How Shirley Jackson exposed the horror of home life

[@CharlieApples]

Shirley Jackson was such a badass master of horror. Her story _The Witch_ is about a sweet old man who goes around teaching young boys tales of violent misogyny under the guise of women being witches, and everyone just laughs it off as an old man telling stories, when in fact, he is the witch, indoctrinating children into evil.

[@books_ncats]

Totally! We made a video on ‘The Witch’ a little while ago if you’re interested ☺️ - Rosie

[@availanila]

​@@books_ncats😮 I'll have to read this.

[@druidsongevergreens]

I cannot find the Witch at the library or on audible. Any rec for finding it?

[@availanila]

@@druidsongevergreens I found it here on KZbin. It's a short listen.

[@falconeshield]

Reminds me of a certain Taint

[@GCatlord]

These remind me of a horror story my own mother wrote (and published!) where a nurse (mother and breadwinner) goes through her day in the zombie apocalypse, but nothing's changed. Her husband (zombie) is locked away in his room were he'd normally spend his time gaming on the computer alone, and her son (based on me! also, zombie) is in the basement, where he'd usually hole himself up because he's a teen who doesn't want to spend time with his family. She goes to work, does her job, gets food for the family (all brains, of course, aside from herself), and comes home to feed them all and take care of the house. She treats her family completely normally, because, realistically, their dynamic hasn't changed, despite her whole family being undead. The warped but familiar home dynamics just felt similar to me, hearing about Shirley's stories for the first time. It was called "Just another day" (published in the First Time Dead anthology!) and I'd like to note- while I do still live in the basement, I do spend a lot more time with my mum to make up for being an angsty teen zombie in her story.

[@margueritejacobs6404]

I love that concept, that's so brilliant

[@stephgreen3070]

That is…blindingly brilliant, and something I can very much relate to. High five to your mum! She’s sounds extremely clever and amazing. (I have my own family of zombies, minus the dog. I think she might be impervious to the zombie virus because she hangs out with me no matter where I go or what I’m doing.)

[@bakedpotato1717]

I love how proud you are of your mom :) I’ll check it out!

[@ChillyIllie]

Thats awesome

[@FallacyBites]

Your mom is so BadAss

[@DJarry394]

During WWII my mother worked as an editor at Dunne and Bradstreet. My father forced her to quit because she earned more than he did in the Navy. I am certain she resented him throughout raising us. We would have been better off financially instead of struggling in home of five kids

[@Mastermint]

what a douche nozzle

[@andeannafarnes4719]

So many husbands did that to their wives in the past. Having a working wife diminished their masculinity. They would sometimes go as far as physical violence to deter ♀️spouses from working outside the home. I was a 1970's teenage witness.

[@Ilovebirdgag]

That sucks. She's got my full sympathy.

[@CovenoftheOpenMind]

If someone tried to force me to quit, I'd be wondering where to stash the body too. How did they "force" it though? Why did women live like this for so long? I understand it objectively, but trying to imagine ever letting myself be treated this way is just impossible to me.

[@janecklyn]

​@@CovenoftheOpenMindbecause they were raised that way. Hell, wives were considered property, not persons.

[@AskALibbieist]

In The Renegade, I also think it’s thematically significant that the dog everyone is talking about torturing and killing with such normalized glee is female, and called “Lady.”

[@ehngee]

i totally agree with you! i also thought it was significant how the dog was grouped in with the children wishing her harm - seems reminiscent of women who don’t recognize their own oppression and will gleefully go along with it in order to blend in further to their social role (like ‘tradwives’ who support antifeminist movements and think their lack of agency, choice, rights etc is its own kind of salvation, or are so frightened by the conservative environment they’ve found themselves in that they think their enthusiastic support will protect them as an outlier to Women at large)

[@SuziQ.]

I thought it was odd that Lady’s panting was interpreted as smiling. Dogs pant to cool off, or when they’re stressed. It could be excited stress, like going for a car ride, etc., but I wouldn’t equate it with smiling.

[@ScorpioQueen420]

I caught that too

[@TimCurryRat]

Maybe that's why she could also feel the metaphorical collar around her neck with spikes

[@stephaniewozny3852]

I just keep thinking of Disney's Lady from _Lady and the Tramp._ And it makes me more sad.

[@SabreBash]

You start to think about how even the female protagonists themselves are only identified by their married status and the last name of the man they married. No first names; they are reduced only to their role.

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

US citizens are among the foreigners in Denmark, who gets surpriced when they find out that by law, a married womean have to have her own bank account and hand in her own tax returns. Don't worry Girl, it's not like the US, where it takes a day to fill in the papers! It's just 5-10 minuttes in front of the computer: Travellin' Youngs have made a video about this subject, if you're curious: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqjJiZ6jq8-Mhdk

[@SabreBash]

That's wonderful that they can, but I'm not sure why it would be that much of a surprise, as women in the USA have been allowed to have their own bank account since 1974, and in some places the 1960s. @@ane-louisestampe7939

[@SabreBash]

@@ane-louisestampe7939 I'm happy they have those rights, but i'm not sure that this would be a surprise to any American citizens, as women have had the right to open their own bank accounts since the 1970s, and in some cases since even further back than that.

[@franjkav]

@@SabreBashnotice they said have to have and you said have the right to have…

[@ane-louisestampe7939]

@@SabreBash There's a step between having the right to and having to. As I understand, married women from the US don't have their own tax returns, but disappears in to their husbands. Is that correct?

[@hobocode]

i'm a disabled housewife who cannot escape my home. and i can relate to this very much. it is comforting to hear my suffering is not just "all in my head"

[@LuzMaria95]

🫂

[@katella]

😮

[@books_ncats]

I hadn’t thought about this topic in relation to disability, thanks for sharing this. I hope your situation improves - Rosie

[@yehmen29]

If you haven't read it already, you may like Charlotte Perkins' short story The Yellow Wallpaper. It is very morbid though and does not have a happy ending.

[@LuzMaria95]

@@yehmen29 i read that one already. i love it so much. it’s one of my favorite short stories.

[@555sothis6]

Reading Shirley Jackson stories is like being in the company of an intelligent friend who understands certain aspects of the human psyche that might go unnoticed by others. She's totally clued up on the subtle and quiet evil that some humans possess and exposes this in her work. The Lottery was the most unsettling story I've read in my whole life

[@books_ncats]

I agree, she totally is! - Rosie

[@kathyinwonderlandl.a.8934]

Made to read it in Jr high…it helped me forget my desperate home life , which was a godsend.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

I HATED the lottery. But I get it gives a good moral....

[@RayF6126]

I HATED the lottery too. I hated that instead of stopping the killing system the people were so relieved to not be extremely victimized today that they indulged their emotions in extreme violence. Then left everyone available to be quietly victimized by a standing threat later. It's bad but no longer horrible so it's tolerated.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

@@RayF6126 Yes! A kindred spirit! But I've heard discussion about the lottery being an example of how older generations are determined to hang onto tradition. Even if said tradition is harmful to others.

[@jws1948ja]

My mother described herself as passive. What that meant is that she watched me being tortured and she did nothing. She justified herself by saying that she had "good intentions." The road to hell is paved with "good intentions."

[@junejunejuniejune]

I relate to your comment as I was raised by an abusive grandfather and my grandmother did nothing to stop him. she would always just go outside and smoke till the screaming stopped. neglect is a form of abuse. What helped me to forgive her was to realize that she was also a victim. She didn't do the right thing, but she was scared and beaten down too.

