How tax brackets actually work

[@Vox]

We've made a follow-up to this video, that examines the reasoning and debate around a 70% marginal tax rate: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIi1gGCDaZyYebs

[@TheNobleWarriorr]

Why did you add a political jab to the republicans at the end without adding the 4% tax bump that Bernie wants. Most people I would assume fall under 22% bracket and currently pay 22% on that. Bernie would bump it to 26%

[@TheNobleWarriorr]

Not to mention taxing people who make the most money 70% instead of 37% would make them want to reduce costs (aka jobs). Cutting their taxes while still keeping them higher than the average rates still promotes growth.

[@willoughbykrenzteinburg]

@@TheNobleWarriorr Because this is Vox.

[@jarjarbinks4744]

Jake M The 4% increase is for Medicare for all, so you likely save money because the 4% increase isn’t as expensive as private insurance with premium costs and add on costs

[@braxtonhicks4179]

@@jarjarbinks4744 you are being lied to

[@WAYAWAYWithAsh]

This is legit the first time I understood tax brackets... I also never assumed I knew how they worked, simply that I had no idea how they worked.

[@adamnagy1832]

I hope you never voted in your life then. I think it's more responsible of a person not to vote if he doesn't understand even the basics such as tax brackets.

[@Swagalious689]

@@adamnagy1832 yep.

[@mrcarrot455]

Yea

[@tronophono913]

But now he knows. And knowing is half the batlle.

[@amir-mahdikamali1186]

There's a mathematical error in the visualizsation. They've multiplied the income with percents instead of a decimetrical numbers.

[@voscra]

Just to show you all the math clearly. The person who makes 84,000 USD Pays 11,258 USD So 13.4% of his income is his effective tax rate. If he was paying 22% of his income he would have to pay 18,480 USD

[@aeon9311]

A person who makes 200 million a year would be paying 70% on the upper 190 million dollars, which completely dwarfs the lower tax brackets. In practice, it’s almost 70%. The first 10 million can be ignored to simplify the math, as they are utterly irrelevant to someone who makes 9 figures. That’s why politicians say 70%. Everyone knows how tax brackets work. It’s just a simplification.

[@marekbottrill8070]

Aeon Yeah if you're a multi-millionare. So they're not being genuine when adressing the general population

[@iruns1246]

@Aeon, the tweet shown at the end of the video clearly disproves your claim. And I've seen right wing articles clearly doing the math incorrectly. And of course your math really works if the person makes far beyond the last tax bracket anyway. If you're talking about someone making 20 mills (A LOT more people than ones making 200 mills) your simplification is just horribly wrong.

[@CosmicHippopotamus]

Aeon You're forgetting about deductions. All multi-millionaires are taking itemized deductions to the point where very few ever get taxed with a high effective rate. Many people in that range paid the AMT (alternative minimum tax) which was less than 30%. The 2017 tax law vastly reduced the number of people the AMT captures which effectively means there are billionaires that don't even pay 30% in taxes because of all the loopholes they are taking advantage of.

[@stanj85]

@@aeon9311 LOL! Literally everything about current right wing politics proves that people, in fact, don't have any idea how tax policy works.

[@AbbreviatedReviews]

This is one of those things everyone should know, but isn't taught in school for some reason.

[@LaFonteCheVi]

@@AnHeC ". How can anyone NOT read up on taxes?!" For most people, there is no reason to, nor does it even occur to them. Quite frankly, there has never once been a point in my life where I felt the need to research this in detail. Taxes are broken down on all tax forms and pay stubs. There really isn't a reason to look past that for most people. Plus it isn't a issue of "not knowing" for most people but rather being misinformed. Most people think they understand tax brackets, when in reality they don't. When someone thinks they understand something, they rarely peruse researching it. For someone who likes to pretend they are an intellectual, you sure are naive and ignorant.

[@ryanminaker157]

How would someone know to look for something that they did not know existed may I ask

[@ryanminaker157]

haha well put lfront

[@joseguzman5875]

@#BLINK JJRL it should be taught in school, or at least offered. maybe a simple basic life skills class.

[@BBCjer]

@@AnHeC You're a headass

[@coolbrotherf127]

Waaiit, you're saying that people debate about things that they don't understand at all? I'm pretty sure that never happens.

[@andrewbarone6575]

Neverrr lol who would do such a thing

[@Denverian]

Welcome to America!

[@altrag]

Especially on the internet!

[@brokkrep]

Yes they do understand it... At least they say so

[@llamaliammm]

Ur forgetting its america. The politicians there r just out of this world.

[@ObjSolid]

Taxpayer: "Nice tax bracket system!" Lady liberty: "Thanks! It has pockets"

[@ShaudaySmith]

LOL! Well played sir.

[@4nna5]

this is a shamefully under-liked comment

[@calvinhoward3808]

Can someone explain it?

[@4nna5]

@@calvinhoward3808 women's clothes often don't have pockets, or have fake pockets or some other bullshit, so we often take pride in any pocket-y clothing - OP related the tax pocket system spoken about in the video to this clothing problem. Hope that makes sense c:

[@nnzxzyy]

Calvin Howard r/woooosh

[@jwc3104]

This "Tax Bracket" system is how 99% of the developed coutries use. Yet, too many people don't understand this basic concept. We need to teach this kinda stuff in Elementary School Math class.

[@alonsovalencia3362]

We know how taxes work, also US has low taxes compared to Europe countries and there are other taxes not taken into consuderstiobs, they also don't talk about the effects of high taxes in the economy, specially for corporations

[@javadose317]

Why do we need to know they are taking it out of our checks anyway

[@tpohne1965]

​@Flame Not sure if Germany is a developed country, but we don't have such tax brackets. If you are in the highest tax class, ALL of your income is taxed at 42%. And if you aren't married and have no kids that tax class starts at roughly 60.000 $ per year. Plus, we have a 7% sales tax on groceries and a 19% sales tax on everything else. And with every gallon of gas, almost 50% of the price is taxes and fees. And, and, and...just saying.

[@grassytramtracks]

​@@javadose317 it is relevant - people can misrepresent the tax brackets to make an idea look bad, such as saying a new tax policy will cause a pay rise to cost you, when it never can. Tax is a very important issue and different people have very different ideas about it

[@PFGFrankly]

we need a class in high school for this stuff, basic living class, its mandatory before graduating

[@clard52]

The number of people who insist that they got pushed into the next tax bracket and actually lost money from a raise/bonus somehow is astonishing. And they always insist they're right about how taxes work.

[@ConradOPrice]

I know exactly what you mean, it's mad. I've heard of someone who refused a raise thinking it would push them into the next bracket and overall they would actually lose money so they refused it.

[@laloajuria4678]

ppl are dumb and math is hard.

[@amp7980]

I actually heard this a million times from my dad growing up. So it wasn't until i was an adult that i realized that's not how it works.

[@formsMostBeautiful]

Raises come with more responsibility. It's not as simple as leaving free money on the table. Accepting more responsibility for a much lower raise due to the tax bracket is unquestionably an awful situation.

