How responsible was Walter White for the plane crash?

[@bullywhispers9544]

How responsible do you think Walt is?

[@gaboelexo]

They were just kids, walt tried to help just to back himself up, but he did try to help. Jane died because she did drugs.

[@hqmagnus]

Pretty responsible at least for Jane’s death. People often forget but Walt actually knocks Jane onto her back when he tries to wake up Jesse. Before that she was on her side, so when she threw up she wouldn’t choke. Not only did Walter break in, knock her on her back BUT he failed to save her as she was choking. Jane was not more responsible than Walt for her own death

[@domjfante8140]

⁠@@hqmagnusNope, she is inarguably the most responsible for her own death. Walt didn’t inject heroin into her veins, she did. Even if Walt had saved her, she could’ve very easily rolled on her back again on her own and had the same thing happen later that night. It was only a matter of time.

[@it.was.written]

He’s responsible for her death 100% due to him being the one who pushed her from a sleeping on her side position to sleeping on her back.

[@TicoHyuuga]

surprised this wasn't mentioned at all

[@bingecringe]

This is the answer. Would also like to hear a balanced discussion.

[@MiguelLopez-yc2rh]

That doesnt erase the responsability of Jessie returning her to her addiction problems and her willingly choosing to drug herself to a very dangerous level.

[@bingecringe]

@@MiguelLopez-yc2rh Walt pushed Jesse. Which caused Jane to roll over.

[@MiguelLopez-yc2rh]

@@bingecringe But that didnt really kill her. It was her overdosing AND Walter refusing to do something.

[@Bread_Media]

The events leading up the crash are a metaphor for Walt's actions as a whole throughout the show. By making the irresponsible, reckless and selfish decision to sell Meth in the first place, Walt set off a chain of events that lead to a series of catastrophes. Some of those he isn't directly responsible for, but they did occur because of things he chose to do. Furthermore, he didn't "fail" to save Jayne, he chose not to because he knew Jesse would be more easily manipulated with her out of the picture.

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

Jane didn't deserve to be saved, hell she got exactly what was coming to her.

[@IchamukoI]

@@hyperboliccancers3269 Jane deserves to be saved and helped, was the actions she was commiting wrong morally? Yes but that was also due to her addiction to substance. If she got clean, would she had got Jessie to do heroin? Would any of that happpen? No. Walt needed Jane out of the picture because of his own interests, not because she "Deserved" it or not.

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

@@IchamukoI Jane was awful manipulative bitch. Walt had every reason to kill her and it was in both his and Jessie's interest to let her succumb to her own actions. She got what she deserved.

[@Ocelot835]

You could argue that her death was inevitable though. Even if Walter did tried to save her, theres no guarantee Jane wouldn't slip next time and someone will manage to save her again at the last moment. Not to say that Walt shouldn't be there from the start. So the tragedy was already on the track to happen and outcome would be much of the same with him or without. And the most meaningful thing Walter actually did during Jane's death was get himself involved and determine that it will just happen sooner than later.

[@cmr_0333]

@@IchamukoIShe was clean, but at some point thought that doing it again was “worth it”. So it would inevitably happen whenever she or Jesse are depressed, and both will die in poverty. Walt simply saved Jesse from the bad influence, saving at least one of them. Remember that Jane was the one who suggested to use heroin, not Jesse

[@CaliIzActive]

when i watched that episode my only thought was " how often does this type of shit happens in real life"

[@fayevalentina77]

"He didn't harm jane, he just failed to help her," I don't feel this is quite accurate cause he easily could have helped her, but stopped himself and chose not to. You could say that was a failure but only in the sense that he did not do it, as he also didn't even try.

[@lizardpeople]

He didn't put that needle in her arm she did that to herself

[@fayevalentina77]

@@lizardpeople yeah, but he didn't roll her over to stop her from choking to death. He made a choice that was laid out right in front of him, he has nothing to do with the needle but he clearly could have helped and stopped himself because he thought she was gonna kill jesse/was blackmailing him, which was the whole point of the scene. He didn't shoot her up with heroin but he deliberately didn't stop her from dying, which is the whole morality of what happened. He was not just standing there helplessly, he let her die. It would be the same if someone shot someone and instead of trying to help and stop the bleeding with your hand, you just stood there and watched them bleed out. Were you responsible for the bullet? No, but you still didn't try to help.

