How Tears of the Kingdom Fixes The Zelda Timeline [TotK THEORY][SPOILERS]

#zelda #tearsofthekingdom #zeldatimeline #canada
EDIT : Comments and Corrections Video:
• Comments & Corrections...
EDIT: I saw one or two comments mentioning the spoilers. There is the image at the start of the video that says SPOILERS but I added it to the video title in case people miss the first 4 seconds. Next time Ill have it in the video title at the start and Ill verbally say there are spoilers in the video. Sorry to anyone got anything spoiled.
EDIT: Wiz Catches Lightning Response Video
• How Tears of the Kingd...
This is my first video be gentle. I know its janky.
I currently cannot put links here so Ill update this when I can.
Music Used:
"Forest Temple" - LoZ: Ocarina of Time
"Daggerfall 2 Theme" - Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall
""Chamber of Sages" - LoZ: Ocarina of Time
"Ganondorf's Theme" - LoZ: Ocarina of TIme
"Zelda's Lullaby" - LoZ: Skyward Sword
"Zelda's Lullaby" - LoZ: Ocarina of Time
"Midna's Lament" - LoZ: Twilight Princess
"Clocktown (Day 1)" - LoZ: Majora's Mask
#zelda #tearsofthekingdom #theory #timeline

[@mfsevin]

I like that you colored the dragonbreak timeline purple, because in a way, its like the void of the triforce, the upside down blank triangle in the middle. Some fans depict it as the invisible "4th piece" (and colored purple thanks to 4 swords) entirely invisible, and separate, but still connected to all 3 parts of the triforce like an invisible glue holding its iconic shape together. And just as the void is invisible on the triforce, so are the events of the void timeline. The timeline that doesnt exist, but is connected to the other 3.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

This comment is great. I never even realized that, I just used a color that I thought wasnt connected to anything (yellow = time, red blue green for the triforce)

[@mfsevin]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 Thank you!! This comment made my day :)

[@mfsevin]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 Incredible theory, it's my new headcanon

[@Crabs581]

Its as the void is connected to all 3 triforces and is holding them together, the three timelines are being held together by the differences between them

[@Duni_of_Astora]

The triforce is a Shinto symbol of Japanese religion. there is no 4th piece as is held together by being a celestial being. it did not start with the Zelda series.

[@Velarieth]

I think people get really hung up on Rauru being the "first" king of Hyrule. He doesn't have to be the first king of ALL of Hyrule. He's the first King of the Hyrule Zelda in BOTW is born into. That kingdom could have risen and fallen many times before the Zonai show up at all.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

1 million % this

[@librariantopokemon]

​@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992​ i wanted to get your thoughts on this, as it follows what the guy above said. My theroy is that the zonai are actually the decendants of people that stayed in the skylands after skyward sword. They evolved differently and eventually decended. It could explain how they would be able to mate with hylians. And as seen in games like Twilight Princess, The Sky Islands that we find in the adult and downfall timelines are largly abandoned. I think in these two timelines the sky people died off, while in the child timeline they thrived long enough to become the zonai. My last theroy is that whatever caused the timelines to mix back up also caused hyrule as a whole to basically be destroyed. And then due to demise's cursings hyrule was once again brought back just like link zelda and ganondorf, to repeat the cycle infinitely until demise's curse actually won.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

@@librariantopokemon Its definitely a possibility. I cant think of anything that would go against the zonai being descendants of those Hylians. 99.9% there was a timeline merge, the only reason its not 100% is because Nintendo hasnt confirmed it but it makes way too much sense. The question is what CAUSED the merge, and yeah for sure whatever caused it could have destroyed the kingdom. For the curse, I think youd have to figure out if there must also be a Hyrule Kingdom as well as the 3 beings Demise mentions for the cycle to repeat. My own theory for the curse, if every LoZ game that features Link Zelda and Ganondorf has Ganondorf lose, then you could argue thats part of the cycle. Demise only says there will be "a reincarnation of evil, someone with the blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero," but maybe he didnt realize part of that cycle mirrors his defeat at the hands of SS Link. Talking with @wizcatcheslightning, we found there are other instances of fallen civilizations or Hyrule Kingdom becoming unstable throughout the lore. It seems like civilizations in the lore, just like in real life, come and go. It could be related to the curse, or it could just be the natural progression of the people of Hyrule. But I cant say for sure.

[@rawman44]

Why would he establish an entirely new kingdom and name it the same thing as some other kingdom

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

@@rawman44 the LAND is Hyrule

[@Jack-ld4pb]

For those who still don't understand it, a good way to think of it is that the 3 timelines are a undone zip, but when totk zelda travels back in time, she does the zip up, combing them

[@Mittzys]

comb

[@PAT22287]

Still doesn’t fully bring everything to a close. Why did the Zonia only appear now but seem to know the master sword and a “Hero” but at the same time seem to think they founded Hyrule first. This ain’t so much of a issue with his theory as it’s an issue with this theory solving key issues brought up in TOTK. Even if this ties all the timelines together what evidence do we have to prove this if the game ignores those same just to make Zonia appear. Do the Zonia really think they founded Hyrule? I don’t see how. As it existed long before them with a hero a sword and the triforce, all things they know of. There is more to it than this. That or it’s written in a way were both can’t be true and no true solution exists.

[@pkepix5405]

​@@PAT22287 another different founding of hyrule, obviously tens of thousands years after perhaps

[@samreddig8819]

​@@PAT22287 interactions with past Links? Perhaps the zonai are descendants of the ooccoo

[@cajunking5987]

The zonai exist at the end of the timeline, but long before BoTW no?

[@Diamonddeath]

There is a really interesting theory that I heard that essentially states that the Downfall Timeline was the first and original timeline. It wasn't until the end of "A Link to the Past" when Link wishes on the Triforce to undo all of Ganon's evil that the Triforce actually undoes Link's defeat at the end of "Ocarina of Time", whether that is a simple act of saving him or changing the events of the game to be what the player experiences. I thought that was a really neat theory.

[@Iamabum21]

I've said something similar about the Downfall Timeline being the natural timeline since sending Link back as a child with future knowledge alters it causing a new timeline (Child) and leaving other parallel timeline without a Hero, which by all intents and purposes, should've been erased because of the alteration of time causes by Link for the Child Timeline to exist.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

Yeah *technically* the master sword time travel doesnt work. Its why the next video is taking so long. But if you go logically how its supposed to work, the downfall timeline should be the only timeline. AND you could also have OoT be a time loop, meaning the adult timeline gets erased, but because Nintendo said the adult timeline stays, we have the adult timeline. And then the downfall timelines just chilling in a corner like "hey I exist too" even though there are no logical points for it to branch from.

[@Iamabum21]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 it's come to my attention while playing through the game, that they're placing BotW & TotK in the Downfall Timeline. But also made it aware to us that they retconned OoT & the ALttP Imprisoning War backstory into one entire historical event, which would play more into Zelda's character, as she spent more time studying about history of Hyrule (and the Guardians) in BotW and still in TotK. Reason why that may be is that those various memories/story beats we watched from the Tears, parallel those of OoT like Zelda being present during Ganondorf's "fealty" to Rauru and having her suspicions of him; his rise in power into the Demon King after defeating/killing a key person with the ability to control time (OoT it was Link, and in TotK it's Sonia); the absence of the Hero to prevent Ganondorf's reign between his rise in power and his imprisonment; Zelda and the Sage's last ditch effort to seal Ganondorf as best as they could despite his ability to reincarnate his malice into the being, Ganon; and if you look at Rauru's medallion, it resembles the face of the OoT Rauru. With that being said, if those observations I pointed out are actually the case then that means Skyward Sword did happen but everything else is more than likely a Hyrulean legend and not a historically accurate take throughout the Downfall Timeline

[@SuperSmashBoiz]

I would like to add the possibility that the specific event that changed due to Link's wish was the appearance of the Light Arrows in OoT. They kinda just appear without any explanation in OoT, and without them, Link cannot defeat Ganondorf.

[@Diamonddeath]

@@Iamabum21 What does that have to do with the Downfall Timeline?

[@MySnugglePuppy]

I like to think the Golden Goddesses got tired of dealing with three timelines, so they just squished them together, realized nothing made sense and hyrule fell into anarchy, so they sent messengers of the gods, the Zonai (If Hylians have long ears to hear the gods, the Zonai’s longer ears could hear the gods better) to fix all the crap.

[@deadbeats747]

No the timelines were combined when the goddesses overseer of the tri force fell in love with link in all timlines and combined all of the eras together just before the events of botw

[@Confron7a7ion7]

​@@deadbeats747 did you just make Hyrule Warriors cannon?

[@deadbeats747]

@@Confron7a7ion7 it's the only way the timeline makes sense and they already told the story. So might as well say it's Canon. They made a game set in botw where they combined the timelines so just roll with it

[@checkme1830]

Hmm, personally I think that the failure timeline is inevitable and they all fused into that one at some point. Think of it as the broom that reality takes to sweep up the mess. So technically, botw and totk are of the failure timeline as they too are seemingly inevitable

[@deadbeats747]

@Check Me but the failure timeline takes place after certain games. So unless it's a loop it can't be inevitable

[@tBOGGgle]

The weird thing about TotK that still gets me is the clear presence of Fi in the master sword when she talks to Zelda

[@Blue-fg8vt]

Tbh before totk came out I was wondering if the master sword was a fake due to it acting weird, and Fi, in all this time, only now deciding to speak.

[@ejhstmac8783]

if I'm bot mistaken it says that she went to rest after skyward sword , even then several games reference the master sword communicating in some way, also the sowrd broke that seems like a very good reason to talk

[@ErenYeager-oi6hu]

​@@Blue-fg8vt She spoke when Link died in botw and after you complete trial of the sword

[@Blue-fg8vt]

@@ErenYeager-oi6hu not to link, and could of been a different entity speaking. My theory was what we have is the shekia's best copy of the master sword, as evidence dictates they did try to copy it.

[@d4ever649]

@@Blue-fg8vt if you listen carefully, Fi’s theme plays.

[@ericwritessongs]

I think all three timelines being true at once also helps explain why the Rito and Zora can coexist in the same game. The Rito not existing in the Downfall and Child timelines, and the Zora evolving into the Rito in the adult timeline. I assumed ToTK's past events were after Skyward Sword and before Minish Cap (with the founding of Hyrule) but I think this makes a lot more sense when you consider Hyrule is constantly being destroyed and refounded.

[@dreadGodshand]

The zora did not evolve into the rito. That is a fan theory that never made sense to me. The Rito's first appearance was wind waker, right? And zora's aren't in the wind waker. That's where that theory comes from. But the wind waker had that global flood. So why would the zora need to "evolve" into birds to adapt? If anything, it would make more sense to say the rito needs to evolve into the zora to survive since the zora are a people of fish and birds need land to survive.

[@SailorYinYang]

@@dreadGodshand The theory comes from Wind Waker in that Medli is the new Sage of Earth in that game while the previous one, her ancestor, was a Zora. They are specifically stated to be blood related.

[@dreadGodshand]

@@SailorYinYang where in wind waker did they say they are related?

[@SailorYinYang]

@@dreadGodshand When you talk to Laruto in the Earth Temple for the first time, she says to seek out her descendant who should have the same harp. You get a similar line in the Wind Temple with the Kokiri boy and Makar.