[@thefrostychemist]

As part of a family with many entrepreneurs and business owners, this topic often comes up. Vox is technically correct about how it works, but let me put it this way: You own a business. It's not nearly this simple (in fact, if I weren't simplifying it, the results would be even more distinct), but say you pay $100 per unit of any factor of production (labour, equipment, resources). Now suppose there are tax brackets at less than or equal to $3000 for 20%, and greater than $3000 for 40%. Bear in mind this is extremely simplified, hypothetical, and obviously exaggerated so that the chart doesn't run all the way across a few dozen rows. For every $150 dollars you earn, you need to use one $100 unit, leading to $50 net profit. Now, watch this: I: W/out Tax: Tax: O: Net: $1600. $2400. $480. $1920 $320 $1700. $2550. $510. $2040 $340 $1800. $2700. $540. $2160 $360 $1900. $2850. $570. $2280 $380 $2000. $3000. $600. $2400 $400 $2100. $3150. $660. $2490 $390 $2200. $3300. $720. $2580 $380 See how after it hits the bracket, the net gain, a lot of which goes towards growing the business to increase the Input (I), decreases, or at least doesn't increase as much. Yes, this is clearly exaggerated, but in real life, the effects are the same, albeit a lot broader, so the changes are harder to see at a glance (and I'm lazy and didn't want to do dozens of rows of calculations just to not even be read). Bear in mind that you definitely want a higher Input, because that means a few things: A. Workers are paid more B. More workers are employed C. More is being bought from other companies to allow those companies to increase their own Input. Hopefully this could help. :)

[@HTPCYMC]

That’s how tax brackets work.

[@deznal227]

Good meme.

[@derpmcgerp8062]

Politician's policy proposals: *Lvl 1 Crook* Vox 2 and a half minute video: *Lvl 35 boss*

[@abrahamarango843]

But I have a plastic computer and you only know how to properly clean a metal computer

[@MrMisjudge]

I love that they appreciated the meme

[@SeazBreeze]

REALLY?

[@lakeedwarddaily2528]

Explaining that didn't seem very taxing at all.

[@Joesolo13]

Very punny

[@jayquanbable]

A pocket full of information

[@benjo_5]

I see what you did there

[@evaristegalois6282]

What we learned from this video: *Tax brackets are actually tax pockets*

[@Weatherboy1102]

Evariste Galois we need to raise the top marginal tax pocket

[@utkarsh4386]

​@@Weatherboy1102 what percentage of their income do you think the people in the top 1 percent should pay. Not Marginal, effective.

[@psinformer1]

I thought they were gonna say something new about a loophole or something, because as is it’s not complicated really, your money is taxed in sections, each a specific amount, once you go over the rest is taxed in the next section and rinse and repeat until all your income is taxed it’s not that complex

[@jakehix8132]

@@utkarsh4386 Modifying the marginal tax rate is what drives the effective tax rate, ehh. With the current tax code, I'd say adding 50% for overages following the current cap 37% after $510,300 is a good start (a few bucks after a citizen's millionth buck was taxed at normal rates, the next millions earned take a 50% hit vs the current 37%). This alone could double the standard deduction and put 10-20 thousand dollars back in the pockets of people who need it every year... at an unnoticed, welcomed by many affected, cost on people who make, not just one million dollars a year, but multiple millions.

[@utkarsh4386]

@@jakehix8132 what if I told you that in many states, if you are in the top 1 percent, you already pay over 50 percent of your income in taxes when including state, sales, property and miscellaneous taxes.

[@JustinY.]

Political comment

[@TheInselaffen]

I agree, but I'm foreign, so don't count.

[@definitelyderek5815]

Oppositional reply!!!

[@natsumi1120]

Go away

[@OF01975]

People who upvote this dudes shitposts are autists

[@queenelizabethi5868]

God damnit Justin. I'm at work but I'm still not safe from the ninja

[@mandeepsivia2847]

You should probably also include that this is earned income tax and is not the same as capital gains tax or corporate tax. Some people dont seem to understand that either.

[@howsyamomma2673]

Mandeep sivia If I’m not mistaken capital gains tax works in a similar manner to this

[@mandeepsivia2847]

@@howsyamomma2673 Ya if the asset was held for less than one year it will be counted as ordinary income and be taxed at the same tax brackets as this video. If the asset is held for more than a year it is taxed on different brackets, the highest one being at 20% for anything over, i think, $425 000.

[@HedelTorres]

Funny.. In Canada, you hear people complain that small business gets over taxed. That's wrong.. Tax on business is much lower than personal income.. And a small business can claim internet costs, some lunches, clothes, car. While the full time employee can't normally claim any of that. It's harder on the middle, full time, working class... I have a few friends who own businesses and brag how little tax they pay. Even though it is harder on the FT working class, which I'm a member of, I'm not complaining about taxes.. It's the price we pay for a society.. I am just not one of the defenders of the rich, everytime the government talks about increasing taxes.. I say go for it..

[@sunni-junestephan4229]

@@HedelTorres yes and no. Small business owners get a few additional tax write offs but it doesn't make up for the fact that owners have to pay their own CPP, don't get EI, don't get health and dental insurance, don't get matched RRSPs or a pension, as well as a few other benefits that employees normally get. They have to pay for those things out of their own pocket or from their business earnings which reduces what they can take home. When added up small business owners are usually at a disadvantage compared to employees. Unless of course they go to a shady accountant who writes off things they know they shouldn't be. But then that's tax fraud, and you can end up in jail. Those small business owners bragging about how little tax they pay, those are either people who actually made very little money, or are at risk of landing themselves in jail.

[@lincolnduke]

@@HedelTorres Yeah, they get to write off costs for the business. The internet and car costs have to be used for the business. You dont just get a tax free car as a business owner?

[@carbonarcade1233]

In the debate around AOC's 70% top tax rate you hear loads of people not understanding this concept, even on the news, which confuses me as a British person. the way tax brackets work is common knowledge in the uk and we get taught about it in school

[@HenryJuliao]

I was taught this in school as well here in the states. It's just that some of us don't pay attention. I'm sure that the UK has bad students too.

[@marlo8528]

It's not widely taught in grade schools in the US. I learned about it because I took an accounting elective in high school.

[@therealnoodles7638]

We learned about taxes to in highschool. In mathematics. In australia

[@hunterhenryk]

When tax prep was a manual form-heavy chore, I think more people, who did their own taxes, understood it. Nowadays, it's all software running Q&A wizards, even if you don't hire it out. The software does all the deductions and calculations. Even if you hire out, the tax preparers are running the same or similar software.

[@hunterhenryk]

You say they are greedy, but Americans are the most generous people on the planet. That's a fact. Look it up.

[@Wrest2165]

I had zero idea this is how taxes worked.

[@jhuerd]

Aaron Glicco you still have zero idea, because Vox has zero idea. Vox, like AOC, assume that Rich people just shut up and sit down like the rest of us. When you make that kind of money... and a pretty congressional nobody informs you that we are coming for your money, you just simply move. They won’t be here long enough for the government to actually collect the money, leaving the rest of us regular people paying for this impossible green proposal. The existing tax rates on the rich are currently at tolerable levels.

