How "Save the Cat!" might ruin your novel (and what to use instead).

[@miaramck6746]

People confuse the beautiful with the smooth -Jon Vervake (might not be an exact quote)

[@BookFurnace]

That's a fitting quote, unless you are referring to my shaved head, which, I insist, is both smooth and beautiful, haha :)

[@ndbern42]

I really like your take on over-templating stories! In my opinion, this just leads to some sort of a super mainstream that people will be afraid to "disobey", editors and writers alike. It's just going to lead to even more homogenous story structure, in the film and book industry. Making indie content becomes even more of a gamble because of these types of formula that claim to be the one right way to do things, so I aree with you that we should just apply what we like about them and not feel the pressure to use the structure like cookie cutters :))

[@BookFurnace]

Thank you! Yes, a unified "super mainstream" is a good way to put it, and I deeply hope that we can still escape it.

[@grimreads]

In my humble opinion all structured methods are useful to see what is working and njot working in a novel. I read Save the Cat Writes a Novel midway through a draft that was not quite working and realized my plot was hitting most of the beats but there were a couple of it that were not there at all. Once included it all rolled much better. Even when writing mementos it is a good practice to know the "proper" way in order to subvert it or work around it (and I don't recall Memento precicely, but I believe one can re-edit it in a way to conform to Save the Cat)

[@BookFurnace]

Thank you for your comment! I largely agree. These methods can provide solutions when things don't work and when the writer is stuck and unsure how to fix it, it's their main benefit. One funny thing, however, is that although good stories often "follow" specific structures, it does not mean that starting with a structure is the best way to create these good stories. Sometimes one can write a story and only retrospectively realize that it fits some template. It's especially clear when it comes to the "hero's journey" template. None of the myths and folk tales were invented by trying to follow the template, it's the other way around. Overall, I am all for using templates to help yourself when something isn't working, but I'm somewhat against using templates to judge whether things are working or not. If the story is good - there is probably some template that'd fit it one way or another. If the story is a pleasure to read, if it keeps the reader engaged and satisfied, but does not fit any template - we need to revise the templates, not the story.

[@ginasmith590]

I'm glad you made this video because I felt that Save The Cat wasn't right for me with the beats, my work didn't fit it.

[@neosapienz7885]

You are spot on here. Really appreciate your perspective. I read both ‘Save the Cat’ books-as well as the ‘Story Engineering’/‘Story Physics’ books. They’re on my shelf and I’m glad to have taken their advice to get me over that initial hump. (I tell stories like Edith Bunker in the sitcom “All in the Family”.) But alas, the cat dies in all my stories, in one form or other, and that’s just the way it is. The advice in those books, like all advice, only goes so far. I have to write what I see on the big screen in my head, whether it fits or doesn’t. I’d like to get published some day, but it’s not a primary motivation for me. The stories motivate me and when my hamster-on-a-wheel life gets in the way of my writing, I get cranky. Thanks for what you do.

[@BookFurnace]

Thank you for your kind words! And best of luck with publishing. It's crazy how tricky it is to do, but I hope it works out for you!

[@TheStarMachine2000]

National Novel Writing Month? Sounds like fun!

[@BookFurnace]

It is, although it's a bit of a crazy pace. I think we should make the same for short stories - much more manageable :)

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

It should be mandatory for it'll improve literacy.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

I tried it once and it was a good impetus to get me out of the plotting phase and kickstart me just writing a first draft, but it can also be intimidating if you let it. I also found after my first experience with it how much my improvisational writing (although I had set out a chapter by chapter outline of goals for the story) felt rushed and I think I forgot to infuse some of it with creativity because I was focused on hitting the plot points in my outline. Made me look back on what I wrote thinking I needed to go back and re-do a lot of the environments and cultures in a major revision or re-write.

[@BookFurnace]

@@glenn_r_frank_author thank you for sharing! Yes, I feel that I also have a point in terms of writing speed, such that, if I push past it, I basically write throwaway stuff that I then have to rewrite completely.

[@annejia5382]

there's also Camp NaNoWriMo during April & July which are almost the same, with lesser participants and are much better months for other people (less busy months for others on school breaks or summertime) 💙

[@tedarcher9120]

Memento was written specifically to subvert hollywood screenwriting formula, so I don't think it counts as a counter example, like if a new artist said "I don't need to learn composition, I can just paint Black Squares all day, it worked for Malevich.

[@thentheric6361]

I'm working on converting a sequential dream journal memoir into a psychological fantasy novel (if this sounds overly esoteric and meta, you're spot on), and one of the wierd things is how the source material seems to follow standard plot structures and utilizes tropes efficiently, which feels reassuring to me as an amateur looking to self-publish.

[@BookFurnace]

That sounds great! I'd imagine that the hardest part is adding some kind of throughline that would connect different dreams. Good luck with your project, I hope it works out!

[@thentheric6361]

@@BookFurnace Thank you! However, these dreams are a single storyline with an incredible amount of vivid details preserved in the journal, and the more difficult part is being the scribe and not the dreamer, having to pay attention to both the functional requirements of the written medium and the integrity of the inconveniently intricate plot of almost three years' bullet-lists - 382,157 words in 169 chapters and 44 pending fragments, to be precise with a pre-draft conversion ratio of 117.59%. I also struggle with "you-know" syndrome as well, where I lack some vocabulary or 'acquaintance' with the characters to exactly know e.g. their body language or proper voice, or just some additional details to describe the environment.

[@bulbasaurbrutal5137]

Based on the video title, I thought saving the cat was going to refer to the ticking clock scenario, sometimes when someone has to be rescued from certain doom. I thought I'd be writing a comment that would go "Se7en didn't save the cat." Turns out the cat was something quite different!!

[@PelenTan]

I never break the rules. I set the rules. I am creating a science fiction work of art. Hopefully one as timeless as the science fiction Nostradamus put out. Not even grammar rules are sacred as more than half of the story centers around aliens. Some of whom are kinda pissed that we abandoned the rules they gave us.

[@fidelpeters8322]

🙋 𝚙𝚛𝚘𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚖

[@brettbaker5599]

Mad Genius Club has good writing advice.