[@dreadGodshand]

@@SailorYinYang I don't recall her saying her descendant. But it has been years since I played it for the wii u.

[@MrYogiLopez]

Tears of the Kingdom also represent the 3 states of Hyrule. The sky (adult), Hyrule (child), the depths (downfall) and represented by their colors of the triforce blue (sky, wisdom), green (Hyrule, courage), red (depths/gloom, power) all stacked on top of one another.

[@Manny13840]

Yep I saw that, I also feel the depths are old hyrule.

[@SotiCoto]

Um... the Child timeline was the Wisdom one (blue). Not that it matters a whit to me, but internal consistency is probably desirable.

[@ariffirdaus5376]

​​@@Manny13840 depts its actually the inverted map of hyrule, you can see that mountains are valleys bellow and all that stuff. i think its kinda cool how much content can be made by a single map lol

[@Cossey]

More like "Tiers" of the Kingdom, amiright?

[@obviousnazimachine]

I also saw someone theorize that there will be a third game to make a trilogy (kind of like they were going to do with the oracle games). Breath of the wild was blue (nayru/wisdom), totk is green (farore/courage), and the alleged third game will be red (din/power). I think it’s pretty far fetched (and I kind of hope it’s not true bc I want Nintendo to move on and make a zelda with completely new assets), but your comment reminded me of that.

[@Iso20227]

I’m so glad you referenced a “Dragon Break”. They call it that because the female dragons were temporal beings that traveled through time and fixed abnormalities. The dragons fix the break. That’s also why none are seen in Skyrim, only male dragons are seen because there aren’t any real temporal anomalies at that time, just threats to the mortal plane, Mundus.

[@zeroniTDX]

Yooo that makes even more sense then especially if theres a focus on female dragons like u say

[@reffa2858]

Never heard of that lore in the elder scrolls...

[@Iso20227]

@@reffa2858 I’m pretty sure I first heard about it in FudgeMuppet’s “Complete guide to Dragons”

[@ImRushshanish]

It’s more of the fact that the god of time in elder scrolls is akatosh the dragon god of time

[@amandasunshine2]

​@@ImRushshanish yeah, I was like wouldn't that kinda also make them temporal beings too?

[@blakemyrddin2167]

The better example of the TOTK causality loop would be how Ganon wakes up at the start of the game with memories of Zelda and Rarus warning about link, there by meaning that Zelda had always gone back in time to cause the past and present we see in the games.

[@Tylex2000]

Omg i didnt realize

[@novantha1]

Wait, does Ganon ever explicitly reference that warning before Zelda goes into the past? I'm not 100% sure does...

[@hyper_lynx]

@@novantha1 He says something like "Rauru placed his faith in you" when talking to Link, which we see happen after Zelda told Rauru about Link

[@noodletribunal9793]

the complete mural underground also does the same thing, though at least you can imagine it could have originally been different(though since ganondorf remembered link, it wouldnt)

[@keioboy7610]

That's not a loop Ganon referring to them by name is what causes the time travel. What you described is just the single timeline approach to time travel.

[@dukenukem42069]

Didn't think it was possibly to make sense of how BOTW and TOTK fit into the timeline but this was actually a really great explanation.

[@ruger2185]

It doesn't how is hyrule founded twice They rebooted Is the series with breath of the wild

[@darkspiro6467]

​@Timothy Stasiewski there is no confirmation that it is a reboot I feel like netendo would not just throwaway all the progress that they made with connecting the games

[@MuffinsAPlenty]

@@darkspiro6467 I don't think Nintendo put _that_ much work into making the timeline in the first place. It has always been a convoluted mess. I recommend watching the video by OnADock about the how the Zelda timeline has changed with each new game's release. There's also a 2017 interview from Aonuma where he basically said that the Zelda team was frustrated by Miyamoto's insistence that they adhere to the timeline. And Aonuma started to be in charge of the Zelda team with Breath of the Wild. So a person who has always been frustrated with the timeline being necessary is now in charge of the games. There's also the fact that the names "Rauru" and "Imprisoning War" were used. Why would Nintendo choose to use names that have well-established meaning within Zelda lore, but use them very differently from how the old lore used them? Not to mention that TotK has a lot of "retelling the story of OoT" vibes from it, particularly the memory where Ganondorf swears fealty to the King of Hyrule. I love theorizing about Zelda timelines. I have ever since The Wind Waker came out 20 years ago. But when I look at the details in BotW and TotK and listen to what Aonuma has said over the past several years, the most reasonable conclusion to me is that Aonuma used TotK to do a hard reset on Zelda lore. Now, there are ways one could make sense of fitting BotW and TotK into the timeline, sure. But I wouldn't be surprised if, after the release of every new Zelda game, there's a sort of "crisis" in Zelda timeline theory because everything is now even more of a contradictory mess than it always had been.

[@Rusty_Spy]

@@ruger2185 so I guess Spirit Tracks is a reboot because they founded a second Hyrule in that game.

[@RCC_1]

@@ruger2185 I don't really think it's a reboot but I simply think they don't care about the timeline, which is very comprenhensible. The other games were put in the timeline together but I don't think there was much reason to do so. I think Nintendo has always been doing kind of reboots / independent interpretations. You can group them OoT, MM, TP, TWW and PH; Zelda 1 and Zelda 2; and so on, but putting all of them together in just one timeline was something I don't think has much value.

[@josuelafountaine5147]

This actually makes a TON of sense when you also consider the developers citing the elder scrolls as inspiration, and the fact that a DRAGON is involved. And the logo of the two dragons in a loop. Damn.

[@lexalot8337]

I thought the two dragons in the logo referenced the ending of the game, where the dragon of light fights the dragon of darkness.

[@valentineomalley7290]

​@@lexalot8337 the symbol itself, an auroboros, is also often used to symbolise endless cycles, likely pointing to the reincarnation of Demise/Ganondorf, and generally even in a simple sense yeah, DRAGON break. Hilariously, it could actually be a mix of all of these, the dragonbreak, the cycles, the simplicity of the light and demon dragon

[@josuelafountaine5147]

@@lexalot8337 I think it can be both. I thought the same thing while playing the fight. Lol

[@Xynedal]

@@valentineomalley7290 it's not an auroboros

[@justdrifting4749]

@@Xynedal it quite literally is

[@lozangekitten-gamer7626]

This theory also adds up to the reasoning behind many areas being named after many former timeline's areas as it is mashed up. Rito Village being an extremely tall mountain which could be an island if that Hyrule was flooded (akin to dragonroost island), Goron City from various games living in the various Death Mountains of the former timelines, Zora's Domain with 2 lakes representing Mikau and Lulu, Zora lovers. While the Gerudo didn't have a "town" so to speak, the ocarina's Valley housed their fortress, which could count as their town since, beyond that, is a desert. Twilight Princess's Arbiter's Ground return as a quicksand area in totk, and many, many more. Another thing that solidify the causal loop theory is that, in the beginning of the game, there are 3-4 murals which are blocked by boulders, hiding the details of the imprisoning war, Zelda receiving the Master Sword in the past, and the past Zelda performing Draconification. While Impa stated that the geoglyphs appeared out of nowhere all over Hyrule, I'd actually believe that those were there the whole time, but could only be seen when the upheaval happens in the present time, otherwise why is there a chamber depicting said geoglyphs if those weren't created in the past, remain invisible while Ganondorf is sealed, but appears when he returns? (I don't want answers as the question is rhetorical)

[@DiosBabilonia]

I think the geoglyphs were created by the Light Dragon between the time when Ganondorf knocks Link out and when he wakes up on the Great Sky Island.

[@aerolink2515]

The fact that the ritos and Zoras exist at the same time is also a huge deal for the merging of the timelines

[@lozangekitten-gamer7626]

@@aerolink2515 yes, as wind waker's rito originated from zora evolving into the bird people we know from the toon timeline

[@arturohernandez5509]

i really like the idea that we’re playing through the timelines suddenly converging and everyone noticing the changes. i wonder if they’ll even remember things being different after the upheaval or if it would be just like a foggy memory type of thing

[@97MiloProductions]

if you go back and talk to impa after seeing all the memories, she says something along these lines: "the geoglyphs seem to have been created by ancient people that saw zelda's tears/memories as visions and depicted part of their contents as a glyph" given how the map is located within the zonai ruins where rauru burried sonia it was likely the hylians of that era that did this. and yes the glyphs probably faded over time but the upheaval brought them back to visibility, as well as resurfacing the tears the dragon shed

[@azlufa7607]

I really love this theory in general but I particularly love the bit about the new remembered singular timeline in relation to the zonai. It feels like there's a new "people of the gods" in every zelda game, particularly the oocca in TP. So the people of Hyrule "mistaking the zonai for gods" wraps all of that up in a neat bow, because the zonai could have been literally all of them at once; the wind tribe, the oocca, and twili. In other words, all of these different "tribes of the gods" DID exist as seperate completely valid races, but after the closing of the timeline split, they all converge into one "race from the gods", the zonai. Keep up the zelda content!!!

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

This is a legit idea

[@colinmcewan7289]

This could be it right here

[@nowun6043]

That’s a really cool theory, the only thing I think could trip it up is that all 3 of those groups; the wind tribe, oocca and twili all come from a singular thread of the timeline and aren’t disparate. So the idea of the re-converging of timelines mashing them all together doesn’t seem as plausible when their chronology was already sound and unaffected by the split in OoT

[@gonhunter3994]

Nah, the Twili are the descendants of the Sheikah

[@Northraider123]

the twili were never a "tribe of the gods" tho they were the decendents of "dark interlopers" who used dark magics to try and take over the sacred realm before being banished to the shadow realm by the light spitits. if anything their origins *might* be linked to the tribe that made majoras mask

[@HerosUnlikely]

This is awesome, I like this theory a lot. It also would explain why you can find items from all across the timeline in these two games, they're literally relics of legends past rediscovered in the fused timeline.

[@QuasarEE]

Yeah those items were ambiguous when they were just DLC in BotW but TotK has you finding them embedded into its storytelling/lore, so I think now they can be considered as nods to canon.

[@L0H3R1CK]

I love that “fused timeline” name its perfect lol

[@anAngeal]

I figured that the Dragonbreak ends when Hyrule Kingdom dissolves in all three timelines; they merge together because all three reached the same conclusion, leaving only ‘how did Hyrule fall’ with contradictory histories. The Kingdom of Hyrule is then revived or re-founded by Sonia and Rauru- with Sonia being a descendant of the original Hyrulian royal family. Additionally, the Imprisoning War mentioned in TotK results from Demise’s curse becoming so powerful as the result of the stolen Secret Stone that Demise outright revives himself.

[@olivialanteri5620]

I love this theory. Something I was always wondering throughout my TotK playthrough was how having Rauru and Sonia being the first king and queen worked with the events following Skyward Sword. After Skyward Sword, Link and Zelda descend from the skies to found the Kingdom of Hyrule together, with them presumably becoming the first king and queen. Having it so that Skyward Sword still happens and that Rauru and Sonia becoming the first king and queen of the "new Hyrule," or the Hyrule rebuilt after the merging of the three separate destroyed Hyrules, avoids the idea of TotK retconing the post-game events of Skyward Sword.

