just saying in response to the op this is a clear advantage yet no one calls these games p2w. The context of what the advantages are is clearly important.

[@Valvad0ss]

@@Steamedhams578 sure but that still doesn’t detract from OPs point at all. Like ok good for you

[@Steamedhams578]

@@Valvad0ss I think if you use some logic OP is saying p2w is advantages of any kind while some of us are actually discussing if certain advantages actually impact the game negatively to the point that it matters that it's p2w. Clearly you aren't part of this discussion so cya.

[@SirGrimly]

I feel like people who say "It's PvE only so it's fine." Don't understand how few people actually play PvP in MMOs.

[@williamhamoudakraba5114]

Don’t understand how few people actually play pve in any game

[@tonyhart2744]

@@williamhamoudakraba5114 biggest game out there is pve dude,tf u mean

[@SirGrimly]

@@williamhamoudakraba5114 Considering how many games don't even have a pvp system to begin with (and online play not even being a thing until the early 2000s)... your statement is false :P

[@swordyshield]

fair but also as long as you can get to endgame content without paying(and without like insaneee grinding) and you have no advantage in PVP then why not allow some p2w?

[@williamhamoudakraba5114]

@@tonyhart2744 biggest games are PvP Fortnite Minecraft fifa call of duty …

[@carlossantiago9316]

I would love to get into the NFT market but it's expensive with the gas price alone, something could cost $18 but the gas could be over $400

[@halilguven2898]

1 week i have spent 1eth on gas😪

[@patriciafennel5643]

Last week, Warren Buffett talked in BBC NEWS on how investors and traders can make millions.She recommended an Expert called "Layla Claire Wondering if viewers here are familiar with her services..?

[@toddbarber7950]

@@patriciafennel5643 I have heard a lot about investments with Mrs Layla Claire and how good she is, please how safe were the profits

[@mattmanson1077]

All good investors are conversant with expert Layla Claire She's unique in the field just got to keep to her instructions and you Excel

[@mattmanson1077]

@@vickygeorgiadis4277 through wats'apk

[@Metallijosh100]

"It is not pay to win at all - you can, it's gonna make PVE extremely easy" HUH? How can you say that with a straight face? Literally just said "it's not pay to win" followed by "it is pay to win".

[@rajendradiaz2308]

Because some people. A lot of people think definition of p2w is only when it affects them directly. Like pvp ing. It's crazy how skewed their views are

[@stanleylutzow3132]

"Yes it's pay2win but I'm still having fun playing it, because it's what also pay my bills." You need a translator to understand him

[@Minderz]

I know this might get downvoted but there is no clear definition of pay to win. It all depends on what you consider winning and how much paying helps you with that. Everyone has their own definition. That being said, I would certainly call this game p2w.

[@yummychips_]

100% agree on the pay 2 win take. If you can pay for something that pushs your forward, it is P2W. I play Azur Lane, a gacha heavy on PVE, farming, and collection. It still has P2W, because you can purchase resourcees to grind longer and harder. Still P2W even if it is purely PVE.

[@HO1ySh33t]

PVP in azur lane is "mess up your sleep to win" :V

[@lionart5230]

Only if there is competition. If your advantage can't affect me in any way, I don't care. If there is no economy you can ruin with your advantage, no competition you can gain edge over me - i don't give a fuck. They can give you account with everything unlocked, max level, all items or whatever. If you can't sell it, trade it, compete with me using your advantage - I don't care. It's not P2W. You don't pay to win against me, you pay to "win" the game I guess but guess what, I could type win game code in older games, get unlimited resources and I still choose to not only play the game but also give AI advantage with higher difficulty settings.

[@affyraffy4661]

its called pay to progress not pay to win, know the difference

[@Ragnarok.1776]

@@lionart5230 It's still P2W. You clearly don't care if it's P2W in that scenario, but that doesn't change what it is.

[@zacharytan1883]

P2W is more like "Pay To Have a different kind of fun because you unlocked more stuff than the average f2p player". people just get insecure when they see a whale deal huge pp damage

[@Edanite]

Gonna be honest. I'm of two minds about data mining. 1, it's great for finding little secrets and what could have been for finished games after the fact. 2, it sucks that it drags up spoilers for close to release content. 3, if we didn't have it companies would still be able to lie about drop rates. I've seen examples of it happen in my fave games where a 1% drop rate was actually placed at a 0.1% rate and this was only made aware due to data miners. The problem is the number 2, data miners who don't know how to hold their dam tongue on spoilers.

[@riyuke5856]

Videogames present the player with a challenge to overcome or a problem to solve, if you can pay real money to more easily overcome those challenges/problems, then it's P2W. Doesn't matter if that challenge/problem is presented in PvE or PvP. It's all the same.

[@tot.musica]

But there's differences between good and bad p2w. If the p2w aspect is purely to speed level your way through the pve content but playing f2p is accessible, then I don't see that as much of an issue as that's already in most gacha's and MMO's in general. If PVE content is literally behind a paywall on the other hand and is almost impossible to clear without spending money, then that becomes a problem. Now, that all changes once PVP comes into play though.

[@riyuke5856]

@@tot.musica I'm not sure what kind of paywalled content we are exactly talking about here? DLCs and Expansions are also paywalled content. And what about paywalled rewards like Genshin? You can do the activity but if you want to collect the reward it's behind a paywall once your stamina runs out. Personally I think any way shape or form of P2W should not exist, at all, in gaming.

[@prd6617]

​@@riyuke5856 1 that remember on an old mmorpg, the game lock tier 5 (highest rank) skill on all character and the only way to unlock it by buying monthly pass that only active for a month and the game based on open world PvP so that make it even worse.

[@forsakensadburger5828]

"I LOVE SPENDING MONEY IN THESE KIND OF GAMES" - actual human being(?)

[@batperson3532]

People spend excessive amounts money on whatever makes them feel happy be it shoes, clothes, cars, guns, gadgets etc. Not your money not your problem.

[@curiouslymirroring]

@@hunger4wonder there's literally no difference in the 2 things you said lol just that you feel one affects you more directly than the other. Of course the fact that people buy a fucking million dollar luxury bag has a lot of effect on society, even more than spending thousands in games, how can you even think it doesn't.

[@Terixofevermore]

@@curiouslymirroring I think what he ment, was this kind of behavior of liking to spend money on gacha incentivizes game companies to make video games based on profit rather than fun. Which IS a huge problem. When most games become gacha, it’s because of shit like this, and the more and more this becomes acceptable, the worse it becomes.

[@doggoswampu1450]

@@hunger4wonder Except there is? Basic supply and demand? If someone is buying 50k worth of Channel bags, it reduces supply so the prices for the other bags will go up as there isnt enough to meet the demand, therefore making others not able to afford the bag at their new price? What are you even on lmao.

[@doggoswampu1450]

@Calen Williams Okay, then show me your proof.

[@Lea-lf8jh]

I rarely encounter a friendly whale. Most of the time they're either flexing with their bought strength or just annoy you by killing you and or stealing your mobs and stuff. Yea, I mean I wouldn't be proud after spending 1k+ in a game. You get virtual strength and you literally archieve NOTHING in real life with that, while the devs bath in the money you gave them.

[@peacechan4500]

Usually the one who whales is the one who actually doesn't have a spending. So yep welcome to gacha gaming. You guys made us went here

[@williamhamoudakraba5114]

I’m the world biggest whale on ESO and I don’t have time to flex

[@lirikaantropa7164]

@@williamhamoudakraba5114 bc eso its not a gacha game?

[@dward2116]

If you pay for a item in game and it makes you stronger somehow then you are paying to win doesn't matter if it's pve or pvp

[@rey6708]

@@devolays still pay to win cause the pay to win guy didnt need to farm or do anything besides spending money on his shit

[@francodaribeira6417]

@@devolays What game has its difficult enemies die in 2 hits?

[@rey6708]

@@devolays dude, you literaly dont have to spend time to have better shit then someone that grinded his ass off.

[@rey6708]

@@devolays bruh. fact stands people already pay for advantages and time savings and fact stands its most of the time a predatory design. yes we shouldnt call it p2w we should make it illegal and call it illegal.

