How Shorts Will Be Monetized and What it Means

KZbin kinda lied about this, so I had to make an 18 minute video talking about:
1. How the rev split will work
2. Why we don't know what percent creators will get
3. Whether that's a good thing
4. What pisses me off about it
5. How much money creators might actually expect to make
Here's the spreadsheet to see how the split changes in different situations. The only editable cell is "percent of shorts without music"
docs.google.co...

[@molybdnum]

It sounds a lot like everyone should stop being a content creator and start being a record label.

[@altejoh]

This is essentially what YMFAH did with their videos. Because they literally got more monetization by auto-copyright-flagging his own music in his own videos than he would get from normal youtube monetization.

[@krishp1104]

@@altejohLMAOO copyrigbting your own videos big brain

[@Flint_Inferno]

@@altejoh This sounds like Spiffing Brit chaos

[@archerelms]

Monetarily and with the way things currently work? Absolutely, it would be very beneficial. I don't like the idea, I definitely don't think anyone should need to do it, but yeah at the moment it could be quite helpful.

[@tuxxito]

very astute

[@chazlewis8114]

Overall there's been a very disappointing shift away from high quality long form content. I'm really not interested in 30 second videos that leave me feeling lobotomized.

[@callenroeder3784]

You can thank TikTok and the brains lack of attention

[@raeperonneau4941]

Amen.

[@PidroBondar]

This, i would hate for shorts to take over

[@max10dler]

Has there been? Long form content is just as popular as ever and the creators of short form content often pine after it endlessly. People are still creating that high quality long-form content, they’re just making shorter stuff *in addition.* I highly doubt short form content will be REPLACING long form content, at least any time soon; rather, it will continue to augment it more and more. However, I will totally admit this sounds exactly like something someone from the 1930s would say about the new-fangled television in comparison to the time-honored radio, so I guess we’ll have to see if time proves me wrong haha

[@HGHsChannel]

It had grown on me for a while, I tried to train the algorithm by watching more serious shorts like Hank and John's channel, action lab, nile red, and just overall "good" content, but lately I've only gotten the same like 5 template tik toks with insufferable songs and fucking text to speech. It's come full circle to being garbage again on my end.

[@MrMielke]

It took me a very long time from seeing the title in my feed to realising he meant KZbin shorts and not clothes.

[@thescowlingschnauzer]

[Announcer voice] WORLDWIDE PANTS

[@Omni0404]

Hank is like that one old guy who's still young enough to understand the kids. So he teaches us.

[@RNG-999]

It's still so weird to me that I have been watching this man for like 11 years. Since I was a kid.

[@Omni0404]

@@RNG-999 Let's hope we all get 11 more!

[@MrNicoJac]

Hank is not old yet. Medium, maybe. But his hair isn't gray yet.

[@ModestNeophyte]

@@MrNicoJac Its so weird being 38, having watched Hank and John for so long, and seeing someone else call him OLD. I may be 38 but I still feel like i'm 15 year old me.... Then I start seeing a stray gray here or there and im like "wtf this is not real" lol

[@Uhohlisa]

God I can't wait until you blink and before you know it, you're in your 30s

[@Sk8GamerJord]

Hank talking about that promise is so incredibly powerful. I’ve spent 3 years on TikTok and finally this year I am slowly transitioning my videos to shorts. TikTok is not equitable to certain themes of content and youtube seems to evenly distribute attention no matter the theme.

[@benc9420]

Which themes are TikTok not equitable about?

[@Seth9809]

Well I've heard that KZbin has spent years and years (And I've seen proof) trying to push down LGBT people and minorities....So... I hate to think of what Tiktok does.

[@Sk8GamerJord]

@@benc9420 I’ll give you my example. TikTok seems to treat skateboarding and skateboarding adjacent/periphery content with the shadowban hammer. KZbin on the other hand seems to give fair attention to skaters and those in the periphery of skating like myself.

[@BurgerFred1]

Unless you're lgbt

[@theRandy712]

@@Sk8GamerJord I smell anecdotal fallacy here. TikTok has videos on what, 40 billion topics? It's always going to feel like your particular theme is being shafted. But I bet there are people in that field getting millions of views on every video, right?

[@colonelb]

So this is actually very common and not unique to KZbin. Way back in the ancient times of 2003-2006, I was an engineer and director at a mobile company that made wallpaper and ringtone apps, and we'd sell a wallpaper from $0.99-$1.99, and a ringtone from $1.99-$2.99. We'd get 70% after the carrier (Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile, etc.) would take their cut which was 30% off the top, and then we'd split what was left 50%/50% with the record company or license holder (WB in the case of Harry Potter wallpaper, UMG or EMI in the case of a ringtone, etc.) so that'd work out to "50% of 70%" or 35%. So that means our "profit" was about 35-70 cents per piece of content sold. This is the same basic margin in Video Games - steam, xbox, sony, nintendo, etc - often takes 30%, and then the publisher takes a cut of what's left, unless you self publish as an indie studio. If you're using a licensable engine like Unreal Engine, they then take 5%, and then if you licensed avengers or star wars from disney or whatever, they'd take a cut on top of that. You get whatever is left over, so a $19.99 game may yield you $4 or so. So, it's confusing and crappy but it's at least consistent with other content selling industries. Hank can speak more about books but book authors only make a small percentage as well. Everyone has their hand in the pie and you always eat last, like Milton and the cake from Office Space. Cheers

[@knitterknerd]

That's a very useful perspective, thanks!