[@awesomemike1500]

Wow! This explains the contradictory histories of skywardsword and the zonai, the imprisoning war and ocarina of time! It makes so much sense! And if you want to get extra meta you can also say the botw games from other regions that mention the downfall, child and adult timelines are correctly in those timelines but when this game happens it collapses them all together and was just the thing to fully collapse them together!

[@PAT22287]

Maybe I’m being thick, but how? He suggests it combines the timelines. Ok got it, so what Hyrule existed in all 3. The Zonai just suddenly appear and do the same thing as link and Zelda from Skyward sword do to an already existing kingdom with history? Also if they did then why was Hyrule destroyed and needed to be re-founded? How could the Zonia even say they founded it or established Hyrule at all if we find reference to all other timelines before the Zonia came to Hyrule? Surely they too would find evidence of an already existing Hyrule. I just don’t see this making since.

[@zeromortals8675]

@@PAT22287 I mean the only time hyrule was “destroyed” and “wiped out” completely was in the adult timeline as wind waker states even then it all wouldn’t make sense cause you basically would be saying there was two Ganondorfs alive as well during the entirety of all other timelines

[@solarsunne4950]

Hyrule isn't founded in Skyward Sword.

[@PAT22287]

@@solarsunne4950 It is referenced in the Hyrule Historia books that they do. So the comment is accurate.

[@nowedraken502]

@@PAT22287 the idea of something doesn't need to be original to be founded under the right conditions. BOTW supposedly takes place like 10,000+ years after the games before it. It's possible that any version of Hyrule before hand faded into legend, and while they can still find mentions or ruins suggesting it's history, regardless of if it's name is mentioned, the Zonai and Sonia at the time could have been inspired by those to found a new Hyrule creating their own. They still found Hyrule in this situation, but it's not the same Hyrule that we know from past events. It's weird and odd cause messing with time always is, but it's entirely possible. Regardless the timeline is 100% open to fan adjustment and viewing. Only 2 points are set in stone, this being Skyward sword and Ocarina of time. every other game can be adjusted to some degree based on how any individual fan views it, as stated by the creators themselves. BOTW is set in stone to be after Ocarina but besides that it's still open to the same rules. long story short, just have fun with the games don't stress the timeline that much XD

[@jonathanhucke]

Using The Legend of Zelda to explain concepts of time travel and quantum therories at the same time, I love it.

[@chrisdelong7765]

Referencing Dragon Breaks is a big brain move, explains the theory really well too. Hella good video chief, can't wait to see more discussion come from this.

[@eziowayne]

I love everyone attempting to make this lore make sense! And this video is a legendary theory! I’d love to see more theories from you! Particularly Tears of the Kingdom related theories!

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

Thanks so much! Initially this was going to be a 2 parter with part 2 being a TotK story rewrite. Im still doing that (which will probably be a little controversial) but I got side tracked with a different-but-related zelda video

[@irl441]

​@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 ahh man can't wait 😊

[@eziowayne]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 ohhh a story rewrite could be very interesting!

[@doge229]

This is a pretty good way to solve the convergence of the timelines. You did a good job explaining it, and I'm really glad that people aren't going around telling others that TotK pretends that the events of Skyward Sword didn't happen.

[@ghostagent3552]

I've never heard of dragonbreak before but it is fascinating how many stories that have branching paths do this as well with either differing names or just an independent but identical concept

[@incognitoman3656]

Technically an outside observer (i.e. one from outside Hyrule) wouldn’t be affected by the dragon break, and could end it by sharing their memories (the prime candidates here are the sky people) The whole superposition thing was such a great analogy it almost makes the dragon break feel like an intentional choice instead of a lazy retcon (in tes)

[@ghostagent3552]

@@incognitoman3656 for me I feel that the superposition analogy is rather unnecessary as it may overcomplicate things... generally it would just be easier to say that the three timeline combined into one without really talking about how they can all be three prior to the dragonbreak

[@incognitoman3656]

@@ghostagent3552 it is necessary, because histories from one area (i.e. wayrest ) are different from others regionally, which I think would explain this paradox that would otherwise contradict his logic: the Zelda to originally travel back in time. It was none of them, honestly it could’ve been any one of the people who arrived in hyrule from the sacred realm, a different reality of sorts.

[@weaboosama6706]

Its taken right from elder scrolls....

[@incognitoman3656]

@@weaboosama6706 he literally said that

[@PlantFaceMan]

I think that the reason the Child Timeline splits off is because Zelda sends the Hero back in time with the Triforce of Courage already split within him. The Triforce being such a metaphysically significant object, having a split Triforce return to a point in time when the Triforce exists as an intact whole in the Sacred Realm could create a branching timeline (the Child Timeline). The Triforce of Courage is conspicuously visible on the Hero's hand in the final shot of the game where he is warning Zelda - I believe this is a deliberate clue. This splitting of the Triforce is also the reason for the 'divine prank' in Twilight Princess (which is in the Child Timeline), which is when Ganondorf's execution by the Sages is prevented by the Triforce of Power awakening within him. It seems that when the Hero is sent back with his piece of the Triforce, the other two pieces go to Ganondorf and (presumably) Zelda.

[@rhnirsilva652]

that would make the "divine prank" much more effective narratively, being consequence of heroes` action.

[@PlantFaceMan]

@@rhnirsilva652 100%, it'd be yet another ironic result of the Hero of Time's actions.

[@Ozone946]

@@PlantFaceMan of Zelda's actions* Aint no one going to blame my boy for something he didnt do!

[@PlantFaceMan]

@Oz he did go through the quest, though. His actions, i.e. the game you just played

[@rhnirsilva652]

​ @Ozone946 its less about who to blame and more about how the heroes' actions affected the world for ever, in ways they couldnt even think (as the triforce isnt really understood fully)

[@watchmojosh]

The fact that you almost have to be a quantum physicist to understand the LoZ timeline makes me love the franchise even more than I thought I could

[@oliviergagnon8719]

None of this relates to quantum mechanics

[@watchmojosh]

@@oliviergagnon8719 I completely do not care.

[@Vizzy.787]

Quantum physics and time travel are not the same thing, but yea you do have to be pretty well informed to be able to logically explain the Zelda timeline

[@FelipeKana1]

Actually this shows how little Nintendo writers care for this all. By the way, we didn't get a triforce in TotK, AGAIN. They're really messing up with the cannon

[@cesarsuarez7538]

"To be fair you have to have a very high IQ to understand The Legend of Zelda. The writing is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of quantum physics most of the story will go over a typical gamer's head".

[@Kapperson720]

This theory is so wonderful, and as a Zelda fan who's been obsessed with the timeline FOREVER, it absolutely scratches my brain so well. thank you for this wonderful video < 3

[@gregpl9363]

This blends damn well with the fact that the Zelda parts of the mural in the starting of TotK are blocked off by rocks, basically it’s very own Schrödinger’s cat, who is to say if it’s the same what’s happening as when we are able to break them, also an argument for that temporal causality loop for the sage of time

[@MrSpike1181]

Great job tackling a really tricky topic. Time travel, time loops, causalities. I think you made it about as clear as possible.

[@1BlueRozez1]

I’ve seen so many shows/movies/games/books about time travel and stuff that like. It’s clear in my head on how this all works, but I struggle to be able to explain it to other people. 😅 so I’m glad there’s people like you that are smart enough to lay it all down carefully and slowly for others

[@mememan5466]

Zelda's time travel is different to the song of storms because she has a clear beginning and end. Zelda's path began at her birth and then she did all of the stuff in botw and then when it came to totk she was sent back. After she was sent back, she did all of the stuff in the past, became the light dragon and then lived to the present where she turned back into Zelda and lived on. You can follow the path of one Zelda here but with the song of storms it's not that easy. Link learns the song as an adult from the windmill man. He then goes back in time and plays the song to him as a child. This creates a loop because there's no beginning or end to the song, unlike Zelda. Whilst Zelda's timeline could fix the split, it's not a paradox.

[@Azillia]

Well, zelda had to of been in the past from the beginning anyways, if not then the events shown would of been way different So tbh, zelda always existed in the past before she was born

[@heyyou9903]

Imo it is the same if you look at as the song itself going back in time instead of link learning it from the guy he told it to who didn't know it The only take I have on this is what do both the song and zelda have that allows these time shenanigans Maybe destiny shenanigans

[@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii4222]

Thank you. At least someone gets it

[@raskolnikov6443]

@@Azillia yes her traveling into the past has changed the world. Those changes are already in BOTW. We don’t know of a world/ timeline where she didn’t exist in the past. She’s already in the Sky with the master sword during BOTW (hidden like the sky islands before link is brought to them which uncovers them). We see one timeline without any splits. Her traveling to the past changed the world and its timeline irreversibly.

[@Azillia]

@@raskolnikov6443 what makes me curious, is what originally happened before she time travelled Like, in the video, he says its a loop But what happened before the start of that loop

[@mrlborges]

I think this is the best possible solution for the timeline mess so far. Thanks. I’m 100% with you in this one.

[@RCC_1]

Spoiler: TOTK doesn't care for the timeline at all. It doesn't even care for BOTW. 😂😅

[@mrlborges]

​@@RCC_1 I disagree. As Fi once said "Ah yes, the oral tradition, one of the least reliable methods of information retention and transmission. It appears that critical sections of the passage have been lost over the generations."

[@UltimateTobi]

I like that much more than having TotK's past be right after SS, basically retconning every game (including our fav random king Gustav being the first king of Hyrule.), as it seemed to do, but perhaps (hopefully) not. TotK's past playing so far in the future, that Hyrule is simply re-founded (because it fell, got wiped out, what have you), Rauru being the "first" king, and then everything you said about how it combines the three timelines into one.

[@cajunking5987]

I don’t know why everybody didn’t already know this to be the case…

[@Zephyr16]

This is also what i thought what happened. The kingdom fell in the downfall timeline and it was just re-established with a new first king of hyrule shown in totk. We know its re-established because theres a new kingdom of hyrule in a link to the past. People are making this more complicated then it needs to be.

[@supercharged5-39]

@@Zephyr16 yes exactly

[@1107Archangel]

@@Zephyr16 honestly same thought, and the reason for a Zonai to rule over hyrule to me just feels like the gods have deemed the mortal races incompetent in caring for the world they crafted so after god knows how many cycles they sent someone to lend a more direct approach this time.

[@Cendrail0001]

​@@Zephyr16 It also fell in the Adult timeline, if you remember the massive flood and Link and Tetra leaving to create their land elsewhere

[@flygonkerel781]

FINALLY someone brings up the princess Zelda time paradox !!!! NO ONE ELSE HAS MENTIONED THIS!

[@masamune2984]

You’ve really never heard this this discussion before? I loved this video, but the time paradox has been discussed COUNTLESS times, in many, many videos.

[@ghostly66799]

There is no time paradox no matter what happens in the timeline it ALWAYS HAPPENS so zelda when she goes back in time it always happens look at the cover mural beneau hyrule castle this was always here before zelda goes to the past and explain what happen to her

[@schrodingerzat2633]

An old theory I heard years ago is that the power of the triforce shard of courage is Quantum Immortality. Link always wins as they Triforce always brings him back. However with time being weak due to time travel, the possibility of Ganondorf killing Link was possible. Creating the downfall.