[@slayin1496]

@@rey6708 it should be illegal to charge money for something in a game you develop?

[@theruder9]

I've seen other players from the CN server talk about the PVP, and had no problem admitting it was P2W. My understanding ; There is a 'balanced' PVP mode, and also a mode that cares about how much money you've put in, the 'balanced' one has issues because, obviously the game will have metas, and you won't always have the best skills, it'd be like playing Street Fighter but you only have access to Ryu and Ken online. There is a skill element to it, and you can absolutely beat people with better stuff whilst you only have garbage, but there's definitely an imbalance there.

[@angelomagtoto2797]

That's the thing, you only need one copy of that weapon to compete in balanced PVP mode instead of 6. And the PVP mode that is P2W is when you spar agaisnt someone in the open-world, which doesn't give rewards let alone be part of the rankings.

[@Minderz]

@@angelomagtoto2797 You still need to get that weapon though. And while you get showered with free rolls (at least early on in the game) you're still a victim of RNG. So unless the guaranteed rolls are the meta you might very well be at a disadvantage.

[@angelomagtoto2797]

@@Minderz That's correct, RNG still plays it role and since you need at least 1 copy, that makes it P2W. However, the thing is, that PVP isn't the only PVP in that game. There is a Battle Royale, which requires pure skills. So to say that TOF is P2W isn't right, and isn't wrong either. It's both P2W and F2P, and people can't understand that because they have to choose one just to hate on it.

[@Minderz]

@@angelomagtoto2797 That comes back to another comment I made somewhere as a reply to another comment. In the end what is P2W depends on what you considering winning.

[@angelomagtoto2797]

@@Minderz Well, that is true. If it they deem TOF as P2W and they hate P2W, can't they just uninstall and leave the game alone? Why do they have to make a drama out of it and call it information? Idk man, people are weird.

[@peterbabicki8252]

Genshin has what I call cosmetic power. You can become more powerful by spending a ton of money, but there's nothing to use that power on. There's no PvP and the end-game content is easily doable F2P.

[@mehanna-2363]

Its the same, genshin is pve game and it has coop play same as tower of fantasy has pve that if u spend ull be only better in killing monsters faster, but regarding pvp that genshin doesnt offer while ToF has it super balanced, you weapon will be at 6 stars regarding how muh u spend on the game, no one have advantage.

[@reizero246]

@@mehanna-2363 4 from top 5 best units on Genshin are 4 star characters. PVE is pretty stupid in that game, because the enemies augment their HP x4, when its probably some guy will go with a shielder or healer who makes less damage. So PVE is much slower than playing alone. The one who get advantage on PVE is people who has a pretty weak account, because the others will carry him the content. Whales or even good F2P accounts will waste time using PVE instead playing alone. Besides genshin is based on a reaction synergy system. For example, applying hydro (water) first and using a pyro hit after will vape the hit multiplying its damage per 1.5. That is pretty easy to do playing alone because there are support units made for that task. On PVE reactions are fucked because its impossible to sync people and skills. Genshin is a single player game with a some online options. People who put money its because auto satisfaction to get more powerful characters, but no impact in the game, because you can get the most hard difficulty content in the game with a full group 4 C0 star units with F2P weapons and get even better times some people who put money on weaker or unbalanced 5 star units.

[@leila13dnd]

@@mehanna-2363 except PVP is not actually balanced because if limited characters/weapons become meta and you don't have them, you automatically have a disadvantage and can do nothing about it.

[@xblade11230]

@@mehanna-2363 lol it's not balanced at all there are limited banners, so f2p players won't have the weapons from them Also there are team raids where whales will carry hard while f2p raid squads will get wiped out

[@peterbabicki8252]

@exquirentibus veritatem People have different definitions of what pay to win means. I have no issue calling Genshin pay to win - so long as people realise that: No content is locked behind a paywall, aside from 5 4 star weapons, and 5 cosmetic character skins. Everything else can be obtained without spending a penny. You don't even need to purchase the game to do everything there is to do, obtain all the achievements, complete the entire story, and clear the end-game. Unlocking the full potential of the four star characters can be easily done with a free to play account, and while time consuming, unlocking the full potential of a 5 star character is doable. Again, no issue calling it pay to win. Though if you're going to throw Genshin into that category, you might as well throw World of Warcraft in too.

[@MantismanTM]

Asmongold, you help me get through tough days, your content is entertaining with crumbs of real wtf intellectual moments, I'm on the last 2hrs of a 16hr shift today, I'm a manufacturer, when all the workers have gone home I like to just put on 1 of your long a$$ videos on my phone then blue tooth it to the buildings speakers, crank the volume to lvl 11 and listen & laugh while I continue the grind.

[@digestiveissue7710]

That's autistic, man.

[@palmtree5489]

That was beautiful to read.

[@fingermi7571]

Agree 10000 percent! Asmongold, I wish I'd thought of writing this very comment from the OP. Thanks dude!

[@fuyu1259]

okay

[@lostz666]

This is the guy who made a video about how diablo immortal wasn’t pay to win . Biggest clown

[@keyblitz_]

I can't believe people can look at a modern-day video game, singleplayer or multiplayer, that contains gacha elements, and unironically ask with a straight face "gee can you pay money to get an advantage in this? Surely the publishers behind this title aren't *that* greedy, no they're going to let the developers make it fair for all because that's definitely profitable!"

[@aylanamikio5912]

not exactly fair, but people spend shit loads of money on even the worst characters in the game just coz they are cute(waifu over meta) so these games probably can actually make it quite fair without losing too much profit

[@keyblitz_]

@@aylanamikio5912 why would they, when they can eternally churn out meta-changing powercreep waifu units and kill two birds with one stone. Or rather spear two whales with one harpoon.

[@keyblitz_]

@@Sorrowdusk Most mobile gachas might as well be singleplayer games with how little multiplayer elements they feature

[@DKrothy]

@@Sorrowdusk Xenoblade Chronicles 2. (Good game, TERRIBLE system)

[@someinternetguyiguess5068]

I'll be honest, the PvE in this kind of game is always easy enough that while it can be made easier through the expenditure of money, only someone 8 years of age or younger will ever need that kind of boost to clear all of the content. For most players, these games are fun in the beginning, with exciting new content such as an interesting world and enemies. However, they soon devolve into grinding constantly in an attempt to raise meaningless numbers which represent damage. A game becomes far less fun and enjoyable at this point. Spending money to get stronger in the game accelerates the rate at which one approaches this state. In conclusion, I feel that it isn't Pay-to-Win, but rather Pay-to-Lose.

[@moafishing5654]

Everyone is entitled to play as they want and they can spend 0 or millions in a game if they want. Stop judging people based on your own experience. People who spend money also have fun. These kind of games are made for everyone and everyone enjoys them in their own way.

[@someinternetguyiguess5068]

@@moafishing5654 When did I judge anyone based on my experience? I just said that only 8-year-olds and younger will ever actually need to pay to win gacha games. I have played plenty of them and recognize the pattern of their power scaling and growth. Knowing what I do about them, I can confidently say that anyone who genuinely needs to pay money to succeed in a gacha game is genuinely not smart enough or old enough to grasp the most basic of their game mechanics. Edit: In hindsight, I by definition did judge others by my own experience. However, what else am I supposed to do? Start a survey? I don't have an audience.

[@moafishing5654]

@@someinternetguyiguess5068 Gacha games or not, usually in any other mobile game like this, people spend so they can progress faster without having to grind. I personally love to grind and still i pay in mobile games because I just can. I have the privilege to afford this comfort. What does game mechanics have to do with the decision of paying? If I want a specific hero to summon, yes I am paying so I can have it now, instead of waiting until its added later for everyone. This doesnt have anything to do with game mechanics or anyone else. If I want something is because I want it. Fair and square. Not everyone has time for the long grind as I have or others. Some just want to clear out content without investing time. Whats wrong with that? So, like I said, everyone is entitled to play their game as they want. Paying or not.

[@someinternetguyiguess5068]

@@moafishing5654 Basically the entirety of gacha games' content is grinding. Spending money to take away "content" doesn't sound like a good thing for anyone's game experience.