[@LoneWulf278]

@@junejunejuniejunethat’s often the case. 😢

[@alimica]

my grandmother did the same when my sister and i told her about how her son was abusing our mom. for years since she was such a comfort and her home was always so nice and she always seemed so sweet i looked past it, thinking she only wanted the best for us even if she couldnt stop what was happening, but that wasnt true. she just didnt like my mom enough to speak up to my father, and let us suffer too as collateral damage. when we had to go live with her and i cried to her again about what happened she told me "i get it, my father was abused, my mother would beat him bloody and my sister would try to comfort him afterwards" as if the fact that she went through something similar made it okay at all. it makes it worse, you know how it feels, why would you let your grandchildren suffer the same way? all of this to say i agree, neglecting to remedy violence is participating in said violence

[@tiahnarodriguez3809]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@alimica I have the same sentiments. A person can be both a victim and a perpetrator. Having victim status is not an excuse for being a perpetrator, but it can provide context. My family is full of victims that are perpetrators, and while I understand the context behind why, I could never forgive them because they still choose to be perpetrators and use their victim status as an excuse to hurt me. While I have been victimized, I don’t see myself as a victim per se, more like I’m just surrounded by people who are not capable of putting in the work to heal themselves and do better. This goes for many of my peers as well. I think it’s really good that you see your grandmother’s hypocrisy, and you realized what was really going on because it can help you to not fall for any tactics that perpetrators use to try to keep you as a participant in their games. That’s what freed me from my perpetrators hold even though I don’t forgive them.

[@nettorak]

I'm a freetime-writer that tries to get their traumata right - and how to _heal_ them. I had to read a few books and I found "The body keeps the score" by van der Kolk really good and Pete Walker altogether. The latter has a website where you can check out if his work fits your situation. He focuses on overcoming complex PTSD, which is the form that occurs after repetitive traumatic events, like a really shitty childhood. I'd recommend starting with "The 4Fs: A Trauma Typology in Complex PTSD". You can list further helpful books, if you'd want. I personally search for good factual books that describe first hand experience of any sort of [c]PTSD, so I can handle it realistically and with respect in my writing. All the best wishes to you all from me and a hug, if you want.

[@kimf1993]

Nothing is scarier than 24/7 cleaning and childcare with no help from a partner. *shiver* Edit: Why is there so much discussion under this post? I didn’t specify any gender or circumstances. The nuclear family isn’t traditional, it’s a blip in human history. My house holds three generations (a more traditional set up). The kids have 5 adults caring for them and it’s still challenging- it takes a village. It’s too much for one person to be doing all the domestic/childcare labor for a home, especially with current cultural ideas about how much kids need to be supervised. It would be isolating and exhausting to do it alone.

[@LuzMaria95]

that’s a fact.

[@bleaf_]

I absolutely would lose my mind if my husband and I didn't have a pretty equal share of duties (and I include him having a job along with that - I may not be employed but I essentially am "on call" 24/7). Can't imagine how any of these women did it.

[@kellybeck4579]

​@@bleaf_They didn't. Suicide was common for housewives. No fault divorce drastically dropped female suicide rates.

[@yeet1066]

​@@kellybeck4579or they would be drugged up on meth, or lobotomized

[@bleaf_]

@@kellybeck4579 Jesus Christ. I had a feeling that was the answer but I hate to be right

[@lanaharper9798]

Miss ma’am was paid a grand per short story in 20th century dollars?? Man today’s writers really don’t get paid SHIT, huh

[@gadgetgirl02]

There's a stat that circulates on social media: in Little Women, Jo received $100 for her first published short story (in the 1860s). Nowadays you're lucky to get cash at all. Often you are only paid in printed copies. I did get paid cash for my first published short story. I was lucky enough to be accepted by a national magazine. And yes -- I got $100, in the 2010s.

[@catherinecrawford2289]

SO TRUE! My first paid gig I got $400 and thought cool, I'm gonna get rich. The next 50 gigs paid $25 to $50. Once I made $1600 and that was a one time thing. Too much content drove the price down.

[@tomoko7584]

yes but compared to male artists, its still very little

[@NoelleTakestheSky]

LOL, oh, darling, even without adjusting for inflation, that would be GOOD pay by today’s standards! $1,000 is more than I’ve heard anyone get for a short story now. $1,000 in the 1950’s is about $11,500 now. For a SHORT story. The pay is worse now than ever.

[@miriamb450]

@@NoelleTakestheSky Yes, the phrase "today's writers really don't get paid shit" definitely indicates a belief that Jackson was very well compensated, in contrast to today's writers who (often) don't make nearly as much. Your inflation calculation is interesting information but there's no need to frame it as a "gotcha" because the original commenter is clearly aware of the point you were trying to make with it.

[@BewitchCraft]

The more I learn about Shirley Jackson the more I love her. Its like she was attuned to the blood thirstiness of mankind and its pervasive grip on those around us. How a neighbor can bring you a plate of cookies for a sunday potluck then suggest you murder your own dog in a gruesome way or volunteer at the local church fundraiser, while secretly hoping your name gets pulled from the little wooden box and the delight of picking up the heaviest rock to stone you. I feel the same ick from that reading some of the comment sections under news headlines. The ambivalence some people have about violence upon others. The quietness while witnessing injustice. The grim reality of keeping traditions for traditions sake. My struggle is we learn nothing. Thats the psychological horror for me.

[@jeanettesdaughter]

Well I’m Black and female so I get all of that. People may smile and smile and still be a villain. En garde! Love her.

[@ad6417]

You cannot murder a dog.

[@sentienttapioca5409]

​@@ad6417 Not by any legal definition, but definitely by the social understanding of the word.

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

​​@@ad6417 Why the fuck is that your take away??? On lists much? 🤨Sus af

[@rootzero]

💕❤️💫✨️🌟✨️💫❤️💕

[@Snowfoxie1]

I’ve been working with children since I was a child. From babysitting to summer camp counseling to museum docent to children’s librarian to teacher, childcare has been an amazing adventure, but often a terrifying one. From worrying about their safety from outside threats (and I’m in America where the outside threats just keep getting bigger and scarier), to listening to the imaginatively unhinged things they say with pure innocence, it can be super unnerving to work with kids. Shirley Jackson articulates this unique horror PERFECTLY.

[@Blytheunicornino]

​@@eskede4733?

[@Snowfoxie1]

@@eskede4733 not a Shirley Jackson fan?

[@Snowfoxie1]

@@eskede4733 I’m not saying it’s risky. I’m saying kids say weird things because they don’t know better. In Dr. Rosie’s analysis of The Witch she goes into more detail about it. As for outside threats, there’s a mass sh-ting here every few days. I live one town over from Uvalde where one of the worst school sh-tings in history occurred, and that terror is still fresh here. There are signs outside the schools here warning that the teachers are armed and ready to engage. I’ve led many active sh-ter drills with preschool aged children. Try explaining to a group of 4-year-olds why we’re practicing hiding in a closet, then roll your eyes.

[@williamchamberlain2263]

Children are the true eldritch horrors.

[@Waspinmymind]

@@eskede4733Being a part of child care includes hostile adults? Never met an angry parent before? Also stop playing ‘I have it so much worse’ card. You aren’t a grade school student. Behave.

[@gadgetgirl02]

Re: Mrs Harris... I know someone whose parents moved house the same week the wife gave birth to her first child. She spent a week in hospital, recovering from a difficult labour, while her husband dealt with the actual house-moving. When she returned home with their newborn/firstborn, nothing had been unpacked except the main bedroom's bedlinens, her husband's clothes, and, in the kitchen, one cup, one plate, one fork, one spoon, and one knife.

[@girlsuckmydick]

This would send me into a full nuclear level meltdown that would leave me behind bars, and him in dirt. Please tell me that woman escaped :(

[@gadgetgirl02]

@@girlsuckmydick Um, eventually? But that baby was in their 20s when it happened.

[@CovenoftheOpenMind]

Wow.

[@danielamato5168]

JESUS

[@glitteryfaery]

weaponized incompetence is a very insidious sort of domestic abuse

[@monicamosack9604]

I was struck by my reaction to hearing, “You’ve got to do something about the dog.” It chilled me to the bone. This has been my life! It’s made me realize that the protection of my innocent animals has been the terror of my life. I’m always worried when my dog “misbehaves” in some way and I feel like his life is in danger from someone who doesn’t love him as much as I do. It’s absolutely the worst terror I can think of and the stuff of my nightmares.

[@chrisogrady28]

Consider veganism 💚

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

​@@chrisogrady28 What does that have to do with anything?

