How Skyrim’s Opening KILLS Your Roleplaying Options

[@Takarias]

Have you come up with a character origin that you're proud of? Doesn't even have to be Skyrim!

[@foca7550]

I always roleplay as a Dunmer who immigrated to Windhelm (via mods ofc). Granted it’s a bit hard considering you can’t do much to improve ethnic relations or the quality of life for Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm/Skyrim (and you also cannot kill that abhorrent racist nord that harasses people in Grey Quarter) but I digress. Love your videos man, they are well throughout and put together!

[@ShadowmarkReturns]

I made an ex bandit khajiit from Skyrim who when trying to migrate his clan of brigands to cyrodil was ambushed by a platoon of soldiers. Betrayed by one of his own via information leak he was captured and brought to the imperial city. After a few years of prisoner life he started to turn a new leaf given lots of time to reflect on his actions and who he is. He took up an oath of non-lethal violence. (Hand-to-hand) Then eventually he was dragged out once more by the imperials. First by carriage, and now by boat, to the east, to Morrowind.

[@zoltier]

My first Morrowind character was a Dunmer orphan raised by Imperial farmers living in a rural area near Chorrol who ended up getting framed for a murder on a trip to the Imperial City after the death of his stepparents. I also felt really satisifed with my last Oblivion character's backstory even though it was way simpler. Just a poor Argonian man (probably like 19 y/o) from the Waterfront District imprisoned due to not being a very good thief. It's hard for me to ever really get into roleplaying in Skyrim because of how much it forces on you with both the story and quests I don't want to accept or have no other options to complete. It's just frustrating and obviously built with completionism in mind unlike the previous games.

[@eriks_trip]

I've got this Orc Artificer/Archeologist character I've run in DnD and Skyrim whose name changes frequently but his story and traits remain mostly the same. An expert on ancient technologies (specifically dwemer) and magical enchantments, he's adept with a hammer and shield, proficient in crossbows, and even dabbles in spellcasting. He makes his own Dwemer equipment out of scrap and enchants them himself (he never uses precious Dwemer artifacts found in ruins -- those belong in museums.) I sort of jokingly refer to him as an "experimental archeologist," using ancient techniques out in the field to test how Dwemer warriors fought. I've also got some mods that let me "hack" automatons.

[@Takarias]

This reminds me of a character I made once in Morrowind who branded himself as an incredible magician. The gimmick was that he had 0 magicka and it was actually all enchanted items, potions, and scrolls. A magical con man. It was a fun character. I should revisit it :)

[@JonnyCrackers]

This is exactly why alternate start mods are so popular. No more long intro sequence, and lots of options that make your character make sense.

[@Takarias]

Live Another Life is very well done, but I find it just isn't able to stop the player from falling into the main quest. Skyrim railroads too hard

[@JonnyCrackers]

@@Takarias Try Skyrim Unbound. You can set your character to non-dragonborn and the main quest won't start. You can also make it so you can't learn shouts if you want to.

[@imonke5303]

Shouts aren't exclusive to the dragonborn anyway, anyone can learn them

[@JonnyCrackers]

@@imonke5303 Just pointing out that the option is there.

[@Takarias]

It's more that you have to *work* to avoid the main quest. Side quests in Skyrim don't really send you to places where you'll pick up other side quests - they send you to a dungeon that you fast travel back from. Small adventures that you can't get lost in.

[@RNS_Aurelius]

One of my biggest issues with Bethesda's design direction is not letting the player make mistakes or be committed to something. If I make a high elf mage I can immediately pivot to being a heavy armour warrior, then a stealth archer. I can join every faction and be the leader with no real effort or even skill in what they specialise in. I can not say no to a quest, essential npcs are everywhere and even the rewards I got for most things feel meaningless when I will just craft something significantly better.

[@Takarias]

It's a real shame that they're so afraid of allowing the player to miss out on something during a single playthrough. It's like they don't even understand the benefits of multiple characters.

[@elYisusdelaNazza]

Amen to all of that bru. You can only really roleplay via mods or headcanon ("my character is a blacksmith that doesn't know Alchemy or Enchanting", etc). About the last one, I fondly remember the GAULDUR AMULET, that supposedly made you the most powerful mage on Tamriel... and is significantly worse than anything double-enchanted by you.

[@arekkrol9758]

personally thats my favourite thing about elder scroll series (except arena) not being bound by class and the faction thing really applies only to skyrim, in daggerfall factions were a huge grind, meanwhile in morrowind it required some skill to NOT be expelled from one of guilds when doing their quests (fighters and thieves, easy to get expelled from thieves)

[@NightshadeDE]

I have been so torn about this for years because I have had plenty of moments where I almost quit a game due to irreversible decisions that either ruin my RP character or completely cut out a section I was really looking forward to. A lot of the time if it’s a longer game odds are I might not get the time to go back and do another play-through so it’s just something I won’t experience. On the other hand I do completely get that’s it is super goofy and hard to explain RP wise why our version of the DB is allowed to join the imperial army after taking out their emperor (etc.) I think ultimately I’m okay with having RPG’s without hard locks or cutting people out of content but my free time is limited so that might paint my final thoughts on that

[@Takarias]

This is a fair argument, and I totally get it. I guess I just don't care about finishing the main quest on every character in TES? My goal going in is typically to explore a character mechanically, with some roleplaying for flavor. I create new characters very often, just to try new things.

[@tacoman10]

On my first playthrough I didn't even know there was a choice at Helgen. I just ran into the first door I saw to get away from the scary dragon.😂

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

same I was probably distracted because I didn't noticed Ralof and followed hadvar immediately.

[@thedarkness75]

I think that’s how it was for most people. Very first playthrough, there was a lot going on in that scene and most people just ran through the first door they saw. You didn’t really realize there was a choice until the second play through

[@NealBones]

Did you know if you don't go into either door fast enough, Alduin comes off of the roof and eats you 😂 I cackled the first time I let it happen and thought about treating it like a nuzlocke and just letting that be the end of that character 😂

[@patchmoulton5438]

Honestly, even if you knew about the choice on the first playthrough, it just makes no sense to try and go out of your way to flee with the Imperials (their door being further than the Stormcloaks and all). I mean, they were going to execute you for unspecified crimes not five minutes ago. Even if you want to rp as a hardcore Imperial, its hard to justify after that.

[@doubtful_seer]

In a way, you just roleplayed as yourself if you were in that world lol

[@LeleiTheTigress]

You know the worst thing about the civil war premise? You can't tell that there is a war going on most of the time. You don't see battlefields, you don't see destroyed areas, you don't even get to see any skirmishes between Stormcloaks and Legionnaires. The only time you even hear/see the war is from NPCs, and the civil war questline itself. And even during the questline, battles only happen when you make them happen. The latter leading into a whole other issue I have with Skyrim and Bethesda games in general. And let's not even mention how short and underwhelming the civil war questline is; you could easily complete it in less than 30 minutes or 2 in-game days.

[@EricJohnson-z3r]

The worst thing is that they said they cut half the civil war content because they were rushing to release when they did, but then never reintroduced any of that content in the 50,000 re-releases and remasters they did.

[@NoName-mi8js]

The funny thing is, you see the civil war mainly from the secondary effects of it. That of increased bandits.

[@Zorothegallade-rpg]

Because Bethesda has been recycling the same game engine for over 20 years by now and it will shit itself and crash the game if it has to render something more complex than 6-7 character models swinging at each other. Of course, when that happens they just take another huff of their own farts and cope by saying that people just need to buy more powerful PCs so they can run their unoptimized slop. The Creation engine was 10 years old by the time Skyrim came out and it was already outdated. That they kept using it for Starfield is the telltale sign everyone at that company is a creatively bankrupt bellend.

[@negative6442]

TW3 does an excellent job at showing the effects of war on a region.

[@TheBreakingBenny]

​@@Zorothegallade-rpg Bethesda basically became YandereDev and defend their crappy engine code, and that guy thinks his code for Yandere Simulator is perfectly fine when it puts your framerate at… 15 FPS when there are many students going around, but you get a significant boost if and when they all suddenly drop dead.

[@TheIrishRushin]

I can't even do the civil war quest without becoming dragonborn. Balgruf will not talk to you until the dragon is dead. Which means I have run up to bleak falls, get the golden claw, spin the each dial twice to get the stone and bug out. At that point I'm not a regular soldier anymore. Role playing in a role playing game is essential for role play. Multiple play throughs with different paths is essential. We don't need to see the whole game in one run like Todd thinks.

[@Ay-xq7mj]

That doesnt make sense. Its basically just you have to be dragonborn like how geralt has to be geralt or dragonage has to do very specific things, etc. You may have a correct criticism in head that expresses your issues but comment misses mark.

[@TalonBrush]

@@Ay-xq7mj A lot of people actually don't like having to be The Chosen One. They actually just want to start as "just some guy", pick their own course and work their way up.