[@lizardpeople]

@@fayevalentina77or heres an idea don't do heroin and you won't choke on your own vomit pretty simple lol

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

Who says Jane deserved to be saved from her own reckless actions, especially from someone she was antagonizing previously?

[@Sukuna214]

Walt has no obligation to help Jane.

[@parkerflournoy5331]

Unless my memory is completely shot. Jane is the one that suggests her and Jessie should use one more time before they go off on their new journey in life.

[@magicmoonmonke]

Technically yeah she kinda did it to herself but it says something that through this rube Goldberg type process Walt still manages to feel guilty or at least awkward about it rven at such a distance proxy

[@Monstrick1]

Walt is not responsible for Jaine's death, just for not trying to save her. I bet most of us would classify it as despicable, but it doesn't make him responsible. Plane crash is a secondary event that was not really foreseeable in any real way. He had no realization or intent, so, i doubt he can be counted as responsible. Yes, all people's fates are intertwined to so some extent, be we have to realize limits of our ability to recognize and predict effects of our actions and acts of others.

[@Monstrick1]

@aeoneditingservice It would or wouldn't happen because of other countless events and people. Because we witness events from one's point of view, it creates an illusion of almost complete responsibility, which is obviously false. Like nothing bad happens without Walt's involvement. You can't predict what would or wouldn't happen with any decent level of certainty, especially with timeline that long. You can imagine countless amount of scenarios of things ending out much worse and they would hold as much weight as your more positive ones.

[@ohno5507]

Her dying was purely because of Walt rolling her over. Even if it was completely unintentional, he caused her death. If I accidentally bump into a kid and he gets pushed into oncoming traffic, I'm still responsible for him being hit by a car because it was my recklessness and actions that directly led to him being in that position. If I was also, say, aware of him going to be knocked into traffic, and I had the opportunity to grab his arm and stop him from fully falling into the road, but chose not to, then I would be even more responsible. Walt rolling Jane over is what caused her to start choking on her vomit, he knew exactly what was happening and how to stop it, but didn't. Even if her choking wasn't part of his plan for trying to wake Jesse up, he still got her into that position and let it happen. Even if Jane has responsibility for using heroin to begin with, Walt still has responsibility.

[@Monstrick1]

@@ohno5507 I forgot about the rolling over part. That makes sense.

[@chipwanderlust113]

Walt caused her to roll over when he shook Jessie. Then decided to let her die uneccessarily. Her loving father was affected by her death, inturn affecting his abilities. So yeah, Walt was responsible. Jane could have gotten high and lived, had it not be for Walt entering their residence and triggering her death.

[@coleozaeta6344]

But she did a deadly amount of drugs. She chose to use it. Accountability.

[@fossfox]

​​@@coleozaeta6344 Braindead response. Nobody was saying Jane doing drugs wasn't partly to blame, they're pointing out that Walt rolled Jane onto her back and allowed her to choke on her own vomit (which also rebuffs your claim that she did a "deadly amount of drugs", it wasn't even an overdose that killed her). She wouldn't have done so if Walt hadn't been there, explicitly.

[@ArjunRoy-gp7co]

Walt shaking Jesse puts Jane on her back. So does this mean he has also failed in the negative obligation? Even if this was not an intended consequence of an act of caring (at least partly) for Jesse, it is still something that may well have not happened if he didn’t show up.

[@derendohoda3891]

That night. If Jane and Jessie ran off there was definitely a non-zero chance at least one of them was going to OD anyway.

[@MrYac-ie8ie]

you left Jesse out, he's more responsible than Walt is. not only for the drugs that caused the death, but he went along with her plan to blackmail Walt which is what brought him there to begin with.