[@Wrest2165]

@@jhuerd i understand it very well now, and no, you dont simply move, revoke your citizenship, job, status, and property. You dont just randomly trade nations dude. Plus any work you do in that country is STILL taxed by that country. I didnt know taxes were incremental instead of percentage based, but your statement represents one of even more ignorance. Taxing excessively rich people MORE at HIGHER RATES is not only fair, but morally right, financially right, and just makes common sense. Why do you care . I can guarantee with near certainty that you do not make more than 10 million dollars, more likely either a shill, or just plain dont understand how economics work

[@jhuerd]

👌 You’re, right.....I have no idea what I’m saying. Perhaps, think of the French as an example of one possible reaction to exorbitant tax hikes. The former French seem to think otherwise by their actions. They don’t like Smashed Thumbs either. money.cnn.com/2016/04/01/news/millionaires-fleeing-france/index.html

[@utubestud]

@@jhuerd who cares if the rich move. Not like they were paying taxes to start with..

[@starmkd18]

@@jhuerd other countries have higher marginal tax rates than here The rich are welcome to leave any day lol There is exit tax for denouncing citizenship The top 1% don't pay taxes anyway and hoard their money in tax haven islands

[@FredMason3]

I taught this to my students today in class. I'm a high school Algebra teacher.

[@someinternetguy1065]

Good on you for teaching them this

[@joesmith-dm9pg]

aren't you not allowed to do that as a teacher though?

[@rickiex]

Geee thanks vox.... I could used this video like 10 years ago when I started to make money lol, but seriously, thanks, those visuals are on point

[@rsync9490]

Lol I learned this ten years ago for bookkeeping in high school......

[@sean640]

@@notthestatusquo7683 children SHOULD know these things HELL YEAH

[@raquetdude]

Were there no books or internet articles about that back then???

[@estephanyrios7700]

@@ShaunDreclin 👏👏👏👏👏

[@shiveshpoddar4506]

When your animation maker went on a holdiay

[@sidolanters1394]

i think they were going for fast over stylish with this one as it was an unscheduled appendix to the other video

[@Mittn]

Shivesh Poddar There’s a word for that, it’s animator.

[@sidolanters1394]

@@Mittn lol

[@poppyorangeflower]

@@Mittn HAHAHAHAHA. For some reason I found that HILARIOUS.

[@Ganymede1001]

It had to be simplified, so even middle school kids can decifer it

[@JakeBroe]

This video should be required viewing before anyone is allowed to complain about their taxes on social media...

[@MultiCombo1]

You tell me that grown adults don't understand tax brackets?

[@adamtak3128]

Sadly yes. It doesn't help that in America politics is religion.

[@cjxgraphics]

Yes. And we have grown adults that have never pumped their own gas too.

[@mojominecraftmike]

Voted and elected house members don't understand tax brackets ....

[@Hi-res64]

Not people who don't pay taxes

[@Hi-res64]

@@mojominecraftmike like Alexandria Cortez

[@gshak33]

Very informative video. Raising the tax rates for the upper brackets doesn’t seem as bad now that I understand it more.

[@TheBlobik]

Assuming it will not cause offshoring of income, then indeed you may benefit from that. However, if you overtax the richest, then they will move their incomes outside of the country, and from your perspective they will be taxed way below what they were before. This is a very tricky thing, trying to find a sweet spot on the Laffer curve.

[@HoboHunterRik]

It's actually a really bad idea to tax the richest more. Just make a flat income tax rate so they can't abuse it and no one gets an unfair deal. If you want to live in the United States we need X% of your income.

[@callowaymotorcompany]

Hobo Hunter Rik No it isn’t, and you can’t post a shred of proof that it is. The tax rate on the rich is lower than it was after the Great Depression and the economy is worse.

[@nicholasvsjesse]

Hobo Hunter Rik No, fix the system so that no one can abuse it. Why we allow companies to offshore funds is beyond me, tell them they can either pay taxes or get out.

[@bhaskarasuneil]

callowaymotorcompany don’t forget the income inequality back then too. Income inequality today is far better than it was at the end of the Great Depression. So taxing the top 1% today is a lot different that what it would have been back then.

[@trevorthompson2018]

You hear people all the time say they don’t want a raise because it will put them in the next tax bracket. This is a huge problem and good to know for the future. Everyone should know this

[@DeffecX]

Mind blown. Years of confusion gone in a couple minutes. 😅

[@DeffecX]

@@AnHeC Who knows? Maybe some of us have Alfreds who do those for us, or maybe some of us didn't even finish High School! Or maybe I was one of the very, very few students who didn't pay attention to the very exciting tax class... Or even better maybe I am not from the U.S.A and taxes work differently? 🤔. Maybe you should ask the video creators why they wasted time making this video as it is expected that everyone understands taxes.

[@AnHeC]

@@DeffecX If you are literate there are no excuses. Information is widely available. Not knowing is strictly your choice. You can google or even go to a library (even homless have smartphones, but let's pretend you don't, just for fun). 'Years of confusion' means it was on your mind and you were too passive/lazy to chek or even just ask someone. Country you are from means nothing.

[@MicahRion]

Dariel Marte Awesome! Same here!

[@Jenaeworld]

@dariel Same!!!!! 😅

[@princekatana8792]

@@AnHeC Lol, I fit right past your no excuses excuse. When I was a kid I wasn't allowed on the internet nor could I just drive over to the library on my own since well I was a child and while yes I could have looked for books in the library myself when I was taken there but let's be real, who does that. All I did was ask my dad about it and unfortunately he doesn't seem to have understood the concept of tax brackets so I was incorrectly informed until this video.

[@ONeill01]

There are misformed people across the pond in the UK too. Had to correct my mum who had grown up believing that it was better being a lower tax bracket because she thought it taxed the total income over a threshold, she told my siblings this and it would have negatively hurt their careers if I had not found out.

[@JaredOwen]

Awesome video - thank you!

[@GG-hi5if]

For US viewers wanting a comparison to the United Kingdom (a 'halfway' between European high taxes e.g. Denmark which is often referred to in the US media as a paradise). The majority of people have 2 major forms of taxation on their gross (total) salary; Income Tax and National Insurance (NI pays for our healthcare - free at the point of use). UK Example of £52,000 (approx. $67,000) Income Tax in the UK (for FY 19/20) Everyone has a tax free 'pocket' of £12,500 ($16,000) All income hereafter from £12,501 - £50,000 (All income from $16,001 to $64,300 ) is taxed at 20% Income from £50,001 - £149,999 (All income from $64,300 to $193,000) is taxed at 40% Any income above £150,000 ($193,000) is taxed at 45% So; £12,500 ($16,000) tax free 20% on £37,500 ( £7,500 / $ 9660) 40% on £2,000 (£ 800 / $1030) So; on a salary of $67,000 USD (using UK Income Tax) you'd pay $10,690 in Income Tax. And then after NI (National Insurance) someone earning a gross salary of £52,000 / $67,000 USD would pay an extra £5,004 / $6450 in NI for healthcare. Overall; You would pay $17,140 (£13,304) in income taxes/NI - an effective tax rate of 25.6% - but the major caveat is that you have all healthcare paid for.