[@chrisogrady28]

@@thing_under_the_stairs I'm shocked you need to ask. "I feel like his life is in danger from someone who doesn't love him as much as I do". This is the terror we face when thinking about animal agriculture

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@chrisogrady28 You realise that this sort of response is what turns people off of vegans in general, right? It's why I avoid vegans the way I avoid evangelicals of any sort. You people need a new act, because this one isn't winning new converts. I'm mostly vegetarian, but right now, I want to go out and eat a great big burger just out of spite for your self-righteousness.

[@chrisogrady28]

@@thing_under_the_stairs unfortunately advocates for change can't always tone down the messaging to appeal to the psychology of others, I'm sorry that you are to weak to hear the message, it might take you some time to comprehended, but we can't just tip toe our way around 'you people' becuase you're too sensitive to hear the truth

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

You wanna know isolation? Be a stay at home mother. I listen to KZbin people talk and teach me things because there are complete days where i do not speak with another adult. I rarely leave my home, and if i do, its in service to the rest of my family and taking care of my elderly family members. Isolation is not having peers and living to serve others without anyone ever taking a single beat to see if you need anything.

[@Biiku_]

In my case, do it in the arctic during a pandemic. But the isolation remained the same whether I was in a big city like DC or quarantined in interior Alaska. It has less to do with physical isolation, in my case, than it does an emotional and mental and psychological isolation. It feels the same. And how do you explain it to anyone else how that possibly is a fact over years of observation.

[@debbylou5729]

There are probably das where your children never hear an adult, as well

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

@@debbylou5729 explain Because it sounds to me like you're calling me childish, and if that is the case, I urge you to seek out why you feel it necessary to shit on random strangers. You literally go out of your way to do that? Perhaps you should invest in yourself, some hobbies, and find some class somewhere.

[@kaitwhy8337]

I had my first in December 2019. It was 1 month of bliss and 3 months of horror. And then the pandemic started. And everyone was in the same boat as me, but not. It was weird AF. I feel like so many people missed the rare opportunity to truly experience as others do.

[@kassassin_brahgawk]

@@debbylou5729 did someone forget to take their pills today? Do better.

[@katella]

I grew up in a house of horror. Being a lover of literature, I tried to listen to this but had to leave. My heart is racing.

[@AnEmu404]

I was thinking of people who suffered domestic abuse and anything bad in their homes when she introduced the video. The home, for many people, is not and never has been a safe space. Sometimes when something is too triggering you just have to leave it be, hope you’re doing okay

[@catherinecrawford2289]

Are you safe now? I hope so. I do understand.

[@danielcantiego9374]

We live in a Thriller

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@AnEmu404 As I was watching this video, I made the realisation that my current apartment is the first place where I've felt at home in a good, safe, way since I was 7. I'm now in my 40's. Sometimes recovery takes a long time, but it's possible.

[@allluvin7977]

I laugh the pain away 😂 like wow all that verbal abuse thrown from my dad ñ, he could have chilled out

[@KatieAndCatburger]

The way you connected a frying donuts in a kitchen as an alienating symbol of safety, confidence, and even power, really reminded me of domestically oriented tik tokers and how that confidence, safety, and power is kind of the allure of the fantasy they're selling. These ideas haven't gone away, still so relevant! Thanks for your analysis, I really appreciate your reading videos even more now!

[@RayF6126]

The problem displayed here as someone who moved recently is that my previous location suited my skills as a cook because I had already organized it. I feel like as I adjust my new home that I have lost part of myself because I burnt pancakes the other night. My neighbor dropped off food as a welcome gift, it was beautifully done. I had to remind myself that moving caused the chaos not me. But the frustration and lack of confidence almost smacked me.

[@KatieAndCatburger]

@@RayF6126 that is sooo real, all the little things we never think about that make up the infrastructure of a good life, like knowing a good dry cleaner nearby, just POOF disappear. BEYOND maddening. Best of luck with the new home!!

[@katiefrankie6]

@@RayF6126I never realized until my sister pointed it out that moving or renovating can be deeply psychologically disturbing.

[@sweetcherry7759]

The stories are all about basically never speaking up and the consequences of that. “I have no mouth but I must scream”

[@catherinecrawford2289]

I was mad for Shirley Jackson as a young woman and I remember realizing that Stephen King's mundane details and his ability to make the normal horrific must have been inspired in some way by the master of the mundane horror, Shirley Jackson. Another writer who did this was a predecessor, Oliver Onions. Thank you for this video!

[@tripunk]

Yes! I believe Stephen king has said he was inspired by or admired Shirley Jackson, something to that effect!

[@darkwitnesslxx]

He has mentioned several times In several of his forwards and non-fiction works how much he was impressed with her work. He's written at least half a dozen books he freely admits were directly inspired by Shirley Jackson.

[@leelahsboots]

I was a Mrs. Harris for 20 years until 2000. Shirley Jackson got everything spot on. Even just listening to the story brought back the feeling of constant nauseating dread. That pit in my stomach. My only consolation is I didn't have children....

[@lindaharrison3240]

I've read 4 of her books but I've never heard the term "domestic horror." Menace is very hard to convey; it seems like it's a personal trigger and how can a writer even know how to hit that note? Makes her work even more startling.

[@danielyoung5137]

The thing with Shirley is: the domestic humor comes from her haplessness to control what seems to be a normal household situation. Always funny, always charming. She expertly pulls the reader into the burgeoning chaos and bonds with them over her admitted inability to deal with it the way she’s sure any other woman on the block could. Domestic “horror” is handled differently: No sweet details, no chummy first person narrative- this is…skewed. Get out or watch it twist inexplicably beyond your control.

[@OfficialROZWBRAZEL]

much of horror is (or comes from) being deprived of agency and, well...

[@phylliselizahb1041]

We moved into "the countryside" where "neighbors" stole all the vegetables we planted & killed a few fruit trees during theft. Friends who work w/inner city kids doing gardening are appalled. Yes, there's a bit o'theft, but nothing wholesale like my parents experienced. Small town isn't as presented in media @ all.

[@MissSeaShell]

I lived out in the country and ALL of my neighbors were absolutely unhinged!! There was one family that was basically a tiny Baptist cult. They weren't allowed to watch tv or eat anything that wasn't healthy whole foods, but like, to an extreme degree. They were obsessively Christian and the 8 kids were all super weird. One of them ate so many carrots that her skin had a constant orange hue. The kids reveled in tattling and getting people in trouble, again to an extreme degree, like gleefully sadistic and cruel. They had a litter of puppies once and two of the younger kids wanted to show me.. they brought me over and proceeded to laugh as they strangled the puppies. Not to death, just.. for fun. Now for the worst part.. the oldest daughter was the outcast of the family, they were deeply ashamed of her. As a teen she rebelled, went out and partied with friends, dressed in revealing goth clothes etc, and then she got pregnant. I swear to God this is all true and I'm not exaggerating. They forced her to have and keep the baby, but they took the baby away from her and raised him as if he was the child of the grandparents (the teen girl's parents). They kept her LOCKED UP in the basement, 24/7 for YEARS. I met her before all the crazy shit, she was a totally normal person with no apparent mental health struggles. She was more normal than the rest of them, I actually looked up to her because I thought the way she dressed was cool. When they locked her in the basement, they told all of the other kids (and me, and everyone else) that she was down there because she was sick, that she was schizophrenic. It was like a thing the kids gossipped about in hushed whispers. The parents didn't tell everyone this part but, what they told the kids was that she was schizophrenic because she was evil, possessed by the devil. None of the kids were even allowed to go down and talk to her. I remember one time when the parents were gone, the kids snuck me downstairs to see her and it was this big deal... She didn't say anything, just sat there in her little room and stared. No one ever did anything for her. Everyone believed she was just sick and they were "taking care of her". No, I know she wasn't.. I know they locked her away because she didn't follow their strict religious rules and then she shamed the family by getting pregnant as a teen, out of wedlock. They literally kept her down there for the rest of her life. Eventually, they'd let her go outside when she wanted to, but this was after like, at least 10 maybe 15 years of isolation and abuse. She was a completely different person. Like, just, vacant. She would wander the neighborhood alone, dressed in really strange clothes, like wearing a huge fur coat in the middle of summer, with her hair up in a shower cap, and thick messy makeup smeared all over her face. Smeared bright red lipstick and bright blue eyeshadow from the eye all the way up to her eyebrows. She especially walked around at night. She was always looking for cigarettes. My mom smoked so she came over a lot asking for cigarettes, but she had other neighbors she asked too. She never said more than that. Never made small talk or any kind of conversation. Just a really flat "I need cigarettes", or she just wouldn't say anything because my mom already knew what she was there for and would just hand her a pack and she'd leave. One time my parents were both gone, I was older like 19 but didn't have a car at the time, I wasn't really living there anymore just staying a few weeks during a rough patch. Anyway though my parents were both gone and it was like 8pm and dark out. There were no cars in the driveway and I had the lights off, just watching TV in the upstairs living room. It looked like no one was home, and she just walked into my house and went downstairs and started searching around for cigarettes. She didn't know I was there. I was scared at first then saw it was her and just gave her some and she left without saying anything. She lived like this for another like, 7 years or so.. she was in her 30s.. and one night she went out looking for cigs, but it was like midnight so she couldn't go knocking on doors, so she walked all the way to the nearest 24 hour gas station, which was about 5 miles away, down an unlit two lane country road. She was hit by a car that couldn't see her and.. she died. Fucking sad, and insane and fucked up man. This is mild compared to that but, also, the mom told me my eyes are green because the devil marked me. She told me that when I was like 6 years old 😬 THEN, I had another neighbor who HATED my dogs... Tbf they were unruly because my parents were horrible dog owners who were too lazy to train them but decided to get a husky and a chow, two of the most difficult breeds.. I tried my best but I was just a kid. One time I was chasing the chow through that guy's field, and when I caught her he came over and pointed a shot gun directly at me and my dog, while I crouched down holding onto her so she wouldn't run off again, and crying. The same guy purposely ran over my other dog, the husky. I could tell more stories about more crazy rural neighbors but those were the worst.