[@alport1331]

The thing with having a determined level cap for weapons and characters for PVP is that when the meta is defined, players will seek after for those meta weapons. And the likeliness of meta changes increases as new characters/weapons are introduced, so they'll likely have to keep on summoning for those new meta characters/weapons to keep being competitive. Some might argue that skills are important but it can only take them so far until they're matched with someone with equal skill level but using a current meta weapon.

[@lionart5230]

If there is rock-paper-scissor system or overall balance around numbers and utility can be mixed, there doesn't need to be a meta, it can be matter of preference. Otherwise it's matter of balance. Meta is not a bad thing as long as they shake things up and do meaningful balance changes once in a while.

[@alport1331]

@@lionart5230 Meta isn't bad since it's a natural occurrence once everything in the current status of the game is thoroughly analyzed and tested and see what works and what isn't. Preference isn't a problem, but to be stay competitive you have to opt into the meta play or you'll be edged out by players with same skill level who does play by meta. Unless you play arena for fun, you shouldn't expect much to be up there in the leaderboard.

[@Le_Crook]

@@alport1331 If they do it Like League of legends where they releases balance patches every month, then it can have an economy that meta will always rotate towards the weapon that gets buff at that time, then next patch is nerf for that meta weapon. Or something like counters and such, or ban system. Ban system would be really good, like each player can ban 1 weapon that they hate.

[@alport1331]

@@Le_Crook That's a good idea, but the drawback is that if you have no second best option then you're out of luck. And the point is you're likely to summon on banners that have the current best to keep up in PvP. They can see your profile and weapon too so that doesn't help your case.

[@lionart5230]

@@alport1331 I agree and this is what I meant by matter of balance. Changing the meta mixes things up as it needs player to learn other thing, adapt to these changes. Also I disagree it's always meta that's most important. I watched league since it literally started as e-sport in like preseason or season 1. I watched it evolving, patches changing things up, champions, items, runes being changed, reworked, removed. There is much more to victory than meta and skill is not a number. People are making mistakes, they can be surprised, tricked. They can face unknown and be unprepared for what they are facing. Unless balance is out of the window and basic principles, framework doesn't work, meta is never only answer. If you know League then you know what I am talking about. Each season there was always something surprising happening, champion nobody plays making appearance, strange itemization. If there is a lot of room to play around and changes will be happening quite frequently, meta will not be solved.

[@TheDevilsAdvocate.]

That guy is delusional, he’s almost a propagandist. “Spending money in gatcha games is fun and exciting”. Excuse me, what? Imagine how broken you’d have to be to say that sentence and truly believe it. It literally is an illness if you ask me, literally like a drug addict.

[@SirGrimly]

Gacha is inherently pay to win by the nature of the random odds for you to roll better characters (or weapons in the case of this game)... which you can increase your chances of getting what you want by buying the currency needed to make the rolls Think getting legendary gems in Diablo Immortal but without the legal loophole that was greater rifts.

[@swordyshield]

technically a game can be "p2w" as in you progress faster in gacha but still not truly p2w as someone who pays 0 can easily get to the end game and (if the game even has pvp) participate in PVP to a high level because the game gives you enough resources. epic seven is a mobile gacha I used to play which is very very f2p as long as you actively play. Of course naturally people who pay will still have an advantage that is almost always going to happen but it's still very very possible to get to the highest without paying.

[@SirGrimly]

@@ereder1476 Just checked, Langrisser has rarities.... meaning the better units are going to be at the highest rarities (a common gacha tactic) and even if they aren't... the fact that there is no guarantee you will get the best characters (because of the gacha mechanics) and can still increase your odds by paying for currency to roll more (mobile game standard), it is pay to win. The only game I know that is gacha while not being pay to win is Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and that was only because you cannot spend money to get more core crystals and it is a traditional JRPG with Gacha elements... not a gacha game.

[@SirGrimly]

@@swordyshield I don't know how many people can enter an Asmon video and say that... when Asmon has stated time and time again that Pay to progress is pay to win. The fact that you are paying money to accelerate character progression (a core pillar of MMO/RPG design) is pay to win.

[@Mithguar]

@@SirGrimly You can only P2W in games in which you can win. Take Genshin Impact. Paying more money there doesn't make you "Win". You just skip your game time. Game is designed to be casual and played mostly solo. You can get more characters or weapons but all of it is just flavour. No matter how much money you spend, you won't "Win" in Genshin Impact. I would argue that you actually lose if you whale in Genshin so it's Pay to lose, considering how many people regret whaling in Genshin while game is still fun, story is good and world interesting. So Genshin Impact, while being Gatcha, it's actually Pay to Lose xD

[@swordyshield]

@@SirGrimly it kind of does matter if you view p2w as p2progress or pay to win. Back when I played epic seven(a gacha game) I made it to top 100 in PVP and was in the rank #3 guild, I never spent any money. People spent much much more and were still vastly worse than me. So clearly they cannot pay to win as I am winning. Now they can pay to progress faster yes but I don't see the issue in that as long as you can actually compete/do all the stuff the game has to offer as a f2p player without needing to spend like triple the time

[@FatalityPWN]

Played a bit of ToF and I gotta say it feels really unfinished and rough in some areas compared to Genshin where everything is a lot more polished to a dime in how it plays and presents itself. Hopefully it get's better with time.

[@TacticalDimples]

That’s what it seems like at first glance.

[@DiscountYT]

i agree, but i appreciate the freedom tof provides over genshin so far in terms of combat expression and traversal/general movement systems. being able to air-dash, actually air-combo, and perfect dodge has made the combat far more fun to play imo. and you’re also not just incentivized to switch weapons for big numbers, but for cool attacks, juggles, and just genuinely for the fun of it. i hope they polish the presentation so that people don’t get turned away from what i think is just generally better gameplay fullstop. it’s not perfect by any means but it def surpasses genshin. tldr i agree but tof gameplay is better

[@victordelacruz4449]

Genshin is stingy AF with rewards tho. Its mandatory u buy welkin every month to even have a chance at pulling heroes with their sig weaps. Thats my main problem with this game

[@myr5045]

I agree, but at least it doesn't have sloppy attack mechanics

[@leila13dnd]

@@victordelacruz4449 it's widely known you should never pull on weapon banner, the pity is shit. I agree that Genshin is very stingy with f2p rewards, I did the math on it and it's really not good. I don't think that ToF giving out more rewards than Genshin is a plus for the game though, simply because being better than shit doesn't mean you're good. They're both Gacha games. Gacha sucks either way and is meant to take your money. Now having said that, as a f2p in Genshin you simply should not expect to be able to get a limited banner character within that banner if you have not been saving up beforehand. Getting a 5 star limited weapon without money when you only start saving within that banner is impossible. Without event rewards you need to save at least 2 banners ahead to have enough to reach the 90 pity.

[@derago-dev]

The pitty not reseting when you get a SSR is a huge thing, it might not be "good" for other kinds of games, but for a gacha game, it's crazy good

[@Mike_Dubayou]

Do you also play slot machines that give "endless" free rolls. It might seem good, but I promise the overall % payouts is the same. Its not any better, its just mixing statistics up enough so people think its good. Like free rolls on slot machines.

[@derago-dev]

@@Mike_Dubayou It's not the same when the game itself gives you content to clear in order to get rolls... I'm talking from experience here, if you like the content in the game, you can just play it and you'll earn enough for more than the pity in rolls. I'm not saying its morally good or anything like that, i'm just comparing it to genshin, simple as that...

[@RogunK]

The fact that first guy was smirking and almost chuckling whenever he said it wasn't pay to win or that you could still do really well without spending money, made me think twice about this. Plus, he kept saying that he loved spending money on these kinds of games and that it was fun to spend his money.......

[@keselekbakiak]

So the average of my guildmate was around 8k, but the highest cs in my server is 11k. Despite the timegate, it is definitely pay2win.

[@LegionzGaming91]

Holy Shit "MOM ASMONDGOLD REACTED TO MY VIDEO" Love you and your content Asmond. Thanks for all the love.

[@lyconxero457]

Regardless of how attractive these games may look to me I have to avoid them like the plague because they are way too complicated and I feel like I would fall down a rabbit hole of spending that I honestly can't afford just to keep enjoying the game.