[@heehoo3685]

quantum immortality works like Determination in Undertale?

[@baderbaroudy703]

THIS IS SO GOOD!! as a fellow overthinker this made everything make sense, can’t wait to see your channel grow!

[@CannonJ81]

FIRST VIDEO? mf you explained the theory so damn well, you somehow made time paradoxes easy to understand, amazing theory and video

[@wyrmlingable]

This is great. I've been arguing for the "Dragon Break" style timeline theory since Breath of the Wild came out. A lot better than I could have put it and very neatly ties in Tears of the Kingdom, which I was struggling with. I was of the opinion that Tears was a massive retcon of lore, but this pairs really well with the Wiz Catches Lightning video and tidies it all up nicely.

[@sleepyhyrule6894]

A simpler reason for why the people in the timeline remember only a certain history: Hylia has the power to affect memory. Also, the first Zelda in the timeline is Hylia, everything Starts with the Goddess of Time.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

His reasoning is simple enough. The people after the timelines converge would have no idea that the split ever happened to begin with cuz all they know is the timelines being brought together. Also tbf, Zelda is always Hylia. Zelda and Hylia are one in the same, it's just that Hylia is her before she became mortal. Demise cursed their souls to come back again and again.

[@zinnia4516]

@@moonlitxangel5771 this is not true only Zelda in SS is Hylia reborn every other Zelda just shares a blood bond. Demise cursed the bloodline of Hylia and the spirit of the hero.

[@sleepyhyrule6894]

@@moonlitxangel5771 his reasoning is based on quantum mechanics, which is never simple because it's entirely theoretical and comes down to space magic. Every incarnation of the three heroes, never has their previous memories erased. Also Hylia is the Goddess of Time, not just an individual being, but as the essence of time itself, she exists omnipresently from her time in the past in her original physical form. Which is how Zelda is able to recieve messages from her own soul.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

@@zinnia4516 Considering the term "cycle of rebirth" is used *and* Zelda often has inexplicable magic powers that no one else seems to have, her continuing to be the goddess Hylia reborn makes much more sense than just some random descendent who should be getting less and less powerful as the connection to the goddess is diulted over millenia.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

Also if we consider that the devs are Japanese and reincarnation is largely believed to be a thing in Japan so them all being reincarnated makes more sense than just Ganondorf and Link with a descendent of Hylia Zelda who just happens to have the same name and similar features (especially when we figure in BotW and TotK where the legends about the Hero of Time have been lost to history and therefore it's likely many of the other things were lost as well.

[@emilynyan6603]

I think it actually would be very fitting for Zelda to have "broken" the timeline by forcing her Link back in Time and then eventually being forced back in time herself, fixing the timeline. This would also explain why the future in TotK is entirely deterministic (the Light Dragon existing at the start of the game, when Link drops into the GSI necessitates that he sends the MS back in time), which would normally contradict OoT, since OoT has 3 different endings to its story that co-exist.

[@KirbyHenry10]

I love that this also explains the coexistence of zora and rito

[@user-eb1010]

This is my favorite theory regarding the Legend of Zelda timeline. In how it all ends up working out in the end by connecting all the timelines with dragonbreak. It would literally be like the three pieces of the tri-force joining once again into one. Awesome first video. Excited for what is to come hopefully.

[@ember3032]

Something I noticed just by accident kind of, that can probably be ignored as a case of "it just looks cool and doesn't mean anything" is the runes/markings on Twili people from Twilight Princess looks very similar to those of the ones on the Zonai arm, but that probably doesn't mean anything.

[@TheAdventGamer]

Similar color scheme too.

[@Colt-TV]

While not canonical according to its own writer, I did find that the Twili Usurpers arm in the TP Manga bears a stunning resemblance to this Raurus arm. Perhaps he and Mineru are the last of their kind because they sealed the others away in the Twilight Realm? Edit ** Just to add, Raurus 3rd eye and tear shape on his nose combined make the sheika emblem, so maybe some of the zonai are bad (first twili) and are sent to the twilight realm, some escape (Yiga), and others form under rauru as the sheika (this would also explain why future "Hylian-Sheika" have a proficiency in magic but reg Hylians dont). Being Zonai descendents also help the ancient sheika Tapestry hero and the armor you get, making him a Zonai. (Also pretty sure Zonai are shape shifters, given that rauru appears as both a man and an owl in later games). Also fun fact, in the manga with the arm ( seen on pg1) TPM Link in ch7/8 has his left arm cut off (being left handed in TP for GC) and he is saved/healed by one of the 4 spirits of light, the goat spirit Ordona. Thought was neat given Raurus sage power and appearance in this game along with Links injury

[@GlowColourNails]

honestly dont, i was so really for the twilight to be the zonai and TP to be brought into this game but sadly no (Nintendo knew what they were doing when they designed the zonai colours and patterns hell the twilight palace even has snakes and serpants i dont understand why they designed them so similarly if they arnt connected)

[@TiredMoonRabbit]

The zoni also sound alt like the wind tribe mentioned in the minish cap.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

Yeah... I saw some similarities between "an ancient savage tribe" (zonai) and other mentions of old tribes from other games. Im not a fan of TotK retconning that or at least giving us the impression that the Zonai were in fact not savage or barbaric like it was hinted at in BotW. So there will be a TotK rewrite video and that will be a factor

[@emilioboyer4170]

At first I thought that TOTK was a simple retcon of the series (and in Nintendo's eyes it may as well be), but I really like the concept of Dragonbreak since it gives value to past events instead of throwing everything into a weird "era of legends". I think your solution gives importance to Zelda games prior to Tears. Very nice video through and through!

[@GameCyborgCh]

one thing that's a bit odd is this. King Rauru and queen Sonia founded Hyrule and became their first king and queen, Sonia was killed by Ganondorf and Rauru sacrificed his life to seal him. Unless they already had kids before Zelda traveled back in time the royal lineage would just end with the imprisoning war

[@ZAND4TSU]

That's what came in my mind after Sonia's death...

[@Jerjoker007]

I know he presented the fact that there will always be a zelda sent back in time but if we could present the events another way it could explain it. Queen Sonia does dies when Zelda is sent back, but what would happened if she’s not in the past? Ganondorf is always meant to be sealed by Rauru, but without zelda my guess is it took longer for him to get a secret stone allowing for the queen and king to have an offspring. Or everything I’m saying is total crap and I don’t know anything.

[@paulhausman6137]

I think they must’ve had a kid and the game just never showed it. It’s not like their child would’ve been a necessary memory for link to find.

[@mrbiscuits001]

They had kids. I can confirm because I’m actually their kid.

[@ZAND4TSU]

@@mrbiscuits001 no way :()

[@keaton52257]

The Imprisoning War (the past in Tears of the Kingdom) takes place before the downfall timeline; it is implied that the Zonai were present after the hero of time is defeated and before a Link to the Past.

[@aleximine_snep]

I have a really extensive theory about this, where there's a fourth timeline alongside the three widely accepted ones. The current "Downfall" timeline would be the Adult downfall, where Link is defeated after opening the Sacred Realm. However, had Link been defeated in say... the first dungeon, for example. The only major difference in this timeline would be Zelda being an infant, or Rauru and Sonia's child being a prince rather than a princess. In TotK, Rauru and Sonia are ancestors of Zelda, however have not heard the name before. Sonia would have had to have a child before she was killed. One of the Tear cutscenes shows almost exactly what happens in OoT, where Ganondorf pretends to pledge loyalty to the rulers of Hyrule. Ganondorf, in every other Zelda game, has been the same entity as in Oot, and further evidence it is the same ganondorf as in Oot is the existance of Twinrova in TotK's cutscenes. You never see the rulers of hyrule in OoT, to my knowledge, they could have been Rauru and Sonia. had Zelda not warned someone about Ganondorf's plot, and without the Sacred Realm open, Ganondorf would have to kill the current rulers the old fashioned way. Afterwards, in the other three timelines, Ganondorf is sealed in all three by the sages. In TP, it was in the Twilight Realm, so the Imprisoning War would have to be after the timeline split; meaning it's outcome would be affected by the alternate events.

[@aceofaces0007]

It's certainly an interesting theory, but what I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is the notion of Zelda changing realities when she travels back in time at the start of TotK. There can be two instances of Zelda and the Master Sword simultaneously based purely on the usage of time travel without there being a traversal from one reality to another. A very good comparison would be Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban since you have Harry and Hermione both existing in the background while their past selves go through certain events, and they operate behind the scenes to ensure certain outcomes occur, creating a causality loop that ends with Harry and Hermione returning to the Infirmary just as they're leaving for the past, all without any suggestion of an alternate reality being created (or if it was created, we the audience never see it). Another example being in Futurama where Fry goes back to the past and becomes his own grandfather by sleeping with his grandmother, all without changing reality at all because it's part of the same universe (and that show already explored the concept of the multiverse in other episodes). The same is true for Zelda and the Master Sword existing in the background during the events of both BotW and TotK. Zelda's time travel does not necessarily suggest her traveling to alternate time lines. However, I do think this theory does open up an interesting potential for Nintendo to formally close the dragon break by having a prequel game detailing the arrival of the Zonai and the Sacred Stones, and the creation of the Hyrule Kingdom, or more accurately "New Hyrule" since Hyrule Kingdom already existed in the various time lines. For this convergence of time lines to occur though, something must have happened that resulted in Old Hyrule being destroyed in every time line, and the Zonai to emerge from the heavens in every time line to rebuild. Perhaps then this prequel game would involve all iterations of Zelda in each time line using their power as the Sage of Time, in conjunction with the combined power of 3 sets of Triforce (one from each time line) to wipe the slate clean and converge time either with the aid of the Zonai, or to empower the Zonai to form New Hyrule with the power of the Sacred Stones when all is said and done. Then again, given how Nintendo isn't really all that interested in rectifying the various Zelda timelines, and has just kinda hand-waved things to say BotW and TotK occur at the end of all timelines, without further explanation, they may not be all that interested in formally closing the dragon break.

[@comatosesage7232]

A fun idea I like to think about is the fact that dragons are canonically immortal and considered divine in the Zelda series, meaning the dragon forms of Zelda and Ganon are as close to their origins as Hylia and Demise as they have ever been. It’s entirely possible that Link failing to kill dragon Ganon is the catalyst for the events of skyward sword perpetuating the cycle unendingly.

[@SingABrightSong]

Has been my theory since BotW, TotK largely confirms it. Will note that even before the timeline merger, all three timelines have parallel histories: Ganon is imprisoned by the Six Sages, breaks free, and is imprisoned again but harder this time, until finally breaking free entirely just in time to get wrecked by a new Link and Zelda. All these are collated with the merged timeline into the Imprisoning War of ToTK, and the unification of Hyrule by King Rauru is the retroactive version of the Hyrulean Civil War in the backstory of OoT.

[@Manny13840]

Yep, I also believed that it is a merged timeline

[@HaiImKush]

Makes sense they never found the 7th sage like in Oot of course Ganon or Ganondorf will break free...

[@joshwilcox5521]

I like how the Zelda loop is basically a recursive function call without a return statement.