[@robertyoung5785]

The US has a tax free pocket as well. Even kids without a personal exemption that make around $3k end up paying no taxes, only the standard Social Security (around $200)

[@stevewright9195]

Good job

[@TriplBBB2023]

beautiful example. Thanks for putting in the effort :)

[@rjfaber1991]

Those are some pretty low tax rates, I have to say. I'm not comparing it to Denmark (can't say I'm familiar with their tax rates), but here in the Netherlands, it's quite a bit higher, although we too have an equivalent of National Insurance (we call it "sociale premies") which covers most of the cost of all welfare programs, and in the lowest tax bracket, these welfare premiums amount to more than twice the actual tax. (it's roughly 10% tax, 25% welfare premiums, and thus 35% combined). In subsequent brackets, the rate of welfare premiums stays the same, and only the tax rate goes up. EDIT: Looked at my most recent tax returns, and in the lowest brackets, the rates are 8.90% tax and 27.65% welfare premiums. Oh yes, and as for the whole tax free pocket thing, we sort of have that as well, but it's much more complex than just a single number, and depends on a whole heap of variables.

[@laurent1144]

This is really great information. Thank you for the explanation. As an American, I pay $4420 in premiums out of my paycheck (this money is not taxed) just for myself. Then, if I need to go to the doctor, I would pay extra, based on my plan. So last year, I payed approximately $3,000 in other medical costs. So on an income of $34,420 (before healthcare deductions), I paid $7,420 in health costs + $1965 in taxes. That's a total of $9386, or 27.3% of my income. So for everyone who says, "Yeah, but people in the UK pay way more in taxes," that is true. However, many Americans pay more in taxes + healthcare than people in the UK.

[@FlowerPotBakery]

Euhm, don't people know this already? I'm from the Netherlands, and we also have tax brackets, but I learned how to deal with it in my second year in secondary school... What do Americans learn in school?

[@jenjuice432]

That mitocondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

[@therealnoodles7638]

How to refuse vaccine and how to believe fake news

[@NightDoge]

How Christ our Lord wrote the American Constitution with his blood, sending every homosexual to jail and establishing God's new Free and Capitalist Kingdom. Until the Evil and wicked Obama came and tried to turn the frogs Gay. -- America! (CollegeHumor: if the other party won)

[@Hi-res64]

They learn the same thing Fox is not represent what Americans know and don't know this video was to purposely mislead people the youth and ignorant

[@aeon9311]

The whole point is that the highest bracket is set too low. 10 million dollars is a negligible amounts to thousands of ultra high income individuals. The tax would essentially take away almost 70% of their income, which is just unfair. It’s unfair to take most of what people worked for just because you need to pay for a massive welfare system. It’s legalized mob extortion.

[@jessicaferry3491]

I'm 16 and just looking at getting my first job, and this video actually really helped me understand more about taxes. I was really confused and I didn't understand tax brackets, but now I do. Thank you so much!! 😊

[@Avrysatos]

I didn't understand it at 16, but when I tried to do my own taxes the next year i did look it up and figure it out. now you know for tax time. (and if you barely work and only make a little money one year you do still have to file by the way)

[@tacosmexicanstyle7846]

Absolutely do not ask to get paid in cash. This means your workplace can get away with abusing you because they won't have to register you as an employee for tax purposes. They could get away with underpaying you, not paying you on time, not insuring you, or affording you penalties in line with the law if you're injured in the workplace. Saving a bit on tax is not worth being vulnerable to abuse

[@leopar3211]

Jessica Ferry at 16 this won’t really apply to you as much. You will only get taxed for social security and Medicaid

[@appleintosh]

Matt Parker That depends on how much you’re making. You can certainly pay income tax as a 16 year old, if you’re making more than $12,000 in the year.

[@leopar3211]

appleintosh that’s why I said as much, my fault, I should have been clearer.

[@BobMcCoy]

*_Tax Cuts for the Filthy Rich_*

[@ONeill01]

@ls7orBust Absolutely not

[@really4473]

ls7orBust def is not.

[@eisernfront8549]

@ls7orBust After ww2 and industrial revolution, the corporate tax was 90% and the middle class and economy was much stronger. Now a days middle class and the poor get taxed more than the top 1%. Thus corporate welfare was born thanks to Reagan and the Clintons.

[@zachmondial2172]

@@eisernfront8549 ill take not how it works for 100 alex

[@benjamin7114]

Problem is the rich now have options , tax them more and their money goes away and you earn less from their taxes . Governments can no longer enslave rich people and their wealth like after WW2

[@cuteologist]

This is an amazing video and teaches something everyone should know. I just wish they had specifically shown the difference in how much your tax would be with the wrong calculations versus the correct. The first calculation is $18, 480 The correct calculation is $11,258 With a difference of $7222

[@adeenatahir4156]

So it's basically the equivalent to electrons/income filling up pockets/orbitals of an atom with specific orbital capacities/brackets! Edit: Lmao I had no idea that this comment would receive any actual attention😂😅 Soo, just fyi, this was a very random and in the moment theory and I understand that while it maybe right, it could also be wrong😁 So, like, be kind maybe?

[@AllfatherBlack]

If you say so, but now I really want to understand the hell you're talking about. Googling "electron orbital filling" now, I guess...

[@samleyshon1482]

Not really sub shells fill in a really bizarre way and it varies depending on the element and what is a around the atom eg ligands

[@butterflyspinart]

Please do not remind me of high school chemistry

[@mihalis1010]

Yes, compare one complicated subject with another, far more complicated and unrelated subject. Makes sense.

[@colinyoung3685]

In this analogy is the government a highly reactive element that steals electrons?

[@RR-tk1sp]

I've always wondered about this. I heard from soo many people that they are being pushed into a higher tax bracket and can see they are making less money. I personally never saw it but figured they must be at the turning point from one bracket to the next. Seriously thank you for the explanation!! It really helped me to better understand something that they really should teach you in school.

[@sunnythegreat9617]

I wouldn't mind paying taxes, if the Government wasn't such a buffoon at wasting taxpayer's money. Taxes should be spent locally first, then federally. I care about the roads, bridges, tunnels, transportations, school, law & order, and community, of my local residence. I don't care about the low funding of Schools in some remote corner of the nation. But, taxes are spent federally first, then locally, which is why most of Americans are suffering because Government is horrible at allocating resources to where they are needed the most. People living in the local community know best where to spend the tax money, than a bunch of Politicians trying to figure out how to spend money from a building in DC.

[@VitaeLibra]

It's not that they don't know. It's that rich places, which don't need more stuff, get priority because they're rich

[@jagdeepsandhu8130]

Thank you. Someone is purposely not informing kids about this stuff IMO. It’s pretty straightforward so why not explain it in school? I know several ppl from different countries that had it all wrong, including me until I started working full time,

[@luketimmerman1808]

@@AnHeC I've seen you on multiple comments now and I'm so confused why you are flipping out over this. I know that I have never been taught these things in high school (I'm a senior); it's not a matter of paying attention or not. It's not my fault if we are never taught applicable knowledge. As for your comment about googling things, that is exactly what people are doing while on this video, but just receiving the information in a video instead of an article. It doesn't mean that people have no interests or are just lazy; people research things that they either need to know or are interested in. A kid who doesn't work enough to even be taxed has no need for this information, and instead will use their time to fulfill their other interests. I bet that I've researched things about flight and planes more than you, but I don't go calling you an idiot for not sharing the same interests as me.