[@mr.clymate7489]

@@JayceCH. you are absolutely right it is actually so shameless because even if you look at the UI of these games, it mirrors those phone mmos that were popular for a time that slowly became less popular because of ads and shop. These games literally make it impossible to fully enjoy the game, furthermore this game looks like grab. I'm sorry but I come from days when games like Gunz, S4 even the 2d games like Maple and Latale gave a sht about the game they were making. I remember being excited for MMOs like this because of Elsword, but the Genshin formula has tainted this genre and I will never play this crap. Wait 3-4 months after player base is going to tank it always does. The sad thing is the gacha system makes it that these companies gain way more profit for just having the game up. Why is it that you can do more things in RuneScape or the combat or maplestory or even Dragon Nest looks better than this copy paste crap.

[@simmerke1111]

Game isn't that enjoyable. Just a bunch of cinematics and some janky combat. Mostly cinematics though... You'd be better off watching some anime for the time you'd spend on it. At least those spend about 25 minutes on their writing.

[@Draeckon]

@@JayceCH. Dunno why you have this pessimistic view of FGO. I'm a scrub with servants that aren't higher than 60 right now and have friended at least half a dozen high-level (100+) players I use for tough content. I've never met these people, never spoken to any of them and probably never will, yet I've never had any trouble friending them.

[@skybattler2624]

@@JayceCH. I think it really depends on the servers you are playing. CN, JA, and SEA servers are more accommodating than NA and EU servers. Toxic players do exist, but they are nowhere near as that in the western ones. Maybe because Asia has the concept of 'working together for a common goal' more ingrained than in the west.

[@04liverydesign7]

JayC you my friend have the most realistic comment about this mess of gacha, yes the communities are all like that, defending the same fucking viewpoint, game is "generous", ohh yeah generosity behind a bunch of pop up windows asking you to spend thousands just for pixels, daily tasks with the sile purpose of creating a FOMO in your head so you check in daily and feel happy about that little progress you made, having the sensation that one day you will achieve success in the game having your main character maxed up, yeah maybe "one day", all of them psicological traps the story is good, worth giving it a look comon i can get a good story from a book for way less and with just a one time purchase, instead of paying just to be able to read a small fragment of a whole neverending story, and having to pay again just to read it fully game is f2p you just have to play, you dont need every character yeah but even a single character requires a lot of progress and a lot of fucking time just to give it a small boost of power every few months i wonder in what point of our existence we gave so much importance to things that does not even exist, and we threw our life and our hard earned resources just to let those things tell us we need them just to be happy with our damn life? in the past you could finish a game and continue with your life, nowadays games like these demands attention from you every fucking day, like a toxic individual with needs, there is psicological traps everywhere in these games no matter where you look, and they abuse of certain traumas and addictions that many people have but are not aware of them at all.

[@danid2408]

I feel like, this is one of the reasons why when playing a gacha game you totally NEED to have a goal in mind, a good reason to play it, gameplay, characters, lore or the gacha itself, otherwise they just devour you completely into their own goals, which is you spending money af, thats it...

[@JohnDoe-ug3su]

Asian guy : explains the odds, pity system and actually say its p2w Bald guy : its not p2w, i dont have to explain shit

[@siddhantdeepful]

Man i remember telling people that a new character was an example of power creep in genshin and everyone and their dog were like "It Doesn't have PVP and you can get to same strength as F2P if you have optimal gear". This made me realise that these people don't consider their personal time a resource which get used up.

[@leila13dnd]

Oh gods yes. Which character was it? We have had so many power creeps. And the good gear part kills me. Yeah right, as if you can actually get that without spending 100 years on farming.

[@xblade11230]

The entire game genshin and all its contents are complete able as a f2p without any sort of grinding There is no pvp, and even whatever raids they had have been easily solvable by a f2p So yeah it's not a pay to win game, it's pay to unlock additional dlc characters and weapons

[@zhongli2825]

@@xblade11230 Its true.I am at Ar57 and I didn't spend any money.The game is meant to be casual from the start and don't need to grind at all.

[@joshromero1796]

@@xblade11230 only spend money on welkin worst part of Genshin for me at least is artifact grinding it’s so goddamn tedious I’m still trying to get a complete VV set for my kazuha and it’s been weeks since I got him rip

[@Balbaneth]

Since when is a single player narrative driven open world adventure that has zero competition in it. P2W?

[@jaimiefuller2032]

I can kinda understand why people would say that if the only advantage you gain from paying is within the realm of PvE then it's not really P2W. In all honestly if it doesn't effect PvP at all, then I do have to agree with that view, the problem being that one of at least two things will happen. 1: PvE will somehow become competitive with rewards that can't be farmed elsewhere, effectively locking out F2P accounts 2: PvE content progression will give bonuses/stats for PvP (tying into point 1), or there will be some kind of mechanic tied into a battle pass which gives an advantage for PvP like increased chance for rare drops or wider range of weapons/skills.

[@tot.musica]

I don't see the first one happening at all, but the second one? Yeah, it wouldn't be the first game of its genre to incorporate that. I hate when companies do that shit. Hopefully it just stays as a good f2p friendly game with the option of paying to speed you on your way and doesn't effect PVP.

[@jordanleach4060]

The guys video explaining the summons is so hectic and all over the place. Volkin explains this so much better, and clearer. Recommend checking him out if you want a better explanation.

[@bigpeeg]

the guy you speak of has english as a second language. gotta give him credit for that alone

[@jordanleach4060]

@@bigpeeg oh I am not knocking his language skills. Dude knows more languages than me and it's impressive. But this felt more like he didn't plan out the video as well before filming, having some sort of loose script to go off of.

[@GameIsMyOxygen]

Played ToF since it released, and I can vouch that its DEFINITELY pay to win. If you are coming here with the intention to decide whether to play this game or not as a F2P, then my answer to you is, its definitely pay to win, and youre gonna struggle alot trying to get quite alot of stuff. The characters like genshin impact are gacha and even though ToF is very generous in that regard, you will soon use up your free gacha and get stuck with the team you started with. This is because by the time theres better weapons, you'd have already invested a good amount into your current weapons, and would have no way to get the better ones. You'll be struggling to rank up your weapons (like constellations in genshin impact), you'll have a hard time tryna upgrade them, and you will definitely be carried by EVERY random whale you encounter. This is because whales most of the time have fully upgraded gear and therefore they simply crush the pve in team minigames. Your existence wouldn't matter cuz the whale could persevere regardless. (For example, the whale does 1000 damage while i do 200, so yeah money definitely talks). If you have good luck then you'll get some good gear, but soon they will be powercrept (and have already been powercrept in the CN version of the game), and your shiz won't be as good anymore. So initially, you'd be like me who thought Tower of fantasy is not pay to win, cuz they are so generous, but soon as you keep playing, you will realize the kind of mind game they have played on ya. These gacha games are rarely free to play and I learnt my lesson the hard way, by investing a shizton of time in it. Hopefully you take a wiser decision than me.

[@daemok4752]

it's not really called a pity system if it doesn't reset when you get the best prize before being maxed, that changes the name to "bonus" just saying

[@JobberJerry]

The fact he said its exciting and he has alot of fun spending thousands of dollars on game is completely insane. Asmond dont let Rich play this 😆

[@Anonymous-mp2ln]

Quickest way to see if a game is pay to win is to watch how many hoops someone jumps through to claim otherwise. It's the same mental gymnastics every time.