[@DoritoBot9000]

The less socially adapted a community is, the more hostile they will behave. Unless you’re in a very poor area within a city, people are more used to other people and far less paranoid.

[@uwaargh500]

​@@MissSeaShellJesus christ

[@JimTheCurator]

​@@MissSeaShellThis is very easily the most disturbing comment I've ever seen on this website. Jesus Christ.

[@caramel9154]

@@MissSeaShell do you need a hug?

[@agingflowerchild]

I was the daughter of such a woman, born when she was 19, it didn't go well. Took me a while to realize that she was a young child during the Great Depression, when every adult in the country was terrified, and a teen during WW2. Today we know how that war ended -- in the 1940s they did not. Anxiety worldwide.Very well educated. The 1950s culture screamed that women were 'less than.' As a girl child of that era, I'm still crawling from the wreckage. But in the 60s, at least in my part of the world, there was suddenly more air to breathe. My mother was sick with jealousy, toxic, demeaning. Peace Corps let me put half a world between us. RIP.

[@screaminggecko7660]

Im glad you were able to get out. Breaking cycles can be very difficult

[@ym10up]

I always think that because she endured such emotional abuse from her husband, it's rather understandable that her view of the domestic life is not all sunshines and laughter. I remember feeling really indignant about the way her husband treated her.

[@teresachaotic.corner]

"No live organism can continue for long to exist under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." My absolute favorite opening line in a novel, so much so that I quote it... just randomly, as I perform my domestic chores. Just discovered your channel and I love how you talk about Shirley Jackson and gothic lit, the merging of my two most favorite things ever. P.S. I wish I had your voice and your accent.

[@teresachaotic.corner]

If you ever take requests, I vote for Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast Trilogy which is rarely talked about on YT but somehow I have a feeling you will hit it out of the park. 🥰

[@improbableopera793]

@@teresachaotic.corner oh my goodness I haven't read Gormenghast since middle school, and haven't thought about it in years. I could only get through the first book, because while I loved it, the writing style was a bit laborious for my poor thirteen year old mind to decipher. Thank you for reminding me of the series' existence and bumping it back onto my reading list :)

[@Revelwoodie]

Housewife here! Been a housewife for more than 20 years now. Yes, you're right that you can be living waist deep in some of these emotions, and still love your family. That's part of the reason women never talk about these feelings, because you immediately feel like you have to defend yourself on that front -- "Of course I love them! I wouldn't have it any other way." I'd never read any of these stories, so I'm glad I found this video. Based on your descriptions, I think you pretty much nailed what the author was going for. There's a kind of alienation that a housewife feels that is completely unique: 1) The Renegade: You usually manage to convince yourself that it's "us against the world," "us" being yourself, your husband, and your kids. The events with the dog, culminating in the horrible scene with her children and the spiked collar, make it clear to her that there is no "us." Her husband, her kids, even her dog, are all part of "them." She's completely alienated from them. The renegade isn't the dog, it's her. 2) Of Course: Similar theme of being completely isolated and alienated. Even the one-on-one interaction with the new neighbor, which should be a place where they are defining a new relationship, is completely out of their hands. Nothing they do or say has anything to do with them, but rather the husband (who isn't even there). The horror for Mrs. Taylor is that she realizes Mr. Harris isn't only controlling his own wife, but through this interaction, is controlling her as well. She realizes, perhaps for the first time, that her sense of agency in her own life has always been an illusion. 3) Got a Letter from Jimmy: Wow...this one was dark. But the theme is the same - isolation and alienation. All those thoughts she's having, all that rage, all those questions, fears, plans, etc., of course they're internal. They always are. And he's completely oblivious. He has the luxury of being completely oblivious, because she curates herself for him. She's been driven practically insane by a few words and actions of her husband's, while nothing in his world is impacted by her at all. Their marriage has nothing to do with how she feels. She can literally be fantasizing about killing him, lol, doesn't matter one bit.

[@ebonyplummer4621]

So you think housewives should be able to complain about their family members to their face, and those family members just take it?

[@Revelwoodie]

@@ebonyplummer4621 I read this comment twice, I have no idea what you're talking about. I asked my husband to read my comment, and then read your reply, he has no idea either. You're going to have to elaborate.

[@seitanbeatsyourmeat666]

@@ebonyplummer4621what an odd take. Seek mental help

[@FabricadeBasme]

​@@ebonyplummer4621If you mean that complaining is for the weak and women should put themselves together, then you are delusional about how human emotions work. I suggest you read real psychology.

[@kaileybright.author]

At 11:05 with that dialogue exchange between the neighbor and Mrs. Walpole, the first I thing I noticed wasn't the italics but the tags. When the conversation gets serious, it's no longer "the woman said" but "the voice said", something much more detached and separate from human that really spikes the threat and terror for me.

[@Elekels]

That’s so interesting!

[@melissapinol7279]

I knew Shirley Jackson/Hyman's daughter Sarah ( Sally/Sadie) when I lived in Berkeley. Her SCA/Musical name was Sadie Damascus. A very unconventional person, she loved the old Scottish and English Ballads just like I do and was involved in the local Folk scene. She told me a lot of stories about her mother. She clearly loved her, but it was a pretty disfunctional household. Her mother hoarded odd things. Both parents were intelligent, educated and literary. Shirley had an intensity that some people found hard to deal with, as did her daughter Sadie. I know Sadie was exactly who she said she was because she showed me letters and family photos. Knowing the daughter of such an important literary figure was interesting, as was hearing the stories about her mother and her family. As I said Sadie was kind of unconventional, she kept fragments of her mother's bones from cremation in a jar and showed them to people. I really enjoyed this video, as I enjoyed Shirley's stories and and books and the various movie adaptations. I think "The Lottery" is almost mandatory reading material for Jr. High and Highschool students, and it still makes quite an impression even today.

[@adrianacharbonnet9297]

Once for a family reunion we rented out this rural hunting lodge. We were told not to go upstairs because that was the owner's private family area. It was my dad's brothers, all my first cousins, and their kids (there were like 15 of these little kids all under 7), we had the whole property to ourselves for a week. My cousins and I stayed up late talking one night, and we kept hearing this noise like footsteps upstairs. We wrote it off as this old building settling. The next morning this gaggle of my little cousins (they were between 5 and 7) were yelling up the stairs to the second floor "stay back WITCH! Go back up there!" So yeah, kids are terrifying.

