How POWERFUL Is Vecna Actually?

[@DnDShorts]

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[@LucanVaris]

"Vecna pulls out an ancient Amulet of Summon Deus Maximus." _pulls out a sledgehammer from under the table. Smashes your figurines._ *NEVER* fuck with the DM! D:

[@joeyattack99]

Opinion time: It's a bit weak. I'm running Vecna at 5 (maybe 6-7 depending on circumstances) level 10 adventurers, and I think they might steam roll him :/

[@stefanomartinelli7344]

One thing, the advantage on samurai from Xanathar is only for melee Attacks. Sorry, but I had to, laterly I have been possesed by the Ghost of a rulelawyer. I now Remember more rules while playing, but Always feel the Need to "actually..." And correct Someone.

[@KevinVideo]

I supported the campaign when it first launched. So glad I did. What an absolute boss of an adventure.

[@vvsandgaming4648]

Don't forget that the DM will be designing the lair and that statblock is just a guideline... imagine if he also had Wizard_Necromancer levels and items as well like the amulet of ultimate evil

[@justanotherglorpsdaymornin5097]

So Vecna can be beaten by two weaker spellcasters working together. The power of friendship really is no joke.

[@schizophrenic_rambler]

The power of META

[@spiritobsessedchild9938]

The power of cheesing your opponent so badly that they'll be allergic to it for the rest of their existence xD

[@AugustoEL]

Well cheesing used to be the name of those strategies but it was never taken seriously, friendship is not until you see it in action and a few doofus kids kill a god with it.

[@M9Seradon]

Action economy is no joke

[@backcountry164]

Spellcasters?? Two fighters with bows and Vecna doesn't even get a turn...

[@krieggfn3896]

Vecna: "It's over Rogue! I have 25 passive perception!" Rogue: "You underestimate my power!" Vecna: "Don't try it!"

[@sirken2]

meanwhile my casual 40+ stealth rolls XD with pass without a trace and a -5 to perception due to Elven cloak

[@gabriel101x]

Yea the Rogue in my current party can't roll below a 30 for stealth and that's without pass without a trace. Vecna ain't seeing shit 😂

[@sirken2]

@@gabriel101x im also a gloomstalker sin champ multiclass so if I get a surprise off its HURTS 8 arrows at your face all SS all crits XD

[@Paradox-es3bl]

@@sirken2 Gloomstalker sin champ? I’m guessing this means Gloomstalker/Champion Fighter multiclass… but what’s the sin part stand for?

[@balefulbunny]

@@Paradox-es3bl Assassin

[@NecrelKitsune]

One thing to note: This is Vecna pre-Ascension.

[@ColgateMcajax]

I think wotc is just releasing this just to look for the ways this vecna is killable and then release post ascension vecna with the obvious weaknesses removed plus more to counter all the entries made to kill pre ascension vecna.

[@NecrelKitsune]

@@ColgateMcajax post-Ascension vecna would likely require beyond level 20 ruling for leveling beyond just the boons that are given by wotc. If he was below CR 35 to 40 I would be brutally disappointed. Also it'd be fun if they also included a harder mode for post Ascension with him reunited with his eye and hand.

[@alexbarn3841]

@@ColgateMcajax post ascension Vecna will not be getting released almost assuredly, as far as I’m aware 5e has had a policy of not releasing stat blocks for gods. D&D learned it’s lesson from AD&Ds Dieties and Demigods when people started killing all the gods within it and getting insane god-level artifacts. This kinda pissed off Gygax and now we have Tomb of Horrors as a result.

[@boldbearings]

💘

[@dizzydoom4230]

@@NecrelKitsune Late, but there's actually a Vecna statblock out there post-ascension in the homebrew book Ulraunt's Guide to the Planes: Shadowfell. In it, his base is that he can multi-cast two spells per turn (at will up to 4th level spells). He has an innate vulnerability to damage from the Sword of Kas, but it explicitly says in the statblock that if he's reunited with the eye and hand? He loses his vulnerability and can now multicast *three* spells a turn and gains an additional Legendary Action, bumping him up from 5 to 6.

[@maxkogan3785]

Wanna know what's truly insane? This is literally "You Fools! This isn't even my final form!" Vecna. Archlich Vecna was the state he was in before he achieved godhood and later an even greater divine rank. Vecna at his peak is infinitely stronger than what wizards gave us. Wizards themselves confirmed that this is Vecna before achieving a Divine Rank, and if you look closely his CR is the same as Demogorgon, Orcus, and Zariel. So before peaking, he rivaled the Prince of Demons in Power as well as a Fallen Solar now Archduchess of the Baator. How's that for scary?

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Just Pointing out orkus can literally make him as a servent…… I find it amusing a cr 26 encounter can have the ability to summon a cr 26 encounter as one it’s actions.

[@maxkogan3785]

@@patrickmcathey7081 if you take it literally, yes. Lore wise, I don't believe Orcus has enough power to control Vecna anymore by this point. But yeah it is funny thought.