[@mossman15]

it was super helpful for me to be able to contextualize it this way. thanks for sharing

[@rapdactyl]

>Hank can speak more about books but book authors only make a small percentage as well. Everyone has their hand in the pie and you always eat last, like Milton and the cake from Office Space. And the crazy part is, the pie could not exist without the creator in question. Publishers can't publish anything without its authors. KZbin can advertise to nobody without creator-made videos in between the ads. And somehow these absolutely critical parts of the ecosystem - without whom the ecosystem would be utterly worthless - are barely a consideration in these discussions.

[@fang_xianfu]

The big difference that Hank is highlighting is that although record companies get a cut of money from shorts using music, they do not get a cut from shorts not using music. But the content creators who aren't using music don't get any special treatment; they still have to give the record labels some of their money even though they didn't benefit. That's not horrendously unfair given the objective to have music widely available for use in shorts, but it is way more complicated than your example and does mean that KZbin's 45% figure needs an asterisk.

[@leolindahl4514]

interesting! This really shows how important it is to be able to negotiate the terms of a contract

[@sampson5324]

These meta videos you make where you talk about video platforms are some of the best videos on the internet. Peeling back the curtain for non creators like me who spend so much of their time on these platforms is so important. Thank you Hank for making these.

[@JETAlone12]

Appreciate that you noted most of the money for music goes to the record labels rather than the musicians themselves.

[@pro-v7500]

I’m not saying that statement is incorrect, but did he say that? Or did you just infer that’s what he was saying?

[@emilypresleysee]

@@pro-v7500 7:51

[@woof5082]

depends on how you publish your music. a musican can make a lot without a label.

[@altrag]

@@woof5082 Musicians without a label will get exactly fuck all from this deal, as the deal is between KZbin and the major labels. Anyone with a smaller label or self-publishing will have to continue going through the same old copyright claim crap they've always had to.

[@thescowlingschnauzer]

The musician's work is done. They get what they negotiated. The record label's work defending the copyright is continual, so they take the money.

[@livijean1]

This is a very nuanced and yet understandable explanation! Thank you for always making information accessible Hank 🙌🏻

[@IrisGlowingBlue]

++

[@jewelwing]

+1!

[@1FrostySlime]

I don't know why but I somehow got it in my head that youtubes cut was 45%, our cut was 45%, and the music labels cut was 10%, boy was I wrong. Thanks for the education as always Hank.

[@ooooneeee]

that's how it should have been

[@ShreyasYD]

The music labels are the mafia dons of the entertainment industry… they take half and you make more money for them, or they take full money and you stop existing… there’s no way they’re taking the smaller of the cuts…

[@malta7406]

You think music labels would accept as little as 10% for all the no work that they do? Ridiculous, they’ll be sleeping on street corners before long! We society a live in.

[@warehouselead]

With all the complex, scientific, ideas you have explained in a short, I find it humorous that it takes 18min to explain KZbin monetization.

[@danielblank9917]

To be fair, I think complex scientific ideas are done morr justice with long form

[@rewboss]

I just recently started making shorts on a semi-regular basis; obviously they're not making any money at the moment, but I have noticed that as well as bringing in a lot more views than my long-form videos, they are also getting me tons of new subscribers. I'm hoping that they'll do what for while wasn't possible until KZbin fixed the algorithm, and attract more views on my more lucrative long-form videos.

[@theunderfold]

This was actually very helpful. Coming from the webcomics world, I have to admit that getting ANY money for simply making the content is far and away better than having to run Patreons and make bonus content and all that jazz. It's been a weird world after ads on websites and just posting images on social media. So...I welcome the opportunity to finally get SOMETHING from KZbin after all these years. :)

[@Gamerboy0088]

I know you are busy Hank, but please make a video explaining why KZbin creators unionizing would be so difficult. A union seems like the perfect solution to this problem.

[@Xidnaf]

I also want this.

[@vitormelomedeiros]

@@Xidnaf What a pleasant surprise to see you around here! Used to love your content back in High School. Anyways, concerning OP's discussion, I'm guessin the sheer _amount of creators_ could be one of the biggest, if not _the_ biggest factor. Like, even if, say, 10000 creators unionized (and, for instance, stopped posting for a week), there would be tens of thousands more generating money for Alphabet during that time. And, you know, general difficulties regarding unionizing, one of the biggest one being simply lack of interest. Most creators probably wouldn't care about unionizing (even though they would broadly be in favor of making more money). Not that I'm against creator unionizing, quite the opposite in fact, I think it's one of the most important things that could happen to the social internet, ever. But I'm not really surprised nothing like it has happened yet, it is, indeed, _really_ hard to do (and might be even harder to do _properly_)

[@jaidenbrink]

Mostly because KZbinrs are so spread out and are worldwide. There isn’t an easy way for all the KZbinrs to get together all at once to set it up(even accounting for language translation, live stream attendance etc). Plus there’s different laws for unions in different countries, workers rights etc. I’d imagine a couple super rich KZbinrs(mr. Beast comes to mind) would have to sponsor the setup and hire an outside agency to set it all up.