[@cynthiaschultheis1660]

I was born in 1954. My mom worked 3 weeks afterwards, never stopped working till she was 67. My father was a gambler, irresponsible and lousy provider.My mom was my role model causing me to get 4 degrees at university. I raised my son alone,always working. Made me a better woman.❤

[@skyllalafey]

Sometimes, the algorithm actually gets it right. This came up in my recommends, and I'm happy I gave it a watch!

[@JanaToNth]

Same here!

[@sarahcoleman5269]

I think there is a certain real horror in the fact that men don't seem to be able to see how repressed women are. It's like you see it or hear about it and it seems so obvious, but when you talk about it with your father or brother or boyfriend they're like "Psh! That's not a thing." and you realize that they have no idea, and that they don't want to know. They're completely dismissive like there's some kind of mental barrier for them to keep them from thinking about how women feel or what they have to deal with. It's not eve "ew, gross, periods" it's "domestic suppression isn't a thing". Like, how do you watch movies like "Pleasantville" and hear about how women couldn't drive or have bank accounts until recently and say that women have never been suppressed? I used to think "Oh, my father is just older" or "My brother has never really had a long-term relationship", but I have genuinely had conversations with every man in my life, men who I thought had fairly feministic leanings and each of them have said things to me that made me realize that they really don't see it.

[@lyndsaybrown8471]

It doesn't serve them to have empathy so they don't have empathy. But I bet they want praise for their work and throw a stink if they don't get it.

[@lexileemoney6205]

@@lyndsaybrown8471 they don’t have empathy because it was conditioned out of them by patriarchal society. Women and men are equally as capable of empathy, but as women we are raised to have empathy and men are not.

[@aaabbb8812]

They DO know. They DONT CARE!!

[@Sabbathtage]

​@aaabbb8812 No. I know what they mean by "not seeing it." I've had to explain countless times to guys about why we want someone to walk us to the car or why a woman would be so rude as to cross a street rather than walk by them at night. And that should be the easy stuff. And don't get me started on having to explain to a guy about how someone he knows is being awful to me and other women and I get, "that doesn't sound like them" or "Well, they're alwsys nice to me. Maybe its because of something you did."

[@M_SC]

Yes

[@rainecormier2935]

I recently read an opinion peice that suggested that the "James Harris" character is mentioned throughout this collection extensively. The thought was how the James, Jimmy, Jim and Mr Harris of the all the different stories were all the same man, and it really blew my mind about the context of the collection in its entirety 💯

[@coyoteclockworkstudios3140]

I grew up watching my Mom work three jobs, two of which were unpaid. She was a home health pediatric nurse, then came home for the 'second shift' to be a domestic servant, cook, and childcare worker. Boomer wisdom said "Marry, have kids, and you'll be happy" but there was no roadmap for my Mom when she had major depressive disorder and a husband that was a narcissistic alcoholic with rage issues. She told me she felt like a zombie on more than one occasion. Given that so much of female person-hood is erased within domestic settings, that slavery is expected of women as the only way to show you love your family, I totally get why Jackson made it an unsettling and frightening place.

[@nativevirginian8344]

Women DEFINITELY give up more when they are married.

[@chaucernerd1690]

Unlike a lot of people, my first encounter with Shirley Jackson’s works was when I found Raiding Demons on my mother’s bookshelf. When I read “The Lottery” in school, I didn’t immediately connect the author of this horrifying story with the quirky mother of busily raising her children. I really enjoyed hearing your take on these stories. I’m not sure how you ended up on my suggested videos, but I’m glad you did. Just subscribed.

[@strawberrycherrybaby]

Wait she wrote that story too?? Fantastic. She’s been unnerving me from a young age, it seems 😂

[@insertcheesypunhere]

the presentation here is STUPENDOUS. your aesthetics and editing is giving philosophy tube but make it literary.

[@books_ncats]

Omg this is truly the highest of praise 🩷🩷🩷 thank you so much! - Rosie

[@insertcheesypunhere]

@@books_ncats of course! im in love with the readthroughs. definitely excited to see what's next!

[@Emiliapocalypse]

Ahhhh what did it give to philosophy tube???

[@zigzaglychee7324]

It brings me back to my parents before divorce. My dad was never especially nice. My mum was the higher earner when they met and was still working when I was born. She ended up leaving her job and getting part time work that fit better around childcare when my sister was born. My dad I remember doing very little. He never picked me up from school, despite always being working from home and my mum having to commute to London. At some point he took up cycling and going to the gym and became very preoccupied with his body. He was home less and less, not that he ever helped out when he was home. He began calling my mum fat (she has never been overweight, in fact, he was the overweight one when they met) and berating her appearance. She began going to the gym too, to try and make him shut up. My sister and I were also brought along sometimes: and on one of those occasions my sister, who is 4 years younger than me and must've been no older than 6, ended up going over a step into a deeper part of the swimming pool and was underwater. I remember screaming for help and nobody paying any attention because pools are full of screaming children. I managed to pull my sister out of the water. When I looked around for my dad I saw him engaged in conversation with the lifeguard. The two people who should've been taking care of us too absorbed with each other to notice my little sister in danger. I tried to tell him what had happened later, I screamed and swore because I was so angry, and he hit me. Nevermind that his other daughter had nearly died, what a brat I was for swearing. My mum was away at a class in another part of the gym while all this was going on. He became controlling with money as their marriage continued to deteriorate. She was working part time but earned far less than him. He used this against her. Possibly worst of all, he set up security cameras outside the house, but also one in the living room. I caught him watching my mum on it once. The outside ones we'd had for years for security, but the living room camera, that was something more disturbing. When he finally moved out, it was honestly a relief. This horrible, controlling, anxiety inducing presence finally gone. I remember being excited to have a new, beautiful Christmas tree that year. He didn't like Christmas trees.

[@SnowpawShaw]

Thank god you guys got away from thar monster

[@maddie4w]

It actually makes me think of another Shirley Jackson story, The Possibility of Evil. It’s about an old woman who has a nasty hobby- and looking through the lens of domestic horror, I’m now thinking of it in a different way- this woman is not a good person, but what made her like this? Is she actually evil? Or maybe her circumstances broke her down to the point where she has to let the pain out on someone else. I love Shirley Jackson, she’s incredible! Great work!

[@books_ncats]

Ooh I’ve not read it, but I’m intrigued - thanks for sharing ☺️ - Rosie

[@joancavanaugh965]

Yes, that is a great story!

[@mynameismarlys]

You introduced me to this story and it is marvelous. Just wonderful! Thank you very much.

[@SaltonGreen]

Well I've realized why I cannot and never will read Jackson's work. My family lived it. They are still trapped in the echos of it, and I am just now, at 40, seeing a possible glimmer of an escape. Thank goodness for Jackson putting these horrors into words, but I will never be able to read them, and I am okay with that. I'm very happy to be able to point to her work and say it was like that.

[@77Creation]

The hair rollers are the worst, yet somehow the best. Definitely ties in to the home life aesthetic lol

[@nobody8328]

I'm so glad I didn't live back then. I'm a side sleeper! 😂

[@LuzMaria95]

i love rollers but lord knows i can’t sleep in them

[@ttintagel]

I don't think I ever saw my one aunt out of curlers until I was, like, ten years old.

[@Heyu7her3]

​@@nobody8328 it was worse, they used Coke cans!

[@WitchKing-Of-Angmar]

​@@Heyu7her3 They didn't.

[@wernstberger]

I recently came across a term describing the female domestic experience, a "tolerable level of permanent unhappiness."

[@thehistoryandbooknerd8979]

It is always intolerable, but women and girls are groomed to tolerate it from birth and infancy, into childhood and adolescence, and even in adulthood and old age.

[@carolinewhite9678]

I sometimes have nightmares of being married and unable to leave. And I'm not even in a relationship.