[@nickthompson1812]

I’m 3 years late, but it’s by design. If republicans can keep fooling low-educated voters into thinking these tax brackets affect them and not the rich, they can protect the rich and have the low-educated voters vote against their own interests. There’s a reason republicans claim schools are indoctrination grounds and there’s a reason they want to abolish public schooling.

[@eatyourvegetables1449]

@@AnHeC the kids who don’t care and listen can become poor. But for kids like me and many other people, having mandatory finance classes would be great so I can understand how to manage my money.

[@SmoggySandwich]

This is extremely important to know and very very common misconception.

[@ashleyjenny186]

If you don't find a means of multiplying your money, you will wake up one day and realize that the money you thought you had, had been exhausted. Investment is a ladder to climb the financial wall.

[@potatomatop9326]

Watching cos my networth is $1.

[@erlendtryti]

at least its a positive number

[@kevineusebio]

Considering most people are negative due to student loan and credit card debt that's amazing lol

[@Babyshoes777]

At least it’s not in the negative 😂, you can literally sing with all truth... I got a dollar I gotta dollar I got a dollar hey hey hey hey

[@NavIsBalD]

You owe 10 cents as tax

[@aaronrosner8446]

@@NavIsBalD You are not taxed based on net worth

[@sokkaoaf2699]

My mind is BLOWN! I never knew that this was how one is to pay taxes. They MUST start teaching this in our schools.

[@rodrigogonzalez4596]

Government: you owe us your taxes Citizen: How much? Government: you have to figure it out. Citizen: So you don't know how much I owe you? Government: We know, we're just not telling you, and if you pay less you'll be charged

[@dr.avalanche4994]

I still don’t understand. The American school system failed me

[@dr.avalanche4994]

Whew so much for cracking a joke, huh?

[@enfercesttout]

Only if there was someone who teach the importance of child care to people. Like some kind of teach "er"

[@zf8604]

Surviner funny thing is a good majority of my knowledge came from the Internet and documentary’s (I still read good books!) yes books are important,but let’s focus on having information be spread correctly because I just of easily been turned into a dumass

[@hunterhenryk]

You got the American self-loathing right. That's a core of the education curriculum, especially at collegiate levels.

[@henriherrera9744]

Don't worry, in other parts of the world is a LOT worse. Venezuela, for example.

[@Commando303X]

The brackets you had at the start of this video I think actually lent a more effective graphic than the "pockets."

[@truejayoh]

This should be taught in all public high schools.

[@rohitjohn7498]

I wish they would teach this in school.

[@AnHeC]

I wish people use the wonderful freedom of information and at least... google things. Are people that passive that they know only infor that has been spoon fed to them? Maybe it's like an IQ test to see who is a mindless zombie XD

[@jhuerd]

Rohit John ...no you don’t. This is a theoretical explanation. Think. If taxes are a hammer, and swinging the hammer takes a year to reach your thumb, flat on the table...Will your thumb still be there? Will you ever put your thumb back on the table?

[@surfie007]

Australia has 0% tax for $18,200 and under

[@surfie007]

👍

[@OF01975]

surfie007 australia is a shithole

[@WoodLard]

@@OF01975 Australia has free health care

[@fjalls]

@ls7orBust Quite not the right word but I agree

[@pb_and_jj]

@ls7orBust how would you run a government without taxation?

[@juliehansen5696]

I couldn’t send them this video. It doesn’t address property taxes, state taxes, local taxes, etc. For some upper middle income people, you’re already dangerously close to 50% taxed.

[@kevind97]

I had to watch this twice because I didn't know how much each pocket could hold. I know now and I would have to say this is a very nice video and very nice infographic. Props to y'all at Vox.

[@nicolasoke7421]

How much could each pocket hold I'm still confused.

[@kalidilerious]

I'm confused because at first it was first 12k isn't taxed but then showed the first "pocket" 9.7k taxed at 10% ????

[@eatyourvegetables1449]

@@kalidilerious that deduction was a whole different pocket. Deductions are not taxed, and the leftover money that you can’t put into deductions is put into the tax brackets. So the first pocket was 9.7k taxed at 10%. Hope this makes sense lol

[@kalidilerious]

@@eatyourvegetables1449 ok.... so first 12k is not taxed. then the next 9.7k is taxed at 10%. right?... I hope...

[@jackpeterson305]

More informative than my high school finance class

[@white_brownie96]

I am married and my wife is a homemaker. I make about $100,000 a year as a plumber. We file taxes jointly. Under the 2022 federal brackets, I will pay about $13,000 in taxes (before deductions). Even though some of my income is in the 22% bracket, my what I like to call “effective tax rate” is only about 13%. And it will be even less since the standard deduction for my filing status is $25,900. Even as someone who is a little more conservative than liberal, I’m a fan of progressive tax brackets. I believe they are a pretty good compromise when considering tax burden distribution among the citizens.

[@victor9]

Thanks! It's a simple concept that can easily be miss understood!

[@TigerMonthlyHits]

I don’t recall learning about this in business class.... it actually makes me very infuriated.

[@tronophono913]

Women studies aint the only major that does brainwashing.

[@allen2346]

I'm usually a heavy critic on Vox for its controversial and biased videos, but I've got to hand it to them, GREAT JOB on this! A lot of people can benefit from this.

[@thebigsad9463]

Why so many dislikes? It's a good informational video

[@zachmondial2172]

What are you talking about

[@Hi-res64]

It's not a good informational video it's implying first of all that rich people pay low taxes and poor people pay any taxes at all this video was created to purposely mislead the sheeple

[@gsteezy39]

Hi it is an informational video and i haven’t heard the pockets analogy before which is honestly a better way to think about it, but vox’s channel and other videos are the reason this has so many dislikes

[@RaphPorsche]

At the beginning is very informative for people not familiar with income taxes but it implies very leftist propaganda when it mentions showing this video to "republicans" who are against tax increases. I´m a not a Republican but IT DON`T MATTER. ANY MONEY IN OUR OWN POCKET IS BETTER THAN ANY MONEY BEING SPENT BY BUREAUCRATS IN WASHINGTON DC!

[@sophianradio]

It's grown adults, brainwashed into grunting 'nuh uh' whenever their pet theory is demolished by high school math.

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

Ok seriously, thank you for making this video, Vox!! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@jdmatt7647]

This was much more useful to me than 2 Semesters of Accounting

[@danno1800]

I never knew that! Thanks for the excellent explanation.

[@dirtylevel]

THANK YOU! This has long been ignored by too many people

[@DrSevTalksMoney]

Well put. I just explained this on my video Sunday to people saying they don't want to make more because of taxes. You may pay more taxes but you also take home more. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@KeshArt]

Doesn't this punish/ discourage people for earning more? Because this does seem like some sort of a punishment for moving up your Income grade. Anyone explain this to me, Im really interested in learning about this.