[@JMCatron]

UNIONIZE!

[@shainak]

@@vitormelomedeiros i think another problem is that, why would a huge creator like Hank want to unionize with a small creator like me? Like, maybe he would, but I imagine other big creators wouldn't.

[@Lance_G]

Oooh I'm intrigued to hear why a Creator's Union would be tricky, and would absolutely love to hear your ideas on that.

[@TalLikesThat]

I really want a video about the trickiness of unionizing KZbin creators, it does sound like a good idea.

[@isacami25]

what i want is for youtube to show me only the shorts from the channels i'm subscribed to.

[@brighid9527]

I believe if you click on a short in the "subscribed" tab, once you scroll down from there, it keeps showing the shorts posted by the people you follow, in the order they were posted, starting with the more recent videos

[@RNG-999]

How to spot a TikTok user. Sad, to be honest.

[@firstname405]

Yep, already does that on the subscription tab

[@hankschannel]

Hahah, antithetical to what makes shorts successful, which is that it's a tremendously useful engine of discovery.

[@Bc232klm]

@@hankschannel Successful, exploitative and annoying. tomato tomato.

[@edt49er]

Im excited for this because for the last 11 yesrs ive been on the cusp of making money. When i finally hit the YPP the first time around, it was right before the first shift of the adpocolypse and I didnt get grandfathered in. Right as I found some success and began to grow again, the second wave hit and it got pushed back again. Now, right as im on the cusp of it again, i have another potential avenue for revenue from what ive been making since 2011. Im curious to see how this will work as a smaller creator, that is on the cusp, vs a larger creator.

[@CorwinFound]

Would love to hear more about a union or guild type of thing for creators. I think the current issues with suppression of creators of certain demographics and negotiating around new structures kind of requires some level of representation.

[@LikelyToBeEatenByAGrue]

Hank tried to start the internet creators guild but it sort of fizzled. It's too diverse a group, if such a thing is possible.

[@chronosome]

Whoa - you can see the money matrix. Thanks for breaking it down. A favorite Simon lyric: "the music suffers, the music business thrives..."

[@thegovernerful]

Honestly, the videos Hank puts on this channel are some of the most important bits of content for creators. Damn.

[@annakoehler1893]

I'm here for a healthy economic ecosystem for creators - on every level. Everyone deserves a fair cut for their work. Especially in times likes these. I'd be interested to hear how you try to reflect these values at Complexly.

[@hankschannel]

At Complexly, we distribute 50% of our profit to employees and the other 50% is put toward a rainy day fund and a fund for future projects. 0% of Complexly's profit is distributed to owners, which John and I are only able to do because we don't have investors and also we have plenty of money from other stuff.

[@Payhellbay]

@@hankschannel Just to be extra clear, you're talking of company profits, so after all expanses have been paid. And 50% of that is redistributed to employees as Bonuses I imagine? Good to know and good on you Green brothers 😊

[@hankschannel]

​@@Payhellbay Correct. Sometimes we don't have a ton of profit, and there is a weird exception in the Crash Course Coin which, when we have excess, we put 100% toward future Crash Course projects rather than distributing it as part of the profit bonus pool, but that's how we do it!

[@enchilottas8690]

@@hankschannel just want to say that I speak for plenty of folks when I say we're grateful for your transparency!

[@JS-tv9ld]

@@hankschannel That's pretty awesome that you guys are able to do that.

[@Sphel17]

i almost spit out my water when hank said ‘the record labels are doing fine and every time they whine it makes me want to spit on something’

[@kajetanneumann165]

I watch a lot of your shorts and videos, and I just wanted to say I really like how you express your opinions. I feel many people now a days like to have a concrete yes-or-no opinion, but I think it’s simply better and more constructive to have this grey compromise of “this is how I feel but also I know that the other side has some good points I support”. So yeah, I like your content. It good in my brain. 👍

[@jamie_amaru]

I think KZbinrs need a union for a lot of reasons. Being at the negotiating table is one, but collective input in the way rules can start being consistently applied in a way that isn't entirely arbitrary and inconsistent is another. But I'm not sure what unionizing this would look like. It's not exactly a factory or grocery store.

[@lucas56sdd]

I don't know why you think that adding another interest group would make the rules less obtuse or more consistent.

[@technetium9653]

Hank tried, Google the internet creators guild, it failed, I personally believe there's appetite for a second go, but I'm just a nobody

[@armadillito]

"KZbinrs" are too broad and multinational a cohort to easily form a single union. Any union that did form would probably have some pretty huge biases and blindspots - nevertheless, it might be better than nothing!