[@sirgumby7140]

Jesse introduced the meth to Jane which led to Jane getting back into heroin...I do agree he's somewhat responsible though

[@BigManTinggz]

Walt is at least partially at blame due to the fact that he had the choice to help and flip her back over. He was going to but thought aboit his own selfish reasons to get jan oiut of the way because of his hold on jessie and the money situation. Its like if you see your freind drunk and with a girl that you wanted that night but he got in your way and instead of stoppinf him from driving drunk you banked on him crashing and get hurt or getting arrested. Probably a horrible example but the point is clear. Walt had that power in his hand and decided to let her choke due to wanting her out of the way so he can keep controlling jessie. Jessie couldve been daved from that tramua and the father wouldve still had a daughter and didnt have to greive so hard that he made a terrible mistake at an important job.

[@Sukuna214]

If someone is going to blackmail me, the last thing, I or any sane person would do, is help them.

[@mikeybroyo6230]

I think it had two reasons, 1. Keep jessie alive/ out of jail, which obviously wasn't going to happen with this girl 2. keep control over alive jessie

[@PolPotsPieHole]

Walter is responsible for the whole damn mess

[@PELTIER5]

Walt pretty much did "I won't kill, but I dont have to save you"

[@vaporwavevocap]

He rolled Jane on her back specifically, he caused it directly, even if accidental.

[@Ihyjayce]

Walt is partially responsible because he unintentionally made Jane roll onto her back when he was trying to wake up Jesse

[@masterzombie161]

I mean there’s a lot of responsible parties. Jesse introduced drugs back in her life, he also told her about Walter and helped black mail him to get the money. Jesse was depressed when Combo died because he put him on that corner without even considering the danger the spot posed on the off chance other dealers were there. Jane definitely was just looking for an excuse to do drugs again and Jesse definitely was her way back into to that. Walter yes could’ve saved her, but she definitely wouldn’t thank him or try to change. She would still try to blackmail Walt and have jesse keep doing drugs till he died.

[@DEarls-ye9tz]

He is responsible for Jane's death, but not responsible for the crash. Jane also may not be responsible for the crash. She is addicted, and therefore disabled, so she bears only diminished responsible. Jane's father is primarily responsible for the crash, as it's pointed out that he could have taken more time to mourn properly and chose not to. Jane's death didn't cause the crash. Her father's failure to take time off work during a time when he couldn't focus was the cause of the crash.

[@Delta_Aves_Mashups]

I feel the plane crash was a “test” for Walt to see how he can handle unexpected fallout(s) bigger than himself. The crash was a result of many things; Don’s grief-induced slip up, the employers that allowed him back despite his emotional state, the pilots taking the word of one air traffic controller etc. Walt isn’t solely responsible for such a disaster. He could’ve just acknowledged it and moved on, but the fact that he tries to downplay the event, and blame the government, shows he does feel responsible deep down, but doesn’t want to admit it. And this doubling down is what essentially leads him to make more reckless decisions with more disastrous outcomes.

[@nickw5682]

The sad thing is if Walt wasn’t there James death would’ve happened anyway. Him not interfering or helping leaves blood on his hands for Janes death but for the plane crash it’s pretty far removed, yet still so intertwined with the plot and Walter’s greater implications on the world around him.

[@Jackal_El_Lobo34]

Writing this before I see the video. In my opinion, Walt is indirectly responsible for the crash but it becomes evident later that he didn't have remorse. If anything, he showed a lot of self entitlement and aggression for the accident that he partially caused when was he's being pulled over by the cop when he was citing him for his damaged windshield. So I would say that even though he didn't directly cause the plane crash, he still feels pretty callous. Side Note: I think it goes without saying that Walt's temper tantrum with the cop was probably not the most Machiavellian thing do since he was on the police's radar for drug manufacturing at this point and while he didn't get caught for it, he certainly earned himself pepper-spray and his arrest when he chose to step out of the car to get into the cops face when he was spouting vitriol.

[@tyrellchibvongodze3566]

This is a tough one. First responsibility on Jane as she became greedy on knowing about cash, initiating the blackmail on Walt, and literally taking over Jesse's life. Yes Walt is responsible for not helping her, then again it was caused by how Jane acted towards him, she was a high risk factor in their venture. That doesn't absolve Walt, but Jane unknowingly caused Walt's reaction. He is a drug kingpin for goodness sake. The unfortunate circumstance was just fortuitous for Walt.