[@scalycoronet5198]

@@Ay-xq7mjI think the criticism is the order of events. Like, you can join the war as a regular soldier, but you can’t complete it until you’ve progressed through the main story enough that you become the dragonborn. At that point, you’re the chosen one with bigger and better things to do, you’re not a random soldier anymore. The intro sets up the civil war to be one of the first things you should care about, making you pick sides immediately, suggesting that you visit your respective leaders, but then you can’t actually progress through it until you’ve become named the Dragonborn. I can see how that might make roleplaying more difficult. It’s just another example of how Skyrim tries to funnel you down paths and box you in

[@Strideo1]

​@@TalonBrushI'd prefer not to play a "chosen one" as well but the game literally advertises that you're going to be the Dragonborn so it's kind of odd to start playing the game and be like "Aww shucks, I gotta be the Dragonborn! Darn." The game tries to give the player some freedom (with varying degrees of success) in deciding what kind person the Dragonborn is but I can't really fault the game for making you play as the Dragonborn at some point when that's kinda what it says on the tin.

[@stickytim64]

​You have a valid response and your argument makes sense. The issue is though, that the civil war is the only quest line not in dlc that forces you to be the dragonborn. You can become the archmage, head of the thieves guild, listener for the db and harbinger for the companions without ever seeing a dragon, but being a regular soldier is impossible. It makes it stand out and unfortunately takes the meat of your argument out a little. TLDR: only the civil war forces you to be db, no other quest lines.​@@Strideo1

[@o11o1o1oj]

on a more serious note, one of my major gripes with skyrim has always been the fact that it's virtually impossible to roleplay as an intelligent, well-informed character. you can't feel like you're part of the setting or like you know anything about it, you're always an ignorant outsider. nothing hurts quite as bad as talking to wylandriah and being genuinely interested in applied harmonics, but your only dialogue options are "wow i understand nothing" and "uhhh yeah totally! i know all about that haha! [LYING]". i understand that this was done for exposition reasons- if a new player had the option to click on "Yeah I already know all that, proceed" every time maybe they'd never learn any lore whatsoever- but it gets tiring to be constantly railroaded into the dumb adventurer/greedy treasurehunter archetype in dialogue. i never got that sense in morrowind because there's no real player dialogue anyway, just topics, so you can imagine your character saying "Saltrice? I've never heard of that. What on Nirn is that?" or you can imagine them saying "Ah, the beloved agricultural staple! What else can you tell me about saltrice cultivation?" or whatever you'd like. they're less responses and more open-ended prompting. (also i LOVE how your intelligence stat gets you more insight in the haj-ei quest, i wish there was more of that!) lore-wise part of this could be chalked up to the nature of The Prisoner, i get that, but ehhh. if i'm the archmage of winterhold, let me know stuff about magic damn it. if i've read books, let there be a "i've heard of the daedric princes" option instead of forcing my character to be completely clueless 🥲 (ALSO thank you for acknowledging how weird siding with the empire is. first time i saw people saying they "always pick hadvar", i was a bit baffled. the guy working for the people who just tried to cut your head off for no reason??)

[@Takarias]

Seeing that long list of darkened topics is definitely a visual representation of your character's accumulated knowledge. I will occasionally try to roleplaying my side of Morrowind conversations, kind of a puzzle of trying to fit in a phrase that sounds at least somewhat natural. I did not notice until recently how the Morrowind system lets me define my character's voice in a way later Bethesda games do not. *Especially* Fallout 4, but even the others define my voice by the tone of the voice acting.

[@Fluxikator]

@@Takarias There is also another Trend in RPGS. The Choice you make in dialogue gets obfuscated in newer games. (No Neccesarrily bethesta games) Meaning: In Older games your character would exactly say what you have choosen. In newer games you chose an option thiinking its A but the caracter says something totally different. Thats really an annoying thing.

[@TengrioftheCrimsonSky]

​@@Fluxikatoryeah absolutely hate that. You choose something benign like "let the prisoner go" and you say something along the lines of "yeah run away you filthy scum...men shoot them all!" Like I dialed it up a bit but seriously half the time I'm going for a neutral response to a situation I technically have no say in or care for technically and the game finds a way to either make me whiny or a jerk about it.

[@ralonnetaph6450]

Nelacar: Tell me, what do you know about soul gems. Player with 100 enchanting and every perk: They're for enchanting, right? this one specifically has always bothered me

[@VenathTehN3RD]

I think my biggest problem with the character's distinct lack of any kind of knowledge in Skyrim compared to something like Morrowind (aside from, as you mentioned, Morrowind having topics that allow you to RP why/how your character is saying things instead of designated responses) is that while some of it is absolutely plausible, some of it is just ridiculous for any character not to know. For instance, in Morrowind the majority of the story and sidequests all revolve around Vvardenfell, or expand slightly beyond that into Morrowind proper and Solstheim, and your character is explicitly an outsider to the region. Something specific enough that it justifies why you might not know much (if anything) about the region, but broad enough that it still provides a lot of room for roleplaying where your character comes from. It makes sense that someone from Hammerfell or Cyrodiil wouldn't know much (if anything) about the Tribunal aside from maybe knowing that it's some kind of church that worships three local kings who haven't even been very active in their own country for a few decades now. There are similar things like that in Skyrim, of course. It makes sense that someone from outside of Skyrim might not know who the Companions are, or what's up with the College of Winterhold. But it feels really silly when your character is asking, let's say for example, "Who are the Aldmeri Dominion/Thalmor?" Local guilds are one thing, but for your character to somehow be completely oblivious to the existence of a nation that has had a massive impact on the political, military, religious, and cultural landscape of the entirety of Tamriel within roughly the last 25-30 years?

[@utopiandystopia1383]

i love joining the thieves guild and being forced to become the worshipper of a god and having 0 option to side with mercer, y'know, the guy doing what every thief would. Thank you bethesda very cool

[@SuperNovaDragonYT]

Aside from the fact that he tried killing you, I would agree

[@hauntingstarfish149]

Seriously, every time i do that questline, I keep the skeleton key just like he did

[@chaincat33]

I can understand not being able to side with mercer on account of mercer probably doesn't want to side with you, but being forced to sell your soul to a daedric prince for questionably okay armor and 3 abilities you can only have 1 of, 2 of which are mediocre and the last one is okay at best.

[@jacksmythe2187]

Its funny seeing the lovable guild of rogues trope be broken apart by one dude deciding he just wants to be a normal crook and rip anyone he can off

[@Spewb]

The TG isn't even likeable in Skyrim either. It's not bad guy vs Robin Hoods, it's honest bad guy vs dishonest bad guys. I like that it has a darker tone than Oblivion and isn't just another Robin Hood story, but - I do wish you could ignore Nocturnal and side with Mercer, and as guildmaster you had the choice of the direction it goes in. Turn it *into* a more charity oriented Robin Hood guild and betray Maven, make it more chaotic and evil by stealing and all the other crimes it does indiscriminately including allowing murder. Anything to make it feel like your title as guildmaster actually makes you a leader who makes a difference.

[@jadethest0ne]

I'm a DM for a couple D&D groups and I know comparing video games and TTRPGs isn't always helpful. But this reminds me of a rule that I often hear as a DM - don't remove your players' agency. And by proxy - don't have them be captured and unable to do anything about it. The players will rebel, and it often ends in disaster and no fun and little actual roleplay. And I think this video kind of maintains that spirit. Even if you do decide to go with the "captured" route - leave the player's options for who they were beforehand and where they go forward open. Thanks for the video!

[@Takarias]

I get the need to constrain the player for the start of the game to tutorialize and introduce the setting. Skyrim is just not great at keeping that setup flexible

[@Laezar1]

I had a game I played where I had specifically asked the DM about making grenades with a sleeping drug in them. We got captured shortly after by elite guards and were about to either be executed or sent to lifelong slavery in an undeground mine, as both seemed like a loss condition my reaction was that I HAD to do something and the guards were obviously too strong to fight so I decided to throw all my sleeping grenades hoping it would either let us escape or knock enough out that we had a fighting chance. The DM awkwardly had the grenades not work but also found an excuse to have us not be executed because he wanted the next section to be about being imprisonned and finding a way out and I was just supposed to let things happen without trying to act before it was too late. This felt so damn bad considering the effort I went through to make those and that I used them in a reasonable situation.

[@jadethest0ne]

@@Laezar1 aw man, that sucks! Sleep grenades sound awesome! Sorry you didn't get to use them properly

[@pandomina]

I wish I actually got captured in a TTRPG. Love a good prison break story. But the expectations seems to be that the players win every fight and DMs seem to always make sure of that, even if it requires fudging dice to make it happen.

[@BoneWalker]

I'm afraid skyrim has had an affect on my ability to play rpgs. I have a habit of trying to play a jack of all trades, that likely stems from being able to do anything and everything build wise in skyrim.

[@Takarias]

Lean into a playstyle! Limitations inspire creativity!

[@BoneWalker]

@Takarias It always starts something along the lines of "Oh, I'll be a knight, but wait I need a source of in combat healing, and then there's all these locked doors..." Next thing I know I've essentially taken a level in everything.

[@Takarias]

@@BoneWalker Locks and lock picking are a predicament, for sure. Morrowind solved this by having the security skill, but also making spells and scrolls reasonable alternatives. Morrowind is like that in general: There's usually a straight skill, a spell, a potion, and/or a scroll for any given action, so all characters have access to all effects, it just differs what form that access takes.

[@sneezyfido]

I did this in Morrowind, too. But my preferred style actually *is* a curiosity and exploration driven figure who will find ways to get access to everything everywhere, and especially knownledge. In another world I'd be a Ravenclaw with a decided Slytherin attitude to procurement. Or maybe a hybrid. In yet another world, Azeroth, I was one of those hated true hybrid druids. I'd train new tanks and healers by joining as midrange dps who can instantly shift to tank or healer job if either trainee slips up. With my usual high end crowd we'd handle high end content with me fluidly shifting between offtank, control and healing jobs. We did DiM in rare gear level while raiding guilds complained that even in epic gear it was too difficult. Old person rant over. I need my brown gold meds.