[@aegisxor]

It's an interesting theory, but I don't think it's necessary to say that there are multiple instances of BOTW Zelda. I think the bootstrap paradox is already enough on its own - when you look at Skyward Sword's time travel, it works very similarly. The amber crystal in the Sealed Temple is visible from the first time Link visits the location in his personal chronology, even though its existence isn't caused until certain future actions of that same Link come to pass. Similarly, the fact that Ganondorf already knows Zelda's name before she first travels to the past from her perspective means that those events always had to have occurred, and nothing was actually changed as a result of the time travel. 3:47 Slight correction also, Zelda sending Link back in time can only happen after Link defeats Ganondorf. So Child branches from Adult at the earliest point, Downfall branches from Adult during the final battle, and Zelda sending Link back in time happens after Link is successful in the Adult timeline. Because the Child and Downfall timelines each depend on events occurring in the Adult timeline, it also follows that the Adult timeline is the "original" version of events. Interestingly, this means that OoT Zelda's interference with time actually works differently than time travel in SS/TOTK: as far as I know, there is no required intervention by time travel required for the original events of the Adult timeline to have occurred. Zelda's use of the ocarina makes irreconcilable changes in the past, rather than facilitating events that were predestined all along.

[@SAWFD1413]

to add to the skyward part, notice the life fruit tree....& Groose's reaction to it.

[@radiofloyd2359]

There have to be multiple instances of Zelda, or at least you have to represent the timeline as there being multiple instances of the character. If the dragon isn't flying when Zelda is born, then the mastersword can't be recovered. Likewise, if Zelda isn't born, then she can't be saved in BOTW. Both have to exist simultaneously.

[@1107Archangel]

@@radiofloyd2359 to me I feel like Zelda changes the cycle every time she goes back, last time she most likely died or lived out her life in the past and relied on technology to seal the calamity hence the prophecy we get for botw, but it was only this cycle she changed the plan up to the events of totk, after seeing technology almost doomed them over saving them, she's basically changing the game to improve from her past cycles mistakes, and that's why it's not till when she poofs away sky islands become visible since her travelling back has now changed the present, in the far past they probably still got to the point they floated away but probably more in line with mineru removing zonai influence from the world before she died as she felt zonai where to blame, least it's what I think, you can uncover the mural from the start before fighting the OG and see the events she acts out in becoming the dragon but there's no real way to know if that is what the actual mural is before awakening ganondorf and she goes back, would make for a cool twist if they add a ng+ and you can use a weapon or bomb to see a different set of end panels on the mural.

[@aegisxor]

@@radiofloyd2359 But they're not different copies of Zelda, they're the same exact Zelda. The paradoxical part is that her future self traveling to the distant past is prerequisite to the events leading to her eventual birth. It would be one Zelda, whose personal timeline looks like it makes a loop.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

It's crazy how the ending of Ocarina of Time really does lend itself to the timeline split, at least for the "Adult" and "Child" branches, because the final scene shows the Child timeline being established, but obviously something has to happen to the Zelda that just sealed Ganon seven years in the future, assuming they didn't intend for us to believe that those events got erased by virtue of Link preventing them. Regardless, this game is the first one to end with Link travelling through time, it makes sense that it would create alternate timelines, because each game before Ocarina had a single, definitive ending in a single, definitive timeframe. Ocarina has two, so it's only logical that there are two continuities that got continued in future games. I do wish that there was more cohesion between the games, however. Since A Link to the Past came out before Ocarina of Time but takes place in the "Fallen" timeline, there's nothing tying them together. Plus Zelda 1 and 2 being the last games in that timeline feels random, as do either of the Four Swords/Minish Cap, like what significance do they have in their respective timelines? The 3D games and DS games handle the story the best, I think. Spirit Tracks really shows the aftermath of the world as seen in the Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess only makes sense in a world where the flood never happened. The Adult timeline has no Link anymore, so there's no hero when Ganon breaks from his seal, therefore the flood happens. The Child timeline *does* have a hero when this happens, so no flood. It works. I would even go as far as to say that the events that caused the flood are what in an alternate timeline would be Twilight Princess. Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom don't contradict Skyward Sword any more than Skyward Sword contradicts Skyward Sword. We can see that the surface already has an ancient history with technology, the Temple of Time, and the literal Hylian royal crest. This is where Skyward Sword sort of fails as a prequel, because we don't see any of this get established. Its biggest contributions to the canon are the existence of Fi and Demise's curse. Otherwise, we don't see the establishment of Hyrule or an explanation for most things left ambiguous by previous games. However, the fact that Link and Zelda are the ancient figures as told by legends through paradox is cool. Them being the first Zelda and Link duo is logically sound. Anyway, Rauru being the "first King of Hyrule" could mean anything. Could be the King of the ancient surface before Demise, could be the first King of a newly-established Hyrule as in Spirit Tracks.

[@wizcatcheslightning]

A Link to the Past happens because of Link dying in the final battle of OOT. That’s what leads to the first Imprisoning War we learn about

[@mentholnewport]

" assuming they didn't intend for us to believe that those events got erased by virtue of Link preventing them." that's what happened though? You're treating all of it as one timeline. Link warning her of Ganon stops the events of ocarina of time. But only in the child timeline. The adult and child timeliness exist simultaneously. This MUST be the case or else link warning Zelda would instantly erase him, as a Link with that knowledge could not exist in a world where Ganon didn't fight adult Link. So Link warning child Zelda has no effect on the Adult Zelda of Ocarina. Also Rauru must be post SS and Demise as Sonia is a descendent of SS Zelda

[@-Zechariot]

@@mentholnewport We don't really know if Sonia is a descendant, do we

[@mentholnewport]

@@-Zechariot yes, we do

[@-Zechariot]

@captain4761 where is it said?

[@Chamassa1210]

What I really like about this theory is that it explains the existence of both rito and Zora, which made absolutely no sense in botw, since they were either Zora or rito in the three timelines

[@OOFUS4103]

I like the theory of the rito and zora always coexisting in all 3 timelines, and once a rito and a zora fell in love and had a child (we see zoras and hylians also falling in love, so why couldn’t other races do the same?) in the adult timeline.

[@RCC_1]

It's a fantasy game and Nintendo knows it. The moment the temporal coherence starts to hinder the game they forget about it.

[@mattoverminder]

I like this theory. I've always been a proponent of the merged timeline for BOTW, and this helps fit it together nicely. (I'm also a huge Elder Scrolls lore nerd.) I want to add that in regards to your theory that the merged timeline "remembers" a unified past, that I think that the long period of tens of thousands of years in the interim plays into this. That the majority of Hyrule specifically don't remember at all. It's largely all been lost to history, which makes the paradox easier for mere mortals to swallow, so to speak.

[@ChampiVenao]

The fact that i knew what they meant just by mentioning the dragon break shahshshd I'm also a big TES nerd

[@SomeNewGuy]

I think that this also explains the strange absence of the Triforce in BOTW and TOTK. The Triforce is only reference in the Hylian Shield, a few statues found in Hyrule castle, the Royal Family's crest, and in Zonai clothing. Everywhere else it's never seen or mentioned. It did exist at one point, but since the timeline has been so thoroughly thrashed with time travel shenanigans it was forgotten by all except those within the royal family, namely scholars, or was written out of existence.

[@aureateseigneur5317]

Why does everyone seem to forget Zelda Summons the Triforce to wipe out Calamity Ganon?

[@acsound]

@@aureateseigneur5317 My headcanon is that BotW/TotK Zelda (along w/her mother and grandmother: both also named "Zelda" per the ancient tradition) is from a Hyrule royal lineage where the TRIFORCE stays w/n any given Zelda. This lineage started w/the Zelda that used the full Triforce (called the "sealing power"), as she was born w/it fully w/n her. This happened as a result of Ganon/dorf's multiple defeats w/n all three timelines, where each iteration of Ganon/dorf loses control of the Triforce: to Link and Zelda. Once TotK-past!Ganondorf is sealed below Hyrule Castle, and his Malice/Gloom agent Calamity Ganon was sealed away 10K years before BotW, the Triforce remains w/n Zelda forever. No more Triforce splits. Basically, BotW/TotK!Zelda's "sealing power" *is* the Triforce, and at the start of TotK, that sealing power leaked into the clear tear-stone, turning it gold (and denoting BotW/TotK!Zelda -- like OoT!Zelda (aka "Sheik") as a Sage of Time); she traveled back in time to close the loop and complete the "terminus".

[@1107Archangel]

@@aureateseigneur5317 we don't know if that was the actual tri force, the tri force is just associated with light is what it felt like to me after all the tri force is more like a wish granter then a battery of power to hold onto if she did actually have it at any point she could have simply wished ganon in botw, or ganondorf in totk away, much like skyward sword link wishes demise as the imprisoned away just by touching it, she'd be the single most powerful being in hyrule, she could tho have a piece of it as the royal family seems to always since after ocarina hold the fragment of wisdom.

[@aureateseigneur5317]

@@1107Archangel I saw it, with my own eyes. All 3 triangles, physically in front of her, spewing light. Nothing presented by the game hints its just light, or just a figment. She forms all 3 Triangles and then physically manifests it in front of herself to destroy Calamity Ganon. If I cant trust my eyes then I cant trust anything.

[@1107Archangel]

@@aureateseigneur5317 you see it represented yes but in every 3D game with the triforce it is a hefty thick object, such as wind waker for example, but when she uses her sealing powers it is a flat image more like a symbol like she is using power possibly from the triforce that her line could have gained from its prior use, but since the triforce is a physical object when united, it'd be very odd that she'd not know a huge triangle was put inside her or passed down her family line, totk seems to hint at the same if her light power was the triforce itself and her light power is from being descended from rauru, why didn't rauru a basically godlike being use the triforce to poof ganondorf away as he would have had it to have his light powers.

[@clemz110]

I have my own interpretation at this: the time was split so the goddesses sent their envoys (zonai) to fix it under the guise of "creating the kingdom of hyrule". As we know in the events of TotK(past) Rauru found someone with time powers(as the stones only amplify their powers) Sonia. This could mean that Sonia is both Zelda's successor and predecessor as sage of time and the timeline was fixed by divine intervention rather than causality.

[@Blue-fg8vt]

It would also make sense on how the zonai died out, cause it's kinda weird for their to be only two people left without a why.

[@faderkorall5481]

how does this not have more views? what a great video. this is cannon to me rn lol

[@waddlehi]

I really think people are too hung up on the lines about the zonai "founding" Hyrule. Nintendo stated that the new games take place so far in the future everything from the previous games is only known as myth and suddenly having plot taking place before skyward sword seems contrary to their design philosophy. As well as the cutscenes of the past sharing the same hyrule as breath of the wild it most likely that hyrule was created by skyward sword link and zelda, the timeline plays out until very very far into the future when nobody remembers hyrule, the zonai come in and found a new kingdom of hyrule believing to be the first as there was no record of it before. It just feels neater to slip in the past from tears of the kingdom way after the final games from the other timelines where they converge. Creating new timelines or splits just to slip tears of the kingdom before skyward sword is needlessly complicated.