[@sharp_iodine2737]

@@patrickmcathey7081 How can he do that? Is it in his stats? I could not find it while Googling

[@nathanjones168]

@@sharp_iodine2737 Orcus showed him how to become a lich and gave him some power I believe, and he wouldn't give that for free.

[@Watcher40K9]

Also, they give the DMs the option to boost up the fight by giving him the Book of Vile Darkness. Strategic selection below: Select the Major Beneficial Property for 'immunity to Blinded, Deadened, Petrified, and Stunned conditions', and now his Truesight is not inhibited by Heavily Obscured effects and he can 'see' for his counterspell. Take 3 Minor Benefical Properties of DMG Resistance for Magical Piercing, Magical Bludgeoning, and Fire. This protects against ranged weapon users, fire is very common and spells tend to use DEX saves Vecna lacks, and it should help with the chance a Meteor Storm hits him in a blitz attack. 3 Minor Detrimental properties can be 'Blinded when separated from book by 10 ft', 'Deafened when separated from book by 10 ft', and 'destroy Holy Water within 10 ft'. The Major Benefit negates the first two, since you are still attuned even with distance. The third is just a benefit for undead. For the Major Detrimental Properties, take the 'rotting flesh' and 'kill a creature of your alignment before attunement'. His flesh is already rotted, and killing an evil subordinate who failed him is nothing new. Now he's buffed up significantly just from the random (or DM decided) properties, along with the other defined properties.

[@chiepah2]

Yeah, his low HP and lack of legendary actions really makes cheese possible, but to be fair, at this point of his career he's just a really strong spell caster. Sounds like 3 archers with high initiatives just ends the fight too.

[@shapshane8241]

make that two, non-optimized archers. treantmonk talked bout how weak vecna is

[@spartaneternal8423]

I would argue that no party should reasonably be in a position where they could cheese him via range. On top of the fact that you’ll probably also be dealing with an army of undead plus several lieutenants at the same time.

[@Cyfearal]

@@spartaneternal8423 Well guess what. The level 20 Adventure has you fight him alone in an enclosed room and he can actually get 1 rounded by some unoptimal arcane archers with no magic items. GG

[@spartaneternal8423]

@@Cyfearal A level 20 one shot isn’t designed to reflect Vecna’s full capabilities as a villain? Call me surprised. I’m not saying this statblock can’t be cheesed. I’m saying that this cheese would have no impact on Vecna played to his full ability in an actual campaign.

[@Cyfearal]

@@spartaneternal8423 This statblock isn't anywhere near representative of his full ability in the first place.

[@nero784]

After the beholder episode and this... God, these are so good! The "strength/weaknesses, into beat the bad guy, into cheese him, into secretly a guide for sadistic DMs" HAS to become a series!

[@O4C209]

I've said this in Treantmonk's video on Vecna: Vecna being a "Time Wizard" should automatically win initiative. He can also cast Fly at will so he should be flying before the start of the battle. In addition to having Shield available, I would also change Invisibility to Greater Invisibility. I think those were mistakes made by WotC. Afterthought is for stabbing the spell casters. +13 to hit. 20 Con save. Until the individual succeeds on the save, they can not regain hit points.

[@ivodijkman137]

Wait, where do you get the Time Wizard Vecna thing from? 'cus if so I might have found a nice tie-in for my Chronurgy Wizard player in a world where time travel is quite literally supossed to be even out of the reach of Gods xD

[@spartaneternal8423]

Remember this is nerfed Vecna for your standard dnd party. This is Vecna on his day off. Optimized Vecna would be nigh unbeatable. Although I agree with all your points.

[@HallowedKeeper_]

@@ivodijkman137 Its in the lore of the Vecna Dossier, this Vecna statblock isn't even Vecna at his full power (He takes this form to torment his enemies, if he actually got serious you wouldn't be fighting this statblock)

[@a0point0of0view1]

Since when is Vecna a time wizard, he's famous for his necromancy and being a major contributor to the vile book of darkness

[@HallowedKeeper_]

@@a0point0of0view1 Its in the lore of the Vecna Dossier, he is regarded as a powerful time wizard (In fact, the stat block they give him is pre-ascension. And its specifically called out that this is pre-ascension vecna, and it can exist because of Vecna's mastery over time magic.

[@Sethzenjion]

Way of the open hand monk just straight up hard counters vecna. At just third level you can remove his reactions with no save against it.

[@aaronwilliams8887]

Yep! By far his greatest weakness is anything that removes reactions, particularly without spells.