[@sepulcher_stalker]

I think the most horrifying thing about domestic horror is that for many women, its a reality

[@glitchymoss]

not sure if this is purposeful, but the use of stock videos with women in modern clothes while describing the events of stories set in the 50s and 60s does a wonderful job of emphasizing that the issues Jackson covers in her writing are still so relevant in the present. excellent analysis!

[@snowbox6625]

8.4k subs? This high quality? A cat??? How are you not more popular this is great

[@mjohnson1741]

Trump is leading in the polls? There's your answer.

[@snowbox6625]

@@mjohnson1741 what?

[@randallbesch2424]

@@mjohnson1741 no he' s falling behind.

[@speccogecko7296]

Shirley Jackson was our author of study in year 12 English and I LOVED her work. Haven’t yet watched this video but I wanted to say that Shirley Jackson made some beautifully made horror that makes the mundane terrifying. I read “the lottery”, “the summer people”, “after you, my dear Alphonse” and “we have always loved in the castle”. I love the fact she was able to discuss themes of racism, sexism, misogyny, agoraphobia, the role of a house wife and many other seemingly mundane and normalised parts of the society she loved on and personal aspects of the life she loved such as her agoraphobia and struggles with diet. Also her perspective on “magic” and “witchcraft” being a tool women used to feel in control and powerful in a world/society where they lacked/had no control/power. Her art work is BEAUTIFUL and she deserves far more praise than she will ever receive. Her work is magical and very symbolic.

[@ybunnygurl]

My grandmother moved from the city to the suburbs of Milwaukee in the 1950s. My grandmother could have been a character in one of Shirley Jackson's stories. The uncomfortable housewife who resented having to leave the city and a job she loved and my grandfather was equally unhappy. He didn't want his wife to leave the city in the job she loved but if he wanted to move up at the company they had to be that picture perfect family or they might be communists. This all ended in the late '60s with my grandfather refusing a psychiatrist recommendation that my grandmother be put into a mental hospital and instead giving my grandmother a divorce. My grandmother desperately wanted a divorce not because she didn't love my grandfather She loved him but because she was unhappy and just needed to do something different. She did, She moved to Colorado in the '70s and smoked a lot of weed, ate a lot of mushrooms and did a lot of LSD. But she was still unhappy and she felt abused by her boyfriend/psychiatrist, and on the recommendation of her ex-husband my grandfather she moved to the east coast where two of her children had moved. My grandfather meanwhile had moved to California to settle in Sunny Santa Barbara. Both my grandfather and my grandmother met other people and got remarried My grandfather married a woman he liked who was extremely unhappy and he made her happy. Her story was equally awful She was married at a young age to a man in Panama where both her and the man she was married to were American. The man she was married to got a young Panamanian woman pregnant; He took the child from its mother presented it to his wife my step grandmother and said here this is your child You will raise it now. The object horror of having someone do that to you and you being a woman and not being able to say anything. Luckily Maggie's husband died there was a shipping accident in the Panama canal and he fell in and was drowned. And make you found herself and her son sent to California with scheck from his employer to set them up in a new life away from all the pain. I honestly feel like the stories I got told of both of my grandparents life are truly horror stories and the fact that both of them ended up relatively well at the end Maggie passed away and my grandmother's second husband passed away and suddenly my dad's parents found themselves talking on the phone all the time and wondering what it made them separate all those years ago. The truth was in the end they loved each other a lot.

[@Blairwolfvt]

How you kept a straight face while Mousy was pawing at those flowers. Now that's composure!

[@epowell4211]

Wow wow wow. I haven't experienced a lot of her stories, and due to a wreck, can't really remember other than I liked her, but you have inspired me to hunt them down. This is the type of horror that disturbs me to my core: good people doing what actual good people are supposed to do, trapped/surrounded by evil that the world accepts as normal. Realizing that the "good townsfolk", "innocent children", or "loving spouse" have ideas so contrary from your values as to make them seem alien to you.

[@chrisogrady28]

Fyi this how it feels to be vegan in our current world

[@deathdragoncat]

The way men romanticize the "housewife" lifestyle for their idea wife is horrifying. They picture these always available happy servant who seeks and aspires for nothing but serving him, the house and the children. Hes being taken care of while he views the lion share of his work as just finacially supporting the family and thats all he needs to contribute. So many women have been abused,neglected driven crazy due to the complete dehumization that can cone from choosing that life style. You are vulnerable and too many men up and leave their partners and children knowing they then have no way to survive and they just.... dont care.

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

True. And sometimes you look back and wonder if they did more damage by staying, if poverty would leave less damage than what the constant stress, masked obsessive control, endless subtle rules and attacks they inflicted left on your mind and body.

[@cherry_tonic]

i love how you’re talking about such an interesting subgenre of horror, but your voice and cadence are just SO delightful

[@CovenoftheOpenMind]

I liked this too. She really nailed this topic!

[@lunab541]

This video has turned me from "oh that's the author of The Lottery" into a Shirley Jackson fan. Since then, I've read two of her short stories collections, one is the one in the video and the other is "Just an ordinary day", a collection of unpublished and uncollected works published after her death. Her range as a writer is incredible, and I really enjoy her subtlety and wit when writing mundane situations. I also love her portrayal of fantastical and macabre things, weaved into every day life. Definitely a new favorite, can't wait to get to her novels.

[@k.s.k.7721]

Shirley Jackson wrote two of my very favorite novels: "The Sundial", and "We Have Always Lived in the Castle". So much of these stories take place inside the respective households, where families shift the concept of what's normal into some truly bizarre behaviors. Love her writing.

[@bees4839]

As someome raised mormon and is now a mom, I was taught a version of womanhood that resembles the Victorian era and the 1950s. This video hits so hard. I'm out of mormonism now, and been seriously questioning my gender identity for years now due to the severe discomfort I have near constantly. But the horror of those gendered roles is still ingrained in my habits and anxiety and I feel like I'm in a panopticon despite my isolation. It's taking a lot of effort to unlearn it, and figure out what being me as a parent even means.

[@books_ncats]

Sorry to hear that, that must be challenging. I don't really know anything about mormonism, but would be interested to learn more and see how it relates to Jackson's depictions of housewifery - Rosie

[@jakobkennedy-r3z]

I've never left a comment before. But i have ADHD and really strruggle to read as much as i'd like. I watched this video a week ago and it's really helped me fall back in love with reading, thanks for that. :)

[@jewknowwho8178]

This is my first time learning of Shirley Jackson but I'm already fascinated. Her words, especially through your delivery, are so powerful in portraying the horror only visible to the pov character. I'm eager to look into more of her work

[@NoMoreCrumbs]

I confess that I've not read any of Jackson's work, but from your descriptions of some of her stories I'm reminded of some of the works of King. It and The Shining both have elements of domestic or suburban horror, and a persistent theme in his works is that middle class aspirations frequently cover up some pretty vile and dangerous instincts

[@kellychuba]

You did not read "the lottery" in school?

[@animeotaku307]

King cited Jackson as a major influence, so it’s no surprise that there’s similarities.

[@snowhitequeer]

​@@kellychubamaybe the person is not from US....

[@cooliohoolio30]

@@snowhitequeerim from the USA and i never read "the lottery" in school... we did read "charles" though, which is a lot more light hearted and kid friendly , in the 8th grade

[@miriam8376]

The scariest part of the Renegade for me on reread is that even someone in the same situation as Mrs. Walpole-mrs. Nash, the fellow housewife who gets everything right-can still only suggest a solution that is a prison: chain Lady into her place. Terrifying that even someone who could’ve been an ally endorses a system that reinforces their shared captivity. How isolating it is.

[@AlysaAlysaBolissaBananaFannaFe]

That's a good observation. It's also reflective of her basically being chained to the stove making doughnuts.

[@maristiller4033]

Shirley Jackson is one of my main literary influences when it comes to horror! I wrote a whole short story collection for my seminar in writing fiction because I was so inspired rereading her work. So excited to see someone talking about her!!

[@JackofWhitechapel]

Can really see the influence in later horror like the brightly coloured suburbia in Edward Scissorhands. Each housewife in the neighborhood fits the archetype

[@zionmeier2531]

love how passionate you are about these stories, really adds to the analysis!