[@masiethespiral]

@@lucas56sdd because the third party would (hopefully) be there to negotiate for the creators they represent

[@WhoreForTheLore]

I'm not even a creator (and I'm pretty sure this information is in no way actually useful/relevant to me at all,) BUT I am still just really glad that you took the time to explain all of this and break down how everything works/will work FOR all of the creators out there who maybe don't/didn't quite know/understand HOW all of this works or sorta WHY it is set up the way it is (or will be, idk). I just think that's really cool of you. (Of course, it's not like this sorta thing is really new for you. Helping to educate people IS sorta your shtick already, which is just super rad. You go, Glen Coco. 🖤)

[@elisa.llew-send]

Thank you for doing the heavy lifting necessary for us all to understand this. The nuance in this is a lot to keep in mind. Cheers, Hank.

[@allikelly8001]

Content creators need a union! I would love to hear more about what that could look like, but understand not wanting that information public. A union would offer a way for the content creators themselves to be having this conversation without management, and come up with their own collaborative solution to fight for.

[@LikelyToBeEatenByAGrue]

Shorts views are so weird. I started making shorts for my wife who moved out of town for school. They're just 15-30 second clips of my dogs doing dog stuff so she wouldn't miss them as much. I've had one that got over 10k views and a few over 1k. There's creators I watch who have been doing it for years and haven't had a 10k view video.

[@intercrossed]

Great video Hank, thanks for explaining. I was very intrigued by your mentioning of a "creator union". Now, I'm not American, but I'm given to understand that you guys have a complicated relationship with unions. In Denmark, where I come from, we love the unions and they're an integral part of our work culture. I was hoping you might elaborate on the tricky-ness of a creator union, perhaps in another video.

[@jimmypatton4982]

We have super complicated relationship with unions. I think it is mainly because we have two types of unions. Those that help employees and those that hurt employees. And distinguishing between the two are very hard. Because often every union helps some people who are in it and hurt the other people in the same union. For example changing a bonus structure, in changing it the sales team makes more and the marketing team makes less. Or mechanic perfectionist makes a bigger bonus while mechanic fast makes less due to not getting the bonus. Heh, I am just a brain washed American what do I know.

[@3rix]

Now what I'm really interested to see is whether TikTok will implement a similar system, because I think whether they do could be a major indicator of which platform comes out on top

[@Bananna219]

This is a super helpful video. I'm not a creator, but I care about how the content creators whom I follow make a living so they are able to continue doing this. And I love these longer videos Hank will still make occasionally which feel like conversations. I was resistant to short form content when it started to become popular, but even after giving in and downloading TikTok, I think KZbin does it better because I see more from creators I'm subscribed to or actively seek out. And if KZbin is also providing fairer compensation, that is amazing and I am grateful for that. Thanks Hank for your take.

[@FoleyJohn-md2gw]

Hello how are you doing today?

[@coreykeays7249]

10th grade algebra student here so i may well be wrong, but i think this is about what it works to. So assuming (for some reason) every single youtube short does indeed have music, 50% of that revenue goes to record labels. KZbin gets the other half, then gives 45% of their cut to creators, and 55% for themselves. So that works out to 50% for labels, 22.5% for creator funds, and 27.5% for youtube. Lets say, like you said Hank, that 75% have not music and 25% do. Out of the 25% for record labels, youtube gets half (12.5%) and record labels get half as well (12.5%). For the 75% without, youtube gets 55% of that (41.25 of revenue from *all* shorts ), while 45% of that goes to the creator fund (33.75% of revenue from *all* shorts). Adding together the revenue youtube gets from music shorts (12.5%) and from non music shorts (41.25%) we see youtube gets 53.75% of the revenue from *all* shorts. that means approximately 1/8 of the overall revenue goes towards respective record labels (labels get 50% of music short revenue, 50% of 25% is 12.5%, aka 1/8.) So 7/8 of the overall revenue goes towards youtube (the corporation) and the creator fund. 45% of this would go to the creator fund, 55% to youtube. So the percentages work out to 12.5% for record labels, 33.75% for creators, and 53.75% to youtube. So, say youtube makes 1,000,000$ off all their shorts this month (random figure i have no clue how much they make.) 125,000$ goes to record labels and 875,000$ go to youtube. Of youtubes cut 393,750$ goes to the creator fund and 481,250$ go to the corporation of youtube. In fractions (or pie slices as one might say,) 43/80 slices go to youtube, 27/80 go to creators, and 10/80 go to record labels. So... math. Edit: 10 seconds later you went on to say almost the exact same thing so oop but i spent like half an hour doing algebra in my head so im gonna keep it up anyways

[@anthonynorman7545]

Go you!

[@coreykeays7249]

@@anthonynorman7545 Thank you! Im at my nerdiest here lmao

[@ShreyasYD]

Absolutely perfect example!!! You summarised perfectly….

[@beastateverythin]

I think you made a mistake. You used KZbin cut as both what they get before and after splitting with creators. Only 55 percent of the part split with music should go to KZbin. But you gave them 100 percent (in your example 12.5). So the creators should get a little more than you stated. Let x = creator cut Let y = KZbin cut Let z = music cut Let p = joint cut (KZbin + creator) = x+y Let m = percent of video views with music x = .45p y = .55p z = .5m p = .5m + (1-m) = 1-.5m So now everything in terms of percent of music video views x = .45 (1-.5m) = .45 - .225m y = .55 (1-.5m) = .55 - .275m z = .5 m If 25% are music views, Creators would get 39.3% cut, KZbin gets 48.1% cut, and music gets 12.5% cut

[@coreykeays7249]

@@beastateverythin I did! It's confusing to type math out in a comment so that's part of it, but i wrote the percentages wrong down in the middle, but then the very next paragrah i write how much each party gets out of a million dollars and that part is correct (and the same 39.3, 12.5, and 49ish percent that you wrote, so idk how my brain works rn lol)

[@GaviLazan]

This video along with the LTT video from a few hours ago are perfect companion videos. It's almost like they spoke to each other, but I also feel like Linus and Hank are somehow a KZbin connection I would be surprised to find out about.