[@TheBADProductions]

they hired psychiatrists to develop hellblade: senua's sacrifice. it was to ensure the mental conditions shown in game were accurate yet also not pandering

[@TheBADProductions]

@@Sorrowdusk they even actually consulted with people who suffered with the mental disabilities touched on in the game to have their perspective shown

[@cookiesrus7681]

I might be digging up some old dirt, but this reminds me all to much of the Warframe is the best F2P game argument. I've been playing since 2013 and have racked up quite a bit of playtime and have seen the game change over many updates. TLDR of my thoughts: Even if its PVE nothing can justify most resources, frames and weapons being purchased through premium currency. If you missed an event it can be bought later from an NPC using items that can be bought from other players using through premium currency. You can buy boosters to increase your drop chances for in-game loot by 4. Cosmetics are great. Hell I can understand boosters back when raids guaranteed you got one each night. However I feel that the game has fallen into bad practices where it easier to give daily missions, daily logins, and stream drops to keep their playerbase from coming back rather than setting the bar higher. I have a lot of respect for DE and I'm sad to see they passed up something like the Amazing Eternals when in-game bugs have become a normality and Warframe's pvp mode has been seemingly abandoned. There's a famous story where DE removed a feature for rerolling pet's features using premium currency. It is supposed to make you feel better that they removed the feature after the found a user spending an ungodly amount to get the rarest fur pattern. Its scary to me that they only pull-back when their pseudo-random rewards mimic a slot machine but don't bat an eye when the same systems are used when someone's time is being used as payment. Creating addictive log-in reward systems that will be eventually be paid for when the next premium pack is released. Im looking forwards towards their new game they recently announced, but I will be genuinely sad if it turns onto the monetary train of open world mmorgp.

[@infinitegaming2884]

I think people should just pay for the story and not for the weapons. Armaments could only be gained or acquired if you put time on the game and defeated a boss or something. That's what makes it special and more rewarding.

[@PAJARIN999]

I would kinda disagree on that. The story being paywalled. Yeah, sure, that ain’t gonna backfire. How about story locked bosses? Should I also pay up to fight them? How about story locked utility items? Point is, that sound like a very convenient way to lock out F2P players from high leveled stuff.

[@warmpereer65]

you mean like destiny 2 dlcs?

[@wellwellwell881]

@@PAJARIN999 Yes. And F2P players need to learn that you can't have everything for free. At some point you have to pay for the product you are using. Switching the payment model is a different story. It really has to start from the get-go. F2P players have gotten too entitled. Complaining about paying for story is like saying you deserve books for free. Authors just live to please you, and all their work gets no reward.

[@PAJARIN999]

@@wellwellwell881 Okay, I may have missed a detail on what I was trying to say is. Look, I am cool with us paying for the story. But how will the creators make us pay for it? Will it be per chapter? Will it be like a subscription? How will it affect our character progression if we say... like have no current funds to get into the latest chapter? Will it hinder us in the events or so if we like don't have specific chapter of the story done? Look, its a fresh out of the over game. Call me entitled F2P player but it concerns me on how the game will grow. And I can't help be a skeptic when someone says that the game's story will become the barrier between all players in an MMORPG.

[@swampmonster1019]

Forget spending money to win, I'll settle for spending money on actual functioning controller support. Its sad when I have to log on through my phone because certain menus can't be accessed on the pc client, which clearly had zero testing done on it.

[@TURBONERD]

The viewable, non-resetting pity system on the surface seems better, but is actually more predatory; it relies entirely on sunk-cost by normalizing pulling until you can collect pity rewards: Imagine it the same as having $5.99 cosmetics, but you can only top up $5 or $10 -- You will have leftover pity tokens if you get the weapon or character that you want in paid pulls, therefore making it easier to entice players into more pulls because "Oh, my global pity pull is incoming so it'll be cheaper than last time if I get bad luck" - not realizing they're not actually being offered any extra value for their money; it's likely tightly tuned to whatever the designers have deemed an effective balance of perceived value for the player and profit for them. At this point why not just sell cosmetics? Because statistical deviation over an entire playerbase will always be in favor of higher than average prices in pulls over a standard, one-off purchase. Having a resetting and invisible pity system puts the player at a comparative, obvious disadvantage when starting a new character/event pull after getting a legendary, so they're less likely to continue at all because of a perceived lack of value overall: Can't keep certain players pulling without exploiting sunk-cost.

[@TheClargest]

From someone who plays a lot of Gacha games, this is one of the most generous gacha pity systems I've seen. 80 pull to guarantee a 5 star, Pity does NOT reset, you can use the currency per pull to buy duplicates of any weapon. It's pretty generous. Compared to Genshin, it's way better. However, this is still comparing shitty Gacha systems. Saying it's the best trash can only be taken as so much of a compliment.

[@joshh390]

Just why? If dopamine is your thing then just go to a casino… if young Asian women are your thing then try therapy lol. It’s literally called got ya games and people use the word generous like that means anything.

[@emerlance]

I never spend money in gacha game for 6 years+ and still able to enjoy everything that i played so far, tof seems to be one of the best in terms of gacha generosity alongside game like Granblue Fantasy, Counter Side, Punishing Gray Raven and Guardian Tales. I've been playing some MMO with lootbox and while i compare it with some of my gacha game, they seems to be have more of dogshit rate than i imagine

[@thenightshiftginger8701]

is it more friendly than cookie run kingdom is the question

[@rajendradiaz2308]

Yeah but,it still p2w tho

[@emerlance]

@@rajendradiaz2308 i'm actually a top ranker on the one of those game i mention as an f2p is that count? Of course not im just that good, it still p2w anyway right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@donimmortal7692]

I am sure that some starved children in Africa can find happiness in life as well

[@baddog9188]

There is an alternative you know. Don't play dogshit games.

[@dustinbaugh601]

I hate having to pay for anything in the modern day because the value is not there. My favorite game was Final Fantasy XI which is a subscription based game that also to this day does not feature a cash shop. The value was there, sure I had to buy the game, the expansions, and pay my monthly subscription but they sell the game with all the expansions included for about the price of a game (i'm sure it's cheaper now that the game is about 20 years old) and the subscription was anywhere from I think $10/mo to $15/mo depending on how many additional character slots you choose to pay for as well as account wide storage perks. I think the way they broke that down was like .50 cents or $1 per additional character and $1 or $2 dollars for the extra storage. Now you could still exceed that if for example you wanted to play multiple characters at the same time you would need 2 seperate accounts but even then if I were to say have 2 accounts with 2 characters each and additional storage on both my monthly cost would be about $26 bucks or so which would be about $312 per year which is SUBSTANTIALY LESS than what you would need to spend on any given single day to have a similar "premium" experience with basically any mmo or live service game that has released in the past 5-10 years. Some of you might think well why might I want to have 2 seperate accounts in the first place? You don't need to right? No you don't need to and in fact it is quite excessive and also challenging to manage 2 accounts simultaneously in a battle. However some people like to challenge themselves, also there is the added benefit if you have a high level healer on 1 account to help power level the other account along with anyone else in that party. If you only want 1 character/account and added storage though you would be looking at half that yearly cost which is about $156 which is only about 1 $99 MTX and 1 $49.99 MTX in any other game (which is about what you would need to spend to have a real chance to get anything you want in a modern game on any given day, although as time goes on that goal post is getting pushed more and more meaning you still may not get what you are looking for). In FFXI the only paywall is just remembering to pay your bill, everyone has the same game experience. There are ways to increase drop rates and experience gains but they are not locked behind paywalls, there are just natural things in the game itself you can do to maximise the rewards of your time spent in the game. For instance changing either your main job or your sub job to thief will help increase drop rates in addition to gil drops not to mention there are plenty of additional things you can do to further boost that. Thief is one of the original 6 starting jobs that every single player has access to without needing to complete a specific quest in order to unlock. There are an additional 16 or so jobs that can be unlocked throughout the game as you play through it (not pay through it). There are also 119 different trusts which are basically summonable party members which you can also unlock throughout your play through (not pay through). There are no paid mounts, you just have chocobos which are not whored out for cash but rather a natural in game feature and a quest line that allows the player to raise a chocobo of their own instead of renting them for a short period of time for gil. The community is great, not a brainwashed sespool of people defending predatory monetization practices...just sayin'. If your thought is "but I don't have money to spend on a pc to then play a subscription based game" I encourage you to just sit down and do the math, if you need to go to the bank and have them print out your bank statements for the past year or so then do that. You may just find that if you stopped playing games on your phone that you could infact afford to buy or build a pc... and remember this game is 20 years old so you do not need the latest greatest parts by any means to play it because it used to be playable on the ps2 which is not very advanced hardware these days. Infact I suspect it may be near impossible to find a pc build incapable of rendering ffxi these days.