[@Zulk_RS]

I mean to be fair, I feel like Monk in general is the Anti-Mage class. Vecna, as powerful as he is, is the Mage Super Boss

[@Spiceodog]

A shocking grasp would also work

[@Spiceodog]

@@Zulk_RS nah, abjuration mage or glibbed bard with counter spell is the strongest anti mage. A bard with glibness on can guarantee counter spell a 9th level spell with no roll necessary , using a 3rd level spell slot

[@vulcorethegreat1220]

Hit him with shocking grasp an he can't do anything

[@gailengigabyte6221]

Maybe, as a bonus action, Vecna can pull out the Book of Vile Darkness he has in his person, gaining additional spells like AOEs, as well as turn his actions (outside of spellcasting) into legendary actions. But other than that, as a DM planning on having Vecna in a campaign, adding shield and subtle spell is an awesome idea to prevent cheese. You sir, just got a sub!

[@DnDShorts]

What do y'all think of Vecna? I talk about it more in the bonus video, but I really like what they've done with this stat block! Feels like no matter what it's going to be a good fight, unlike other bosses where they either kill the party instantly or are a total pushover. #TarrasqueProblems

[@erikdouglas9952]

Feels weak as hell tbh :( AC is tiny, HP is a joke. 2 Arcane archers with absolutely 0 gear can 1 round him before he even goes... His HP needs to be tripled and he needs legendary actions.

[@PowerHouseProdigy]

Unfortunately, I think this statblock is a pushover for a level 15 party let alone a level 20 one. He's a legendary evil archlich with higher Wisdom than Intelligence, No 9th level spells, and No legendary actions. What's keeping a fighter from casting "stab" and killing this man in a round or two. He does have escape spells...but he's an Archlich. Why should he need to use them? Did he get this far by running from every fight he found himself in? Kind of ruins the whole evil fantasy of being an "Archlich." I *do* love his Dread Counterspell and Bonus Action Teleport, though.

[@deathtoexistance]

For your cheese strat make sure to specify that you make the forcecage with bars not a solid wall. While it is invisible you cant target a location that has the path from you to it obstructed, hence forcecage can work with bars but wall of force never will. I think noting his sight as a limiting factor is important, but truly his main weakness is 18 ac and 250 ish hp for a cr 26 monster. The 80hp heal is nice, but its once per round at best. Without legendary actions hes pretty pants. Also people are saying his spell list is great, but it's really not. He has a bunch of noob trap spells, non upcastable lightning bolts aren't going to be useful at this level. Twice a day regular invisibility is bad. Why does he have fly as a concentration spell that takes his one action when most monsters of that level just have a fly speed? Why is his only useful concentration spell dominate monster which is once per day? why is his plane shift once per day and only on himself? I think his only useful spell is at will animate dead, which implies he should have an near endless number of minions with him at all times. But even though he has that apparently the adventure lists him as being alone in a small chamber, meaning to can't make use of his mobility and stay at range well and loses the one good thing he can do. Hes supposed to be one of the greatest spellcasters ever, but he's just not. Any high level wizard can do what he does but better and that's sad. Even in his best case scenario vecna needs major modifications to be challenging to a party of adventurers at a level that he's supposed to challenge them. The fact he has bad initiative and no legendary actions plus the low tank stats makes it very likely he won't do anything at all before dying, making him very anticlimactic.

[@probablythedm1669]

Weaksauce. Way too few hit points and having no legendary actions means he's likely to die before he can act against some decent initiative rolls. :( I'd deffinitely buff him, a lot. Max hit points, and legendary action and lair actions. Then maybe he'll get to act and live past turn 1. 😉

[@ZulatobariGreatforge]

I think the worst part, is that you’re supposed to fight him in an enclosed room, with no minions to help him. Unless you just decide to escape and fight ok better terms, the teleport is almost useless. That enclosed space is also part of his lair too, so he does *want* to fight there. Honestly, Treatmonk’s fix of making Vecna immune to B, S, or P unless from an artifact, would do a decent trick.

[@Ryuflare1]

When I first saw the stat block, my very first thought was "That's a lot of Necrotic Damage. Hey. Aren't higher level Undead Warlocks just immune to being Frightened and Necrotic Damage? Go Pact of the Blade, grab Improved Pact Weapon for a Longbow, and just fire away at 90ft away and he just cannot hurt you."

[@sidecharacter7165]

Does this Vecna have Robes of the Archmagi? I didn’t see his 3 Attuned items.

[@mickeysmagic89]

@@sidecharacter7165 the stat block doesn’t account for any items outside of Afterthought (his dagger). The adventure they released recommends letting him use the Book of Vile Darkness he has embedded in his chest, or even giving him his Hand and/or Eye. Nerd Immersion gave him a +4 to his INT from the Book of Vile Darkness (+2 from it’s own effect and +2 from the “Major Benefit”), which upped all his DCs by 2

[@travisdunlap4526]

Vecna agrees your combo is mighty (cast Dominate Person), you will be a fine addition to the team.

[@sidecharacter7165]

I think a tank holding him down in an Anti-Magic field would be more than enough to take him down.

[@shealupkes]

late but get sharpshooter at some point and hit him from 600 feet away

[@Hyacin]

Always a treat to see another fun mechanical breakdown!!

[@chaosjimthevoidlord3762]

A high level rogue with a Druid in their party can definitely sneak up on him, with the rogues +17 to stealth, and then a pass without trace spell for a +10 to stealth, the rogue will easily be able to sneak up on Vecna.