[@julecaesara482]

I don't know why but every Jackson story ends in a way that I can't help but imagine the woman murdering someone soon after the story ends.

[@cloudGremlin]

Horror often uses the hyperbolization or hystericalization of commonalities to bring about a feeling of deep dread and, well, horror. Shirley Jackson sounds like she was very good at utilizing this technique in her stories to create horror out of the mundane- or, on the flip side, she also was wonderful at the skill of taking terrible and horrid scenarios and having the characters treat them as mundane (such as in The Lottery) to instil that same dread and horror on the flip side. Unfortunately this type of horror doesn’t do anything for me, but it is fascinating!

[@haidenlotze7530]

I just watched “Don’t Worry Darling” and I don’t want to spoil too much but it touches on a similar note. DEFINITELY worth a watch, and great video as always!

[@sarahashworth159]

This is my first Books n Cats video and it made me an instant fan. I was SHOCKED to see that your channel has under 10k subscribers because of the insanely high effort and quality that went into the production of this analysis which is usually indicative of a creator being around for years- it’s really admirable to see this in newer channels! I’m so glad the video is getting the traction it deserves and I can’t wait to see more videos about women in horror literature (and everything else you make from now on) !! (P.S. tell your cat I say pspspspsps)

[@arcadiaberger9204]

Thank you for inviting comments. I'm surprised by how many people doing criticism on KZbin don't offer this seemingly obvious courtesy.

[@haysmoli]

This was, in the absolute best way possible, just like being in a really good lecture at uni. Loved it! ❤

[@books_ncats]

Aww thank you very much, that’s the vibe I’m going for! - Rosie

[@biohazard3474]

I am a big fan of horror, yet I had no clue that the home life could be so gut-wrenching and sickening. The fact that I could hear my inner voices panic as the neighbor said to "take care" of the dog is a testiment to Shirley's writing and your reading of the passage. It's certainly something that gets under one's skin, and I think that's pretty darn cool.

[@sobekmania]

Reading Hangsaman was really interesting because I sensed that there were a lot of fears that Jackson was projecting into the story. Natalie's mother feels trapped and insecure because of her eccentric, narcissistic husband, and she constantly tells her daughter to marry well and not waste her life. Natalie, in turn, perceives her mother as the emblem of a miserable future if she does not leave her household. There is so much femininity interwoven into the story that it feels as if Jackson is reckoning with the belief that she feels trapped as a housewife. Very strange book, but engaging read nonetheless!

[@books_ncats]

Interesting, need to give it a read. Thanks! - Rosie

[@jola2659]

I'm currently writing my BA thesis about this topic! great video xx

[@goldensloth7]

cool!

[@l.5832]

Now that women are working full time, getting educated and still looking after home and family.....they are still very often asking "Is this all?" They are very exhausted as they ask it...but many women now work non-stop and have no time to enjoy life.

[@mirimariana]

Yup. People in general feel like this, with extreme capitalism and people not being able to afford things.

[@Quaila]

Maybe it's because the owning class adapted to the gradual expansion of women's rights by gradually degrading working conditions and stagnating wages and also because men are still being socialized to disrespect and abuse women by, on top of domestic violence,manipulating them into still bearing the brunt of housework even if they already work outside the home!

[@CovenoftheOpenMind]

​​@@Quaila men are not villains in this, they are victims too. My husband is miserable as a house husband, and his incompetence is not weaponized. They are not raised right, they're not taught how to do the housework for themselves, they are more emotional than women, repressed, isolated by their own inability to connect with other men (especially men raised without brothers). They are not ok either lol Sexism hurts everyone.

[@sarahrobertson634]

The missing piece of the puzzle is the village. We can now work, but we still no longer live in tribes. The tribe is what fulfills us. We evolved to live in tribes. Child rearing is much easier in tribes. Children will voraciously consume their mothers unless the mother is backed up by the village. Our nervous systems are designed to live tribally. We can't handle the anxiety of raising children in nuclear families with emotionally unavailable husbands. The nuclear family is such a failure, and such a source of trauma.

[@sarahrobertson634]

​@@QuailaWe needs villages and tribal societies.

[@katethielen3883]

19:00 that's even scarier if you imagine a world where divorce isn't possible. Like, you were married at 18 and knew them for a week, and suddenly you're trapped with someone you thought you knew but didn't 😰

[@Naturalchic3]

Brand new subscriber here! I love the traditional housewife garb you presented in. Lovely touch! My awareness of Shirley Jackson began (and ended) with "The Lottery". Thanks to your rich deep dives, I am drawn to read more of her works. Thank you!

[@books_ncats]

You’re very welcome! ☺️ - Rosie

[@phylliselizahb1041]

She wrote a very researched commentary about the Salem witchtrials, too. Wonderful!

[@colbalt4829]

Your channel is criminally underrated, such a good video

[@intothevoid1996]

You ending the video with just a slightly too long, uncomfortable stare into the camera is just so perfect. Such a small touch but it really hit me.

[@mariecarie1]

Well shit, I AM Mrs. Walpole in just about every way. The whole first story just SCREAMS of social anxiety, and even autism-the degree to which we can feel alienated and uncertain of others’ motives, having to put on the social masks of basic human interaction that are somehow heavier and scarier than everyone else’s, like we’re aliens yet somehow still on our own “safe” home planet. At least, I feel that way. Glad I’m not alone in feeling this way 😅

[@jbaby362]

This makes me feel less alone

[@randomfella8448]

Nothing is scarier than 1950s America

[@elliotville7820]

Real. Nothing more scarier than seeing your life becoming a living hell just because you permanently bind yourself to the wrong person

[@AlexandriteRush]

Yes. I've heard multiple cis white gals saying they'd love to live in the 1950s, and every time I reply "no you don't." They go on about athstetics and I say, "you can wear a poodle skirt today and still have a life outside your husband and kids. And we have far less lynchings now." That's usually where the conversation ends.

[@zizojaezekeom3565]

​@@elliotville7820there's no such thing as a wrong person, all men that period treated women as objects and maids and trapped them

[@kevinericsongs]

i'd rather have 1950's america than the clown-world we have now!

[@randomfella8448]

@@kevinericsongs it's the same clown world bro. It's just the 1950s had less technology and people hid their dark shit better ( assuming if people care that is).

[@dimdive7997]

I haven't yet read any of her books, but just your recounts are so terrifying I feel a little sick. I think for me it's the absolute loss/lack of control that does it: The protagonists are completely dependent in their existence, life, happiness and future on others (their husbands, communities, children). They are not given any opportunity to build something stable for themselves by themselves. And what now, if those others are violent? Dangerous? Threatening? You don't just stop being dependent on them because they make you miserable. You're stuck and all at the mercy of your surroundings. It's terrifying!

[@primesspct2]

Mousie! One of my all time favorite kitties was my sweet Mouse! Mousie lived the life of a very tiny cat, in the land of the Labs, which she had wrapped around her little paws. Oh I do miss her. Nice to make your acquaintance Miss Mousie!

[@ghostfaceclova]

I adore Shirley Jackson for the all reasons you covered and this is a really fascinating analysis. I do think we need to be careful how we characterise women's experiences of paid work/labour in the 50's and 60's. A specific demographic of white, middle-class women were renegated to the domestic sphere and subjugated to the experiences characterised by Jackson's work and Friedan's Feminine Mystique. However, there were many working class women and women of colour that had to engage in paid work. They were subjected to the same cultural expectations of ideal femininity, but could never achieve them - they had to break this ideal to survive. Those women lived a very different genre of horror. It is not to take-away from this excellent exploration of Jackon's work or to denegrate the horror of the domestic sphere. But let's also acknowledge this was never an experience shared by all women - and it's important to consider the spectrum of women's experiences throughout history.