[@nick.hammes]

I, for one, would love to see a crossover with Linus and Hank talking about the economics of content creation

[@GaviLazan]

@@nick.hammes oh, totally. I think a podcast episode like Hank did with MKBHD would be awesome. But I think some pc building or a weird tech video would be pretty cool too.

[@nick.hammes]

@@GaviLazan building a PC with Hank is a great idea I hadn't even considered, I was thinking more of a podcast video.. now I want to see both

[@logo2462]

I would love a follow up video on the trickiness of starting unions

[@Nyli.]

I've never been in an union but when I was a teen I've tried to organise students for, you guessed it, a good old french strike. Everybody agrees that they are not happy and things should change. No one agrees about how, when, what, priorities, communication, all the things. So you end up with a bunch of little groups that still do not have power on their own.

[@BeefinOut]

Shorts are cool in some ways - I like the idea of a video category with portrait orientation and a 60-second time limit - but I wish we could have clean, usable shorts instead of the current format that plasters the screen with icons and removes features like playlists and time skipping.

[@worldofcyn]

Yeah not being able tp skip to rewatch a part and save the ones i like in playlist are some of my dislikes of the shorts.

[@nathanfife2890]

I just love that with KZbin premium you can basically have tiktok without ads. Sounds like a good deal to me

[@miniritz13]

Until they announce the price hike today!

[@boringturtle]

Now I want to know about why a Creator's Guild is such a headache. Also, will that fund grow as the revenue in the Shorts ecosystem grows? From the way I've heard people talk, it sounds like it doesn't (or at least doesn't commensurately with the increase in the ecosystem) in TT.

[@Virtuous_Rogue]

I suspect it has to do with how many people want to become content creators. 200,000 people are making the majority of views but are a vast minority of people who upload to youtube and millions of kids want to become youtubers so the 200,000 would be very replaceable. It wouldn't be too hard to rewrite the algorithm to stop promoting people with 1,000,000 or more subscribers if those people suddenly unionized. Collective bargaining only works when the whole collective is in on it but much of the collective isn't making enough money to actually join.

[@jbradleymusic]

"Record label of creators" could very easily be reformulated as a union for creators, and that's something (as a non-unionized musician) I am genuinely surprised to not have seen emerge yet. Is it because of the individualistic nature of the KZbin personality model? Would they only exist for interfacing with KZbin, or would other platforms need to be included, like FB, Tiktok, Vimeo, etc.?

[@DaGizmoGuy]

Wasn't there an attempt for KZbinrs to unionise, spearheaded by JoergSprave and IG Metall in Germany? Whatever happened to that?

[@jbradleymusic]

@@DaGizmoGuy I never heard about that, but actually that's an interesting twist as well: how do you handle non-domestic creators?

[@RhizometricReality]

KZbin needs to be democratized or destroyed by any means necessary.

[@jbradleymusic]

@@RhizometricReality hold on there, cowboy.

[@gentlydown41]

Honestly KZbin has just been to nice it's creators broadly to make it worth it. And definitely the extreme difference between creator's definitely does not belp

[@bernaue4505]

They should separate the funds of shorts with music from the funds of shorts without music. AND they should probably bring this to videos? So you get 55% of 50% from your videos that have music, because that's better than nothing!

[@stevewallace853]

I really like this guy. His vids are always well researched and evenly balanced.

[@joysherwood]

Good takes all around, as always! I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts (perhaps in another video) about why a YT creator guild or union would be tricky.

[@brettjenkins1645]

I would love a dive into the trickiness of unionizing creators

[@nikksterr0902]

Agree!

[@chrisprice8112]

I'm no expert, but the main bargaining power of unions comes from their ability to call strikes, which is effective against many 'traditional' businesses which cannot easily replace their workforce. KZbin and similar platforms have the benefit of being able to draw on a vast and much mroe interchangeable network of creators - even in an optimistic scenario where something like 30% of top youtubers unionise and threaten to stike if their demands are not met, this will mean very little to YT, who can just fill the gap by promoting the content of whoever doesn't strike.

[@jimmypatton4982]

@@chrisprice8112 Recall KZbinrs have influence on the direct customers. If the KZbinrs become a union, then I could see KZbin self imploding. Think about every creator who wants more money advertising full length or xyz for users joining them on the next Chinese backed video platform. P.S. Nebula, and few others are popping up, they just don’t have the backing to actually compete in features or audience.

[@LlamaSticks]

$1 cpm would quite actually 20x the money creators get from the shorts fund (from what I’ve seen) which is absurd, even if the cpm was $0.25 it would be a massive game changer

[@RavenDwyre]

I would say unionize. I would definitely love to hear what you have to say about it's trickiness.