[@Weegiest_beegi]

You can’t just roll high on stealth and successfully sneak you can’t be in view when you sneak

[@chaosjimthevoidlord3762]

@@Weegiest_beegi yes, but as long as you can reasonably sneak up on him, the rogue can and will.

[@Ahglock]

@@chaosjimthevoidlord3762 Yeah unless Vecna hangs out in a empty room all day odds are you can sneak up on him like you sneak up on anyone else.

[@chaosjimthevoidlord3762]

@@Ahglock Just casually walk up behind him with a +27 to stealth. He’ll never see it coming.

[@absolutelybuttons7164]

Your high-level rogue has reliable talent, so its stealth floor is already 27 without PWT. A ranger can also do your combo solo (Canny for stealth expertise, already has PWT).

[@ccnc2896]

Vecna Vs level 20 characters is a joke though, Treantmonk analyzed that 2 fighters with no magic weapons can kill him before he takes a single action

[@override367]

How can this be? Reddit has decided that fighters are worthless at tier 4 gameplay (except for the fact that all tier 4 bosses have LRs and basically teabag spellcasters but martials can throw out 1 and a half disintegrates on an average turn in terms of damage)

[@crystallxix1493]

@@override367 They are unless they just kill you the first turn

[@The_polishcrusader]

Fighters go bonk vecna

[@1stCallipostle]

Vecna: Has a head Doesn't have legendary actions Isn't immune to Magical slashing (though the nonmagical immunity could be interpreted as a block here from how it's worded) Is medium One Vorpal Crit, depending on ruling, could do the trick outright

[@mickthelick5788]

@CcNc Was going to say something similar. For 3-4 level 20's this version of Vecna is really not a challenge at all.

[@drewforchic9083]

My home additions to this stat block include everything one gains from using the Eye and Hand of Vecna that isn't already included (x-ray vision, 20 STR, +2d8 cold damage to melee, extra spells and charges for them ((other than finger of death, Rotten Fate is already a better version)), immune to surprise, regeneration 1d10 hp per round while not unconscious, turn-your-bones-to-jelly-Touch, and 1/month casting of Wish) as well as Turn Resistance (or honestly even immunity) like regular liches that Vecna would logically also possess. Also a 60 ft fly speed built in so he doesn't have to waste his concentration on Fly, since he can already cast it at will.

[@ChaoticTrapper]

Ah yes another thing for the bard to boink

[@strongsmith1897]

Something overlooked here is that Vecna is considered a god, and could easily just chill out in an anti magic field and still cast his spells through it no problem, thus being immune to all magics you try to toss at him. Edit: I was unaware that the stat block given was before his assent into godhood, so unfortunately he’s gonna still be gimped by Antimagic

[@inky7993]

The statblock version of Vecna isn't a god, it's before he became a god

[@strongsmith1897]

@@inky7993 good catch I didn’t notice that! I stand corrected

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

I see nothing that says anything about anyone being able to ignore the anti magic field in 5e even if they were a god.

[@strongsmith1897]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 read the spell anti-magic field, namely: “Spells and other magical Effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the Sphere and can't protrude into it.”

[@maximillianhallett3055]

Bro, you offering your work for free to those that can’t afford your patreon convinced me to sub. Good on ya.

[@crunch1216]

I rule true sight to be quite unstoppable. For my setting it can only be stopped by anti divination, anti magic, or lead. I think that's reasonable for being called TRUEsight

[@aaronwilliams8887]

agree and disagree. For me the creature still has to be able to see, so blindness effects can shut down. at the same time i do think it should bypass things that obscure vision, but not through objects. otherwise a party casting true sight now has xray vision though all objects that are not lead. but I can see why you want to buff it, creatures that rely on it are cheesable if you know the weaknesses. damned if you do, damned if you don;t

[@agilemind6241]

Same, if the players complain I just say they have Blindsight as well as Truesight.

[@jeffreygregory3734]

How does that make sense? By that same logic people with true sight should be able to see thru walls

[@crunch1216]

When I use true sight it's not by a basic person casting a spell or through an item. I think of extra planar beings who have gone past eyes and stuff. But I can agree that the more mild versions of true sight can't see through solid walls. And I'll agree that blinding a person might stop their true sight depending on how they are blinded

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

@@aaronwilliams8887 thats the point of knowing the WEAKNESS.