[@Kaika433]

You forgot to mention the fact that basically Walt killed Jane, not intentionally but he was the one that pushed her because he was trying to wake Jesse up and then Jane started choking and he let her die

[@chin-qo2tj]

Walter didn't just let her die, He killed her.

[@MordredMS]

For Jane's death, I think Walter is responsible at least 50% because failing to help when you have the opportunity to do so at literally no cost to yourself cannot be disregarded. As for the plane crash, though... I'd say Walter's responsibility is, at best, 0,5%. Like, do you know how many systems at place there are in air traffic control? Let me just say that, for that plane crash to happen, so many things would have had to go wrong at the same time that I don't think even a non-depressed, top-notch-condition Donald would have been able to prevent it; conversely, I will also say that if even one or two other failsafes had worked correctly, Donald wouldn't have been able to cause this crash even if he was actively and deliberately drying to.

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

The practicality and logistics and effort in Jane lives and Jane dies are pretty much equal and basically effortless. So Walt has a pure choice right here Jane lives or Jane dies. He chose Jane dies.

[@ryszardsikora6894]

He is directly responsible for her death because he's the one who pushed her onto her back, you could argue about whether that makes him more responsible than Jane herself, I personally don't care too much. While she did still decide to do the heroin of her own volition, probably bought the heroin and knew the risk that posed, he did literally kill her, as his action directly results in her death, which he also could've prevented with just the most basic ammount of effort.

[@ALLBLACKEVERYTHING12]

Jane wouldn't exist in their world if WW wasnt Heisenberg

[@ALCvideoprofile]

I mean Walter had no way of knowing those results. The real question I have is did he remove Jane from the equasion because he was concerned for Jessie's well being or because he wanted Jessie back on his side? maybe some of both? I feel like at this point in the story it was both but more because he cared about Jessie and saw him as a son. Idk, it's fucked up either way.

[@pogo8050]

It was superogatory for Walt to help Jane

[@MultiM117]

Sopranos: Why did Tony run from the FBI when Johnny Sack was arrested when its considered having no dignity? What did he have to lose beside a gun charge.

[@kennykrool74]

Not responsible in the slightest. The insinuation that he has a positive obligation to help Jane is bizarre. If he has that obligation, then he would have the same obligation to help Jesse who never would have got clean had Jane lived that night. In America, where the show is based, positive obligations are often ranked by familial or close friendship relations first. it would be expected that given the same obligation to help both Jesse and Jane not die from a heroin overdose in an alley somewhere, he would help Jesse first, or at the cost of Jane. He made a hard panicky decision in the moment without clear thought as to what would happen. This very limited idea that he was quasi responsible for the crash is dwarfed by his very real responsibility for Jesse being clean to the point it feels almost impossible to identify.

[@fossfox]

I disagree with you; Walt shares direct blame for Jane's death because she was sleeping peacefully on her side before Walt barged in looking for Jesse, during which the show explicitly shows her being jostled over onto her back. Walt is at least AS responsible for Jane's death as Jane herself is, putting her in a position where she was able to choke on her own vomit.

[@davidsmyth4184]

When Walt blew the bollo# out of yer man's (Jason, I think ?) BMW, he empowered himself as the smartest cun! In the room without actually putting himself forward as the smartest cun! In the room. As Vito said to Finn, don't pull that aw shucks shit with me !!!!!!!!

[@costelo_6297]

He kind of caused it, but it wasn't his responsibility.

[@charliepalmer3244]

Walt bears no responsibility.

[@Hriskataaa]

well, directly, its all other people's fault, but there is that saying: -> Not doing the right thing, while knowing the right thing is still wrong... Idk, damn junkies would of ended up like this anyway, sooner or later

[@samuelankamaah1735]

100% guilty

[@laurenpeterson9510]

First

[@Hornetog9vp]

None: My boi Walter was just helping home out. He was just get rid of a Yoko Ono. When you think about it he was a hero.

[@Maniahg]

Walt was an amazing guy he did nothing wrong! 🥺