[@kylekelly2649]

Hank. Just heard "Strange Charm " for the first time. Made me choke up with happiness. ..... and THEN I found out it was by YOU! LOVE YOUR SHIT BROTHER! Im from Montana, loved scishow psyc and scishow in general, THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!

[@sebastienrteller]

I've been waiting to hear your thoughts on this ever since the shorts announcement was made, as a follow up to your tiktok creator fund video. It's really incredibly helpful to have someone with your level of knowledge share that information with the rest of us so that we all understand as best as we can. It absolutely baffles me that after all this time the tiktok creator fund itself still does not exist in Canada and that even with 870k followers and over 62M total views I have not made a single penny for any of the hard work I've put into creating content and being a part of helping a platform grow. When I got the email confirming that from being a KZbin partner I was already fully eligible for the new shorts split when it will finally launch, it's like there was finally a dim light at the end of the tunnel. Like, "is there finally a way to feel valued but a platform for the type of content I create? Is this really possible?" Granted, my shorts perform horribly right now, yet I still find myself a little more hopeful. Now if tiktok could maybe feel a little pressure to act from this move by KZbin and NOT geolock their next iteration of monetization, that would truly be the icing on the cake, or, at this point, a whole other arrangements of multiple cakes. Please continue to make these videos helping us all understand. It truly feels like someone else out there finally cares.

[@Ruben_Peter]

Hi! You actually made me really curious about your channel with this comment. And I ended up watching 2 of your recent videos just now. They actually made me feel a bit better and touched me in a kind way. So, uh, hi, your stuff look great, I'll probably come back again in a while and check you out again. And thanks for making nice stuff. -Ruben

[@climbing200]

Dude, I love your outstanding logic. I wish more people could see how you see it, and view the logic of it from all party's perspective.

[@laterbot]

A KZbinrs guild or union would be invaluable though... Would love to see a video about what's tricky about it

[@Bluesmudge]

You are brilliant. I am a long time Green brother lover/ nerd fighter... You both continue to blow my mind.

[@dawne2780]

I love hearing you talk about this. Best of luck to you. I'm surprised that KZbin isn't more profitable. The platform is really great, but I wouldn't assume it needs so much upkeep or advertisement that they need to spend much of their income. I hope they can find a way to monetize without harming their actual source of income (creators). I also pay for KZbin Premium because it's worth no ads to me. So I'm hoping that subscription price doesn't go up either haha

[@BillyBraga]

KZbin premium family plan is actually going up 5$/month right now

[@Sphel17]

i did not expect to find this video as interesting as i did. Thank you Hank!

[@rocdocs]

This tennis ball has a show about music which steadfastly avoids playing music for this very reason. In case some day i actually make money from videos. Gotta stay optimistic.

[@bobcronin3352]

You'll get there. What you'll make is another story.

[@yadielmercedes3635]

Hank, Please run for preasident 🥺 you make everything so down to earth and come at it with a open minded view and you have knowledge and interests on so many things. also thank you for making scishow, I used it in middle school and now Im going to nursing school and those A&P videos are a life saver

[@y0nd3r]

When I first heard about the new shorts format, it came branded with the idea that at least part of it's purpose was to drive traffic back to your main channel.

[@feelingsarevoid]

I completely agree with you Hank! Labels have too much power and musicians/artists don’t get paid enough!

[@ttpmnikkeijin6328]

This might explain why the Ad displays are much more aggressive now than in the past.....I let the Ads play out for VlogBrothers, Crash Course, Scishow, Hanks Channel, John's Channel, etc., as a fellow Nerdfighter supporting Nerdfighteria. If the following comment means anything--and it can certainly impact monetary potential--Congratulations on reaching 1 million subscribers on THIS channel!!!

[@coolbabbit639]

I’ve heard that letting ads play means you get more/longer ads, so that could be part of what’s going on for you too. Idk how true that is though, don’t remember where I heard it.

[@gcqsopus]

What are your thoughts on content creators joining SAG-AFTRA? That seems like the existing union that would fit best. It’s already established (good and bad things about this) but at least it would be an organized, powerful voice for creators to be “in the room” during these negotiations.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

Hey, I hadn't heard this take before. There's a ready connection with the writing and performing sides, cool.

[@Trekki200]

I'm not the only one who at first read thought this was about shorts as in clothing and got confused, right?

[@miles2419]

Really interesting insight into KZbin and what they're focusing on. It's still frustrating that they're currently working on something newer in hopes of being (more?) profitable, instead of working on the issues that have been going on for years with demonetization, claims, unexplained takedowns and strikes, and the complete lack of communication with creators about these things. It's good to see they're going to more fairly compensate a part of the community that I really didn't know anything about, and the talk with record labels gives me an ounce of hope that in the future, maybe record labels won't be able to claim an entire video's revenue for a snippet of song. I don't trust KZbin, and I'm not even a creator, so I can't imagine how annoying and confusing it must be to work on the site and depend on their system for income. My hope is just that KZbin will invest time, money and thought into providing actual support, transparency and solutions to their creators. (The part where they lied about 45% doesn't inspire much hope though.)