[@rangleme]

Vecna and the various parts of Vecna have been around for LONG LONG time - since 1976 in Eldritch Wizardry. I remember player characters talking about getting the hand or the eye of Vecna and me just thinking, "hmmm - our future does not bode well". These over powered but cursed items would eventually destroy the party from within and lead to an unstoppable TPK when we actually encountered Vecna. I'm talking utter and humiliating devastation without a glimpse of hope. My thieves would open a chest to reveal a moldy hand or petrified eye and simply turn to the party and answer, "Empty, nothing to see here". DMs would catch on to my tricks and started having the ring of Vecna or the amulet of Vecna. If pressed about it, I'd reveal a pouch of gold that nobody knew about just so that their natural inclinations about my natural inclinations to steal party treasure seemed to pay off. Of course I stole party treasure, I'm a thief, but I'm not a stupid thief... I'm not doing anything with Vecna. Being a sneaky thief generally made me sole survivor in most TPKs. Then it became my job to drag their dead bodies back to town and cough up my "hard earned" gold to raise the lot from the dead. Enjoy your Vecna encounters - TPKs for everybody.

[@sidecharacter7165]

Head of Vecna was too OP.

[@drewforchic9083]

It's worth noting in regards to Vecna Vs Orcus that Orcus, as written, has the ability to summon a Vecna to fight for him, in addition to a second basic lich and demilich all at once

[@yuridezanet7560]

That Vecna is the statblock before his ascension to Godhood, that's why it's beatable. Well, technically in 3.5 there was a statblock for Vecna and many other gods, but they where absolutely insane, much much more than this Vecna and you needed to be a god yourself to kill one.

[@Meshifuari]

People often talk about fabled 3.5 e stat blocks of gods and I am sitting here trying to Find ONE for years.

[@gabriel101x]

Those stat blocks were just for the Avatars of gods not the gods themselves.

[@gabriel101x]

@@MeshifuariThe Trove used to be a great website where you could find PDFs of old D&D books. It's been taken down now but you can still find a lot of its stuff on the way back machine.

[@mke3053]

Deities and demigods 3.5e great book Also Faiths and panteons

[@mke3053]

@@gabriel101x Man, wich site you know instead of the trove?

[@Silverstar-wt5rj]

“Twenty minutes later I was 12 inches deep into orc female” I’m dead 🤣

[@Spendleton]

Might I suggest the other half of a wombo combo with Force Cage... At 6 levels of exhaustion, the creature dies. Sickening Radiance XGE p164 4th-level evocation Casting Time: 1 action Range: 120 feet Components: V, S Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes Dim, greenish light spreads within a 30-foot-radius sphere centered on a point you choose within range. The light spreads around corners, and it lasts until the spell ends. When a creature moves into the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, that creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 4d10 radiant damage, and it suffers one level of exhaustion and emits a dim, greenish light in a 5-foot radius. This light makes it impossible for the creature to benefit from being invisible. The light and any levels of exhaustion caused by this spell go away when the spell ends.

[@elizamalaguld9064]

Now this is something I can get behind

[@Hazslin]

Condition Immunities : exhaustion

[@Spendleton]

@@Hazslin woo well played Vecna... Well played. Works on just about anything else though XD

[@kevaughnmerrill6534]

That was an A1 ad man. Great work!

[@christopherjohnson7964]

dread counterspell is the biggest f you to spellcasters ever and i love it

[@nahrikkon]

a smoke bomb being able to block true sight is certainly something

[@ghackotpony]

Well done. Your commitment to improving your content is clear to see in this vid.

[@peebleshamster5189]

I had an idea for a combo, and I wanted to see if the god of combos thought it was good. Mind running it over? The gist is to take 14 levels in illusion wizard, 2 in fighter, and get the spells silent image and plane shift. Any time you feel like destroying the material plane, cast silent image, making the illusion of some dark matter at it’s shwarzshield radius (the size at which matter turns into a black hole), then use action surge to cast plane shift and go to another plane. On your bonus action, use illusory reality and make the illusion real. This will create a black hole that will destroy the planet and the solar system, and then, a minute later, disappear from existence. Seems like it’s all legal, just not lawful.

[@haerdalis84]

One issue - metagaming. Dark matter is a modern discovery. No wizard in a fantasy setting would be aware of it, let alone the amount needed to create a black hole.

[@peebleshamster5189]

@@haerdalis84 That’s fair. You could do any other material, but I chose dark matter because it is the densest material in the modern world. Adamantine should work as well.

[@johannesmikkonen1242]

Unfortunately, the objects made using illusory reality can't deal damage or harm anyone directly. Honestly that's a really cool idea, but thankfully someone thought of that before you.

[@peebleshamster5189]

@@johannesmikkonen1242I thought of this too. You make the matter, but the black hole deals the damage. Sure, one could argue that it would still not deal damage for some reason, but still, the damage does not need to be done for the aftermath to still occur. Once a creature or object is pulled to the event horizon, it’s trapped in the black hole. And things made by illusory reality can certainly move creatures and objects. The black hole will then disappear when the minute runs out on illusory reality, making everything disappear. I’m telling you. It’s foolproof!

[@johannesmikkonen1242]

@Nathan Parece I mean, you could argue that The matter doesn't cause damage directly, but as a DM, I would NEVER Allow this

[@rednassie1101]

You can also: 2 level 17 scribes wizard and tempest cleric with the metamagic adept: subtle spell and the elemental adept: lightning feats. Both subtle spell meteor swarm and change the damage type to lightning and use the channel divinity to deal max damage. This is 240 damage per caster, ignores resistance and can't be counterspelled

[@Rob-tq7xq]

I think it’s really cool that you offer the patreon video for free for those who can’t afford it. I also think the discord dm is a good way of going about it.