[@Mishkobt]

It’s supposedly so far ahead but it still shows a Ganondorf origin as a Gerudo King

[@UltimateTobi]

Those are also my thoughts. The Era of Myth is just far enough in the past that there are no records of past kingdoms and the Zonai come down and believe themselves to be the first founders. The only elements of the Era of Myth (SS to all three timelines) are word of mouth stories (like Zelda citing various heroes) and artifacts such as clothing items and descriptions/inscriptions. Which is fine by me. Trying to put TotK's past before or after SS simply retconns every game and what would be the point of that? Especially in light of SS being made explicity to give all other Zelda games some more background lore and continuity. I don't think they'd churn out BotW and TotK to undo that. Undoing the majority of your lore and continuity wouldn't be good anyway, especially since they draw inspiration from their hardcore fanbase that theorize about everything.

[@linkmaster647]

Personally, I'd believe more if that past was either: before Skyward Sword: because at the beggining of Skyward Sword it says that a war took place but result of said war ended as a stalemate and the demon king got sealed not only that but the game seems to point out more references to Skyward Sword: sky islands, the master sword communicating (even to using the sound effects Fi used back then), how Ganon or rather, the demon king oddly ressembles Demise... or DIRECTLY after Skyward Sword: ok again with the point that he's the first king of Hyrule, and I say after Skyward Sword because the people of the sky didn't knew about the lands, only after the first Link puts in the stone tablets paths to the land are revealed... as well as if as they said Tears (past) would be joining all 3 timelines then... Rauru being the first king wouldn't be right either because other kings ruled in the past (ex: king Daphnes), I think it's pretty well said that Rauru and Sonia FOUNDED Hyrule...

[@UltimateTobi]

@@linkmaster647 1. So Demise is Ganondorf? I think if they wanted to drive home the point that TotK's past is the war before SS, they'd have made Ganondorf look even more Demise-y during the Imprisoning War. He does look demonic, but also still very much like Ganondorf. 2. You'd believe yourself to be the first king if there're no prior records of a kingdom. So TotK's past being very far in the future is not ruled out by that circumstance.

[@linkmaster647]

@@UltimateTobi Would just to add this: the Zonai tribe... they are said to be connected to the goddess in some sort of way, mysteriously dissapeared and was technologically advanced which just reminds me... they have constructs to help them in thier daily lives, which reminds me of the Lanayru region Skyward Sword, robots in a past era and technological too... as well as the time shifting stones... that could be a connection

[@1000shadowmario]

This makes alot of sense. Like we've seen the kingdom of Hyrule's end multiple times in the past as even in the adult timeline we seen them rebuild the kingdom on new land. So with that in mind, the past of TotK was the Hyrulians rebuilding their kingdom and the Zonai turned up to help them after all the other games that happened. And then everything you said about Dragonbreak happened when Zelda went back in time as a Sage of Time.

[@Link-ik4ww]

What an awesome theory, connects so many dots, excited to see future content from you ✌🏻

[@Doc202]

That's a damn good theory! Looking forward to seeing what else you can pick apart in other zelda titles if that's the way you're gonna go, keep it up

[@seth6598]

One thing I don’t understand is where the light dragon is in botw. I’d like to think she sealed herself off in the depths and came back out after the upheaval. I also think her subconscious mind had her travel around all of the towers because she knew link would be visiting them for travel. This just makes sense to me.

[@MuffinsAPlenty]

I would go with "above the clouds". I'm pretty sure that when you are doing the Great Sky Island tutorial in TotK, the Light Dragon is always flying around near the Great Sky Island. And in order to prevent you from getting to Hyrule before completing the tutorial section of the game, there is a cloud barrier beneath the Great Sky Island. (The idea of a cloud barrier separating the sky from the surface - even visually - has been used before in the Zelda series.) Right after the Master Sword goes back in time, the Light Dragon pushes through the cloud barrier and opens it up, allowing you to travel between the sky islands and the surface. It's also worth noting that, in BotW, the three dragons disappear by going above the clouds, showing that the clouds really would hide a dragon above them.

[@seth6598]

@@MuffinsAPlenty that’s a neat theory too. I didn’t think about that. That also explains why the sky island weren’t visible during botw. I really hope they make another Hyrule warriors spin-off called Hyrule warriors: age of imprisonment or the imprisoning war. That could give us some more insight on what happened.

[@NeoRetroX]

The upheaval changed the entire world, the dragon does not exist until the upheaval :)

[@seth6598]

@@NeoRetroX it exists in the past so it couldn’t have just vanished until the upheaval.

[@hyper_lynx]

@@MuffinsAPlenty This is even directly supported in BotW, with the dragons disappearing into strange portals at the maximum reachable height in the sky when they fly away for the day.

[@Detrevnl23]

this video has the quality of a larger youtuber. if you keep making videos with this same quality, your channel will grow substantially because this video was genuinely enjoyable to watch. advice for later, prepare for immense channel growth.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

This is my favourite comment! This gives me hope

[@bluecheckmiya]

The theory of the other games being legends doesnt disrespect them and makes the most sense. I think it’s quite clear that’s what they’re going for especially because they have said as much. That the other games are legends as of BOTW with how far away it is from the other events.

[@loraineniemi5285]

I think you explained this perfectly! My brain was seriously melting trying to figure all the timelines! Thank you for taking the time !

[@Houndlock643]

This still doesn’t take into account the fact that Zelda travels to the past when the Kingdom of Hyrule was supposedly founded. (Before Ocarina; supposedly) If we are to assume that Link and Zelda from Skyward Sword were the ones that founded Hyrule, then the current story as it is makes no sense; Dragonbreak or otherwise, because why would we need Rarru and Sonia? I think that this IS a part of the timeline. But not in the way that we’d expect. I believe that this is a sort of parallel timeline in which everything that occurred in the original timeline has happened in this timeline, just with different outcomes. There is a timeline split earlier on than we realize in the time line that hasn’t been properly explored yet. One way before the events of Ocarina of Time. This one takes place in Skyward Sword near its climax. In the present; Link defeats the Imprisoned Demise by dropping the sky island on it; crushing it to death. Girahim then steals Zelda and travels back to the past to summon Demise with Zelda’s power. Demise is successfully reawakened in the past and freed from his imprisoned form. Link then defeats Demise; in which he curses Link with the famous curse, and then Link returns to the Present to found the Kingdom of Hyrule. HOWEVER. It is not the Present time that takes the point of interest, but rather the Past time, because in both; Demise is defeated, but because Demise was defeated in the past time, there’s no Skyward Sword. No hero to show up. Nothing. This is the timeline split I wanted to look at and I believe that Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom belong to this timeline. The one where Demise was defeated in the past and the curse of Demise was never an intrinsic part of it, because Link went back to the present timeline, where the curse would’ve followed and did what it did.

[@Houndlock643]

I think I worded this better on another video. I hope this makes sense.

[@Houndlock643]

(The other thing that I wanted to add is that the reason why I think this is the case is because the main crux of Tears of the Kingdom’s plot is the Imprisoning War; which, if I know my Zelda lore correctly, is the events of Ocarina of Time. However, in TotK, said events are different, though it leads to a similar outcome, and similar events do take place, it’s just still different.)

[@gektoast4968]

That would mean ocarina of time would’ve had to happen and repeat its timeline split though- the events of ocarina of time are explicitly confirmed and stated in TOTK.

[@MuljoStpho]

As I recall from discussions about it when that game was new, the devs intentions with Demise's double defeat seems to be that it's all part of a loop and nothing was ever actually changed. Demise's body was destroyed, Demise's mind was sucked into the sword to be eroded over time by the sword's power, and some remnant of Demise's power remained behind and was sealed away off-screen by Impa where it festered and grew until it tried to escape in SS's present day as that weird mindless beast that we fought a few times. In the present day, Link's wish obliterates as much as possible of what remains of Demise's power and strengthens the seal on whatever is left after that by making the Hylia statue a part of the seal. The world that Link and Zelda and everyone else in that game grew up in is one in which all of the game's time travel shenanigans had already happened. It always did feel odd and like it should have made things complicated, though.

[@Houndlock643]

I found more proof of my claims: the exsistence of the Goddess Sword in TotK. How can the Goddess Sword AND the Master Sword exist at the same time IF THEYRE BOTH CANONICALLY THE SAME SWORD? Unless Link never drew the Goddess Sword in the past timeline where Future Link defeated Demise in the past.

[@arcanine_enjoyer]

Before tears of the kingdom, I always imagined that all the games happened, but because of the passing down of legends and all, the stories become warped and what we got in the games is that "passed down" legend. It's a way to explain the existence of things like Majora's Mask, and the names of many landmarks. But the idea that this split in the timeline makes sense because of a dragonbreak is also a quite possible theory. I do hope they go back and add more games to each of the timelines, since I would love a continuation of the Adult and Child timeline

[@EFPX]

All you had to say was "Crazy Triforce magic and Zelda time sage powers" and I'd have been sold

[@SupremeDirt]

i feel this is also supported by tears itself, seeing as we can find "relics" that should only exist in one of each of the timelines.

[@Oldskoola]

Can you explain this? The tears are vessels for the memories. Where do you see their belonging to either one of the three timelines?

[@kendricklyon9633]

This timeline put-together actually looks good

[@kirrukie9845]

I really love this explanation. I was trying to figure out how to put it all together but this makes sense and is very well explained. great video!! :)

[@NotsilYmerej]

Another way to understand the merging timelines is that the major events of each timeline would be seen by people in different regions. The child timeline has Hyrule remain where it is; by the end of the downfall timeline, Hyrule proper has been abandoned, and the Kingdom has been moved north; and in the adult timeline, a New Hyrule was established somewhere far away.

[@SnugNap]

I can't believe someone else thought of the dragon break like I did for the Zelda timeline

[@denkoumasato]

I actually really like this concept. While playing through TotK, my headcannon started formulating this other theory: "What if the beginning of the timeline started with the Goddess Hylia - In order to be more effective/efficient at creating Hyrule and the world in general, she split herself into 3 beings: Din, Farore, and Nayru. These goddesses did their thing as we see in OoT, and then "left" leaving behind the TriForce (be it a byproduct/accident of their power or intentional I'm not sure). Them "leaving" is the interesting part, because for 1) We don't know that they were Human/Hylian for sure. We never really see their faces/humanoid forms IIRC. 2) Which means, those three dragons we see in BotW/TotK, if you recall they have Zonai ears, which means that the goddesses perhaps just became the dragons (thus the near identical names which can be a product of "telephone/hearsay" throughout thousands of years of passing down). I think several things (though not all) can be explained using the telephone concept. When you pass down legends and stories and even written history from person to person, generation to generation, some details can be altered. Like Zora/Rito, or the goddess names (or the fact that they and Hylia were one and the same), or even the fact that Ganon/Ganondorf/Demise are all the same "malevolent entity". The Legend of Zelda is a story of reincarnation. The Demon King, Demise as he was known back then by nickname, Ganondorf by birth, cursed the land as his final act and in doing so, brought his rage back in reincarnate form time and again as we see in the other games as Ganon/Ganondorf. But, through the TriForce/Goddesses, as a counter-measure, so too were Zelda and Link brought back time and again reincarnated to stop that evil, since all three possess 1/3 of the TriForce in their spirits. One final (unconnected thought): At first I thought they were going to lean into a really cool concept which I kind of hope they do in the future - When the game opens you play as Link, but there was a brief moment when it almost seemed like they were going to pass the control over to Zelda, and my initial thought was "Oh my gosh. What if the whole game is ACTUALLY playing as Zelda?" (and then when you gain control of Zelda the title screen would come up, with a nod/emphasis on The Legend of ZELDA, and you would actually be playing the game as her for once. Just a thought, I do love my Link though. I'm a guy but I honestly wouldn't mind getting to play as Zelda for a change.