[@peculiarcanine9443]

Its nice to see a nuanced explanation if monetization issues that doesnt paint yt as unilaterally bad.

[@ltleflrt]

I don't really like the tiktok app, but I've started using it more because it's something quick to do when I have 10 minutes to kill before I drive to work, or while I'm waiting at an appointment. Something short that doesn't take a lot of attention. I used to go to KZbin for that, but lately it's become harder to find YT videos less than 10 minutes long. I loooooove the long form videos, but I miss the shorter stuff too. So I'm glad that YT has decided to introduce the shorts, and if you're right that tiktok users can make more money with it, then that's another good reason to keep watching shorts :)

[@dakotamcmillan]

1. if youtube isn't making money off of all of these things, I would be very surprised, and think that there's a lot of bloat or unnecessary expenses. I think they're just strategic about holding onto that information for a few reasons - mostly probably so there are not more creators demanding more 2. I think that shorts are better than tik toks - i hate the music aspect for the most part anyway. and I think instead of defaulty losing 50% to record labels to have broad access, there should be individual negotiations for music/labels/artists. this means that artists trying to get exposure can lower their "cost to use" just like with youtube's library of music assets that get used a lot, this would be motivation for a lot of musicians to create good short music free or cheap to use. -- on the creator end of this, they wouldn't need to worry about their song choice per se, this can all be back-end stuff that gets automatically tracked and calculated. tl;dr: I think shorts are just fine without giving in to the music industry's power. youtube should instead utilize a free asset library along with allowing artists/record labels/etc to offer particular albums/songs/artists to be used at a certain percent of profit share

[@lithigos]

Ok kinda unrelated but Hank, I’d honestly listen to you talk about anything and everything for hours on end. I’m so glad you have so much content I can watch when I need some Hank Green.

[@anarchyneverdies3567]

This makes me want to make my own music tracks, copyright them, and get paid the 50% + the 45% of KZbin’s cut 😂

[@charlizepate]

XD that’s my plan!

[@ooooneeee]

200 iq 😂

[@Rolfyto]

I’d be really interested to hear your thoughts on a creators guild/union and how that might hypothetically play out and what the obstacles would be. I’m not a creator myself but seeing this space develop over the last 15 years has been fascinating.

[@DaviddeKloet]

It's not hypothetical. Hank Green actually launched The Internet Creators Guild in 2016. And apparently it was quietly shut down in 2019.

[@RobotProctor]

The fact that yt doesn't lose money is crazy to me. It is a free 4k video upload and streaming site... Nuts

[@BillyBraga]

Is probably does...

[@turtleanton6539]

😊

[@madelinemiller3209]

I would be really interested in one of these videos someday explaining your thoughts on unionizing (or something similar) content creators on a given platform.

[@plum999o]

I think it would be very interesting to hear your thoughts on unions for internet creators, Hank. Certainly it's wildly hard to form a union in fields which do not have union organizing history, but I would be curious to hear your thoughts on it!

[@paulkannenberg1223]

+

[@plum999o]

@@yaelmorin9017 Thank you for sharing! That's a shame, and makes sense for how daunting a task it is, but I certainly hope it is not the last attempt to unionize workers / independant contractors working within these fields.

[@GaviLazan]

I was waiting for you to mention the ICG! I remember that, was even a member from the beginning. It had so much potential.

[@Catboygiroux]

I love that Hank is basically like “we need a union but a single union would be a TERRIBLE idea,” And he’s really got the nuance of labor negotiations down.

[@hankschannel]

I said a singe /company/ would be terrible. I think a single union would be amazing, if anyone can get it to work!

[@jucom756]

content creators really should unionise they have power on their viewers and if a union of content creators would strike( and tell their followers about it), the platform would pretty much immediately notice a decline.

[@cmagee79]

A part of me wants to say that KZbin's tenuous relationship with Copyright Holders is so crucial and important and underpinning the core-conceit of all of these shenanigans (which still counts, by the way) that assuaging those parties is SO important to their medium-term goals... means this is what creators get. Also I think Hank probably has some hard Pivot Table skills that would likely blow our damned minds.

[@thubbe9137]

One thing I was a bit suprised about here was that the 4k paywall wasnt mentioned. LTT recently had a video which talked about this in great detail

[@germandoktor]

i read the title and immediately just died inside. shorts are filled with either: - people who make high quality, good content and put it into shorter forms to promote it - people who make really sh*tty (excuse my language), low quality, potentially fake content that gets spread for the wrong reasons. i REALLY hope that youtube monetises these videos effectively.

[@aphoticphantasm6583]

i would love to hear the rant of how creaters forming a union would be tricky. it obviously would be, but im curious about the actual logistical reasons for it and would love to hear your opinions

[@jewelwing]

I have to say as a new YT creator, their treatment of copyrighted music has been SENSIBLE. TikTok has had me bonking my head against how sporked their copyright strike algorithm is: one video of 3 min with credited CC music gets muted; another 3min with the same music is fine. YT has their shit together in this area - CC music, properly attributed, gets zero copyright murmuring and zero revenue removal. THANK YOU YT, FOR SIMPLY HAVING THIS ONE THING TOGETHER - aaaaaagh! I really appreciate these videos Hank, they help me parse how all these different platforms are running their biz and paying us for making the content that makes them EXIST :P

[@DavBotsArcade]

Guild, we need a guild specifically, that word. Not a union or an MCN, a guild. robes, candles, late night meetings in caves discussing Pythagorean mathematics.... Yes.