[@imageeknotanerd9897]

@@Takarias Daggerfall also handled locked doors in a pretty good way. Lacking a spell or lockpicking skill, you could just hit the door and it would check against your weapon skill to break the lock open

[@Charvale]

When you're in Riverwood and Ralof says "We were ambushed outside of Dark Water Crossing..." he wasn't referring to the player character, he was referring to the Stormcloaks, including Ulfric - and by "outside of Dark Water Crossing" he means in the mountains above the river. Unfortunately, they were too far from Riften to make their way to the city. Not only that, but the necessary decisions in how to execute Ulfric without trial would've potentially caused the Jarl to side with Ulfric (after all, he would've needed to stand trial - and *that* General Tulius could not allow) and getting closer to Dark Water Crossing would've been a death sentence - so they needed to head further West. Ivarstead was near, but they would find no allies there, so they decided to skirt the village and head for Helgen, but on the way they caught a horse thief and a lone traveler close to the border of Skyrim and Cyrodiil - with the thief trying to steal *your* horse. After that, everything you owned went to the Imperials (including your clothes) and your horse was taken by Hadvar as his riding mount (his was killed in the previous skirmish with the Stormcloaks) so that statement doesn't hold up to scrutiny when you take into account the fact that your character isn't a member of the group.

[@scivoid]

Fun fact, it's still possible to complete the main quest of Daggerfall even if you miss the initial timer. It's similar to Morrowind where you can defeat Dagoth Ur if you know already where you're supposed to go.

[@Takarias]

@@scivoid Y'know, my first draft alluded to this with slightly different wording, but I decided to change it to avoid getting bogged down in explaining how Daggerfall works. :P

[@scivoid]

@@Takarias Heh, that's fair. It's quite a long video as it is!

[@SioxerNikita]

​@@scivoid28 min7tes? Average video Length I watch is slowly going towards 2 hours xD

[@BenefactorER]

The Imperial Library Arena transcript is a mistake on our part due to our recent migration. Should be fixed soon, thank you for pointing it out.

[@Takarias]

I thought it was odd that it wasn't there. Thank you for being an incredible resource for the community

[@Snockooz]

I'm surprised that no one ever talks about lockpicking and how it breaks roleplay. In both Oblivion and Skyrim you can lockpick any lock regardless of level or skill, you(as in the player) just need to be good at the mini game. But if you are playing as a brawler or any kind of character that wouldn't or shouldn't be able to lockpick, you are still basically forced to or lose out on loot. Basically all dungeons have locked chest and lockpick can be found everywhere. I know unlocking spells are a thing, but it would be nice if you could bash them open too so you didn't have to somehow be the best locksmith barbarian.

[@Takarias]

No chests, but Daggerfall allows you to attack doors and bust them open that way. I think the calculation might take strength into account? The downside is that you can only attempt to pick a lock once, but you can attack the door as many times as you like, so lockpicking is ultimately totally irrelevant. I do wish they'd revisit the idea, though.

[@matthews7335]

@@Snockooz I have done several playthroughs where my character can't pick locks. There is plenty of loot in the game, you aren't missing much. Did another where I couldn't loot bodies, that was hard to stick to. Did one where I couldn't craft, buy, store or sell anything. Was limited to what I found and could carry. That one was fun, I might do it again.

[@Takarias]

@@matthews7335 I find it's often enough just to limit yourself to one crafting system. Only enchanting, smithing, or potions. (Or whatever else if I'm missing one via brain fart.)

[@matthews7335]

@@Takarias agreed. No matter my character, they will only use one crafting option. Just doing 2 makes it absurd.

[@kevthepoet]

I did that play through the first time i played cos crafting and enchanting were boring and so was storing extra gear. Turns out I'm too impatient for RPGs so I turned it into an action game lol

[@fightingfortruth9806]

You are not necessarily the chosen one in Morrowind. It is literally left to your own personal interpretation. The game never explicitly tells you for sure, and that is one thing that makes the game so amazing.

[@Takarias]

Dagoth Ur does call you Nerevar, though. Of course, he could just be crazy lol

[@JackPhoenixCz]

The funny thing about the Nerevarine Prophecy is that there were other failed Incarnates before you. It is possible you've been destined from the birth to be the Nerevarine, but it could've been just Azura sending dreams to random schmucks until one performs well enough to get her go-ahead in her scheme to mess with the Tribunal instead of being killed by the Moon-and-Star ring. Daedra princes are powerful, but they are not omniscient. And there's the whole concept of mantling, which is its own can of worms. You're the Nerevarine because you act as the Nerevarine should, so the universe (or the godhead) just accepts that.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

Yeah, that's why I love Morrowind's story so much. Reminds me a lot of the Kwisatz Haderach from Dune. Was Paul really the one or did he just use it for his own ends?

[@drewzero1]

"The thread of prophecy has been severed. Load an earlier save, or persist in the doomed world you have created."

[@fightingfortruth9806]

Morrowind takes the Matrix definition of prophecy/fate, which both originate from an eastern influence. The Nerevarine, like Neo, got to decide themselves whether they were the chosen one and then justify that decision themselves. As the Oracle stated: "You didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it."

[@iapetusmccool]

First time I played, I assumed that the game was setting you up to side with the Stormcloaks, or at least to have the Imperials as antagonists. But then Hadvar started guiding me through the town, and when it came to the choice of whi to side with i didnt actually see the door that Ralof had gone through, so I went through Hadvar's door by default. Meaning i found myself in the really weird situation of findingy myself fighting alongside the people who moments before had been trying to execute me for no reason, against the people who were going to be executed with me. All because I didnt pause long enough before deciding which door to flee through while trying to escape from a dragon.

[@powerdrake2906]

Probably my favourite character I've come up with and roleplayed as was a former argonian slave. It was also a Expert difficulty perma-death run. He was filled with rage and the thirst for revenge at first, but as he spent more time in Skyrim his own anger subsided as he started seeing the many issues the people of Skyrim faced. Realizing the world is bigger than his own vengeance he eventually found out he is the dragonborn and saved the world by defeating Alduin. He also united Skyrim under the empire but ultimately fell at the hands of Miraak.

[@osborne9255]

There's another possibility. That Ulfric and his guard were indeed captured at Darkwater, and they were carted to the border pass as they might have been on their way to the Imperial Capitol. But the pass was clogged with drifts, they captured the Dragonborn crossing into Skyrim without documentation. This would be punishable even if the dragonborn is a Nord. Was he a Nord born somewhere else in the empire? Who knows. One thing makes me wonder; the dungeon under Helgen has a Dragonborn book in the torture chamber. They were interrogating folks, with the book right there (perhaps insinuating they were looking for the dragonborn?) The Thalmor know the dragons and their potential meaning. Good, thoughtful video Tarkarias, very enjoyable.

[@bigoistin9125]

All the helgen prisoners being suspected dragonborns could have been an interesting example of imperial scheming. And unlike the previous two entries, the player and co would be freed before their imperial captors could conscript them.

[@demomanchaos]

They would have absolutely no reason to be looking for one, no big lizards prior to game start

[@glassphoenix9095]

"you were trying to cross the border, right? walked right into that imperial ambush. same as us and that thief over there" "motherfucker ive never seen you before"

[@fargoretro]

I get why Bethesda did it, but I much prefer the limited character paths in Morrowind to the Omnipath Superman style Skyrim character.

[@Takarias]

Agreed! I find it's much more interesting for the player to have mechanical limitations, since that forces the player to come up with creative solutions for problems that arise.

[@JackHugeman]

TES6 is going to find a way to be even worse.

[@Takarias]

You'll have Stealth, Melee, and Mage skill trees, and that's it. No weapon type skills, everything is identical in DPS, and you begin every faction questline as its leader. /s

[@cosmicskydragon333]

I actually find in Morrowind and Oblivion you are the Superman style character. Because of how leveling works, you need to get enough skills up before a level to get 3x the character growth from leveling. If you get too many or little you waste it. You'll have access to everything because the leveling system outright rewards it. You can and should be omnipath.

[@Takarias]

Sure, if you metagame you can become incredibly powerful. If you don't, you grow into a character that is very powerful in specific areas, and you never lose needing to find creative solutions. Oblivion is a little different because the level scaling is wonky.

[@JimUK]

Skyrim is the game where I started to go off Bethesda, I'd played Morrowind for what must have been thousands of hours back in the day and while I had a few issues with Oblivion I played it through multiple times so it couldn't have been that bad. Skyrim has a stunning world but to me it felt more like a theme park just as Fallout 3's world did, nothing I did made me feel like I'd made a difference and I wasn't given any reason to care about any of it. For me the problems started with the opening, no sane person would side with the guys who were about to separate you from your head and you wouldn't side with them in the war for the same reason, the Imperials are introduced to the player in a way an antagonist would be introduced.

[@Takarias]

Fallout 3 grabbed me, but I'm a bit predisposed to enjoying post-apocalypse media. I think it deserves saying that the mechanics of VATS hooked me, too: I played it on console, where the controls were so bad that VATS was the only way I could reliably hit anything. It turned the game into a cover-based pseudo-turn based shooter, and I found that pretty interesting.