[@josephcalandra4703]

Dude your content is so fun and has me laughing nearly the whole time! Thank you because I really need to laugh right now! 🤣

[@CaptnJack]

spell Dimensional Anchor, and immunity to necrotic(or resist) damage takes care of a lot of that awesomeness

[@DirtyBertie]

I love that it’s challenging stat block not impossible takes cheese or some good tactics to beat

[@WetzforLife]

Thank you for the video especially the how to win. For my campaign I was going to run Vecna as the final boss and with this video I know how to modify him to fix those mistakes.

[@89qwyg9yqa34t]

All you have to do is challenge him to a "running with scissors" contest and hope he rolls a 1.

[@TheOneWhoShushes]

archer nova build: *pushes tarrasque away* now this, this is big game!

[@ThePhanomas]

Great video man! Very useful, nice editing and good pacing

[@gendissaray]

We ran a one shot combat with this, archery itself wasn't so great because he could teleport to cover, however the archer had a bow of certain death so he couldn't regain health.

[@ermacmacro7136]

Interesting point of order. A tricky DM might be able to give Vecna some of the powers that his eye and hand give him. Since those were cut off of him when he was in this state. So it would make sense that he can actually pull those powers out

[@lokstir4568]

We just fought Vecna in my weekly game. It wasn't actually Vecna, just the last form of the big bad was the Vecna Stat block. There was also some adds and lair actions, and our lvl 20 party was pretty tapped out. We managed to beat him one round. My paladin got to act first after the enemy transformed into this Vecna statblock and I had Holy Weapon up. I was completely out of spells, and our DM made it sound like the big bad was going to try and flee or teleport away once he could. In fact his previous form could teleport as a legendary action as well. So I popped the Holy Weapons ending ability to try and blind him and he failed. Once blinded he could use almost none of his abilities. No teleport, no healing, no counterspelling. And it was very simple for 5 level 20 characters to deal the roughly 300 hp to kill him.

[@Evilution-dt2yq]

I don't think the dagger is useless, each strike forces a high con saving throw and apon a fail the target Cannot heal until a successful re-save but this effect happens every successful hit with the dagger, rendering healing useless

[@tazkol]

acerarak: ah that's adorable you think he's the threat

[@asingularletter2948]

truesight means he can see out of the force cage , so he could bonus action teleport out of the cage, though the fighter method may work, you still would have to beat him in initiative.

[@thewalnutbucket]

he can't see through the fog with truesight through, so if its heavily obscured area then he couldnt see passed the cage. The cage is to keep him from moving regularly

[@cooperton4949]

I believe he's only got +3 initiative. A level 20 Archer is likely to have a 20 dex and therefore a better initiative bonus

[@elliotthartup4095]

Me and 3 other players took part in the level 20 oneshot that was put out with the Vecna stat block. For DMs worried about cheesy strats like the ones in this video, just make sure your players aren't planning to meta game. Most of our players were short notice, and the ones that weren't intentionally didn't look at the stat block. One of our characters was killed, the rest of us were on middling to low HP. Obviously be wary of your players, but even at level 20, you absolutely have a chance to give them hell

[@travisdunlap4526]

So having tried out a series of Vecna battles on Enworld, one thing we learned about the Afterthought Dagger. Vecna can Rotten Fate someone down to 0, move into melee, and double crit them with the dagger....instantly killing them. It is a very nasty way to truly finish a PC.

[@jeefberky9101]

Amazes me that a literal god wizard barely accounted for having the same weaknesses as basically every spellcaster

[@BLSXful]

I love how you introduce the titles. That voice is level 20

[@flareinc7413]

This way of killing Vecna is frakking amazing. :O I thought your builds thus far have been brilliant but this is so much more amazing.

[@RevantheBlack]

This video is amusing since at the last game I was in, our party dwarf rogue decided to literally piss on an effigy of Vecna…the DM left us with a cliffhanger (to be resolved this weekend) of something coming at the party.

[@graphthis2249]

I always give liches the Mislead spell and start encounters with it active… and every time it catches players off guard.

[@TheRealGraylocke]

Treantmonk Temple dropped Vecna in one round with a pair of level 20 human Arcane Archers with no magical items. The only provision is that everyone rolls a 10 on their initiative checks. The AA's beat Vecna's initiative, and stay at range. Vecna's reactions are useless as no spells, no one in melee range. Vecna's effed.

[@chrisdavies8660]

That smoke screen needs to be deployed within 40 feet to take affect because targeting a point takes line of sight for you also.