[@stephenking9114]

I'm guessing since only the money in that bracket gets taxed, you still make more. If you got a raise that put you 300 dollars into the next bracket, and 50% was taxed, you would still have 150 more dollars.

[@jamieshannon9809]

@@stephenking9114 Sadly though, people tend only to see the tax deducted element ad not the additional money being paid to them. Personally I'd rather earn more and pay more tax and then get more in my paycheck. Which would then allow me to invest more to earn even more.

[@Merfolk_]

I'm 18, and I know this. I'm wondering how many people look up about tax deductions than arguing about something they barely have enough knowledge of?

[@Msh4rky]

This makes it make sense, you make really good tax videos.

[@jayaflower]

1:27 That's how to pay exact change.

[@jonleggett1543]

I'm a Republican that isn't afraid of getting news from multiple sources. And I found your video informative (though I already knew how marginal tax rates worked). I was going to share it except you had to editorialize at the end.

[@torfredrikgrndahl2156]

@Vox No one argues with the fact that that's how tax brackets work. However, marginal rates are the rates that affect behaviour at the margin. A person who's marginal tax rate is already the top marginal tax rate doesn't care what his average federal liability is when deciding whether it's worth it to him or her to work an extra hour or when investing to start a new business etc. So the fact that the average federal liability on, say, a mid six-figured salary wouldn't change much under AOC's tax plan doesn't matter much to economic growth. What matters to economic growth is the fact that the take-home pay on the marginal dollar earned for a person already in the top marginal tax bracket would more than halve from ($1-$0.375)=$0.625 to ($1-$0.7)=$0.3. So, in conclusion, doubling the top marginal tax rate would hurt economic growth disproportionately by altering incentives at the margins without raising much additional revenue for the government to be spent on Democratic priorities.

[@DescartesRenegade]

I knew it wasn't a flat rate cause the math never worked out that way and I always knew what a marginal tax rate was, but I didn't know EVERY bracket was a marginal tax rate.

[@agnios264]

This was actually very informative, I learned a lot thanks!

[@Realpacotaco]

Learned more about Taxes in this video than any where else

[@FirebirdPrince]

"Oh pockets. hmm so we gonna fill it, probably. Wait yellow pocket?? What? Oh no. annndddd you lost me"

[@jonathansavine9169]

Did Vox just make a well-informed, accurate video that vaguely supports the government?

[@SNS-9395]

The method in calculation is correct in the video. What is left out is how state tax comes into play. Consider the following. For Californians that are on the thread, let’s say you make $120K annual income. Your net pay, if not including 401k contributions and insurance, is roughly $80,924. I’d find that difficult to tell an individual that he or she should be okay to lose a near $40K on taxes alone.

[@willoughbykrenzteinburg]

then don't live in california

[@SNS-9395]

@@willoughbykrenzteinburg My point is that federal alone is not the sole issue to most people’s complaints. California is bad but the opportunity is extremely high which is why I stayed here.

[@willoughbykrenzteinburg]

@@SNS-9395 Yeah, everyone raves about the opportunities in California.... California is consistently second to only one U.S. territory in highest unemployment rate. That would be Puerto Rico. California : land of opportunity indeed.........

[@KGZAG2012]

You just confused me more 😂😂😜

[@OurFoundingLiars]

Eerily similar to the reptilian combat competition brackets... keep asking questions

[@ohmario1882]

Great satire, man.

[@eCouchPotatoe]

So going $1 over into the next tax bracket doesn't tax my other income at a higher rate? Why didn't anyone tell me this!?!???

[@PoweDiePie]

Correct. Nobody told you that due to the failure of the American education system.

[@eCouchPotatoe]

@@PoweDiePie Damn right about that. They never taught me anything about credit, home ownership, or taxes. What the hell? I'm 30 and this is the first time I'm hearing how the tax bracket system works.

[@piscatawaymechanic]

that was a good illustration.. perfect for visual learners!

[@rockwall5329]

If you show a Republican this, they say its fake news

[@Swagalious689]

Actually a democrat. Republicans are trying to come up with new taxes and screaming the rich dont pay their fair share.

[@philiplau9711]

@@Swagalious689 uh... Republicans just recently passed tax reform that reduced taxes on the rich by the largest margin in decades... Republicans tax reform dropped taxes on top 1% significantly. Massively reduced taxes on large businesses / megacorps. That drop of 30% corporate tax rate down to 20% helped small business a net total of absolutely zero. If anything, it's given large corporations an even greater advantage against any small business competition. And despite the massive tax break corporations received (which accounts for the majority of the 2.2 trillion dollars added to the national debt), there's been a noticeable increase in unemployment from 3.7 to 3.9% for 2018. GM cuts 14000 jobs, Verizon cuts 7000 jobs, Harley cuts all US production, AT&T cuts 4600, Broadcom, Xerox, Cisco, Ford, Activision, and on and on. There would've been thousands more jobs lost in the farming industry due to the near collapse of US soy farmers as a direct fallout of Trump tariffs if not for the taxpayer funded 15 billion dollar bailout. So what is this Republican tax increase you're talking about? Cause everything Trump and Republican stooges have done so far in the last 2 years has screwed the American tax payer.

[@PsychoMuffinSDM]

In Honolulu, if you have an investment home, as soon as that home is over a one million dollars, the property tax rates doubles for the whole value, not a bracket. That means a $1,000,000.00 home costs $450 in taxes, but a $1,000,000.01 home costs $900 in taxes. That's an expensive penny!

[@PoweDiePie]

*sighs* property taxes. Oh joy.

[@youri3808]

Wow, you guys barely pay any income tax... In the Netherlands we start at 37% for up to 20k, all the way up to 52% from 68k and upwards

[@plopto321]

Some States also have income tax like where I live in Oregon, so you have to add the State income tax on top of the Federal tax.

[@jimmyjames6318]

That's your own fault. We aren't that stupid. jk love the Netherlands ❤️ but couldn't live there. I would hate paying your tax rate

[@ShaunDreclin]

You have it much better when it comes to public services though, in the US you can go bankrupt and lose your house if you get sick.

[@youri3808]

@@ShaunDreclin Indeed, can't really complain when looking at the bigger picture. It always seemed to makes sense, paying taxes for some basic social services. I'd probably feel let down by my own government if that would happen.

[@brianmered9309]

Things are different in the new world. Europe has been raped and pillaged since the dark ages. Only now they're called a tax by politicians.

[@ashbycarpenter3726]

Visual learner here and this make so much more sense then when it was explained to me back in home economics class lol thanks Vox

[@Ocinneade345]

This is taking me back to the rolling calm of the TV stand coming into classroom, turning on some Mathnet. Well done!

[@ccvroon1263]

the taxes are sooooooo low in america

[@mikedean6283]

Cc Vroon this is straight up wrong

[@nofood1]

@@mikedean6283 super low. And I'm American born and raised. But thats what we get when we have to pay for healthcare and college.