[@ОдинДва-я2щ]

I've never heard of Shirley Jackson before, can't believe I've slept on such a brilliant horror! Tysm for the wonderful video, so happy I've stumbled upon your channel

[@briannabulcroft9778]

I love Shirley Jackson and I absolutely loved your take! My favorite book of her's has always been "We Have Always Lived in the Castle" and I'd be really curious to hear your views on it and especially on Merricat. I've seen people paint her as the villian, but I've always seen her as a victim of abuse from the men in her family and community who has had virtually no power as a child/woman to stop it and protect herself and her sister, so she does the only thing she can do to end the abuse, and cope with it and its aftermath. While her actions may be viewed as morally wrong, they are often the only available paths to her to do something about it.

[@books_ncats]

I love ‘We Have Always Lived in the Castle’, too! An analysis is on my list - Rosie

[@artofescapism]

What a fascinating analysis! Jackson is one of my favorite authors- I’ve always loved her sort of quiet, domestic horror. You did a great job articulating this, and it was a pleasure to watch!

[@TheSodaBurst]

Off topic, but I love that this video includes music from the game LA Noire. Really fitting to the theme of seeing the worst of humanity under the veneer of midcentury perfection.

[@MariaVosa]

I absolutely LOVE these deep dives into Jackson's works.

[@danielyoung5137]

Absolutely! Beyond anything else in her life or work, you realize experiencing her point of view is so WORTH it!

[@fabricdragon]

just the one statement "he stays at his parents *every time we move*" they move, a lot... and he leaves it all up to his wife, while he has a vacation at his parents... she isnt allowed any outside news, or contact, and whatever he does its bad enough that they have had to move, a lot

[@PramkLuna]

This is my first time hearing about domestic horror, it made me realize so many of the horror stories I read are actually part of that genrr such as the movie Vivarium and most of Junji Ito's stories are sup

[@christademarco5602]

I was a home health aide. I worked with patients who were generally 60 and up. The older a patient was, specifically if they were a woman, I avoided asking "what did you do for work?" Instead I asked "what did you do?" This allowed they to answer with less anxiety "oh, I worked as a cashier at the local grocery/ I was a nurse/etc." vs "oh, I was a house wife." Asking "what did you do for work" frequently was answered with a bitter sad quick answer that told volumes. She wanted to work. But couldn't because her husband said no, or her family said no, or society said no. And either her husband was alive and she didn't want to start that argument again or he was gone and she didn't want to dirty his memory. The almost "well, it could have been worse" tone echoing. He was loving, he supported her hobbies. He was a good father. He wasnt abusive or cheating. Her provided for his family. She doesn't want to sound ungrateful. And I sometimes hear myself saying these things now. Due to tldr situations I'm currently out of work, and falling into domestic duties. "Why isn't your husband helping?" He genuinely comes home exhausted. So I don't pester him with dishes, etc. besides I'm home all day. Shouldn't I have already done that? As I'm sitting in the laundry room washing his clothes and waiting to wake up our toddler while he goes to work. My husband isn't forcing me to stay home. I know he is concerned about me going back to work. Not because things won't get done but because of that tldr situation. We need the money. Working gave me purpose beyond being a housewife and mother. But, it has caveats. And I can't help but worry "am I the women I used to care for? Someday will someone dance around a direct question so as not to upset me on a life not lived? And will people sneer at my husband for denying me without knowing the full story? Will I have to play defense attorney for him and myself?"

[@connectropy]

Thanks for the writing excerpt!

[@robinbirb]

I'm so glad the KZbin algorithm led me to this video! Love your analysis of and enthusiasm for Jackson's writing. For me, Jackson has always been part of the holy trinity of "domestic horror" writers of that era: Shirley Jackson, Flannery O'Connor, and Joyce Carol Oates. They've all written short stories that have haunted me for decades. (Oates' "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" can still raise the hair on my arms. 💀) I find the subtle undercurrent of menace in their work to be far more haunting than any horror movie I've ever seen.

[@dianamiller3307]

I started crying watching this. I know Shirley Jackson because of The Lottery. It seems she was always elucidating human evil, but not what to do about it.

[@smiley_face2872]

I can’t get over the fact that the dog’s name is lady

[@jwilson544]

Fiction from this period is so interesting to me. So much of what was feared from this time was very unnatural cruelty for humans to do (from our modern understanding of psychology), yet it was believed to be the natural and normal for humans to do (as psychology was understood then). The story of the young children describing the dog punishment is right to be disturbed by, but psychologists back then believed that children were naturally cruel and needed to be implemented with morals. But our data today points to children to be incredibly empathetic and caring. Cruelty is something that is learned behavior. How this story relates to day vs. when the author wrote it is now related back then. When this was written, it would have been seen as this is the uncomfortable truth of the cruelty of children. Reading it now, we see how the casual cruelty of those around them and the enjoyment of it is affecting the children. It is fascinating how the story holds up in this evolved way

[@opheliamunroe1110]

I'd actually never heard of this author before but I'm really glad I decided to watch this video because now I have new stories to read. I've always loved house/suburban horror/Gothic. Tales about the dark truths of home, family and community give me a lovely creeping unease because they feel very familiar. Thank you for making this video and introducing me to a "new" author. ☺️

[@radishdude773]

I would say that "Just a Thought" and "the beautiful stranger" have some of these same themes, although done in a much different way. It's got that same sense of quiet desperation, although both go in much different directions. I think those are much more about exposing your worst desires, and the consequences of them. 'just a thought' in particular has a narrator who is both terrified of and can't stop thinking about being freed from her role as housewife. Loved the video, and especially loved the comments you had on the children! I think Jackson is good at writing creepy children in a way that feels realistic, rather than campy.

[@zoloftkat]

All of these stories remind me of "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. Again it is incredibly gothic in something meant to be comforting. The horror of a postpartum mother and the anxiety the baby actually causes her, feeling as though she is the lady trapped in the wallpaper. It is so good!! If you're reading this you should check it out!!

[@books_ncats]

We've made a video about it! 'How "The Yellow Wallpaper" changed women's medicine' - Rosie

[@emrilbennett8704]

My English teacher introduced me to thit

[@heatherm.1473]

Incredible story and a very interesting author as well

[@ЛилияРенова-ф2б]

Thank you so so much for introducing me to Jackson's work! What a phenomenal write, my new fav

[@esverker7018]

I'd LOVE to see you dive into A Doll's House (1879) by Henrik Ibsen, it has the sense of unsettling, spiraling domestic anxiety that comes from being without any control. The discourse on the horror of housewifery tends to be focused on postwar pressures, when in reality it's a story that is far, far older.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Okay, I'd swear to it that writing sugary "home & hearth, nanny & cook" stories without really wanting to is probably the perfect way to discover how creepy that oh-so-idyllic existence could be. My theory is: when you're writing the same scene about this weeks Pretty Young Mother baking a cake or having to deal with her little angel being stubborn or whatever, the pure repetitiveness makes it a bit scary / uncanny, or if nothing else, triggers a sort of "oh goodness not again" reaction. And once it feels creepy to _you_ , writing it creepy is somewhere between easy and happening by itself. E.g. the 'drama' of the story is that the husband is having a hard time, is stressed out, a bit stroppy, and so the Pretty Young Mother (TM) is thinking about how to soothe and calm him and how to create the perfect peaceful home for him ... and suddenly it morphs into this married woman listing all the things that her husband 'doesn't hold with' : movies, radio, newspapers, windows you can actually see through, being talked to in the wrong voice / at the wrong moment, post-Shakespearian theatre (apparently, nobody filled him in on all those double entendres!!) and absolutely anything that brings anybody but him and his cook/ housekeeper/ servant into his home. Reminds me of that article comparing Hallmark movies to Horror movies, it's awesome! (Just ecosia the terms all-hallmark-christmas-movies-are-horror-films-in-disguise, it'll get you there.) Taste to get you hooked: _Their predictability is part of the allure; leave the Hallmark Channel on and you can drift in and out of consciousness safe in the knowledge that the snack in a sweater who works with his hands will plant a single chaste kiss on the lips of the efficient corporate henchwoman who finally learns the true meaning of Christmas at exactly two minutes 'til credits roll, right as she decides to give up her lonely, pitiful life in New York to be folded into the loving bosom of this life-size snow globe into which she has stumbled by accident or emergency holiday week assignment or both._

[@alexandrapaiva3700]

What a wonderful voice this creator has!