[@ahrenstarr6273]

Love your videos. Been binging them lately. And given the humor on display, I think you will take this comment in the jovial spirit intended. Does your microphone have to buy you dinner to get that level of attention? =)

[@cmeade82]

Always wonder what would happened if the Sword ok Kas was wielded by someone with The Hand of Vecna

[@VolatilisAzure]

brutal! but what would be even more humiliating is finding a way to trap Vecna in an amulet, kind of a genie in a lamp deal only there's no way for him to escape unless someone/thing destroys the amulet

[@Bobbydbobbyd]

This is amazing! Im actually planning on him being the BBEG of my homebrew, but when i looked at him I decided he was a bit weak. So im having it to where he has access to thr book of vile darkness. Im also allowing him to use his eye and hand, bc its vecna? Why not?

[@Watcher40K9]

As the DM, may I suggest manually selecting the random properties for the book? The Minor Beneficial would be good to add some dmg resistances. Some of the Detrimentals can actually be boons for undead (like destroy Holy Water in 10 ft).

[@Bobbydbobbyd]

@@Watcher40K9 Oh most definitely, and I feel that the detrimental might balance out the chaos

[@rampantsarcasm2220]

You are the DM dude, you can buff him as much as you want

[@Skinofgod]

Nice video and fair play for giving links away free on your Discord as well. Only comment I would say is I didn't like the split second text showing up at times in the background. Not sure what was going on there. Looking forward to more.

[@casbot71]

Meta-magic subtle spell is a useful feat to give a Wizard, it opens up so many options including _run away… run away_

[@frost576]

You can also beat vecna as a level 1 sorcerer all you need is a bag of holding and the spell catapult now you can cast catapult 2 before a long rest now cast catapult on the nearest pebble, preferably a 1 pound pebble. Repeat this until you have 500 1 pound pebbles in the bag of holding. Once you reach vecna just turn the bag of holding inside out pointing the bag towards vecna. Now he must roll 500 dc 12 dex saves, for each save he fails he must tak 3d8 damage, for each he succeeds he takes half that damage. And that’s how you beat vecna at level 1

[@foxfire7]

How to fix Vecna: 1) Dont forget he *has* the Book of Vile Darkness encased in his chest. 2) Give him a spell list with spell slots.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

lore isn't a statblock, statblock don't mention the book. he has w.e items the dm pleases.

[@HallowedKeeper_]

@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Their is a side note that says "If you wanted to add more challenge, consider giving him the book of Vile Darkness" which to me is reasonable, the thing that made this Vecna Statblock unusual was the fact that they didn't give him his lair actions (You'd most likely be facing Vecna in his Lair, which gives him lair actions)

[@kurtacus3581]

@@HallowedKeeper_ they dont give lair actions in the stat block but in the adventure they give lair action if the dm wants to add them in for more of a challenge

[@HallowedKeeper_]

@@kurtacus3581 It should be on the same page as his statblock, not in a single specific adventure. (Literally every other creature with Lair actions has it on their page)

[@kurtacus3581]

@@HallowedKeeper_ it should. But i was just informing you that there is lair actions. You just have to look at the adventure that is included with the vecna statblock

[@gaelofariandel6747]

0:33 a Rogue at level 13 with max Dexterity (as it should have by that point.) is guaranteed to sneak up on him. Also any one else that gains expertise through feats can sneak past Vecna at level 13 with a 55% success rate (Sneaky Goblin Monk is actually really quite fun). Other than that, yes.

[@thecamarrow02]

Another thing is that Vecna can also cast Animate Dead as an action at will. So depending on the initiative order before getting by the players, he can summon some zombies or skeletons to try and break their concentration for him or keep them busy

[@Gobblener]

My character:Please just stop this madness I’m only a level four dragon born wizard working for the shadow wizard money gang

[@Jamusse]

Liked for the Crown ad alone lol

[@PadanGedowitch]

Heavy makes actually sense, it's just badly named. It should be called unwieldy. Just imagine a three to five year old wielding a polearm or trying to draw a long bow to full length. Just rename short and long bow into hunting and war bow, as there are powerfull composite bows and weak longbows.

[@willvasser7253]

It makes sense according to physics but in a game of magic and fantasy why can’t a halfling swing a great axe

[@stevenclark2188]

I like the idea of Vecna trolling the party with the occasional counterspell as soon in the campaign as they know eachother exist.

[@Gnomkiller2000]

Best ad ever 10/10

[@omnishangout747]

This is great, are there more of these?

[@batteredskullsummit9854]

Vecnas kit is very giga brain, tons of outplay potential but punishing if he messes up bc long cooldowns

[@dirzydoo2785]

Orcus called, Said Vecna is a nerd

[@jonathanp9419]

Just wanted to say thank you, I was very concerned running him in my first Homebrew Campaign and one of my players is an absolute mega mind caster and I was very concerned with Vecna getting away to continue the story but it sounds like Subtle Spell will solve this concern.

[@PastorBabl]

Not sure if anyone has pointed it out but I think your microphone input is off. Sounds like you're coming through your webcam bro lol good luck! Thanks for the info on Vecna!