[@RickardLejonhjarta]

"the pity system in tower of fantasy is pretty good" bro its called a Pity System

[@Monkeyswheelchair]

you peasants need to give us more money

[@Ryanflees]

Generally the in-app-purchase has 3 directions. 1, sell non-obtainable numeric data (like make your status get higher , become more powerful which can only be obtained from buying it) 2, sell time, by which means the player can grind their data from farming, daily quest. As long as you spend time in the game, you will eventually obtained all the data. But the game also sell them in the store, like to spend a few dollars will save you a week's time, so a lot people would choose to pay it to save time. So in a way, you're buying time. Sometimes players don't feel it's p2w because these data can also be achieved from farming as well. But it still depends on how grinding the game is. 3, sell skins So usually when we talk about p2w , we talk about the 1st one and 2nd one with heavy grinding requires infinite time.

[@rajendradiaz2308]

Not "we", people that okay with number 2 as not p2w definition is just... Idk... Bamboozled by people or what.

[@XeviousGG]

So one of the important features of this game is that the game is shared open world but we have seen 0 of that so far

[@Pyropankake455]

its out now. you can just open it up and see it

[@luigim2209]

It is open world xd but you prefer to just keep saying the same shiet and dont even try it

[@XeviousGG]

@@luigim2209 proof that I keep saying the same shit? I only said this once. Also, there had been no videos up until game launch from my knowledge that showcased the multi-player gameplay. Bozo

[@darken_death0129]

Tower of fantasy has the advantage of PVP over immortal in tof you have to gain ranks by being skilled at your character's builds versus immortal where you can buy your rank basically nothing is nerfed or balanced you don't have to be skilled with a character as long as you have high rank gear I wish she can buy or gamble for

[@genus5987]

Damnit, the stats you and your opponent is scaled so dont be scared and also if you lose you will not lose anythin WHY DAFUQ YALL SCARED IN PVP WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE?

[@CaptainPudding]

Game: *is a gacha* "it's pay 2 win" Everyone: *surprised pikachu face*

[@ChopperFromHell]

That baldy wasn't the guy defending Diablo Inmortal some weeks ago ?

[@redeyes3847]

He definitely looks like the kind of guy that would be excited about spending money on anime girls lmao

[@kouxiatou443]

I hate it when people say something isnt pay to win because pvp is balanced or will eventually balance itself out. Pay to win isnt just about pvp.

[@aminoacid6177]

Yeah it's pay to win.... My enjoyment would be destroying whales as f2p in this game

[@jonathanlee4324]

Smash them whales in PVP arena. Money will only go so far there 😏

[@venusdied6452]

nah you can still beat them Good luck on that

[@gslang3489]

If items that are covetable or envy stroking by many can be obtained easier via Cash, it's p2w. Winning isn't restricted to pvp and scores in mmos.

[@JR-kv6ez]

Sorry, but no. There are no winners or losers in PVE. If you pay your way to all the best gear, it doesn't mean I lost. Therefore, you didn't win.

[@rajendradiaz2308]

@@JR-kv6ez you are wrong but that's okay

[@JR-kv6ez]

@@rajendradiaz2308 you are wrong but that's okay

[@rajendradiaz2308]

@@JR-kv6ez its okay to be dumb, not everyone can be smart. Live by just copying others is okay

[@JR-kv6ez]

@@rajendradiaz2308 its okay to be dumb, not everyone can be smart. Live by just copying others is okay

[@jsonthefallen5218]

In my opinion, is "pay to make the game a joke" 😅🤷🏻‍♂️

[@IndraDaka]

PVP duels for this game at least could be P2W but there's actually a high chance a F2P player can come out on top sololy based on skill. This might change later but essentially, the game gives you enough opportunities that if you explore and manage your resources, you will get enough resources to participate in the gacha to the point you will get all the weapons unless the game really really really hates you. Once you have all the weapons no matter the stars on it, its an even playing field as one of the videos shown explained that in PVP all weapons are maxed out to max stars. Combined with the store for limited banners having a shop of max 120 tries to get the weapon, you are basically guaranteed to get the limited weapon everytime. I for one am F2P and I have but all two weapons that I don't have and they mostly aren't even the meta for PVP so im basically all set. Not only am I only missing two, but I have gotten a lot of dupes a long the way. Am I just the lucky one? I really don't think so. I have a few friends who play with me as F2P as they are in similar situations that I explained. I know this means nothing at all, but I generally find myself not in the good graces of gacha so the fact I got this far as F2P makes me think arguably one could say the P2W aspect in PVP is close to null. My definition of what P2W might be a little skewed from the norm but to me, P2W is when a F2P player can be the most skilled player with mechanics but no matter what they do, the whale always wins.

[@blazers4life994]

Game isn’t as good as it looks, already uninstalled. It’s so clunky and it plays like it was rushed. You can tell their was no love put into this game. It is not better than Genshin, not even close.

[@uch1hasxrasa]

Yeah lol the beta looked good but the release is shit

[@blazers4life994]

@@uch1hasxrasa Yeah took me 2 hours to even get into a server, all that wait for this dumpster fire.

[@uch1hasxrasa]

@@blazers4life994 fr

[@dennyc4153]

i didnt pass the tutorial...i cant stand the graphic lol..back to the golden apple archipelago i go

[@echoesofmalachor3700]

@@symphonixblades I hope you’re getting paid for these comments.

[@ayemjake]

My takeaway from this is that small spenders have a shot in Ranked PVP. Ngl I haven't spent a dime and I was surprised thatthe SSR drops have very high chance to drop. If you are a small spender then the likelihood of you getting access to multitude of characters is very high, and as long as you get access to meta characters then you can compete in the leaderboards since the system forces all players to fight on equal footing by disregarding equipment and giving you all the equal weapon stats. - As for PVE, well I have mixed opinions about it, I mean it's P2W yeah, but at the same time PVE doesn't have leaderboards so I don't think it matters.. all it does is it makes the PVE easier for the whales.

[@charlesharalson487]

I agree (this is now 3w since your comment). I play mobile and am currently max as of today (level 60 waiting for further story releases). My combat score is 17.5k and growing. I have 5 SSRs. Meryl at 3 star, Zero at 3 star, Tsubasa at 1 star, Huma, and King. Though I am lacking weapon upgrades (I only have two SSR matrices). My best weapons are currently sitting at level 100s and I am upgrading evenly. Equipment only matters in PVE and are disregarded in PVP. In PVE content I am definitely restricted to being carried as I attempt to unlock better matrices, and gear for the PVE content. Including leveling them up. Bygone Phantasm is a mode where you can play unlimited rounds to collect resources that level equipment. I eventually brick wall until I level up more. You can gather a somewhat limited amount of free nucleus around the map. That gets you plenty pulls and hopefully you get lucky for your build. However once exhausted you will be limited to waiting for further map additions or weekly/daily tasks that provide nucleus rewards or using in-game currency (not the purchased kind) to purchase the nucleus from special shops. In short, PVE will become a brick wall where you need carried. However, $10 gets you a battlepass which helps you catch up somewhat to “whales” each season. PVP can also become a brick wall as you will only get so far in ranking before you keep hitting opponents that simply have better builds. Even with “fair matching”. You simply cannot climb pass a certain rank depending on your strength unless you are seriously better than your opponent. (Example: My above weapons versus someone with all 5 stars weapons because there is no one else closer to match me in my current rank). I am limited to fight godly opponents with skill and still face one mistake getting me squashed or winning to climb. Odds are against you. Is the game P2W? Depends on why you play. Leaderboards? Hell yeah it’s P2W. If you are F2P or small spender like me (I only purchased standard battle pass) you can still have fun, but your grind is harder, and you still benefit from being carried at times (special operations). One last mention. There are certain pieces of content that recommend like 50k combat score. I can complete these things with lots of sweat and perfect gameplay. One or two mistakes and I must restart (especially Lairs which help upgrade suppressor and relics which help you a LOT in any combat). So… if you have more time than a whale. You can grind and compete to the extent of availability versus a whale. That being said, a whale will always be 10 steps ahead. I’d say with this game - $20 a week will probably keep you up to par if you invest 4+ hours daily, without missing a beat. Oh yeah! Getting new characters? You’re going to need money, especially if your main focus is keeping up or grinding to keep your character strong. All your resources are either going to your character or being saved for a future release (in hopes you actually pull that character, on top of pulling that character enough times to rank them up). By definition. P2W. It’s definitely F2P and fun if you’re not worried about topping leaderboards. If you want to compete, stream, go pro (if that is even a thing here cause I am new to gacha, and have no experience with even Genshin) you gotta invest just like you would with any hobby. I spend $300+ monthly in an off-road driving hobby (net). Variables can jump that much higher into thousands or literally $20/ month (not including gas/food/water etc). Just vehicle maintenance. If I invested in this game like a hobby, I can guarantee it proves P2W for leaderboards.