[@JimUK]

@@Takarias I think the exploration is where the game really shined, for me the world felt like a theme park but one worth exploring because there was so much cool stuff to find that those following the main quest marker would miss. Many would have missed out on that exploration, the main quest all took place on the bottom third of the map with the exception of Raven Rock but even then you're teleported to it and would no doubt fast travel back, that leaves two thirds of the map full of things to see but no reason to go there, it's poor design, contrast that to games like Morrowind, Oblivion and New Vegas where the player is sent to places all around the world. I think those who didn't like Fallout 3 should give it another try, only this time when they leave Vault 101 they should ignore the main story and just head north, it's much a better experience.

[@sneezyfido]

​@@JimUKI remember my time in FO3 as a good time. But I can't really get back into it thanks to how specific the skill points are. It feels like I need to have most of my skills planned ahead at least on draft level. Which reminds me that back then I did just that. Which in turn reminds me that I had a very rough time in Morrowind until I explicitly designed my class choice to help me control my level progress. This is one of the good things about Skyrim. You are less likely to screw your high level self over through just smelling the flowers gameplay.

[@JimUK]

@@sneezyfido Yeah, Morrowind is old school, you can have a very bad time if you don't plan ahead.

[@thedarkness75]

Skyrim‘s biggest claim to fame is its impact on the modding community. Morrowind and oblivion did have mods but Skyrim took that to a whole different level. I know this video was just about the vanilla games So I’m kind of cheating, but the possibilities are endless.

[@jesusgavalda6949]

I would actually say that the intro itself is pretty good for roleplaying in the sense that as long as you can find a reason for you pg to be close to the border on that specific day (ralof says crossing the border but maybe the guards just find you close and thought you were a rebel scout) ,then the intro works for you, yes it is very long, but you can be an unlucky farmer that happened to be visiting someone or delivering a letter etc. who hides during the whole escape behind Harvar or Ralof, or you could be a necromancer that was looking for ingredients when captured ( with some exceptions, for example your pg can’t already be a rebel stormcloack unless you ignore the fact they don’t know you) the biggest problem about rp’ing in skyrim, as others said in the comments, lies within some mechanics in the game itself, like quests, leveling system etc.

[@Perroden]

One of my head cannons i often use is "my guy was trying to find ulfric to join the stormcloaks" and thats how i got caught. You could say you were trying to find ulfric to end the war if you want to go imperial. And yeah its always bothered me how you can join every faction, be a companion with only spells or join the mages never casting a single spell. Or destroy the thieves guild like you can dark brotherhood. Even worse is you have to join the thieves guild and get pretty far into it just so you can get a shout.

[@SioxerNikita]

One thing, you are already rewriting the game to fit your headcanon there. Shouldn't be necessary to be "blank". Of course a video game will have limitations. Oblivion and Morrowind is purely "you are a prisoner", that's it, no crime, no motivation, nothing, and skyrim could've done the same. You were just captured alongside. No mention od crossing the border, no motivation. That's the major difference

[@Perroden]

@SioxerNikita i completely agree. Noble six from the halo series is a great example too. They give you a little background to work with and ppl loved it. Its still especially your character

[@SioxerNikita]

@Perroden Halo is not really a roleplaying style game, so kind of irrelevant. Lack of details there is just that... well... details not necessary

[@Perroden]

@SioxerNikita i was just talking about the character of noble six. Noble six is a near blank slate for you the player design. Just like nate and nora in fallout 4 and skyrim, they are all still your characters to build off of.

[@JettVideogamesAccount]

Still, Skyrim has more roleplay options than Fallout 4. At least you don't HAVE to be a 108th Infantry Regiment veteran, father to a disappointment son, husband of wife who's shot, owner of Codsworth, etc.

[@Takarias]

Yeah... Fallout 4 was a roleplaying disaster. Starfield is better in the character origin department, but the NG+ mechanic is awful.

[@JettVideogamesAccount]

@ Yeah both Fallout 4 and Fallout 3 should have let you be anyone you want like Fallout New Vegas did. I liked Fallout 3 but it would be alot funner if I wasn't forced to look for my father Liam Neeson the entire game.

[@SuperBatSpider]

I mean, being given a family is fine, been done in 3 which is nowhere near as disliked. But the rest… yeah.

[@JettVideogamesAccount]

@@SuperBatSpider I agree with that. Being given a family or at least others you consider kin is fine, i've seen it done perfectly in the mod "Fallout: New California". But not when it gives me very little wiggle room to make up my character's background story on my own.

[@patchmoulton5438]

@@SuperBatSpider Why it worked in FO3 is that you play as the kid and develop your backstory in the vault. Nate will ALWAYS be a 108th vet. Norah will ALWAYS be the housewife. You cant build either of them up before the bombs drop (such as Nate being in a support role or Norah having interest in a gun club). And a lot of that has to do with the removal of skills.

[@nakano15]

There are actually a few moments where you have dialogues that can make up your character backstory, like in the quest "No one escapes the Cidna Mines.". If you cooperate with the Forsworns there, there's a moment where he gives you questions about your character backstory and you can answer anyway you want, but the choices in your dialogue are totally irrelevant after that dialogue.

[@Backswell]

They need to get rid of the enemy leveling system, theres no better feeling than starting out a game and having to avoid going to an area due to enemies that will let you know you’re new, and don’t have the gear and skills to survive there. And if you can pull it off get in there and get some good loot. There’s a reason that one frost troll on the monk path is a more memorable enemy than Alduin the main antagonist of the plot. That thing wasn’t a leveled fight, I had to use every scroll, summon spell and fireball I had to get him out because I was level 5 and he didn’t give a f*ck.

[@BKPrice]

I do have one issue with your analysis. The Stormcloaks being ambushed in Darkwater Crossing and ending up where they are at the start of the game is not illogical. Based on my memory, Darkwater Crossing is in the southern part of Eastmach, a hold controlled by the Stormcloaks. Going north from there would be to face constant ambush from Stormcloaks, especially if you're carrying their dear leader. West isn't much better, as there is a major stronghold manned by bandits along the road to Whiterun. So it's not illogical to choose the southern route, skirting the western edge of Riften Hold through Ivarstead, a rather unassuming town, and going up into the mountains toward Helgen. That would be the route of least resistance. But more importantly, the road you are going down during that intro sequence is the road that passes by an Imperial fort, Newstead or something like that, I forget the name. I believe there is a Stormcloak mission to attack that fort and rid it of the Imperials at one point. So one might expect the Imperials to take prisoners, especially high-profile prisoners on a path that isn't well-trodden and might be more difficult but that leads to a major imperial fortification. There they would naturally hold the prisoners for a time. Tullius probably wasn't there and they would have waited for him to arrive before moving on to Helgen. Furthermore, your character's time of capture is not specified, and could have been joined with the Stormcloak prisoners at the fort some time after their capture and arrival, which doesn't require your character to have been in a coma in order to wake up in the cart when they do.

[@valentinchappa6702]

Strange how they don't acknowledge your point.

[@Takarias]

@@valentinchappa6702 I did, though. Coming north from the Pale Pass still requires that Tullius is unaware of the Pale Pass's closure due to avalanche. Regarding Fort Neugrad, it is inhabited by bandits at the start of the game. It passes into Imperial or Stormcloak control based on your actions in the civil war.

[@aetherkid]

​@Takarias every fort is inhabited by bandits before the Civil War quest that uses it. That's most likely a gameplay conceit. In Canon, it makes no sense for so many bandit forts to exist, especially during wartime. We can assume, narratively, that the respective armies hold the forts the entire time.

[@BKPrice]

@@Takarias My analysis was primarily based on how the Civil War questline sets things up. From what I remember, they don't acknowledge prior bandit occupation for those forts, and the maps with the red and blue flags on them have it marked with a blue flag even before you join the war. I tend to agree with aetherkid that it's more of a gameplay conceit for those who might not do the civil war stuff so they still can have content in those forts. That being said, there is no denying that they are occupied by bandits initially in the game, so if you go strictly by that my explanation wouldn't work. However, I think they set that scene up with an Imperial Neugrad in mind, and if you don't visit the fort before becoming part of the Civil War you'd never know and the game will not acknowledge that it was ever occupied by bandits.

[@Tulinisadumbchicken]

To be fair almost every faction in the game does torture so the Imperials aren't any worse in that way.

[@pelinalwhitestrake3367]

One captain decides to execute you and Hadvar obeys, because he's a lower rank than a captain, and even then, he later helps you escape into the dungeon and unties you if you follow him. But players ignore that and paint the entire Empire as bad.

[@rickymartin4457]

You aren't necessairily the choosen one in Morrowind, or well er..at least the choosen one by pure chance. There is a lot of dialogue that leaves it to the player to decide if you're really the prophesized hero, or just some random dude who was at the right place at the right time.

[@PowerfulRift]

The Cinematic Cutscene says otherwise.

[@rickymartin4457]

@PowerfulRift It does in fact not. What Azura says to you, she said to countless others.

[@Takarias]

I love that this ambiguity exists, I just didn't think that was a rabbit hole I should get lost in during a Skyrim video. I would argue that, by successfully fulfilling the prophecy, you *become* the Nerevarine, even if you were not at the start of the game.