[@rareram]

So you're not sneaking up on him... Vax: Hold. My. Beer. Rolls... Uh yeah that's gonna be a 37.

[@chrisstanton70]

i like how you made us roll a perception check (which i passed btw) in this video lol

[@insanemang9983]

You know I'd love to see a boss that spawns in numbers equivalent to who's fighting it and each one is a perfect clone of the each party member all the way down to their stats and items they are carrying on hand.

[@PrinceMeNb1]

I'm planning something like this as soon as I get to trap my players in the feywild.. Thinking of the magic mirrors from different fairy tales

[@d_andrews]

So unless your DM coordinates them worse than you do, you have a 50% chance of a TPK? Seems a little high for me. Could be cool if you came up with a good way of nerfing them slightly, e.g. they have no proficiency bonus for the first round or two as they get used to their new forms

[@patrickmcathey7081]

My campaigns bbeg literally is a sentient mirror that does this.

[@mograune]

um you cant hurt him now that he is in the cage "A prison in the shape of a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any Spells cast into or out of the area." so yay Vecna is trapped but cant be hurt

[@DnDShorts]

if you read the spell further you'll see that you can form it with bars that things can pass through!

[@mograune]

@@DnDShorts ah fair enough

[@commentary4298]

And this is the pre-godhood version of him.

[@Lastofthesigilites]

True Polymorph a Tarrasque into a human and magic jar into its body. Now no spells can touch you.

[@Lv99RetroHippy]

If Vecna was as powerful as I am stoned, you’d all be in big trouble. Lol

[@Grayhammer]

I plan on using the stats that Mercer used for Critical Roll

[@benjaminodonnell258]

The problem with these strategies is it assumes Vecna is alone. While his experience with Kas means he may not ever again want a retainer who approaches his level, he's gonna have a bunch of level 10-15 henchmen forming up his own "party/bodyguard" - say, 1-2 melee fighters, 1-2 archers, a rogue/assassin type, an evil cleric, 1-2 arcane spellcasters (his apprentices), plus Vecna's familiar and any constructs (e.g. Golems) he has made. Unless he's on some super secret errand where he doesn't want to "roll deep" with an entourage, you're very unlikely to encounter him alone .

[@Shildran]

"Why do we want to defeat Vecna? Why not join him?" Warlock with pact of the Undying

[@sterbenvailrend1221]

A strange but over look feture you can use matching the cheese strat would be a nice supply of scrolls. Silence scroll can't be counter spelled though it's save is a bit weekend. Might be some more cheese when adding that into the equation. Or am I wrong and misread something?

[@luisspragg1546]

The way I'm going to run it eventually is use this as phase 1 battle and use the guide to the shadowfell book off of dm guilds stat block in which is insane

[@zackmarkham4240]

'Passive perception of 25, so you aren't sneaking up on him' (looks at the multiple times I've pulled off 40+ stealth checks on a non-optimized-for-stealth rogue/warlock) I beg to differ... as long as he is using his passive and not checking for it.

[@DDCRExposed]

1) Hilarious ad break as always 2) Good to see the D&D Shorts creative way to break and humiliate Vecna 3) Those monster fights are fun, right?

[@SageSaga25]

The most dangerous spellcaster ever printed? I recommend looking at Sul Khatesh on D&D Beyond from Eberron. You could make a great video on how to beat her, it's much more difficult than pre-god Vecna here.

[@GRIMHOOD99]

Silence being menace to magical society once again.

[@khalkotauroio2417]

"Basically just an Afterthought" HAH

[@kura1824]

Could make his dagger a dagger of blindsight and that would cover his forcecage weakness.

[@natelittmann7115]

Everybody forgot about Larlock...

[@jonathanmartin1610]

Truesight can see into the ethereal plane. Depending on what that is taken to mean, a good chunk of these strategies aren't viable.

[@Micah13579]

That's something I thought as well. Unless you can obscure vision in the Ethereal Plane, he should be able to use his teleport within the range of his Truesight. Though, the DM could rule that sight blocking effects also block sight in the Ethereal (think that's kind of bad since it would mean spells can affect the plane) or that seeing into the Ethereal doesn't provide equivalent sight into the Material. Then he'd be SOL.

[@ManrayO_O]

Note to self: Give Vecna Shield, Subtle Spell, and 3 legendary actions

[@dubsackken]

I get the recent hate for dnd but it’s refreshing to see content that is just fun again

[@gravy473]

This is unrelated, but did you hand-write that text in the thumbnail? Cause it looks pretty good. Nice penmanship man Unless it was computer-generated or from another person, regardless looks nice. That's all.

[@leonkr8493]

I guess if Vecna can be cheesed like that i should look into Tiamat more and think what my group could do to her if they reach them.

[@TheProteanGeek]

Yet in the end he isn't dead for good, just temporarily defeated. He comes back in his new body because he is a Lich after all. Next time he might even remember to bring some of his undead servants with him.

[@maeror1022]

I think I'm just going to make my own statblock for vecna tbh