[@blueking6996]

The legend of Zelda: Zelda finds a gun

[@LadyKhione]

So out of curiosity, are you refuting the cannon that it was the 3 golden godesses Din, Farore, and Nayru that created the world, and that when the left they entrusted Hylia with guarding the tri-force. Hylia didn't create the world, she was just left as the guardian after the 3 golden goddesses left. I think a theory that the leaving of hte godesses is up to interpretation is fine but they came first, not Hylia

[@RCC_1]

Too sad TOTK never really cared about its story. It presented everything in the first hour and then nothing happens until the very end of the game. No progression and no development. The flashbacks barely add anything new. So many plot points were left underdeveloped or unresolved. We can only speculate without any strong ground. All theories because TOTK really didn't add anything new to the mix.

[@oe98]

I really like this video. There's just one thing I want to talk about, and that's why there is a three-fold fork in the timeline. In the video you said it had to do with the Triforce, which I think is partially correct. However, I think the real reason is that each timeline has one of the three bearers of the Triforce. At the end of Ocarina of Time, the child timeline has Link (but not the Zelda or Ganon from the fight on top Hyrule Castle), while the adult timeline has Zelda (with Ganon sealed away effectively dead), whereas the downfall timeline has Ganon. If Ganon is victorious at the fight on top of Hyrule Castle, then he'd end up killing both in order to attain the Triforce. My theory is basically that Zelda must help Link in order for Ganon to be defeated, and if she dies before helping Link in that battle then Link's doomed to lose.

[@cencent2189]

I like it! My thoughts always was "it's a legend it changes depending on the people telling it" but this convinced me that it all could have happened

[@romano-britishmedli7407]

Your video, together with Wiz Catches Lightning's video, restored my faith in theorizing about the timeline after TotK. I thank you very much for that. Your reasoning sounds very logical, and has convinced me that BotW and TotK play long after the other games and the 3 timelines, in a new iteration of the Kingdom of Hyrule. It avoids most of the logical inconsistencies and contradictions, and keeps theorizing fun and meaningful. I love this interpretation!

[@MsJeffreyF]

What about Rauru being surprised when Zelda says she's from the Kingdom of Hyrule and Rauru saying that they just established that kingdom? In this theory, what's going on with the kingdom before the dragonbreak ends? Wouldn't Rauru or Sonia know of this older kingdom?

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

TotK Zelda is from the future Hyrule Kingdom that Rauru started. He's confused because he just started it so how can someone else say they belong to it. Before the dragon break there's the 3 split timelines, after dragon break history back to ocarina retcons into a single combined timeline, one where at the end near where Zelda appears, the Zonai showed up and Rauru started the kingdom. He didn't start the first kingdom, he just wouldn't know there was others before in the past

[@maxschulz6185]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 This point is the one that confuses me. The kingdom of OoT and the one just founded in tears. Is the OoT kingdom basically the sheika civilization that got wiped out at some point (with the guardians etc.), then after them came the zonai, founded the new kingdom and time moved on with breath and tears? Doesnt explain tho why the citadel of time was in the air. Did the OoT kingdom reset their kingdom and moved everything back into the air -> Skyward sword style? After that from whom or whatever came the zonai to start the new kingdom? I swear these time travel themed games are always a headache :D

[@tytyh]

This is mostly what I was thinking to. Totk doesnt really fit before ocarina of time. It doesn't make any sense for gannondorf to reincarnate when he's not dead lol. I feel like we just need clarification on what happened to the old timelines versions of the kingdom of hyrule. Why did hyrule need to be created by rauru if it already existed before he and sonia created it. I feel like there was some sort of apocalyptic event that unified the timelines and blasted hylians back to the stone age before the zonai showed up to fix things with they're god like power or maybe the zonai caused the event that collapsed the timeline. Honestly im fine if this is just a brand new continuity and the past games are just legends of a bygone age as long as we keep the timeline in one piece from here on out.

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

Yeah it gets kind of messy if you go with my theory because after the dragonbreak the past wouldnt look like 3 timelines it would look like 1 combined one where everything happened. We have no possible way of knowing what that combined timeline would look like but you could guess that maybe hyrule floods like in windwaker and maybe after that is when the zonai showed up and "found" hyrule. I dont know, I dont think Nintendo really had a plan for the story considering they retconned all the Zonai lore from BotW

[@TheRock3tDoctor]

I think that maybe when the timelines collided; the different elements of each fought with each other since they didn’t know what was happening or what these things were. This could cause the fall of hyrule and then the zonai descend to re-found it

[@oniwolfin9589]

@@TheRock3tDoctor our only issue would then be that Sonia and Rauru are surprised that a princess of Hyrule could exist.

[@TheRock3tDoctor]

@@oniwolfin9589 true, but at the same time it could be that such long time has passed that someone being a princess would be impossible, nobody could be alive from that original era. Alternatively, they aren’t even aware of the original hyrule, and simply named it that because they believed in Hylia, just like the original founding Could be these reasons or something else entirely, I just doubt it’s a reboot

[@oniwolfin9589]

@@TheRock3tDoctor no, I agree with you, I absolutely believe in a convergence theory, and you cant expect that 3 timelines crashing back into one another wouldn't cause some great damage to what people thought was normal. I was just playing devils advocate, due to the fact that I want to (as best we can) can hammer out a decent theory so that I can use that as a basis for a dnd campaign I'm running, I got about half way through writing a dnd world based on botw, before they announced totk, and now I feel like I want to use as much official lore and as much fan popular theory as possible. Another theory that I have is that changes to the world are still happening, and that items, people and events are still re-writing themselves to match up to this one continuity now.

[@divinedemonj]

This is up there with Legacy of Kain’s time chicanery. “History abhors a paradox”

[@jaediety]

I like this theory simply because it allows Nintendo to start over with zelda's timeline and just make it more straight forward from this point on. or if they wanted to, say fuck it and make another game somewhere in the middle of the timeline split, maybe in the form of the 2D style Zelda games. it's kind of a new beginning, which is symbolic of what BotW and TotK are as games; a reimagining of Zelda's gameplay. it's a new era for Zelda.

[@Gnidel]

I dislike it BECAUSE it allows Nintendo to start over with the timeline. Which just generates more issues with timelines instead of building on decades of history.

[@TheDeanofLean]

​@@Gnidel There's nothing preventing them from adding in more games that build off of prior titles. Botw/Totk already have that "so far into the future" slapped onto them that you could put an infinite number of games set beforehand.

[@jaediety]

@@Gnidel yea they could easily fill in a ton of missing blanks in the split timelines by making different games set during those times. that's why it's great. they get to both make a more straight forward story for Zelda, and continue to build on the preexisting timelines if they wish. that was my point lol. totk doesn't make the existing timelines irrelevant, it just puts everything they established separately, into one big package.

[@kraybss6125]

Only kinda concern and gripe I have with totk is that it dosent mention the triforce or the goddess hylia like at all, maybe saved for dlc?

[@tangerino3199]

Hylia is mentioned all the time, but as far as the triforce goes I think the Era of Myth was so far back in the past by the events of these games that it no longer exists as an actual physical artifact and is now more of a general religious symbol like the Christian cross IRL. We still see it invoked when Zelda uses her sacred power to seal Calamity Ganon

[@voidlockdragon1406]

From what I gathered from the video is that ultimately Zelda from TOTK unknowingly closed the other 3 timelines and combined them back into a singular timeline that has elements of the other timelines. If we want to go further, Goddess Hylia true power was always the ability to manipulate time to protect Hyrule from those who would abuse the Triforce. When Ganondorf tried to get the Triforce, the power was split into 3 pieces and given to Link and Zelda to prevent one being to have the Triforce. I believe that the 3 timelines are based on the 3 aspects of the Triforce like in the video. Because of how close Ganondorf was to having the Triforce, I think Goddess Hylia influenced Zelda as the Sage of Time to split the Zelda timeline to keep the three pieces of the Triforce seperated temporarily in 3 plausible seperate timelines. Evetually, over time the 3 pieces will converge back into the full Triforce and bring prosperity back to Hyrule. Ever since the Triforce split, Hyrule has been in the dark/middle ages and hasnt experienced a Golden Age since its founding. TOTK closed the 3 timelines and brought all three pieces back into a single timeline again. I think the next game for Zelda is to restore the Triforce and bring back Hyrule back to its true glory. Demise will probably be the main villain, just waiting for the chance to take the restored Triforce and one of the few beings left to actual know about the Triforce's existence.

[@manuelgarciajr5308]

I dont think Hylia would have the power to directly re arrange time. Influence? Without a doubt, but, directly mold a future? Nope. That's GG domain. Nayru specifically.

[@melodyofheaven3353]

I absolutely love this theory. The moment I started playing Tears of the Kingdom and seeing all the arguments over when it takes place in the timeline, especially people going “omg they retconned skyward sword since the Zonai now founded Hyrule” my theory has always been it takes place after a merge of the 3 and is in the distant future of the merge, this video just helps me better explain it to people!

[@WonderfulAkari]

Princess Zelda existing at the same time as the light dragon is not a paradox.

[@Marz776]

5:50 I want to add a little explanation to why link coming back to the past doesn't erase the adult timeline, past can't be altered, and the future timeline is now link's past so it mist remain there because whatever happens now it doesn't affect that point in time, that's why it's represented as a branch in the timeline it can also be called a parallel universe that exists simultaneously

[@FranklinThe1]

So did hyrule as a kingdom also exist before Zelda appeared in the past? Does this mean that Rauru and Sonia didn't actually found hyrule for the first time?

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

(Copying this reply from another comment but) after the dragonbreak the past wouldnt look like 3 timelines it would look like 1 combined one where everything happened. We have no possible way of knowing what that combined timeline would look like but you could guess that maybe hyrule floods like in windwaker and maybe after that is when the zonai showed up and "found" hyrule.

[@FranklinThe1]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 hmm ok so they founded Hyrule but it’s not clear if they founded the first Hyrule?

[@thinkingatmaxvolume1992]

@@FranklinThe1 Right. Technically the land is Hyrule so maybe they just meant the first "kingdom" of hyrule because they didnt know that there used to be a kingdom before

[@FranklinThe1]

@@thinkingatmaxvolume1992 Ok nice

[@JermaineATL]

​​@@FranklinThe1e did say he was the first King though.

[@sodajesus8128]

I actually believe this is a Forbidden Timeline, basically this Ganondorf and Link never get the Triforce of Power and Courage so Ganondorf had gotten another source of power, and in BotW Zelda is the wielder of all three of them it is why she had been able to hold back the Calamity for 100 years. When reading some of the articles of clothing it says from another World, meaning this isn't truly the same Hyrule as Ocarina, Windwaker, and etc. It's a Parallel World of what could of happened differently. Cause this Ganondorf wasn't chosen as the wielder of the Triforce of Power, Link never got the Triforce of Courage, and so if following the theory.... The three dragon's may of been Hylian's or Zonai who transformed themselves into Immortal dragon's, either to go into an eternal sleep or been forced to battle something or someone I doubt it is Demise otherwise with the Master Sword breaking I'm sure he would of taken over the Mummified Ganondorf due to his mind being sealed within the sword. If you've played Skyward Sword you'd know Demise's mind is in the Master Sword it said "The Residue of Demise's mind is now sealed within the Master Sword." Sooo... It's a bunch of wild theories.