[@bills8450]

KZbin mislead/lied about something???? WHAAAAAAAA?!?!?!??!

[@AlphabettiSpaghetti123]

Now that you’ve mentioned it, I would love to see you do a video about a KZbin union/guild. I think given the ecosystem of some corners of KZbin it could start out good and well intentioned but inevitably collapse in on itself which would be a shame. I’m probably wrong on that though.

[@fejfo6559]

I would love to learn more about the problems with unionisation of youtubers

[@brain_apostrophe_t]

Forreal, God bless you and the work youre doing. It makes content creation, even for someone as small as me, easier and more informed

[@sowth1967]

This is a certified KZbin classic

[@aerospacenews]

@hankschannel Very much appreciate you producing this video on the sausage making these deals represent and your candor in calling out the statements made by YT. Also props for resisting the impulse during the portion talking about how creators were not at the table, to make a reference, oblique or direct, on how desirable it would be to, "be in the room where it happens, the room where it happens." I'll see myself out.

[@andrineslife]

As someone who makes Google Ads but not TikTok ads for a living this is super fascinating but I'm so into getting to make these new ad types!

[@cloudyview]

Honestly, the cost part of the conversation sorta dovetails well with what Linus (LTT) uploaded today about the cost of supporting 4k

[@isadoravasques9302]

KZbin pissed off creators?! No way!!!!! Crazy

[@littlestbroccoli]

Well, Hank, I just spent one full hour watching the entire history of the taco bell menu hacks shorts channel. Thank you 😂😂

[@Mr.Plant1994]

I’d be interested to know the difference in demographics (age, gender, nationality) for different social platforms, and how they compare.

[@mossworksmedia]

I am extremely disappointed that this isn't an announcement of an Awesome Shorts Club 😭

[@humanaku9135]

Facebook recently revealed that the retention time is 2.5(desktop)/1.7(mobile) seconds. Its been decreasing and it's a really really distressing trend. The implications this has for education of children is worrying

[@WidelyPlayed]

Or it's possible that children are just quicker at parsing Facebook-style posts and sorting them into "invest time into" or "move on" categories. Most things on Facebook are not worth sinking time into, and maybe this is just a reflection of that. I'd also imagine that people who grow up eating a certain type of berry can identify that berry and discern it from other, similar types much quicker than someone who only started at 40. Does this have implications for their overall attention span? I'd say probably not. Just that they're good at sorting berries.

[@Mr.Plant1994]

Facebook or Meta is also a dying platform and I find that older people use it more then younger people, so I’m presuming that the fact that older people on average use Facebook more then younger people I would assume older people are the ones numbing down their attention spans to 1-2 second bits.

[@ignoidisniger8183]

Facebook also count views on videos that play as you scroll by, so those numbers might be off

[@pufthemajicdragon]

That's less distressing if it's limited to just facebook. The same metric for KZbin would likely be VERY different - though shorts will no-doubt reduce that number substantially.

[@thegerda9030]

After you said "but what I THINK..." I got an ad that immediately started with "adopt a donkey", so you know... gotta listen to Hank

[@innovativeatavist159]

I really still prefer the long form content and as a viewer I'm a little worried youtube will prioritize shorts to the exclusion of traditional videos. I already have enough trouble prospecting for gold in this bloated mediascape of sub-par information presented by creators for which there is no barrier to "expertise". But then again, I'm a nerd that mostly uses this place to shove information into my skull in hopes that the 5-10% of it I actually acquire as knowledge will somehow deepen my worldview. My experience may be atypical.

[@flamencoprof]

Your experience may be atypical but it is not unique.

[@cait812]

In fairness KZbin has already started prioritising shorter content over truly long form content. Seems to be 10-12 minute content or straight up shorts that get promoted.

[@ButtonGirl22]

I feel like a body/union like the Players’ Associations with sports leagues seems like the most logical next step, but obviously easier said than done

[@paulkannenberg1223]

I know it's a lot of work,but I'd really love to hear your thoughts on why a creators union would be really difficult and thorny, and if there's any history of organizing KZbin.

[@pegmama8]

Hank is a big part of that history I believe! I know he tried to make a “creator’s guild,” but that’s about all I remember of it

[@GESAM121]

I’ve been waiting for this video. Always appreciate the explanation

[@Below-Zero]

Hello thanks for the info Hank

[@maura462]

I know each record label is so different, but on a different front I'd be curious about of the 50% cut the record labels take, how much the artist get on average. Thanks so much to discuss these nuances of monetization

[@bigdadbeefsticks]

So..... Bad news! Edit: I think the worst part about this is that the record labels are going to continue to screw over artists regardless.

[@dracogoldhoard6870]

Shorts are mainly good for giving me an interesting 30 seconds of longer videos to go watch but after so long of just shorts I mostly feel like I've wasted time and gained nothing