[@ayemjake]

@@charlesharalson487 Hi, I'm currently playing the game and I'm at 30k CS at level 59 (which is like average for most players). As for other content like ruins. I Just finished a hard difficulty ruiin just a moment ago which requires 50k CS. I think the experience varies from person to person. I still find it enjoyable to play to say the least.. although I am still having trouble with breaking through my suppressor.

[@AzazelAugustus]

Very P2W

[@KOBKStreak]

It is what it is currently with these games, at least the pity system is more friendlier than most others or than they could have it set as. This system works with free gained rolls or bought rolls. If the PVE is engaging, then grinding and playing with friends/guild members won't be boring.

[@Hamdaddy]

This is why f2p is so dreaded by most people not because it’s a bad model to make your game around it’s because of games like this that almost force players to pay to stay competitive or enjoy more aspects of the game they already enjoy playing. It doesn’t feel good to grind day in and day out when you now someone just spent 100+ $ on the game to get everything when you barely have half the game unlocked, sad.

[@Sm0ke821]

I would add two 0s to that but yeah ,p2w to this day havent made games better for anyone but developers ,no innovation or anything they just strip things 0and if you want to actually get strong you need to open your wallet multiple times or get stomped in pvp at least genshin impact is more of a single player this game has full pvp modes where you will get stomped

[@venusdied6452]

Ikr? Games were meant to be fun, now you have to pay not once, but waste a shit tone of money to have fun

[@swordyshield]

from what I've heard the pvp is balanced so it doesn't matter how much u spend

[@Nobody-vr5nl]

There's no such thing as only pve pay to win. If u can pay ur way to the top in pve, that's means u can farm pvp with top pve gear from the start

[@SmHy23]

Not with equalized gears and stats, like Lost Ark by example.

[@crashzone6600]

Never play gacha, you only encourage gacha. You only encourage games like Diablo Immortal. Plus getting new weapons that most people do not have that will then transfer over to PvP will effect win ratio, and I will give you a very simple example of why that is. If you have ever played CoD you should know how weapons effect metas. Even more so when as they are saying abilities will be tied to weapons, so what happens when they release a weapon with overpowered abilities? It will dominate the pvp scene, and will force all people to go for that weapon until they nerf it and balance it with all other weapons. And then they will release a new overpowered weapon... This drives sales, and is very probably done intentionally.

[@swordyshield]

@@elliottreed5283 eh there are plenty of gacha games which aren't p2w. Genshin is the biggest example of this as its extremely easy to get to endgame even with a f2p comp

[@Monkeyswheelchair]

gaming need players to stop supporting this crap but I don't think they will but the copium persist.

[@mortek1379]

16:38 "Incarnation" one of the best donghua i ever seen

[@СашаЛагаев]

I can asure you. Some of those so-called constellations gonna be a break point in balance. Probably achievable by the f2p but it will cost a lot of time.

[@williamppl3624]

PvP in Gancha games = Competition of who pays more.

[@Rustypug]

I downloaded it and tried it because the setting appealed to me, I have never played a gacha game and I gotta say I played it for 6 hours straight it was a really fun experience didn't even notice anything pay to win wise

[@mort6578]

Games like this, the feeling of having to pay always comes in later on once the rewards dry up

[@Rustypug]

@@Sadistic626 currently at 12 hours and I'm still having fun!!!

[@timoyr2954]

I'm not sure I agree on Asmongolds Gambling/Slot machine criticisms when it comes to these games with a guaranteed pity. At that point the complaint shouldn't be about gambling. It should be that these characters/weapons are ridiculously expensive and cost like 200€ or months of in-game saving. Like if Asmongold's "getting gambling out of games"-bill would pass. These wouldn't fall into that, because unlike a casino, you are guaranteed to win and win exactly what you wanted too. So they'd argue it's just a purchase, but with extra steps.

[@JakeTilk]

So they turned Tower of God into a game lol

[@basilisk..]

How to tell me you know nothing about tower of fantast or tower of god without telling me you know nothing about tower of fantasy or tower of god🤣🤣

[@juniorj8393]

For Lost ark, I'm just glad my crew has a few whales. I get carried by friends of 8 years+ who spend without me needing to use gold for buses. Also really like your usage of the graph, games that allow you the full experience and get good things with the choice of spending money to maybe top off and get yourself a bit further than most I find to be much more friendly to the overall player base it creates.

[@davenarisotto3674]

Even if it's not pay2win, why are we getting so many weeby,anime games? I wish there were more high fantasy mmos

[@rajendradiaz2308]

Cuz these devs saw how milking anime can get you so rich. Look at gensimp and think for yourself "ah i wanna have original idea that totally not gonna copy guaranteed success theme"

[@yanniko4521]

Cuz Genshin

[@imabirdo]

Rule of thumb is if it's a gacha with PVP then it's pay to win regardless of how much free stuff the game gives.

[@dark-cn9yq]

This game literally ripped offed from Genshin and honkai. That alone makes me not want to play or support it.

[@dark-cn9yq]

@@Sorrowdusk they literally ripped of designs from honkai and they also copied and pasted Genshin reviews to their own game.

[@linnen_elm]

@@Sorrowdusk bruh it's been months already... you never heard about the stolen assets stuff? like just quick search to get a whole summaries of said incident, less than a min bruh

[@senmaroll1006]

@@dark-cn9yq and genshin ripped all of its game from breath of the wild. Guess what that is how things work nowadays. You take good stuff from other games and implement it in your own. Even in 90% if the music you listen there are samples from other songs

[@alaaeid8320]

Hello GI stakeholder they stole your design?

[@ROFLWAFFLELAWL4]

So as someone who played Japanese mobile games for over 10 years now (some of them I've played for the entire time) and basically completely free to play, it's never felt like a necessity to push it. HOWEVER this is only because I only play mobile games casually. I'll maybe let it grab an hour or two of my time in between doing other things but for the most part I never put an enormous amount of time in a single sitting. Because of this, I never feel like I'm hitting a wall that one might hit vs someone who spends a lot of time. The reason I say this is because if I don't play for a couple days or a week, when I come back there are typically a few gifted rewards that top off resources I would have otherwise needed to grind out, which is what can lead to quick purchases. So long story short: Playing casually allowed me to play these relatively stress free. It's target audience are mobile users who are on the go and don't have time to sit down for long periods of time and is how I feel is the healthy way to play it. Now another thing I'd have to point out is PvP. In the end, I have games specifically for PvP. I built a whole computer specifically to play those games. It makes 0 sense for me to spend that time playing a mobile gaming, even more so in spending money in those mobile games. That's money I could use to get a better GPU, get more games, buy cosmetics for games that I have spent a lot of time in and continue to. What's the point of this comment? I just wanted to give my 2 cents as a long time mobile gaming player. The only money I've spent is about $20 in a game called Monster Strike. And this was about 6 years of playing the game. I've missed out on a lot of characters that were limited that are still used years later. But that's the free to play way, and I'm ok with that. I mean it's either that or spending money on a free to play mobile game that might shut down at any point (which happens more frequently in mobile games). And all that time I still enjoy it but because I play it in doses. If I'm ever hit with a wall that almost forces me to spend money to progress, I uninstall that game.

[@TheBobTheDoctor97]

Love this dudes vids specially with asmon reacts, good way to feel better from a shitty day 😎🤙

[@m.b.5329]

Killing hype is the best thing datamining can do. Hype is generally a bad thing from a customer pov.

[@robs6404]

Props for not having P2W in PvP. PvP should never be P2W.

[@EricDrinksWater]

Giving props for the bare minimum is actually embarrassing.