[@supaman321123]

Taxes are theft

[@AgentSmith911]

Yeah, I can't wait to live the Venezuelan dream 😂

[@iamz3d]

You guys deserve an award for this, who knew it was that simple lol.

[@chantzukit681]

bear in mind this was filmed 5yrs ago, the tax brackets have changed

[@RicanSoldierBoy]

I've known this from the very beginning, i'm still paying too much.

[@JJerry-mh1mp]

which country and what % ?

[@mfdoom3113]

This is basic knowledge

[@KhanStopMe]

LOVE the crafty nature of this video.

[@nickc3657]

518 people dislike math

[@therock343]

Basic facts like this get lost among the left vs right arguments. Most inaccuracies are coming from the side where the top earners don't want to get taxed even though they are making a killing. We can all guess which side that is.

[@Hi-res64]

Where in this video was a basic fact the top earners pay 80% of the taxes yeah I guess people don't want to pay 70% of their income in taxes do you the idea that you don't deserve the fruits of your own labor is immoral

[@therock343]

@@Hi-res64 I appreciate you use of actual facts to back up your ideological argument. People wanting lower taxes like FOX News folks use scare tactics and false information to spread lies to general public like "YOU'LL ALL GET 70% OFF YOU'R PAY CHECKS". Also, I'll give you another fact, 70 to 80 percent of the economy is consumer spending. Most of that consumer spending doesnt come from the few folks that are in the top tax bracket, it's coming from the middle class. The ones outside that top tax bracket. You can be rich and enjoy the fruits of your labor but I think its morally impermissible to benefit from a booming economy and not give back to it. Its only a few fringe community on the left that want actual socialism. Most liberals arent even about the whole idea of "equality of income" it's more of equality of opportunity. The right needs to stop using scare tactics and debate these ideals using facts.

[@colinyoung3685]

@@therock343 Where do the middle class get their income? The hyper productive get hyper rewarded and can then afford to pay people to do work for them. If they use rentier or crony tactics to pursue wealth without contributing to society then they are immoral. No one is debating equality of opportunity it is evidently a good thing, just some people choose not to layer it with Foucaultvian nonsense to shoe-horn a victim-hood narrative into it.

[@therock343]

@@colinyoung3685 Where do you think the uber rich get their money from? Its not only their hard work. Its the booming economy that allows them to thrive. The economy that's powered by 70 to 80 percent of consumer spending by the middle class. No one is saying you shouldnt be rewarded for being innovative or a pioneer. You're acting as if its the only way to have innovation and new technology. That's simply not true and a very bleak view of mankind. Its similar type of thinking that "war is the best way to have innovation" ...ya but not for the long term. For long term, the right wing model doesnt work at all.

[@colinyoung3685]

Sorry I misrepresented you. I'd been flustered by the inane commentary elsewhere on this video. I appreciate the saying "necessity is the mother of invention" not greed. However the indirect incentive of sharing the fruits of your labour in the hopes that all mankind will advance so you in turn prosper doesn't appeal to us neurochemically, immediate reward does. I'd assert therefore that the rate of innovation is maximised by also maximising short term reward (or in the case of war minimising short term harm). Technological innovation has undoubtedly brought prosperity to humanity, I'd also wager it will continue to do so. This said, there has to be a balance between pursuing the most ethical way, and the most efficient way. If the former creates stagnation, no one is set to benefit. For the long term neither model alone works.

[@amnesiagame2314]

Okay, this completely bogus. I’ve built 5 businesses, and get reports for my businesses monthly. On top of that I own real estate and franchise in Colorado. For every $50k after legal write offs, and on a month to month basis, I pay anywhere from 15.3% up to about 50% of my own income to taxes. Same with the rest of my business partners that are self employed. We get taxed for payroll, retirement taxes, social security, Medicare, and benefits for our employees. And even though the average individual thinks vox explained it well. Start a business, it’s not that simple, since on top of my income taxes we pay federal, state, and county taxes. Sales tax on top of that. And since 3 of my 5 business are Single Member LLCs I get taxed more during tax time. And in total in the United States, the 1% paid $538 billion, and the bottom 90% paid $440 billion in taxes. So with those statistics and if you do the math. Taxes aren’t that simple. Because in the 2 of 5 businesses, I do have employees in which I paid double what all my 83 employees paid in total, after giving bonuses out to them. Go out and start a business and then you’ll see that taxes aren’t that simple. Like how Vox made it sound in this video

[@VitaeLibra]

As someone else said, you're expecting too much. This is a 3 minute video solely on how tax brackets work. Not a comprehensive guide to the economy

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

I understand it, but I still don't think that its fair that everything over 500k a year let's say, gets taxed at 70%. If you are going to take 70% everything over 500k, where is the drive to make over 500k just to lose it to the government? Also what people do not talk about is the fact that the more $ you make, the less and less government services you use.

[@chestersnap]

The 70% would be a higher income amount, I believe. Also, why does anyone need to make more than that? What do we lose if people refuse to make over 500k? I sincerely doubt many people who make more than that actually do an equivalent amount of work for it

[@museum1401]

Big difference between 500K and 10M..and you're still paying less than 70% on that first 10M.

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

@@museum1401 not much less if you start paying 70% over 500k

[@richfarfugnuven6308]

@@museum1401 the other question no one can answer is, why is the government entitled to 70% of money at any amount to pay for social programs that don't work. All social programs should be suspended in this country until they pay for fixing roads and bridges, which is something the actual taxpayers need.

[@museum1401]

@@richfarfugnuven6308 You don't pay 70% over 500k though; nobody is proposing that... Why do you keep saying it? Also - plenty of evidence that social programs do work - why do you think most developed countries have some kind of free health care system?

[@mr.clayton6830]

Pretty easy when you’re talking about taking someone else’s money.

[@zachariahtuttle3543]

underrated comment

[@kilroy2517]

Pretty easy to make that comment without providing an alternative method to pay for roads and bridges, police, defense, schools, etc. Funny how conservatives always deride socialists for wanting free stuff, when in reality it's the conservatives who don't want to pay for anything.

[@anitakotowicz5049]

No one has tried doing their own taxes and it shows. Great video

[@annarostagno8599]

I don't understand, isn't this supposed to be obvious for everyone?

[@Denverian]

not if you don't care. I didn't know (care) about this for a long time, and it didn't bother me during my tax return. I eventually fully figured this out a few years ago, but it doesn't make any differences when I do my tax.

[@laurent1144]

It's not taught in schools (American public schools) and my parents didn't teach me. I don't think they understand. I've also been really confused because when I make commission, it's taxed at a really high rate, even though I might only have an annual salary of $35k total.

[@baileybesheer8797]

You forgot the most important part! TAXATION IS THEFT!

[@gold_hev_suit]

Well I guess you’re fine with healthcare companies thieving your life’s savings when you get cancer

[@Damonh234]

Now explain credits and above-the-line deductions. Just a quick fact to consider: Once it is said and done most families making under $50k a year do not provide any source of federal income tax. In the US, the top 1% owns 38% of the wealth, and pays 39% of the federal taxes - more than the bottom 90%. Seems pretty fair to me.