[@rickymartin4457]

@@Takarias That's a valid way to look at it too ofc, but there is specific dialogue at multiple points in the main quest, that let's players who reject the 'phrophesized hero notion', roleplay as just some insanely lucky random dude. Ofc players who want to be the choosen one can easily roleplay that too.

[@Zorothegallade-rpg]

Oblivion is also good in that regard in that Uriel Septim used relatively mundane divination to determine you would be the one to assist Martin in solving the Oblivion crisis. You are still a prophesied one, but it's a prophecy that involves events in the span of a few months tops, not millennia.

[@Chibi1986]

20:42 - One thing about this part of Hadvar's line that annoys me? If you pick an Argonian, he asks about your origins with a bad line take. "Are you a relative of one of the Riften dock workers, Argonian?" Where that comma is, it sounds like he stopped the sentence early with a ?, and then says 'Argonian?' as though he's responding to someone who told him what race someone is and he was surprised by the answer. On the positive side, the Helgen Opening mod, which changes how the opening plays and changes some VAs, fixes that bad line read. Once again, Bethesda's work being done by modders.

[@Takarias]

Honestly, most of Hadvar's lines sound drunk...

[@ratcarpet]

one of the worst production issues bethesda has (a problem beginning with oblivion and somehow still a recurring problem even today!) is inadequate vocal direction. even now a large amount of 'minor conversation' dialogue lines are handed to the voice actors completely out of order, which makes it nearly impossible for them to create a natural flow between sentences. for oblivion in particular, every single dialogue line was recorded in *alphabetical order* and usually without any context provided; this created the constant issues where a character's voice not only has the wrong tone but a completely different accent between lines. it's something that they still haven't fully joined industry standard practice on, seemingly because directing and engaging with the rank-and-file actors outside of the marquee hires like patrick stewart and liam neeson is simply not a production priority

[@KanonHara]

I just went back and listened to that Argonian line. To me it sounds more like he's referring to "Argonian" as though it's a person's name, like "Argonian" is the name of one of the Riften Dock Workers.

[@DRxBACON]

The acknowledgment of the fact that a lot of us listen to your videos in the background and may still want to see the map. This is why we love you, sir.

[@Takarias]

I know the kind of content I make, and it's the kind of thing I watch, myself :)

[@Triaxx2]

So the thing about Skyrim, is that outside of this initial dungeon, is that you're free to basically flip the middle finger to any content at any time and go do something else. It's not so much a railroad as it is, a main street. It's pretty wide, and easy to just fall into traveling down in a straight line until Alduin falls into your path and sets you on fire. However the game was clearly designed with an understanding that most players will not only stray from the beaten path, but that they will joyfully, gloriously, force their way through a bramble with huge sharp thorns, rather than go anywhere near the path. Fire up Skyrim, and pretend Bleak Falls Barrow doesn't exist. Now, go visit the dragon walls. Ignore the annoying noises they make and pay attention to the areas around them. Without the dragons, you will notice that for the most part, they are not unguarded. Skeletons at the wall in Eastmarch, Frost trolls on the one northwest of Whiterun on the border with Hjaalmarch. One of them in the reach is home to a forsworn encampment. These are all details that a lot of players simply wouldn't know about because they hop on the main plot train and never leave it. I see you have a video about Morrowind and it's slow travel. That's even more relevant in Skyrim. There's quite a lot of Skyrim you simply will never encounter if you use fast travel to get around. Little interactions such as the revelers, or like me, if you come up for a breath of fresh air during Blackreach you'll get to see Alduin busy resurrecting the local dragon. There are waterfalls and bits of beauty scattered around Skyrim you'll never know about if you're busy teleporting everywhere. However, when I play this way and I do it almost always, I don't use mods or anything to turn it off, for a few reasons. One of which is sometimes companions just... poof. And you can fast travel to where you are and that brings them back. Another is, well, I'm in Ivarstead and I have no qualms about using fast travel to reach the Greybears because... fluff the 7000 steps more than once per character. The downside of course is that it breaks the dragon spawning system that causes them to spawn when time passes after a fast travel/carriage ride. There are mods to fix it but it's something to be aware of.

[@rand0mlyhere]

This is all EXACTLY why I usually find myself blitzing past the Helgen dragon attack; sprinting by the guards below just to get outside and actually decide how the game starts for myself. While I don’t have the innate love of Skyrim that many others do, it’s still a game for me to cozy up with and relax. It has such horrible railroading though that even after doing all that, going somewhere completely different and starting there… I end up back in Whiterun fetching the wizard’s damned tablet, becoming the dragonborn, and opening a bunch of guard dialogue that really no longer pertains to the ‘character’ I was playing. Maybe this experience is why I have a hard time branching out to other Bethesda games, but I do hope that the next Elder Scrolls learns the lessons of its predecessors and ‘sibling’ games to become one of Bethesda’s best RPGs to date. Fingers crossed they let us pick the opening somehow to REALLY let us loose with the possibilities.

[@tjeffrey2900]

My Father always tells me that his favourite elder scrolls was Arena

[@bluzo9499]

To this day having a pop up b4 you exit helgen to remake your character would be nice every single other bethesda game to my knowledge has a moment like that would make the game so much more replayable imo

[@michaelwautraets7126]

just save before you get off the cart

[@KanonHara]

The strange thing is Oblivion and the Fallout games already implemented this before Skyrim. And they brought it back in Fallout 4.

[@HickoryDickory86]

Bethesda doesn't make RPGs, and they really need to drop the act of doing so. They build open-world sandbox action-adventure games with light role-playing elements, but they don't make RPGs.

[@chaserseven2886]

They do make RPGs

[@TroySavary]

No video game is truly an RPG, if you want to be pedantic. None of any backstory you invent ever becomes part of the game. You do no really RP with NPCs, you select from a multiple choice option of dialogue.

[@ionaerofeeff]

You play the role of the Last Dragonborn, a Hero, an Unbound Prisoner. Technically speaking, it is an RPG, due to this. But, I do agree that it's lighter than other games and the actual matter of making choices is either minor or hardly consequential, with the exception of a few quest outcomes.

[@ambiguouszenithar]

​@@ionaerofeeffwould you look someone dead in the eyes and say call of duty is an rpg because you play the role of xyz soldier?

[@ionaerofeeff]

@ambiguouszenithar No, but I can say Skyrim is more of an RPG than Call of Duty.

[@CardboardArm]

I think the introduction to the civil war is great. You start with the typical 'rebels must be the good guys' vibe but there are hints that there is more to it. Ralov being one, Tulius' first reaction to the dragon being to protect the civilians instead of securing the prisoners another. The fact that the fanbase is so divided on which the correct choice is, is a testament to great Bethesda writing, which is not a phrase I thought I would ever say.

[@sneezyfido]

I've always felt that Bethesda is good at writing a world, where Obsidian is good at writing a story. The closest we've seen to an all-star collaboration was New Vegas. It would have been incredible to have a full collab between those teams.

[@rommdan2716]

​@@sneezyfido Bethesta is not even good at writing a world either

[@michaelcreech8957]

ill give it to you that Tulius being more concerned about the civilians shows he's a decent guy but hearing him two minutes later mid dragon attack saying "we're leaving" like apparently his plan was to have the civilians hide and then... run away? and its not like Ulfric and the storm cloaks would've been any use in the fight they're unarmed at this point their only option was a mad dash away from the dudes about to behead them

[@articusramos808]

The whole delima with Parthanaax alone was a big split. Even if you modded it where you can tell Delphen off and make her play nice would been a good flex in the base game. The choice between who is right and wrong is a tough one.

[@sufficient4834]

The Stormcloaks have practical arguments, but the Thalmor is a threat to reality itself

[@antoniczarnecki9455]

I had to stop and say "How cultured!" when you gave a heads up on showing a map. Suprisingly well put together video and you kept a balance between making points and entertaining so as to not sound monotone and I was able to pay attention to the full video - quite an achievement, considering my ADHD. Enjoyable, thank you.

[@TheUstnap]

27:19 It's funny to me too. As an aside the very first time I played Skyrim, when told we should split up, I actually did. And then when I started a new character was surprised at all the little dialogue and story bits that I missed out on for doing what the game asked of me. 😅

[@konahrik7958]

Although Morrowind is my favorite TES, and probably one of my favorite games, Skyrim was my first elder Scrolls and I love the series as a role (currently starting a daggerfall unity playthrough). And I find it very funny, as you said, that they presented us with the "faction" choices in the start of the game, like, there's absolutely no reason to go with the people who just tried to murder you if you are thinking of RP sake. Also I believe that the civil war would do a great video by it self, I really don't like the way it leaves the world, but it's one of the quests that the players action have impact on. Great video as always.

[@Takarias]

One of very few quests, unfortunately. I understand they want to avoid another Dragon Break situation, but they've gone too far in locking down the player's ability to have an impact. Hope you enjoy Daggerfall - it's a *very* different game, but it's a super interesting entry to the franchise.

[@konahrik7958]

​@@Takarias Yeah i agree, hope on the next TES (I know I'm being to optmistic) we'll have better impact. Until now i'm having a great time with daggerfall! Unity has made it a lot more acessible, and I will be forever grateful to their work.

[@FinesseFather]

If that stormcloak shoulder wasn’t so ready to die he might have lived 😂

[@Emenblade]

I liked and subscribed for more pedantic lore bits.