[@cosmicwire6356]

I like how when a timeline is “fixed” it still takes 20 minutes to explain, bringing up things like the grandfather paradox, Schrödinger’s cat, and dragonbreaks

[@mikemead7417]

I think you’re right, except when the timeline gets retconned. I believe it originally plays out as normal, and Tears of the Kingdom happens at the literal beginning, and ending of Hyrule. Skyward Sword thru Ocarina play out, and the timelines split, but the past of Tears of the Kingdom happens before Skyward Sword. Zelda going back would end the Dragonbreak, and put the world on one singular timeline. However, the events of the split still happen because the next Zelda has to remember the same events as the previous Zelda, as they are the same Zelda going back in time becoming the Light Dragon.

[@TheDeanofLean]

I don't know if the past of Totk happening before SS can work. You run into issues like there being two Ganondorfs/Gerudo males (explanation below) and Hyrule Castle being destroyed in Oot which should have broken the seal. If I'm remembering correctly, Creating a Champion implies there can only be one Gerudo male. It mentions a Gerudo male hasn't been born in ages, presumably because Ganondorf is still alive under the castle. If that is indeed the case then Oot Ganon couldn't be born because Totk Ganon is still alive.

[@elpopman2055]

Queen Sonia isa descendant of skyword zelda

[@mikemead7417]

@@TheDeanofLean that’s only if we are to imply that the magic of Demise does not exist. Demise could have easily seen the destruction the first Ganondorf caused, and forced a second birth of a male Gerudo, so he could house the power of himself inside that male. This implies that the first Ganondorf was his own entity completely, and the second was unknowingly subservient to the influence of demise. It could also have been where the transformation from Gerudo to demon king nullified his position as a Gerudo, thus starting the process over again. As soon as he took the secret stone for himself, he ceased being a Gerudo, transforming himself fully to the Demon King. The absence of that Gerudo could start the process over again as well.

[@mikemead7417]

@@TheDeanofLean also, if I remember correctly, it is not the destruction of the castle that breaks the seal. Rauru’s power is the seal, and Hyrule castle was built to keep it hidden. That castle did not exist in the past of Tears of the Kingdom. The palace of Hyrule in that time was housed in the forgotten temple. You can see Sonia’s burial site, as well as the room where the stones were kept. Also, in that scene where all the Molduga are attacking, it lines up perfectly with the outside of the Forgotten Temple.

[@buckluny4030]

Here's a funny question. - Minwu is the last Zonai. - Calamity gannon appears after the sealing war. - The Hero that defeats calamity gannon is a Zonai (see shrine reward combined with mural (blue (zonai) link with red hair) Calamity gannon has to be older then the Deamon king Gannondorf. Also it predates the "First king of Hyrule" The temple of time is also a really weird one, you have the one in Skyward Sword, that should be the first temple of time, and after that Rauru made another one? And then sent it into the sky and the people of Hyrule made yet another one? But somehow the Rauru made temple was made later then the one on the Great Plateau? Ergo I think the Past events of TOTK predate Ocerina of time and even the minish cap, and the 10.000 year ago war sealing the calamity happened even before that.

[@charlie7531]

That’s confusing

[@incognitoman3656]

The wind tribe would make a little more sense, then, but nothing in the past games has similar looks

[@thehighlandfox]

Time loops are my favourite kind of time travel plots, I think its much cooler is the events of the future are the cause of the events of the past and that it just repeats forever with no clear start or end, its way better than just traveling back in time to change the future. Its also why I like the tineline split in a different way, I like that sending link back in time had unforseen consequences for the adult timeline leading both timelines to branch off in vastly different directions, and its also cool that there is a timeline where link does fail

[@Lexyvil]

Another time loop game you should totally try if you haven't yet is Outer Wilds. That game reminded me of Majora's Mask where you use your knowledge from previous loops to progress.

[@thehighlandfox]

@@Lexyvil sounds interesting I'll look into it

[@hylian_likely]

I’ve had this thought too, and it also links(pun intended) with the logo of the game being an Outoboros. I believe the timeline has essentially been reset and will mirror the old one in a new cycle. The old one had the people of Skyloft come down from the sky to form Hyrule and now the Zonai have come from the sky instead. Both have an event called The Imprisoning War, both have their own Temple of Time and the Sages of Ocarina of Time are being reborn again. Ganondorf being reborn is essentially just the curse of Demise starting all over again as he’s more of the idea of evil and can’t truely be killed, just like all the Links and Zeldas are the idea of heroism. I think it’s a pretty smart way to continue the main theme of the series whilst not getting muddled up in the past mess of the old cycle

[@geschnitztekiste4111]

So kinda like Steel Ball Run resets the JoJo timeline? I guess that makes sense, creatively speaking for the developers, they can do some cool new stuff with that and play with expectations. I guess that also explains while Link‘s design has been changed so drastically, no longer having his green outfit and hat as his main fit

[@hylian_likely]

@@geschnitztekiste4111 yeah that’s a really good comparison where steel ball run was basically parts 1,2 and 3 retold but also changed enough that it didn’t really devalue the old universe. Jojolion was kinda the same way too where it was a grand retelling of Diamond is Unbreakable but things are very different

[@sadib100]

I only skimmed, so correct me if I'm misrepresenting anything you said. I really don't like the idea that Rauru's Hyrule is a completely separate Hyrule. It's narratively terrible to retcon BotW be set in a completely different kingdom from previous games. What's the link between the games then? Just the Master Sword? Ruto gets mentioned in BotW. It's funny how she gets remembered, but not the prophecy about the Demon King. Your Dragon Break idea combines timeline convergence with a soft reboot, which defeats the point of trying to make sense out of any of this. Your idea retcons every single game except SS, MC, and FS.

[@theendofthestart8179]

if youre going to try to make an argument, starting with "I only skimmed" is a pretty great way to make everyone not care about your opinion, but i guess at least you were honest?

[@sadib100]

@@theendofthestart8179 I later watched the rest of the video. Looks like the only parts I skipped were where he explains the timeline.

[@theendofthestart8179]

@@sadib100 thats the entire fucking video what are you on about???

[@silverdust9176]

My ears suddenly shook when you said “Dragonbreak” I love you from that moment on

[@CaptainFalchion]

Amazing video, I have been enlightened. I am a longtime fan myself but I never really bothered to try to understand the timeline until I watched this video. I was still confused at some parts (you gotta be a quantum expert to really get a grasp of this insanity 😂) but I love your explanations & theory, it has sound reasoning and some research to back it up. Time travel is so fascinating and insane to think about. Holy Hylia I love Zelda, and the types of discussions it can bring like this one

[@doctorg5056]

One thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting: Link and Zelda from Skyward Sword founded Hyrule. Rauru and Sonia from Tears of the Kingdom are the first king and queen of Hyrule. Both can have "founded" Hyrule, but "the Kingdom of Hyrule" wasn't founded until some time between Skyward Sword and The Minish Cap. It's like how Great Britain was founded until 1707, but "Great Britain" was used for centuries as the name of the island on which England, Wales, and Scotland are located.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

And I believe we don't even hear the name "Hyrule" in Skyward Sword. They just begin to populate the surface again. It would take a long time for them to truly established anything resembling a kingdom. Since Sonia and Zelda share the same powers over time, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sonia is a descendent of the first Zelda or is somehow otherwise related to that Zelda.

[@moonlitxangel5771]

But also that's a hard sell because Ganondorf appears many other times throughout history during the time period where he should be sealed beneath the castle and therefore unable to reappear like he does.

[@KevinTriforce]

No Raute and Sonia clearly refound it Ganondorf can not appear before OOT

[@moonlitxangel5771]

@@KevinTriforce He *can* he just so far hasn't. There's nothing preventing him existing prior to OoT. But we obviously can't have Ganondorf locked away under Hyrule Castle while also simultaneously existing in multiple other LoZ games which is what would be required for Rauru and Sonia to have founded Hyrule after Skyward Sword.

[@samhobbs9116]

This is a very elegant way to fit everything back together again. The bit at the end where the timelines remerge reminds me of Chainfire, a spell that rearranges the memories of people to exclude the target and restructure memories as if the target had never existed.

[@ecze-max1118]

This video is devilishly attention grabbing because although his tone is something left to be desired, his whole explanation and storytelling is absolutely amazing 👌💪👍 *10/10 would recommend*

[@CoenBijpost]

What I actually very much love is the statues of the goddess. They’re noticeably older than anything else. They are a remnant of the tens of thousands of years before the founding of the current Hyrule by King Rauru. What people tend to forget is that the word “legend” is not the same as “story”. Legends are always vague recollections passed through time by many generations. We play in these legends, but not in the actual TIME that the legend took place. Our experiences are happening according to the recollections of the legendary tales. At least that’s my theory. This creates immense freedom for Nintendo to create any kind of game they want, as it does not have to be strictly true in the strictest sense. It only has to be legendarily true. This very much allows weird time branches and “dragon breaks” as these could very well be the recollections as seen through the eyes of different cultures or traditions. We have similar historical legends that play out differently from different cultural traditions. Anyways, just my 2 cents. I really like your theory.

[@tentativegazer]

To me, the main conceit of the lore of these games is the idea of something existing for eternity, on different scales. In BotW link wakes up in a far flung future, in a world more damaged and barren than his ever was. In TotK Zelda makes the ultimate sacrifice by becoming an immortal dragon, living for hundreds of thousands of years with her whole sense of self erradicated. This philosophy is carried into the lore, albeit on a much grander scale, by exploring the eternity inherent in Demise's curse. Throughout this eternity time falls in on itself, the seperate timelines collapsing in on eachother, events repeating and perverting themselves. In BotW we see pretty clearly that all timelines are in some way canon (I have a lot more to say about TotK, if you want more elaboration on the timeline convergence stuff look it up.) In TotK we see basically a retelling of many of the significant events in zelda history, there are many parallels to Skyward Sword, beings that seem as gods descend from above and found hyrule, theres also a ton from OoT, Rauru, sage of light, builds the temple of time and gathers six other sages which include the other races of their world as well as Princess Zelda to fight Gannondorf, who is also powered up to bear a strong resemblance to Demise, and after being sealed in an imprisoning war his hatred reincarnates in a different form initiating a cycle involving him, a princess, and a hero. These games exploit our knowledge of Zelda canon to show how in the face of eternity time itself succumbs to entropy and errodes down into something nigh unrecognizable, while still retaining just enough hints scattered across its alien landscape to indicate the more familiar worlds of eons past.

[@williamreely3455]

I always thought it was in the Adult Timeline because Rito and Koroks simply don't exist in the other timelines; they only exist due to the world being flooded (Zora mutated into Rito via Valoo, Kokiri were made into Koroks by the Deku Tree so they could hover and fly and plant forests in other lands). But this also makes sense. My further headcanon is that Zonai are a technologically advanced race that chose to remain in the sky during the age of Skyward Sword, and only descended to Hyrule much much later.