[@HansP0203]

I feel cheated! Im paying just as much tax on 50,000$ a year, as someone in the US does for 460,000$.....

[@HansP0203]

@@MayTheSchwartzBeWithYou We are talking percentage vise.

[@HansP0203]

@@MayTheSchwartzBeWithYou No we don't receive any benefits, that is more or less a US thing. I feel cheated because someone in the US with 50K a year only pays around 18% tax, While where i live i pay the same tax percentage as someone in the US does with a income of 460k a year.

[@HansP0203]

@@MayTheSchwartzBeWithYou If you sum the average total cost per family then take in to account the tax difference its not really cheaper. Collage probably is cheaper on average but it really depends on which collage or university and what you're studying.

[@hmmm9658]

marginal tax is the best system

[@jackbuchanan8750]

why though?

[@VexinatorDesigns]

@@jackbuchanan8750 The more you earn the more you pay, yet on any given dollar (e.g the "5,000th" dollar) everyone pays the same, making it fair. It also prevents people from getting over taxed because their income (for example) goes from 48,000 to 51,000 and suddenly they have to pay 5% more tax because they entered a higher bracket, potentially causing them to actually have less net income at the end of the day.

[@hunterhenryk]

The premise is that money does not belong to you, that you should not have freedom to the fruits of your labors. You're allowed to have some, but, the more you earn, the less of it you should progressively receive. That is why some would say a flat tax is fair. You can still have a safety net level excluded from the tax.

[@Hi-res64]

@@VexinatorDesigns that's exactly how it worked before the new tax reform

[@psinformer1]

VexinatorDesigns What you just said at the end there about being taxed more in total when you enter a higher tax bracket I think is what a lot of people think happens

[@chavesa5]

Thank you guys for doing the needful.

[@Wigconic.]

When u broke tho...

[@-Zevin-]

*A response to others advocating for a flat % tax rate:* Flat % taxes are a tax on the poor and it's as simple as that. The mega wealthy have a vast majority of their money in banks, sitting on it and paying little to nothing in tax. While flat tax rates advocated by right wing organizations disproportionately effect people with lower incomes; as the vast majority of low income peoples money is spent and not saved. Meanwhile the entire reason the United States isn't a backwards third world country functionally is because of marginal tax rates. It was decided that increasingly the richer you are, the more percentage-wise you should pay back to the country that made you rich in the first place. This by definition effects only the most fortunate in our society to support their country that made them fortunate. These taxes then were used to benefit the greater public good. Roads, bridges, highways, public health and safety. Made possible largely because of the vast extra revenue raised from marginal tax rates. These public works are the very foundation of what separates a modern first world society from a third world one. Marginal tax rates massively increased the tax revenue available; to make things like the highway system we-all take for granted in the first place, possible. Many have been conned into believing a marginal tax rate system which would only ever benefit them and their country is a negative thing. Conned by the very people who it would effect, the ultra wealthy tiny elitist minority spreading misinformation. This is propaganda, spread by those that do not have you or your countries best interests at heart.

[@SuperKing604]

I'd like to see a study on this, flat tax doesn't seem like a good idea.

[@zacht9805]

You completely miscategorized what has been advocated for as far as a flat tax rate. The system we currently have redistributes wealth from the upper middle class to the lower middle class and poor, also under a flat tax income up to about 50k would not be taxed at all. So no the poor would not be responsible for the income tax. This would actually help a lot of poor single individuals.

[@josuem7398]

@@zacht9805 which in turn could increase the ability for a single person to afford a family then overtime that families combined income would circle its way back into the economy through more purchases being made triggering financial growth

[@zacht9805]

@@josuem7398 They just hate the flat tax because they want the rich to pay for their share plus their own. Do rich people somehow use up more government resources? I doubt if they do that it would be significant and definitely not proportional to what they pay in. Everybody should pay their share, right? Denmark's tax system doesn't reward those at lower income levels, so the kind of flat tax Republicans want is actually far more generous.

[@zacht9805]

@@SuperKing604 Why do you think it wouldn't be a good idea. If the rich are supposedly paying 13% effective rates as of right now and we move to a system of 0 deductions you just pay 17% on what you earn then the rich would actually end up paying more in taxes

[@wace-of-space6765]

Dear Vox, Thank you for the help! I'm working on taxes. Right now it is importuning. Thank you you again. Have a good day Love, Panda

[@fragle79]

Taxation is theft by majority vote you can cut it however you like it doesn’t make it moral unless it is voluntary. Income tax is decidedly not voluntary. Sales tax isn’t voluntary either but it is participatory which is orders of magnitude more voluntary than having money taken straight from your check. If the necessities were exempt you could voluntarily go your whole life and never pay taxes. People who don’t have social security numbers still pay taxes so the argument that immigration is a burden is negated. I am in the second bracket when it is said and done I pay 32% in taxes including Medicare and Social Security. Not only that my employer is forced to match my Social Security and Medicare contribution, around for a total of 12%. That is money my employer can’t pay me. Even if he tossed me 4% and kept 8% that would pay my electric bill a couple of months. When it is said and done after taxes I may as well be making minimum wage. This isn’t calculated from the tax brackets the numbers were generated directly from my check. None of the men in my family lived to collect Social Security. My grandfather probably paid in $500k. My grandmother collected a fraction of that. Since my mother remarried after my dad passed his social security disappears. Taxation is the biggest racket. The government is so god damn big you could completely eliminate the military and we would still borrow $400-500 billion every year. Don’t talk to me about raising taxes until they get spending under control. Putting hundreds of billions of dollars on your great grandkids’ credit card enslaving them to debt and excessive taxation is the most immoral thing I can think of.

[@wesleyw7908]

You don't want taxes? Have fun living in a country with none of the following: Infrastructure, that means roads, bridges, canals, carbadge cans etc. No army. No universal healthcare. No firefighters. No police. Should I go on?

[@lindsncal]

Kidding, right? What you leave out, or don't understand, would fill this entire page. Nonsense like "My grandmother collected a fraction .." That's how people who live much longer still get their money. ..like any insurance...those not using it help keep the price lower for people who need it. I could go on but think you wouldn't be interested no matter what you're shown. Meanwhile...in the U S, we now have one tenth of one percent of the people owning 90% of all the money. You want to make that even worse. No country can survive it.

[@mattiOTX]

People without papers cant pay federal income tax. You have to have federal paperwork to file witch they dont have.

[@arthurdent9281]

@@mattiOTX That's only true in some cases. Undocumented people usually obtain fake SS numbers when they work for companies. We've just heard how Trump's clubs were giving their employees fake numbers. They pay SS, Medicare, and income taxes. They won't be able to take advantage of those services though. This could be prevented pretty easily by requiring the use of systems like E-Verify, which would catch fake SSNs. But nobody really wants to punish the companies hiring these people. The GOP makes a lot of noise about the issue, but won't take the obvious and simple steps of requiring E-Verify and ensuring that the executives at these companies face stiff penalties for hiring undocumented workers.

[@fragle79]

@@wesleyw7908 all of our infrastructure except highways was built before the US socialized so that is not true.