[@Takarias]

Oh no, now I have to live up to expectations! Thank you for the support

[@thnecromaniac]

I started with Skyrim, and I still say Morrowind is the best RPG of all time, I wish we had more games like it 😢

[@jimcalhoun361]

I haven't finished the main quest line in over 7 years. The first 5 years I played out every combination I could think of all the way to the end and feel no real compunction to do it again other than get the quests out of my journal and satisfy my obsessive need t o complete everything and I've reached a point where I can keep even that under control now. You only need 5 shouts to finish the game, 2 of which you don't need to use except early in the game. I haven't figured out why I love this game so much.

[@aidenwrath1402]

The lore of my character is that they’ve been trapped in a time loop of sorts, becoming increasingly more ruthless and cold to the world in each loop as they try and break free from the hellish cycle. They’ve forgotten how they even got to that point as it’s been so long

[@aaronmutch1883]

“Bethesda, I’m not mad at you, I’m just really really really disappointed in you”

[@shadowlife15]

Oblivion and morrowind do this too. It's kind of a bethesda thing. To be honest though, the moment helgen ends you can just, walk in a different direction than riverwood, nothing is keeping you from doing that.

[@zeveria7206]

Isn't the point of keeping the player's capture vague so you can come up with your own story? Isn't that necessary if you're going to roleplay? In contrast to games like Fallout 3 or 4 where your backstory is much more clear, but you have less room to make it your own. Honestly, I felt the Dragonborn offered much more room for roleplaying than the previous two titles. The Dragonborn only tells me what my character is, not who they are...or were There's plenty of different sorts of Dragonborns, but the "Hero of Kvatch" is clearly a hero. You can't even pick your basic alignment, let alone your character. And the Nerevarine is Nerevar, so any character you make is rendered invalid. You're simply Nerevar. Personally, I always got the impression they were trying to paint the Stormcloaks a more sympathetic introduction to make up for...the rest of the game.

[@chaserseven2886]

Yeah the character being a prisoner is exactly why they choose that type of start it’s so you can pretty much make whatever backstory for your character

[@AeridisArt]

In Skyrim, they tell you why you were captured, though, don't they? The Imperials catches you while you were trying to cross the border illegally, so if you wanna roleplay, you have to always consider why you were crossing illegally. Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you are just some prisoner and are not told why (as said in the vid, you can come up with any reason for your capture, whether it was false imprisonment or not). You only become Hero of Kvatch when you actually cleanse Kvatch of the Daedra, which you can decide not to do. In Morrowind, you are also just some prisoner and the game makes it vague as to whether you were always the Nerevarine or if completing the ritual is what made you the Nerevarine. The Nerevarine is simply a reincarnation of the Nerevar, so whoever your character is currently is entirely up to you. Have you ever played, or even read a synopsis, of those two games?

[@zeveria7206]

@@AeridisArt Since when do any of the provinces have border control? That's sort of one of the key points of all being apart of the same Empire. I mean hell, you cross into Morrowind (Solstheim) without any issues.

[@AeridisArt]

@@zeveria7206 I'd imagine there's still be checkpoints where you have to register yourself considering how the Imperials are and the current state of affairs (the civil war). The game clearly states that the Dragonborn was captured while they were crossing the border from Cyrodiil.

[@DrHoneySmacks]

This is a very interesting video. Skyrim is the only video game in which I have felt that I could truly role play whoever. From the opening line about the border, I always took that to mean that I was near a border. Some characters I imagine trying to flee Skyrim. Other characters I imagine trying to enter the war torn province. The ability to dedicate yourself to a skill and not be locked into a conventional "class" has always amazed me, and I have tried and failed to find another game that does it as well as Skyrim. For instance, I played a 100% restoration character, someone who took a vow of pacifism in this dark time of war, but when I went through the Dragonborn dlc, I decided to go down a dark path. I gave in to dark powers, and dedicated myself to necromancy. Since I was at such a high level, this was a grueling process. Yet, that made for more engaging role playing as I imagined my characters being frustrated with the slow progress only to double down on the dark path.... I've also played a character who decided that nearly being executed by the imperials was too close a call. I basically turned the game into the Sims, moving to Windhelm (since they hadn't tried to take my head) and working as a smith while occasionally taking up bounties for extra coin. I've been seeing a lot of Skyrim critique videos, and it seems to me that I love Skyrim largely for the reasons that others dislike it. This is a well made video (even if I disagree). I'm just dropping some Skyrim love into these comments in case someone has had a similar experience with the game as me.

[@mlmii1933]

Honestly, Im convinced that the original plan was to have the player funneled down the Stormcloak side of the civil war without an Imperial option. There are supposedly cut voice lines with Ulfric escaping Helgan with you.

[@Takarias]

I'm of half a mind that there was originally an entirely different start to the game, and Ralof's Riverwood conversation wasn't going to be attached to it. I don't have much of anything in the way of proof, so that will just have to remain a theory.

[@VarthalabauHair]

Makes sense because the presentation of the two factions is completely one sided. The Empire wants you dead for no reason and you are captured along Stormcloak rebels. Why would you logically choose to side with the Empire if you haven't played previous titles and/or aren't familiar with the lore of the Empire?

[@maileesaeya3614]

@@VarthalabauHair So, this is just a personal theory of mine, but I think it's possible that the opening sequence was setup with returning players in mind--specifically with the thought that Morrowind and Oblivion players would be inclined to side with the Empire, so this introduction was setup to incentivize them to at least consider their options rather than just defaulting to the Empire. Of course, there's a bunch of code and unused dialogue that indicates the game was significantly more "pro-Stormcloak" before release, as there were quests that ended in the deaths of Elisif and Baalgruuf, while nothing bad happens to Stormcloak jarls outside of the Civil War (the Elisif one was removed early, while the one for Baalgruuf nearly made it to release, only for the shaggy dog nature of it for pro-Empire players to be pointed out; this is why Mephala's daedric quest is so bare bones). Then again, Elisif was also initially planned as a potential marriage option, allowing the PC to potentially become High King of Skyrim by marriage, before Bethesda decided that would be too much of a headache (and I tend to agree with them on this one).

[@rise1281]

Maaan! Very great video, enjoyed it. As non-native english speaker, thank you for subtitles!

[@Yominokun1]

I mostly agree. When i make a character really intended for roleplay, i feel you really need to fight the game design instead of actually going about the world. It doesn't really feel different unless you really harshly limit what you can do. Morrowind and Oblivion did this a lot better (Morrowind more than Oblivion). Sure you had to limit yourself, but the games' quests had different ways to go about something. Stealth, careful combat, archery, speech, rushing in, all different options. If there's a locked door, there's likely a key to be around, or hints to where the key could be, or in the possession of the owner, even if you're in some dungeons. The game allowed you to focus on certain skills, and "ignore" others a lot more easily. And regarding Daggerfall, sure, certain things were timed, such as going to Breanna, and delivering some things, but once you are on the actual quest you have as much time as you want to actually complete it, iirc anyway. There may be some timed dungeon quest i'm forgetting, it's been ages since i actually played through the storyline. The DOS version was all we actually had when i played through it then. :D

[@therusty9993]

Skyrim sacrificed the weight and dedication of decisions for general accessibility. That, in itself, is why i believe its such a popular game.

[@grismatics]

i don't see skyrim as an RPG and more just as a cool fantasy game that i constantly return to because of the nostalgia, complex lore, and just great exploration aspects.

[@ceumadorgas9407]

15:42 In Arena you do start as a prisioner, but yes, you do have some established backstory before being a prisioner, unlike III, IV and V. Jagar Tharn throws you there for considering you a ally of the original emperor (I dont remember if it is exactly this though), and possibly a threat to his plan, but thanks to the ghost of Ria Silmane you understand the circunstances the empire is in and you escape the prison to thwart Jagar's plan.

[@elYisusdelaNazza]

And that's why Alternate Start exists as a mod, but it only works bc it's for a second (or more) playthrough. As compelling and consistent the opening of Skyrim might be, it's true that practically moves you to a melee build. Great video! (And now, I'm going to watch it 😅)

[@Takarias]

I used to use Live Another Life, but... well, the game railroads you onto the main quest so hard that it kinda doesn't matter :(

[@kendrajade6688]

Even with Alternate Start the dialogue still reminds you every so often that your character can be anyone you want, as long as you've never met anyone and no one's heard of you.

[@alexandersavage305]

You know what? I WILL like and subscribe for more pedantic lore corrections! Seriously that gave me a good chuckle and earned my sub, well done.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

This is why Morrowind is the best in the series. It is the only game in the series that doesn't force you through a long opening dungeon that restricts your choices and makes restarting a huge annoyance.

[@Sniperduck9944]

I truly resonate with this video, specially in the part about the Sword and Boar Kha'jit. I love clerical characters so I wanted to create an Imperial Cleric that's part of the Empire, but I thought "Why would the imperials imprison one of them?". So I installed an alt-start mod. But I wish the game was more ambiguous about what are you doing there. In Morrowind I did the same, and not only the game did let me decide my past but also it let me build my cleric better and easier.

[@acrylique2976]

"We'll make sure your remains return to Elsweyr" Oh yeah, I'm sure you will :)

[@SylviusTheMad]

My best Skyrim start was a runaway from Riften who was captured attempting to return to Skyrim to find her parents. When she escaped from Helgen, she immediately headed for Riften, never visiting Riverwood, and never collecting the Dragonstone.