[@SpookyTree255]

I think the term Pay to Win is a bit more complex, by Asmongold definition then games like Genshin are P2W... No matter what Hoyolovers and Hoyohaters says, the there is nothing to compete with, the whole game is based around having characters and max them with percect gear just because, paying to skip it is just plain Pay to Lose, like paying WoW sub and extra fee for it to play itself.

[@korn0215]

To him and many of his audience F2P is always P2W no matter what system they use there's gonna be some aspect that qualify as P2W element To them it's either Buy 2 Play or Pay 2 Win that's it for other P2W have some space/distance between them there's a game that 100% P2W and allow player to purchase stats/weapon that normal currency do not allow to and it give them undeniable advantage over other(PVP game) then there's game that give you some boost / skip some annoying blockage(time gate/grinding) the game that just pure cosmetic/visual microtransaction is non-existence nowaday most of them will have some kind of minor boost to help player with their progress which to me is only fair if it use Free to play Module heck AAA 60$ game even use F2P microtransaction module

[@michaelh878]

@@korn0215 Using only a single battle pass or other optional subscription would be fair. Having all the garbage these mobiles have is awful and shouldn't be supported by anyone if they want to keep them out of PC games

[@natemonster4465]

Yes its p2w

[@baker099]

If you can buy Power in a game period then its P2W. Doesn't matter the game mode.

[@goldsharki3392]

The map has a lot of drawing thing to get off the map and you can summon everything it’s a big adventure and running around collecting everything

[@Myndi78]

That dude said Diablo Immortal wasn't pay2win, now says this game isnt p2w... Excuse me if I am not convinced 😂 I dont understand how anyone can take that guy seriously.

[@tot.musica]

As long as the game is accessible to the f2p community as well, I usually don't mind if there are p2w elements. If the p2w elements are entirely optionable and just speed you on your merry way to max level/gear, I don't really see that as a problem as that function is already in pretty much every gacha game and a lot of MMO games as well. If the p2w elements are in PVP however, then that's definitely not okay. I'm not a PVP MMO person, but that shit must suck for those who love to PVP.

[@float32]

Most p2w games are super boring grind fests of getting killed by whales, for f2p players. It’s reallly easy to tell if a game is pay to win: is it a boring chore every day? If yes, then it almost always is.

[@charlestrudel8308]

i do indeed prefer to have sub instead of microtransaction. Because if the sub is too high, people wont pay for it, meaning, the product needs a degree of quality. microtransaction means that anyone can play it and pay as much as they want, so the game just need to be good enough to acquire the player base that will pay big money on it. it all comes down to roof of expense.

[@jibblecain]

Imagine dropping money on genshin impact and now everyone is playing this game and you have to spend money all over again. No thanks. Gacha: Not Even Once.

[@kayley2198]

You say every game is pay2win it’s boring now.

[@KingShado69]

I've played for about a week and gotten to lvl 41 and cleared 3 zones and in PVP or boss fights you have continuous delay( I have an internet connection with 16 ping and upload 940mb/s and upload 470mb/s) where the boss teleports into you and kills you and in PVP everyone uses ranged weapons and can outrun you, and you can't do shit against them because even when you hit them with your melee weapon the attacks isn't registered, and it's like you fight a ghost. I've played a lot of PVP games, and the amount of glitches I had in PVP made me ragequit.

[@xtremefurrycat]

You know the next evolution of the loot box will be a reward loot box in the battle pass, and there is no cap on the amount of battle passes you can get. But you can't buy the box directly.

[@viniciuszimmermann8079]

I think one of the reasons players prefer to play a p2w game is the thought that it will be cheaper than paying a monthly fee like in wow or ff. Or cheaper than buying expansions. And it's true, but only if you don't spend anything in the p2w game but, if you do, you don't advance in the game. And yes, I know that in some cases you can have a good experience without spending a dime but, these are rare cases these days. In short, I'd rather buy the game and expansions and even pay a monthly fee than play a "Free to play" game. Note: I'm playing ff now and I'm loving it.

[@spacesmorgy6820]

Getting tired of games being made just to make you spend money

[@synergistex7088]

Another problem on top on gambling (+addiction if u want), is there update is so fast. That's the stimulant that cause people to buy more, so it's really predatory. That's why I like games that has subs, it's fair and update is not that fast and abusive. NNK for example now, ToF is to follow

[@BushSage]

I think the only reason people think it not being PVP p2w doesn't make it overall p2w is because when they read "win" they think in terms of competition. If it's pve, they only see the environment and don't realize things like worlds firsts/servers firsts, or just general speed and ease of gameplay matter.

[@yoba867]

It's a gacha MMO, it's a defenition of p2w. Genshin has an excuse of being a non-competitive casual single player game. Now take Genshin levels of p2w and slap it into competitive environment

[@shatteredsentient5321]

I still find it funny when Asmon was ripping up the money and then looking at the guy's face. 34:20

[@g.d.2059]

If stats matter, and you can get better stats from spending money, that's an advantage, that's Paid to Win. Unless there's a sync system or every player can chose the same gear from a list before they pvp, it's not free to play.

[@SkibbyDooBop]

My agenda in Tower of Fantasy is to play an account without spending a single cent. First off there's no pay2win in PvP. Impossible. Everything is stat locked and stat-balanced. It's just about unbalanced characters with unbalanced skills right now. Secondly, far in my free-to-play adventure I have hit a wall where I can't pull or get upgrades to progress until resets happen. My counter-part account which has spent money is pulling way ahead on upgrades. Spent about 100$ to pull far ahead into it's Combat Score and Suppressor where my free-to-play can't be at. The pay-to-win aspect is spending money to max stars out on your weapon (by getting pulls) to make progress through things like "Bygone Phantasm" easier just to get even more upgrades for things like equipment or upgrades to help increase Combat Score. There is also paying money to get high-end SSR Matrices to add to your weapon for traits that add Combat Score for damage and such for PvE or Joint Operations yadda yadda yadda that show. PvE pay-to-win in Tower of Fantasy is about whose dps is better than who's and everyone is running around flexing on each other on who spent more money and et cetera. In my summary, this game is indeed pay-to-win but it's still fun to play even if you don't. This is just my opinion. Everything can't be fully reviewed until we reach end-game cap.

[@CapucineNighly]

I dunno about it being heavily p2w like Diablo Immortal. Been playing the game so far. Haven't spent a dime, got 5 ssrs and several dupes of them(free ssr selector by just playing the game). The gacha rate is so-so but the pity is actually better than genshin and FGO(pity regardless if you got ssrs already, won't reset) at 80 pulls you will 100% get ssr. If you pulling for dupes save up the black gold (120, which you ONLY get everytime you pull) to buy the dupes of already gotten ssrs in the weap shop. The matrices(things to boost your weapon) are even easier to get coz its at 40 pulls for 100% ssr but won't reset if you got any ssrs along the way. I'm just playing for the pve aspect. The pvp is actually similar to Onmyoji in a sense that there's a time the dueling arena is opened. I usually only play the solo dungeons and team, which you get more materials in. A lot of the content I have to say, you have to play to unlock. Not pay to unlock like how EA or acti-blizz or even TakeTwo would do their games. All the better outfits, accessories and mounts are only gotten through gameplay. Especially the mounts so far, the only way to get new ones is to farm for them or do quests. Maybe it's p2w for people who aren't patience enough to play the game? Well, only been playing for a week so far. It might change in the long haul, which I hope it don't. Mind you I've been playing mmos since the old pixel like mmos where you sub monthly. So far, this isn't toxic bad like other mmo gachas(tried those, didn't last a few days for me playing it). You literally have to play to unlock the content like normal games. This game is only gaining traction because of Genshin players(either by good or bad light, typical). Like, where were you all during Ni No Kuni cross worlds?

[@peacefindersimply5001]

Your not alone, been 100% f2p and doing just fine. In a crew that is all f2p too and we are all competing. A lot of the content is actually not even available to buy with money. Pay 2 win for me is if there are paywalls or paying can put someone absurdly far ahead. In this you need to farm a lot even if you pay.

[@Lascar233]

When this guy rich says it is not pay to win, just think of it like a mix tape playing in reverse.