[@baizuo3954]

The beginning force you to side with Stormcloaks because they don't cut people's heads off without a trial. There are no skeletons, torture tools, torturers or dead bodies in Stormcloak dungeons, so if you are playing a moral character you can't side with the Empire.

[@phantom_mserafi]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@randomblacktemplar738]

Or didn't take side and Chill with the Dawnguard

[@WhiteDragonOfLight]

The whole war starts with some racist bozo cheating in a duel, who's whole plan is to cut Skyrim off from the rest of the world. As soon as the legion gets removed the real war would begin and shatter anything Ulfric hoped to keep.

[@Xalantor]

Always find your take on the scrolls game and your approach to your videos interesting.

[@Takarias]

And there's more to come! Not sure what my next video is gonna be, but you can rest assured that it's coming!

[@CaptainBrash]

I like Skyrim, it makes a great survival sandbox if you mod it right. Always makes me want to play Morrowind though (which is the reason I'm playing Morrowind right now) I'm really hoping that once the OpenMW lua scripting thing happens someone can port Ashfall to OpenMW and I can live out my Ashlander hunter best life.

[@Steve-ln3kl]

I get what you mean. With mods, Skyrim sometimes feels like a high-level game engine you're building your own experience in.

[@mightyn8]

I've been loving all your videos, and I always look forward to hearing more of your thoughts especially on RPGs. Thank you for sharing them with us!

[@Takarias]

I'm so glad people are enjoying them! Expect more to come :)

[@strongarm852]

I have a friend who for years used to tell me Skyrim Sucked, and then I finally asked him what happened when he played the game. So what he did is he took Ralof's advice about splitting up and then he made his way directly to Windhelm and joined the Storm Cloaks and did the Civil War questline. And then he got to the end of the Civil War and never thought that he had beaten the game without ever fighting a dragon, or finding or starting any of the other faction questlines. I talked him into starting a new playthru and this time follow the guy he goes with the Riverwood and he found the main quest right away and then ran into all the faction quests along the way, his opinion took a complete 180 after that. The thing about main quest is that if you follow you will meet someone who can show you how to start each one of the faction quest lines along the way. And joining the College of Winterhold is pretty much a hard requirement for completing the main quest.

[@demomanchaos]

No he didnt. You literally cannot do the Whiterun siege without the first dragon fight.

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

@@demomanchaos yeah that guy 100% lied lmao

[@spudnikca8959]

Just discovered you. SUBSCRIBED. Beautiful visuals. Love your narration style.

[@BasicWorldbuilder]

I don't normally engage with engagement pulls. But like and subscribe for more pedantic lore corrections took me out 😂

[@MarkusManon]

Your opening statements at 3:40-ish brought a tear to my eye --- I don't know if anybody has put it in words and intonations so true to my own heart and dreams. Thank you

[@davidkaziska6192]

I had assumed the player character and Stormcloaks were traveling from Helgen from Fort Neugrad, where they were all imprisoned. That seems to be the route they're taking to Helgen and it's not implausible that Stormcloaks captured in Darkwater Cross would be held there. Also, crossing the border is illegal in itself and that's why the player character is imprisoned. Furthermore, the game doesn't 'force you down the dragonborn path' as you say, since you can avoid fight dragons altogether if you want to. T

[@Pangora2]

Try to finish the civil war quest without fighting your first dragon.

[@Bram06]

Clicked for the commentary, subbed for the humor

[@Takarias]

Needed this comment today :)

[@Bram06]

@@Takarias Just a tip: I think you would be better off without starting your video with 5-10 minutes of pre-explanation, for example defining things. It's a little boring. What you can do instead that much more interesting is just start talking about the subject and then interupt to define things when neccesary. This actually (unintuitively) creates a better flow. Also, highly encourage you to side-track a lot. You're very good at inserting semi-related interesting things. Reminds me of how vsauce tricks you into learning random crap

[@Takarias]

@@Bram06 And thank you again for the feedback! I'm always working to improve with each video :)

[@JoelCMcClure]

I’m a lurker by trade and I just have to say, I am so glad I found your channel! Keep up this good work. I look forward to your thoughts on Oblivion’s intro and maybe one for Starfield?! Regardless, you have earned a permasubscriber! Us Morrowboomers have to look out for each other 😉

[@Takarias]

Thank you for the support! Us olds gotta teach the younguns what makes games great!

[@JoelCMcClure]

@@TakariasYou are doing the Lord Talos’ work!

[@goatslayer3160]

You're a lurker? I didn't know Apocropha had wifi, I guess Hermaeus Mora really is the prince of knowledge. 😂

[@notgolo]

Just binged your last 4 TES videos. Please make more. I need second monitor content. thanks :D

[@Takarias]

That's the plan! Thanks for watching

[@reptilejesus829]

2:27 Hi, German speaker here. Just fyi, you did a decent job pronouncing that (: Also, yay, a new upload

[@Takarias]

Oh, good. I definitely didn't match my reference, but... I'll happily accept recognizable lol

[@tadoriaselan3268]

Funny enough when my companion said we should split up I immediately booked it into the woods and never found out what the main quest was.

[@Cynidecia]

Skyrim is an action adventure game, not an RPG.

[@Takarias]

Sadly, you're not wrong... Some day, I'll tackle that claim head-on in a video.

[@NealBones]

Fantastic video. Summed up quite a few of my own thoughts. I also wanted to say that seeing a 10 year old video listed on your channel sincerely gave me hope and inspired me. I've bounced the idea around in my head forever of making videos, but I also used to have a very "this has to be successful or it's a waste of time" type of mindset drilled into me, and making videos like this one should be done simply out of wanting to do it, and when I want to do it at that. Definitely subbing, and thank you again 🫶 I know it may seem small but that was a boost of motivation I needed

[@Takarias]

Go do it. For real. I stagnated and hesitated for years as well. My first Morrowind video was the product of me finally saying, "You know what? I don't care. I'm going to ramble about something, clean that up into a script, record it with decent audio quality, slap some gameplay under it, and just put it out there." I didn't focus on fancy editing (just on making it look clean and not like, janky), I didn't worry about how it would be received... I just put my authentic, nerdy, pedantic, on-the-spectrum self out there because I wanted to. So, go do it. Forget about trying to hit success right from the word go and just put content you're proud of into the world. There is, literally, nothing you can lose. I'm not saying you'll strike gold doing it, but if you're not doing it for the artistic expression of it... you won't enjoy doing it, and viewers can smell that from a mile away. Good luck, have fun, and thanks for the sub. :)

[@mbatistas]

"what's still the newest Elder Scrolls game nearly after its release" Elder Scrolls Online (2014): Am I a joke to you?

[@Takarias]

Kind of! It's very much a spin-off doing its own thing. I like it well enough, but it's certainly not what I think of when someone says 'Elder Scrolls'

[@MoonMoverGaming]

If we're counting that, we may as well count Elder Scrolls Legends (2017), Elder Scrolls Blades (2020), and Elder Scrolls Castles (2024). And maybe even Bethesda Pinball (2017).

[@LeeKolb]

So to summarize. Skyrim has a slightly longer intro before letting you do whatever you want. And you don't like being forced to be the dragonborn. Of course in Morrowind there's very little choice to not be the prophesied champion. At least not much less than Skyrim.

[@motherreaper7287]

I really love sitting down to a Skyrim vid, so I'm glad you made this, and you've pointed out things I have always merely glazed over, as I often search for meaning where there is none in these games. The fact that we're all rounded up in Darkwater crossing is incredibly interesting, as I believe this is where the red mist ore is found, that mine is also speculated to be connected to Redwater Den. I don't know about you.. But I think it'd be incredibly interesting if the player was dug out of that mine.

[@fightingfortruth9806]

I recommend everyone play the Gothic series with all of the latest patches and mods (there are guides you can follow). I consider these games the "anti" Elder Scrolls. They do everything you WISH TES did. They have real player choice and real impact on the world. Gothic 3 is great because you can join a faction and literally wipe out other factions and entire quest lines. It is really fun.

[@Takarias]

I'll have to look into these games. I didn't have a PC to play games on until 2017, so a lot of these classics that didn't make it to console were never accessible to me while they were relevant in the broader gaming sphere

[@jamesmoyon3372]

I enjoyed your video. I find that the more I play Skyrim, the more it feels like the world is passive, full of content ready for me to consume, rather than a world that reacts to my choices. In fact, it feels like very few choices are even meaningful. It would be great if NPCs had a relationship meter like in Sims, where your favourite blacksmith would be happy to see you or the merchant you sell to but never buy anything from makes a sarcastic remark like "You know I sell things too, right?".

[@Takarias]

This is hilarious to me because you are describing Disposition, a feature that literally exists in Morrowind (and Oblivion, but it has a terrible implementation there).

[@enfynet]

The biggest handcuff to characters in Skyrim are the dragonborn parts. Many characters you can create make no sense to be dragonborn. That should be limited to certain character play styles and not just anyone who starts a game of Skyrim.

[@Joshua_Shadow_Manriguez]

My biggest issue with the opening is character creation. The character I play as is a world hopping Elemental created for my own world, but due to the world hopping thing, they can basically exist anywhere. I can solve the capture thing as an unfortunate opening of a interdimensional portal, and have the backstory of actually meeting Akatosh in a dreamscape where my character is given the power of the Dragonborn, even if he isnt aware of it, thinking it was a bizarre dream. But yhen we get to character creation, where by character is a 7'0" tall Mexican Irishman with tan skin, glowing red irises, black hair that parts from above his left eye, and most if it covering the right side of his face, dressed in a red lined and trimmed black ankle length hooded longcoat. Even ignoring the coat because if game asset limitations, trying to replicate the face, eyes, hair, and height is basically impossible. I can explain getting captured as just seeing how things pan out and just the look of bewilderment of getting his head cut off and it growing back. But character creation makes it difficult to get the character look right. I also think some of the cut dialog does a lot to make the Imperals less sympathetic. Like theres cut dialog where one of yhe Thalmor gets mad at Tullius for actually succeeding at capturing Ulfric, even though Tullius was literally brought in to bring the war to an end, hence his scirched Earth approach that we get caught in the crossfire of.

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

Has anyone ever noticed that during the opening, just after you've made your character, when the dragon is not seen but is heard. The headsman seems to be deaf? 🤔😲 😅🤣😂

[@leXie1337_chan]

Hey, that leather hood is heavy and he's fretting about messing up the executions in front of his crush (the Imperial captain).

[@chaincat33]

For your Khajiit character, I can think of a few explanations for why your character got captured solo. For a more heroic path, maybe you noticed the ambush ahead of time and rushed forward to spring it, so your charge wouldn't be caught. For a more villainous path, maybe your group was attacked by bandits and you slunk away. For a more neutral path, maybe you just got momentarily distracted at the wrong place at the wrong time, and your group left you behind. You didn't get to explain anything because an imperial mace soon met the back of your head, instant KO

[@dooperdooper6679]

Could even be an accident. Those mountains are treacherous and loose footing nearly took your life. You saw people looking for help and took that hit from an Imperial.

[@Sheogorath3477]

15:44 uh oh, akshually☝ no. There's a "History" button in your character's menu, which contains your history generated on which skills and prohibitions you've choose or which answers you had gave during character creation mini-game. 17:05 necrophilia, Hero of Quatch is inprisoned for necrophilia, but i'd suggest what that line was invented by devs more for a joke purpose.

[@Takarias]

I always forget the history button is there at all! Interesting that some of the generated backgrounds contradict the intro FMV a little

[@Sheogorath3477]

@@Takarias Last time i checked, my character has appear to be a hereditary member of blades, who's family was a close friends with Emperor Uriel Septim himself.

[@Takarias]

I loaded up the charas I showed in this video, and he was a thief that ended up saving the emperor from an assassin during a parade.

[@Sheogorath3477]

@@Takarias Now i wonder how many answer combinations\skill combinations is in the game to make a different histories

[@mrosskne]

If you actually want to roleplay, get daggerfall.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

I would argue in morrowind that you're the chosen one because you complete a certain set of objectives and criteria & that anyone could have been the nevarine if they matched the criteria.

[@Takarias]

I also really like the interpretation that the player becomes Nerevarine through their actions, though surely one needs to be predisposed to being able to do so

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@Takarias I mean yeah, you need to be both strong enough, smart enough & have the motivation to need or want to fufill the prophecy. We see a ton of people who failed in the game.

[@mlmii1933]

Something to remember is that "Mantling" retroactively changes the past, so the moment you fulfill the prophecy and Mantle the Neverine the universe rewrites itself, so you were ALWAYS the Neverine. So you were born the Neverine because the future you managed to become the Neverine.

[@sufficient4834]

Dagoth Ur clearly recognizes the player as Neravar

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@sufficient4834 Yes, because you made it here, because you likely fulfilled the prophecy to get here.

[@eclipseslayer98]

Dragon Born: Immortal, God, King, Warrior, Mage, Assassin, who can, using arcane mysteries, kill an ancient dragon in one hit with a wooden toy sword, and who is immune to all forms of disease, poison, damage, and exhaustion with infinite magic. Same Dragon Born: Takes a little dart to the neck though FULL Deadric plate armor? How does that work? And gets knocked out from the poison on said dart.... despite being immune to all poisons, diseases, toxins, and damage or any kind........ Makes sense.... Karliah

[@borerofhope]

I've played through the Skyrim Intro so many times and not one single time have I ever sided with the faction that *wanted to cut off my head* a minute ago. What were the writers thinking?

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

Me: This time I'll do some hardcore roleplaying in Skyrim! Also Me, the second combat while roleplaying gets difficult: Then again, there's nothing wrong with another Stealth Archer run!

[@Takarias]

I unironically enjoy Skyrim stealth archers lol Yeah, it's hyper easy mode, but it's still satisfying to clear rooms without being noticed by the braindead AI

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

@Takarias *THUNK* "Must have been the w-" *THUNK*

[@HypercomboProduction]

Taking a page or 2 out of my DnD campaigns, my character just showed up. That's it, that's all the backstory we need. The reason for this is that I can justify my lack of knowledge of the series or planning on my character's in-depth role play. For example, the ambush gave my Orc ammesia, so he is still learning about himself as the game continues. My High Elf, Pancake, is a schoaler who loves to collect books but can't read. So, in her case, she was captured on their way to Helgen. Ralof just thought she was trying to cross the border, but in actuality, she legitimately thought she was in Solitude and was confused why the Blue Palace wasn't there (she can't even read a map). Or if it's my channel mascot on my alternate account (I have yet to show her), Shenron sent her to Skyrim by accident.

[@Takarias]

An illiterate book collector! That's definitely a character premise I haven't heard before!

[@HypercomboProduction]

@Takarias the best part about it is that the moment you release that almost 50 or 90% of Skyrim involves some sort of book or letter the Dovakiin needs to read at least once. For example, you need to read a book to learn about Red Eagle or start the Athrium Forge quest. Or how Delphine leaves a letter for you when you collect the horn. Because of this, I always have at least one follower with Pancake at all times, in case she needs to read something. Otherwise, everything is just out of instinct or coincidence.

[@Steve-ln3kl]

That's why I find it easier to not play as a nord. The whole "I'm a foreign traveller, so I don't know your map or your legends"

[@thoughtfuldoomguy]

Hey, good video! Love Skyrim too, but always open to people's takes on negative aspects of it, even if I may no agree. Well crafted video and good delivery! Looking forward to more. Subscribed!

[@Takarias]

Thanks for the sub! I agree, always happy to have a respectful debate with alternate takes :)

[@Takarias]

Also, living up to the username. I love it. lol

[@thoughtfuldoomguy]

@ 😂🙏

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

Ever since the release of Boulder's gate 3 and starfield people have realized that Bethesda games are not great.

[@Takarias]

Some of us knew what was happening when Oblivion released.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

23:10 weird to see a version of the Skyrim intro where a conventional dragon lands on the tower, rather than Thomas the Tank Engine or Macho Man Randy Savage

[@Takarias]

I did mention I go light on the mods, right? lol

[@darrennew8211]

The first time I played, he said "We should split up" and I took off. I fought giants and bandits and witches before I found riverwood. I think I was level 10 or so before I found the guardian stones. It was glorious. The idea that you're railroaded into anything seems laughable. Yes, you can't be an existing soldier already fighting, but you can be anything else you want.

[@mangomayhem609]

You cant tho. I like to roleplay as a barbarian, or an outlaw, a dickhead, a total failure & a loser etc. Just a few weeks ago (its been years since i last played skyrim) i was playing on console with no access to mods, made an orc warrior thinking ima be a complete menace to society, started to kill & loot entire of riverwood & got pissed off by delphine being on godmode getting up in an attosecond & clapping me out not letting me loot in peace. The forced power fantasy dragonborn bs was so cringe i had to quit & go back to daggerfall

[@zubbworks]

My first playthrough I took over the fort next to windhelm, and was a bandit until like the level 20s or so. Was kinda cool.

[@masterdynamo6457]

Allow me to posit a possible explanation for the locations: They WERE trying to cross into Skyrim from the east (maybe after meeting with an outside entity in hopes of support). The PC was knocked out. You were shuffled (collectively) towards the Pale Pass to be sent to Cyrodiil (as the leader of the Stormcloaks ought to face the Emperor's justice, and you and Lokir got caught up in the mess) but that's when the Pale Pass was closed off (or thereabouts), perhaps even by Alduin. As such you're redirected north to Helgen. It requires some effort, but it is explainable.

[@insylem]

I have played Arena. I got my ass kicked

[@Takarias]

Old-school CRPGs were pretty brutal for the unprepared!

[@zubbworks]

Bruh when does this tutorial end? The tut dungeon was harder than anything in skyrim or oblivion.

[@jahinxalmothsunsmile4374]

Great definitions: mechanical vs. narrative roleplay. Regarding the border crossing, Darkwater Crossing, and the time-lapse, the narrative should be clearer, but I would say that Ulfric's forces were ambushed at Darkwater Crossing two days ago, but Ulfric and his soldiers in the carts escaped that battle and fled for the border. The pass was blocked, and their pursuers caught them and dragged them back to Helgen. As far as I know, that makes sense of it and is not contradicted elsewhere, and may, in fact, be what the writer meant.

[@debbiegilmour6171]

I can't understand playing Skyrim without Ordinator at the very least anymore 😭

[@Takarias]

That's an interesting overhaul. I will keep that in mind for if I ever for for a super heavily modded playthrough!

[@cautiousplutoe3853]

Ordinator? Nah, vokriinator is the way!

[@rrudeljr]

Maybe I'm nuts, but I played Morrowind first, but like Skyrim best.